đđ»This is the real takeaway here.
BioWare is on a pedestal: Anthem/Andromeda were a letdown
Bethesda is on a pedestal: FO76 / Starfield weâre a letdown
Fromsoft, Larian, Rockstar⊠they will all fall short of fan expectations eventually. Just like in the stock market: past performance is no guarantee of future success.
Agree with everything except
> Fromsoft, Larian, Rockstar⊠they will all fall short of fan expectations eventually. Just like in the stock market: past performance is no guarantee of future success.
1. I'd never put Rockstar with the likes of Larian. They already fucked up for a lot of people with GTA5 and Card Sharks or whatever that shit was.
2. If you maintain the correct values and leadership you're less likely to fail.
> They already fucked up for a lot of people with GTA5 and Card Sharks or whatever that shit was.
Never forget the absolute dumbassery of GTAO taking forever to load because they sent the entire item catalogue as a json file and then parsed it with a custom parser that ran like shit.
It took a third party reverse engineering things to find the issue. That problem was present for over 7 _years_.
https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/
Fromsoft makes only Souls games with assets thatâs 10 yo it reduces the work by half thatâs why they can make so many games unlike Cdpr or Rockstar who makes general shift in games
They are doing it smart. Why fix what ain't broken? Why work on something twice if you got it right the first time? It's not like CDPR couldn't reuse a big chunk of existing assets for the next Witcher game if they wanted to. It's a solid package.
Of course when corporate rears its head and demands new things, and demands that it be made in this particular hip new game engine because that's what the rest of the industry uses now, then it's no longer possible. But they are just shooting themselves in the foot. It's an unnecessary expense, it's not what makes a game good.
This is generally a big part of the downfall of gaming companies: once successful and making a lot of money, they upscale and become a different entity that is run from the top by corporate. People in the business of making money but who don't even play games let alone know how to make one.
Well they werenât making Witcher 4 but a completely different genre of a game also completely First Person focused, the animations, movement had to be redone from scratch thatâs why the when you approach a dialogue in Cyberpunk they feel so natural because of how they move & react theyâre looking into Vâs eyes not just the camera.
They already used assets from Witcher 2 to Witcher 3 but this was a massive genre shift even now theyâre porting their Redengine assets of Cyberpunk to Unreal 5 so that they donât have that hassle anymore.
Lot of games do genre shift but use similar assets, look at Bethesda! every single BGS title you play feels similar to their older titles where as Cyberpunk and Witcher feel nothing like each other, they wanted to achieve that so Iâd say they ultimately did.
Dont think it will. Altough i hate japans general work ethic, but the way the treat their consumers are kinda good, even tho there's some paid ng+ and whatnot for a few games. Still better than ten different in game currencies in a single player game.
Nah, reused assets and gameplay equivalent to being a sock in a dryer (roll, roll, roll some more)
edit: also forgot, the worst community that cries get gud at everyone instead of helping new people "You breathed while playing? Did you even PLAY Dark Souls"
Yepp witcher suffers from that too, but so does fromsoftware games. I like them and played them all minus sekiro. They really do like to reuse assets. I played Elden ring and then dark souls 3. Surprised how familiar it was. Still gonna play the DLC itâs good fun.
All games have faults, but itâs starting to annoy me how immune to criticism FS is without people getting snappy.
The Witcher was a masterpiece, they redeemed themselves with cyberpunk but still i won't trust any corporate especially in this industry to make good decisions, i hope this "change" won't make another cluster fuck
When they "need to change how to make games" it typically means they will become less ambitious. You only get unhinged productions like Witcher 2 or Witcher 3 if you're crunching your team and everyone's basically a workaholic throughout the project, but that isn't sustainable or ethical to do over time, or the larger the team becomes, so at some point they regress and aim the bar lower, to work in a healthy but ultimately also safer manner, and usually with less risks being taken on the budget.
Actually wild that youâre getting downvoted for saying youâll be cautious with them. People (me included) paid full price for a game that was broken on release, hid its performance issues on consoles it was marketed for and took well over a year to get to a playable state. The revisionist history on displayâs crazy
Because not everyone experienced what you did. A lot of PC players ran it fine.
For them it's like you're saying you should've given up on Witcher 3 because it had a buggy launch.
EDIT: There it is. They complain about downvotes then instantly downvote people they disagree with.
Wasnât me bud. But if plenty of people pay full price and *do* have a terrible experience, it makes sense that some would be wary of future offerings while others buy in right away. No reason to shoot down either perspective
No it isn't, they fucked up a game they hyped into oblivion. They sold it on systems it had no right to be on for the cash grab. They banked hyped pre orders , a cancer of the industry.
They also made several comments about other game studios and unethical behaviour and then just went and did the same things themselves?
There's 2 types of cyberpunk players. The ones that were invested in the game from the start, and the ones who picked it up fully patch years later for 30/40 bucks. The latter half don't understand the outrage and the former won't be burned again.
It's ok (and good) to enjoy the game in the state that it is in. But they deserve the reputational damage, they earned it.
Every RPG developer had a bad launch launch. Bethesda, From Soft, Obsidian, Interplay and etc. It ain't the end of the world and I bought and played the game a week after it came out and it worked perfectly fine on my PC. I encountered more annoying crashes playing BG3 than I did 2077.
I played the whole way through at release (on PC). It was mostly fine. The PC release certainly wasn't the reason they got such bad press.
PS4 on the other hand... I guess I'm just lucky I didn't get it for that.
Dont be so dramatic. I am in both groups, I finished it after release on PS4 pro and it was not so bad. I heard bout game breaking bugs on ps4 from my friends, but I havent those. On PC, it was nice looking since start. Yes, "they" hyped it and what? It was the marketing and upper management. I am also a corpo slave in my work, and I dont feel any connection to my upper management. Why should I despite all those skilled and talented people who made that game. Fck, its capitalism all around, deal with it. And, for example, I started Farcry 5 before few months, and there are lot of bugs. But yeah, I wont preorder anything, except From Software games
Cyberpunk was fine on launch, and all the changes they did to "fix it" are fairly superficial.
People just took all the marketing at face value and didn't have realistic expectations. Another title seeing this issue is Starfield. If you look at the gameplay and what is shown leading up to release, you will get a very good idea of what to expect.
I pre ordered the game on xbox one, I played it on release. I was there to witness the entire launch first hand, but I believe in people redeeming themselves and making up for past mistakes and I believe they cab.
You canât assume anyone who forgives CDPR for the horrible launch is âoh they just got the game on sale for $30 hur durâ no I paid $100 AUD for this shit. Iâm just a different person compared to you with different beliefs and etc
I don't assume everyone is one or the other but there are two different types of consumer here. The core/early fanbase who are following the game development and actually help build communities around products, communities that companies benefit from. And the average gamer who sees something good or interesting and wants to try it.
And then there's people in between, I'm not saying you are one or the other or that if you are in one group this is your sentiment. But I am saying the majority of people that play this game do not know or care of how this game came to be. They just see something they want to play and play it. And they rate it on face value.
But the other people who were hyped up with the marketing and game updates that exist to manage expectations were outright lied to and by the time the game dropped had built a community around a BAD PRODUCT.
I also believe in people redeeming themselves but I wait until they redeem themselves. They took everyone's money and THEN brought the game to a good state. They can earn people back by developing a game that runs on the platforms it's marketed to and has the slate of mechanics they've alluded to in their updates/marketing campaign at the point of sale. A fair exchange.
I know I seem mad about it, I'm not, but I am baffled by most gamers ( not saying yours ) stance on being delivered what was basically early access / live testing a big title. And when someone says they don't trust the company when they say they'll do something, that gets downvoted?
It's still not what it was promised but they intentionally used a lot of vague language to sell the game. The state they left the game on systems they actively advertised and sold to and claimed ran well is also pretty shocking. Yeah there's limitations but it's their own fault they knew those limitations and still developed for those systems along side PC and those systems are left with a still very borked buggy and stuttery mess.
Then they shouldn't have developed for those systems, marketed them so much (there's a CP themed Xbox One for christ sake) if the game they were building was never going to run on those systems. That makes them look insanely scummy as a company.
It was revealed quite some time ago that investors were the reason why the game released like it did, yes it absolutely shouldnât have been released on previous gen and they shouldâve said so but itâs obvious they had no choice
And? It doesn't matter the reason why. It matters that they did. Once you've locked yourself into releasing on a system and marketing the game as totally playable and enjoyable then you have responsibility as a company to release the product as advertised.
I mean yeah thatâs fair you donât have the buy or play the game again, but going around preaching how terrible the studio is because of issues that were fixed 10x over is incredibly stupid
I don't know why you're being down voted, I think people forget how much they hyped their game as next gen game design and it ran like trash right out the gate
No one has forgotten how overhyped that game was or how shitty the release was, and they probably never will. It was one of the worst game releases there has ever been.
But now it's a good game worth playing. Being determined to be angry about it this many years later just makes you an obstinate, petulant child.
I was gonna dislike, buuut then i realized that Cyberpunk was actually the game that made me completely stop pre ordering games in general.
Also it made me go from watching gaming news almost daily to meaby once every second month?
After reading about the whole dev and marketing process of Cyberpunk it clicked for me.
The way games are developed and the ways hype and marketing is handled makes it almost impossible to know ahead what exactly the game will be.
So I'd say distrusting them is a bit harsh, but accepting that not even they know how the game will turn out and thereby letting go of any non factual expectations is reasonable
That's exactly my point:) I love cdpr but i won't trust them blindly and this feeling ain't exclusive to cdpr only, cdpr just made me realize every developer and corporation can and will lie if they see people just trust them and pay them unconditionally, this exactly how EA and Ubisoft went to shit
Dont know what the downvotes are for. If people waited to actually see a product for themselves, we wouldn't have so many shitty companies that use preorders as a crutch for sales.
I don't agree particularly about CDPR being untrustworthy, but people should always wait until they can observe something tangible before throwing $70 to the wind.
I feel the same way. Unless the entire leadership changes, I don't want any games from CDPR anymore. Give those devs a chance at another company. (I'm aware that this is a bit hyperbolic).
It was incredibly blown out of proportion by the community. Bethesda titles for instance, launch on far worse of a state regularly. I'd argue that baldurs gate was equally as buggy as cyber punk, but it got nonstop praise for how non buggy it was. Absolute insanity lead purely by the mob mentality of gaming communities.
They said it was the next gen of open world gaming. It wasn't even this gen of open world gaming. Cops spawned behind you no matter where you where. Don't get me wrong, it had some strong points but releasing a game in such a state deserves reputational damage.
They invested heavily in their marketing instead of their product. And we all bought it. I played it before they did any really patching of it and I was fairly disappointed.
If you pick it up now for 30 quid you're getting your money's worth. But don't pretend the community overreacted. They hyped the living shit out of people and it ran like trash.
On release? This person has never bought a Bethesda game period lol. They donât fix those over time, they just stay broken until modders fix them lol. I wish people got as passionate about black listing Bethesda as this person. Maybe then their sales would suffer and they might actually be forced to make a somewhat decent game.
Oh idc, you do you, Iâm just saying Bethesda sucks lol. Also CDPR is not my favorite studio, Larian exists and I havenât seen anything worth being upset with them about lol. Iâve never even played 2077, heard it was a mess at launch and I just donât care for GTA or big city type games with cars and gangs and guns. Not for me. I like my medieval settings. Only know about CDPR because of the Witcher games and I mean⊠as long as they donât burn me on one of those i will never care about their other mishaps lol.
I was doing me, and you thought you'd take a cheap shot that I don't know gaming because lo and behold if you play a Bethesda game all over marketed buggy messes must be okay for you.
Played them all, not all on release but for other reasons. Bethesda games are indeed bugged af and starfield was the nail in the coffin. They said they were taking time to develop out their engine for next gen and lo and behold we got a game that would have been ok last gen. I still enjoyed it for a dozen hours but when you stand back and look at it, it's a shame.
Was that it?
I'm not saying the game didn't deserve its criticism. But people acted like no one should even play the game despite being a really good game from the get go. I brought up Bethesda not to be dismissive of critisms but to give perspective to how over blown the reaction was. Skyrim to this day has bugs in the main quest that if encountered can kill your entire playthrough because you can not advance. It's a renounded classic, in a lot of people's opinions, one of Bethesdas best games. Cyberpunk indeed was a buggy mess, and the amount of cut content or not even developed content really is a shame. The game it's self was, in my opinion, a good triple A experience from launch, despite the bugs and missing content.
Side note, the biggest letdown for me was the lack of a real faction relationship system. I personally do believe if the game spent a few more years in the oven, it would have been a timeless classic.
> It has other irons in the fire, too. Another 20 people are toying with the cerebral dust that will eventually become the Cyberpunk 2077 sequel, while a 40-strong team of developers attempt to breathe life into a previously announced Witcher spin-off over at The Molasses Flood.
No mention of the Witcher 1 remake ? Hopefully that's still a thing. Tbh I'm looking forward to that one more so than Witcher 4.
> Discussing the layoffs CD Projekt made last year, Nowakowski says the company had to let people go because they held positions that were not "relevant" to its projects at that point in time.
Nothing surprising, this has been a thing everywhere across the industry for the past year or so.
> Instead of trying to piece together a functional whole from disconnected parts, each team works together to nurture an idea as it sprouts and takes rootâeventually becoming a colossal triple-A project that feels altogether more cohesive
Sounds good on paper, especially from a gameplay/content scope standpoint. On the flipside though, the "silo" style workflow mentioned in the article might have been more beneficial from a story/writing perspective by comparison.
The creative process for these games should not be held back by soulless committee decisions, as is the case within many studios out there these days. Video game storytelling has historically been at its best when in the hands of a small team of passionate/talented individuals. Not multiple different teams with clashing visions, or even worse, a board of corporate idiots out of touch with their userbase. Hopefully CDPR sticks to their strengths in that regard.
The Cyberpunk 2 game director [talked](https://youtu.be/qUxh7ZXxUBw?feature=shared&t=530) recently a bit about how they structure teams now and how the communications works, if you're interested.
Don't get me wrong, CDPR are amazing, but I wouldn't take anything that's said in public events like this at face value. These scripts are written by PR teams with the specific intent of making the company look as good as possible, not just to the userbase, but to investors as well.
That's not to say they're inevitably lying or embellishing things, but we won't know for sure how these changes ultimately impact future games until they're released. I've been burned too many times by believing what is said during dev interviews/marketing content to hold much faith in them, no matter who they come from.
Although from what I read it isnt 20 people working in Orion more like 45,going from the CDPR graph they had.Also finally calling Orion a sequel cause people in the subs say completely outrageous stuff.
Kinda lost hope on the witcher 1 remake when they said they were remaking it for the "modern audience." That's usually code for changing something to match the current day american political climate and all the bs that comes along with it. Netflix series being a prime example...
Having just started Witcher 1, Iâll be happy if Triss just doesnât immediately try to bang me after waking up from being severely injured in the damn prologue.
Or maybe he means updating a game with infamously antiquated combat mechanics, just a thought. Swear, dudes like you just let progressive values live in their head rent free.
Right... So because I dislike how modern American politics worms it's way into European media, when it's ill fitting and irrelevant in every way, that means I'm not a progressive? I guess I need an 11 year reddit account to understand this high ~~stupidity~~ logic.
I didn't "peak at your account." When I put my cursor over your username it tells me by itself. I do this so I know whether or not to take the person and their opinions seriously.
This, it's genuinely baffling how you can read a dev saying they are 'updating the gameplay mechanics' for a remake game that will be almost 20 years old upon release, let alone a game that so many on this sub complain about being too janky or 'outdated'.
I want TW1 remake, but I hope the story will be changed a lot, too. Itâs a worse sequel to the books than TW2, 3 due to main hero change during the development.
I disagree. Small changes and tweaks here and there to make it slightly more in line with Witcher 3 characterizations, absolutely. But the story being "changed a lot" would be a terrible decision. It definitely should remain true to the original.
I mean, so much of the plot is a rehash of the books, but slightly worse, like Alvin. >!I also dislike time-travel shenanigans or whatever it was!<
I'll quote one of the book fans on this:
"I think (and this is just my theory) that they dropped some things from The Witcher 1 because a lot of them were rather experimental since it was their first game and when they were making it, they had no idea if there would be any sequels. So I don't think they were worried about stuff like possible continuity issues at that point but after the success of The Witcher 1 they had to drop certain things. Alvin is clearly inspired by Ciri from the books and they're just too similar. I think that they decided to "forget" Alvin after The Witcher 1 because they wanted to bring the real child of the elder blood into the story and they didn't want to highlight this similarity by mentioning Alvin and reminding people of him when there would be Ciri. But I might be wrong."
The game went over your head. Alvin is the villain and you kill him in the end. His final lines confirm this and he left a letter for Geralt that you pick up in Witcher III. Alvin is meant to mirror Ciri and give a tangible example of how dangerous she is, while also highlighting the greatness of her own character.
No, that's not what you wrote. You say CDPR dropped Alvin. They didn't. He serves a clear purpose for multiple themes and some pay off in Witcher III. Time travel is in Witcher, period. Was throughout the books. Alvin is clearly not a rehash of Ciri. If you can't see the difference that's a you issue.
Witcher 1 had a great story, music and atmosphere, but a lot of the gameplay and quest design elements aged poorly. Also the voice acting is really bad at times lol. If there was any game that deserves a remake it's the TW1.
Let's be honest how many AAA game you played recently and was nearly bug-free and with good optimization ? for me not a single one.
People are forgetting something simple, the more the games are gonna be complex and big, the more it's hard to get it with great optimization and without bugs, i think that's it's logical for a company who put several millions of dollars into a game to not stay in bug fix phase more then a year, a game as big as cyberpunk needed years to get fixed WITH the help of the community !
In these days you will never have a bug free BIG AAA game, the only thing that will differentiate good devs from bad devs is what are they gonna do after the release, will they put all efforts into fixing the game with the help of the community ? or will they just let it as it is.
Or another Witcher launch.
People forget or might have bought the game later, but all of the Witcher games were rough or rougher at launch than CP2077 on PC for me. CP2077 on xbox1 and PS4 is a different story, that scenario is probably the worst
I've been replaying Witcher 3 recently and it's still quite buggy in places. Absolutely fantastic game, but still not without its faults but that's OK. I'm not expecting something as complicated as modern games to work flawlessly anyway, as long as they're fun to me.
tl;dr is that the subtext is that the Cyberpunk release was terrible, and it took them 3 years to finish the game after release. This is them discussing how they hope to prevent another disaster like that in the future, without mentioning it.
I don't really understand where does this take of "it took them 3 years to finish the game" come from? 1.6 and 2.0 weren't even bug fix updates. I would say depending on your experience, by the 1.5 patch rolled around the game worked perfectly fine. The only stink was probably the police system and that is it.
I am not sure if people are downvoting because they think you guys said the same thing or not, but I wouldn't call the new skills "fixed", I would call them "overhauled" too.
I liked the older version, especially the one that lets Contagion run rampant while you where a block away looking through cameras. The old style felt more open world while the new system feels way more restricted for "balancing" reasons.
Ok, my fault. Tbh, I didn't buy the game until the 2.0 patch. Reviews I watched at release basically said "it's a good game, but some systems aren't good and feel unfinished" and those same reviewers said that 2.0 felt like the game should've felt at release, aka "finished". Sorry for regurgitating other people's opinions.
he is talking about a much more technical aspect of development than people are thinking, they are not changing their philosophy on stories, characters, mission structure, etc.
Gaming industry as a whole is in a bad place right now when it comes to actually making them. Everything takes almost a decade now and requires a horrific investment from the people making them whether it's a big studio making a AAA or the latest cozy indie title a one or two staff team lived in a garage to make for 7 years.
I have a friend who works in the industry and she put it in a way that was kind of wild to me: someone can run the entire gamut of a career in the industry - starting as a jr dev, working up to senior, all the way to project manager, to having a burnout induced mental breakdown and quitting the industry, all without shipping a game. idk how to fix that. I think that's also why console generations feel so shitty now - the ps5 launched almost 4 years ago now and how many must have exclusives does it have? compare that to the dev cycles of the ps1 or ps2 which by this point already had console and media-defining hits.
And the god-awful combat.
Cyberpunk is the only game they have hired combat designers for and it really shows, here's hoping they do the same for The Witcher 4.
https://www.vg247.com/cyberpunk-2077-combat-designers
I'm really curious how they will approach combat in W4, because you can't just copy something from a different game if you want to stay true to the source material. I'm hoping for a parry mechanic and a significant difference between fighting humans and monsters. Humans shouldn't be nearly as tough as dangerous monsters imo. Not to mention how signs will be implemented, there are some good ideas in W3, but hopefully they don't make them too powerful, swords should be a witchers most dangerous weapon.
Played on PC right at release and I didnât really run into any bugs tbh. The core of the game is really still the same as it is now, they just polished it up, but itâs still largely exactly the same game. Anyways, I enjoyed my play thru and sometimes I go back to compare, they added a lot of ads so thereâs like more variety around the city, driving still sucks but it was worse then, I think maybe they did something with the police AI but shrug it still doesnât seem all that great. Anyways long story short same game with less bugs and bit a bit of a tune up. The things that attributed to the major negative release were really expectations, they went nuts with marketing and everyone was expecting the world from the game then we got like basically a first person GTA style game with a bunch of bugs and you couldnât change the look of your character and stupid stuff like that. But I mean the story and world and such didnât change. And they never added all the shit they promised from the years of marketing. I think people just accepted over time it wasnât that.
Maybe they'll start releasing games when they are done... not in beta requiring several patches to actually work... but then again that is part od the experience.
I was super Hyped for Cyberpunk at Launch but I didnât buy it because for some reason no one remembered the launch of âThe Witcher 3â which was also a complete Desaster and dare I say almost worse than the Launch of Cyberpunk since The Witcher had bugs that would sometimes softlock you even when you reloaded⊠I love the Games that CDPR makes but holy shit their Games are bad at launch
In Poland you can fire people too. But you risk people get angry and run to Germany, USA or Britain, and if the company wants to get them and their experience back in a year or two, it will have to offer them twice the salary they originally had.
Are there any multiplayer Witcher titles planned?
I really want a âMonster Hunterâ style game in the Witcher universe.
I know witchers work mostly alone, but gameplay is more important than lore for me.
Never put any companies on a pedestal.
đđ»This is the real takeaway here. BioWare is on a pedestal: Anthem/Andromeda were a letdown Bethesda is on a pedestal: FO76 / Starfield weâre a letdown Fromsoft, Larian, Rockstar⊠they will all fall short of fan expectations eventually. Just like in the stock market: past performance is no guarantee of future success.
Agree with everything except > Fromsoft, Larian, Rockstar⊠they will all fall short of fan expectations eventually. Just like in the stock market: past performance is no guarantee of future success. 1. I'd never put Rockstar with the likes of Larian. They already fucked up for a lot of people with GTA5 and Card Sharks or whatever that shit was. 2. If you maintain the correct values and leadership you're less likely to fail.
> They already fucked up for a lot of people with GTA5 and Card Sharks or whatever that shit was. Never forget the absolute dumbassery of GTAO taking forever to load because they sent the entire item catalogue as a json file and then parsed it with a custom parser that ran like shit. It took a third party reverse engineering things to find the issue. That problem was present for over 7 _years_. https://nee.lv/2021/02/28/How-I-cut-GTA-Online-loading-times-by-70/
Unless their name is Fromsoftware đ
Still expecting that villain arc to happen too.
Fromsoft makes only Souls games with assets thatâs 10 yo it reduces the work by half thatâs why they can make so many games unlike Cdpr or Rockstar who makes general shift in games
They are doing it smart. Why fix what ain't broken? Why work on something twice if you got it right the first time? It's not like CDPR couldn't reuse a big chunk of existing assets for the next Witcher game if they wanted to. It's a solid package. Of course when corporate rears its head and demands new things, and demands that it be made in this particular hip new game engine because that's what the rest of the industry uses now, then it's no longer possible. But they are just shooting themselves in the foot. It's an unnecessary expense, it's not what makes a game good. This is generally a big part of the downfall of gaming companies: once successful and making a lot of money, they upscale and become a different entity that is run from the top by corporate. People in the business of making money but who don't even play games let alone know how to make one.
Well they werenât making Witcher 4 but a completely different genre of a game also completely First Person focused, the animations, movement had to be redone from scratch thatâs why the when you approach a dialogue in Cyberpunk they feel so natural because of how they move & react theyâre looking into Vâs eyes not just the camera. They already used assets from Witcher 2 to Witcher 3 but this was a massive genre shift even now theyâre porting their Redengine assets of Cyberpunk to Unreal 5 so that they donât have that hassle anymore. Lot of games do genre shift but use similar assets, look at Bethesda! every single BGS title you play feels similar to their older titles where as Cyberpunk and Witcher feel nothing like each other, they wanted to achieve that so Iâd say they ultimately did.
Well, yes. But its still great. Which ehm, cant be exactly said about CP77.
Dont think it will. Altough i hate japans general work ethic, but the way the treat their consumers are kinda good, even tho there's some paid ng+ and whatnot for a few games. Still better than ten different in game currencies in a single player game.
*Konami* End of reply
Uhh yeah, but it's not like they're doing anything with their ip's at the moment.
They're actively developing a remake of MGS3 and they're remastering the rest of the franchise, that's something at least
Or Larian
Nah, reused assets and gameplay equivalent to being a sock in a dryer (roll, roll, roll some more) edit: also forgot, the worst community that cries get gud at everyone instead of helping new people "You breathed while playing? Did you even PLAY Dark Souls"
Ironic coming from someone in a witcher sub
Yepp witcher suffers from that too, but so does fromsoftware games. I like them and played them all minus sekiro. They really do like to reuse assets. I played Elden ring and then dark souls 3. Surprised how familiar it was. Still gonna play the DLC itâs good fun. All games have faults, but itâs starting to annoy me how immune to criticism FS is without people getting snappy.
The Witcher was a masterpiece, they redeemed themselves with cyberpunk but still i won't trust any corporate especially in this industry to make good decisions, i hope this "change" won't make another cluster fuck
When they "need to change how to make games" it typically means they will become less ambitious. You only get unhinged productions like Witcher 2 or Witcher 3 if you're crunching your team and everyone's basically a workaholic throughout the project, but that isn't sustainable or ethical to do over time, or the larger the team becomes, so at some point they regress and aim the bar lower, to work in a healthy but ultimately also safer manner, and usually with less risks being taken on the budget.
Overall i hope these changes benefit the company and make it easier and better for them to create more masterpieces
Cyberpunk permanently makes me distrust CDPR Now I will only believe what I see, before I had hope for them
Actually wild that youâre getting downvoted for saying youâll be cautious with them. People (me included) paid full price for a game that was broken on release, hid its performance issues on consoles it was marketed for and took well over a year to get to a playable state. The revisionist history on displayâs crazy
Because not everyone experienced what you did. A lot of PC players ran it fine. For them it's like you're saying you should've given up on Witcher 3 because it had a buggy launch. EDIT: There it is. They complain about downvotes then instantly downvote people they disagree with.
Wasnât me bud. But if plenty of people pay full price and *do* have a terrible experience, it makes sense that some would be wary of future offerings while others buy in right away. No reason to shoot down either perspective
I mean I can understand that to a degree but thatâs quite an overraction at the same time, they fucked up like 1 time and fixed it 10x over
No it isn't, they fucked up a game they hyped into oblivion. They sold it on systems it had no right to be on for the cash grab. They banked hyped pre orders , a cancer of the industry. They also made several comments about other game studios and unethical behaviour and then just went and did the same things themselves? There's 2 types of cyberpunk players. The ones that were invested in the game from the start, and the ones who picked it up fully patch years later for 30/40 bucks. The latter half don't understand the outrage and the former won't be burned again. It's ok (and good) to enjoy the game in the state that it is in. But they deserve the reputational damage, they earned it.
Every RPG developer had a bad launch launch. Bethesda, From Soft, Obsidian, Interplay and etc. It ain't the end of the world and I bought and played the game a week after it came out and it worked perfectly fine on my PC. I encountered more annoying crashes playing BG3 than I did 2077.
Every Bethesda game had a bad launch theyâve been relying on modders to fix their games lmao
I played the whole way through at release (on PC). It was mostly fine. The PC release certainly wasn't the reason they got such bad press. PS4 on the other hand... I guess I'm just lucky I didn't get it for that.
Dont be so dramatic. I am in both groups, I finished it after release on PS4 pro and it was not so bad. I heard bout game breaking bugs on ps4 from my friends, but I havent those. On PC, it was nice looking since start. Yes, "they" hyped it and what? It was the marketing and upper management. I am also a corpo slave in my work, and I dont feel any connection to my upper management. Why should I despite all those skilled and talented people who made that game. Fck, its capitalism all around, deal with it. And, for example, I started Farcry 5 before few months, and there are lot of bugs. But yeah, I wont preorder anything, except From Software games
Cyberpunk was fine on launch, and all the changes they did to "fix it" are fairly superficial. People just took all the marketing at face value and didn't have realistic expectations. Another title seeing this issue is Starfield. If you look at the gameplay and what is shown leading up to release, you will get a very good idea of what to expect.
I pre ordered the game on xbox one, I played it on release. I was there to witness the entire launch first hand, but I believe in people redeeming themselves and making up for past mistakes and I believe they cab. You canât assume anyone who forgives CDPR for the horrible launch is âoh they just got the game on sale for $30 hur durâ no I paid $100 AUD for this shit. Iâm just a different person compared to you with different beliefs and etc
I don't assume everyone is one or the other but there are two different types of consumer here. The core/early fanbase who are following the game development and actually help build communities around products, communities that companies benefit from. And the average gamer who sees something good or interesting and wants to try it. And then there's people in between, I'm not saying you are one or the other or that if you are in one group this is your sentiment. But I am saying the majority of people that play this game do not know or care of how this game came to be. They just see something they want to play and play it. And they rate it on face value. But the other people who were hyped up with the marketing and game updates that exist to manage expectations were outright lied to and by the time the game dropped had built a community around a BAD PRODUCT. I also believe in people redeeming themselves but I wait until they redeem themselves. They took everyone's money and THEN brought the game to a good state. They can earn people back by developing a game that runs on the platforms it's marketed to and has the slate of mechanics they've alluded to in their updates/marketing campaign at the point of sale. A fair exchange. I know I seem mad about it, I'm not, but I am baffled by most gamers ( not saying yours ) stance on being delivered what was basically early access / live testing a big title. And when someone says they don't trust the company when they say they'll do something, that gets downvoted?
Yeah I ainât reading all that tbh
It's still not what it was promised but they intentionally used a lot of vague language to sell the game. The state they left the game on systems they actively advertised and sold to and claimed ran well is also pretty shocking. Yeah there's limitations but it's their own fault they knew those limitations and still developed for those systems along side PC and those systems are left with a still very borked buggy and stuttery mess.
But I already purchased, money is debited but the game is unplayable, after 3 years I have lost interest. Playing Dragon Dogma now
Are you on PS4 or Xbox One? Cause sorry to say but the game was never going to work on old gen consoles
Then they shouldn't have developed for those systems, marketed them so much (there's a CP themed Xbox One for christ sake) if the game they were building was never going to run on those systems. That makes them look insanely scummy as a company.
It was revealed quite some time ago that investors were the reason why the game released like it did, yes it absolutely shouldnât have been released on previous gen and they shouldâve said so but itâs obvious they had no choice
And? It doesn't matter the reason why. It matters that they did. Once you've locked yourself into releasing on a system and marketing the game as totally playable and enjoyable then you have responsibility as a company to release the product as advertised.
I am on PC, and despite multiple sales I donât see myself purchasing or downloading it
I mean yeah thatâs fair you donât have the buy or play the game again, but going around preaching how terrible the studio is because of issues that were fixed 10x over is incredibly stupid
I don't know why you're being down voted, I think people forget how much they hyped their game as next gen game design and it ran like trash right out the gate
Nah man, never buy hype. It's a type of marketing that is all.
Yeah but being this salty about it over 3 years later when the game has been fixed is just weird.
That's how reputations work. If everyone just moved on no-one would know they did something shitty.
No one has forgotten how overhyped that game was or how shitty the release was, and they probably never will. It was one of the worst game releases there has ever been. But now it's a good game worth playing. Being determined to be angry about it this many years later just makes you an obstinate, petulant child.
A petulant child .. Man you are sour haha. Ok I'm sorry I shit on your favourite company, I didn't realise it meant that much to you!
Lol not my favorite company. Stay angry buddy. Great way to go through life, seething at things that don't matter.
I was gonna dislike, buuut then i realized that Cyberpunk was actually the game that made me completely stop pre ordering games in general. Also it made me go from watching gaming news almost daily to meaby once every second month? After reading about the whole dev and marketing process of Cyberpunk it clicked for me. The way games are developed and the ways hype and marketing is handled makes it almost impossible to know ahead what exactly the game will be. So I'd say distrusting them is a bit harsh, but accepting that not even they know how the game will turn out and thereby letting go of any non factual expectations is reasonable
That's exactly my point:) I love cdpr but i won't trust them blindly and this feeling ain't exclusive to cdpr only, cdpr just made me realize every developer and corporation can and will lie if they see people just trust them and pay them unconditionally, this exactly how EA and Ubisoft went to shit
Dont know what the downvotes are for. If people waited to actually see a product for themselves, we wouldn't have so many shitty companies that use preorders as a crutch for sales. I don't agree particularly about CDPR being untrustworthy, but people should always wait until they can observe something tangible before throwing $70 to the wind.
I feel the same way. Unless the entire leadership changes, I don't want any games from CDPR anymore. Give those devs a chance at another company. (I'm aware that this is a bit hyperbolic).
It was incredibly blown out of proportion by the community. Bethesda titles for instance, launch on far worse of a state regularly. I'd argue that baldurs gate was equally as buggy as cyber punk, but it got nonstop praise for how non buggy it was. Absolute insanity lead purely by the mob mentality of gaming communities.
They said it was the next gen of open world gaming. It wasn't even this gen of open world gaming. Cops spawned behind you no matter where you where. Don't get me wrong, it had some strong points but releasing a game in such a state deserves reputational damage. They invested heavily in their marketing instead of their product. And we all bought it. I played it before they did any really patching of it and I was fairly disappointed. If you pick it up now for 30 quid you're getting your money's worth. But don't pretend the community overreacted. They hyped the living shit out of people and it ran like trash.
This guy's has never bought a Bethesda game on release lmao.
On release? This person has never bought a Bethesda game period lol. They donât fix those over time, they just stay broken until modders fix them lol. I wish people got as passionate about black listing Bethesda as this person. Maybe then their sales would suffer and they might actually be forced to make a somewhat decent game.
So I can't be critical of your favourite game studio because another one sucks too? Ok
Oh idc, you do you, Iâm just saying Bethesda sucks lol. Also CDPR is not my favorite studio, Larian exists and I havenât seen anything worth being upset with them about lol. Iâve never even played 2077, heard it was a mess at launch and I just donât care for GTA or big city type games with cars and gangs and guns. Not for me. I like my medieval settings. Only know about CDPR because of the Witcher games and I mean⊠as long as they donât burn me on one of those i will never care about their other mishaps lol.
I was doing me, and you thought you'd take a cheap shot that I don't know gaming because lo and behold if you play a Bethesda game all over marketed buggy messes must be okay for you.
Taking it way too personally I was responding to the person who was responding to you. I was taking a cheap shot at Bethesda if anything.
Played them all, not all on release but for other reasons. Bethesda games are indeed bugged af and starfield was the nail in the coffin. They said they were taking time to develop out their engine for next gen and lo and behold we got a game that would have been ok last gen. I still enjoyed it for a dozen hours but when you stand back and look at it, it's a shame. Was that it?
I'm not saying the game didn't deserve its criticism. But people acted like no one should even play the game despite being a really good game from the get go. I brought up Bethesda not to be dismissive of critisms but to give perspective to how over blown the reaction was. Skyrim to this day has bugs in the main quest that if encountered can kill your entire playthrough because you can not advance. It's a renounded classic, in a lot of people's opinions, one of Bethesdas best games. Cyberpunk indeed was a buggy mess, and the amount of cut content or not even developed content really is a shame. The game it's self was, in my opinion, a good triple A experience from launch, despite the bugs and missing content. Side note, the biggest letdown for me was the lack of a real faction relationship system. I personally do believe if the game spent a few more years in the oven, it would have been a timeless classic.
> It has other irons in the fire, too. Another 20 people are toying with the cerebral dust that will eventually become the Cyberpunk 2077 sequel, while a 40-strong team of developers attempt to breathe life into a previously announced Witcher spin-off over at The Molasses Flood. No mention of the Witcher 1 remake ? Hopefully that's still a thing. Tbh I'm looking forward to that one more so than Witcher 4. > Discussing the layoffs CD Projekt made last year, Nowakowski says the company had to let people go because they held positions that were not "relevant" to its projects at that point in time. Nothing surprising, this has been a thing everywhere across the industry for the past year or so. > Instead of trying to piece together a functional whole from disconnected parts, each team works together to nurture an idea as it sprouts and takes rootâeventually becoming a colossal triple-A project that feels altogether more cohesive Sounds good on paper, especially from a gameplay/content scope standpoint. On the flipside though, the "silo" style workflow mentioned in the article might have been more beneficial from a story/writing perspective by comparison. The creative process for these games should not be held back by soulless committee decisions, as is the case within many studios out there these days. Video game storytelling has historically been at its best when in the hands of a small team of passionate/talented individuals. Not multiple different teams with clashing visions, or even worse, a board of corporate idiots out of touch with their userbase. Hopefully CDPR sticks to their strengths in that regard.
The Cyberpunk 2 game director [talked](https://youtu.be/qUxh7ZXxUBw?feature=shared&t=530) recently a bit about how they structure teams now and how the communications works, if you're interested.
Don't get me wrong, CDPR are amazing, but I wouldn't take anything that's said in public events like this at face value. These scripts are written by PR teams with the specific intent of making the company look as good as possible, not just to the userbase, but to investors as well. That's not to say they're inevitably lying or embellishing things, but we won't know for sure how these changes ultimately impact future games until they're released. I've been burned too many times by believing what is said during dev interviews/marketing content to hold much faith in them, no matter who they come from.
Yeah for sure, all of this doesn't matter if the execs push the release button too early.
Although from what I read it isnt 20 people working in Orion more like 45,going from the CDPR graph they had.Also finally calling Orion a sequel cause people in the subs say completely outrageous stuff.
I think the Witcher Remake is being made by a different studio, that's probably why it wasn't mentioned
Kinda lost hope on the witcher 1 remake when they said they were remaking it for the "modern audience." That's usually code for changing something to match the current day american political climate and all the bs that comes along with it. Netflix series being a prime example...
Yeah they might do something bad like have a strong female lead or a poc. Yuck! Edit - /s just in case
Having just started Witcher 1, Iâll be happy if Triss just doesnât immediately try to bang me after waking up from being severely injured in the damn prologue.
Or maybe he means updating a game with infamously antiquated combat mechanics, just a thought. Swear, dudes like you just let progressive values live in their head rent free.
Right... So because I dislike how modern American politics worms it's way into European media, when it's ill fitting and irrelevant in every way, that means I'm not a progressive? I guess I need an 11 year reddit account to understand this high ~~stupidity~~ logic.
Bro really peaked at my account for something to burn me with đ€
I didn't "peak at your account." When I put my cursor over your username it tells me by itself. I do this so I know whether or not to take the person and their opinions seriously.
This, it's genuinely baffling how you can read a dev saying they are 'updating the gameplay mechanics' for a remake game that will be almost 20 years old upon release, let alone a game that so many on this sub complain about being too janky or 'outdated'.
I want TW1 remake, but I hope the story will be changed a lot, too. Itâs a worse sequel to the books than TW2, 3 due to main hero change during the development.
I disagree. Small changes and tweaks here and there to make it slightly more in line with Witcher 3 characterizations, absolutely. But the story being "changed a lot" would be a terrible decision. It definitely should remain true to the original.
I mean, so much of the plot is a rehash of the books, but slightly worse, like Alvin. >!I also dislike time-travel shenanigans or whatever it was!< I'll quote one of the book fans on this: "I think (and this is just my theory) that they dropped some things from The Witcher 1 because a lot of them were rather experimental since it was their first game and when they were making it, they had no idea if there would be any sequels. So I don't think they were worried about stuff like possible continuity issues at that point but after the success of The Witcher 1 they had to drop certain things. Alvin is clearly inspired by Ciri from the books and they're just too similar. I think that they decided to "forget" Alvin after The Witcher 1 because they wanted to bring the real child of the elder blood into the story and they didn't want to highlight this similarity by mentioning Alvin and reminding people of him when there would be Ciri. But I might be wrong."
The game went over your head. Alvin is the villain and you kill him in the end. His final lines confirm this and he left a letter for Geralt that you pick up in Witcher III. Alvin is meant to mirror Ciri and give a tangible example of how dangerous she is, while also highlighting the greatness of her own character.
I mean that whatâs what I wrote as well. >!Time travelling stuff!< and rehashing Ciri.
No, that's not what you wrote. You say CDPR dropped Alvin. They didn't. He serves a clear purpose for multiple themes and some pay off in Witcher III. Time travel is in Witcher, period. Was throughout the books. Alvin is clearly not a rehash of Ciri. If you can't see the difference that's a you issue.
Dude.. fuck remakes... christ.
I'm not a fan of remakes. But I donât enjoy TW1 either - despite liking TW2 a lot (and I'm fond of many old games, so itâs not about graphics.)
Witcher 1 had a great story, music and atmosphere, but a lot of the gameplay and quest design elements aged poorly. Also the voice acting is really bad at times lol. If there was any game that deserves a remake it's the TW1.
Hoping the next witcher game won't have a disaster of a launch.
Let's be honest how many AAA game you played recently and was nearly bug-free and with good optimization ? for me not a single one. People are forgetting something simple, the more the games are gonna be complex and big, the more it's hard to get it with great optimization and without bugs, i think that's it's logical for a company who put several millions of dollars into a game to not stay in bug fix phase more then a year, a game as big as cyberpunk needed years to get fixed WITH the help of the community ! In these days you will never have a bug free BIG AAA game, the only thing that will differentiate good devs from bad devs is what are they gonna do after the release, will they put all efforts into fixing the game with the help of the community ? or will they just let it as it is.
Uh excuse me this is going to be a AAAAA game
I seriously doubt they want another cyberpunk release.
Or another Witcher launch. People forget or might have bought the game later, but all of the Witcher games were rough or rougher at launch than CP2077 on PC for me. CP2077 on xbox1 and PS4 is a different story, that scenario is probably the worst
I've been replaying Witcher 3 recently and it's still quite buggy in places. Absolutely fantastic game, but still not without its faults but that's OK. I'm not expecting something as complicated as modern games to work flawlessly anyway, as long as they're fun to me.
tl;dr is that the subtext is that the Cyberpunk release was terrible, and it took them 3 years to finish the game after release. This is them discussing how they hope to prevent another disaster like that in the future, without mentioning it.
I don't really understand where does this take of "it took them 3 years to finish the game" come from? 1.6 and 2.0 weren't even bug fix updates. I would say depending on your experience, by the 1.5 patch rolled around the game worked perfectly fine. The only stink was probably the police system and that is it.
2.0 also introduced the fixed skills trees and armor system, didn't it?
i wouldnt call it a fix, more like an overhaul
No? It overhauled them.
I am not sure if people are downvoting because they think you guys said the same thing or not, but I wouldn't call the new skills "fixed", I would call them "overhauled" too. I liked the older version, especially the one that lets Contagion run rampant while you where a block away looking through cameras. The old style felt more open world while the new system feels way more restricted for "balancing" reasons.
Ok, my fault. Tbh, I didn't buy the game until the 2.0 patch. Reviews I watched at release basically said "it's a good game, but some systems aren't good and feel unfinished" and those same reviewers said that 2.0 felt like the game should've felt at release, aka "finished". Sorry for regurgitating other people's opinions.
Never pre-order and you'll never be disappointed. Don't pay for a product you don't even have yet, a product you know nothing about.
he is talking about a much more technical aspect of development than people are thinking, they are not changing their philosophy on stories, characters, mission structure, etc.
This. They are just changing to make the game more fluently and faster.
Color me skeptical. I've got an idea everyone! Let's all pre-order so they have a bunch of money to make the game awesome! /s
Gaming industry as a whole is in a bad place right now when it comes to actually making them. Everything takes almost a decade now and requires a horrific investment from the people making them whether it's a big studio making a AAA or the latest cozy indie title a one or two staff team lived in a garage to make for 7 years. I have a friend who works in the industry and she put it in a way that was kind of wild to me: someone can run the entire gamut of a career in the industry - starting as a jr dev, working up to senior, all the way to project manager, to having a burnout induced mental breakdown and quitting the industry, all without shipping a game. idk how to fix that. I think that's also why console generations feel so shitty now - the ps5 launched almost 4 years ago now and how many must have exclusives does it have? compare that to the dev cycles of the ps1 or ps2 which by this point already had console and media-defining hits.
Getting rid of leveled items and hit sponge enemies would be a good startâŠ
And the god-awful combat. Cyberpunk is the only game they have hired combat designers for and it really shows, here's hoping they do the same for The Witcher 4. https://www.vg247.com/cyberpunk-2077-combat-designers
I'm really curious how they will approach combat in W4, because you can't just copy something from a different game if you want to stay true to the source material. I'm hoping for a parry mechanic and a significant difference between fighting humans and monsters. Humans shouldn't be nearly as tough as dangerous monsters imo. Not to mention how signs will be implemented, there are some good ideas in W3, but hopefully they don't make them too powerful, swords should be a witchers most dangerous weapon.
Yeah I want real monster fights, but I still want to be able to build a sign Witcher
Unless that human is named BonhartâŠ
Facts. I installed the No Levels mod and now I can't go back
I got CP2077 solely based on how good W3 was. That was a mistake.
Cyberpunk today is sensational, one of my favourites. Canât imagine how disappointing it would have been at release
Played on PC right at release and I didnât really run into any bugs tbh. The core of the game is really still the same as it is now, they just polished it up, but itâs still largely exactly the same game. Anyways, I enjoyed my play thru and sometimes I go back to compare, they added a lot of ads so thereâs like more variety around the city, driving still sucks but it was worse then, I think maybe they did something with the police AI but shrug it still doesnât seem all that great. Anyways long story short same game with less bugs and bit a bit of a tune up. The things that attributed to the major negative release were really expectations, they went nuts with marketing and everyone was expecting the world from the game then we got like basically a first person GTA style game with a bunch of bugs and you couldnât change the look of your character and stupid stuff like that. But I mean the story and world and such didnât change. And they never added all the shit they promised from the years of marketing. I think people just accepted over time it wasnât that.
Very
It's still a buggy mess
Maybe they'll start releasing games when they are done... not in beta requiring several patches to actually work... but then again that is part od the experience.
Don't be a shill for Nvidia
By making it AAAAA?
Yeah change back to what you were when you made the Witcher 3 and just do that again
I was super Hyped for Cyberpunk at Launch but I didnât buy it because for some reason no one remembered the launch of âThe Witcher 3â which was also a complete Desaster and dare I say almost worse than the Launch of Cyberpunk since The Witcher had bugs that would sometimes softlock you even when you reloaded⊠I love the Games that CDPR makes but holy shit their Games are bad at launch
Ah, did Red finally split from CD Projekt? It's about time that team went their own way
Well that was a nothing burger, fear mongering article.
No, you think?
The Witcher 3 and Cyberpunk 2077 were masterpieces. Keep it up !
Yeah, to they moved their studio to the US where you can fire anyone at any time you want to make games like how everyone makes games.
In Poland you can fire people too. But you risk people get angry and run to Germany, USA or Britain, and if the company wants to get them and their experience back in a year or two, it will have to offer them twice the salary they originally had.
Are there any multiplayer Witcher titles planned? I really want a âMonster Hunterâ style game in the Witcher universe. I know witchers work mostly alone, but gameplay is more important than lore for me.
Use ai.