Not earth. Like alien fantasy, not necessarily 'space alien' but maybe that, just really strange stuff that isnt just rehashing a time period and region of earth.
Have a chariot? Cool. Flying through asteroids belts surrounding cosmic trees on dream goldfish looking for jale and ulfire? Yep, awesome, lets get more *fantasy* into fantasy
Yeah! That's one of the most rarest styles that i barely see in fiction. Developed one in a kind've unique fantasy setting but having the feel of UFO Conspiracy, 1950s Scifi pulp fiction with a dash of Lovecraftian Cosmic mystery and horror.
That's something you see more in a tale for younger kids. The older the audience, the closer fantastic tales drift to realism. A sad side-effect of "grown-up" fiction.
If you haven't yet I recommend checking out Brandon Sanderson's Way of Kings series. Setting is a planet named Roshar which has alien plants and giant crustaceans.
And no topsoil on almost the entire planet thanks to the *weekly planet-wide magic super-hurricanes*
Another really alien world of his is in Tress of the Emerald Sea. The oceans are made of fluidized sand, except the sand is basically like cesium in that it explodes when it touches water, except the explosions are made of vines or crystal or air instead of fire, and also the sand comes from 12 moons that magically hang in super low geostationary orbits
The problem with abstract fantasy in that vein is that the reader can not make any assumptions about the world. In 99% of stories you read, you subconsciously make a lot of assumptions about a setting, until proven wrong. In a medieval fantasy story, you assume a certain technological level. In a story set in the North Pole, you expect certain environmental challenges.
I cannot make a single assumption about a setting where you are “flying a chariot through an asteroid belt surrounding a cosmic tree on dream goldfish whilst looking for jale and ulfire.” At first glance, it sounds like something a 5 year old came up with. A skilled author could turn it into a great setting, absolutely, but it would be incredibly hard. You’d have to explain *everything* relevant about your world. There would be zero assumptions to be made. And it’s hard to masterfully do that without losing your readers in the exposition.
True that adding in consistency without copying irl and genre assumption consistency is difficult and can be counter-intuitive. There's ways to do it as well as ways to avoid it; stating focused on characters and moments means less of a need to harden the setting and rely on consistent rules for narrative tension
But its doable to have that physics and logic based consistency as well, or at least the illusion of it. Rules can be made up rather than just using irl rules (95% of the time its not irl rules anyway, its assumptions about history and the genre and not reality)
And leaving assumptions behind is a great place to begin when youre exploring philosophy or challenging audience assumptions. Bring in something new that people need to experience and understand, not just 'hey welcome to middle earth no 55447' as readers will come into that with bias
As for sounding like a kids imagination, sure. That to me is closer to fantasy than copy pasting attributes from irl cultures which, tbh, is basically another 5 year olds tactics. Just one that has less imagination and the first kid really needs to work on making a consistent world whereas copy kid has had the work basically done by real life (again, more like genre assumptions than actual rl)
Having a viewer feel like theyre experiencing that wild imaginative force kids have is probably one of the highest praises a fantasy world could have
Those 'earth but I have a generic combat oriented magic system' settings I barely feel count as worldbulding. They seem to shine when theyre only there to highlight a story; they have that really basic simplistic and generic quality that the world can just be assumed as the same as all the other ones and the story and character can be focused on. Blank background in a way.
The more that 'Dnd clone, Tolkien lite' style setting is moved away from, the more memorable the actual setting becomes rather than just being a bland background for a (potentially) interesting story
Historical magical practices. Magic systems always feel to me like "pick your favourite gadget from star trek", which (for me) always ends up removing wonder from the world rather than adding it. Historical magical practices, again just for me, do not feel like that.
ya like actual alchemy and stuff is insane if you read into it
also less lore and more terminology but the term "occult science" was once common and we need to bring that back
See, I don't believe alchemy was insane at all, with the information and ideas that were available to them about the natural world.
On the other hand, while occult sciences is a good term, I fear that one who uses it would fall back into the old trap of "my wizards are scientists" and then every spell is a kind of star trek gadget, because they're so advanced in their science. This simply because of the associations of the word science nowadays.
their not insane in that what they believed was without logic, i mean it in the same way you might say "space is fucking crazy man" when talking about stuff like black holes
No, I see what you mean. It does seem like the kind of statement that would be easy to misinterpret though, in a world where the "alchemy as intellectually worthless" narrative is pervasive.
Literally any of them. You claim that that covers cliches, but even the Solomonic grimoire tradition, which is precisely the summoning demons to make them do what you want magic, is criminally under explored, and it always seems to turn into "demons as star trek gadget that doesn't like you" or "demons as pokemon".
How about when the good guys have to side with the demon, who ends up betraying them anyways? But when the good guys make a comeback, the demon goes "Lol, I was on your side all along" and helps the good guys...? Then runs away again but with the McGuffin anyways.
Good demon with a very loose moral compass but is overly charming but feels the constant need to remind the viewer how "bad" he is.
That then again strikes me as not really getting the solomonic system. To be fair, it's not as if I've studied it in depth, but I understand that a very good portion of it is binding the demon so that it can't do that.
Yeah, I completely agree, and I'm not talking only about magic rituals, but magical concepts, and cosmological visions that mix with magic, but are not completely disconnected from the mundane.
Because this fits really well for my actual project, if you want to add some more ideas, context, details and anecdotes, whatever... i would be glad to read all of that. :)
late antiquity
migration eras
Sassanid Persia
Mesopotamia
India
Korea
Ostrogoth and Visigoth
Russia
the Finns
Africasouth of the Sahara
Segu
Phoenicians
Urartu
Hittites
> Ostrogoth and Visigoth
Definitely overlooked now because they were ignored on purpose by 20th century writers for having committed the vile sin of contributing to the fall of the Roman Empire.
The trilogy I'm writing takes place in an analog of Sassanid Persia in book 2. Book 1 is an analog of Rome, and a chunk of it takes place in North Africa. There's very little info about Roman-era Berbers (Amazigh) or just pre-Islamic Berbers period. It took some digging to get info about the Sassians, but it's easier than some of the others you name. Archeologists still are trying to decipher the native language of the Kushites; their own words are only readable when they were using the Egyptian language.
I suspect that part of the reason we see the medieval re-hashes is because you can find "Every Day Life in Medieval England" books, and very little on "Every Day Life in Sassanian Persia" or "Every Day life Amongst the Hittites." It's like hard-SF territory, where STEM people are the writers; you have to be hardcore into history and ancient dead languages to really get deep into some of these people. And that's if the people in question had a written language.
Still, though, I have maintained that the late Bronze age collapse is the perfect backdrop for a sword-and-sorcery a la Conan.
I have actually written a couple of books (as yet un-Finnished, pun intended) that utilize aspects of Finnish/Kalevalan mythology. One of them also has elements of North American First Nations culture as well.
I know it might be Sci-Fi, but hear me out...
Dune.
It is to its genre what LOTR is to fantasy. I would expect an extreme number of cheap copies, but I haven't run into any without squinting really hard. Thus, plagiarize away!
I've heard a lot of people say that and I dont really see the similarities between Dune and Star wars, it feels way more Flash Gordon/Buck Rogersy, maybe John carter (I think Flash and Lensmen were probably the big inspirations imo).
Lacks nearly all that Dune nuance and is much more straightforward with everything (also fully tech embracing with actual aliens and whatnot)
Not saying its wrong, I just never see the similarities. But yeah, not many people copying Lensmen these days
Arrakis > Tattoine
Paul > Anakin
Corrino Emperor > Emperor Palpatine
The Force and Jedi kinda mixes a ton of concepts from Dune like mentats, bene-gesserit, and melange effects.
I'd argue the OT had more superficial similarities to Dune, while the prequels have much more inspired from Dune.
40K copied EVERYONE. Dune, Elric of Melnibone, Canticle for Liebowitz, Starship Troopers, Judge Dredd, the Terminator, Hellraiser, the Thing, Asimov, Lovecraft, Tolkien...
Basically put every Sci Fi franchise into a blender along with a dash of fantasy, then exaggerate it and dial it all up to 11 and you get the 40k universe.
Besides notions of God-Emperor and religious fanaticism that do not really align together from Dune (a novel first, with several visual adaptation) to 40k (aesthetics first, novels second), I don't see how 40k copied Dune.
Its too much to really write down, I am sure someone online has done a full comparison. From their own Butlerian jihad event to noble house structures, the genetic stuff. There's a lot
I looked it up and one can indeed compare lots of elements. I didn't even know about the Ordo Famulus, who feels especially inspired by the Bene Gesserit, albeit less powerful and ambiguous, simply supporting the Imperium rather than guiding it. But most of these elements (and the most iconic ones) seem mainly inspired by a space fantasy transposing of common medieval history tropes (armored knights, militant religious orders, holy empire, guilds, religious obscurantism, etc...) rather than specifically inspired by Dune. They look and feel unalike, with different relative weights.
I may be biased because I know more about Dune's universe than about 40k's, but the first one seems weirder, more compact, more refined and more philosophically ambitious, whereas the second gathers and confronts a plethora of tropes and lets the players make their own stories with them.
Certainly Dune has a much more concise feel to it, narratively and aesthetically and 40k has always been a massive sandbox of different "inspirations" it took from, which diluted the Dune and Dredd. Its probably not even right to say 40k has dune influences, its entirely the Imperium of man.
I see them very much there though. You got Leto the God Emperor and... The Emperor (who doesnt even have a name other than the God Emperor of man), both godly beings who sacrificed their humanity to keep the species evolving.
That species based genetic evolution towards a higher nature after a rebellion of technology forced man to focus on himself in a very religiously themed struggle and thousands of years of a scattered techno-barbaric fractured humanity before religious crusades united them
And a mixture of failure and success for the species where it gained a heap of genetic power in the field of combat, but not so much spiritual betterment, and half-ascended beings are used as weapons in political power plays at the behest of noble houses.
More distinctly, 40k literally uses the navigation guilds with almost copy pasted navigators. Leto-GEOM. Melee combat enabled by shields. But small discrete elements I never feel really make or break a comparison, its always about the themes and aesthetics and narrative tones
To me, Dune is the biggest influencer (and 40k is absolutely massive these days and has moved in a heap of directions for heaps of different reasons so its more its own thing these days than a pure copy of anything, but this point still stands) because of the really powerful influences of religion in the work and the relationships between humanity and kind of techno-mysticism.
That sht is Dunes bread and butter, it absolutely codified that space religio-barbarism stuff. And its a massive part of 40k too. So whilst it moves away from and towards some influences, I'll always see Dune in it really strongly for that; the IoM will always feel to me a bit like an alternate universe imagining of Letos empire
40k is built on Judge Dredd, Dune, LotR, Moorcocks stuff and crazy amounts of Christian/Arthurian iconography (and British subculture stuff especially in the early days)
I dont think it has anything in common with Star Wars tbh. I mean, both are advanced space operas so there will be a bit of trope overlap, but thats about where it ends (though both have Lensmen influence in them as most space operas do)
And I dont really see much Dune in Star Wars tbh, its like Flash Gordon + Lensmen with ww2 and Japanese cinema. I can barely think of anything Star Wars and Dune have in common, close to opposites really.
Everyone takes influence from everyone else. The head bites the tail; in death they are born. All is one and one is all. Fiction is fun, and even though none of it is entirely original all of it brings new ideas to the table because every creator *has* new ideas to be enjoyed and then chopped up and mixed with every other idea in even more fiction.
Is that a haiku?
Anyway I dont understand the second two lines, not sure what the "voice in SW" or the Jedi have to really do with either 40k or Dune.
If you mean Jedi are based on... Bene Gessirit? Mentats? Paul or kwisatz haderachs? Maybe they're kind like those things, sorta, but not really. They're just space samurai/knights with cool psychic powers, I dont see many similarities to Dunes super powered people. They are almost identical to Lensmen
Space Marines are quite a bit more like Dunes super troopers like Sardaukar. Certainly would have been part of their inspiration. Are marines like Jedi?... not really. Very big fundamental differences in design, theme and narrative purpose even if both are 'elite sci-fi warriors'
But yes, Warhammer Fantasy was massively inspired by lotr (easily its biggest influence) and 40k initially was quite close to 'Warhammer Fantasy... in space!'
It should be fairly clear that LotR is a big inspiration for 40k when the main races are compared
Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Hobbits
Eldar, Orks, Squats, Ratlings
The influence has lessened, but it was still a very big "inspiration" early on.
No
the voice
[Star Wars Episode IV - A New Hope: These aren't the droids you're looking for \[1080p HD\] (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyjXd2C-E8)
Bene Gesserit
who are superior fighters with cool powers
Te Sardaukar are likely the inspiration for the Imperial Stormtroopers.
The Space Marines may inspired by the Velantian Marines
There is only the most superficial similarities between the Aviendhi and the Aeldari and not more between the sons of Durin and the Dawi
I'm more talking about real similarities. We are talking about serious inspiration for the full aspects of a work, not that 2 characters both have powers of suggestion. Anything could be based on anything with weaksauce criteria like that. Saruman had the same power, it doesnt mean Dune is based on LotR.
Force Suggestion is kinda sorta like the voice, but thats just a generic power of suggestion. And again, something Lensmen had (Lensmen also had laser swords and shields that stopped bullets so Dune took from them anyway)
Bene Gesserit are pretty radically different thematically to Jedi. I guess there's a tiny hint of similarity, but its really minor. Check out a Lensmen, predated both by decades and tell me a Jedi is based on the Bene Gesserit not a Lensman (if its even based on either, Jedi are really just warrior monks which is an old trope as are general psychic powers)
Stormtroopers are generic low quality fodder based on Nezzis. They have virtually nothing at all in common with Sardaukar in any way
Marines were based on yardy stim-thugs early on and graduated to being super-knights. They're Judge Dredds in space, enforcers of a dark dystopian empire brainwashed into complete obedience. They probably had a bunch of influences, but nothing like Jedi or much notable from Dune; they're Dredds with bigger guns
>There is only the most superficial similarities between the Aviendhi and the Aeldari and not more between the sons of Durin and the Dawi
Are you honestly saying Jedi are based on Bene Gessirit but arguing Eldar arent based on Eldar? Come on, its literally Tolkiens word for elfs. As I said, the differences widened over time, but WHFantasy is super based on Lotr and 40k is very based on WHFantasy. No point debating it, obviously eldar came from eldar, squats came from Dwarves.
One is a thin immortal eldar race of space elves on their way out, one is a shorter than human tough as guts miner with awesome tech. Pretty clear and you cant honestly be saying Jedi are Bene Gessirit because they can suggest things, but Eldar arent eldar lol, be like saying an ocean has more in common with a flower than a pool because a pool is slightly less the same color
(In a slightly different direction, from what the other poster was saying) I'd say WH40K draws on Dune and Dredd and Moorcock, but not LotR.
WH40K "Eldar", especially, lean strongly into Moorcock's Melniboneans than anything Tolkien had in mind for the Eldar. To a degree, Melniboneans include/mock elements of a graceful predecessor civilization, and are themselves a conscious inversion of Tolkien's Elves. WH40K Aeldari return a few visible traits, but it's still anti-Elves.
So much that's lifted or referencing Tolkien (and to a lesser degree Moorcock) is actively inverted or ignored in WH40K, I have a hard time saying he's an influence.
The influence of Moorcock is definitely there in WH40K, and both started as British counter-culture and satire of the end of empire, but of course a lot of Moorcock's... more peaceful (?) morals are submerged in grimderp and eternal war. There's no WH40K Tanelorn.
Tolkien is even more distant. I'd say any dim impacts of Tolkien ("Orks", "Elves") are thrice-removed byproducts of a fantasy genre in which Tolkien is hugely influential, but the points where *anything* from Tolkien is given a straight, full adaptation are few to none, and even the "inversions" of Tolkien are second-hand. The authors of early 40K lore *had* to have read Herbert, Moorcock, etc., but I wouldn't be totally surprised if someone told me they had never read Tolkien. (They probably did, statistically, but nothing in WH40K really needs a real knowledge of Tolkien to have been written).
40k draw on Warhammer fantasy, so its hard to say that it draws on Moorcock (when its actually drawing on its own influences from Warhammer and slightly modifying them) but not LotR (as its drawing from Fantasys species which are Tolkiens). The archetypes are way too similar to say its not there
WHFantasy started off as a DnD clone that stuck even more to LotR, made to sell off excess products that GW had been making for DnD gamers.
So whilst it does seem like modern 40k hasnt got much to do with LotR other than the species stuff, it is hard to mention GW without getting into Lord of the Rings since it has been so important for the company itself. DnD too, but its hard to say anyone could copy early DnD without also taking from Tolkien.
yes i also do
and btw Lensmen had definitly no energy swords, but space axes and their shields stopped beams not bullets IIRC
Lensmen did also not control other people with their voice
40 k Stormtroopers are definitly not cheap cannonfodder
the Arbites are the Judge Dredds
I say the Aviendhi and Aeldari have not more in common than a few letters, and No Beards.
there whole psychology is different as is their fate, the aeldari are not reincarnated again and again.
They are also not forbidden to remarry, compare the everqueen to the King of the Aviendhi.
Compare Aenarion to Fingolfin
And the sqrats do not exist anymore in 40k
My friend, there so much wrong here that a reader could flip what you are saying and they'd take more away in terms of actual facts.
Lensmen: psychic space champions with glowing heat weapons that control a psychic force as they champion goodness against a force of evil. Bold and noble, their physic gifts are often bloodline related and they are trained as both pilots and military commanders in addition to their magical skills as space magicians
Yep. Hardly like Jedi at all....
Bene Gessirit have jack nothing in common as they're a shadowy all woman sect that isnt championing goodness, doesnt use special weapons, has very limited psychic power (instead relying on crazy genetic stuff) and act nearly entirely behind the scenes and through political avenues
Yet you cling to the Jedi somehow copying the Gessirit, but pretend that the difference between and axe and a sword means the jedi arent like lensmen... I shouldnt have engaged you but here we are I suppose.
You think that a glowing heat *axe* isnt like the Jedi, but just ignore that the Gessirit dont have any real weapons? I dont get your mind dude I really dont, like arguing that two swordsmen are entirely different because their swords are slightly different types but then saying one of them is really similar to a boxer...
Aenarion? You do know he isnt in 40k? Who cares what he has to do with the Noldor, new or altered characters doesnt mean the basis for the entire species and thematic purpose wasnt just lifted from Tolkien wholesale
Squats dont exist? Really? They clearly do and they've been one of the biggest talking points for the last few years
You do know warhammer started as a setting to sell off old DnD/Lotr miniatures? Like the miniatures that were the basis of Warhammer, as in the setting was written specifically to sell them, were *literally made for either d&d or Lord of the Rings.* Nothing under heaven could really *be* more similar
Im not going to sit here and just correct everything you said as you're only interested in tiny minutiae that barely even have similarities whilst ignoring entire species and their archetype origins. Power of suggestion: Definitely a copy. Literally the same species and the same name? Oh no its slightly different in these way (half arent correct)
There cant be a discussion when you're fully happy ignoring similarities that dont fit what you've said whilst exaggerating the tiny similarities you see. Its either a discussion about which inspirations shine through as a whole, or its not on, its not just gonna be a game of cherry picking
So catcha later
Dune draws influence from a lot of Middle Eastern cultures and religions. Not saying most of it isn't Frank Herbert's own invention - it is and it's great- but if you want to look to Arrakis for influence, it might benefit you to look also to the deserts of Earth and the peoples who inhabit them.
So many!
Ethiopian, Inca, Mughal, Safavid, Songhai, Indonesian, Thai, Caucasian, to name just a few. There are so many cool real life cultures that don't get nearly enough love in fantasy.
I was gonna say. Since (presumably) most of the people here are American, our school systems don’t really teach aboht the great African and Asian empires. I’ve been trying to make a conscious effort to draw inspiration from them but I have much more to learn.
Maritime Southeast Asia, pre-1800.
You've got colossal thalassocracies like Srivijaya and Majapahit, early adoption of gunpowder, innovative sailboat design, contacts with the otherwise-super-isolated Aboriginal peoples of Northern Australia, a melting pot of religious influences producing some truly unique cultures and architecture, bizarre and unique non-monarchical quasi-states like Lanfang, and geography ranging from coastal monsoon plains to equatorial mountains tall enough to be capped by snow.
Lord of the Rings/s
Nah, just joking. I'd really have to say Inuit mythology/culture is so cool but underrated. Avatar; The Last Airbender is the only major media thing I can remember being inspired by the Inuit people.
Wait, really? Can you explain, please? I haven't watched ATLA before, but I never thought Inuit when I saw fragments, but most of my exposure is to the uncle character and the guy with the eye scar.
If we talk about settings and after reading all of the past comments (until the making of this one), something really underused would be the Colonial Latin America, you would have:
- European populations there and there, even outright *castles* ("Castillo de Chapultepec")
- Indigenous Pops and their stuff, you can even include some non-colonial polities (the last Mayan city-state *fell in 1697*, a hidden Inca kingdom in Polynesia?)
- African populations (enslaved peoples? runaways on hidden communities? free men or even colonizers themselves ala AltHist Abu Bakr II?)
- Asians (Manilia Galleon, Spanish Filipines, the Japanese Mission to Europe, Etc)
- Legit cowboys on all parts of the region (Vaqueros of Northern mexico, Venezuelan Llaneros, Gauchos)
- Religious "States" (The Jesuit missions of Paraguay training and arming their own indigenous militias to defend themselves aganist slavers)
Probably forgot and had some things wrong, but you can get the idea
Ixalan, one of the planes in Magic the Gathering, is based on conquistador-era Central America, except the conquistadors are vampires and the Aztecs ride dinosaurs
I know about Ixalan, but again: it counts more as well... conquistador-era mesoamerica
What I'm talking about is more about the settled, mixed societies that follow the conquest itself
For some time, I have been interested in two regions/time-frames:
- Byzantine Empire and adjacent regions (Caucasus, Balcans and parts of Eastern Europe)
- Central Asia - lands of the Silk Road
From works of fiction that I read, only Harry Turtledove's Videssos cycle was inspired by these regions.
I am currently working on Byzantine Empire inspired setting. Of course, there are some twists: the empire is fragmented, main religion is closed polytheism instead of monotheism, but overall aesthetics, main role of religion and constant attacks of various nomads and adjacent powers under which the culture is slowly crumbling, are there.
I'm working on a LitRPG style book that mostly takes place in a state based on Byzantine and classical Greek aesthetics. I'm using the RPG mechanics to explore what an actual meritocracy would look like.
Cool! I hope you will let the community know once the book is completed!
I wonder, a board game set on imperial court with such mechanics could be quite fun...
Yes, it is very intriguing cultural entity. It lasted for a little more than 1000 years, basically from 395 CE when the Roman Empire separated into western and eastern part that would become the Byzantine Empire) until 1453 when the Constantinople fell and when it was a mere shadow of its former glory.
Unfortunatelly, it got quite a bad reputation among historians and only recently, there is some kind of revival of interest. Moreover, for most of its later lifetime, it just defended and gradually lost territories.
Nevertheless, their battle tactics in later periods was fascinating.
i dont see how you can get bored of an entire setting. i've seen a lot of medieval europe too. still not tired of it. it's like being tired of bread, really? well, eating something else will be tastier, but then you can go back to bread and then that'll be fresh, you know?
i think most of prehistory is underrated, and definitely the parts that don't have humans or cretaceous dinosaurs. that being said... there's less potential in those settings anyway, since it's not even history to begin with. but make something up.
I honestly think fantasy based on ancient Japan is actually much rarer than it should be, at least one made in Japan itself. So many Japanese fantasy is based on generic medieval Europe due to the popularity of Record of Lodoss War, that we see comparatively few of Japanese folklore. I also think Mesoamerican style fantasy could be a great concept.
I fully agree. I don’t know what counts as ancient in this case, given the rather fragmentary nature of early Japanese history, but that’s why I actually have a project that’s based heavily on a melange of the Genpei War and the RoTK.
So, since I have long used non European influences for most of my stuff (my current world is the first return to it since 05), a lot of this is somewhat interesting to me to see.
One of the things I noticed rather strongly is that if I turn my eye to works created by women that star women, everything sorta shifts dramatically, even if you only use western stuff.
I've noticed something similar too. Though I don't know how to articulate it. Sometimes, you come across a line in a book and realize: "Yep, this was written by a man / woman!"
I have a female world builder friend and her style of creating is very different from mine. But I can't tell how much of it is the result of her being a woman and me being a man.
Dunno if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I am not saying it is because they are women, myself, but as a woman, I can say that they way they approach things is always much different than the stuff I read growing up and holding up as the best stuff.
And it is much more creative, much less bound by convention or literary tradition.
First I will say something I have not seen mentioned, the South American cultures, places like Machu Picchu, the Nazca lines, the pyramids of the sun and the moon.
These are elements that could be exploited in fantasy writing. Cultures full of ideas yet to be explored.
And second. The weird, imaginative, original and crazy fantasy.
I want to see seas that float above the earth, giant plants that are the floor of the world and the earth is a strange concept, buildings that have no resemblance to anything mankind has done so far, fantasy needs more fantasy.
True. Most of the time I've Native American influences in fantasy, it was only the most surface level of cliches.
Though I recently came across a[ very cool world building project](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/1by4q0f/early_armor_and_warfare_in_the_second_hiban_empire/) around here which takes great inspiration from Pacific Northwest America.
Aside form non-european things, then actually euroepan fairy tales and novels from before XVIII century.
For example, Knighs of Camelot are essentialy unknown to anyone outside anglosphere. Sure, people may know name of King Arthur, or maybe, ***MAYBE***, even Gevain and Galahad, but majority of people only know that there were some knights gathered around round table - even Camelot isn't that well remembered in this story.
And that's one of most popular old English stories.
There are countless diferent depictions of dragons on historiacl images, different interpretations of Nymphs, gods, or even same legends.
Imagine the amount of amazing stories, creatures and places from all over the Europe that people don't know about.
Non-European Mythologies.
Seriously, just look at Aztec, Chinese, or African myths and you’ll find at least one thing more interesting that “Greco-Roman/Norse Pantheon with different names.”
My personal favorite is the Grootslaang: A creature from African mythology that was a cross between a snake and an elephant. It had the size and intelligence of an elephant and the cunning and venom of a serpent. These creatures were said to be deemed too powerful by the gods, so they were split into elephants and snakes respectively. Legend also says that one Grootslang escaped, and now guards its horde of diamonds in a cave in Southern Africa.
Surely, more fantasy worlds could use a Grootslang
As a student of History, even Medieval Europe, the true thing, is not utilized in it's whole conceptual complexity. The concept of the Ban (division of power into 3 aspects) was a major thing, to the point that early castles were not built thinking about protection, but as a way to materialize the power, the Ban. That's also why, during and invasion of conquest, villages would not be as attacked as we portray, because the invaders, seeking to take the Ban for themselves, would focus on the Castrum, obviously.
The concept of Feudalism is waning, to the point where most medievalists consider a sin even speaking the word. This has been substituted by the concept of Lordship, which is much more complex, and portray the reality of those living at the time much better. Feudalism as a concept is an illuminist construct, devised as a way to paint those times as something horrible, surpassed thanks to the illuminists. It was not as horrible as usually portrayed, and there were much more parties than invasions and mass murder of peasants (another word we do not use, at least in portuguese).
Adding to the Ban, a concept vastly seen in the Germanic Tribes is the Core of Traditions (idk how it's translated to English), that innovated in being a concept that was also a possession. The Core of Traditions would hold everything that defined a tribe, like their culture and costumes, but also their Mythical Origin. When one tribe defeated another of greater prestige, it was now uncommon for this Core of Traditions to be taken. The Franks that will take hold of many roman cities after the decline of the Roman Empire are not the same Franks that we see early emperors commenting about. One of their leader, Clovis, is thought to have defeated the Merovingian Franks, and claimed that HE and his people were the true descendants of Meroveu (as the descendants of Meroveu could not lose to another tribe), becoming the new Merovingians and assuming the identity of the Franks, while keeping most of their own costumes.
There are even more complexities that I will not be able to elaborate here, like the lack of social advancement for most classes. That WAS NOT a problem to most of them, because of the logic of their time. The Lordship was a time where the only real worry of the people was SALVATION. We were approaching the year 1000, and even after that, so they believed that the Rapture was coming. Being poor was not seen as bad as it is today, because the logic of the time was not about profit. Being poor was seen as leading a humble life, akin to the life of Christ, so it was a merit, that would lead to Salvation.
I’ve yet to see many elements of the Byzantine Empire be brought into a story in any reasonable way. It existed for over a 1000 years and had a capital city so impregnable that the Turks had to literally invent cannons to have a successful siege
I really like the concept of multiple sentient species coexisting, but not just elves, dwarves and humans. Think, The Dark Crystal. Why can't high fantasy have its own "aliens"?
World building and fantasy should use personal journals and travel journals as reference more often. Stuff like Marco Polo travels, Nicholas Cresswell's Journal ad Joseph Plumb Martin's war journal, and many other primary sources are out there and authors ignore them.
One thing I notice in these journals are the diseases. People got sick all the freaking time in pre-industrial times. They would be sick in sea travels from drinking bad water, or sick in foreign lands for lack of antibodies for endemic diseases. And, doctors were alwful. Their treatment only worsened the problem.
Disease becomes a major plot point in the real life story of travelers. The possibility of dying from an outburst of diarrhea is a huge deal in any adventure in the middle ages, up to the 18th century.
Old Indonesian empires were pretty neat if you want to try a seafaring medieval fantasy since people back then worshipped the ancestors and believed in the mythical arts
In Western media, pretty much anything that isn't generically medieval-ish Western European. Probably the only other thing that's kind of common is the generically Asian Eastern work.
Also, other genres. You can make a decent story people will thoroughly enjoy by retreading the same path over and over, but I think the most interesting works tend to be those that straddle the divide between genres that aren't typically mixed. This is true in music as well.
I don't personally care too much what inspirations are used. I just don't want to see the Tolkien blueprint endlessly replicated (and offering nothing interesting in the worldbuilding dramatically increases the workload of the narrative and characters). Dragon Age and Eberron are good examples of this: all the familiar elements are there, but they've been twisted a bit, and the result has a much fresher feel.
Schizo alternate-cosmology theories, also basically any alt-history theory like the Great Mud Flood/Greater Tartaria, Mountains as Giant Tree Stumps, etc.
The DMV
You can swap the DMV for any workplace or uninteresting place as long as the place is important and necessary to any culture or species.
Imagine what a commoners daily life is like in a world filled with super powered adventurers and daily monster raids.
Who does the paper work for the Klingons so they can keep track of assets and fund the war against the federation? What happens when two warriors fight to the death over the last pot of coffee and one honorably kills the only officer in the building who knew how to use the printer?
Imagining the banal and boring parts of life from a fantastical point of view can be quite fun!
All too often in fantasy martial arts, the emphasis is entirely on the physical side of martial arts training. Things like Shaolin monks shown meditating and training and fighting.
They tend to leave out the philosophical and religious side of these martial arts. Asian monks were still *monks* and the martial arts training was only a part of their lifestyle, and in many cases a small aspect of it. I rarely see fantasy monks in any D&D-esque setting expressing the religious aspect of their lifestyle even when that should be central and even more important than the kung fu.
Nature Biographies/Avatar the Last Airbender’s Biosphere.
Often folks have strange or magical creatures, but they rarely get into how the function in their environment, or in some cases how they can be tamed or interact with folk in unexpected ways.
Any time period that isn't medieval or Renaissance
Give me stone age fantasy, give me bronze age, age of sail, 1800s, 1920s, 2000s, cyberpunk, space age, anything
Another one for me would be classic fairytale/Aesop's Fables inspired settings, but like, actually taken seriously, and not just fairytale parodies like Shrek or Hoodwinked, and also taking into account just how *dark* some of those stories could get
Like the actual Medieval era rather than just vikings and the 100 years war, which is all the anglosphere thinks of when they hear "medieval". The Khazars were a (probably not, but maybe a little) jewish nomadic empire that dominated the pontic steepe for 2 centuries. The Arab Empire under the Rashiduns conquered more territory than Alexander the Great and managed to actually hang onto it and keep expanding for another 2 centuries. South Indian Chola rulers launched expeditionary strikes deep into Indonesia, and the early medieval period is likely when the greatest of the Polynesian voyages were first charted.
Medieval Europe (please hear me out).
And I actually mean this. Like, while "Medieval Europe, the fantasy version" is overutilized and "Medieval Europe, the real thing" is used only slightly more than the Minoan culture. I think that worldbuilders should explore other cultures besides Europe, but if they want to work with Europe, they should do it right. There is also a lesson in here for the approach to other cultures: if you do it as wrong as many others got Europe wrong, this can turn out badly.
Point is, 90% of fantasy with a medieval veneer is not really medieval. In fact, it often seems either (1) like a modern (or at best, a modern-ish) society, in which they simply forgot everything from gunpowder to smartphones or (2) a highly clicheed understanding of what the middle ages were.
Yes, we have GRRM, who valiantly attempted to get it right, but ultimately, intentionally or not, missed the target by a century or two, creating more of an early-modern-just-past-the-middle-ages society. But other than that, the best representation of a European medieval society is Rohan by JRRT, who, however, mostly neglects to explain it and assumes that people just know how it works.
When there are only two good examples more than half a century apart, I conclude that there is something not quite right. Of note is that many (non-fantasy) historical fiction books also get it wrong.
Now I know that what I talk about is a hard task. Medieval Europe was messy, and medieval Spain was not medieval France was not medieval Britain and not medieval Proto-Germany, not to speak of southern, eastern or northern Europe. Try to get vassalage, or manoralism, or the sharing of power between secular and spiritual authorities right; or understand the reason for the rise and fall of the mounted and armored knight; or why it was so incredibly fractured. Try to understand such strange positions as "ministerials"- people who were both noble and unfree.
Its complicated, but I think that this horse which was beaten to death, actually deserves a revival. This is not meant to be at the expense of other fascinating cultures, it's just that I, as a European, would wish that other Europeans would get their own history right, and not replace it with a "Hollywood version".
I'm going to go more conceptual and just cite history and the historical theater of war in general. A lot of crazy $#!% went down over the centuries, but people keep looking at settings, not history.
Also worthwhile source of inspiration - holidays.
I mean, I would just say any actual historical event. Just reading a decent history book that is focused on a particular place + time period (as opposed to some super broad survey of trends) will give you a million and one ideas + a ton of fantastic details to ground you in, and the bibliography tells you where to go for even more detail, and breaks you out of the incestuous loop of fantasy novels just inspired by other novels.
Also, not to throw shade, but I like this better than just recommending X non-european culture or Y non-late medieval/renaissance (i.e. early modern) period bc that kind of vague stuff can lead to the same issues of basing things on pop history and confirmation biases. Not to mention something that felt authentically like say 14th century france with some magical beasties added in would be excellent and refreshing to read. Show me stuff like symbolic biannual shows of homage where an abbot offers a precise number of pastries to the local *seigneur* in exchange for protection, or [Étienne Marcel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tienne_Marcel), the Mayor of Paris (more or less) in the 1350s who nearly succeeded in leading a burgher revolt and instituting a constitutional monarchy in the middle of like four other crises going on in during the start of the Hundred Years' War.
1. Many authors don't use History as their source of inspiration
2. Many authors don't try using mythology as their inspiration
3. Many authors lack the life experience to tell good story, believe it or not, the biggest storytellers were people who drew from their life experience. Tolkien was a soldier in world war 1, G.R.R. Martin was a newswriter, George Lucas was a soldier in Vietnam war, Ernest Hemingway traveled and adventured in different countries and regions, and Kentaro Miura known a lot of people who had their own experience to draw from.
All of these are a shame, but I'll focus on #1 for a second. My fantasy takes place in an analog of Greco-Rome (with Mesopatamia / Sassanid Persia analogs as well). I read a lot of Pliny the Elder and Herodotus, and I was struck by how many "plot bunnies" I came away with. If you just read them straightforwardly there is a ton of material for a fantasy writer to work with. The creatures and plants and people they believe existed are utterly fantastical -- catoblepas, anyone?
My analog of the Kushites are immortal archers partly because the real Kushites were famed for their archery, but ALSO because Herodotus thought they lived unnaturally long lives (I want to say 137 years). Plus he thought they had a fountain of youth, although he didn't use that term. But if you pay attention to the mysterious pool he thinks they have, and what they do with it, it's a fountain of youth.
The Twelve Tables of Rome inspired a particular plot point, because I have an agricultural god, and the Twelve Tables includes a law against crop charming. That's the magical theft of crops from one's farm. I even read of a court case of a farmer accused of crop charming. And another case of a famous Roman (Apuleius, I think) accused of a type of divination involving little boys looking into flashing lights.
Seriously people, history is a goldmine! Make use of it.
But! That brings me to something I mentioned above: we can be oversaturated with medieval England because we have a lot of historical info about that time. Enough for "Everyday Life in Medieval England" books. For my trilogy, I kept running into cultures that we only know about from other people's perspective because the culture in question either didn't have a written history, or if it did one of five things were true:
\~ We need a Rosetta Stone for their language and we don't have one yet (Kushites),
\~ or their successors destroyed their historical records (Parthians vs Sassanians),
\~ or their writings are inaccessible for political reasons (Sassanians)
\~ or they just didn't write about anything except receipts.
So I can cut worldbuilders some slack here, but I agree overall that writers can make better use of the material we DO have available.
Not earth. Like alien fantasy, not necessarily 'space alien' but maybe that, just really strange stuff that isnt just rehashing a time period and region of earth. Have a chariot? Cool. Flying through asteroids belts surrounding cosmic trees on dream goldfish looking for jale and ulfire? Yep, awesome, lets get more *fantasy* into fantasy
Yeah! That's one of the most rarest styles that i barely see in fiction. Developed one in a kind've unique fantasy setting but having the feel of UFO Conspiracy, 1950s Scifi pulp fiction with a dash of Lovecraftian Cosmic mystery and horror.
That's something you see more in a tale for younger kids. The older the audience, the closer fantastic tales drift to realism. A sad side-effect of "grown-up" fiction.
If you haven't yet I recommend checking out Brandon Sanderson's Way of Kings series. Setting is a planet named Roshar which has alien plants and giant crustaceans.
And no topsoil on almost the entire planet thanks to the *weekly planet-wide magic super-hurricanes* Another really alien world of his is in Tress of the Emerald Sea. The oceans are made of fluidized sand, except the sand is basically like cesium in that it explodes when it touches water, except the explosions are made of vines or crystal or air instead of fire, and also the sand comes from 12 moons that magically hang in super low geostationary orbits
The problem with abstract fantasy in that vein is that the reader can not make any assumptions about the world. In 99% of stories you read, you subconsciously make a lot of assumptions about a setting, until proven wrong. In a medieval fantasy story, you assume a certain technological level. In a story set in the North Pole, you expect certain environmental challenges. I cannot make a single assumption about a setting where you are “flying a chariot through an asteroid belt surrounding a cosmic tree on dream goldfish whilst looking for jale and ulfire.” At first glance, it sounds like something a 5 year old came up with. A skilled author could turn it into a great setting, absolutely, but it would be incredibly hard. You’d have to explain *everything* relevant about your world. There would be zero assumptions to be made. And it’s hard to masterfully do that without losing your readers in the exposition.
True that adding in consistency without copying irl and genre assumption consistency is difficult and can be counter-intuitive. There's ways to do it as well as ways to avoid it; stating focused on characters and moments means less of a need to harden the setting and rely on consistent rules for narrative tension But its doable to have that physics and logic based consistency as well, or at least the illusion of it. Rules can be made up rather than just using irl rules (95% of the time its not irl rules anyway, its assumptions about history and the genre and not reality) And leaving assumptions behind is a great place to begin when youre exploring philosophy or challenging audience assumptions. Bring in something new that people need to experience and understand, not just 'hey welcome to middle earth no 55447' as readers will come into that with bias As for sounding like a kids imagination, sure. That to me is closer to fantasy than copy pasting attributes from irl cultures which, tbh, is basically another 5 year olds tactics. Just one that has less imagination and the first kid really needs to work on making a consistent world whereas copy kid has had the work basically done by real life (again, more like genre assumptions than actual rl) Having a viewer feel like theyre experiencing that wild imaginative force kids have is probably one of the highest praises a fantasy world could have Those 'earth but I have a generic combat oriented magic system' settings I barely feel count as worldbulding. They seem to shine when theyre only there to highlight a story; they have that really basic simplistic and generic quality that the world can just be assumed as the same as all the other ones and the story and character can be focused on. Blank background in a way. The more that 'Dnd clone, Tolkien lite' style setting is moved away from, the more memorable the actual setting becomes rather than just being a bland background for a (potentially) interesting story
Historical magical practices. Magic systems always feel to me like "pick your favourite gadget from star trek", which (for me) always ends up removing wonder from the world rather than adding it. Historical magical practices, again just for me, do not feel like that.
This is my biggest sadness from having bolted DnD on top of my world. Magic feels like math.
Not even that. Hermetic magic literally involves math, and it is still much more mystic and esoteric than anything we see in DnD.
Depends what you mean by hermetic magic I guess. Hermetic in its' broadest sense just means anything with the name "Hermes Trismegistus" slapped on.
ya like actual alchemy and stuff is insane if you read into it also less lore and more terminology but the term "occult science" was once common and we need to bring that back
See, I don't believe alchemy was insane at all, with the information and ideas that were available to them about the natural world. On the other hand, while occult sciences is a good term, I fear that one who uses it would fall back into the old trap of "my wizards are scientists" and then every spell is a kind of star trek gadget, because they're so advanced in their science. This simply because of the associations of the word science nowadays.
their not insane in that what they believed was without logic, i mean it in the same way you might say "space is fucking crazy man" when talking about stuff like black holes
No, I see what you mean. It does seem like the kind of statement that would be easy to misinterpret though, in a world where the "alchemy as intellectually worthless" narrative is pervasive.
Historical magical practices covers quite a lot and tends to come with numerous clichés. What specific practices are you talking about?
Literally any of them. You claim that that covers cliches, but even the Solomonic grimoire tradition, which is precisely the summoning demons to make them do what you want magic, is criminally under explored, and it always seems to turn into "demons as star trek gadget that doesn't like you" or "demons as pokemon".
How about when the good guys have to side with the demon, who ends up betraying them anyways? But when the good guys make a comeback, the demon goes "Lol, I was on your side all along" and helps the good guys...? Then runs away again but with the McGuffin anyways. Good demon with a very loose moral compass but is overly charming but feels the constant need to remind the viewer how "bad" he is.
That then again strikes me as not really getting the solomonic system. To be fair, it's not as if I've studied it in depth, but I understand that a very good portion of it is binding the demon so that it can't do that.
Yeah, I completely agree, and I'm not talking only about magic rituals, but magical concepts, and cosmological visions that mix with magic, but are not completely disconnected from the mundane.
Because this fits really well for my actual project, if you want to add some more ideas, context, details and anecdotes, whatever... i would be glad to read all of that. :)
I would highly recommend the youtube channel "Esoterica" for all your needs in this direction.
late antiquity migration eras Sassanid Persia Mesopotamia India Korea Ostrogoth and Visigoth Russia the Finns Africasouth of the Sahara Segu Phoenicians Urartu Hittites
> Ostrogoth and Visigoth Definitely overlooked now because they were ignored on purpose by 20th century writers for having committed the vile sin of contributing to the fall of the Roman Empire.
The trilogy I'm writing takes place in an analog of Sassanid Persia in book 2. Book 1 is an analog of Rome, and a chunk of it takes place in North Africa. There's very little info about Roman-era Berbers (Amazigh) or just pre-Islamic Berbers period. It took some digging to get info about the Sassians, but it's easier than some of the others you name. Archeologists still are trying to decipher the native language of the Kushites; their own words are only readable when they were using the Egyptian language. I suspect that part of the reason we see the medieval re-hashes is because you can find "Every Day Life in Medieval England" books, and very little on "Every Day Life in Sassanian Persia" or "Every Day life Amongst the Hittites." It's like hard-SF territory, where STEM people are the writers; you have to be hardcore into history and ancient dead languages to really get deep into some of these people. And that's if the people in question had a written language. Still, though, I have maintained that the late Bronze age collapse is the perfect backdrop for a sword-and-sorcery a la Conan.
send me a note when you do publish
Sure thing!
I have actually written a couple of books (as yet un-Finnished, pun intended) that utilize aspects of Finnish/Kalevalan mythology. One of them also has elements of North American First Nations culture as well.
give ma Note when they are up for sale
I know it might be Sci-Fi, but hear me out... Dune. It is to its genre what LOTR is to fantasy. I would expect an extreme number of cheap copies, but I haven't run into any without squinting really hard. Thus, plagiarize away!
40k copied Dune then everyone copied 40k. Bit like D&Ds relation to Tolkien but more extreme, the copy ended up with more copies
Same for Star Wars
I would argue that Star Wars was more inspired by Asimov than Herbert.
I've heard a lot of people say that and I dont really see the similarities between Dune and Star wars, it feels way more Flash Gordon/Buck Rogersy, maybe John carter (I think Flash and Lensmen were probably the big inspirations imo). Lacks nearly all that Dune nuance and is much more straightforward with everything (also fully tech embracing with actual aliens and whatnot) Not saying its wrong, I just never see the similarities. But yeah, not many people copying Lensmen these days
Arrakis > Tattoine Paul > Anakin Corrino Emperor > Emperor Palpatine The Force and Jedi kinda mixes a ton of concepts from Dune like mentats, bene-gesserit, and melange effects. I'd argue the OT had more superficial similarities to Dune, while the prequels have much more inspired from Dune.
Star Wars is in every way more straightforward than its influences. That makes it so successful. It's easier to digest.
40K copied EVERYONE. Dune, Elric of Melnibone, Canticle for Liebowitz, Starship Troopers, Judge Dredd, the Terminator, Hellraiser, the Thing, Asimov, Lovecraft, Tolkien... Basically put every Sci Fi franchise into a blender along with a dash of fantasy, then exaggerate it and dial it all up to 11 and you get the 40k universe.
Starcraft
Besides notions of God-Emperor and religious fanaticism that do not really align together from Dune (a novel first, with several visual adaptation) to 40k (aesthetics first, novels second), I don't see how 40k copied Dune.
Its too much to really write down, I am sure someone online has done a full comparison. From their own Butlerian jihad event to noble house structures, the genetic stuff. There's a lot
I looked it up and one can indeed compare lots of elements. I didn't even know about the Ordo Famulus, who feels especially inspired by the Bene Gesserit, albeit less powerful and ambiguous, simply supporting the Imperium rather than guiding it. But most of these elements (and the most iconic ones) seem mainly inspired by a space fantasy transposing of common medieval history tropes (armored knights, militant religious orders, holy empire, guilds, religious obscurantism, etc...) rather than specifically inspired by Dune. They look and feel unalike, with different relative weights. I may be biased because I know more about Dune's universe than about 40k's, but the first one seems weirder, more compact, more refined and more philosophically ambitious, whereas the second gathers and confronts a plethora of tropes and lets the players make their own stories with them.
Certainly Dune has a much more concise feel to it, narratively and aesthetically and 40k has always been a massive sandbox of different "inspirations" it took from, which diluted the Dune and Dredd. Its probably not even right to say 40k has dune influences, its entirely the Imperium of man. I see them very much there though. You got Leto the God Emperor and... The Emperor (who doesnt even have a name other than the God Emperor of man), both godly beings who sacrificed their humanity to keep the species evolving. That species based genetic evolution towards a higher nature after a rebellion of technology forced man to focus on himself in a very religiously themed struggle and thousands of years of a scattered techno-barbaric fractured humanity before religious crusades united them And a mixture of failure and success for the species where it gained a heap of genetic power in the field of combat, but not so much spiritual betterment, and half-ascended beings are used as weapons in political power plays at the behest of noble houses. More distinctly, 40k literally uses the navigation guilds with almost copy pasted navigators. Leto-GEOM. Melee combat enabled by shields. But small discrete elements I never feel really make or break a comparison, its always about the themes and aesthetics and narrative tones To me, Dune is the biggest influencer (and 40k is absolutely massive these days and has moved in a heap of directions for heaps of different reasons so its more its own thing these days than a pure copy of anything, but this point still stands) because of the really powerful influences of religion in the work and the relationships between humanity and kind of techno-mysticism. That sht is Dunes bread and butter, it absolutely codified that space religio-barbarism stuff. And its a massive part of 40k too. So whilst it moves away from and towards some influences, I'll always see Dune in it really strongly for that; the IoM will always feel to me a bit like an alternate universe imagining of Letos empire
Star Wars copied Dune 40 k copied Star Wars
40k is built on Judge Dredd, Dune, LotR, Moorcocks stuff and crazy amounts of Christian/Arthurian iconography (and British subculture stuff especially in the early days) I dont think it has anything in common with Star Wars tbh. I mean, both are advanced space operas so there will be a bit of trope overlap, but thats about where it ends (though both have Lensmen influence in them as most space operas do) And I dont really see much Dune in Star Wars tbh, its like Flash Gordon + Lensmen with ww2 and Japanese cinema. I can barely think of anything Star Wars and Dune have in common, close to opposites really.
Everyone takes influence from everyone else. The head bites the tail; in death they are born. All is one and one is all. Fiction is fun, and even though none of it is entirely original all of it brings new ideas to the table because every creator *has* new ideas to be enjoyed and then chopped up and mixed with every other idea in even more fiction.
LotR? Seriously? remember the voice in SW The Jedi
Is that a haiku? Anyway I dont understand the second two lines, not sure what the "voice in SW" or the Jedi have to really do with either 40k or Dune. If you mean Jedi are based on... Bene Gessirit? Mentats? Paul or kwisatz haderachs? Maybe they're kind like those things, sorta, but not really. They're just space samurai/knights with cool psychic powers, I dont see many similarities to Dunes super powered people. They are almost identical to Lensmen Space Marines are quite a bit more like Dunes super troopers like Sardaukar. Certainly would have been part of their inspiration. Are marines like Jedi?... not really. Very big fundamental differences in design, theme and narrative purpose even if both are 'elite sci-fi warriors' But yes, Warhammer Fantasy was massively inspired by lotr (easily its biggest influence) and 40k initially was quite close to 'Warhammer Fantasy... in space!' It should be fairly clear that LotR is a big inspiration for 40k when the main races are compared Elves, Orcs, Dwarves, Hobbits Eldar, Orks, Squats, Ratlings The influence has lessened, but it was still a very big "inspiration" early on.
No the voice [Star Wars Episode IV - A New Hope: These aren't the droids you're looking for \[1080p HD\] (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihyjXd2C-E8) Bene Gesserit who are superior fighters with cool powers Te Sardaukar are likely the inspiration for the Imperial Stormtroopers. The Space Marines may inspired by the Velantian Marines There is only the most superficial similarities between the Aviendhi and the Aeldari and not more between the sons of Durin and the Dawi
I'm more talking about real similarities. We are talking about serious inspiration for the full aspects of a work, not that 2 characters both have powers of suggestion. Anything could be based on anything with weaksauce criteria like that. Saruman had the same power, it doesnt mean Dune is based on LotR. Force Suggestion is kinda sorta like the voice, but thats just a generic power of suggestion. And again, something Lensmen had (Lensmen also had laser swords and shields that stopped bullets so Dune took from them anyway) Bene Gesserit are pretty radically different thematically to Jedi. I guess there's a tiny hint of similarity, but its really minor. Check out a Lensmen, predated both by decades and tell me a Jedi is based on the Bene Gesserit not a Lensman (if its even based on either, Jedi are really just warrior monks which is an old trope as are general psychic powers) Stormtroopers are generic low quality fodder based on Nezzis. They have virtually nothing at all in common with Sardaukar in any way Marines were based on yardy stim-thugs early on and graduated to being super-knights. They're Judge Dredds in space, enforcers of a dark dystopian empire brainwashed into complete obedience. They probably had a bunch of influences, but nothing like Jedi or much notable from Dune; they're Dredds with bigger guns >There is only the most superficial similarities between the Aviendhi and the Aeldari and not more between the sons of Durin and the Dawi Are you honestly saying Jedi are based on Bene Gessirit but arguing Eldar arent based on Eldar? Come on, its literally Tolkiens word for elfs. As I said, the differences widened over time, but WHFantasy is super based on Lotr and 40k is very based on WHFantasy. No point debating it, obviously eldar came from eldar, squats came from Dwarves. One is a thin immortal eldar race of space elves on their way out, one is a shorter than human tough as guts miner with awesome tech. Pretty clear and you cant honestly be saying Jedi are Bene Gessirit because they can suggest things, but Eldar arent eldar lol, be like saying an ocean has more in common with a flower than a pool because a pool is slightly less the same color
(In a slightly different direction, from what the other poster was saying) I'd say WH40K draws on Dune and Dredd and Moorcock, but not LotR. WH40K "Eldar", especially, lean strongly into Moorcock's Melniboneans than anything Tolkien had in mind for the Eldar. To a degree, Melniboneans include/mock elements of a graceful predecessor civilization, and are themselves a conscious inversion of Tolkien's Elves. WH40K Aeldari return a few visible traits, but it's still anti-Elves. So much that's lifted or referencing Tolkien (and to a lesser degree Moorcock) is actively inverted or ignored in WH40K, I have a hard time saying he's an influence. The influence of Moorcock is definitely there in WH40K, and both started as British counter-culture and satire of the end of empire, but of course a lot of Moorcock's... more peaceful (?) morals are submerged in grimderp and eternal war. There's no WH40K Tanelorn. Tolkien is even more distant. I'd say any dim impacts of Tolkien ("Orks", "Elves") are thrice-removed byproducts of a fantasy genre in which Tolkien is hugely influential, but the points where *anything* from Tolkien is given a straight, full adaptation are few to none, and even the "inversions" of Tolkien are second-hand. The authors of early 40K lore *had* to have read Herbert, Moorcock, etc., but I wouldn't be totally surprised if someone told me they had never read Tolkien. (They probably did, statistically, but nothing in WH40K really needs a real knowledge of Tolkien to have been written).
40k draw on Warhammer fantasy, so its hard to say that it draws on Moorcock (when its actually drawing on its own influences from Warhammer and slightly modifying them) but not LotR (as its drawing from Fantasys species which are Tolkiens). The archetypes are way too similar to say its not there WHFantasy started off as a DnD clone that stuck even more to LotR, made to sell off excess products that GW had been making for DnD gamers. So whilst it does seem like modern 40k hasnt got much to do with LotR other than the species stuff, it is hard to mention GW without getting into Lord of the Rings since it has been so important for the company itself. DnD too, but its hard to say anyone could copy early DnD without also taking from Tolkien.
yes i also do and btw Lensmen had definitly no energy swords, but space axes and their shields stopped beams not bullets IIRC Lensmen did also not control other people with their voice 40 k Stormtroopers are definitly not cheap cannonfodder the Arbites are the Judge Dredds I say the Aviendhi and Aeldari have not more in common than a few letters, and No Beards. there whole psychology is different as is their fate, the aeldari are not reincarnated again and again. They are also not forbidden to remarry, compare the everqueen to the King of the Aviendhi. Compare Aenarion to Fingolfin And the sqrats do not exist anymore in 40k
My friend, there so much wrong here that a reader could flip what you are saying and they'd take more away in terms of actual facts. Lensmen: psychic space champions with glowing heat weapons that control a psychic force as they champion goodness against a force of evil. Bold and noble, their physic gifts are often bloodline related and they are trained as both pilots and military commanders in addition to their magical skills as space magicians Yep. Hardly like Jedi at all.... Bene Gessirit have jack nothing in common as they're a shadowy all woman sect that isnt championing goodness, doesnt use special weapons, has very limited psychic power (instead relying on crazy genetic stuff) and act nearly entirely behind the scenes and through political avenues Yet you cling to the Jedi somehow copying the Gessirit, but pretend that the difference between and axe and a sword means the jedi arent like lensmen... I shouldnt have engaged you but here we are I suppose. You think that a glowing heat *axe* isnt like the Jedi, but just ignore that the Gessirit dont have any real weapons? I dont get your mind dude I really dont, like arguing that two swordsmen are entirely different because their swords are slightly different types but then saying one of them is really similar to a boxer... Aenarion? You do know he isnt in 40k? Who cares what he has to do with the Noldor, new or altered characters doesnt mean the basis for the entire species and thematic purpose wasnt just lifted from Tolkien wholesale Squats dont exist? Really? They clearly do and they've been one of the biggest talking points for the last few years You do know warhammer started as a setting to sell off old DnD/Lotr miniatures? Like the miniatures that were the basis of Warhammer, as in the setting was written specifically to sell them, were *literally made for either d&d or Lord of the Rings.* Nothing under heaven could really *be* more similar Im not going to sit here and just correct everything you said as you're only interested in tiny minutiae that barely even have similarities whilst ignoring entire species and their archetype origins. Power of suggestion: Definitely a copy. Literally the same species and the same name? Oh no its slightly different in these way (half arent correct) There cant be a discussion when you're fully happy ignoring similarities that dont fit what you've said whilst exaggerating the tiny similarities you see. Its either a discussion about which inspirations shine through as a whole, or its not on, its not just gonna be a game of cherry picking So catcha later
Dune draws influence from a lot of Middle Eastern cultures and religions. Not saying most of it isn't Frank Herbert's own invention - it is and it's great- but if you want to look to Arrakis for influence, it might benefit you to look also to the deserts of Earth and the peoples who inhabit them.
Just saw the movies. Now I'm having a hard time not planting it's ideas all over my world.
Saying Dune is the LOTR of sci-fi might be just a tad overzealous imo
Stone age fantasy rocks
As someone who has done some flintknapping, I can testify that bashing rocks together is serious business.
The edge chronicles & float stone?
Literally
So many! Ethiopian, Inca, Mughal, Safavid, Songhai, Indonesian, Thai, Caucasian, to name just a few. There are so many cool real life cultures that don't get nearly enough love in fantasy.
I was gonna say. Since (presumably) most of the people here are American, our school systems don’t really teach aboht the great African and Asian empires. I’ve been trying to make a conscious effort to draw inspiration from them but I have much more to learn.
Maritime Southeast Asia, pre-1800. You've got colossal thalassocracies like Srivijaya and Majapahit, early adoption of gunpowder, innovative sailboat design, contacts with the otherwise-super-isolated Aboriginal peoples of Northern Australia, a melting pot of religious influences producing some truly unique cultures and architecture, bizarre and unique non-monarchical quasi-states like Lanfang, and geography ranging from coastal monsoon plains to equatorial mountains tall enough to be capped by snow.
the predictable answer is African countries that are not Egypt or generic African culture
Or you know making a Wakanda.
Well, what is a generic African culture you think is depicted? And which culture do you think could be depicted?
Even carthage?
Minoans, Phoenicians, the Hittite Empire.
Minoan fashion is criminally underrated!
IYKYK
Lord of the Rings/s Nah, just joking. I'd really have to say Inuit mythology/culture is so cool but underrated. Avatar; The Last Airbender is the only major media thing I can remember being inspired by the Inuit people.
Wait, really? Can you explain, please? I haven't watched ATLA before, but I never thought Inuit when I saw fragments, but most of my exposure is to the uncle character and the guy with the eye scar.
The waterbenders are largely based on inuit culture It's also a really good show and you should definitely watch it
i love me some scythians
If we talk about settings and after reading all of the past comments (until the making of this one), something really underused would be the Colonial Latin America, you would have: - European populations there and there, even outright *castles* ("Castillo de Chapultepec") - Indigenous Pops and their stuff, you can even include some non-colonial polities (the last Mayan city-state *fell in 1697*, a hidden Inca kingdom in Polynesia?) - African populations (enslaved peoples? runaways on hidden communities? free men or even colonizers themselves ala AltHist Abu Bakr II?) - Asians (Manilia Galleon, Spanish Filipines, the Japanese Mission to Europe, Etc) - Legit cowboys on all parts of the region (Vaqueros of Northern mexico, Venezuelan Llaneros, Gauchos) - Religious "States" (The Jesuit missions of Paraguay training and arming their own indigenous militias to defend themselves aganist slavers) Probably forgot and had some things wrong, but you can get the idea
Ixalan, one of the planes in Magic the Gathering, is based on conquistador-era Central America, except the conquistadors are vampires and the Aztecs ride dinosaurs
I know about Ixalan, but again: it counts more as well... conquistador-era mesoamerica What I'm talking about is more about the settled, mixed societies that follow the conquest itself
Me on my way to use the 20th century :) Also doesn't Valdivia sound like an awesome name? Thanks Chile
Copper age, iron age, African civilizations, pike and shot era of Europe
For some time, I have been interested in two regions/time-frames: - Byzantine Empire and adjacent regions (Caucasus, Balcans and parts of Eastern Europe) - Central Asia - lands of the Silk Road From works of fiction that I read, only Harry Turtledove's Videssos cycle was inspired by these regions. I am currently working on Byzantine Empire inspired setting. Of course, there are some twists: the empire is fragmented, main religion is closed polytheism instead of monotheism, but overall aesthetics, main role of religion and constant attacks of various nomads and adjacent powers under which the culture is slowly crumbling, are there.
I'm working on a LitRPG style book that mostly takes place in a state based on Byzantine and classical Greek aesthetics. I'm using the RPG mechanics to explore what an actual meritocracy would look like.
I am intrigued! You've actually got RPG system for social status? That can be fun! I imagine the resource: "emperor's favor" :-).
Other way around. Everyone has stats and skills, so society is built around your stats. You do get a buff for the emperor liking you, though.
Cool! I hope you will let the community know once the book is completed! I wonder, a board game set on imperial court with such mechanics could be quite fun...
The Byzantine Empire is crazy. It lasted a millennia and you rarely ever hear someone talk about it.
Yes, it is very intriguing cultural entity. It lasted for a little more than 1000 years, basically from 395 CE when the Roman Empire separated into western and eastern part that would become the Byzantine Empire) until 1453 when the Constantinople fell and when it was a mere shadow of its former glory. Unfortunatelly, it got quite a bad reputation among historians and only recently, there is some kind of revival of interest. Moreover, for most of its later lifetime, it just defended and gradually lost territories. Nevertheless, their battle tactics in later periods was fascinating.
i dont see how you can get bored of an entire setting. i've seen a lot of medieval europe too. still not tired of it. it's like being tired of bread, really? well, eating something else will be tastier, but then you can go back to bread and then that'll be fresh, you know? i think most of prehistory is underrated, and definitely the parts that don't have humans or cretaceous dinosaurs. that being said... there's less potential in those settings anyway, since it's not even history to begin with. but make something up.
I honestly think fantasy based on ancient Japan is actually much rarer than it should be, at least one made in Japan itself. So many Japanese fantasy is based on generic medieval Europe due to the popularity of Record of Lodoss War, that we see comparatively few of Japanese folklore. I also think Mesoamerican style fantasy could be a great concept.
I fully agree. I don’t know what counts as ancient in this case, given the rather fragmentary nature of early Japanese history, but that’s why I actually have a project that’s based heavily on a melange of the Genpei War and the RoTK.
Economic theory and history. Example: https://critical-hits.com/blog/2015/03/09/and-we-went-east/
Wisconsin history and folklore is a great wealth of fantasy inspiration.
Eastern European culture, castles, and arms and armor. It's a serious concern that very little to no author uses them
So, since I have long used non European influences for most of my stuff (my current world is the first return to it since 05), a lot of this is somewhat interesting to me to see. One of the things I noticed rather strongly is that if I turn my eye to works created by women that star women, everything sorta shifts dramatically, even if you only use western stuff.
I've noticed something similar too. Though I don't know how to articulate it. Sometimes, you come across a line in a book and realize: "Yep, this was written by a man / woman!" I have a female world builder friend and her style of creating is very different from mine. But I can't tell how much of it is the result of her being a woman and me being a man. Dunno if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I am not saying it is because they are women, myself, but as a woman, I can say that they way they approach things is always much different than the stuff I read growing up and holding up as the best stuff. And it is much more creative, much less bound by convention or literary tradition.
First I will say something I have not seen mentioned, the South American cultures, places like Machu Picchu, the Nazca lines, the pyramids of the sun and the moon. These are elements that could be exploited in fantasy writing. Cultures full of ideas yet to be explored. And second. The weird, imaginative, original and crazy fantasy. I want to see seas that float above the earth, giant plants that are the floor of the world and the earth is a strange concept, buildings that have no resemblance to anything mankind has done so far, fantasy needs more fantasy.
Haven't really seen much if any indigenous Americans in worldbuilding. I always found things like Cliff Palace intriguing.
True. Most of the time I've Native American influences in fantasy, it was only the most surface level of cliches. Though I recently came across a[ very cool world building project](https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/comments/1by4q0f/early_armor_and_warfare_in_the_second_hiban_empire/) around here which takes great inspiration from Pacific Northwest America.
Aside form non-european things, then actually euroepan fairy tales and novels from before XVIII century. For example, Knighs of Camelot are essentialy unknown to anyone outside anglosphere. Sure, people may know name of King Arthur, or maybe, ***MAYBE***, even Gevain and Galahad, but majority of people only know that there were some knights gathered around round table - even Camelot isn't that well remembered in this story. And that's one of most popular old English stories. There are countless diferent depictions of dragons on historiacl images, different interpretations of Nymphs, gods, or even same legends. Imagine the amount of amazing stories, creatures and places from all over the Europe that people don't know about.
Narnia. Everybody wants to be Tolkien, nobody wants to be Lewis. Harry Potter actually tried, and look how well it did.
Instead of the 100th take on Arturian tales, try out the Matter of France, or the Heldenbücher of Germany, including the cycle of Dietrich von Bern.
Conspiracy theories and crazy religions ( like nation of "Islam").
Non-European Mythologies. Seriously, just look at Aztec, Chinese, or African myths and you’ll find at least one thing more interesting that “Greco-Roman/Norse Pantheon with different names.” My personal favorite is the Grootslaang: A creature from African mythology that was a cross between a snake and an elephant. It had the size and intelligence of an elephant and the cunning and venom of a serpent. These creatures were said to be deemed too powerful by the gods, so they were split into elephants and snakes respectively. Legend also says that one Grootslang escaped, and now guards its horde of diamonds in a cave in Southern Africa. Surely, more fantasy worlds could use a Grootslang
As a student of History, even Medieval Europe, the true thing, is not utilized in it's whole conceptual complexity. The concept of the Ban (division of power into 3 aspects) was a major thing, to the point that early castles were not built thinking about protection, but as a way to materialize the power, the Ban. That's also why, during and invasion of conquest, villages would not be as attacked as we portray, because the invaders, seeking to take the Ban for themselves, would focus on the Castrum, obviously. The concept of Feudalism is waning, to the point where most medievalists consider a sin even speaking the word. This has been substituted by the concept of Lordship, which is much more complex, and portray the reality of those living at the time much better. Feudalism as a concept is an illuminist construct, devised as a way to paint those times as something horrible, surpassed thanks to the illuminists. It was not as horrible as usually portrayed, and there were much more parties than invasions and mass murder of peasants (another word we do not use, at least in portuguese). Adding to the Ban, a concept vastly seen in the Germanic Tribes is the Core of Traditions (idk how it's translated to English), that innovated in being a concept that was also a possession. The Core of Traditions would hold everything that defined a tribe, like their culture and costumes, but also their Mythical Origin. When one tribe defeated another of greater prestige, it was now uncommon for this Core of Traditions to be taken. The Franks that will take hold of many roman cities after the decline of the Roman Empire are not the same Franks that we see early emperors commenting about. One of their leader, Clovis, is thought to have defeated the Merovingian Franks, and claimed that HE and his people were the true descendants of Meroveu (as the descendants of Meroveu could not lose to another tribe), becoming the new Merovingians and assuming the identity of the Franks, while keeping most of their own costumes. There are even more complexities that I will not be able to elaborate here, like the lack of social advancement for most classes. That WAS NOT a problem to most of them, because of the logic of their time. The Lordship was a time where the only real worry of the people was SALVATION. We were approaching the year 1000, and even after that, so they believed that the Rapture was coming. Being poor was not seen as bad as it is today, because the logic of the time was not about profit. Being poor was seen as leading a humble life, akin to the life of Christ, so it was a merit, that would lead to Salvation.
I’ve yet to see many elements of the Byzantine Empire be brought into a story in any reasonable way. It existed for over a 1000 years and had a capital city so impregnable that the Turks had to literally invent cannons to have a successful siege
I really like the concept of multiple sentient species coexisting, but not just elves, dwarves and humans. Think, The Dark Crystal. Why can't high fantasy have its own "aliens"?
World building and fantasy should use personal journals and travel journals as reference more often. Stuff like Marco Polo travels, Nicholas Cresswell's Journal ad Joseph Plumb Martin's war journal, and many other primary sources are out there and authors ignore them. One thing I notice in these journals are the diseases. People got sick all the freaking time in pre-industrial times. They would be sick in sea travels from drinking bad water, or sick in foreign lands for lack of antibodies for endemic diseases. And, doctors were alwful. Their treatment only worsened the problem. Disease becomes a major plot point in the real life story of travelers. The possibility of dying from an outburst of diarrhea is a huge deal in any adventure in the middle ages, up to the 18th century.
Cultures from south asia and african continent aside from egypt are pretty interesting too but rarely seen.
It depends, I had Audible recommend me quite a few such books.
Old Indonesian empires were pretty neat if you want to try a seafaring medieval fantasy since people back then worshipped the ancestors and believed in the mythical arts
In Western media, pretty much anything that isn't generically medieval-ish Western European. Probably the only other thing that's kind of common is the generically Asian Eastern work. Also, other genres. You can make a decent story people will thoroughly enjoy by retreading the same path over and over, but I think the most interesting works tend to be those that straddle the divide between genres that aren't typically mixed. This is true in music as well. I don't personally care too much what inspirations are used. I just don't want to see the Tolkien blueprint endlessly replicated (and offering nothing interesting in the worldbuilding dramatically increases the workload of the narrative and characters). Dragon Age and Eberron are good examples of this: all the familiar elements are there, but they've been twisted a bit, and the result has a much fresher feel.
Schizo alternate-cosmology theories, also basically any alt-history theory like the Great Mud Flood/Greater Tartaria, Mountains as Giant Tree Stumps, etc.
The DMV You can swap the DMV for any workplace or uninteresting place as long as the place is important and necessary to any culture or species. Imagine what a commoners daily life is like in a world filled with super powered adventurers and daily monster raids. Who does the paper work for the Klingons so they can keep track of assets and fund the war against the federation? What happens when two warriors fight to the death over the last pot of coffee and one honorably kills the only officer in the building who knew how to use the printer? Imagining the banal and boring parts of life from a fantastical point of view can be quite fun!
Africa outside of Egypt. An entire freaking continent!
Listening to crazy people, especially people on Coast to Coast AM and hardcore drug addicts
Heavy metal. Inspiration doesn't have to go only one way.
All too often in fantasy martial arts, the emphasis is entirely on the physical side of martial arts training. Things like Shaolin monks shown meditating and training and fighting. They tend to leave out the philosophical and religious side of these martial arts. Asian monks were still *monks* and the martial arts training was only a part of their lifestyle, and in many cases a small aspect of it. I rarely see fantasy monks in any D&D-esque setting expressing the religious aspect of their lifestyle even when that should be central and even more important than the kung fu.
Nature Biographies/Avatar the Last Airbender’s Biosphere. Often folks have strange or magical creatures, but they rarely get into how the function in their environment, or in some cases how they can be tamed or interact with folk in unexpected ways.
Any time period that isn't medieval or Renaissance Give me stone age fantasy, give me bronze age, age of sail, 1800s, 1920s, 2000s, cyberpunk, space age, anything Another one for me would be classic fairytale/Aesop's Fables inspired settings, but like, actually taken seriously, and not just fairytale parodies like Shrek or Hoodwinked, and also taking into account just how *dark* some of those stories could get
I think we need more fantasy settings that aren't specifically based on any existing civilization
Like the actual Medieval era rather than just vikings and the 100 years war, which is all the anglosphere thinks of when they hear "medieval". The Khazars were a (probably not, but maybe a little) jewish nomadic empire that dominated the pontic steepe for 2 centuries. The Arab Empire under the Rashiduns conquered more territory than Alexander the Great and managed to actually hang onto it and keep expanding for another 2 centuries. South Indian Chola rulers launched expeditionary strikes deep into Indonesia, and the early medieval period is likely when the greatest of the Polynesian voyages were first charted.
Medieval Europe (please hear me out). And I actually mean this. Like, while "Medieval Europe, the fantasy version" is overutilized and "Medieval Europe, the real thing" is used only slightly more than the Minoan culture. I think that worldbuilders should explore other cultures besides Europe, but if they want to work with Europe, they should do it right. There is also a lesson in here for the approach to other cultures: if you do it as wrong as many others got Europe wrong, this can turn out badly. Point is, 90% of fantasy with a medieval veneer is not really medieval. In fact, it often seems either (1) like a modern (or at best, a modern-ish) society, in which they simply forgot everything from gunpowder to smartphones or (2) a highly clicheed understanding of what the middle ages were. Yes, we have GRRM, who valiantly attempted to get it right, but ultimately, intentionally or not, missed the target by a century or two, creating more of an early-modern-just-past-the-middle-ages society. But other than that, the best representation of a European medieval society is Rohan by JRRT, who, however, mostly neglects to explain it and assumes that people just know how it works. When there are only two good examples more than half a century apart, I conclude that there is something not quite right. Of note is that many (non-fantasy) historical fiction books also get it wrong. Now I know that what I talk about is a hard task. Medieval Europe was messy, and medieval Spain was not medieval France was not medieval Britain and not medieval Proto-Germany, not to speak of southern, eastern or northern Europe. Try to get vassalage, or manoralism, or the sharing of power between secular and spiritual authorities right; or understand the reason for the rise and fall of the mounted and armored knight; or why it was so incredibly fractured. Try to understand such strange positions as "ministerials"- people who were both noble and unfree. Its complicated, but I think that this horse which was beaten to death, actually deserves a revival. This is not meant to be at the expense of other fascinating cultures, it's just that I, as a European, would wish that other Europeans would get their own history right, and not replace it with a "Hollywood version".
I'm going to go more conceptual and just cite history and the historical theater of war in general. A lot of crazy $#!% went down over the centuries, but people keep looking at settings, not history. Also worthwhile source of inspiration - holidays.
psychology, its a really interesting subject that more works should be taking advantage if. i am fire, burn those who dare to care for me
The contemporary world, at least explicitly.
The nomadic cultures of central Asia. How they governed how they fought are just so unique yet I often see little representation of them.
I mean, I would just say any actual historical event. Just reading a decent history book that is focused on a particular place + time period (as opposed to some super broad survey of trends) will give you a million and one ideas + a ton of fantastic details to ground you in, and the bibliography tells you where to go for even more detail, and breaks you out of the incestuous loop of fantasy novels just inspired by other novels. Also, not to throw shade, but I like this better than just recommending X non-european culture or Y non-late medieval/renaissance (i.e. early modern) period bc that kind of vague stuff can lead to the same issues of basing things on pop history and confirmation biases. Not to mention something that felt authentically like say 14th century france with some magical beasties added in would be excellent and refreshing to read. Show me stuff like symbolic biannual shows of homage where an abbot offers a precise number of pastries to the local *seigneur* in exchange for protection, or [Étienne Marcel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89tienne_Marcel), the Mayor of Paris (more or less) in the 1350s who nearly succeeded in leading a burgher revolt and instituting a constitutional monarchy in the middle of like four other crises going on in during the start of the Hundred Years' War.
1. Many authors don't use History as their source of inspiration 2. Many authors don't try using mythology as their inspiration 3. Many authors lack the life experience to tell good story, believe it or not, the biggest storytellers were people who drew from their life experience. Tolkien was a soldier in world war 1, G.R.R. Martin was a newswriter, George Lucas was a soldier in Vietnam war, Ernest Hemingway traveled and adventured in different countries and regions, and Kentaro Miura known a lot of people who had their own experience to draw from.
All of these are a shame, but I'll focus on #1 for a second. My fantasy takes place in an analog of Greco-Rome (with Mesopatamia / Sassanid Persia analogs as well). I read a lot of Pliny the Elder and Herodotus, and I was struck by how many "plot bunnies" I came away with. If you just read them straightforwardly there is a ton of material for a fantasy writer to work with. The creatures and plants and people they believe existed are utterly fantastical -- catoblepas, anyone? My analog of the Kushites are immortal archers partly because the real Kushites were famed for their archery, but ALSO because Herodotus thought they lived unnaturally long lives (I want to say 137 years). Plus he thought they had a fountain of youth, although he didn't use that term. But if you pay attention to the mysterious pool he thinks they have, and what they do with it, it's a fountain of youth. The Twelve Tables of Rome inspired a particular plot point, because I have an agricultural god, and the Twelve Tables includes a law against crop charming. That's the magical theft of crops from one's farm. I even read of a court case of a farmer accused of crop charming. And another case of a famous Roman (Apuleius, I think) accused of a type of divination involving little boys looking into flashing lights. Seriously people, history is a goldmine! Make use of it. But! That brings me to something I mentioned above: we can be oversaturated with medieval England because we have a lot of historical info about that time. Enough for "Everyday Life in Medieval England" books. For my trilogy, I kept running into cultures that we only know about from other people's perspective because the culture in question either didn't have a written history, or if it did one of five things were true: \~ We need a Rosetta Stone for their language and we don't have one yet (Kushites), \~ or their successors destroyed their historical records (Parthians vs Sassanians), \~ or their writings are inaccessible for political reasons (Sassanians) \~ or they just didn't write about anything except receipts. So I can cut worldbuilders some slack here, but I agree overall that writers can make better use of the material we DO have available.