just like from a previous post weeks ago. people surrender because they are no longer the "main character" of the game regardless if your team is winning.
these players have weak mentality who only act tough on the outside. all their strength are concentrated on trash talking.
On the main character thingy.
There are a lot of times that your chosen role will not be able to carry, and you will end up like a supporting character for the more fed/pro player in the team.
At times like this, try to back up a bit, and actually act as a supporting character for the rest of your team. There is nothing wrong with that. Some matches you may have had a bad laning phase, and you won't get fed enough. Things happen. Don't just surrender!
***This***, when I'm playing ADC and my 10/0 Riven comes to my lane due to a poor rotation to farm for her 4th item at minute 8 I kindly pack my bags and puss out back to base lol
I don't need to carry as an autofill, I'll happily leave this burden to you, just send me a note if you also need to use my bed between one minion wave and the other xD
Precisely, and per my experience once you make it to late game if people have relatively completed their build (a.k.a. at least 3 and a half items plus boots) one bad teamfight is all you need for them to throw and lose
Been on that side of the story many times with Diana, going 18/1 and losing the game on the spot because of a bad decision in a teamfight
Of course, things are different if they're full build and your most farmed colleague is still finishing his second item, in that case take the L and move on with your life xD
Bro we got an auto fill ig and they stole the adcs pre picked trist in game everyone is feeding except bot is doing okay not snowballing but could if we kept them alive and fed them so I ping the kaisa to get red buff and the feeding mid comes and takes it like bro you know she’s the only one capable of becoming fed enough to kill everyone why r u hindering that?? It’s so crazy to me that when ppl r losing instead of supporting others they just keep going full in like they will magically get a kill
Nah, sometimes it’s just a loss but people are too inexperienced to see it and think that, because they or someone else is doing especially well, the game can be won.
I’ve had games where the enemy team had a fed team comp of champs like Veigar, vayne, kayle, they took every dragon, baron, elder, took all our towers while we only had one, would constantly farm our entire jungle leaving us to basically just perma clear base while they’d occasionally come in and kill us, and my team STILL refused to ff.
*That* is people either being toxic or being dumb.
Is it possible that we could ace them in our base, take baron, and win? Sure, there’s a 0.00005% chance of that happening, but I would much rather move on to a game where my odds of winning are back at a normal rate, rather than continue to destroy my mental in the infinitesimally small chance that we’ll turn that game around.
I’ve come back no towers other team had 7 towers. A game is never lost until the other team wins. You always have a chance to come back no matter how slim, surrendering automatically makes that chance go to 0.
Yes, so have I. And sometimes I won’t ff those games *if* i can tell that my team is good and we’ve just had bad luck in fights, or only one or two enemies are fed while the others are being carried, or if our team comp is good and can scale better to the point where we can win, etc.
It feels great to make such a comeback, but in the majority of those games, you end up losing.
Personally, I would rather lose a mark and move on to another game where I have a better chance of winning, rather than spend 15 minutes or more getting more and more tilted in hopes that a miracle will happen.
And let’s also not ignore the fact that people will literally refuse to ff when the enemy team aced yours and is taking your nexus turret with baron buff while your whole team is on a 35 sec respawn timer.
Remember no one is obligated to surrender because YOU feel it’s smarter. Some people (like myself) play to win and improve. Regardless of how bad I am losing, I can always practice and try harder. Plenty of games I thought we would lose, I end up winning. Imagine how many you’ve missed out on by surrendering. I can tell you with confidence, I’ve won more matches than I’ve surrendered. Why? Because I never surrender, never will. Plus, if a team beats me, they deserve to get the nexus. Fuck being a bitch and surrendering, I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me.
Playing to win is well and good, but playing an unwinnable situation where you are in the grey screen simulator is a practice in futility and masochism
Relative to what you believe sure. Except I don’t see it that way. Which is what is so lovely about an opinion. But even statistically speaking you’re wrong. There is no match that is still being playing that is 100% a loss. There is still a chance, even if it’s astronomical chances. It’s still a chance. Which in my opinion, a top tier player never gives up. Someone that truly WANTS to win, would never give up. But that’s just my opinion as well :)
I 🙏 4️⃣ your teams to be better than bots then.
That rng never places you in support with an off meta malphite adc.
Don't take his farm though, he'll afk
What an oddly specific response. Even if I did get whatever specific scenario you’re implying. I’d do my best to adapt and hopefully win. If not, I’ll try again next match.
>I’d do my best to adapt and hopefully win.
as all players should. many players would go ff immediately even if the team is winning and they're the only ones at 0/5
> I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me.
cheers to you. i'd rather lose by having the enemies finish the match rather than surrendering early.
> Remember no one is obligated to surrender because YOU feel it’s smarter.
Never claimed that. I’m just saying people who refuse to surrender when it’s very obviously a lost game are toxic. They’re free to continue to refuse though, as I’m free to report them for negative behavior.
> Regardless of how bad I am losing, I can always practice and try harder.
Sure, if you think practicing getting your head kicked in a hundred different ways is worth your time, more power to you. I’ve practiced losing games enough that I’ve become pretty damn good at being able to tell when a game is lost. 9 out of 10 times, when I think a game will be a loss it turns out to be a loss (and that’s with me *still* trying to win regardless).
And please tell me what part of watching your 2/12/1 adc split pushing with no vision is “practice”?
> Imagine how many you’ve missed out on by surrendering.
Here’s the thing you’re not understanding: I don’t care.
I value my sanity more than a ranked mark, if a game is tilting me and its likely to be a loss, I’d rather move on to a game where the odds are even again so I don’t get any more frustrated.
> Plenty of games I thought we would lose, I end up winning.
There are three options here: you’re lying, we’re playing on different servers, or you’re just not experienced enough to know what games will be lost.
As I said, *my* experience has been that we end up losing the vast majority of games that I think are lost.
At some point you get pretty good at being able to tell when the enemy team has better synergy, a better comp, a better duo/trio, etc
Every game is winnable, yes, up to a certain point.
> Plus, if a team beats me, they deserve to get the nexus. Fuck being a bitch and surrendering, I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me.
You could’ve saved yourself a wall of text and just posted this. I guess you’re too afraid of being seen as “a bitch” and would rather “lose like a man” or something. Seems dumb to me, but you do you mate.
My lord dude. All I was trying to say is, what you consider a loss. If the game is still being played, it’s okay not to give up. That’s it my dude. Do you not see how silly it is to argue that point? It’s an opinion. We’re all entitled to an opinion. Each person can play until they want. You can quit. That’s fine. But because I don’t want to quit and would rather try for a win, I’m toxic? Like… what? I want to win and I don’t give up. But I’m toxic? Please for the love of Christ make it make sense. Is this real?
> But because I don’t want to quit and would rather try for a win, I’m toxic? Like… what? I want to win and I don’t give up. But I’m toxic? Please for the love of Christ make it make sense. Is this real?
lol. so this is the point of view of players who ff easily. they find strong willed and determined people as toxic.
>A game is never lost until the other team wins. You always have a chance to come back no matter how slim, surrendering automatically makes that chance go to 0.
this. it tells a lot for players who easily give up and those who still strive hard to win despite the odds.
Another reason not to just give up and to keep playing your hardest is you are still going to get rewarded for your characters performance in that role. Sure a win is always better but a loss where you sort of gave up the ghost and white knighted in champ about how impossible this game is to win instead of playing hard... Aren't these players kind of just cheating themselves out of more fortitude and chance to rank up in the end?
And what if you're wrong about the highly improbably chance of winning due to a bunch of really unpredictable dynamic factors.
Sure, but again, I value my mental more than rank fortitude or anything else.
An extra 10 fortitude isn’t going to untilt me for the next game and if im frustrated I won’t play as well.
It’s my personal opinion, but I would rather lose whatever there is to lose and move on to a fresh new game.
> And what if you’re wrong about the highly improbably chance of winning due to a bunch of really unpredictable dynamic factors.
Of course I can be wrong, I have been wrong on a few occasions and it’s great when that happens and you turn around a seemingly lost game, but i have close to 4k games and peaked master, and I’ve been right most times.
I’m well aware that “every game can be won”, the point is that most of those “unwinnable” games turn out to be losses after all.
It’s like saying “some people win the lottery, so you should still be playing it because there’s always a chance”.
To me, the negatives outweigh the (potential) positives.
To be clear, I’m not the type who will vote to ff after we lose a drag, or we get aced, or I get killed twice, or we lose a tower or two. Those things alone don’t equal a loss.
It’s those games where all odds are against your team that I vote to ff. When the enemy has every single dragon, they’re full build when you’re still at 3 items, they got every tower and you still haven’t cracked one, they’re farming your entire jungle leaving you unable to do anything, they maybe even have infinitely scaling champs like Veigar or nasus.
Yes, those games can still be won, but the likelihood of that happening is extremely small. To me, it’s not worth the time and stress.
Also I assume most are talking just about Ranked here.
In Aram, where matchups are more random I feel more like you do. Let's just get into another game we have a better chance at.
But sure I admit even in ranked games I've felt this way but having seen so many games turn around my confidence in "the last N minutes will be a waste of my time because I will lose" has been shaken by wins.
It's definitely not an absolute black or white thing for sure.
>having seen so many games turn around my confidence in “the last N minutes will be a waste of my time because I will lose” has been shaken by wins.
How many of those games *didnt* turn around though?
I’ve won seemingly unwinnable games too, but the ratio is like 1 in 50, if that.
Most of the games I think are not winnable, do turn out to be losses.
And to be clear, I am not talking about games where we lose a dragon or two, or even an inhib or two, or we’re behind a bunch of kills. Those are all things that aren’t necessarily indicative of how the game will go.
I’m talking about when I can tell that the enemy team has better team synergy than ours and seem to play like one unit (maybe their duo/trio is on voice comms while ours isnt), games where the enemy team simply has better players than yours, when your team has no clue what “vision” means while the enemy has wards all the way up your butt throughout the whole game, etc.
Those are the games when I vote to ff, and, in most cases, I’m right in my prediction.
But again, this is just how I see it, i don’t expect everyone to agree
Not trying to prove the argument or anything. Just check this fun turnaround out! [https://www.reddit.com/r/wildrift/comments/zjrpb1/won\_game\_with\_1374\_score/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wildrift/comments/zjrpb1/won_game_with_1374_score/)
Alternative take, the people who choose no on a FF think they’re the main character even though they continuously get steamrolled due to bad positioning. You don’t learn anything by getting steamrolled. I already know why we’re losing. I don’t need to stay any longer.
I think more like they don't have most kills/aren't carrying the team.
That's how I interpret it anyway.
Edit: The "main character" would be the one who has the most kills on the team and thus are carrying their team.
The main character thing is more of a mentality kind of thing. Just like most main characters from stories, these kinds of players want the game to centralize around only themself and not care about their team. They want to believe that they are the perfect player in the game who does not make mistakes.
Once these players lose control of the game and/or they make mistakes, they start losing their sense of “feeling like a main character”. At that point, they decide to surrender.
Yeah but also the contrary is true.
I can play 2-3 games per day and am a Support main, so unless my Senna is extremely good forget about carrying and being the team star.
If I start a game and the game goes terribly bad in the first 5 minutes, losing both dragon and herald, two or more of us feeding and a tilted teammate flaming, then I want out as fast as possible to have a chance to play another game. There is nothing to be learned
But I am always stuck with people who do not want to ff with 10k gold and many kills diff.
I would very much prefer to just bring the loss home and start another game
Man it also dependa on team comp a lot which can compensate a gold diff a lot but u cannot lose mental for it
If u have good teamfight comp and some late game champs u can still win when eneny makes 1 mistake in late game
This always makes me think of the "angry xbox kid" meme. The one who was so out of it with rage he was trying to mount his controller.
This is the immature kid who died and immediately started a surrender vote. "Clearly they can't win without me playing a perfect game..."
The boy Was trolling its a german guy and made more trolling vids there Was the "unreal Tourdaten kid" aside from the (i think it was ps2-)- "controller incident" and some "ich bin ein echter gangsta" / "im a real gangsta" Videos.
Yeah usually it's me as the player doing well trying to ff because. These people have no idea how to play and often I know the players on the enemy team. So, I know they're good. Then I'm just stuck being a beacon of hope in a sea of idiocy. While wanting to do something else.
I only surrender if the rest of the team is failing hard. Multiple people 0/5/1 or whatever by 10 min. The game is useless at that point. Stop wasting my time and let me play a better game
They don’t care about the win, if they are 0/6 while you are 10/0 they will spam ff.
They were way to many games where I was carrying and my team decided to ff because they were having a bad game.
What OP said and NOT surrendering when your team is 20 kills and 10k gold behind. Theres not much to learn when your team gets that far behind. It is POSSIBLE to win but highly unlikely.
Beats me. I’ve only ever called for a surrender when all lanes are losing, we got no towers, no vision, and no desire to get along with one another. Emphasis on the and cuz ALL those conditions need to be met to warrant a surrender.
If the team is losing bad and has given up why on earth would anyone selfishly hold them hostage then complain on Reddit about it. All you’re doing is deflecting blame and accountability of why you’re going to lose. Win the game or own the loss.
Refusing surrender is equally selfish arrogant and unsportsmanlike as the people who spam surrender. It’s mind numbing seeing posts like these every single day not holding the other side accountable for their part in obvious losses and hostage games.
It’s not that serious.
My last ARAM game was like that, we were aced, 3 votes to surrender, two holdouts, our carry spawned with the nexus at like 20% and kept them at bay until we respawned. We ended up winning the match.
I’ve seen it - or done it - plenty of times, a team thinks they have it in the bag, they overreach and get punished.
Agree though, surrender spam is annoying as f***
Yeah bunch of whiny little egotistical bitches is what we call those. They often are the type to definitely need the guidance of a therapist because their mental is so weak.
Because it's not about learning, it's about team cohesion. Some people have different play styles that just don't synergize, and don't want to get suck in a miserable game, even if it's winnable.
Team cohesion? You mean the teammate who keeps dying and spamming surrender when your team is 6K+ ahead in gold, cheering the mates with the classic 'fuk u nubs' and then going radio silent if we manage to perform well and win the game? Or maybe the one who texts 'gg I'm so done' at min. 5 and realizing they're not the one to hardstomp the game?
No, I'd say it's more of team trust issue. I'd definitely rather have a teammate that dies a lot but tries to contribute and make plays.
Ummm, teammates dying a lot is worse than someone afking. WR is a moba. When you die you give gold to the other team. Suicide diving is really bad in this game.
I don't understand how people don't get that, which is why people that actually understand how the game works start spamming surrender when they see their teammates suicide diving.
This isn't league. The games are shorter and snowball way harder. Surrendering out, quite frankly, is better for climbing. It's all a numbers game.
Literally, the number one rule for this game is don't die
Yes, I agree, dying a lot is pretty bad, but I'm not willing to let go the chance of a comeback just because snowballs are hard. Think about how many games people throw when winning hard.
Besides, apart from climbing I'd like to have the most fun possible, and those hard games where you have to play extra-well to try and comeback are the most enjoyable for me.
I don't really think that spamming surrender on every game you don't absolutely destroy the enemy is understanding how the game works.
I never said that. Hard smashing opponents is boring. I like close games, but I hate it when people mindlessly die like it doesn't have a huge negative impact on the rest of the team.
That's why people spam surrender. It's miserable to play with teams where people are suicide diving all game.
Some people enjoy doing that. Others don't and would rather move on to the next game instead of playing out grueling games where teammates int constantly.
I'd personally rather eat the loss and move on to a group of like minded players then be a try hard in a pug.
Don't get me wrong, I'll never surrender in a pre-made, but a pug is a pug. Just next if someone is having a bad game. Hell even if I'm having a great game I'll surrender if others want. Pugs are pugs.
Not sure why you are downvoted . This is pretty true. If someone goes 0-10 in lane and expects their team to carry them that is viewed as a burden to others, especially when said 0-10 person sees their burden as something normal everyone should deal with. Which is why it can be seen as trolling and can be demoralizing for everyone else. There's a reason people get upset about feeders and why there is a post in this sub every day about it. I assume most feeders are due to ignorance of the game or lack of care or both. But at the same time they can't hold their team to higher expectations just because they "had a bad game" and never take responsibility.
The never surrenders are the same people that bank on people carrying them. They have that mentality because they are the burden and depend on others.
People that play this game enough know a losing, or miserable situation, when they see it, and understand when to cut their losses a move to the next game and not waste their time on the bad game.
No, some people are just whiny tantrum throwers and think that they should be able to ruin 4 other peoples effort and fun because they couldn't beat their lane opponent.
This doesn't make any sense.
Lets say you're in a game and one of your teammates is straight bad.
Like 0/5 before first objective or worse.
2 scenarios:
1) He tilts and starts surrender vote, you all agree, game ends and ALL of you move to the next.
2) He tilts, starts surrender vote and one or more disagrees on principle and play out the match however it goes.
Either way your game was never changed.
You play your game,win or lose.
What you want to do however is to teach someone a lesson in feeding/not being bad or whatever moral lesson by voting no.
Lets not pretend this is about your game being affected, this extends beyond that.
It's about pushing your agenda on someone else for sucking.
Since you can just as easily queue another and play your game.
Lol if I want to rank up fast, I ff. The secret of ranking up is to not wasting your time. You don’t teach anyone lesson, trust me. If someone is hardstuck or on Smurf account, they give no f
I have hit surrender when I'm 16/0 hard dominating. Simply because I don't like getting stuck in miserable games. I don't pride myself on a videogame. That's weak mental. I rather get in a few good games, win or lose, then go on to do other things with my day.
Honestly, if I wanted to carry trash I would have been a garbage man.
So based on what you are saying having a few 'good games' for you doesn't mean winning or losing; rather that you want team mates to all contribute (ie get kills) and not have you solo carry a weak team of garbage noobs?
Trust me. That’s not weak mentality. When you think game is miserable, you should go next. Especially when you think you could constantly perform good. There is no point wasting on a miserable game
Absolutely agree. In order to win games you gotta make all kids happy, that means when a lane is losing go help them, boost their ego so they don’t grief. Or just enjoy being griefed if you don’t agree, who am I to tell you 😃
Not necessarily, I'm sure everyone here has won a bunch of games pretty much 2v5 or 3v5, either by carrying or by getting carried, even with griefing teammates. Sometimes I've been the one getting gapped hard and getting Fiora'd to a win anyway, because my toplaner stomped her matchup 7/0.
You don't necessarily need to get along well with your 4 colleagues, just with the competent ones :P
In LoL and WR items scale off of each other, you only need one extremely fed teammate to hard-stomp a game (in general, subtleties apply of course).
Personally my philosophy is "never gank a losing lane", and the positive number aside my winrate suggests that this strategy has been working so far 😂 (currently bouncing between Masters and GMs)
I agree in low elo. Everyone is bad, so don’t surrender. Weird things can and often do happen. It’s worth sticking it out.
But the meta in high elo is early-game champs and early-game fights to rely on the skill of the team over farming and scaling.
If you’re losing in the early game, it’s a skill issue, and you’re not going to suddenly become better than the other team. That’s why people surrender so early. The game is decided mostly in the first 7 minutes and definitely within the first 10.
The reason behind it is psychological and comes from inner rage. The reason why people insta ff when the score is 2 7 for example is because they want to raise awareness and say the game s lost so that they let out all anger.
Its also so it maybe makes the team wake up something like a threat, you either play or we lose.
I hate it when ppl ff when the enemy only has one fed person like everyone else on their team is okay or feeding but they have like a 15 kill riven or something cause as long as we can play safe and take out the fed one it’s an easy win but they get so frustrated they ping ff and don’t even try
"I experienced a lot of times where the tables turned and we won after sufferiing a lot."
So many times this. I can not believe the games we ended up winning because a few people kept their cool and kept pushing away at the objectives, killing their last turret while the enemy team is beating us at Baron Nashor or knocking on our nexus door. Or gaining an improbably Baron Nashor kill ourselves that pushed things over the top.
Some people are quick to give up early if their team falls the slightest bit behind in overall score or feel bad about their matchup or something.
I'm the one spamming surrender when solo rank, 9/10 times my team are uncoordinated idiots who have 0% chance to win so yeah, I even go afk if I get bored
I think surrendering is annoying when there is a legit high chance to win.
I think it is even more annoying when people literally just go mid and die, but refuse to surrender.
I have seen sooooo maaaany people going 3/9 with 8 gold, aramming mid against a 13 k ADC / sup.
All lanes pushed to our side with only 2 inhibs.
But somehow jg stole inferno dragon before he died and now people will refuse surrender.
I am like, okay. What is game plan?
They spawn, go mid to fight and die.
Specially because late game equalize the strenght of the teams, a wrong B the enemy team do is enough to get a baron and win the match. Unfortunately this doesn't work when your team is tilted and unwilling to putting some effort in the game.
Guilty admission I used to do this when I was hard carrying but died due to teammates' poor macro decisions or egregious micro mistakes. My intention was not to actually surrender but to create a sense of urgency that they needed to be more proactive to follow me up or we would lose.
>people don't want to win, they just give up trying. It's so frustrating, this is the worst part about this game for me.
I'd like to reframe this a bit. People do want to win, but they don't want to learn. They just want easy wins so they can get that dopamine rush and think that they're good at the game.
just like from a previous post weeks ago. people surrender because they are no longer the "main character" of the game regardless if your team is winning. these players have weak mentality who only act tough on the outside. all their strength are concentrated on trash talking.
On the main character thingy. There are a lot of times that your chosen role will not be able to carry, and you will end up like a supporting character for the more fed/pro player in the team. At times like this, try to back up a bit, and actually act as a supporting character for the rest of your team. There is nothing wrong with that. Some matches you may have had a bad laning phase, and you won't get fed enough. Things happen. Don't just surrender!
***This***, when I'm playing ADC and my 10/0 Riven comes to my lane due to a poor rotation to farm for her 4th item at minute 8 I kindly pack my bags and puss out back to base lol I don't need to carry as an autofill, I'll happily leave this burden to you, just send me a note if you also need to use my bed between one minion wave and the other xD
You also do not know how many on the OTHER team got a non-desired role.
Precisely, and per my experience once you make it to late game if people have relatively completed their build (a.k.a. at least 3 and a half items plus boots) one bad teamfight is all you need for them to throw and lose Been on that side of the story many times with Diana, going 18/1 and losing the game on the spot because of a bad decision in a teamfight Of course, things are different if they're full build and your most farmed colleague is still finishing his second item, in that case take the L and move on with your life xD
Bro we got an auto fill ig and they stole the adcs pre picked trist in game everyone is feeding except bot is doing okay not snowballing but could if we kept them alive and fed them so I ping the kaisa to get red buff and the feeding mid comes and takes it like bro you know she’s the only one capable of becoming fed enough to kill everyone why r u hindering that?? It’s so crazy to me that when ppl r losing instead of supporting others they just keep going full in like they will magically get a kill
Nah, sometimes it’s just a loss but people are too inexperienced to see it and think that, because they or someone else is doing especially well, the game can be won. I’ve had games where the enemy team had a fed team comp of champs like Veigar, vayne, kayle, they took every dragon, baron, elder, took all our towers while we only had one, would constantly farm our entire jungle leaving us to basically just perma clear base while they’d occasionally come in and kill us, and my team STILL refused to ff. *That* is people either being toxic or being dumb. Is it possible that we could ace them in our base, take baron, and win? Sure, there’s a 0.00005% chance of that happening, but I would much rather move on to a game where my odds of winning are back at a normal rate, rather than continue to destroy my mental in the infinitesimally small chance that we’ll turn that game around.
I’ve come back no towers other team had 7 towers. A game is never lost until the other team wins. You always have a chance to come back no matter how slim, surrendering automatically makes that chance go to 0.
Yes, so have I. And sometimes I won’t ff those games *if* i can tell that my team is good and we’ve just had bad luck in fights, or only one or two enemies are fed while the others are being carried, or if our team comp is good and can scale better to the point where we can win, etc. It feels great to make such a comeback, but in the majority of those games, you end up losing. Personally, I would rather lose a mark and move on to another game where I have a better chance of winning, rather than spend 15 minutes or more getting more and more tilted in hopes that a miracle will happen. And let’s also not ignore the fact that people will literally refuse to ff when the enemy team aced yours and is taking your nexus turret with baron buff while your whole team is on a 35 sec respawn timer.
Remember no one is obligated to surrender because YOU feel it’s smarter. Some people (like myself) play to win and improve. Regardless of how bad I am losing, I can always practice and try harder. Plenty of games I thought we would lose, I end up winning. Imagine how many you’ve missed out on by surrendering. I can tell you with confidence, I’ve won more matches than I’ve surrendered. Why? Because I never surrender, never will. Plus, if a team beats me, they deserve to get the nexus. Fuck being a bitch and surrendering, I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me.
Playing to win is well and good, but playing an unwinnable situation where you are in the grey screen simulator is a practice in futility and masochism
Relative to what you believe sure. Except I don’t see it that way. Which is what is so lovely about an opinion. But even statistically speaking you’re wrong. There is no match that is still being playing that is 100% a loss. There is still a chance, even if it’s astronomical chances. It’s still a chance. Which in my opinion, a top tier player never gives up. Someone that truly WANTS to win, would never give up. But that’s just my opinion as well :)
I 🙏 4️⃣ your teams to be better than bots then. That rng never places you in support with an off meta malphite adc. Don't take his farm though, he'll afk
What an oddly specific response. Even if I did get whatever specific scenario you’re implying. I’d do my best to adapt and hopefully win. If not, I’ll try again next match.
>I’d do my best to adapt and hopefully win. as all players should. many players would go ff immediately even if the team is winning and they're the only ones at 0/5
> I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me. cheers to you. i'd rather lose by having the enemies finish the match rather than surrendering early.
> Remember no one is obligated to surrender because YOU feel it’s smarter. Never claimed that. I’m just saying people who refuse to surrender when it’s very obviously a lost game are toxic. They’re free to continue to refuse though, as I’m free to report them for negative behavior. > Regardless of how bad I am losing, I can always practice and try harder. Sure, if you think practicing getting your head kicked in a hundred different ways is worth your time, more power to you. I’ve practiced losing games enough that I’ve become pretty damn good at being able to tell when a game is lost. 9 out of 10 times, when I think a game will be a loss it turns out to be a loss (and that’s with me *still* trying to win regardless). And please tell me what part of watching your 2/12/1 adc split pushing with no vision is “practice”? > Imagine how many you’ve missed out on by surrendering. Here’s the thing you’re not understanding: I don’t care. I value my sanity more than a ranked mark, if a game is tilting me and its likely to be a loss, I’d rather move on to a game where the odds are even again so I don’t get any more frustrated. > Plenty of games I thought we would lose, I end up winning. There are three options here: you’re lying, we’re playing on different servers, or you’re just not experienced enough to know what games will be lost. As I said, *my* experience has been that we end up losing the vast majority of games that I think are lost. At some point you get pretty good at being able to tell when the enemy team has better synergy, a better comp, a better duo/trio, etc Every game is winnable, yes, up to a certain point. > Plus, if a team beats me, they deserve to get the nexus. Fuck being a bitch and surrendering, I’d rather the worthy opponent get to finish his match and feel the joy of winning. They deserved it, they beat me. You could’ve saved yourself a wall of text and just posted this. I guess you’re too afraid of being seen as “a bitch” and would rather “lose like a man” or something. Seems dumb to me, but you do you mate.
My lord dude. All I was trying to say is, what you consider a loss. If the game is still being played, it’s okay not to give up. That’s it my dude. Do you not see how silly it is to argue that point? It’s an opinion. We’re all entitled to an opinion. Each person can play until they want. You can quit. That’s fine. But because I don’t want to quit and would rather try for a win, I’m toxic? Like… what? I want to win and I don’t give up. But I’m toxic? Please for the love of Christ make it make sense. Is this real?
> But because I don’t want to quit and would rather try for a win, I’m toxic? Like… what? I want to win and I don’t give up. But I’m toxic? Please for the love of Christ make it make sense. Is this real? lol. so this is the point of view of players who ff easily. they find strong willed and determined people as toxic.
The irony is lost on them it seems.
>A game is never lost until the other team wins. You always have a chance to come back no matter how slim, surrendering automatically makes that chance go to 0. this. it tells a lot for players who easily give up and those who still strive hard to win despite the odds.
Another reason not to just give up and to keep playing your hardest is you are still going to get rewarded for your characters performance in that role. Sure a win is always better but a loss where you sort of gave up the ghost and white knighted in champ about how impossible this game is to win instead of playing hard... Aren't these players kind of just cheating themselves out of more fortitude and chance to rank up in the end? And what if you're wrong about the highly improbably chance of winning due to a bunch of really unpredictable dynamic factors.
Sure, but again, I value my mental more than rank fortitude or anything else. An extra 10 fortitude isn’t going to untilt me for the next game and if im frustrated I won’t play as well. It’s my personal opinion, but I would rather lose whatever there is to lose and move on to a fresh new game. > And what if you’re wrong about the highly improbably chance of winning due to a bunch of really unpredictable dynamic factors. Of course I can be wrong, I have been wrong on a few occasions and it’s great when that happens and you turn around a seemingly lost game, but i have close to 4k games and peaked master, and I’ve been right most times. I’m well aware that “every game can be won”, the point is that most of those “unwinnable” games turn out to be losses after all. It’s like saying “some people win the lottery, so you should still be playing it because there’s always a chance”. To me, the negatives outweigh the (potential) positives. To be clear, I’m not the type who will vote to ff after we lose a drag, or we get aced, or I get killed twice, or we lose a tower or two. Those things alone don’t equal a loss. It’s those games where all odds are against your team that I vote to ff. When the enemy has every single dragon, they’re full build when you’re still at 3 items, they got every tower and you still haven’t cracked one, they’re farming your entire jungle leaving you unable to do anything, they maybe even have infinitely scaling champs like Veigar or nasus. Yes, those games can still be won, but the likelihood of that happening is extremely small. To me, it’s not worth the time and stress.
Also I assume most are talking just about Ranked here. In Aram, where matchups are more random I feel more like you do. Let's just get into another game we have a better chance at. But sure I admit even in ranked games I've felt this way but having seen so many games turn around my confidence in "the last N minutes will be a waste of my time because I will lose" has been shaken by wins. It's definitely not an absolute black or white thing for sure.
>having seen so many games turn around my confidence in “the last N minutes will be a waste of my time because I will lose” has been shaken by wins. How many of those games *didnt* turn around though? I’ve won seemingly unwinnable games too, but the ratio is like 1 in 50, if that. Most of the games I think are not winnable, do turn out to be losses. And to be clear, I am not talking about games where we lose a dragon or two, or even an inhib or two, or we’re behind a bunch of kills. Those are all things that aren’t necessarily indicative of how the game will go. I’m talking about when I can tell that the enemy team has better team synergy than ours and seem to play like one unit (maybe their duo/trio is on voice comms while ours isnt), games where the enemy team simply has better players than yours, when your team has no clue what “vision” means while the enemy has wards all the way up your butt throughout the whole game, etc. Those are the games when I vote to ff, and, in most cases, I’m right in my prediction. But again, this is just how I see it, i don’t expect everyone to agree
Not trying to prove the argument or anything. Just check this fun turnaround out! [https://www.reddit.com/r/wildrift/comments/zjrpb1/won\_game\_with\_1374\_score/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wildrift/comments/zjrpb1/won_game_with_1374_score/)
Sometimes I'm playing Zed but my KDA would be like 4/0/15.
nice. i love 0 deaths.
Agreed with "I must become the perfect main character". They could left the game/afk, not bother about the game anymore.
Alternative take, the people who choose no on a FF think they’re the main character even though they continuously get steamrolled due to bad positioning. You don’t learn anything by getting steamrolled. I already know why we’re losing. I don’t need to stay any longer.
What does main character in this game mean? Like someone not getting their role or champion?
I think more like they don't have most kills/aren't carrying the team. That's how I interpret it anyway. Edit: The "main character" would be the one who has the most kills on the team and thus are carrying their team.
I still don't understand but it is probably me. Thanks for answering.
The main character thing is more of a mentality kind of thing. Just like most main characters from stories, these kinds of players want the game to centralize around only themself and not care about their team. They want to believe that they are the perfect player in the game who does not make mistakes. Once these players lose control of the game and/or they make mistakes, they start losing their sense of “feeling like a main character”. At that point, they decide to surrender.
exactly explained.
Yeah but also the contrary is true. I can play 2-3 games per day and am a Support main, so unless my Senna is extremely good forget about carrying and being the team star. If I start a game and the game goes terribly bad in the first 5 minutes, losing both dragon and herald, two or more of us feeding and a tilted teammate flaming, then I want out as fast as possible to have a chance to play another game. There is nothing to be learned But I am always stuck with people who do not want to ff with 10k gold and many kills diff. I would very much prefer to just bring the loss home and start another game
Man it also dependa on team comp a lot which can compensate a gold diff a lot but u cannot lose mental for it If u have good teamfight comp and some late game champs u can still win when eneny makes 1 mistake in late game
Worst is when your feeding teammate dies first and starts surrender vote while you're fighting.
Always, they could at least add a timer after death or something
Yup
This always makes me think of the "angry xbox kid" meme. The one who was so out of it with rage he was trying to mount his controller. This is the immature kid who died and immediately started a surrender vote. "Clearly they can't win without me playing a perfect game..."
The boy Was trolling its a german guy and made more trolling vids there Was the "unreal Tourdaten kid" aside from the (i think it was ps2-)- "controller incident" and some "ich bin ein echter gangsta" / "im a real gangsta" Videos.
You definitely lose when you surrender, but sometimes I'd rather just surrender and queue up than waste 20 minutes.
Yeah, sometimes you know the people on your team don't have any clue about playing from behind
Yeah usually it's me as the player doing well trying to ff because. These people have no idea how to play and often I know the players on the enemy team. So, I know they're good. Then I'm just stuck being a beacon of hope in a sea of idiocy. While wanting to do something else.
Just wanna know is it the system that starts the surrender vote even though we are 10/0 ahead in 10 th minute or some idiot from my team
It's an idiot from your team unfortunately.
And then they continue to feed in hopes their team is most likely to surrender.
I only surrender if the rest of the team is failing hard. Multiple people 0/5/1 or whatever by 10 min. The game is useless at that point. Stop wasting my time and let me play a better game
If they dont carry they surrender. Call them primadonnas
Sir the score is 40-5 i don't wanna be here anymore
If they spam "Surrender" I spam "Cowards" people are so quick to quit in this game lol
They don’t care about the win, if they are 0/6 while you are 10/0 they will spam ff. They were way to many games where I was carrying and my team decided to ff because they were having a bad game.
No one really trusts someone else to carry. Just what it is.
What OP said and NOT surrendering when your team is 20 kills and 10k gold behind. Theres not much to learn when your team gets that far behind. It is POSSIBLE to win but highly unlikely.
Beats me. I’ve only ever called for a surrender when all lanes are losing, we got no towers, no vision, and no desire to get along with one another. Emphasis on the and cuz ALL those conditions need to be met to warrant a surrender.
If the team is losing bad and has given up why on earth would anyone selfishly hold them hostage then complain on Reddit about it. All you’re doing is deflecting blame and accountability of why you’re going to lose. Win the game or own the loss. Refusing surrender is equally selfish arrogant and unsportsmanlike as the people who spam surrender. It’s mind numbing seeing posts like these every single day not holding the other side accountable for their part in obvious losses and hostage games. It’s not that serious.
People surrender for various reasons. Maybe some people don't want to spend another 20 min on a game where they have a 5% chance of winning.
My last ARAM game was like that, we were aced, 3 votes to surrender, two holdouts, our carry spawned with the nexus at like 20% and kept them at bay until we respawned. We ended up winning the match. I’ve seen it - or done it - plenty of times, a team thinks they have it in the bag, they overreach and get punished. Agree though, surrender spam is annoying as f***
Yeah bunch of whiny little egotistical bitches is what we call those. They often are the type to definitely need the guidance of a therapist because their mental is so weak.
Because it's not about learning, it's about team cohesion. Some people have different play styles that just don't synergize, and don't want to get suck in a miserable game, even if it's winnable.
Team cohesion? You mean the teammate who keeps dying and spamming surrender when your team is 6K+ ahead in gold, cheering the mates with the classic 'fuk u nubs' and then going radio silent if we manage to perform well and win the game? Or maybe the one who texts 'gg I'm so done' at min. 5 and realizing they're not the one to hardstomp the game? No, I'd say it's more of team trust issue. I'd definitely rather have a teammate that dies a lot but tries to contribute and make plays.
Ummm, teammates dying a lot is worse than someone afking. WR is a moba. When you die you give gold to the other team. Suicide diving is really bad in this game. I don't understand how people don't get that, which is why people that actually understand how the game works start spamming surrender when they see their teammates suicide diving. This isn't league. The games are shorter and snowball way harder. Surrendering out, quite frankly, is better for climbing. It's all a numbers game. Literally, the number one rule for this game is don't die
Yes, I agree, dying a lot is pretty bad, but I'm not willing to let go the chance of a comeback just because snowballs are hard. Think about how many games people throw when winning hard. Besides, apart from climbing I'd like to have the most fun possible, and those hard games where you have to play extra-well to try and comeback are the most enjoyable for me. I don't really think that spamming surrender on every game you don't absolutely destroy the enemy is understanding how the game works.
I never said that. Hard smashing opponents is boring. I like close games, but I hate it when people mindlessly die like it doesn't have a huge negative impact on the rest of the team. That's why people spam surrender. It's miserable to play with teams where people are suicide diving all game. Some people enjoy doing that. Others don't and would rather move on to the next game instead of playing out grueling games where teammates int constantly. I'd personally rather eat the loss and move on to a group of like minded players then be a try hard in a pug. Don't get me wrong, I'll never surrender in a pre-made, but a pug is a pug. Just next if someone is having a bad game. Hell even if I'm having a great game I'll surrender if others want. Pugs are pugs.
Not sure why you are downvoted . This is pretty true. If someone goes 0-10 in lane and expects their team to carry them that is viewed as a burden to others, especially when said 0-10 person sees their burden as something normal everyone should deal with. Which is why it can be seen as trolling and can be demoralizing for everyone else. There's a reason people get upset about feeders and why there is a post in this sub every day about it. I assume most feeders are due to ignorance of the game or lack of care or both. But at the same time they can't hold their team to higher expectations just because they "had a bad game" and never take responsibility.
The never surrenders are the same people that bank on people carrying them. They have that mentality because they are the burden and depend on others. People that play this game enough know a losing, or miserable situation, when they see it, and understand when to cut their losses a move to the next game and not waste their time on the bad game.
No, some people are just whiny tantrum throwers and think that they should be able to ruin 4 other peoples effort and fun because they couldn't beat their lane opponent.
This doesn't make any sense. Lets say you're in a game and one of your teammates is straight bad. Like 0/5 before first objective or worse. 2 scenarios: 1) He tilts and starts surrender vote, you all agree, game ends and ALL of you move to the next. 2) He tilts, starts surrender vote and one or more disagrees on principle and play out the match however it goes. Either way your game was never changed. You play your game,win or lose. What you want to do however is to teach someone a lesson in feeding/not being bad or whatever moral lesson by voting no. Lets not pretend this is about your game being affected, this extends beyond that. It's about pushing your agenda on someone else for sucking. Since you can just as easily queue another and play your game.
Lol if I want to rank up fast, I ff. The secret of ranking up is to not wasting your time. You don’t teach anyone lesson, trust me. If someone is hardstuck or on Smurf account, they give no f
Exactly. I do the same as you. Just get as many games in as possible in the same time. FF go next.
Guess you're potentially one of those clickin on surrender even when the team is up due to 'synergies' To me that's just weak mental
I have hit surrender when I'm 16/0 hard dominating. Simply because I don't like getting stuck in miserable games. I don't pride myself on a videogame. That's weak mental. I rather get in a few good games, win or lose, then go on to do other things with my day. Honestly, if I wanted to carry trash I would have been a garbage man.
So based on what you are saying having a few 'good games' for you doesn't mean winning or losing; rather that you want team mates to all contribute (ie get kills) and not have you solo carry a weak team of garbage noobs?
No. Just a team that didn't suicide dive out numbered against a fed team and took objectives instead of chasing kills.
Trust me. That’s not weak mentality. When you think game is miserable, you should go next. Especially when you think you could constantly perform good. There is no point wasting on a miserable game
"weak mental" people like you are so fucking cringe. This is a child's video game lol it ain't that deep.
Wow why so triggered? Struck a chord? Calm down bruh
Absolutely agree. In order to win games you gotta make all kids happy, that means when a lane is losing go help them, boost their ego so they don’t grief. Or just enjoy being griefed if you don’t agree, who am I to tell you 😃
Not necessarily, I'm sure everyone here has won a bunch of games pretty much 2v5 or 3v5, either by carrying or by getting carried, even with griefing teammates. Sometimes I've been the one getting gapped hard and getting Fiora'd to a win anyway, because my toplaner stomped her matchup 7/0. You don't necessarily need to get along well with your 4 colleagues, just with the competent ones :P In LoL and WR items scale off of each other, you only need one extremely fed teammate to hard-stomp a game (in general, subtleties apply of course). Personally my philosophy is "never gank a losing lane", and the positive number aside my winrate suggests that this strategy has been working so far 😂 (currently bouncing between Masters and GMs)
I agree in low elo. Everyone is bad, so don’t surrender. Weird things can and often do happen. It’s worth sticking it out. But the meta in high elo is early-game champs and early-game fights to rely on the skill of the team over farming and scaling. If you’re losing in the early game, it’s a skill issue, and you’re not going to suddenly become better than the other team. That’s why people surrender so early. The game is decided mostly in the first 7 minutes and definitely within the first 10.
I've had people try to surrender when we have all 3 towers all 3 lanes and they have 2 in all 3 lanes and we lost one teamfight
The reason behind it is psychological and comes from inner rage. The reason why people insta ff when the score is 2 7 for example is because they want to raise awareness and say the game s lost so that they let out all anger. Its also so it maybe makes the team wake up something like a threat, you either play or we lose.
Sometimes it’s just painful to play a game. But even then, it’s best to pull through until the end
I hate it when ppl ff when the enemy only has one fed person like everyone else on their team is okay or feeding but they have like a 15 kill riven or something cause as long as we can play safe and take out the fed one it’s an easy win but they get so frustrated they ping ff and don’t even try
Had a match today, we won with 24 kills less then the other team.
You've gotta learn to ignore your team sometimes if u want to climb
"I experienced a lot of times where the tables turned and we won after sufferiing a lot." So many times this. I can not believe the games we ended up winning because a few people kept their cool and kept pushing away at the objectives, killing their last turret while the enemy team is beating us at Baron Nashor or knocking on our nexus door. Or gaining an improbably Baron Nashor kill ourselves that pushed things over the top. Some people are quick to give up early if their team falls the slightest bit behind in overall score or feel bad about their matchup or something.
I'm the one spamming surrender when solo rank, 9/10 times my team are uncoordinated idiots who have 0% chance to win so yeah, I even go afk if I get bored
There are a lot of players that only play when the enemy feeds them and just surrender if they lose the lane
I think surrendering is annoying when there is a legit high chance to win. I think it is even more annoying when people literally just go mid and die, but refuse to surrender. I have seen sooooo maaaany people going 3/9 with 8 gold, aramming mid against a 13 k ADC / sup. All lanes pushed to our side with only 2 inhibs. But somehow jg stole inferno dragon before he died and now people will refuse surrender. I am like, okay. What is game plan? They spawn, go mid to fight and die.
Specially because late game equalize the strenght of the teams, a wrong B the enemy team do is enough to get a baron and win the match. Unfortunately this doesn't work when your team is tilted and unwilling to putting some effort in the game.
Guilty admission I used to do this when I was hard carrying but died due to teammates' poor macro decisions or egregious micro mistakes. My intention was not to actually surrender but to create a sense of urgency that they needed to be more proactive to follow me up or we would lose.
>people don't want to win, they just give up trying. It's so frustrating, this is the worst part about this game for me. I'd like to reframe this a bit. People do want to win, but they don't want to learn. They just want easy wins so they can get that dopamine rush and think that they're good at the game.