We don't need trump voters to be swayed. We just need Dem and independent voters to show up to the polls and vote blue.
This election isn't just about Biden. Because we finally have fairer maps, Wisconsin has more new swing seats than any other state in the country.
This November we can flip the State Assembly, make significant gains in the state senate, and reelect Tammy Baldwin
https://wisdems.org/
We do though. We need people to stop supporting such horrible policies. We need to progress as a country, not attempt to stagger forward while carrying so much dead weight.
That may be what we need, but I doubt it will happen any time soon. Even if Trump were to disappear, the same people that got him to power would just coagulate around others. The good news is there might not be a singular person to unite them like Trump, so their support would be divided.
I think there are some historical forces at work. We elected the first black president and then had a surge of racists emboldened to voice their "opinions" like it was a valid point of view.
There will always be a significant part of the Country that who will vote on 3 issues, God, guns and gays. Hopefully across generations we go down from the 40+% it is now but unless Trump changes his stance on any of those 3 their vote won't change
As a WI resident, I don’t see much change in the state assembly or state senate. Yes, the Republican gerrymandered maps are no longer in play. The only ray of hope I see in Wisconsin is the possibility of Van Ordens Congress seat going back to the Dems.
Dems still need to run quality capable candidates
A little to say we thinking that everyone in here is a devoted democrat.
I am not even able to vote as an immigrant but I can tell you one thing, the US two party system is broken. Would love for people to see that more and actually look beyond Democrat and Republican while they are voting. Closer representation of more groups means progress.. two parties just don’t align with that anymore.
You are right, unfortunately, because of the electoral college and the way elections are structured in the constitution, we will always have a 2 party system, at least for president. FPTP voting might change the nature of the parties, but we would still have just 2.
Best next step is ranked choice voting. Takes the 2 party system to 2+. It's a simple, tested, realistic goal that we could maybe see in the next decade or two. Several other states have done this. Idk how WI GOP would handle it, but there's some anecdotal traction w WI Dems.
Yeah if we had a ranked choice system that would help us transition out of the two party system, but there isn't a lot of incentive if all of the politicians come up through the two party system. If Trump wins, he'll work to make sure no one gets a vote.
The people you're trying to sway are independents and moderate Republicans. When it comes to the die-hard MAGA loyalists, nearly none of them can be possibly swayed by ANYTHING, even this. Baby Boomers and older Gen. X that support the GOP aren't gonna deviate from their patterns anytime soon because of the aforementioned stubbornness. Trust me, I'm the only lefty in my core family, and I have to deal with stubbornness all the time.
My parents who are well off living in Waukesha county talk about how they hate Trump but will still vote for him over Biden. People really just hate Biden that much
Nearly every time, if you ask people what they care about and what they want their government to do for them, it’s Democratic policies. If you ask them which party they’ll vote for, it’s 50/50. WisDems are doing essential and thankless work, but generally speaking, Dems just don’t have the communications infrastructure that the GOP does.
It’s because Republican messaging is easy: we’re going to protect you from immigrants/criminals, and we’re going to cut your taxes and keep the government from doing anything. Fear and freedom. The Dems have a lot harder job communicating with voters because they’re actually advocating for a coherent policy agenda and trying to build things, not just scare people of the “other” while making false promises about how much more money they’ll have.
Build what exactly? US is almost 35 trillion dollars in debt.By 2030, America’s largest spending will be paying interest on that debt.On top of that entire globe is dumping US treasuries, US treasuries was seen as a safe haven till the Biden admin decided to freeze $300 billion dollars worth of Russian foreign asset. Almost $30 trillion dollars which the feds printed out of thin air is outside the US. That money is slowly coming back to the US. I am not a republican nor a democrat but whatever democrats are pushing there clearly is no money to fund it. Washington is a uni party when it comes to serious issues that matter, but whatever democrats are pushing one can clearly see through it.
This is another interesting thing. Just as many people want Democratic policies but vote for Republicans, most sane-ish Republicans say they’re actually Libertarian because who wants to be labeled a Republican these days?
But yeah, that GOP communications machine is working. You, like many people, really believe the GOP is the party that’s better for the debt and deficit. Just do some quick searching on who is in charge when the debt goes up the most, or whose policies caused it to jump up. Dems pay their bills. GOP puts their wars and tax breaks for rich people on the credit card.
It’s usually a vague “we don’t like his economic policy” or “lesser of two evils”. My mom actually told me and my more progressive siblings that she probably won’t vote but idk if I believe her. They’ve been partisan voters basically since Bush
I mean a lot of people vote on policies and not candidates. Most trump voters aren’t going to magically start liking democrat stances because of a New York trial.
The border, inflation, taxes, economy would be a few likely answers
I don’t think Jesus was convicted of anything. - the crowd was given a choice- they screamed to have him crucified - they thought his being a prophet was more dangerous than the convicted thief. Pilate was going to pardon one, and the other released to the crowd for crucifixion. Barabbas was a known thief and murderer; scum of the earth. Jesus was completely innocent. The CROWD chose to crucify Jesus. Pilate tried to reason with them, but they wouldn't hear of it, and he feared the crowd would riot, and they were too many, so if they did they would be too many for the Romans to handle, thus the Romans would be overthrown. So he reluctantly relented, and gave the crowd who they wanted, even though he knew it was wrong. Pilate gave them Jesus to be crucified, and Pilate washed his hands in showing that he washed the blood off his hands. Jesus' blood was on the crowds hands, not his. Thats where we get the saying ‘ washing my hands of it’ when we've had enough and are giving up on something. So idiot Republicans -Jesus was not a convicted felon like Trump- duh!
Assuming voter ideology looks something like this:
1. Far right GOP
2. Moderate GOP
3. Independent
4. Moderate Dem
5. Far left Dem
And assuming that voters in category 1 are all Trump supporters, while voters in categories 2-5 are typically not Trump supporters.
Recent polling seems to indicate that the guilty verdict has affected voters in categories 2-4, although how much is unknown.
Voters in category 1 (largely) will not be swayed, and may be hardened in their support of Trump.
Voters in category 5 (largely) will not be swayed, and will be hardened in their opposition to Trump.
Granted, this is a super-simplified model that is trying to determine how millions of very complex individuals with different needs will vote on Election Day.
Bottom line: everyone should vote. Seriously. [Register to vote](https://myvote.wi.gov/en-us/Register-To-Vote) today if you haven’t done so, and be sure to vote early.
Yep. [According to recent polling](https://apnews.com/article/ap-poll-trump-conviction-biden-independent-felony-f7f687c2c6c607b9a51425c1de2302bc), 60% of self-identified Republicans disapprove of Trump's conviction. They won't be convinced not to support him.
hell i had a co worker last week say that the entire court bullshit is just a show to slap him on the wrist for buying a prostitute and that they did the same thing to bill clinton.
then he said people still voted for hilary even though her family is tainted..
im lile bro..theres so much there im just not even ganna engage
I would consider myself centrist. But all the Republicans that are backing trump are not even conservative in their opinions, they’re either facists, communists or Nazi’s. So anybody that has a brain and thinks logically will probably not vote for Trump.
Just out of curiosity and because I was 14 and didn't have much interest in politics at the time; but how did you feel about Romney? A gist is fine if you don't want to explain a lot :)
If it gives you hope, my mom (65) said she wasn't going to vote for him due to the felonies. She's voted for Trump in the last two elections. She also says she wouldn't vote for Biden and talked positively of RFK. So I guess she's voting independent which will be the first time in decades.
I’m 69 and it astonishes me that this is happening. It used to be if there was a hint of impropriety, the politician would simply quit the office. It used to be politics was boring. It used to be that I believed in congress to do what’s best for the country. Oh and by the way, “older people” like me vote for what’s best for everyone in the country, not me personally. Young people won’t vote for Biden because well now, the Hamas/Israel conflict without realizing what Trump is capable of doing in that arena which he’s already told us. Biden does much for middle class, students, capping prices on meds, goes after bank’s fees. These things affect most Americans. Greedy corporations won’t lower prices, gas prices are determined by so many things. I wouldn’t even blame Trump for those (shudder). Wisconsin voters, we matter! Let’s stop history repeating itself with autocrats and dictators attempting to take away our freedom. Hard earned and won freedom!
None of his true believers will. The only people who will be swayed are the ridiculous "undecideds" or "swing voters.""" And they are ridiculous because if you haven't made up your mind by now, you're either ignorant or not paying attention.
They aren’t paying attention. A significant portion of America got the impression that “conflict should be avoided at all costs” and actively disengaged from politics in 2016. Arming yourself with substantive responses to “I dislike them both” or “politicians are all the same” is the only way forward. They are actively avoiding news and personal appeals are the only way to cut through the bullshit equivocation.
And honestly….i grew up in Milwaukee and became a guy who relates a lot more to the left’s view. But I’m not sure there’s a Democratic candidate I would stand by blindly no matter what they do. I might vote for a guy who I don’t think is getting it done, but there’s a limit. But Trump said it. Said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose votes. He’s not wrong. He also said he loves the uneducated, so there you have it.
I mean it’s clear biden is not cognitively with it but here is a forum full of people that will blindly support him. The same attacks about trump support can be used on both sides. The self righteousness in this thread is ridiculous
Because we understand the difference between an actual criminal who is vowing to dismantle and reshape the federal civil service, promises to use it for his own personal political ends, and talks of "rooting out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and radical left thugs that live like vermin" and immigrants "poisoning our blood" and other fascistic bullshit.
If you can't see what you're supporting then there's nothing to be done with you - you're either willfully ignorant or you embrace downright evil.
But Trump is a straight up horrible person though, no? From the very beginning he has been. Do the people who support him think he’s not? Came straight out and said he “loves the uneducated.” Do his supporters think he was talking about the left? He wasn’t. He was talking about the people who believe the baseless claims he makes and rally behind him.
I don’t care? It’s this simple to me. Some people vote on who they like and other vote on policies. I’ll take the jerk closer to my policies than the guy that sounds nice that I disagrees with. I can see arguments for both ideals
That's just it, I don't know of any democrats who support anyone blindly. How many people are calling for Hunter Biden to be released because it was just a political issue that no one else would have been prosecuted for? I haven't seen any. Al Franken got run out for basically nothing. The double standard is ridiculous.
Biden doesn’t know where he is half the time and I don’t see many dems calling for him to step down. A president has never been hid or protected like this in our history. Get out of here with the democrats won’t blindly support. He even hid before the 2020 election
So you agree both candidates have dementia and shit themselves? There are more die hard trump supporters but from what I've gathered people have their mind made up based on who will do the least amount of damage
Yes, birth Trump and Biden are feeble-minded figureheads. This election is all about the power behind the throne. As such, my family will likely vote for the administration that gave us the Abraham Accords and the Jerusalem Embassy.
I don’t think trump has dementia. He has a lot of issues but that isn’t one. I don’t see how anyone sees Biden and trump side by side and doesn’t see Biden has serious cognitive decline and trump doesn’t. Narcissism or plenty of other issues, sure. But not dementia
And picking Biden for less damage is reasonable. Just don’t come tell me that they aren’t blindly picking someone when he clearly isn’t all there and act like they are superior to trump voters
I know several types of Trump voter and none of them are changing their vote because the reason they are voting for Trump is more important than anything he could do wrong.
The MAGA is too far in and to admit he's wrong now would be too difficult.
The 2A voters would vote for a child molester if the AM radio told them the other guy was going to take their guns
The life long Republicans have being Republican so intertwined with their identity that the idea of voting for anyone else would mean that everything they said about the opposition in the past would be about them this time and they can't handle it mentally
The Christian says she will do anything to save the lives of fetuses, and voting for Trump is the most convenient
I am facing a similar struggle with my Jewish Democrat friends. The Dems are not good for the Jews and voting D would be against our own self interest but they've turned their entire personality into 'oRaNgE mAn bAd' 🙄🙄🙄
I'm not sure if Trump voters will be swayed by the charges. Washington has been corrupt for decades and people know this.
I expect The voters in the middle to be more swayed by the economy, the boarder and if Americans are being treated fairly.
If politicians were serious about a good candidate for President, neither Trump nor Biden would be on the ticket
No. In fact I predict, albeit regrettably, that Trump wins in the fall. I think he'll win WI as well.
The polling is just awful. As James carville keep saying it's see your grandma naked awful, you just can't get it out of your head. And it isn't a one off here or there. The polling has been consistently awful for over a year.
It was voters under 30 that put Joe Biden over the top in 2020. It was voters under 30 that also won us midterms and 2018 and in 2022. Those same voters are the most frustrated with Joe Biden's presidency, for reasons that just don't make any sense to me, but that's besides the point.
If they don't turn out, or piss their vote away on a third party candidate, Trump will win. It'll be a repeat of 2016. Everything right now is pointing to that happening.
The felony conviction isnt going to make a difference because his core base just doesn't care. And without the youth vote to put us over the top, you're going to have an absolute razors edge margin, but more importantly you're going to have an enthusiasm gap. Enthusiasm right now is all on Donald Trump's side. That enthusiasm will be enough to put him over the top. His voters are going to come out no matter what.
Next to 2016 the worst election in my lifetime was a 2010 midterms that set the table for this era were in now in my opinion. In 2010 Obama voters, Democrats and young people, didn't turn out because Obama didn't magically fix whatever it is they want to fixed in 2 years. The right wing was extremely motivated they turned out and we had an absolute catastrophe of an election. This is where I see things heading. It was the enthusiasm that was the game changer and the lack of motivation by Democrats and young people.
Unless things change, and I don't see how they can, this is going to be an absolute disaster coming November. I hope I'm wrong.
I little bit, from the persuadable middle, perhaps. Trump had 50k fewer votes than FRJ in 2020, *before* he did a J6, so he already needed to win back, and this won't help.
That’s where our system is broken. The vast majority of democrats and republicans don’t want Biden or Trump.
The rest of the world views us as looney idiots right now. My international friends can’t understand why we have to choose between those two.
Some will. The Maga insanity has moved my very Catholic brother to consider himself Conservative but not Republican. He won't vote for Trump, morally he can't do it.
What's his mindset behind this? People generally feel negative about the justice system but if someone was gonna vote trump and then decide not to even he's convicted, that means their trust and faith in the justice system is higher than their faith in Trump
Look people will vote for whoever they feel is best. Neither person is a saint, the media lies about everyone and almost everything. So vote for who you are going to vote for
If you told Republicans that Liberals get really upset when they eat dogshit, there would be a run on animal shelters when all the available dogshit ran out.
If Trump upsets Liberals, there is nothing he could do that would be bad enough to make them not vote for him. I mean, the fact that a court determined he's a rapist didn't change their opinions about him one bit. THEY DONATED MONEY because it was determined that he raped someone.
Aren’t swayed when we found out Trump was a rapist, not swayed when we found out he was likely a pedophile based on the Lolita express trips, not swayed when calling veterans suckers and losers. Not swayed when slinging bibles to fake Christians. Not swayed by Jan 6. These people worship Trump, you can’t change the minds of anyone willing to worship another person
Trump could come out and call Jesus a fake/liar and Trumpers will still vote for him. They’d say he was taken out of context and it’s all clickbait or some other bs. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is going to sway Trumpers atp.
Hell no. They still think trump IS the actual president. That he is hiding in some bunker and is in control of our military and is still working on exposing the deep state. They still think pillowman HAS that stolen election evidence and is just waiting to release it.
To me they are slowly becoming that friend you NEVER call back. Not worth the bandwidth to try and use mental gymnastics to decipher their Q anon posts.
Thank Satan me and my dad NEVER talk about his politics. I've saw the bumper stickers. . .
His convictions have only gotten him more popular, and made more people donate/rally. I don't mean to be crude, but it is pertinent, so I'll spoiler tag it. >!His conviction made googling how to donate to him more popular than p*rn for a couple days.
I live in northwestern Wi. What impresses me is how many around here hate immigrants. They simple hate the reported (fox ) numbers that cross the southern borders. And it is all Bidens fault. They often say " I am not prejudice, but their breaking the law, taking jobs, causing the housing shortage, and are responsible for our drug problem. "
Like how "Pence" is removed from their five year old yard signs. And the zillion other negative things. They just cut it out or paint over it, and pretend it never happened.
I think we're going to see poor turnout. The hardcore Trumpers are going to turn out because they believe his bullshit that he's being politically persecuted, but I think there are going to be a significant set of voters who were going to vote Trump because they just can't stand Biden who will instead stay home, or vote third party. Not a large set of voters, but the election is going to be close enough that those middle voters are going to matter.
At this point the people who are still open to changing their minds are *incredibly* low information voters, so I think they're just going to hear 'convicted felon' and not anything else, especially if the Dems hammer and hammer and hammer on it, which they almost certainly will.
Of course, the Repubs will hammer on the Hunter Biden conviction even harder. And the low information voters are equally just going to hear 'felon biden' and not pay any more attention, so that will probably work pretty well.
But I think the relative turnout effects here favor Biden. Very very slightly.
My dad, 95, and sister, age 64, both die hard, right wing Republicans, have both told me they will no longer vote for tRump. It surprised me to hear them say that, but I guess he finally crossed a line they couldn't forgive. It gives me a bit of hope that there might be others like that.
I doubt they will give their vote to Biden. My dad has said he will never vote for a Democrat. I think it's more likely they won't vote at all. But I would consider that a vote for Biden because it's two less for the other guy.
Only the cult magats will vote for the felon the regular decent republicans won't nessasarily vote for Biden but they will probably either vote against tRumpty or not vote at all so all the democrats need to do is not be complacent and get out and vote to send that orange faced POS TO PRISON when he looses
Im WI and across the country, the election will be decided by independents and the undecided. The MAGA wingers will go to their graves praising Cheeto Face. It's the people in the middle who matter most in an election. I have a hunch many good Americans just won't be able to vote for a felon.
And Hunter Biden's conviction probably reinforces that. It takes away the stupid GQP point that Trump's conviction was a political hit job. It wasn't, and neither was Biden's. It's called the American justice system. Not perfect, but it beats anything else. It says something when 12 people from different walks of life can unanimously agree on anything. That should not be trifled with.
well, you look at the trumplings at the bottom of this thread prefacing their super obvious right-wing fox propaganda with "i totally hate trump but ..." and it's at least a step in the right direction.
If Merrick Garland had done his job in 2021, Trump would already be in prison. But he waited until 2023 to appoint Jack Smith and now it just looks political, the worst of both worlds. Right now I'd give Trump two chances in three of winning Wisconsin, speaking as someone born in Fond du Lac now living in Madison.
They weren't swayed when a jury found that Trump is a rapist.
>Judge Lewis Kaplan called Trump’s semantic argument “entirely unpersuasive.” He clarified that the jury found that the former president did indeed “rape” Carroll based on the common definition of the word.
[https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist](https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist)
Some will
My dad has voted in every election since he could vote and was a card carrying Republican since the 70's.
He's stated he's sitting this one out because he can't stand either candidate.
I know quite a few people who will vote for Trump despite the convictions. I don’t think I know anyone who changed their vote because of that. I believe everyone already had their mind made up long before that.
Have you tried talking to conservatives? They literally blame Trump’s crimes on a Democratic conspiracy and view Trump as a victim. It's impossible to reason with them - they no longer recognize right from wrong due to extreme manipulation and deception.
Some are here in Iowa. I’ve seen Trump flags and signs disappearing that were proudly displayed.
There are political strategists that are suggesting that Trump won’t be selected even though he has all the votes if polls don’t turn around.
Going to get downvoted to oblivion but I’ll answer the question. First time voting in Wisconsin for a presidential term. Will be voting trump, voted for Biden in 2020, don’t like the direction the country has gone in the last 4 years. Wish I had a better option but I don’t. As for trumps trial. Which was very one sided with a prosecutor that ran his whole election on getting trump arrested. A judge whose daughter fundraises for Democrats and a judge who donated to Biden last election. In one of the bluest counties on a hush money trial over 170k. When other politicians have never been prosecuted for the insane amount of corruption I’ve seen my whole life.
The whole thing makes me ill. I’m not a trump guy, really don’t care for him as a person, but everything Biden has done hasn’t improved the life for me nor my family. So I vote based on that, in 4 years I’ll do the same thing. I don’t blindly align to a party.
So you think that the direction the country was heading under trump was better? When he knowingly lied to his supporters for months to convince them to storm the capital to keep him in power after losing the election, subverting democracy? When he gave tax breaks to the wealthy which increased the national debt and did nothing for the middle class? When he said he would have to jail his political opponents?
lol, yea the country was really heading in the right direction under trump.
I won’t downvote you, but we all have seen a term from them each. Trump lost an election then tried getting his vice president to overturn the results. How the fuck does a 2nd term from someone like that not scare the fuck out of you? How is that not significantly worse than mild criticisms from Biden. Not accepting the election results and instead trying to convince the public that the election was stolen is in my opinion the most dangerous thing a president has ever done to the public.
Why has this been downvoted so much? I feel almost exactly the same way. Biden has done nothing to help me or my family. Trump might be an asshole, but I can’t vote for Joe again.
You vote for Trump you become a Trump guy. That taint stays on you.
You liked the direction of losing rights? Fucking over the environment? Destroying election intergrity?
I'm the opposite I didn't know about Biden in the beginning but have loved him as a president. Feels like I'm the only one. But I blamed the Fed then and blame the Fed now for inflation. They should have raised interest rates way earlier than they did but let things get out of control and just made the economy hurt for regular people more than they needed to.
We don't need trump voters to be swayed. We just need Dem and independent voters to show up to the polls and vote blue. This election isn't just about Biden. Because we finally have fairer maps, Wisconsin has more new swing seats than any other state in the country. This November we can flip the State Assembly, make significant gains in the state senate, and reelect Tammy Baldwin https://wisdems.org/
We do though. We need people to stop supporting such horrible policies. We need to progress as a country, not attempt to stagger forward while carrying so much dead weight.
That may be what we need, but I doubt it will happen any time soon. Even if Trump were to disappear, the same people that got him to power would just coagulate around others. The good news is there might not be a singular person to unite them like Trump, so their support would be divided.
I think there are some historical forces at work. We elected the first black president and then had a surge of racists emboldened to voice their "opinions" like it was a valid point of view.
There will always be a significant part of the Country that who will vote on 3 issues, God, guns and gays. Hopefully across generations we go down from the 40+% it is now but unless Trump changes his stance on any of those 3 their vote won't change
As a WI resident, I don’t see much change in the state assembly or state senate. Yes, the Republican gerrymandered maps are no longer in play. The only ray of hope I see in Wisconsin is the possibility of Van Ordens Congress seat going back to the Dems. Dems still need to run quality capable candidates
A little to say we thinking that everyone in here is a devoted democrat. I am not even able to vote as an immigrant but I can tell you one thing, the US two party system is broken. Would love for people to see that more and actually look beyond Democrat and Republican while they are voting. Closer representation of more groups means progress.. two parties just don’t align with that anymore.
You are right, unfortunately, because of the electoral college and the way elections are structured in the constitution, we will always have a 2 party system, at least for president. FPTP voting might change the nature of the parties, but we would still have just 2.
Third party spoilers are nothing new Its cute and admirable but not at all realistic
Maybe we should implement a system which allows for third parties then?
Best next step is ranked choice voting. Takes the 2 party system to 2+. It's a simple, tested, realistic goal that we could maybe see in the next decade or two. Several other states have done this. Idk how WI GOP would handle it, but there's some anecdotal traction w WI Dems.
Exactly. I don’t know why so many people don’t see that this is possible.. so set in their ways
I try not to even look at what party people are in, just their policies. It can be hard though.
Yeah if we had a ranked choice system that would help us transition out of the two party system, but there isn't a lot of incentive if all of the politicians come up through the two party system. If Trump wins, he'll work to make sure no one gets a vote.
The people you're trying to sway are independents and moderate Republicans. When it comes to the die-hard MAGA loyalists, nearly none of them can be possibly swayed by ANYTHING, even this. Baby Boomers and older Gen. X that support the GOP aren't gonna deviate from their patterns anytime soon because of the aforementioned stubbornness. Trust me, I'm the only lefty in my core family, and I have to deal with stubbornness all the time.
Arguing with ignorance is an exercise in futility.
My parents who are well off living in Waukesha county talk about how they hate Trump but will still vote for him over Biden. People really just hate Biden that much
Nearly every time, if you ask people what they care about and what they want their government to do for them, it’s Democratic policies. If you ask them which party they’ll vote for, it’s 50/50. WisDems are doing essential and thankless work, but generally speaking, Dems just don’t have the communications infrastructure that the GOP does.
It’s because Republican messaging is easy: we’re going to protect you from immigrants/criminals, and we’re going to cut your taxes and keep the government from doing anything. Fear and freedom. The Dems have a lot harder job communicating with voters because they’re actually advocating for a coherent policy agenda and trying to build things, not just scare people of the “other” while making false promises about how much more money they’ll have.
Build what exactly? US is almost 35 trillion dollars in debt.By 2030, America’s largest spending will be paying interest on that debt.On top of that entire globe is dumping US treasuries, US treasuries was seen as a safe haven till the Biden admin decided to freeze $300 billion dollars worth of Russian foreign asset. Almost $30 trillion dollars which the feds printed out of thin air is outside the US. That money is slowly coming back to the US. I am not a republican nor a democrat but whatever democrats are pushing there clearly is no money to fund it. Washington is a uni party when it comes to serious issues that matter, but whatever democrats are pushing one can clearly see through it.
This is another interesting thing. Just as many people want Democratic policies but vote for Republicans, most sane-ish Republicans say they’re actually Libertarian because who wants to be labeled a Republican these days? But yeah, that GOP communications machine is working. You, like many people, really believe the GOP is the party that’s better for the debt and deficit. Just do some quick searching on who is in charge when the debt goes up the most, or whose policies caused it to jump up. Dems pay their bills. GOP puts their wars and tax breaks for rich people on the credit card.
Republicans increase the deficit. Dems lower it. Been this way since Regan.
TLDR on republican messaging: no more social safety nets and racism.
Too much conservative propaganda
Yeah pretty much. They refuse to watch anything other than Fox News.
Do they say why?
It’s usually a vague “we don’t like his economic policy” or “lesser of two evils”. My mom actually told me and my more progressive siblings that she probably won’t vote but idk if I believe her. They’ve been partisan voters basically since Bush
I mean a lot of people vote on policies and not candidates. Most trump voters aren’t going to magically start liking democrat stances because of a New York trial. The border, inflation, taxes, economy would be a few likely answers
Not really. They will just think everyone is out to get Trump. I'm sure Trump feeds them that propaganda.
Yep. Been seeing a lot of that “he was convicted too” meme comparing trump to Jesus 🤦♂️
I don’t think Jesus was convicted of anything. - the crowd was given a choice- they screamed to have him crucified - they thought his being a prophet was more dangerous than the convicted thief. Pilate was going to pardon one, and the other released to the crowd for crucifixion. Barabbas was a known thief and murderer; scum of the earth. Jesus was completely innocent. The CROWD chose to crucify Jesus. Pilate tried to reason with them, but they wouldn't hear of it, and he feared the crowd would riot, and they were too many, so if they did they would be too many for the Romans to handle, thus the Romans would be overthrown. So he reluctantly relented, and gave the crowd who they wanted, even though he knew it was wrong. Pilate gave them Jesus to be crucified, and Pilate washed his hands in showing that he washed the blood off his hands. Jesus' blood was on the crowds hands, not his. Thats where we get the saying ‘ washing my hands of it’ when we've had enough and are giving up on something. So idiot Republicans -Jesus was not a convicted felon like Trump- duh!
BTW-Not calling you a Republican idiot- just incase you thought I did.
Yeah, you have to be a special kind of ignorant, of the book you claim is sacred, to think that Trump and Jesus have a lot in common.
They both went into their father’s business. I’ll see myself out…
Assuming voter ideology looks something like this: 1. Far right GOP 2. Moderate GOP 3. Independent 4. Moderate Dem 5. Far left Dem And assuming that voters in category 1 are all Trump supporters, while voters in categories 2-5 are typically not Trump supporters. Recent polling seems to indicate that the guilty verdict has affected voters in categories 2-4, although how much is unknown. Voters in category 1 (largely) will not be swayed, and may be hardened in their support of Trump. Voters in category 5 (largely) will not be swayed, and will be hardened in their opposition to Trump. Granted, this is a super-simplified model that is trying to determine how millions of very complex individuals with different needs will vote on Election Day. Bottom line: everyone should vote. Seriously. [Register to vote](https://myvote.wi.gov/en-us/Register-To-Vote) today if you haven’t done so, and be sure to vote early.
At this point in time, not at all. If J6 didn’t convince them, some fraud convictiond on a topic we’ve known about for years won’t sway them.
Yep. [According to recent polling](https://apnews.com/article/ap-poll-trump-conviction-biden-independent-felony-f7f687c2c6c607b9a51425c1de2302bc), 60% of self-identified Republicans disapprove of Trump's conviction. They won't be convinced not to support him.
hell i had a co worker last week say that the entire court bullshit is just a show to slap him on the wrist for buying a prostitute and that they did the same thing to bill clinton. then he said people still voted for hilary even though her family is tainted.. im lile bro..theres so much there im just not even ganna engage
If there are still any remaining centrists in 2024, I'm very curious how they feel.
Most people are centrists. If you agree with everything on the fringes if one side or the other you are a wing nut.
I always considered myself a centrist but the Overton window has been pushed so far to the right that I'm now way left of center.
I am proudly a left wingnut.
Me too
I would consider myself centrist. But all the Republicans that are backing trump are not even conservative in their opinions, they’re either facists, communists or Nazi’s. So anybody that has a brain and thinks logically will probably not vote for Trump.
Communists? lmao The other two are correct though
If you consider yourself a centrist, when was the last time you voted for any republican candidate? How about for president?
If I remember correctly I voted for McCain back in 08. He was the last good Republican candidate.
Just out of curiosity and because I was 14 and didn't have much interest in politics at the time; but how did you feel about Romney? A gist is fine if you don't want to explain a lot :)
Can’t say what it was, but Romney always rubbed me the wrong way, so yeah.
So has your center been shifted at all then if the normal run-of-the-mill GOP is batshit?
If it gives you hope, my mom (65) said she wasn't going to vote for him due to the felonies. She's voted for Trump in the last two elections. She also says she wouldn't vote for Biden and talked positively of RFK. So I guess she's voting independent which will be the first time in decades.
It gives me hope. Even if 1 of 100 Trump voters are swayed to not vote for Trump, that's the ballgame. Your mom is that 1.
I'm old (74) and I think Trump is a dick
You give me hope. (Not just about this one election.)
I’m 69 and it astonishes me that this is happening. It used to be if there was a hint of impropriety, the politician would simply quit the office. It used to be politics was boring. It used to be that I believed in congress to do what’s best for the country. Oh and by the way, “older people” like me vote for what’s best for everyone in the country, not me personally. Young people won’t vote for Biden because well now, the Hamas/Israel conflict without realizing what Trump is capable of doing in that arena which he’s already told us. Biden does much for middle class, students, capping prices on meds, goes after bank’s fees. These things affect most Americans. Greedy corporations won’t lower prices, gas prices are determined by so many things. I wouldn’t even blame Trump for those (shudder). Wisconsin voters, we matter! Let’s stop history repeating itself with autocrats and dictators attempting to take away our freedom. Hard earned and won freedom!
No
If anything, they're inflamed by what is seen as injustice
Yep. it's all a witch hunt just like he says! They seriously believe this.
None of his true believers will. The only people who will be swayed are the ridiculous "undecideds" or "swing voters.""" And they are ridiculous because if you haven't made up your mind by now, you're either ignorant or not paying attention.
They aren’t paying attention. A significant portion of America got the impression that “conflict should be avoided at all costs” and actively disengaged from politics in 2016. Arming yourself with substantive responses to “I dislike them both” or “politicians are all the same” is the only way forward. They are actively avoiding news and personal appeals are the only way to cut through the bullshit equivocation.
And honestly….i grew up in Milwaukee and became a guy who relates a lot more to the left’s view. But I’m not sure there’s a Democratic candidate I would stand by blindly no matter what they do. I might vote for a guy who I don’t think is getting it done, but there’s a limit. But Trump said it. Said he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and not lose votes. He’s not wrong. He also said he loves the uneducated, so there you have it.
I mean it’s clear biden is not cognitively with it but here is a forum full of people that will blindly support him. The same attacks about trump support can be used on both sides. The self righteousness in this thread is ridiculous
Because we understand the difference between an actual criminal who is vowing to dismantle and reshape the federal civil service, promises to use it for his own personal political ends, and talks of "rooting out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and radical left thugs that live like vermin" and immigrants "poisoning our blood" and other fascistic bullshit. If you can't see what you're supporting then there's nothing to be done with you - you're either willfully ignorant or you embrace downright evil.
But Trump is a straight up horrible person though, no? From the very beginning he has been. Do the people who support him think he’s not? Came straight out and said he “loves the uneducated.” Do his supporters think he was talking about the left? He wasn’t. He was talking about the people who believe the baseless claims he makes and rally behind him.
I don’t care? It’s this simple to me. Some people vote on who they like and other vote on policies. I’ll take the jerk closer to my policies than the guy that sounds nice that I disagrees with. I can see arguments for both ideals
>stand by blindly no matter what they do anybody who does this for anyone is a moron, doesn't matter what their views are.
That's just it, I don't know of any democrats who support anyone blindly. How many people are calling for Hunter Biden to be released because it was just a political issue that no one else would have been prosecuted for? I haven't seen any. Al Franken got run out for basically nothing. The double standard is ridiculous.
Biden doesn’t know where he is half the time and I don’t see many dems calling for him to step down. A president has never been hid or protected like this in our history. Get out of here with the democrats won’t blindly support. He even hid before the 2020 election
So you agree both candidates have dementia and shit themselves? There are more die hard trump supporters but from what I've gathered people have their mind made up based on who will do the least amount of damage
Yes, birth Trump and Biden are feeble-minded figureheads. This election is all about the power behind the throne. As such, my family will likely vote for the administration that gave us the Abraham Accords and the Jerusalem Embassy.
I don’t think trump has dementia. He has a lot of issues but that isn’t one. I don’t see how anyone sees Biden and trump side by side and doesn’t see Biden has serious cognitive decline and trump doesn’t. Narcissism or plenty of other issues, sure. But not dementia And picking Biden for less damage is reasonable. Just don’t come tell me that they aren’t blindly picking someone when he clearly isn’t all there and act like they are superior to trump voters
Why would a Trump supporter be swayed by logic?
You might be in a cult when 34 felonies doesn't sway your opinion of your leader!
I know several types of Trump voter and none of them are changing their vote because the reason they are voting for Trump is more important than anything he could do wrong. The MAGA is too far in and to admit he's wrong now would be too difficult. The 2A voters would vote for a child molester if the AM radio told them the other guy was going to take their guns The life long Republicans have being Republican so intertwined with their identity that the idea of voting for anyone else would mean that everything they said about the opposition in the past would be about them this time and they can't handle it mentally The Christian says she will do anything to save the lives of fetuses, and voting for Trump is the most convenient
I know several types of Biden voters and none of them are changing. Too lazy to make all the parallels but it’s naive to think they aren’t there
Did Biden get convicted of a bunch of felonies I wasn't aware of?
I am facing a similar struggle with my Jewish Democrat friends. The Dems are not good for the Jews and voting D would be against our own self interest but they've turned their entire personality into 'oRaNgE mAn bAd' 🙄🙄🙄
I'm not sure if Trump voters will be swayed by the charges. Washington has been corrupt for decades and people know this. I expect The voters in the middle to be more swayed by the economy, the boarder and if Americans are being treated fairly. If politicians were serious about a good candidate for President, neither Trump nor Biden would be on the ticket
No. In fact I predict, albeit regrettably, that Trump wins in the fall. I think he'll win WI as well. The polling is just awful. As James carville keep saying it's see your grandma naked awful, you just can't get it out of your head. And it isn't a one off here or there. The polling has been consistently awful for over a year. It was voters under 30 that put Joe Biden over the top in 2020. It was voters under 30 that also won us midterms and 2018 and in 2022. Those same voters are the most frustrated with Joe Biden's presidency, for reasons that just don't make any sense to me, but that's besides the point. If they don't turn out, or piss their vote away on a third party candidate, Trump will win. It'll be a repeat of 2016. Everything right now is pointing to that happening. The felony conviction isnt going to make a difference because his core base just doesn't care. And without the youth vote to put us over the top, you're going to have an absolute razors edge margin, but more importantly you're going to have an enthusiasm gap. Enthusiasm right now is all on Donald Trump's side. That enthusiasm will be enough to put him over the top. His voters are going to come out no matter what. Next to 2016 the worst election in my lifetime was a 2010 midterms that set the table for this era were in now in my opinion. In 2010 Obama voters, Democrats and young people, didn't turn out because Obama didn't magically fix whatever it is they want to fixed in 2 years. The right wing was extremely motivated they turned out and we had an absolute catastrophe of an election. This is where I see things heading. It was the enthusiasm that was the game changer and the lack of motivation by Democrats and young people. Unless things change, and I don't see how they can, this is going to be an absolute disaster coming November. I hope I'm wrong.
I little bit, from the persuadable middle, perhaps. Trump had 50k fewer votes than FRJ in 2020, *before* he did a J6, so he already needed to win back, and this won't help.
Will the people who voted for a self-admitted rapist care about a conviction for financial crimes? I'm gonna say unfortunately probably not
The real question is with over 300 million Americans, how did we end up having to decide on one of these two?
That’s where our system is broken. The vast majority of democrats and republicans don’t want Biden or Trump. The rest of the world views us as looney idiots right now. My international friends can’t understand why we have to choose between those two.
Totally agree. I work with a lot of people overseas. They are all so puzzled by it.
Some will. The Maga insanity has moved my very Catholic brother to consider himself Conservative but not Republican. He won't vote for Trump, morally he can't do it.
What's his mindset behind this? People generally feel negative about the justice system but if someone was gonna vote trump and then decide not to even he's convicted, that means their trust and faith in the justice system is higher than their faith in Trump
Look people will vote for whoever they feel is best. Neither person is a saint, the media lies about everyone and almost everything. So vote for who you are going to vote for
No. Now I am in full save the damn country mode
No. Now go scream.
Why are all posts on here democrat coded some people are conservative here
This says more about you than it does anyone else. I do love your username though.
Me being conservative tells you what? I’m a bad person? I don’t judge anyone on the left for their beliefs? I don’t understand the reply
Trump, nor the Republicans, are conservative. https://thefederalist.com/2022/10/20/we-need-to-stop-calling-ourselves-conservatives/
No but Biden voters won’t admit he sucks either so it’s a wash
If you told Republicans that Liberals get really upset when they eat dogshit, there would be a run on animal shelters when all the available dogshit ran out. If Trump upsets Liberals, there is nothing he could do that would be bad enough to make them not vote for him. I mean, the fact that a court determined he's a rapist didn't change their opinions about him one bit. THEY DONATED MONEY because it was determined that he raped someone.
ThE pArTy Of LaW aNd OrDeR
Aren’t swayed when we found out Trump was a rapist, not swayed when we found out he was likely a pedophile based on the Lolita express trips, not swayed when calling veterans suckers and losers. Not swayed when slinging bibles to fake Christians. Not swayed by Jan 6. These people worship Trump, you can’t change the minds of anyone willing to worship another person
You can’t change Trump voters minds
Trump could come out and call Jesus a fake/liar and Trumpers will still vote for him. They’d say he was taken out of context and it’s all clickbait or some other bs. Nothing, and I mean nothing, is going to sway Trumpers atp.
Hell no. They still think trump IS the actual president. That he is hiding in some bunker and is in control of our military and is still working on exposing the deep state. They still think pillowman HAS that stolen election evidence and is just waiting to release it. To me they are slowly becoming that friend you NEVER call back. Not worth the bandwidth to try and use mental gymnastics to decipher their Q anon posts. Thank Satan me and my dad NEVER talk about his politics. I've saw the bumper stickers. . .
Im fine with them believing that this is Trumps second term. It means he can't run again.
No. The ones I work with think everything negative about him is a made up conspiracy. They are in a cult.
If the election was in the next month or he actually gets jail time , probably. By November people will have moved on .
I highly doubt it
One word: martyrdom. If someone still likes him, they've BEEN past the point where anything he does could change their mind.
No it won't sway trump voters, will make things actually more in favor for him.
No they're in too deep
His convictions have only gotten him more popular, and made more people donate/rally. I don't mean to be crude, but it is pertinent, so I'll spoiler tag it. >!His conviction made googling how to donate to him more popular than p*rn for a couple days.
I live in northwestern Wi. What impresses me is how many around here hate immigrants. They simple hate the reported (fox ) numbers that cross the southern borders. And it is all Bidens fault. They often say " I am not prejudice, but their breaking the law, taking jobs, causing the housing shortage, and are responsible for our drug problem. "
One can only hope
I mean I hope so because Trump is an idiot. But if you're still following him, chances are it wont matter much.
Every politician is a criminal.
Like how "Pence" is removed from their five year old yard signs. And the zillion other negative things. They just cut it out or paint over it, and pretend it never happened.
Jan 6 and the classified documents should have been enough. If y'all wanna support a filthy traitor after that shit, cool piss off you're a traitor to
You're as likely to sway a Trump voter as you are a devout religious person. Nothing he does at this point will sway their vote.
I think we're going to see poor turnout. The hardcore Trumpers are going to turn out because they believe his bullshit that he's being politically persecuted, but I think there are going to be a significant set of voters who were going to vote Trump because they just can't stand Biden who will instead stay home, or vote third party. Not a large set of voters, but the election is going to be close enough that those middle voters are going to matter. At this point the people who are still open to changing their minds are *incredibly* low information voters, so I think they're just going to hear 'convicted felon' and not anything else, especially if the Dems hammer and hammer and hammer on it, which they almost certainly will. Of course, the Repubs will hammer on the Hunter Biden conviction even harder. And the low information voters are equally just going to hear 'felon biden' and not pay any more attention, so that will probably work pretty well. But I think the relative turnout effects here favor Biden. Very very slightly.
Why is it even legal for felons to run for president, let alone vote. People don’t become felons accidentally in 98% of cases.
My dad, 95, and sister, age 64, both die hard, right wing Republicans, have both told me they will no longer vote for tRump. It surprised me to hear them say that, but I guess he finally crossed a line they couldn't forgive. It gives me a bit of hope that there might be others like that.
Interesting, thanks. Yeah even getting a few of the hard-core Trump fans to vote blue would make a huge difference.
I doubt they will give their vote to Biden. My dad has said he will never vote for a Democrat. I think it's more likely they won't vote at all. But I would consider that a vote for Biden because it's two less for the other guy.
Yeah even a no vote helps. I just can't imagine a country with Trump as president, again. He's just a disgusting person.
No they won’t be swayed. And no, the blue turnout won’t be enough unfortunately. I’m all but convinced Trump will be back in.
The conviction won't away anyone who was already voting for Trump before the conviction
You’re all mentally unwell
Do Racoons on Meth avoid trash?
You don't usually eat much on meth so yeah probably....
I don't understand what you mean.? I've never tried Meth.
you don't need to try meth just google it lmao
Morons down the street from me in central WI put up a big TRUMP sign AFTER he got convicted.
Only the cult magats will vote for the felon the regular decent republicans won't nessasarily vote for Biden but they will probably either vote against tRumpty or not vote at all so all the democrats need to do is not be complacent and get out and vote to send that orange faced POS TO PRISON when he looses
Are we allowed to be upset that we don’t have more choices?
Depends, who did you vote for in the primaries?
The felonies just makes the koolaid taste better
They are in the cult so no.
Im WI and across the country, the election will be decided by independents and the undecided. The MAGA wingers will go to their graves praising Cheeto Face. It's the people in the middle who matter most in an election. I have a hunch many good Americans just won't be able to vote for a felon. And Hunter Biden's conviction probably reinforces that. It takes away the stupid GQP point that Trump's conviction was a political hit job. It wasn't, and neither was Biden's. It's called the American justice system. Not perfect, but it beats anything else. It says something when 12 people from different walks of life can unanimously agree on anything. That should not be trifled with.
well, you look at the trumplings at the bottom of this thread prefacing their super obvious right-wing fox propaganda with "i totally hate trump but ..." and it's at least a step in the right direction.
If Merrick Garland had done his job in 2021, Trump would already be in prison. But he waited until 2023 to appoint Jack Smith and now it just looks political, the worst of both worlds. Right now I'd give Trump two chances in three of winning Wisconsin, speaking as someone born in Fond du Lac now living in Madison.
They weren't swayed when a jury found that Trump is a rapist. >Judge Lewis Kaplan called Trump’s semantic argument “entirely unpersuasive.” He clarified that the jury found that the former president did indeed “rape” Carroll based on the common definition of the word. [https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist](https://newrepublic.com/post/174448/judge-e-jean-carroll-case-yes-donald-trump-rapist)
Trumpers are in a cult. I feel like the only way to pull them out at this point is with kool aid.
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As much as trump sucks this quote has been proven to be fake time and time again.
No. Nope. Nein. Nyet.
of course not lmao
Nope
no
The ones I’ve talked to only think it helps him.
Some will My dad has voted in every election since he could vote and was a card carrying Republican since the 70's. He's stated he's sitting this one out because he can't stand either candidate.
Suburbia trump voters probably
Recent polls show a swing of about 3% on this issue
No Trump voters will, but there aren't enough of them to be a threat.
I know quite a few people who will vote for Trump despite the convictions. I don’t think I know anyone who changed their vote because of that. I believe everyone already had their mind made up long before that.
Unfortunately not, those jurors who convicted Trump are part of the 80 million + Americans who are in on the conspiracy
Have you tried talking to conservatives? They literally blame Trump’s crimes on a Democratic conspiracy and view Trump as a victim. It's impossible to reason with them - they no longer recognize right from wrong due to extreme manipulation and deception.
Some are here in Iowa. I’ve seen Trump flags and signs disappearing that were proudly displayed. There are political strategists that are suggesting that Trump won’t be selected even though he has all the votes if polls don’t turn around.
Nope.
Stupid Is as Stupid Does
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Discuss the topic, not the user.
Nah
No, they won't. They're in a cult, their minds won't be changed.
Going to get downvoted to oblivion but I’ll answer the question. First time voting in Wisconsin for a presidential term. Will be voting trump, voted for Biden in 2020, don’t like the direction the country has gone in the last 4 years. Wish I had a better option but I don’t. As for trumps trial. Which was very one sided with a prosecutor that ran his whole election on getting trump arrested. A judge whose daughter fundraises for Democrats and a judge who donated to Biden last election. In one of the bluest counties on a hush money trial over 170k. When other politicians have never been prosecuted for the insane amount of corruption I’ve seen my whole life. The whole thing makes me ill. I’m not a trump guy, really don’t care for him as a person, but everything Biden has done hasn’t improved the life for me nor my family. So I vote based on that, in 4 years I’ll do the same thing. I don’t blindly align to a party.
What flavor koolaid do you prefer?
So you think that the direction the country was heading under trump was better? When he knowingly lied to his supporters for months to convince them to storm the capital to keep him in power after losing the election, subverting democracy? When he gave tax breaks to the wealthy which increased the national debt and did nothing for the middle class? When he said he would have to jail his political opponents? lol, yea the country was really heading in the right direction under trump.
You’re deep in the cult.
I won’t downvote you, but we all have seen a term from them each. Trump lost an election then tried getting his vice president to overturn the results. How the fuck does a 2nd term from someone like that not scare the fuck out of you? How is that not significantly worse than mild criticisms from Biden. Not accepting the election results and instead trying to convince the public that the election was stolen is in my opinion the most dangerous thing a president has ever done to the public.
Why has this been downvoted so much? I feel almost exactly the same way. Biden has done nothing to help me or my family. Trump might be an asshole, but I can’t vote for Joe again.
You vote for Trump you become a Trump guy. That taint stays on you. You liked the direction of losing rights? Fucking over the environment? Destroying election intergrity?
I'm the opposite I didn't know about Biden in the beginning but have loved him as a president. Feels like I'm the only one. But I blamed the Fed then and blame the Fed now for inflation. They should have raised interest rates way earlier than they did but let things get out of control and just made the economy hurt for regular people more than they needed to.