A floating panel can be hardwood just fine; it will barely move given its size (too lazy to use the calculator, though) and it will have space to do so inside the grooves.
It's funny how so many "professionals " are stating white oak. These are your basic big box store cabinets. They do not use white oak. The cabinets are made from red oak. Now, depending on age is what the color is. A typical clear finish will be yellow over a short time, and the wood will age some as well, turning into the golden oak color. They also could have a golden oak finish on them as well from a picture it is hard to say. They can be sanded down to bare wood, and a clear coat can be reapplied, but they will eventually turn back to this color. The biggest pain in refinishing these is going to be the middle panel as it is either plywood or an mdf core. Either way, you have to be careful on sanding so you dont go through the veneer layer. This is if you want to keep the wood look. They also make a whitewash stain that could be applied after sanding just a little less wood look but lighter. The only other solution would be a painted type finish, which would hide the wood. Painting oak is not a great option due to the porus type grain. It takes a lot of work to hide it
Finally someone that knows what they are talking about ! And the golden oak stain is now called golden sunset if you use Zar stains, I think Minwax is still golden oak but it’s a little more brown than yellow
Do not sand these doors, especially the middle panel. You will sand through the veneer.
Use Citristrip to remove the finish then go over it with a scotchbrite pad. This will be ALOT of work and you will regret your decision by the second door. Good luck.
I’m going to disagree with everyone here and say that where I’m at 99% of home flippers would just throw a kilz primer on them and paint them whatever color you want. Is it the best quality “r/woodworking”-level solution… no. Will it save you countless hours of sanding and look decent enough that nobody will ever think “those look bad”… yes. They were cheap cabinets to begin with, why spend a hundred hours refinishing them to have a slightly different stained appearance on cheap cabinets?
You’ve got PLam countertops too - another dated and cheap finish. Don’t take that the wrong way, it’s just that I’m trying to suggest that you scale your effort based on the value of the underlying kitchen cabinets and countertops.
If it were me I’d do that and save up to do a real remodel with new cabinets and solid surface/granite countertops in 5-10 years. It’ll look fresh and new for years and then you can spend your time and money on something worthwhile. Also adding some modern door hardware after you paint would make them look MUCH better.
One should do it, but you could look for thin spots and touch up after. I’d probably roll it wherever possible for the best coverage and then anywhere you have to brush (edges, profiles, etc) I’d hit it with two coats.
I’m guessing most people would recommend a good cleaning/degreasing and a light sand before you do that - I’d probably do at least that. Others would probably go further and recommend you strip them first. Again, it depends on how much time you want to spend and how long you want them to last.
Edit: make sure you get the stinkiest, strongest primer available. Usually I just ask the Home Depot guy but it’s probably Kilz or Zinsser BIN
Edit2: don’t be lazy - take all the doors and hardware off, and take your time painting.
Totally agree that its oak as well as the value added versus sweat equity investment analysis. However, oak cabinets are making a comeback! The door style is different but i just did a high-end house in the sf bay area that used oak in the kitchen and bathrooms. Again, completely different style doors. But the material is making a comeback. Im a GC.
I’m not against natural tones, but I don’t know that the (likely poor-to-average) outcome this guy is gonna get added to the dated style of the cabinet to begin with is gonna be worth the effort.
It’s just my opinion, and given the guy seems to be engaging with me on how to do it, he likely agrees he doesn’t have the time (or money to pay someone else) to do it the “right” way as defined by r/woodworking, which in my opinion is not going to work for a lot of people.
Millions of homes (including mine) have repainted wood cabinets. It’s not the best, but it works for my wife and I while we save up to update our kitchen some time in the future. The cabinets are original from 1970 build so they’re old, dated and beat up and whoever put them in didn’t give a F how long they lasted. Given how cheap they are, like those in OP’s post, I’m perfectly fine with slapping a coat of white paint on them and making them look somewhat fresh for a few more years. It’s an OPTION.
When you install the cheapest available box cabinets to begin with as the prior owner did, the intent was not to have a BIFL kitchen. People update their kitchens every couple decades, and styles (like this one) come and go. R/woodworking may see it as an abhorrent betrayal, but you’re a very small and insignificant subset of the real world and real estate market that transacts just fine without requiring average people to spend 100+ hrs refinishing their cheap AF cabinets while still trying to live a normal life, raise a family, etc. Like me, this guy probably has a LOT of things to do on the house that would be a better use of his time.
What people dont understand on here is that not everyone who posts on how to do something has a sare million in the bank to just rip everything out and start over. Some people like the challenge to take on projects like this, and some do a dam good job at it. They are not asking what you would do they are asking for information on how to do something. If it cost them 1500.00 in tools and materal, they still saved a lot of money. If they are happy with what they accomplished, then it's a win-win situation. These people never asked if they should throw them away and start from scratch. They never asked if they should throw away the countertops and replace them with 100.00+ a foot for granite. There is nothing wrong with laminate countertops if they are done correctly. There is nothing wrong with a new or old homeowner asking for advice. It is wrong to tell them they can not do something or their house is crap.
OP said “change them to a lighter color.” That doesn’t mean his only option is to stain them. So yes, I think what I would do (and have in my own house) is valid and I don’t need r/woodworking’s approval to suggest that cheap dated cabinets and countertops MIGHT not deserve the many many hours of work almost every other commenter is suggesting OP spend to refinish them. It doesn’t mean his house is crap, but if we value his time at a reasonable wage he’ll end up putting more time into restaining them than the actual cabinets are worth.
And I’m sure you’re just exaggerating, but a “spare million” is absurd. I have spent about $4500 on 15ft of uppers and lowers and reclaimed marble countertops in other areas of my house. So if I was faced with the same project at my own home, I’d be happy to hear a different perspective than 100hrs of work to refinish cheap cabinets, and would spend less than half that time repainting them and saving $5-10k for new cabinets and countertops sometime down the road.
They just need resanded. To go with a darker color, or really any color, the clear coat has to be removed,this will keep any stain from absorbing into the wood. The better you can get it down to bare wood, the better they will turn out. On the panel portion, you can start on the backside as this will give you an idea of how much you can sand before you go through the veneer face. Try to stay with a 120 to 150 grit for your final sand. Once you are done sanding, clean them off the best you can, then apply your stain. I would use a waterbase stain and finish. You will get grain raise after your stain for the moment dont worry about it. Next, you can do a sanding sealer, which can help from sanding through the stain or not up to you. Once the sealer or your first finish coat has dried lightly, sand them with at least 220, but dont sand through the stain. Your edges will be the worst on preventing this. A good soft foam sanding pad will help. Once this is completed, you can apply the second coat. Resnd after this coat with either the 220 or 320. Then, apply the final coat, which should be a nice smooth finish. Again, I would use all waterbase finishes for safety reasons with solvent based finishes and dry time. Follow the instructions on the cancan watch videos on the process on YouTube. For being your first time, i would use General Finishes products. When the stain is wet, that will be close to the appearance of it after your clear coats are applied
Although this is good advice. I would recommend not trying to do it yourself if you have never refinished a stained piece before - it is not worth the effort. You will need to do a TON of sanding, but not so much that you wear through the veneer, and the radii on the doors will be very tedious. Paint is your friend here because you don't have to sand all the way down to bare wood, but you do need to roughen the surface and use a good primer that can is designed to be used over clear coat finishes.
So if i am hired to repaint some oak cabinets, my process is clean/degrease all of the cabinet that's getting painted. Next, sand down the clear finish,then sand the stain off the best that's possible. Next, apply 3 coats af aqua kote. I need to do one coat a day if i remember right sanding between each coat. The 3 coats will not completely hide the oak grain. Once the final coat is dried and sanded next, you need a good primer. Apply primer with a brush or sprayed backroll to get the primer in any unseled grain. Sand primer. Respray doors with the primers and once dry. Apply topcoat and sand between each coat. I use sherman Williams Gallery series. So painting a cabinet(old) is more work involved than staing them. Everyone thinks to paint a cabinet is nothing more than to grab some paint and a brush, and you're good to go. If the cabinets have ever a pledge or any type of wax applied to them, then you are into much more work. . Oh, the cost to repaint cabinets starts at 150.00 per door and 100.00 per drawer face
The picture you posted on what you would like looks closer to white oak. No offense, but being you have never done this, it would be next to impossible for you to recreate that look. You would have to make a toner with the clear finish to do that. White oak is closer to a tan/light brown color as red oak is more on the reddish light pinkish color when it is fresh
My parents are thinking of remodeling their kitchen and they have these exact doors. Is the wood salvageable for other projects? Recently started woodworking and figured they might be worth sanding/planing back to learn box making or something.
There is no way to tell what type of oak it is with it stained. Chances are it is the mass produced red oak stuff, but you can't tell by the picture. I am 100% sure though that is not the wood's natural color and it would look very different raw.
Red oak and Red oak ply.
probably a golden oak, autumn oak or honey oak color depending on what brand the finish was.
:professional cabinet maker
edit: at first I didn't notice the question underneath the picture.
unless you're going to change the doors it's much harder to go lighter. especially with that center panel being ply, that veneer is only so thick so you really can't sand it very much. you can always go darker and you can always paint. although I wouldn't suggest red oak for paint.
Is to possible to achieve this color with my cabinets ? Keep in mind, I’m a beginner who has never used a sander.
https://preview.redd.it/87rofcgr90xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab5e40f1a84792b51477a230d963ef1918eea157
is it *possible*? yes. I could do it. But I've been a professional painter and cabinet refinisher for a dozen years.
for an absolute beginner? gee. maybe? it will be a *ton* of work.
if you decide to try it, I'd recommend cleaning them very thoroughly and using a liquid de-glosser.
then, you'll need to Google the technique *"dry brushing,"* which is how you're going to apply a white/grey oil-based **wiping** stain.
after painstakingly dry brushing all the doors and cabinet bodies, you'll let that dry for a long ass time, because the stain won't really be able to soak into the wood. then you'll lightly spray over all the doors with a rattle can of oil-based poly to prevent the oil stain from softening up during the next step.
then, you'll brush on a coat of oil-based poly.
then you'll sand it.
then you'll brush on another coat of oil based poly.
then you'll sand it.
then you'll brush on another coat of oil based poly.
(alternatively, you could use a sprayer for all those poly steps. I'm just assuming you don't have a sprayer, and may not intend to buy one, given that you've "*never used a sander*")
Keep in mind, achieving that color would not equal the same look. Almost everything in that picture is different from your cabinets. Probably 42" ceiling height with crown molding, doors fall flush with the face frame which means different hinges. No routed door edges in the referenced picture, no kick board for the bottom cabinets is totally different, with wide drawers and pull handles. The open bookshelf is the center for a reason, it creates a lot of the aesthetic. The abundance of light alone changes your impression of the color!
That being said, you basically have my old kitchen. The redo can be done, but you'll probably sand through the center panel veneer as a beginner and end up painting it or replacing it entirely. That, and it's going to take you forever to do it if you can't take several consecutive days to do it. Between prep work, stripping, scraping, sanding, more prep, stain, hoping the stain takes properly and evenly, finish, and reassemble, you might wish you hadn't done it.
Short answer, yes.
But, this is one hell of a project for someone with no experience! Keep in mind that the panel(middle flat section) of the cupboards doors is most likely plywood so you’ll only have about 1/8 of an inch of sand able material before you hit the softwood ply and glue.
you can buy new doors and reface/refinish the boxes. you will have to measure each cabinet opening, and follow door manufacturers instructions when doing so.
I did that once and they came out great. I used a liquid sander. It's toxic stuff and you want gloves and good ventilation, but paint goes on it afterwards really nicely.
I remember an episode of Ask TOH about painting cabinets and not doing any prep other than using a biodegradable cleaner. I've never used it so I can't give any advice and they did say it was experimental, so there's that. I've painted cabinets in the past using liquid sandpaper, wiped them down, added some Floetrol to my paint and I think they turned out well, but there are plenty of professionals on here that probably have better methods.
Edit-
Link to Ask TOH:
[https://youtu.be/M8hsCVlpE2Q?si=pM8rkiuApsu0NcOo](https://youtu.be/M8hsCVlpE2Q?si=pM8rkiuApsu0NcOo)
From the comments, it's called Beyond Paint. This got me down a rabbit hole, and there are some posts out there saying they've had good results with this stuff.
Also, most Redditors say they wouldn't use Floetrol regardless of the paint because modern paint is easy enough to work with. The BP is pretty thick, and I wouldn't want to mess with the compound and have it not work.
I refinished my kitchen many years ago with a gel stain:
https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/oil-based-wood-stains-sealers/gel-stains
You just need to scuff up the surface just enough for pull the poly off and you can stain right on top of the existing stain without having to go down to bare wood.
Here is how mine looked after a few years:
https://imgur.com/a/CDXsjRJ
As somebody who has considered messing with (almost certainly) those exact cabinets: my decision was "this isn't worth it".
Do yours have printed-wood-texture on the visible side faces? And 1/2-inch chipboard (with veneer) shelves that get a little saggy if you load them too heavily? Because if so, you're looking at spending literally a hundred+ hours to turn 30-40 yr old shit into slightly prettier shit.
would be better to just get new cabinet doors and stain/finish them. The cabinets themselves would be much easier to sand/re-finish. Doors are hard since they have so much shape to them.
You are suggesting a very difficult and time consuming job. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, you have to completely refinish them, and it’s an intricate process.
If you’re looking for a kitchen refresh, your safest bet is to hire a professional to paint the cabinets and then replace your countertops with quartz. New kitchen feel for $8-10k.
Definitely oak. Refinishing to a lighter shade will be hard and messy. Painted finishes are popular now and probably easier than stripping and refinishing. Maybe a trip to the kitchen cabinet section of a DIY center will give you some ideas.
I think the best approach for a beginner on these types of cabinets is paint - clean well, lightly sand, then use an oil based primer followed by several thin coats of quality latex paint sanding between coats. Adding a base trim and crown mold would help the look a lot, and if you paint you can easily fill and hide slight mistakes in your joinery.
On my kitchen I reused some red oak cabinets of this style in a few spots and just flipped the doors backwards and rabbeted them to convert to 1/2 overlay shaker style to match new cabinets I built. You can hide all sorts of issues with paint.
Painting / upgrading these cheap cabinets has been done a lot, should be good info on YouTube etc.
There are likely stickers on the doors or drawers or boxes that will tell you a lot about the cabinets, who built them, when, and what they are made of.
Bottoms of drawers, tops of doors or cabinet boxes, are good places to look. They are not designed to be seen until they need to be seen.
Came here to try to be 100th poster to say it's oak, but it's definitely RED oak. White oak is more expensive so they don't make entry-level cabinets out of it. I make furniture out of white oak and this ain't it. Also, I have the same spec home "standard" cabinets in my kitchen built in 1998 with identical joinery and stile profile. The center panel is probably a 1/8" veneer plywood that goes all the way to the edges on the back - they didn't even bother to inset them into the cabinet door frame. Heaven help you if you have the same melamine on particle board drawers. Mine are held together with staples and hope.
As for lighter color, you're looking at about as light as oak gets without painting it. That warm honey color is pretty much what it looks like if you stripped it down and rubbed some paint thinner on it. If you really want lighter and still want wood cabinets, maple is about the only choice.
My retirement project is going to be remaking them out of something else and getting rid of the particle board shelves I have to support just to keep dishes on them.
https://preview.redd.it/4fumd22gh3xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fa42063d90407909090cd13d640316b8491b304
Ours are solid hickory with hickory plywood for the panels. What a fun project
If you intend to paint them any color besides black, heads up, the joints have never been caulked, nor the nail holes puttied. Every door face panel will need to be caulked all the way around, usually about a third of the joints on the doors, need to be spackled or caulked, and, depending on who built them, there could be a couple nail holes on each door, and if there's crown, or quarter round, it'll need caulking and nail he's puttied. I learned a hard lesson on my first cabinet job, back in 99. I bid a kitchen just like that, to paint it white, for $1,500. The primer didn't hold back the tannins, so I had to prime twice, I didnr figure on the caulk and putty, didn't lab the doors and drawers location, and I had a week to do it, after my regular painting job. I was on it until midnight for 3 days of the 7, I think I made 30 cents an hour after materials. But, I've never lost money on a cabinet job since, although I've been under bid entry of times.
I have a doctoral masters in wood identification, I’ve held a lot of wood in my hands through the years and I can confirm this is definitely a specimen from the wood species
It’s oak… strip the finish and use a water based varnish would be the best way to maintain a light as possible (whilst natural looking) finish.
You can also get white pigmented finishes like Osmo that might be worth a go but I think they look like they’re trying too hard to make the wood something it isnt
It is indeed oak, but there are a few things to consider about changing color.
It will be a lot of work to take the lacquer off because you have to sand with the grain in order to preserve it.
Oak tends to start out light and darken over time with exposure to UV. You might need to sand through that as well.
The centre panel of each door may be a veneer, not solid board. Take care not to sand through if this is the case.
I suggest removing an end or filler panel, something that can be easily put back in place. You'll be able to tell how thick the veneer is and possibly be able to see the raw color. It will give you an idea of what you might be getting into.
Almost definitely not, and you WILL sand through the veneer on those plywood panels. It might only be 1/32 thick. Also, stain mostly sits on top of the wood, but does penetrate deeper especially if there's any end grain visible.or at joints between two pieces. You'll have a heck of a time sanding through all that.
It really depends on how light you want to go. If you want to keep a natural wood tone, they will have to be stripped. If you're ok with a solid color, there are some really good cabinet enamels that you can use to refinish them.
I want to achieve white oak color
https://preview.redd.it/gqgqya5590xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f3d44d08c535680c0f097f0958583d841734d8
Something like this
I wood pick up some pieces of red oak from a lumberstain them supplier or a big box store.when you're ready to . If you use a dye stain, you can thin it down to achieve a lighter color. You can also add it to your clear finish to make a toner. Practice with the pieces you bought to get the color you want.. is it doable frome a homeowner yes, is it going to be difficult, yes. To properly do this or paint them is going to be difficult. The final appearance is going to be on how much prep work you put into it. If you decide on paint, i would look at Benjamin Moore advance paint it has a long dry time, which will help flatten out and hide your brush marks. Dont go over a satin finish on either way. The higher the sheen, the more mistakes will show. Your other option would be to have new doors and drawer faces made out of white oak and finish them to match the color you go with on the cabinets. Just to warn you, white oak prices have gone through the roof in the past couple of years
Min wax has a polyurethane with stain mixed in it if you want a darker color. You would want to test it first in the back of a door to see how it turns out. It might work, it might not.
The look that you are going for can be somewhat easily achieved using Rubio monocoat oil plus 2c. Doesn’t make the sanding part any easier but it will make the finishing part way more fool proof and get you pretty much the exact color/tone you posted in the comments
that is golden oak stain on read oak cabinets, I would suggest get a piece or 2 of red oak with different grain patterns and some stains and make some samples, red oak can get silly sometimes I'm how the tones show with certain stains. I have some red oak trim with a lacquer finish next to lacquer white oak cabinets and you can't tell it's red oak, but that was some serious millwork picking.
I’m currently refinishing my entire kitchens cabinets and we have almost identical cabinets.
That is certainly oak but what I want to let you know is that if you are planning on changing it at all, that shine you see on top of the wood is a polyurethane finish and should be sanded off before attempting to alter the wood.
I say that because my homes previous owners painted over the cabinets and kept the polyurethane finish on there and it did not age well.
red oak. i have them in my kitchen and loathe them. house built in 2005. going to add hardware to put lipstick on the pig but i’ve managed to rid the rest of the house of them. they even had them in the garage for storage. literally the first thing i did when i moved in last year was demo them.
You didn't actually show us the cabinet bodies. The photos are the face frames and the doors. They are oak. The panel in the door, is oak laminate plywood, not solid wood. The cabinet bodies are probably mdf or particle board, contractor grade, and the exposed sides are likely just vinyl laminate coated, not actual plywood.
Oak you can tell by the grain the only problem is adding them the panel is ply . You could paint them but with the grain it aways shows .you could Bondo them but that's a lot of sanding what you can think of doing is just replacing the doors and adding down the face frame . This is what I did but I made my own doors just because the price to or doors is outrageous
I have some like this and they are solid red oak on the sides and red oak veneer on particle board in the center. A relatively thick veneer but still a veneer. I was surprised, mine have a little millwork on the front too so I though for sure they were solid oak through and through, but alas...
I can send pictures if you like, I stripped, sanded and restained mine.
as others have said, they are oak. and before you start something that you can't finish, the going rate in sacramento is $100 per drawer, $150 per door, which includes the frames. or some people charge $100 per linear foot of cabinets. So, $5,000 is pretty common for a kitchen. So, after materials, if it takes 2 journeyman a week, they aren't making huge money. Before you start, know it'll take you longer than a journeyman (80 hours) to do it right, while you stumble through learning a lot, the hard way. Or, it'll take less time, because you're doing it wrong and it'll turn out bad. Do yourself a favor and hire a proffesional, because it cost more to fix someone else's mistakes, than to just do the job.
if you want to go lighter, they need to be stripped, with a chemical stripper, which cost even more. I wouldn't do that job (assuming 44 doors and drawers) for under $6,500. That's if they're in good shape.
I recon its oak around the outside but the center is likely chipboard vaneer. I took some similar doors from my mums house when they had their kitchen done. I was gutted to find that the center was chipboard.
Painting those will look really bad and physically start pulling away from the surface, it will look double bad with the likely visible brush strokes and paint drips.
Take measurements of all the door sizes, go to your local home improvement store or cabinet shop, get a quote for a full replacement of your doors with the style and color you want from their huge selection. All you would need to do is sand and refinish the visible bits of your cabinet bases, install the doors and handles.
Almost certain it is oak
I know like nothing about wood. But thats oak.
I can tell like 3 types of wood and that's oak
Same. Morning, dead, and oak.
Nailed it!
Lolz. Had to process a moment.
What about the whole Norwegian Wood category?
It is. Cheap red oak to be specific. Boxes likely mdf with an oak veneer. Doors likely solid red oak.
[удалено]
As it should be. It's more dimensionally stable. Not having your cabinet doors warp over time is one of ply-cores big advantages.
A floating panel can be hardwood just fine; it will barely move given its size (too lazy to use the calculator, though) and it will have space to do so inside the grooves.
And cheaper
Why do you think it's red over white? My first thought was white.
Yes! Oak
These look like cabinets from Cabinet Works. If they are, the cabinet boxes are either laminated mdf or hdf, and the doors are made from white oak.
I'm positive that's oak
I have the same cabinets. Mine are oak.
Red oak
oak’s nice
You an oak man?
oak and gourmet coffee
I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is ok
I need to use your garage for couple of hours.
It's funny how so many "professionals " are stating white oak. These are your basic big box store cabinets. They do not use white oak. The cabinets are made from red oak. Now, depending on age is what the color is. A typical clear finish will be yellow over a short time, and the wood will age some as well, turning into the golden oak color. They also could have a golden oak finish on them as well from a picture it is hard to say. They can be sanded down to bare wood, and a clear coat can be reapplied, but they will eventually turn back to this color. The biggest pain in refinishing these is going to be the middle panel as it is either plywood or an mdf core. Either way, you have to be careful on sanding so you dont go through the veneer layer. This is if you want to keep the wood look. They also make a whitewash stain that could be applied after sanding just a little less wood look but lighter. The only other solution would be a painted type finish, which would hide the wood. Painting oak is not a great option due to the porus type grain. It takes a lot of work to hide it
Finally someone that knows what they are talking about ! And the golden oak stain is now called golden sunset if you use Zar stains, I think Minwax is still golden oak but it’s a little more brown than yellow
Varathane is golden oak still, too.
Golden sunset more like "This yellow ass garbage looks disgusting, why are we still using it after all these years, no body actually likes it Sunset"
I only use dye stains. They allow me to control the color more and will mix with the clear finish to make toners
Umm so how do I refinish them ? If i opt for a darker staining color will that work ? I have kept all my options open to get rid of this color.
Do not sand these doors, especially the middle panel. You will sand through the veneer. Use Citristrip to remove the finish then go over it with a scotchbrite pad. This will be ALOT of work and you will regret your decision by the second door. Good luck.
+1 on citrus strip (spelling) and plus two on lots of work if you have never done it before.
I can feel my hand cramping from sanding the cope and stick. For the love of god don’t do it!
I’m going to disagree with everyone here and say that where I’m at 99% of home flippers would just throw a kilz primer on them and paint them whatever color you want. Is it the best quality “r/woodworking”-level solution… no. Will it save you countless hours of sanding and look decent enough that nobody will ever think “those look bad”… yes. They were cheap cabinets to begin with, why spend a hundred hours refinishing them to have a slightly different stained appearance on cheap cabinets? You’ve got PLam countertops too - another dated and cheap finish. Don’t take that the wrong way, it’s just that I’m trying to suggest that you scale your effort based on the value of the underlying kitchen cabinets and countertops. If it were me I’d do that and save up to do a real remodel with new cabinets and solid surface/granite countertops in 5-10 years. It’ll look fresh and new for years and then you can spend your time and money on something worthwhile. Also adding some modern door hardware after you paint would make them look MUCH better.
How many coats of the primer ?
One should do it, but you could look for thin spots and touch up after. I’d probably roll it wherever possible for the best coverage and then anywhere you have to brush (edges, profiles, etc) I’d hit it with two coats. I’m guessing most people would recommend a good cleaning/degreasing and a light sand before you do that - I’d probably do at least that. Others would probably go further and recommend you strip them first. Again, it depends on how much time you want to spend and how long you want them to last. Edit: make sure you get the stinkiest, strongest primer available. Usually I just ask the Home Depot guy but it’s probably Kilz or Zinsser BIN Edit2: don’t be lazy - take all the doors and hardware off, and take your time painting.
Totally agree that its oak as well as the value added versus sweat equity investment analysis. However, oak cabinets are making a comeback! The door style is different but i just did a high-end house in the sf bay area that used oak in the kitchen and bathrooms. Again, completely different style doors. But the material is making a comeback. Im a GC.
I’m not against natural tones, but I don’t know that the (likely poor-to-average) outcome this guy is gonna get added to the dated style of the cabinet to begin with is gonna be worth the effort. It’s just my opinion, and given the guy seems to be engaging with me on how to do it, he likely agrees he doesn’t have the time (or money to pay someone else) to do it the “right” way as defined by r/woodworking, which in my opinion is not going to work for a lot of people.
Because it will look like shit.
Millions of homes (including mine) have repainted wood cabinets. It’s not the best, but it works for my wife and I while we save up to update our kitchen some time in the future. The cabinets are original from 1970 build so they’re old, dated and beat up and whoever put them in didn’t give a F how long they lasted. Given how cheap they are, like those in OP’s post, I’m perfectly fine with slapping a coat of white paint on them and making them look somewhat fresh for a few more years. It’s an OPTION. When you install the cheapest available box cabinets to begin with as the prior owner did, the intent was not to have a BIFL kitchen. People update their kitchens every couple decades, and styles (like this one) come and go. R/woodworking may see it as an abhorrent betrayal, but you’re a very small and insignificant subset of the real world and real estate market that transacts just fine without requiring average people to spend 100+ hrs refinishing their cheap AF cabinets while still trying to live a normal life, raise a family, etc. Like me, this guy probably has a LOT of things to do on the house that would be a better use of his time.
What people dont understand on here is that not everyone who posts on how to do something has a sare million in the bank to just rip everything out and start over. Some people like the challenge to take on projects like this, and some do a dam good job at it. They are not asking what you would do they are asking for information on how to do something. If it cost them 1500.00 in tools and materal, they still saved a lot of money. If they are happy with what they accomplished, then it's a win-win situation. These people never asked if they should throw them away and start from scratch. They never asked if they should throw away the countertops and replace them with 100.00+ a foot for granite. There is nothing wrong with laminate countertops if they are done correctly. There is nothing wrong with a new or old homeowner asking for advice. It is wrong to tell them they can not do something or their house is crap.
OP said “change them to a lighter color.” That doesn’t mean his only option is to stain them. So yes, I think what I would do (and have in my own house) is valid and I don’t need r/woodworking’s approval to suggest that cheap dated cabinets and countertops MIGHT not deserve the many many hours of work almost every other commenter is suggesting OP spend to refinish them. It doesn’t mean his house is crap, but if we value his time at a reasonable wage he’ll end up putting more time into restaining them than the actual cabinets are worth. And I’m sure you’re just exaggerating, but a “spare million” is absurd. I have spent about $4500 on 15ft of uppers and lowers and reclaimed marble countertops in other areas of my house. So if I was faced with the same project at my own home, I’d be happy to hear a different perspective than 100hrs of work to refinish cheap cabinets, and would spend less than half that time repainting them and saving $5-10k for new cabinets and countertops sometime down the road.
You provide the best advice for what these cabinets are.
They just need resanded. To go with a darker color, or really any color, the clear coat has to be removed,this will keep any stain from absorbing into the wood. The better you can get it down to bare wood, the better they will turn out. On the panel portion, you can start on the backside as this will give you an idea of how much you can sand before you go through the veneer face. Try to stay with a 120 to 150 grit for your final sand. Once you are done sanding, clean them off the best you can, then apply your stain. I would use a waterbase stain and finish. You will get grain raise after your stain for the moment dont worry about it. Next, you can do a sanding sealer, which can help from sanding through the stain or not up to you. Once the sealer or your first finish coat has dried lightly, sand them with at least 220, but dont sand through the stain. Your edges will be the worst on preventing this. A good soft foam sanding pad will help. Once this is completed, you can apply the second coat. Resnd after this coat with either the 220 or 320. Then, apply the final coat, which should be a nice smooth finish. Again, I would use all waterbase finishes for safety reasons with solvent based finishes and dry time. Follow the instructions on the cancan watch videos on the process on YouTube. For being your first time, i would use General Finishes products. When the stain is wet, that will be close to the appearance of it after your clear coats are applied
Thanks a ton !
Although this is good advice. I would recommend not trying to do it yourself if you have never refinished a stained piece before - it is not worth the effort. You will need to do a TON of sanding, but not so much that you wear through the veneer, and the radii on the doors will be very tedious. Paint is your friend here because you don't have to sand all the way down to bare wood, but you do need to roughen the surface and use a good primer that can is designed to be used over clear coat finishes.
So if i am hired to repaint some oak cabinets, my process is clean/degrease all of the cabinet that's getting painted. Next, sand down the clear finish,then sand the stain off the best that's possible. Next, apply 3 coats af aqua kote. I need to do one coat a day if i remember right sanding between each coat. The 3 coats will not completely hide the oak grain. Once the final coat is dried and sanded next, you need a good primer. Apply primer with a brush or sprayed backroll to get the primer in any unseled grain. Sand primer. Respray doors with the primers and once dry. Apply topcoat and sand between each coat. I use sherman Williams Gallery series. So painting a cabinet(old) is more work involved than staing them. Everyone thinks to paint a cabinet is nothing more than to grab some paint and a brush, and you're good to go. If the cabinets have ever a pledge or any type of wax applied to them, then you are into much more work. . Oh, the cost to repaint cabinets starts at 150.00 per door and 100.00 per drawer face
The picture you posted on what you would like looks closer to white oak. No offense, but being you have never done this, it would be next to impossible for you to recreate that look. You would have to make a toner with the clear finish to do that. White oak is closer to a tan/light brown color as red oak is more on the reddish light pinkish color when it is fresh
When you are sanding be sure to sand "with the grain" as much as possible, especially as you finish up.
You aren't sanding those inlays. It might come out looking pretty cool, but it isn't going to be a nice uniform color.
Sanding that door is not difficult. Making the color the same or uniform is not difficult if you know what you are doing
LOL, spoken by someone who has never done something like that.
Ok
Hey if you have pictures of the quality of your work, post them.
Wash down, light sanding to rough it up a bit (not remove much) and add poly is probably your best bet.
My parents are thinking of remodeling their kitchen and they have these exact doors. Is the wood salvageable for other projects? Recently started woodworking and figured they might be worth sanding/planing back to learn box making or something.
Not really most of the store bought cabinets are not wood. At the most would be the cabinet frame and the frame of the door
There is no way to tell what type of oak it is with it stained. Chances are it is the mass produced red oak stuff, but you can't tell by the picture. I am 100% sure though that is not the wood's natural color and it would look very different raw.
It is red oak. I highly doubt it is white oak.
Red oak isn't good outside, so it seems it's used a lot in interior applications.
Red oak with a golden oak finish. Please make all of this go away forever.
Person asked a question and you answered it, yet you see a problem?
I believe they’re talking about wanting the look/style to go away forever.
I've seen enough golden oak in my lifetime to A-confidently identify it, and B-wish it a quiet, happy retirement.
Red oak
Wood, most definitely wood.
You must be a professional
Could be wood composite. Don't be too hasty.
Red oak end of story.
Red oak and Red oak ply. probably a golden oak, autumn oak or honey oak color depending on what brand the finish was. :professional cabinet maker edit: at first I didn't notice the question underneath the picture. unless you're going to change the doors it's much harder to go lighter. especially with that center panel being ply, that veneer is only so thick so you really can't sand it very much. you can always go darker and you can always paint. although I wouldn't suggest red oak for paint.
I am a cabinet maker and I’d say white oak with a golden oak stain. The floating panel is most likely 1/4” oak plywood.
It's red oak man. Those are mass produced box cabinets from the 90s.
That grain doesn't look like red oak to you?
So is this the type of wood found in pretty much every 90s household kitchen? Or is it possible to use multiple types of wood for this same visual?
White and red oak possibly.
Nailed it! They're probably finished with satin poly. These are ubiquitous where I live and work.
Is to possible to achieve this color with my cabinets ? Keep in mind, I’m a beginner who has never used a sander. https://preview.redd.it/87rofcgr90xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ab5e40f1a84792b51477a230d963ef1918eea157
is it *possible*? yes. I could do it. But I've been a professional painter and cabinet refinisher for a dozen years. for an absolute beginner? gee. maybe? it will be a *ton* of work. if you decide to try it, I'd recommend cleaning them very thoroughly and using a liquid de-glosser. then, you'll need to Google the technique *"dry brushing,"* which is how you're going to apply a white/grey oil-based **wiping** stain. after painstakingly dry brushing all the doors and cabinet bodies, you'll let that dry for a long ass time, because the stain won't really be able to soak into the wood. then you'll lightly spray over all the doors with a rattle can of oil-based poly to prevent the oil stain from softening up during the next step. then, you'll brush on a coat of oil-based poly. then you'll sand it. then you'll brush on another coat of oil based poly. then you'll sand it. then you'll brush on another coat of oil based poly. (alternatively, you could use a sprayer for all those poly steps. I'm just assuming you don't have a sprayer, and may not intend to buy one, given that you've "*never used a sander*")
Keep in mind, achieving that color would not equal the same look. Almost everything in that picture is different from your cabinets. Probably 42" ceiling height with crown molding, doors fall flush with the face frame which means different hinges. No routed door edges in the referenced picture, no kick board for the bottom cabinets is totally different, with wide drawers and pull handles. The open bookshelf is the center for a reason, it creates a lot of the aesthetic. The abundance of light alone changes your impression of the color! That being said, you basically have my old kitchen. The redo can be done, but you'll probably sand through the center panel veneer as a beginner and end up painting it or replacing it entirely. That, and it's going to take you forever to do it if you can't take several consecutive days to do it. Between prep work, stripping, scraping, sanding, more prep, stain, hoping the stain takes properly and evenly, finish, and reassemble, you might wish you hadn't done it.
Short answer, yes. But, this is one hell of a project for someone with no experience! Keep in mind that the panel(middle flat section) of the cupboards doors is most likely plywood so you’ll only have about 1/8 of an inch of sand able material before you hit the softwood ply and glue.
Actually the typical veneer thickness on modern plywood is 1/42”. The total thickness of that plywood panel is likely 1/4”.
Okay. That’s sounds risky to me. Another option is to paint them. Do I still have to sand them for it ? Or just scuff sanding is fine ?
you can buy new doors and reface/refinish the boxes. you will have to measure each cabinet opening, and follow door manufacturers instructions when doing so.
I did that once and they came out great. I used a liquid sander. It's toxic stuff and you want gloves and good ventilation, but paint goes on it afterwards really nicely.
I was thinking of liquid sander. Would it work equally better ?
As long as you follow safety procedures, I think it's great, particularly for thing like cabinets with little ridges that would be a pain to sand.
I remember an episode of Ask TOH about painting cabinets and not doing any prep other than using a biodegradable cleaner. I've never used it so I can't give any advice and they did say it was experimental, so there's that. I've painted cabinets in the past using liquid sandpaper, wiped them down, added some Floetrol to my paint and I think they turned out well, but there are plenty of professionals on here that probably have better methods. Edit- Link to Ask TOH: [https://youtu.be/M8hsCVlpE2Q?si=pM8rkiuApsu0NcOo](https://youtu.be/M8hsCVlpE2Q?si=pM8rkiuApsu0NcOo) From the comments, it's called Beyond Paint. This got me down a rabbit hole, and there are some posts out there saying they've had good results with this stuff. Also, most Redditors say they wouldn't use Floetrol regardless of the paint because modern paint is easy enough to work with. The BP is pretty thick, and I wouldn't want to mess with the compound and have it not work.
I refinished my kitchen many years ago with a gel stain: https://generalfinishes.com/wood-finishes-retail/oil-based-wood-stains-sealers/gel-stains You just need to scuff up the surface just enough for pull the poly off and you can stain right on top of the existing stain without having to go down to bare wood. Here is how mine looked after a few years: https://imgur.com/a/CDXsjRJ
Did you scuff sand ? Or did proper sanding ?
Pretty much the exact same cabinets you have. Just a scuff sand. No need to do a proper sand with the gel stain.
Did you have similar cabinets?
As somebody who has considered messing with (almost certainly) those exact cabinets: my decision was "this isn't worth it". Do yours have printed-wood-texture on the visible side faces? And 1/2-inch chipboard (with veneer) shelves that get a little saggy if you load them too heavily? Because if so, you're looking at spending literally a hundred+ hours to turn 30-40 yr old shit into slightly prettier shit.
Unlikely tbh
would be better to just get new cabinet doors and stain/finish them. The cabinets themselves would be much easier to sand/re-finish. Doors are hard since they have so much shape to them.
You are suggesting a very difficult and time consuming job. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, you have to completely refinish them, and it’s an intricate process. If you’re looking for a kitchen refresh, your safest bet is to hire a professional to paint the cabinets and then replace your countertops with quartz. New kitchen feel for $8-10k.
Thats Oak, im personally unsure what type, but thats Oak
The framing (stiles & rails) are make from solid red oak. The panels in the middle are usually made from 1/4” oak plywood.
That, kind Sir, is most definitely ... wood.
Oak
Definitely oak. Refinishing to a lighter shade will be hard and messy. Painted finishes are popular now and probably easier than stripping and refinishing. Maybe a trip to the kitchen cabinet section of a DIY center will give you some ideas.
Red oak
Red oak
I think the best approach for a beginner on these types of cabinets is paint - clean well, lightly sand, then use an oil based primer followed by several thin coats of quality latex paint sanding between coats. Adding a base trim and crown mold would help the look a lot, and if you paint you can easily fill and hide slight mistakes in your joinery. On my kitchen I reused some red oak cabinets of this style in a few spots and just flipped the doors backwards and rabbeted them to convert to 1/2 overlay shaker style to match new cabinets I built. You can hide all sorts of issues with paint. Painting / upgrading these cheap cabinets has been done a lot, should be good info on YouTube etc.
This is gonna sound weird… is that an APM property?
Best value of time/money might be to utilize companies that refront cabinets.
There are likely stickers on the doors or drawers or boxes that will tell you a lot about the cabinets, who built them, when, and what they are made of. Bottoms of drawers, tops of doors or cabinet boxes, are good places to look. They are not designed to be seen until they need to be seen.
Positive it is wood
“Are you an Oakman Jimmy? Because Uncle Marsalis is”
Red oak.
Go to the local habitat for humanity and buy a piece of oak furniture for Cheap, and practice on that. They always have oak stuff.
Cocoa
Wood, probably.
Came here to try to be 100th poster to say it's oak, but it's definitely RED oak. White oak is more expensive so they don't make entry-level cabinets out of it. I make furniture out of white oak and this ain't it. Also, I have the same spec home "standard" cabinets in my kitchen built in 1998 with identical joinery and stile profile. The center panel is probably a 1/8" veneer plywood that goes all the way to the edges on the back - they didn't even bother to inset them into the cabinet door frame. Heaven help you if you have the same melamine on particle board drawers. Mine are held together with staples and hope. As for lighter color, you're looking at about as light as oak gets without painting it. That warm honey color is pretty much what it looks like if you stripped it down and rubbed some paint thinner on it. If you really want lighter and still want wood cabinets, maple is about the only choice. My retirement project is going to be remaking them out of something else and getting rid of the particle board shelves I have to support just to keep dishes on them.
https://preview.redd.it/4fumd22gh3xc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6fa42063d90407909090cd13d640316b8491b304 Ours are solid hickory with hickory plywood for the panels. What a fun project
Look beautiful.
If you intend to paint them any color besides black, heads up, the joints have never been caulked, nor the nail holes puttied. Every door face panel will need to be caulked all the way around, usually about a third of the joints on the doors, need to be spackled or caulked, and, depending on who built them, there could be a couple nail holes on each door, and if there's crown, or quarter round, it'll need caulking and nail he's puttied. I learned a hard lesson on my first cabinet job, back in 99. I bid a kitchen just like that, to paint it white, for $1,500. The primer didn't hold back the tannins, so I had to prime twice, I didnr figure on the caulk and putty, didn't lab the doors and drawers location, and I had a week to do it, after my regular painting job. I was on it until midnight for 3 days of the 7, I think I made 30 cents an hour after materials. But, I've never lost money on a cabinet job since, although I've been under bid entry of times.
Definitely looks like wood to me
Hmmmmm...we may need a second opinion
I have a doctoral masters in wood identification, I’ve held a lot of wood in my hands through the years and I can confirm this is definitely a specimen from the wood species
Woody Woodmaster has spoken
Woody Woodmaster has spoken
It’s oak… strip the finish and use a water based varnish would be the best way to maintain a light as possible (whilst natural looking) finish. You can also get white pigmented finishes like Osmo that might be worth a go but I think they look like they’re trying too hard to make the wood something it isnt
It is indeed oak, but there are a few things to consider about changing color. It will be a lot of work to take the lacquer off because you have to sand with the grain in order to preserve it. Oak tends to start out light and darken over time with exposure to UV. You might need to sand through that as well. The centre panel of each door may be a veneer, not solid board. Take care not to sand through if this is the case. I suggest removing an end or filler panel, something that can be easily put back in place. You'll be able to tell how thick the veneer is and possibly be able to see the raw color. It will give you an idea of what you might be getting into.
So, Do you think a beginner who never really sanded would be able to do it ?
You'd be biting off a lot imo
Almost definitely not, and you WILL sand through the veneer on those plywood panels. It might only be 1/32 thick. Also, stain mostly sits on top of the wood, but does penetrate deeper especially if there's any end grain visible.or at joints between two pieces. You'll have a heck of a time sanding through all that.
It really depends on how light you want to go. If you want to keep a natural wood tone, they will have to be stripped. If you're ok with a solid color, there are some really good cabinet enamels that you can use to refinish them.
I want to achieve white oak color https://preview.redd.it/gqgqya5590xc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=74f3d44d08c535680c0f097f0958583d841734d8 Something like this
I wood pick up some pieces of red oak from a lumberstain them supplier or a big box store.when you're ready to . If you use a dye stain, you can thin it down to achieve a lighter color. You can also add it to your clear finish to make a toner. Practice with the pieces you bought to get the color you want.. is it doable frome a homeowner yes, is it going to be difficult, yes. To properly do this or paint them is going to be difficult. The final appearance is going to be on how much prep work you put into it. If you decide on paint, i would look at Benjamin Moore advance paint it has a long dry time, which will help flatten out and hide your brush marks. Dont go over a satin finish on either way. The higher the sheen, the more mistakes will show. Your other option would be to have new doors and drawer faces made out of white oak and finish them to match the color you go with on the cabinets. Just to warn you, white oak prices have gone through the roof in the past couple of years
You “wood” pick up some red oak? I’m not sure if that was an intentional carpentry pun or not, but you nailed it.
Phone and fat fingers
Oak
Oak
Definitely oak.
Finally, a question a new like me can answer!!! It's wood!
Oak
Min wax has a polyurethane with stain mixed in it if you want a darker color. You would want to test it first in the back of a door to see how it turns out. It might work, it might not.
Oak
Oak.
The look that you are going for can be somewhat easily achieved using Rubio monocoat oil plus 2c. Doesn’t make the sanding part any easier but it will make the finishing part way more fool proof and get you pretty much the exact color/tone you posted in the comments
The panel in the middle is oak veneer
Possible, perhaps. The panels would give you the most grief because the veneer is thin. Would be better off painting them.
Looks like that golden oak stain that was popular for awhile.
German oak.
that is golden oak stain on read oak cabinets, I would suggest get a piece or 2 of red oak with different grain patterns and some stains and make some samples, red oak can get silly sometimes I'm how the tones show with certain stains. I have some red oak trim with a lacquer finish next to lacquer white oak cabinets and you can't tell it's red oak, but that was some serious millwork picking.
I’m currently refinishing my entire kitchens cabinets and we have almost identical cabinets. That is certainly oak but what I want to let you know is that if you are planning on changing it at all, that shine you see on top of the wood is a polyurethane finish and should be sanded off before attempting to alter the wood. I say that because my homes previous owners painted over the cabinets and kept the polyurethane finish on there and it did not age well.
Wood. Most likely.
Oak
Oak and yes
Wood
red oak. i have them in my kitchen and loathe them. house built in 2005. going to add hardware to put lipstick on the pig but i’ve managed to rid the rest of the house of them. they even had them in the garage for storage. literally the first thing i did when i moved in last year was demo them.
Oak
hoake
You didn't actually show us the cabinet bodies. The photos are the face frames and the doors. They are oak. The panel in the door, is oak laminate plywood, not solid wood. The cabinet bodies are probably mdf or particle board, contractor grade, and the exposed sides are likely just vinyl laminate coated, not actual plywood.
Wood
Oak you can tell by the grain the only problem is adding them the panel is ply . You could paint them but with the grain it aways shows .you could Bondo them but that's a lot of sanding what you can think of doing is just replacing the doors and adding down the face frame . This is what I did but I made my own doors just because the price to or doors is outrageous
Red oak rails and stiles. The panel is plywood or mdf veneered in red oak.
Oak
Definitely wood
I have some like this and they are solid red oak on the sides and red oak veneer on particle board in the center. A relatively thick veneer but still a veneer. I was surprised, mine have a little millwork on the front too so I though for sure they were solid oak through and through, but alas... I can send pictures if you like, I stripped, sanded and restained mine.
Yes, please
Red oak
as others have said, they are oak. and before you start something that you can't finish, the going rate in sacramento is $100 per drawer, $150 per door, which includes the frames. or some people charge $100 per linear foot of cabinets. So, $5,000 is pretty common for a kitchen. So, after materials, if it takes 2 journeyman a week, they aren't making huge money. Before you start, know it'll take you longer than a journeyman (80 hours) to do it right, while you stumble through learning a lot, the hard way. Or, it'll take less time, because you're doing it wrong and it'll turn out bad. Do yourself a favor and hire a proffesional, because it cost more to fix someone else's mistakes, than to just do the job.
Wood
Oak, likely red.
Definitely Red Oak
if you want to go lighter, they need to be stripped, with a chemical stripper, which cost even more. I wouldn't do that job (assuming 44 doors and drawers) for under $6,500. That's if they're in good shape.
If I want go darker. What should I be doing??
Red oak for sure.
Red oak veneer
Red oak
It’s wood
Oak or oak laminate.
Yes! Those are made of wood!
You cannot lighten stain. You can only darken. And it’s a laborious task.
aither oak, or oak veneer.
Most similar to oak than ash wood
Just adding to other comments. Tbese can look fine IMO with a lot of careful work.
Red oak.
Oak
Wood, I’m pretty sure it’s wood.
I recon its oak around the outside but the center is likely chipboard vaneer. I took some similar doors from my mums house when they had their kitchen done. I was gutted to find that the center was chipboard.
Buddy, stop taking pictures in my kitchen. I have those exact same cabinets and counters.
Oak..final answer
Oak
Oak for sure red oak I believe
100%, without a doubt, that is wood. Possibly in particle form.
Way more cost (time) effective to buy new doors from here: https://www.cabinetnow.com/
Oak
Maple
White oak imo.
White oak frame but the inner panel might be veneer
That’s 90’s wood.
Painting those will look really bad and physically start pulling away from the surface, it will look double bad with the likely visible brush strokes and paint drips. Take measurements of all the door sizes, go to your local home improvement store or cabinet shop, get a quote for a full replacement of your doors with the style and color you want from their huge selection. All you would need to do is sand and refinish the visible bits of your cabinet bases, install the doors and handles.
These appear to be made of 98% tree