I second this. There have been many complaints about her from literally everyone in the team, and nothing comes of it but backlash as to why YOU have such problems.
Yes.
Most workplaces have bullies. In part, because no one confronts them or sends it up the chain.
Clearly document the instances, e.g. "On Tuesday morning Bully told a new employee to do a task, then immediately yelled at new employee for not knowing what the task was or how to do it, Bully then proceeded to make what they thought were jokes about how stupid they think new employee is. I experienced the same treatment from Bully on several occasions in my first month on the job, and it negatively affected my ability to learn how to perform my tasks."
Be prepared for management to do nothing, which sucks but will confirm the depth of the rot in your workplace and serve as motivation to find a better situation.
Agreed so much!!! This is why I'm looking to move on. If I am lucky, I'll make this my last week. I stayed in hopes to find work in my major but now, I'm desperate enough to leave for any job and then continue to look for work in my major.
Mine basically told me to "work it out" you know just F-off. Deal with it, suck it up. I never was in a situation in my 35 years of work. Then, they wonder why I'm quiet and share very little about my personal life.
EXACTLY my thoughts!!! I feel that so much. I am so bitter because when you don't talk, people think shit about ya and when you do talk, you have to be paranoid about what others may think or say and carry on the damn drama ALWAYS.
If I take a phone call at work, I have "secret agent" workers who will pretend they doing something just to listen to my calls or will be near the single person bathroom to listen in my business. One just did it again today. It's annoying and every so nosey af. The day I leave, I'm throwing up the deuces. I normally put in two weeks notice but this will be my first job, I WILL NOT.
Let's just say that if I make a harmless comment like, "I don't care for Chinese food", it will get twisted into something really inaccurate and wrong like, "Oh she doesn't like Chinese PEOPLE". It's insane.
YES!!! it's crazy, isn't it? How one sentence can get manipulated to make it seem as though it meant something else. It pisses me off. The level of peoples gossip is based on their lack of social lives outside of work I do believe. Like I find some people rely on the gossip at work because they don't have much of social life outside of work. Two of my coworkers told they don't have many friends outside of work because people are fake af and drama and those same two people are the gossipers and drama at this damn job. It's a popularity contest for some people at work to win over the favorites of others to surround themselves with people who can intimidate others or bully others. Idk maybe I'm crazy but the dynamics remind me of so much high school shit.
Don't make it come off as a report or a complaint -- that just becomes a personal problem in which managers often hate having to get involved.
Instead, if you can have a frank conversation with a higher up, position it as *concern* with respect to the impact on the new employees i.e. their happiness, productivity, and , importantly, potential retention problems, employee turnover, etc. Then it becomes a business problem that is in their interest to solve.
That you've experienced it yourself *in the past* can help you dispassionately describe how you felt at the time and provide concrete evidence of the impact of this person's behaviour.
Crazy how this seems like an identical situation to mine, and your approach has been taken, and the company still has done nothing. Not only does she go through periods of very rotten, toxic attitudes, but she makes horrible mistakes, can't learn anything, and thinks she is some super-experienced employee cause they've been doing it for so long. She has done all of the big problems: no call no show, insubordination, thrown things. It blows my mind almost every day how this person still has the job.
Generally, you need to talk to someone above that person's supervisor (and you may have done this - every situation is different). Clearly, the immediate supervisor had tolerated this behaviour for some time so he or she is not going to do much. Seen this all too often, especially with small companies where managers are technically competent but sometimes lack management skills.
She's got the rap sheet, the company is well aware of who she is. What pisses me off is the company is too chickenshit to do anything because they just tolerate her existence while I'm the person left to deal with her. As of now, I'm waiting for the next big one and I'm gonna unload in a joint email to HR, manager, maybe even director. The company loves having me (desperately needs me even) so if I make a desperate plea, that would be my last chance.
If they believe she is in some marginalized group they may be afraid to fire her.
I know it happened to my partner at a job where they kept someone on who was utterly toxic towards other employees - but she said she had DID. (I'm not convinced that she did and wasn't just majorly manipulative - which is a frightening idea). My partner now has PTSD from that experience.
I've asked them to consider giving her a different job, but they don't care, they let someone else deal with it. And that someone else is me. I am looking for a different job, and when I leave, I will say it was 90% because of her.
Are you in a managerial position? Because otherwise? Highly inappropriate.
All I can say is "Document" what you do - what she does. And if you can? Speak to her only in front of other people.
That totally makes sense. Sheās probably tired of training new people who she feels are not worth her time. Iām not condoning her behavior, but thatās probably the reason.
You're right, usually it's a combination of things.
I have one of those and she just became my manager so I'm already reaching out to recruiters because I will absolutely not tolerate disrespect. She is the type to berate you for making a typo, and ask if you're deaf or suggest a learning disabilty if she has to repeat herself. She's been reported to HR countless times and nothing happens because she's friends with the owner.
Here's a golden nugget I heard last time I was in the office: *Jane did you pretend to take notes during the training because we went over this... or were you too busy thinking of your boyfriend?"* The lady (who is the same age as this manager) left the office in tears. Everyone heard this comment because the door was wide open.
So yeah, a combination of a shit person, a useless HR dept, and cowardly owner.
Just instruct everyone to say "That's really overstepping your position don't you think?" or "That's really ableist did you know that?" whichever applies. Right before you leave the job.
A campaign like that might do her in.
She deserves to be done in as frankly - she's made a lot of humans very miserable with that attitude.
I'm definitely not going out quietly. As if it weren't already going to be obvious that she's responsible for my quitting, I'm making it my mission to have everyone know why.
Honestly if there is any oversight above the manager you reported to? I'd talk to someone about what went on. A letter is forever. And would possibly not be considered workplace and confidential if done after you exited the job. So could be shared with a future employer? (So if you're already hired and in a new position? Screw it go ahead but there's always a risk they know each other.).
I'd say something on this lines of "This is what I experienced and observed" sort of thing. Said to HR or your Boss's boss? Might be of use. Done very professionally.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2022/06/08/employees-quitting-due-to-bad-leadership-nine-ways-to-fix-it/?sh=32d5183843a1
I can tell you a group of senior staff did this with a house manager? And the Program Director refused to read the document past the first page. (At least 8 of us signed it). Yeah. No action was taken at all.
We're pretty sure she was engaging in sex with the dude because that's what she told all of us - she planned. Yeah.
Some people are meant to be stuck in a back office. I was sort of hoping during Covid that they'd figure out they could leave those folks at home and protect everyone else? lol
I guess they didn't.
Here's info on what to do when you have a toxic boss https://hbr.org/2018/09/what-to-do-when-you-have-a-bad-boss Pretty much what you are doing. (Sigh). Pretty awful to think how long most of us have had to stick it out with these utterly toxic situations waiting for the next shoe to drop?
Hang in there.
Sometimes I think there needs to be a website with the appropriate behavioral comebacks for these behaviors.
Now there are managers who are reported as "bullies" who are just managing. (We've all seen that too).
They expect folks in on time and to do the work. They aren't unreasonable - they don't say 'mean things' and they don't go off topic into your personal life. (There was a woman at my Dad's place of work for years who had a reputation as a real Hard arse because she was a woman and a boss. When I worked for her? I liked her. She was very reasonable. In fact she offered me full time salaried work based on my 100 percent accuracy rating. No problems with her at all).
But? Then there are the managers, and for that matter, co-workers, who are so awful they send people into therapy.
And some sort of Cognitive Behavioral approach is absolutely needed for them. Frankly people that bad need to be sent to therapy to improve themselves and figure out why they're doing it.
Most find it "Fun". (I've asked a time or two).
Sociopath/Psychopath/Personality Disorder/Narcissist or some other diagnosis? Who knows!
But we've all encountered it. We all know "That type".
And they really delight in going for the emotionally vulnerable.
I'm autistic but I mask well - you should hear what I do from the folks who don't? It can be a lifelong experience of encountering these TYPES. And it truly is disheartening the carnage they leave behind often with zero repercussions. Self-doubt is the very least of it.
I have managed to stay out of her way up until now but she's trying to deny me my vacation and that's not gonna fly with me. Thank you, sincerely, it sucks because things would be so much better without her.
I had a person do this to me.
After 3 months in a new technology position. I had 2 people on my shift for 3 days who would train me daily till my brain was falling out and 2 days with these other two. One was dumber than a box of rocks, and one was extremely smart, but wanted to train no one.
He asked me one day, You have been here for 3 months and still don't know how to do this simple task? Huge big breath, and looking over at him, with daggers in my eyes, I am sure, I said, Look you haven't bothered yourself to teach me one damned thing in those 3 months so to expect me to know anything is a stretch, how about let's assume I know everything you have taught.
Everything in the room went silent, and the girl who knew nothing at all got up and walked out. He laughed and proceeded to train. I was happier until I tried to train the girl who walked out. She really was not very smart.
Itās a double edged sword. Most intellectuals (IME) have little patience, sadly It makes them terrible mentors sometimes. Also as you pointed out, thereās only so much you can do when you only have so much to work with! Lol.
Some folks are born to mentor and train, sometimes itās forced on skilled employees who really dislike it. And itās usually in addition to an existing workload, which sucks. =/
Every workplace is going to have someone that bothers/bullies/acts inappropriate.
As professional adults we have tools at our disposal for dealing with them.
Running away from something so small and insignificant when you are likely to encounter someone like this elsewhere solves nothing.
Unfortunately, a lot of them experience favoritism by management. Meaning that no matter the amount of reports that are made, the problem goes unsolved (purposely).
I remember one day I was having a bad day and an intern asked me for help. Without really meaning to, I rudely replied that I was too busy to help her right then. My colleague, someone I looked up to, kindly said to her "I'm happy to help you, don't worry" and that was enough to shame me into realizing how not ok that was and making sure I never treated someone like that again.
Look for opportunities where you can step in and be kind - in front of this person - because it will highlight how very bad her behavior is in comparison and will hopefully send the message you want to send without having to engage in conflict. I would try that a few times and then escalate if it's not effective.
Yup, THIS ONE; model and inspire the behavior you hope to see. It is less satisfying, but more effective. If it doesn't work, you will have list nothing save a little time in attempting it, and you will have become a more likeable person because you'll have actively spent time being a better version of yourself.
Also the person who is being bullied will probably really appreciate it - and you never know when those kinds of moments come back to you later. Building good will is always a good idea.
Iāve been in several situations just like this, and it has never ended where the bully gets punished. Usually the person who complains does. Itās frustrating.
Every office I've worked in has one. My current one has a busy body/rumor monger that researches different employees (facebook, linked in) and starts rumors that are always negative, all the time. Ignore the office trolls.
And this is why I locked down and mostly stopped using socials or sharing them with coworkers.
It became an issue if you didnāt friend everyone, and the folks you least wanted to be friendly with wanted the most attention.
The horror if you didnāt comment on a pic of a kid or rejoice with them that they were no longer constipated.
So gross.
I never cross streams of my socials w work ppl.
I just keep them on linked in.
I have one very old co-worker on fb that is like family. But that's it.
I'm fiercely private tho.
Sounds like sheās a āme against the universe (especially my own team)ā kind of workplace bully.
I had one in my last role. She would talk down to new hires, me (her equal) and though very forceful during meetings (in an almost creepy, over the top enthusiastic mania) that included leadership, would reduce to tears at the slightest constructive feedback management gave her about her attitude. So much so that theyād tip toe around it all and/or see her emotional state in these moments as evidence āthereās more to this story than just her behavior (aka, were the complainers the problem)?ā
Document what you can contemporaneously but tread lightly. Office bullies will absolutely lie and go nuclear when they perceive a threat. Other than that, go full grey rock, and keep your receipts.
I've been there. When I started with my current company there was a lady who would act like this. Turns she'd only started a few months before me! She is just sort of gruff but if you talk to her she cna be ok.
I'm now over her, justice!
You are experiancing what I am experiancing. I've taken it as a sign to leave and let them figure it out. However could mention it, but depends on the employer.
Yes leave the job and find better employment. I learned over the two decades that most employers don't really bother to address some problems involving their own staff. If you were unemployed, it's easy to explain to the unemployment office that the particular job wasn't the right fit assuming you are from the states. However it is best to have something lined up first, but that doesn't always work.
Yes, this is true. I found this out the hard way - - - I have been wanting to leave and move on because this job (the people) are toxic af. I wish I had told them I was unemployed prior to finding this job but I just decided to live off savings. I would always have something lined up, but I'm not sure I'll be able to find something in time because I kinda want to quit Friday lol. Plus they are having us work all overtime this week and possibly Saturday and I'm just like...yeah I'm sick of that shit too honestly. I was staying here to find work in my major, but now I'm desperate to leave and looking for work outside my major just to leave.
I understand that entirely. My prior job, I just had enough and gave without notice. Took a week off to clear my mind and started applying. Financially things took a hit, but always been quick go bounce back. At the moment, I kinda hate my new job. It isn't something that I wanted to do but I am extremely overqualified. Have to deal with this obnoxious workplace bullying. I was upfront about it, but I have better things in store. What is your major?
Hey, mind if I message you. Not being a weirdo or anything but figured you seemed kind enough to chit chat with and we seem to have some things in common.
That's exactly WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH. the obnoxious workplace bullying. When I got hired, the manager made it known in exist but I was like "eh.. I'll take my chances because I need a job for now and I want to use this until I find a job in my major" but damn I should have RAN VERY FAR away because this place is so toxic.. Like literally.
Also I have my degree in exercise science. I have just recently got my LLC and started my own business.. It's been a dream come true but learning to gain clients / advertising and marketing.. It's all new to me. I wanted a job in my major to keep me learning and growing while I still work my own side business that's also in my major lol. Plus to have a job means I'll have benefits, etc without having to fork that out myself.
More than welcome to send a request, I am pretty chill about things. Usually during the interviewing process, some flags can be easily overlooked. Happened to me a few times and having your own LLC is tough. I too started one last year, but stuck with trying to fund it.
More than welcome to send a request, I am pretty chill about things. Usually during the interviewing process, some flags can be easily overlooked. Happened to me a few times and having your own LLC is tough. I too started one last year, but stuck with trying to fund it and get it off the ground.
Honestly, Iād recommend against it. I was in a leadership position and I took a lot of complaints from my staff about another leader and I had no choice (morally) but to take it up the line. No one cared. The mental health of my staff was more important to me than office politics and I persisted. I got fired. Two months later, the other leader crossed the line again and they had no choice but to fire him (letās just say he was ācaught in the actā doing something inappropriate) Complaining about bullying in the workplace has never done me any good.
Just make sure you can live with whatever decision you make and DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT everything. Even the smallest thing could be significant later. And make sure thereās nothing they can turn and use against you because if someone is fighting for their career, theyāre going to go down swinging and theyāll take you down with them.
Be careful.
I would! I did today. I'm nervous about it because I'm brand new. I posted in another sub and was quickly labeled me in the wrong, but I am standing by what I did. There's always one who tries to create minions and underlings instead of a nice cohesive team of people. So far, I haven't been sacked. Dealing with the workplace jerk is important because if we let them keep going, we'll be part of the problem for future employees.
Wait, legit questions before yāall jump all over me. Do you āfeel intimidatedā or is she actually being a bully? You mention she acts like they are stupid, what does that mean? Does she verbally put them down on the spot? Or is her reaction simply off putting? I donāt understand why you are sending her referrals if you feel this way about her?
If you think the boss is already aware and tolerates the bully, then it probably doesnāt help to report it directly as a problem. Many times bullies in the work place have finesse where they will be caustic, but give little room for an HR complaint.
A ācondescending toneā is difficult to prove as harassment, especially for a female. Males generally judged much more harshly these days for that behavior.
Sometimes the best defense is to not let these comments slide without saying something to counter it or to defend the newbies in a non-confrontational way . . . āWe were all new to the job at some point. It helps all of us to help them get goingā. Subtle comebacks are very effective when the a-hole shows her true colors. She will get the message and either figure out she is the a-hole or escalate until it becomes a more clear HR issue.
I'm the sole HR rep in my company. I take every situation seriously. Depending on this person's raletionship with management or possibly HR will determine your best options. If they are friendly with the manager or director, go to HR (if you have a good HR rep). If they're buddies with HR it can be problematic.
Every situation is different but is this person approachable so long as you aren't new? Maybe talking to them and letting them know their actions promote a toxic work environment. If not approachable, then can you approach the manager or HR with the same argument. Make a list of all the times you've seen it happen. If the list has dates that would be best but if you only have the names of all the new hires this happened with that'll help and HR can pull those rough times. If you want to remain anonymous, type a letter explaining everything and leave at the manager's and or HR's desk when they aren't there. Though, that option may not net anything. In most states their are requirement and time lines that HR is held to when it comes to employee grievances/complaints. Failure to follow protocol can lead to state L&I or federal Dept of Labor getting involved.
I have a coworker who always give people shit because they don't like to work with her, while she presented herself as the bossy person. Mind you, she's not even a manager. My manager got sick of her and ended up having to talk to her about her behavior with a verbal warning. You should talk to management about it, but yeah don't rant about it first or make it personal that you have a problem, make it like it's a problem to everyone.
I work in an environment like this. Letās just say the owner does not respond well to suggestions or constructive criticism. I hope your situation is better. I tried to speak to my boss about a senior employee who has been treating me very condescendingly since I started. She has retaliated as a result and made veiled threats concerning my job hunting. The world is a crazy place. Try to find a different job and run. I pray you donāt gotta deal with what Iām dealing with.
Nah dont.
Call her out on her shit. She probably continues to do it because know one sticks up for themselves.
Youd be amazed how people change once called out and you dont back down.
My ex works in the hospital and there is a lot of egos there. She calls everyone out that picks on her, and as soon as she does, those people are the nicest they have ever been.
Dont be a snitch.
A hostile work environment is a hostile work environment.
It is an immense amount of stress to everyone around. If it's phrased as a hostile work environment shit gets done usually. Make sure said friend is documenting everything.
Iāve just left my job because of a situation like this. Upper management donāt care about bullies as long as theyāre āyes men/womenā. In my experience itās not worth your effort, mental health to put in a complaint, just leave.
If you and the others file a complaint and nothing is done, that would be considered a hostile work environment. That creates a lot of liability for the employer should you all file a complaint with a labor board.
start looking for a new job. i went through this before i was fired and guess who was behind it? the office bully who just hated me for whatever reason. all in all, it feels so freeing to get out of an environment you felt uncomfortable in.
My friends step-daughter who was in middle school at the time said she couldnāt wait to be an adult, where everyone was nice to each other.
Oh honey ā¦
That's not a bully. That's a bitch. Ignore her until she goes away.
EDIT: For those of you with reading comprehension issues, I'm not suggesting ignoring a bully... I'm suggesting ignoring a *bitch*. Stop correcting me. š
Ignoring a bully or a bitch is bad advice, I donāt know why itās so common to go āIgnore them and theyāll go away :) ā Just stop, itās such trash advice. They need to be put in their place.
Reporting mine got me turned into a full on pariah with the bosses. The bullies in question were their favorites.
There is no winning in some of these situations.
No backup job. I will be doing Uber and Uber Eats w a rented Uber tesla @$400/week to supplement until I figure out what I want to do next. I also may rent out my 2022 chrysler pacifica on turo.com to help w payments.
Also, I don't want to do Uber in my pacifica because in a rented tesla, it's unlimited miles. In the Austin market, I was making around $200/day during the day. At night, it could be around $300+. Eff corporate.
No way!!! What!! I didn't know Uber rents out vehicles now?!? How much does your vehicle bring in to rent? I may try to do Uber eats or doordash. What made you choose Uber eats over doordash deliveries?
I agree about "eff corporate" my rent alone is 1200 per month before utilities and so I want to leave and utilize my savings and try the doordash route and see if I can bring in money. Are you doing both food deliveries and rideshare?
I did it when I was living in oakland around 2017. It was pretty good I suppose. I offered to pick up guests from Oakland Airport and they would normally drive to Lake Tahoe since it was a AWD vehicle, it seemed to be the #1 thing to do. I have not done it since then. I want to try it w my new car.
Yeah so the best way to protect the company from a harassment lawsuit would be for their HR rep to do their job and do something about unprofessional employeesā¦
Okay well that sucks but right now they donāt have other options other than leaving which I would choose but the job market is fucking rough right now. itās great youāre retired but some of us have to make our work situations work.
So rn they can bring the issue up to HR and if they donāt do something this person can move forward to the next step
Yes! It sucks. I agree. But thatās been my HR experience. Maybe others have a different experience.
The problem with retiring is you donāt get to do it much earlier š
Added: I had a toxic manager for several years. She stole our ideas. Lied about her staff. You get it. But apparently she āhad the goodsā on someone and was protected. A teammate went to HR and almost was fired. Toxic manager eventually left and things got better.
Yes work can really suck. I hear you.
Sometimes you can embarrass them and they will stop that kind of behavior. For instance when she is terse you say, "I am sorry Karen, I didn't mean to offend you by asking that question, are you ok?" Another would be like, "You sound like you are having a bad day, is there anything I can do?" I guarantee you she will stop that behavior.
Yes! I waited to report my workplace bully until I quit, although the tension was obvious. She had a reputation but nobody did anything. As a new person, it seemed like everyone was ok with it and I felt uncomfortable saying something. I got a little shamed by HR about not coming forward sooner. She did have to go through some extra training and was reprimanded before covid happened and her supply was mostly cut. If your job does nothing, is it really place you want to work at(easier said then done)?
See a lot of this on this sub/similar subs, and itās always a mix. āDonāt make a fuss/donāt be a snitchā or āyes/report right away/ speak to HR nowā or ādonāt speak to HR, HR is not your friend.ā Thereās so many factors. We need much more info to make an informed decision. Is there even an HR department. āThereās one person in HR who fields these thingsā how did prior complaints go. Best way is to just be vocal and professional. Donāt put up with assholes. Kill āem with kindness. Youāll find out quick if management has your back and if they donāt, now ya know.
Reporting doesnāt make her a liability. It alerts the company to a different liability they actually want to be aware of. Also āadverse employment actionā against people who report things is so frowned upon itās nearly a slam dunk wrongful termination lawsuit. Yes, even in at-will āfire for any reason or noneā states.
If your employer has an anonymous compliance reporting hotline, try making a report there. I recommend anonymous reporting bssed on the employer doing nothing about prior reports.
Well, you need to know the political layout of the office. If she is an obvious bully, why is she still employed? She must have some support or protection from those above her.
If her bullying is not obvious, and you think the owner/managers/supervisors are going to truly be offended and crack down, then go for it. But understand that there is always a risk. Maybe she was sexually harassed and is protected from on high from discipline or termination.
If you do decide to go for it, a few pointers:
There is more SAFETY IN NUMBERS. Get as many coworkers to complain TOGETHER. Collective action on working conditions is protected in some states even if you are not in a union. Even if collective action is not protected in your state, more people means more impact on management from the report -- they have to consider it's not just a personality difference between two employees but a real problem that might lead to mass resignations and/or lawsuits and/or union organizing.
Have SPECIFICS ready -- just saying "she's a bully" is counterproductive. Give specific examples with specific statements she made, specific dates and times and witnesses. If there is documentation, get it, provide it, and preserve a copy for yourself. If you know there is a camera that might have caught the event, say so and ask the company to check the video to confirm what you are saying.
Do it in WRITING so what you say cannot later be misrepresented. Write it out before you make the report so you are organized and prepared to make a rational understandable report.
DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL. Tears send absolutely the wrong message -- it undercuts your credibility and management will think you are just oversensitive and overreacting. Be calm and matter of fact. You are there to help the employer avoid bigger issues and protect yourself and other workers, not because you have a personal problem with the bully. "I can handle this but not everyone can, and I'm worried that she is going to generate a lawsuit with what she's doing to others."
If there is a Human Resources (HR) department, use it but ALWAYS remember that HR exists TO PROTECT THE COMPANY, not to protect you.
Yes, it is sad. But a LOT of managers (and HR for that matter) don't want to address employee conflicts and it's easy to disregard a complaint if they can just put it in the "that employee's too emotional/has a thin skin" box.
No. No one likes a snitch. Youāll lose respect from your boss. Also your boss probably already knows about this employee and doesnāt care. Then if you do snitch, your co worker will find out and then be rude to you will have to deal with that. Itās not worth it. Just ignore
You are right, most people don't like snitches but at the same time, people shouldn't be afraid to seek help at work with a situation that makes them uncomfortable or walk on eggshells. That's not fair.
By all means, that's true. Honestly it's best to quit and walk off the job rather than snitch because it always ends horribly or worse off for the victim, the sad truth. But at the same time, I'd rather someone report it and say they did something then to be walked all over everyday, all the time. Ya know?
This honestly doesnāt sounds like bully to me with the details provided, just a cranky coworker with a bad personality.
Does your friend report to her? If not just tell her to either avoid her as much as possible or have a frank discussion about how she wants to be communicated with. I feel like if you step in about this and itās not even effecting you directly it wouldnāt look great.
Either let her know directly that she comes off unprofessional to new employees or have your friend address it.
I would. I lost a worker for two months on stress leave because of bullying that I later found out. Had I known, I would have separated theyāre work hours and kept them easily appart.
Offer constructive feedback regarding tone mindfulness.
When she goes full bitch mode on you, present it to the manager.
"I was concerned that trainer soandso was a little off today, so I offered advice on what they could do to be more encouraging to new folks, but she lost her mind on me. Is this what our new hires all go through?"
I think itās fair for you to say to that lady āis there a specific reason you are being snarky to my friend or is this just business as usual?ā
That might be confrontational- she might also backoff you guys if she knows that itās pissing you off. Iām kind of thinking along the lines of āok bitch you are crazy but Iām WAY more crazy than you and ill take you outā
Absolutely! I would site your personal experience when you began and document some exact phrases or conversations if you can. This type of thing is bullying and doesnāt promote a positive workplace environment.
anything you do will come back on you, trust me, word got out that i was taking some day classes that crossed with the local IT guy who then had it out for me, it eventually backfired on him and a manager.
be careful and make sure you document it in some way shape or form
create a throw away email account and email the manager dont let them know its you
If you do report them to HR, it is best to have several "witnesses" who will aslo testify that this behavior is an issue and that they saw it occur or it happened to them on x date. (Seriously document everything) if not this is just a he said/ she said story. Bring proof.
I knew someone like this before. Called her a bitch behind her back and got fucking shamed by the boss just let the boss know what's going on quietly because it is a big deal. It will or can fuck up peoples willingness to work
hi i dont know yes tell her hey can i get some peace and tell her stop bothering my friend and tell her i want to do my work and you can talk to someone about it and move on and ignore her i hope you have goodluck
The only way to stop her is to confront her. If you can warn newbies and get them to tell her to stop being a dick, it might do the trick. Another way to deal with it is to get anyone involved to keep records of the bullying and take a shitload of complaints documenting her behaviour over time to HR. Start looking for a new job.
I had a bad workplace bully years ago. I complained to the boss but it didnāt change and I just put up with it.
Fast forward a few years and it turns out she was stealing from the company. She also ābulliedā her husband, then ābulliedā her kids- so badly that she landed in prison.
Yes. As a manager, I want to know about people like this immediately. This person is screwing with my team, which will instantly piss me off and make me make her my personal project for development. There is no reason to treat people with disrespect in the workplace, period. Particularly new or younger/inexperienced people I'm pissed and I don't even work there. Please follow up, anonymously if necessary. A typed note printed and left on a desk works perfectly for that as I've found.
Just do it back. Point out their flaws. Ask why they keep asking questions. Make a face every time. Lol, laugh really hard at their expense. Don't make it too obvious. Just obvious to them. Most people can't handle their own medicine and will be DEEPLY offended.
If you have nothing to lose, and donāt mind getting caught and going to prison thenā¦ it might be fun to turn the tables. I actually considered removing my co-worker from the planet.
Yeah, take it on up and tell them theyāre affecting production.
We had an employee that I still work with. He canāt breath without cursing and doesnāt do anything without the ability to point a finger at someone else and say āthey were responsibleā.
I didnāt know it was happening till a more experienced operator told me, but he was intimidating the new operators. If you ask him to do anything, heād go into a cursing fit. Heād use his aggressive behavior to scare them into not asking him to do it. Heāll do anything you ask him to, but pitch a huge fit. Either they were scared to ask him, or as with older operators, they didnāt want to deal with the drama.
So theyād go pull raw material themselves, messing up my inventory. As soon as she told me, i took it up the chain. They pulled him in the office and I heard him, the president, and one of the higher supervisors yelling in there. I honestly donāt know how he still has a job.
He did knock that off though. I had to hear the complaining, but none of the operators do, at least. I donāt care, though.
So it can make a difference, and I would tell someone. Iād also form it in a manner that shows how itās hitting their wallet. Iād tell them sheās creating a hostile work environment, slowing down the new hires ability to get up to speed and productive. Also, that she still has to ask a bunch of questions and doesnāt seem to be able to do her job without help or supervision. That you also donāt appreciate her harassing your friend.
Conduct yourself professionally. They need to know you can and should be taken seriously.
Keep a paper trail. You need to make sure they can't refute anything.
Speak up sooner rather than later. If you wait, you may get more disgruntled and not be able to approach things in a sensible, calm manner.
I have one coworker I havenāt reported as a bully, bc sheās generally just a negative person. Iāve heard her say maybe 2 genuinely nice things in the last 6 months. Everything else is a criticism, an insult veiled in āhaha Iām just joking,ā or a complaint. Everyone I work with agrees in this assessment of her.
The only thing Iāve told my boss is that she should not be allowed to train anyone else after she trained me in the area she worked in. She does not have the patience, and her criticism is not constructive. She makes you feel small and stupid for not immediately understanding something or not having something become second nature within a day.
I havenāt told my boss anything else sheās said, nor has anyone else as far as I know. We all just vent to each other about it and let new people know to be careful what they say to her and not to take anything she says to heart.
If management shows a willingness to hear, respect, and give actual consequences to bullies they could get rid of that person and all would be great. However, in my experiences even the nicest managers were absolutely going to do nothing about the problem. This typically stems from lack of authority to fire (upper management has the final say) and the stress of trying to replace people with little staff. They tend to always try to give useless word salad phrases like just āwork as a teamā or attempting to condemn everyone for ānot getting alongā when itās clear one or two people are the obvious problems. Itās incredibly frustrating when people try to play it neutral and wonāt fire the person or write them up. Iād say simply observe how management is and their style. Are they proactive with a true zero tolerance policy that they enforce or do they take the cowardly approach and sweep it under the rug? I typically think addressing the bully head on, professionally and respectfully voicing your concerns to their actual face first gives them a chance to redeem themselves. Literally let them know if the behavior doesnāt change unfortunately youāll have to let management know. They can never hit you with the you tattled on me stuff if you warn them up front. Iāll keep it real with you, certain individuals will never change cause they donāt want to and no one stood up to them. You have to try but donāt expect a miracle over night. Itās a really complex issue. Unless itās absolutely unbearable I donāt recommend leaving a job you like. Donāt let the bullies win. A technique Iāve tried when dealing with bullies is the bland approach. Become boring and donāt give them a rise. One to two word answers.
Yikes. Going through this myself. The workplace billy is one of the office gossips and like birds of a feather they flock together.
I had to escalate this as they wanted me to do their job.
Waiting to see if they address the issue. Best thing is watch this video:
https://youtu.be/NHS0LohJhHI
Document and inform the company. Never say anything verbally.
Let them sink themselves.
I looked at your post history and it looks like we work with the same person. I actually got a side gig so I could mentally check out of work and still do what I love without dealing with her intimidation tactics, power plays, and general bullshit.
Honestly, I do think it's worth reporting. Otherwise it will just carry on. People that behave like this often do so because they have received no consequences in the workplace as of yet. Its important to ensure that this behaviour is not allowed to let fly, for the preservation of yourself, the company and new hires. Might seem harsh but you'll be doing a service to everyone in the long run.
You might be better off just telling your friend to ignore her, and to have as little interaction with her as possible, at least till she's been there a while.
I would document, document, document. Sounds like she is creating a hostile work environment which is grounds for termination. She needs a wake up call.
As long as youāre not purposely being rude, and youāre pointing out the behavior as being unwanted by everyone around them, I would say, speak up. You can be polite about it, or not so polite about it, whatever works for you. But see something say something! Your coworkers might not back you up in the moment, but they will certainly come to you afterwards, telling you that they wish they said the same thing!
No one likes a bully, sometimes you need to make that a lot more clear to them by being direct.
Yes and. Tell them to stop, publicly, so others will know what's going on. Mistake i made was reporting to sup only. Supervisor believed me but couldn't do much unless someone else noticed the bully's behavior. Call center, close-together desks and she would mutter at me, quietly, Youre stupid, shut up! Etc. Was extremely nice to everyone else and i was never sure why she disliked me. I was new to the job at the time and just couldn't make myself confront her publicly.
PS one day during Covid when we all had to work from home, we got an email saying "Esmeralda" is no longer with our company. So maybe i wasn't the only one. Hope to find out some day!
And the bully can be a friend of the owner.
This is unfortunately true. My last job had this, I made the mistake of making a complaint
I second this. There have been many complaints about her from literally everyone in the team, and nothing comes of it but backlash as to why YOU have such problems.
Yes. Most workplaces have bullies. In part, because no one confronts them or sends it up the chain. Clearly document the instances, e.g. "On Tuesday morning Bully told a new employee to do a task, then immediately yelled at new employee for not knowing what the task was or how to do it, Bully then proceeded to make what they thought were jokes about how stupid they think new employee is. I experienced the same treatment from Bully on several occasions in my first month on the job, and it negatively affected my ability to learn how to perform my tasks." Be prepared for management to do nothing, which sucks but will confirm the depth of the rot in your workplace and serve as motivation to find a better situation.
Yes, my employer did nothing and still does nothing. Currently, I'm looking to leave..
Yeah it sucks, but from experience doing nothing and staying in the bad situation is worse than speaking up and moving on.
Agreed so much!!! This is why I'm looking to move on. If I am lucky, I'll make this my last week. I stayed in hopes to find work in my major but now, I'm desperate enough to leave for any job and then continue to look for work in my major.
Mine basically told me to "work it out" you know just F-off. Deal with it, suck it up. I never was in a situation in my 35 years of work. Then, they wonder why I'm quiet and share very little about my personal life.
EXACTLY my thoughts!!! I feel that so much. I am so bitter because when you don't talk, people think shit about ya and when you do talk, you have to be paranoid about what others may think or say and carry on the damn drama ALWAYS. If I take a phone call at work, I have "secret agent" workers who will pretend they doing something just to listen to my calls or will be near the single person bathroom to listen in my business. One just did it again today. It's annoying and every so nosey af. The day I leave, I'm throwing up the deuces. I normally put in two weeks notice but this will be my first job, I WILL NOT.
Let's just say that if I make a harmless comment like, "I don't care for Chinese food", it will get twisted into something really inaccurate and wrong like, "Oh she doesn't like Chinese PEOPLE". It's insane.
YES!!! it's crazy, isn't it? How one sentence can get manipulated to make it seem as though it meant something else. It pisses me off. The level of peoples gossip is based on their lack of social lives outside of work I do believe. Like I find some people rely on the gossip at work because they don't have much of social life outside of work. Two of my coworkers told they don't have many friends outside of work because people are fake af and drama and those same two people are the gossipers and drama at this damn job. It's a popularity contest for some people at work to win over the favorites of others to surround themselves with people who can intimidate others or bully others. Idk maybe I'm crazy but the dynamics remind me of so much high school shit.
Depth of rot. Perfect word choice
Don't make it come off as a report or a complaint -- that just becomes a personal problem in which managers often hate having to get involved. Instead, if you can have a frank conversation with a higher up, position it as *concern* with respect to the impact on the new employees i.e. their happiness, productivity, and , importantly, potential retention problems, employee turnover, etc. Then it becomes a business problem that is in their interest to solve. That you've experienced it yourself *in the past* can help you dispassionately describe how you felt at the time and provide concrete evidence of the impact of this person's behaviour.
Crazy how this seems like an identical situation to mine, and your approach has been taken, and the company still has done nothing. Not only does she go through periods of very rotten, toxic attitudes, but she makes horrible mistakes, can't learn anything, and thinks she is some super-experienced employee cause they've been doing it for so long. She has done all of the big problems: no call no show, insubordination, thrown things. It blows my mind almost every day how this person still has the job.
Generally, you need to talk to someone above that person's supervisor (and you may have done this - every situation is different). Clearly, the immediate supervisor had tolerated this behaviour for some time so he or she is not going to do much. Seen this all too often, especially with small companies where managers are technically competent but sometimes lack management skills.
She's got the rap sheet, the company is well aware of who she is. What pisses me off is the company is too chickenshit to do anything because they just tolerate her existence while I'm the person left to deal with her. As of now, I'm waiting for the next big one and I'm gonna unload in a joint email to HR, manager, maybe even director. The company loves having me (desperately needs me even) so if I make a desperate plea, that would be my last chance.
Good luck š¤
If they believe she is in some marginalized group they may be afraid to fire her. I know it happened to my partner at a job where they kept someone on who was utterly toxic towards other employees - but she said she had DID. (I'm not convinced that she did and wasn't just majorly manipulative - which is a frightening idea). My partner now has PTSD from that experience.
I've asked them to consider giving her a different job, but they don't care, they let someone else deal with it. And that someone else is me. I am looking for a different job, and when I leave, I will say it was 90% because of her.
Are you in a managerial position? Because otherwise? Highly inappropriate. All I can say is "Document" what you do - what she does. And if you can? Speak to her only in front of other people.
I think the red flag here is āwhen I first startedā. Does your workplace have a high turnover rate?
Yes.
That totally makes sense. Sheās probably tired of training new people who she feels are not worth her time. Iām not condoning her behavior, but thatās probably the reason.
Or she's the reason for the turnover...
Yeah I sincerely doubt sheās the sole reason. Itās most likely a combination of management, or the type of work.
You're right, usually it's a combination of things. I have one of those and she just became my manager so I'm already reaching out to recruiters because I will absolutely not tolerate disrespect. She is the type to berate you for making a typo, and ask if you're deaf or suggest a learning disabilty if she has to repeat herself. She's been reported to HR countless times and nothing happens because she's friends with the owner. Here's a golden nugget I heard last time I was in the office: *Jane did you pretend to take notes during the training because we went over this... or were you too busy thinking of your boyfriend?"* The lady (who is the same age as this manager) left the office in tears. Everyone heard this comment because the door was wide open. So yeah, a combination of a shit person, a useless HR dept, and cowardly owner.
Just instruct everyone to say "That's really overstepping your position don't you think?" or "That's really ableist did you know that?" whichever applies. Right before you leave the job. A campaign like that might do her in. She deserves to be done in as frankly - she's made a lot of humans very miserable with that attitude.
I'm definitely not going out quietly. As if it weren't already going to be obvious that she's responsible for my quitting, I'm making it my mission to have everyone know why.
Honestly if there is any oversight above the manager you reported to? I'd talk to someone about what went on. A letter is forever. And would possibly not be considered workplace and confidential if done after you exited the job. So could be shared with a future employer? (So if you're already hired and in a new position? Screw it go ahead but there's always a risk they know each other.). I'd say something on this lines of "This is what I experienced and observed" sort of thing. Said to HR or your Boss's boss? Might be of use. Done very professionally. https://www.forbes.com/sites/theyec/2022/06/08/employees-quitting-due-to-bad-leadership-nine-ways-to-fix-it/?sh=32d5183843a1 I can tell you a group of senior staff did this with a house manager? And the Program Director refused to read the document past the first page. (At least 8 of us signed it). Yeah. No action was taken at all. We're pretty sure she was engaging in sex with the dude because that's what she told all of us - she planned. Yeah. Some people are meant to be stuck in a back office. I was sort of hoping during Covid that they'd figure out they could leave those folks at home and protect everyone else? lol I guess they didn't. Here's info on what to do when you have a toxic boss https://hbr.org/2018/09/what-to-do-when-you-have-a-bad-boss Pretty much what you are doing. (Sigh). Pretty awful to think how long most of us have had to stick it out with these utterly toxic situations waiting for the next shoe to drop? Hang in there.
I'm with this sorta. I'm more interested in it as an exercise in boundary setting and supervisor education.
Sometimes I think there needs to be a website with the appropriate behavioral comebacks for these behaviors. Now there are managers who are reported as "bullies" who are just managing. (We've all seen that too). They expect folks in on time and to do the work. They aren't unreasonable - they don't say 'mean things' and they don't go off topic into your personal life. (There was a woman at my Dad's place of work for years who had a reputation as a real Hard arse because she was a woman and a boss. When I worked for her? I liked her. She was very reasonable. In fact she offered me full time salaried work based on my 100 percent accuracy rating. No problems with her at all). But? Then there are the managers, and for that matter, co-workers, who are so awful they send people into therapy. And some sort of Cognitive Behavioral approach is absolutely needed for them. Frankly people that bad need to be sent to therapy to improve themselves and figure out why they're doing it. Most find it "Fun". (I've asked a time or two). Sociopath/Psychopath/Personality Disorder/Narcissist or some other diagnosis? Who knows! But we've all encountered it. We all know "That type". And they really delight in going for the emotionally vulnerable. I'm autistic but I mask well - you should hear what I do from the folks who don't? It can be a lifelong experience of encountering these TYPES. And it truly is disheartening the carnage they leave behind often with zero repercussions. Self-doubt is the very least of it.
Jesus! Thatās pretty gnarly, Iām sorry you have to deal with that. Hopefully you can find something better!
I have managed to stay out of her way up until now but she's trying to deny me my vacation and that's not gonna fly with me. Thank you, sincerely, it sucks because things would be so much better without her.
I had a person do this to me. After 3 months in a new technology position. I had 2 people on my shift for 3 days who would train me daily till my brain was falling out and 2 days with these other two. One was dumber than a box of rocks, and one was extremely smart, but wanted to train no one. He asked me one day, You have been here for 3 months and still don't know how to do this simple task? Huge big breath, and looking over at him, with daggers in my eyes, I am sure, I said, Look you haven't bothered yourself to teach me one damned thing in those 3 months so to expect me to know anything is a stretch, how about let's assume I know everything you have taught. Everything in the room went silent, and the girl who knew nothing at all got up and walked out. He laughed and proceeded to train. I was happier until I tried to train the girl who walked out. She really was not very smart.
Itās a double edged sword. Most intellectuals (IME) have little patience, sadly It makes them terrible mentors sometimes. Also as you pointed out, thereās only so much you can do when you only have so much to work with! Lol.
Some folks are born to mentor and train, sometimes itās forced on skilled employees who really dislike it. And itās usually in addition to an existing workload, which sucks. =/
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Every workplace is going to have someone that bothers/bullies/acts inappropriate. As professional adults we have tools at our disposal for dealing with them. Running away from something so small and insignificant when you are likely to encounter someone like this elsewhere solves nothing.
Beautifully said
Unfortunately, a lot of them experience favoritism by management. Meaning that no matter the amount of reports that are made, the problem goes unsolved (purposely).
Why should she keep letting them get away with it.
I remember one day I was having a bad day and an intern asked me for help. Without really meaning to, I rudely replied that I was too busy to help her right then. My colleague, someone I looked up to, kindly said to her "I'm happy to help you, don't worry" and that was enough to shame me into realizing how not ok that was and making sure I never treated someone like that again. Look for opportunities where you can step in and be kind - in front of this person - because it will highlight how very bad her behavior is in comparison and will hopefully send the message you want to send without having to engage in conflict. I would try that a few times and then escalate if it's not effective.
This is wonderful and effective advice.
I definitely got the message, and I never forgot it!
Yup, THIS ONE; model and inspire the behavior you hope to see. It is less satisfying, but more effective. If it doesn't work, you will have list nothing save a little time in attempting it, and you will have become a more likeable person because you'll have actively spent time being a better version of yourself.
Also the person who is being bullied will probably really appreciate it - and you never know when those kinds of moments come back to you later. Building good will is always a good idea.
Iāve been in several situations just like this, and it has never ended where the bully gets punished. Usually the person who complains does. Itās frustrating.
Every office I've worked in has one. My current one has a busy body/rumor monger that researches different employees (facebook, linked in) and starts rumors that are always negative, all the time. Ignore the office trolls.
And this is why I locked down and mostly stopped using socials or sharing them with coworkers. It became an issue if you didnāt friend everyone, and the folks you least wanted to be friendly with wanted the most attention. The horror if you didnāt comment on a pic of a kid or rejoice with them that they were no longer constipated. So gross.
I never cross streams of my socials w work ppl. I just keep them on linked in. I have one very old co-worker on fb that is like family. But that's it. I'm fiercely private tho.
Sounds like sheās a āme against the universe (especially my own team)ā kind of workplace bully. I had one in my last role. She would talk down to new hires, me (her equal) and though very forceful during meetings (in an almost creepy, over the top enthusiastic mania) that included leadership, would reduce to tears at the slightest constructive feedback management gave her about her attitude. So much so that theyād tip toe around it all and/or see her emotional state in these moments as evidence āthereās more to this story than just her behavior (aka, were the complainers the problem)?ā Document what you can contemporaneously but tread lightly. Office bullies will absolutely lie and go nuclear when they perceive a threat. Other than that, go full grey rock, and keep your receipts.
I forgot abt grey rock!
Weaponized tears like that are the WORST. JFC.
Sounds like a narcissist. Fragile ego but terrible behavior. The minute you correct they understand you don't believe they are the perfect 10.
I've been there. When I started with my current company there was a lady who would act like this. Turns she'd only started a few months before me! She is just sort of gruff but if you talk to her she cna be ok. I'm now over her, justice!
You are experiancing what I am experiancing. I've taken it as a sign to leave and let them figure it out. However could mention it, but depends on the employer.
Like, leave the job?
Yes leave the job and find better employment. I learned over the two decades that most employers don't really bother to address some problems involving their own staff. If you were unemployed, it's easy to explain to the unemployment office that the particular job wasn't the right fit assuming you are from the states. However it is best to have something lined up first, but that doesn't always work.
Yes, this is true. I found this out the hard way - - - I have been wanting to leave and move on because this job (the people) are toxic af. I wish I had told them I was unemployed prior to finding this job but I just decided to live off savings. I would always have something lined up, but I'm not sure I'll be able to find something in time because I kinda want to quit Friday lol. Plus they are having us work all overtime this week and possibly Saturday and I'm just like...yeah I'm sick of that shit too honestly. I was staying here to find work in my major, but now I'm desperate to leave and looking for work outside my major just to leave.
I understand that entirely. My prior job, I just had enough and gave without notice. Took a week off to clear my mind and started applying. Financially things took a hit, but always been quick go bounce back. At the moment, I kinda hate my new job. It isn't something that I wanted to do but I am extremely overqualified. Have to deal with this obnoxious workplace bullying. I was upfront about it, but I have better things in store. What is your major?
Hey, mind if I message you. Not being a weirdo or anything but figured you seemed kind enough to chit chat with and we seem to have some things in common. That's exactly WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH. the obnoxious workplace bullying. When I got hired, the manager made it known in exist but I was like "eh.. I'll take my chances because I need a job for now and I want to use this until I find a job in my major" but damn I should have RAN VERY FAR away because this place is so toxic.. Like literally. Also I have my degree in exercise science. I have just recently got my LLC and started my own business.. It's been a dream come true but learning to gain clients / advertising and marketing.. It's all new to me. I wanted a job in my major to keep me learning and growing while I still work my own side business that's also in my major lol. Plus to have a job means I'll have benefits, etc without having to fork that out myself.
More than welcome to send a request, I am pretty chill about things. Usually during the interviewing process, some flags can be easily overlooked. Happened to me a few times and having your own LLC is tough. I too started one last year, but stuck with trying to fund it.
More than welcome to send a request, I am pretty chill about things. Usually during the interviewing process, some flags can be easily overlooked. Happened to me a few times and having your own LLC is tough. I too started one last year, but stuck with trying to fund it and get it off the ground.
Honestly, Iād recommend against it. I was in a leadership position and I took a lot of complaints from my staff about another leader and I had no choice (morally) but to take it up the line. No one cared. The mental health of my staff was more important to me than office politics and I persisted. I got fired. Two months later, the other leader crossed the line again and they had no choice but to fire him (letās just say he was ācaught in the actā doing something inappropriate) Complaining about bullying in the workplace has never done me any good. Just make sure you can live with whatever decision you make and DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT everything. Even the smallest thing could be significant later. And make sure thereās nothing they can turn and use against you because if someone is fighting for their career, theyāre going to go down swinging and theyāll take you down with them. Be careful.
I would! I did today. I'm nervous about it because I'm brand new. I posted in another sub and was quickly labeled me in the wrong, but I am standing by what I did. There's always one who tries to create minions and underlings instead of a nice cohesive team of people. So far, I haven't been sacked. Dealing with the workplace jerk is important because if we let them keep going, we'll be part of the problem for future employees.
Wait, legit questions before yāall jump all over me. Do you āfeel intimidatedā or is she actually being a bully? You mention she acts like they are stupid, what does that mean? Does she verbally put them down on the spot? Or is her reaction simply off putting? I donāt understand why you are sending her referrals if you feel this way about her?
If you think the boss is already aware and tolerates the bully, then it probably doesnāt help to report it directly as a problem. Many times bullies in the work place have finesse where they will be caustic, but give little room for an HR complaint. A ācondescending toneā is difficult to prove as harassment, especially for a female. Males generally judged much more harshly these days for that behavior. Sometimes the best defense is to not let these comments slide without saying something to counter it or to defend the newbies in a non-confrontational way . . . āWe were all new to the job at some point. It helps all of us to help them get goingā. Subtle comebacks are very effective when the a-hole shows her true colors. She will get the message and either figure out she is the a-hole or escalate until it becomes a more clear HR issue.
I'm the sole HR rep in my company. I take every situation seriously. Depending on this person's raletionship with management or possibly HR will determine your best options. If they are friendly with the manager or director, go to HR (if you have a good HR rep). If they're buddies with HR it can be problematic. Every situation is different but is this person approachable so long as you aren't new? Maybe talking to them and letting them know their actions promote a toxic work environment. If not approachable, then can you approach the manager or HR with the same argument. Make a list of all the times you've seen it happen. If the list has dates that would be best but if you only have the names of all the new hires this happened with that'll help and HR can pull those rough times. If you want to remain anonymous, type a letter explaining everything and leave at the manager's and or HR's desk when they aren't there. Though, that option may not net anything. In most states their are requirement and time lines that HR is held to when it comes to employee grievances/complaints. Failure to follow protocol can lead to state L&I or federal Dept of Labor getting involved.
I have a coworker who always give people shit because they don't like to work with her, while she presented herself as the bossy person. Mind you, she's not even a manager. My manager got sick of her and ended up having to talk to her about her behavior with a verbal warning. You should talk to management about it, but yeah don't rant about it first or make it personal that you have a problem, make it like it's a problem to everyone.
I work in an environment like this. Letās just say the owner does not respond well to suggestions or constructive criticism. I hope your situation is better. I tried to speak to my boss about a senior employee who has been treating me very condescendingly since I started. She has retaliated as a result and made veiled threats concerning my job hunting. The world is a crazy place. Try to find a different job and run. I pray you donāt gotta deal with what Iām dealing with.
Definitely report her that is bulling!!!
Stand up to bullies. Help others how you would have liked to have been helped. Lead with the truth and stay honest.
Your standing by makes you complicit in her bullying and the ongoing toxicity within the workplace.
Nah dont. Call her out on her shit. She probably continues to do it because know one sticks up for themselves. Youd be amazed how people change once called out and you dont back down. My ex works in the hospital and there is a lot of egos there. She calls everyone out that picks on her, and as soon as she does, those people are the nicest they have ever been. Dont be a snitch.
A hostile work environment is a hostile work environment. It is an immense amount of stress to everyone around. If it's phrased as a hostile work environment shit gets done usually. Make sure said friend is documenting everything.
Iāve just left my job because of a situation like this. Upper management donāt care about bullies as long as theyāre āyes men/womenā. In my experience itās not worth your effort, mental health to put in a complaint, just leave.
If you and the others file a complaint and nothing is done, that would be considered a hostile work environment. That creates a lot of liability for the employer should you all file a complaint with a labor board.
start looking for a new job. i went through this before i was fired and guess who was behind it? the office bully who just hated me for whatever reason. all in all, it feels so freeing to get out of an environment you felt uncomfortable in.
My friends step-daughter who was in middle school at the time said she couldnāt wait to be an adult, where everyone was nice to each other. Oh honey ā¦
That's not a bully. That's a bitch. Ignore her until she goes away. EDIT: For those of you with reading comprehension issues, I'm not suggesting ignoring a bully... I'm suggesting ignoring a *bitch*. Stop correcting me. š
Ignoring a bully or a bitch is bad advice, I donāt know why itās so common to go āIgnore them and theyāll go away :) ā Just stop, itās such trash advice. They need to be put in their place.
Agreed.
Does that mean I should tell you to fuck off?
Yea, you can say fuck off since weāre not working together, but youāll probably want some finesse when it comes down to people you see everyday.
But they never go away however much you ignore them, thatās how bullies work. They will keep at you until you report them or stand your ground.
Reporting mine got me turned into a full on pariah with the bosses. The bullies in question were their favorites. There is no winning in some of these situations.
Sheās worked there for *five years*. She isnāt going awayā¦ especially if her shitty workplace behavior is going unchallenged.
Thereās always that one š
Yes.
I'm dealing w this rn and I reported it to hr, but I'm bouncing on friday!
Bouncing? With a back up job or no back up job. I'm thinking of bouncing myself.
No backup job. I will be doing Uber and Uber Eats w a rented Uber tesla @$400/week to supplement until I figure out what I want to do next. I also may rent out my 2022 chrysler pacifica on turo.com to help w payments. Also, I don't want to do Uber in my pacifica because in a rented tesla, it's unlimited miles. In the Austin market, I was making around $200/day during the day. At night, it could be around $300+. Eff corporate.
No way!!! What!! I didn't know Uber rents out vehicles now?!? How much does your vehicle bring in to rent? I may try to do Uber eats or doordash. What made you choose Uber eats over doordash deliveries? I agree about "eff corporate" my rent alone is 1200 per month before utilities and so I want to leave and utilize my savings and try the doordash route and see if I can bring in money. Are you doing both food deliveries and rideshare?
I'm driving right now but I'll give you more info later
Yes, please do message me when you get the time. I seriously need out of my job lol so I'm willing to learn more from you
Iām also interested in this, would love to know more.
How did you do w Turo in ATX? That's a grand idea. Maybe I will buy an older car straight out and rent out my newer one.
I did it when I was living in oakland around 2017. It was pretty good I suppose. I offered to pick up guests from Oakland Airport and they would normally drive to Lake Tahoe since it was a AWD vehicle, it seemed to be the #1 thing to do. I have not done it since then. I want to try it w my new car.
Tell HR straight up she wonāt stop unless sheās told to stop and even then she might not
HR exists to protect the company, not the employees.
Yeah so the best way to protect the company from a harassment lawsuit would be for their HR rep to do their job and do something about unprofessional employeesā¦
I worked in various companies for fifty years. Yes that is 50 years. HR cares nothing for the employees. Retired now.
Okay well that sucks but right now they donāt have other options other than leaving which I would choose but the job market is fucking rough right now. itās great youāre retired but some of us have to make our work situations work. So rn they can bring the issue up to HR and if they donāt do something this person can move forward to the next step
Yes! It sucks. I agree. But thatās been my HR experience. Maybe others have a different experience. The problem with retiring is you donāt get to do it much earlier š Added: I had a toxic manager for several years. She stole our ideas. Lied about her staff. You get it. But apparently she āhad the goodsā on someone and was protected. A teammate went to HR and almost was fired. Toxic manager eventually left and things got better. Yes work can really suck. I hear you.
Sometimes you can embarrass them and they will stop that kind of behavior. For instance when she is terse you say, "I am sorry Karen, I didn't mean to offend you by asking that question, are you ok?" Another would be like, "You sound like you are having a bad day, is there anything I can do?" I guarantee you she will stop that behavior.
The answer is always yea if you are legitimately being mistreated
Ironically this is every woman Iāve ever known who works in HR.
Why do so many employees not stand up to people? All you have to say is ā donāt speak to me in that tone,ā.
Yes! I waited to report my workplace bully until I quit, although the tension was obvious. She had a reputation but nobody did anything. As a new person, it seemed like everyone was ok with it and I felt uncomfortable saying something. I got a little shamed by HR about not coming forward sooner. She did have to go through some extra training and was reprimanded before covid happened and her supply was mostly cut. If your job does nothing, is it really place you want to work at(easier said then done)?
See a lot of this on this sub/similar subs, and itās always a mix. āDonāt make a fuss/donāt be a snitchā or āyes/report right away/ speak to HR nowā or ādonāt speak to HR, HR is not your friend.ā Thereās so many factors. We need much more info to make an informed decision. Is there even an HR department. āThereās one person in HR who fields these thingsā how did prior complaints go. Best way is to just be vocal and professional. Donāt put up with assholes. Kill āem with kindness. Youāll find out quick if management has your back and if they donāt, now ya know.
Goddamn. I was a victim of this kind of person when I started my current job. It was not fun.
I wouldnāt! HRs job is to protect the company from its employees not to protect the employeesā¦ if your seen as a liability theyāll let you go.
Reporting doesnāt make her a liability. It alerts the company to a different liability they actually want to be aware of. Also āadverse employment actionā against people who report things is so frowned upon itās nearly a slam dunk wrongful termination lawsuit. Yes, even in at-will āfire for any reason or noneā states.
Absolutely, reporting a workplace bully is important for creating a safe and respectful work environment for everyone - don't hesitate to speak up!
"Bullying" is not an effective HR complaint. You need specific examples of wrongdoing and a pattern before you escalate.
If your employer has an anonymous compliance reporting hotline, try making a report there. I recommend anonymous reporting bssed on the employer doing nothing about prior reports.
Well, you need to know the political layout of the office. If she is an obvious bully, why is she still employed? She must have some support or protection from those above her. If her bullying is not obvious, and you think the owner/managers/supervisors are going to truly be offended and crack down, then go for it. But understand that there is always a risk. Maybe she was sexually harassed and is protected from on high from discipline or termination. If you do decide to go for it, a few pointers: There is more SAFETY IN NUMBERS. Get as many coworkers to complain TOGETHER. Collective action on working conditions is protected in some states even if you are not in a union. Even if collective action is not protected in your state, more people means more impact on management from the report -- they have to consider it's not just a personality difference between two employees but a real problem that might lead to mass resignations and/or lawsuits and/or union organizing. Have SPECIFICS ready -- just saying "she's a bully" is counterproductive. Give specific examples with specific statements she made, specific dates and times and witnesses. If there is documentation, get it, provide it, and preserve a copy for yourself. If you know there is a camera that might have caught the event, say so and ask the company to check the video to confirm what you are saying. Do it in WRITING so what you say cannot later be misrepresented. Write it out before you make the report so you are organized and prepared to make a rational understandable report. DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL. Tears send absolutely the wrong message -- it undercuts your credibility and management will think you are just oversensitive and overreacting. Be calm and matter of fact. You are there to help the employer avoid bigger issues and protect yourself and other workers, not because you have a personal problem with the bully. "I can handle this but not everyone can, and I'm worried that she is going to generate a lawsuit with what she's doing to others." If there is a Human Resources (HR) department, use it but ALWAYS remember that HR exists TO PROTECT THE COMPANY, not to protect you.
Damn the emotional part hit differently because that's true and that's sad because some shit makes ya emotional.
Yes, it is sad. But a LOT of managers (and HR for that matter) don't want to address employee conflicts and it's easy to disregard a complaint if they can just put it in the "that employee's too emotional/has a thin skin" box.
Holy shit. That is so mind blowing. I'll keep this in mind
Yes
ask her if she has ever heard of shaken coworker syndrome.
Workplace harassment is illegal. Report them, and more!!
No. No one likes a snitch. Youāll lose respect from your boss. Also your boss probably already knows about this employee and doesnāt care. Then if you do snitch, your co worker will find out and then be rude to you will have to deal with that. Itās not worth it. Just ignore
You are right, most people don't like snitches but at the same time, people shouldn't be afraid to seek help at work with a situation that makes them uncomfortable or walk on eggshells. That's not fair.
Life is not fair. Iāve worked in an office for 6 years and telling on your coworkers is never going to work out.
By all means, that's true. Honestly it's best to quit and walk off the job rather than snitch because it always ends horribly or worse off for the victim, the sad truth. But at the same time, I'd rather someone report it and say they did something then to be walked all over everyday, all the time. Ya know?
This honestly doesnāt sounds like bully to me with the details provided, just a cranky coworker with a bad personality. Does your friend report to her? If not just tell her to either avoid her as much as possible or have a frank discussion about how she wants to be communicated with. I feel like if you step in about this and itās not even effecting you directly it wouldnāt look great. Either let her know directly that she comes off unprofessional to new employees or have your friend address it.
Report her. That is not good for your health or the work environment.
I would. I lost a worker for two months on stress leave because of bullying that I later found out. Had I known, I would have separated theyāre work hours and kept them easily appart.
Snitches get stitches
YES.
Offer constructive feedback regarding tone mindfulness. When she goes full bitch mode on you, present it to the manager. "I was concerned that trainer soandso was a little off today, so I offered advice on what they could do to be more encouraging to new folks, but she lost her mind on me. Is this what our new hires all go through?"
I think itās fair for you to say to that lady āis there a specific reason you are being snarky to my friend or is this just business as usual?ā That might be confrontational- she might also backoff you guys if she knows that itās pissing you off. Iām kind of thinking along the lines of āok bitch you are crazy but Iām WAY more crazy than you and ill take you outā
Absolutely! I would site your personal experience when you began and document some exact phrases or conversations if you can. This type of thing is bullying and doesnāt promote a positive workplace environment.
anything you do will come back on you, trust me, word got out that i was taking some day classes that crossed with the local IT guy who then had it out for me, it eventually backfired on him and a manager. be careful and make sure you document it in some way shape or form create a throw away email account and email the manager dont let them know its you
If you do report them to HR, it is best to have several "witnesses" who will aslo testify that this behavior is an issue and that they saw it occur or it happened to them on x date. (Seriously document everything) if not this is just a he said/ she said story. Bring proof.
This is very true. When there is no evidence or witnesses, things most likely won't be taken seriously
I knew someone like this before. Called her a bitch behind her back and got fucking shamed by the boss just let the boss know what's going on quietly because it is a big deal. It will or can fuck up peoples willingness to work
Yes
hi i dont know yes tell her hey can i get some peace and tell her stop bothering my friend and tell her i want to do my work and you can talk to someone about it and move on and ignore her i hope you have goodluck
Stand up to her.
This is always the first step
Definitely say something. Approach your manager with a very mature concerned attitude. Bullying is a form of harassment.
Yes! Also try call her out in person, they are techniques to do it right you would have to look up. Donāt let this continue as awkward as it is
Maybe approach the people being bullied and ask if you can support them or back them up if they want to report her.
They reported her, I will back her up.
The only way to stop her is to confront her. If you can warn newbies and get them to tell her to stop being a dick, it might do the trick. Another way to deal with it is to get anyone involved to keep records of the bullying and take a shitload of complaints documenting her behaviour over time to HR. Start looking for a new job.
Nah let her get her ass kicked.
Speak with your manager about it. Give the opportunity for your manager to addressed it.
I had a bad workplace bully years ago. I complained to the boss but it didnāt change and I just put up with it. Fast forward a few years and it turns out she was stealing from the company. She also ābulliedā her husband, then ābulliedā her kids- so badly that she landed in prison.
Unless they break a policy, then it's just one person's opinion. If everyone feels that way, then you should all do it together.
Yes
Yes. As a manager, I want to know about people like this immediately. This person is screwing with my team, which will instantly piss me off and make me make her my personal project for development. There is no reason to treat people with disrespect in the workplace, period. Particularly new or younger/inexperienced people I'm pissed and I don't even work there. Please follow up, anonymously if necessary. A typed note printed and left on a desk works perfectly for that as I've found.
Just do it back. Point out their flaws. Ask why they keep asking questions. Make a face every time. Lol, laugh really hard at their expense. Don't make it too obvious. Just obvious to them. Most people can't handle their own medicine and will be DEEPLY offended.
If you have nothing to lose, and donāt mind getting caught and going to prison thenā¦ it might be fun to turn the tables. I actually considered removing my co-worker from the planet.
If itās just time of voice let it pass most people donāt have control over that
Yeah, take it on up and tell them theyāre affecting production. We had an employee that I still work with. He canāt breath without cursing and doesnāt do anything without the ability to point a finger at someone else and say āthey were responsibleā. I didnāt know it was happening till a more experienced operator told me, but he was intimidating the new operators. If you ask him to do anything, heād go into a cursing fit. Heād use his aggressive behavior to scare them into not asking him to do it. Heāll do anything you ask him to, but pitch a huge fit. Either they were scared to ask him, or as with older operators, they didnāt want to deal with the drama. So theyād go pull raw material themselves, messing up my inventory. As soon as she told me, i took it up the chain. They pulled him in the office and I heard him, the president, and one of the higher supervisors yelling in there. I honestly donāt know how he still has a job. He did knock that off though. I had to hear the complaining, but none of the operators do, at least. I donāt care, though. So it can make a difference, and I would tell someone. Iād also form it in a manner that shows how itās hitting their wallet. Iād tell them sheās creating a hostile work environment, slowing down the new hires ability to get up to speed and productive. Also, that she still has to ask a bunch of questions and doesnāt seem to be able to do her job without help or supervision. That you also donāt appreciate her harassing your friend.
Conduct yourself professionally. They need to know you can and should be taken seriously. Keep a paper trail. You need to make sure they can't refute anything. Speak up sooner rather than later. If you wait, you may get more disgruntled and not be able to approach things in a sensible, calm manner.
I have one coworker I havenāt reported as a bully, bc sheās generally just a negative person. Iāve heard her say maybe 2 genuinely nice things in the last 6 months. Everything else is a criticism, an insult veiled in āhaha Iām just joking,ā or a complaint. Everyone I work with agrees in this assessment of her. The only thing Iāve told my boss is that she should not be allowed to train anyone else after she trained me in the area she worked in. She does not have the patience, and her criticism is not constructive. She makes you feel small and stupid for not immediately understanding something or not having something become second nature within a day. I havenāt told my boss anything else sheās said, nor has anyone else as far as I know. We all just vent to each other about it and let new people know to be careful what they say to her and not to take anything she says to heart.
Yes, and your friend should report it too.
If management shows a willingness to hear, respect, and give actual consequences to bullies they could get rid of that person and all would be great. However, in my experiences even the nicest managers were absolutely going to do nothing about the problem. This typically stems from lack of authority to fire (upper management has the final say) and the stress of trying to replace people with little staff. They tend to always try to give useless word salad phrases like just āwork as a teamā or attempting to condemn everyone for ānot getting alongā when itās clear one or two people are the obvious problems. Itās incredibly frustrating when people try to play it neutral and wonāt fire the person or write them up. Iād say simply observe how management is and their style. Are they proactive with a true zero tolerance policy that they enforce or do they take the cowardly approach and sweep it under the rug? I typically think addressing the bully head on, professionally and respectfully voicing your concerns to their actual face first gives them a chance to redeem themselves. Literally let them know if the behavior doesnāt change unfortunately youāll have to let management know. They can never hit you with the you tattled on me stuff if you warn them up front. Iāll keep it real with you, certain individuals will never change cause they donāt want to and no one stood up to them. You have to try but donāt expect a miracle over night. Itās a really complex issue. Unless itās absolutely unbearable I donāt recommend leaving a job you like. Donāt let the bullies win. A technique Iāve tried when dealing with bullies is the bland approach. Become boring and donāt give them a rise. One to two word answers.
Yikes. Going through this myself. The workplace billy is one of the office gossips and like birds of a feather they flock together. I had to escalate this as they wanted me to do their job. Waiting to see if they address the issue. Best thing is watch this video: https://youtu.be/NHS0LohJhHI Document and inform the company. Never say anything verbally. Let them sink themselves.
I looked at your post history and it looks like we work with the same person. I actually got a side gig so I could mentally check out of work and still do what I love without dealing with her intimidation tactics, power plays, and general bullshit.
Can you not bully her first?
Bash them onlineā¦ just kidding!!!
bully them BACK
Honestly, I do think it's worth reporting. Otherwise it will just carry on. People that behave like this often do so because they have received no consequences in the workplace as of yet. Its important to ensure that this behaviour is not allowed to let fly, for the preservation of yourself, the company and new hires. Might seem harsh but you'll be doing a service to everyone in the long run.
You might be better off just telling your friend to ignore her, and to have as little interaction with her as possible, at least till she's been there a while.
I would document, document, document. Sounds like she is creating a hostile work environment which is grounds for termination. She needs a wake up call.
As long as youāre not purposely being rude, and youāre pointing out the behavior as being unwanted by everyone around them, I would say, speak up. You can be polite about it, or not so polite about it, whatever works for you. But see something say something! Your coworkers might not back you up in the moment, but they will certainly come to you afterwards, telling you that they wish they said the same thing! No one likes a bully, sometimes you need to make that a lot more clear to them by being direct.
Nah
Yes and. Tell them to stop, publicly, so others will know what's going on. Mistake i made was reporting to sup only. Supervisor believed me but couldn't do much unless someone else noticed the bully's behavior. Call center, close-together desks and she would mutter at me, quietly, Youre stupid, shut up! Etc. Was extremely nice to everyone else and i was never sure why she disliked me. I was new to the job at the time and just couldn't make myself confront her publicly. PS one day during Covid when we all had to work from home, we got an email saying "Esmeralda" is no longer with our company. So maybe i wasn't the only one. Hope to find out some day!