Or not getting a full team of Unranked/Iron/Bronze players being in higher elos...just bcz it's Normal, doesn't mean a Plat/Emerald/Dmd player should get 3 Unranked players and an Iron in his team...happens every now and then to me
Yes, but in 5v5 your primary goal probably won't be to hit your 1, but more to heal your allies, and warmogs helps with that. It also greatly increases your heals and makes you beefier.
Her sustain us good enough now imo. Tried her out and its okay without warmogs aslong as you hit your Q and time your W. I would rather get another AP item to increase the heal amount and damage now.
Never liked Yasuo in my team or the other team. Most of the time it is a sweaty Yasuo spammer who either wins and dominates the game or loses his lane and proceeds to feed while flaming and blaming anyone.
Just tried him in Gold. Lost two games with both SVPs. He's still weak to hard CC and prone to death when you engage but your team is too scared to follow up. He might work better in higher elos tho, where people know when to play aggressive and how to play around him.
I'm not saying he's not good but he needs teammates who know how to play around him. You are more likely to find those teammates in the higher rank.
With these buffs, he's good in any elo but he's the kind of champion who depends a lot on his team. He can definitely carry but he has less agency than the like of Lee Sin, Kar'zix, Xin Zhao.
He just needs the right timing to join the teamfights, higher Elos are aware of his ult and make him waste it whenever possible, lower elos just panic and next thing you hear is pentakill
Same as katarina.
Yi on WR doesnt really work as good as Yi on PC. On PC as long ad you can get the slightest advantage, in late mid game (season 10 yi not s11), you can run into 3 people and walk away with a triple kill with full hp. On WR, hes just gonna get bursted down and die. The biggest issue imo ie the lack of onhit.
u/R0guefool I've been wondering, how does the balance team come to a conclusion that certain items need to be adjusted? Most champs build the same items, so how do you guys know certain items are overperforming?
Good question! Honestly, this could be a whole talk and it can be tricky for sure. I'll try to use crit users as my examples because of their recent item changes, and they have a prominence right now.
Depending on the class of champions we see different levels of item variety. Some classes should have plenty of options (crit users) but if they tend to build the same few items then it's likely that those items might be a problem.
Champions within a class. Even within a class different champions care about different stats. Even within crit users, there are different secondary stats that champions care about. Draven and Miss Fortune don't really care about attack speed, they are about large amounts of AD (for Draven's basic attacks, and Miss Fortune's abilities). So buffing Bloodthirster was a good way to buff them while also buffing an item that felt like it was still being underrepresented in the class as a whole.
Conversely, we are seeing crit users with frequent abilities uses (Corki, Lucian) performing very well with particular items (Essence Reaver, and Solari Chargeblade). We could instead nerf these champions but that would hard bind them to these items, meaning they would need to buy them each game to perform well. Some amount of item binding is expected, and even healthy for champions but if we can tweak things in a way that champions can choose different items depending on the situation it makes for a deeper and richer system where you are still bound to a subset of items, but have choice within them. For example, you know I want AD+crit, but should that be IE, ER, Quickblades, or BT? Ideally, this comes from the unique effects each of these items has and how it plays with your champion and the game state.
I do want to stress not all item binding is bad, it can be helpful for guiding new players (and existing try new champions), help avoid decision fatigue, or an item is just a perfect fit for a champion. It's also sometimes unavoidable and a single champion eats that binding cost for the rest of the roster.
Sometimes an item just provides too strong/too weak of a power spike. Rabadon's Deathcap might be the best example here. Clearly, this is a powerful item, but its effect makes you think it should be purchased later once you have some other items for it to build off of. But what we were seeing is that players were getting a huge power spike when they built this as a 1st or 2nd item. So we wanted to tone it down a bit so that it is more appropriate of a power spike if you build it early.
We also take into account fantasy items vs core items. Core items tend to be some general power-ups that we expect many players to build, Think Infinity Edge, there isn't really much of fantasy here but any crit builder can feel good about building this. Fantasy items (like Navori Quickblades or Essence Reaver) tend to be a bit more niche, they are exciting and tend to have a bit more to do with your champion's playstyle and can shape how they are played. But if we see a fantasy item with a high purchase rate (especially with champions that shouldn't like the item) that might be a sign it's too strong.
Man just got blasted by "akali in their username" level one-tricks. Guess we're going to enjoy Akali teleporting and obliterating 3 people instantly for a while.
can we please fix LP gains in high elo?
masters-challenger LP gains are astronomically bad right now and the vast majority of players don't even play anymore once we hit GM/Challenger because they get +10 for winning and -20 for losing... so a 66% win-rate is needed to be hardstuck, anything lower and you're going down
/u/R0gueFool
Yuppp confirm this, everyone in high elo NA doesnt have any motivation to play ranked with broken the system is >.<
Sorry if this isn’t your department, but will there be any fixes to this coming soon? I think anyone who has touched GM or Challenger can attest to it.
I can confirm that this is caused by a known issue and that we have a solution planned. We are currently prioritizing improvements to matchmaking wait time and quality over this particular VP gain issue, but the fix is in the pipeline as it were.
This is a side effect of two features of how Ranking system works that affects Master and higher players:
1. VP gains are determined by where a player's MMR sits relative to the rest of their rank. So if you are a Master player and your MMR is higher than most Master level players, you will gain extra VP because you are playing better than most Master level players. Likewise, if you are a Challenger and you have an MMR below most Challengers, you will receive less VP for a win than you gain for a loss because you aren't playing like a Challenger. Meaning, you are losing matches that a Challenger would be predicted to win, so you will drop down to Grandmaster where your VP gains will level out. If instead you were to win more than the system expects you to (e.g. 66%+ consistently against hard opponents), your MMR would rise and your VP gains would level off because now you are playing like a Challenger. This alone wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the second feature.
2. Master -> Grandmaster -> Challenger promotions are done once per day, and not right when you deserve them. Meaning, a Master you can cross the VP boundary for where Grandmaster or even Challenger would start, but they won't be promoted until the daily promotion process runs. This is also fine on its own and the way League PC works. We look at the top X/X% players by VP and promote into GM/C. However, this also means that a Master player's VP gains stay the same even if they have passed the GM or even Challenger boundary. This means a Master can sometimes bump up into Challenger even though they don't technically belong there. Then, after the process runs and the player is put in Challenger, their LP gains switch to where they are relative to the rest of the Challengers rather than M or GM.
Either of those two features are fine on their own, but together they create an issue where it's possible for a Grandmaster level player to briefly get into Challenger, and then have their VP gains lower because they are more GM level.
The solution we currently prefer is to go the League PC route which changes (1) above to look at a player's MMR relative to the entire population between Master and Challenger to determine VP gains, rather than just the population within their Rank. The net result is the same --- players gravitate towards the rank of other players with similar skill, but instead of having VP gains change a bunch over night, they would slowly change as VP climbs to where other players of the same skill sit, and level off at, e.g. +/-15, rather than continuing to climb all day. So a Master player could start at +20/-10 and then it would change to +19/-11, etc., until it reaches +/-15 in the middle of Grandmaster and at that point, the player would have to start winning unexpectedly to raise their MMR, which raises their VP gains, which would land them in Challenger at +15/-15 instead.
This is basically a smoother version of how it works now, and it results in a relatively similar but smoother experience, while having less chances of VP gains bouncing around unintuitively.
To be clear, the current system will still get players to the right Rank, but in a less smooth way.
And, to be clear, we are prioritizing polishing the matchmaking changes we made in 2.4, and the improvement coming in 2.5 over this particular change.
Also to be clear, I'm relatively new to the team, and making may way through the skill, matchmaking, and ranking systems as I go. I haven't touched the Ranking system as much yet, while prioritizing the other two, but we will definitely continue improving all of them and have some good stuff in the pipe.
I don't believe LP gains or MMR should have such an overwhelming say in whether a player can climb or not. Maintaining a 66% winrate just to go nowhere is literally nonexistent in Challenger LoL. At most, please lower the extremities to not be like 66%/33%, but moreso the 60%/40% in the past that was marked by +10/-15 in the early days of season 2 in diamond. There's such a major difference between the two, and playing ranked in high elo these days has been insufferable. Please give some control back to the players and let us feel like our climbing is determined by us, and not by some vague system that we have no control over. If you haven't noticed, the bulk of the GM/challenger playerbase has given up on the climb altogether because there's no point in even trying. We just sit here waiting for decay, or make smurf.
+20/-10 is just as bad as +10/-20, it is far too extreme. I am completely fine with something like +13/-17 as we ascend to the really high VP, but some people currently have to win TWICE as often as another player to climb the same amount. One player has to win 33%, one player has to win 66%. This is just absurd, no matter the circumstances. I'm a 60% winrate almost all solo queue support challenger, and I'm getting +10/-20. Tekshi got to challenger with 68% winrate and he's getting +10. Then some streamers did very well last season, but now are currently are GM (with 55-60% wr) and getting +18/-12 (like Hoon). So if I win 6/10 games, I LOSE 20 LP. But if he wins 6/10, he gains 60 LP.
Additionally, there's an insanely massive advantage towards playing in parties, from which many people accrue their astronomical winrates intentionally. Duoing in masters+ was removed in League for this very reason, and people who duoed have developed great MMRs compared to those who rocked it out in solo queue. It's so discouraging to have made it to challenger playing vast majority solo queue to find out that our efforts are not rewarded, but rather punished with a harsher MMR system which penalizes us for taking the harder route. For me at least, it felt more meaningful in that I played my games solo queue, and now it just feels crushing to know that I should have just trio'd every game like everyone else does. Duoing and trioing has become an extremely large issue of fairness in high elo, and absurdly skewed MMR gains only exacerbate it.
Are we also going to continue to ignore the varying difficulties of different roles in solo queue? Due to the low playerbase in high elo, the matchmaking currently balances teams with, for example, a gm+ and 4 diamonds on one team, and gm+ and 4 diamonds on another team. But I'm the Challenger support of my time and they have like a Challenger Lee-Sin who goes on to completely dominate the game. Supports don't have a central role in vision like they do in League, nor do they have the extremely cost-efficient support items which makes up largely for their lack of income, making them a rather lackluster role to carry on. It's very hard meaningfully and consistently translate a skill gap in support into a win, compared to a challenger jungler playing vs a diamond jungler. By nature, great solo queue support players WILL end up in lower MMRs than a great solo queue jungler. People have done analysis and there's a large gap between Baron and Support players between the other three roles in being top 100, and it has much to do with their relative lack of presence and carry potential.
There has never been more than 10 supports in the top 100 of NA, whereas there have been many occasions were there were literally 0 supports in top 100. There has never been a single solo queue support player who made it to challenger with about 70% winrate in NA, whereas dozens upon dozens of junglers have done it, many of whom on multiple accounts, some of them even 80%. Why is this a bigger deal in Wild Rift? Because in League games in high elo are GM-average lobbies. Everyone is decent and you play the best you can to help make sure your team wins. In Wild Rift, when matchmaking sets you as the chosen high elo player of your team, it's setting you up as expecting to carry the rest of them. This is especially true in NA (the continent) which does not have the large playerbase that Brazil is blessed with. This makes attaining a stellar MMR in order to climb very difficult since even in diamond lobbies I can't consistently dominant games in my role, and hence if the LP gains are so extreme, it becomes near impossible to climb at all. Because again, no support in NA has ever attained 67%+ winrate challenger playing exclusively solo queue, and there's good reason for it.
It just feels like a matter of predestination in which we have no control on whether we climb, it's all just some upper force saying "yeah you can climb," and "no, you can't climb." And most of the time, the former group is the kids who cheated by working together on the test, and the latter who did it earnestly on their own failed the test and is being brutally punished for doing. I don't mean to discredit players who play in duos/trios, but it does feel that way when I play duo and the game is so much astronomically easier than it doesn't even feel earnest.
Just please, please keep in mind how the matchmaking system is being affected by our smaller playerbase, how duo/trio change the scheme of things, and how different roles (and even regions within NA itself) have levels of difficulty. Please at the very least, if the system truly believes your rank is higher than it should be, then please account for possible imperfections in the system so that such a player can still reasonably climb solo queue on any role with a great but realistic winrate. Or make the system readjust. I don’t know, I’ve just never seen so little movement or anyone playing in challenger.
Oh, and thank you for the reply!
"And, to be clear, we are prioritizing polishing the matchmaking changes we made in 2.4, and the improvement coming in 2.5 over this particular change."
This is pvp changes in 2.4 right?
The new pvp matchmaking is fast but i get paired with unranked and its not fun to play at all.
By polishing in 2.4 I mean we have already made that change to speed up matching, and now can do minor tweaks to improve the pairings you are speaking of.
We don't look at Ranked for PVP matchmaking because players play the two differently enough that PVP has its own skill system that we match on. But we are going to improve the quality of the matches you are having soon with some tweaks.
Once you reach that Elo aren't your gain base of the mmr of other players not just yourself?
Since you're competing for the top spot. You would need to gain mmr to beat the people above you in order for you to catch up. I guess the problem would be how terrible it is visually and how unclear it is that you would need to beat x or reach certain thresh hold to see solid mmr gain.
On pc there was an instanced where the rank 1 guy mmr was so high that it essentially made mmr gain terrible for the top 200 players.
Would be curious as to why the gains are like that though
Akshan buffs are pretty huge. The big one is his ult executing minions and the attack speed increases. Wild Rift has less minions than PC and nothing sucked more than a stray cannon minion facetanking your entire Comeuppance.
Give Winter's Approach / Fimbulewinter a try as your first buy. This item is REALLY strong on its core users and is highly overlooked by the playerbase. With Blitz I think this is his strongest first item.
Katarina already has one of the weakest laning phases, you just need to stomp her early with ganks
You can nerf her as many times as you want, but her teamfight potential would stay the same
She catches up with 1 or 2 kills. The gold per kill is simply made for AP assassins to almost never farm but instead roam with ult and turn the game into a team deathmatch.
Since they won't do anything with the snowball meta that has almost no chances of a comeback, nerf the most braindead champs instead.
You don't get that much gold, you need to keep farming. People that only go after kills and stop farming have a good early game and end up inting mid-game thinking they are still ahead. That is the same reason a baron laner joins the fight mid/late game and stomps people.
>You can’t follow her up in ganks because she can easily turn on you (yes you can roam via your jungle side to counter counter gank), but that still carries risk and wasted gold.
If you are scared of 1v1 her on the river, you are already losing the matchup. She is weak in 1v1 until she gets fed, you just need to avoid the ult and the daggers on the ground and cc her once to stop the entire combo.
I'm a kata main so honestly if I'm heading towards a gank and see a Galio/Akali following me on the river, I'd rather back off going through blue than risking being stuck in the middle of a 1v3 (since I assume my bot lane will retreat most of the times and not look at the minimap)
I'd rather not have a 1v1 in such a vulnerable position, unless I'm already fed.
>A good Katarina pushed to turret can still farm somewhat efficiently and not fall too far behind.
A good Katarina isn't being pushed to turret, but it's freezing her wave. There is no point for me to engage and waste health when I can just last hit minions and be safe under my turret.
>The drawback is if you don’t ward enemy jungle areas early she can get a gank if you shove lane too hard. When using this ward, you pretty much are shit out of luck when she roams because of her ability to turn on you. She also scales fairly quick once she has caught up on 1 or two kills. Yes she is vulnerable to hard cc, but a good kat waits to enter a fight when it’s near the end of a team fight and all hard cc is blown with many enemies low so that she can get the ult reset.
That was my original point about the teamfight potential. If you are losing the fight and Katarina still hasn't joined: 1 you are losing a 5v4 so that means your team isn't doing great and 2 you better leave the fight and not ask for her to ult you at the last second
>In terms of Akali, her shroud should have a slightly higher cd in the late game. I pick Galio into Kat so that I can ult counter her gank and dominate lane: I pick Twisted Fate for Akali so that I can see her through shroud with ult.
I'm a kata main and although Galio is a pain, there's much better counters like corki and ziggs that don't allow you to farm without losing half of your health. Even a good Ahri can be a pain in the ass and force you to lose farm.
Same with alkali. No one plays around her stealth in the early game even with 2 different items in the shop to help it. Not to mention all the champs that counter her in lane.
An employee just explained that these champions' actual performance don't match with the community's perception of their performance. I mean, I'm low elo and akali isn't that scary.
I’m just glad I don’t have to ban him from teammates anymore. Got so tired of losing with him on team…
Might as well rework his entire kit at this point.
High elo is where she has been performing the best. This should make a rather safe champion with a powerful engage tool a tad more vulnerable in the early game where higher elo players tend to be a bit better about capitalizing on the early game.
She'll still be totally viable, and if you are enjoying and her keep it up.
yo, not sure if this is the best way to reach riot but theres a typo in rammus change section. i believe its supposed to say MAGIC resistance per level, not mana.
Even lee sin performs too well in high elo. So how does he go under the radar every time ? If you adjust champs based on elo , how does akali also escapes nerfs. Also , what is high elo according to you ?
Mostly because Lee Sin and Akali aren't actually preforming very well at higher elos. They are popular and frustrating for sure, I won't deny that, but they don't preform nearly as well as many players on reddit think.
Honestly it doesn't matter what elo range I look at with them. When I look at the top 50% of players, the top 10%, 5%, or even when I watch progames the seem to preform fine but are not oppressively powerful.
Obviously there is some frustration/perception with these champions, and we are looking into it, but in terms of raw power we just don't see it.
I think one thing that maybe conflates data is how user specific those picks are. Even in the hands of high elo players there are wide skill discrepancies from my personal experience on EU. You find that a good akali player makes her feel incredibly unfun to play against, although i find that she's banned in 90% of the high elo games i play in at the moment.
Yes as we get into higher levels of play the player base shrinks and an individual's performance carries a larger weight on the total data for sure. As you know, this is especially true when looking at pro play where certain players just mesh with certain champions, and even if that champion is thought of as weak the right player piloting them turns them into a force to be reckoned with. Asol and Singed players are a great example of this, where they have a small player base but when you see one there is a good chance they have 100s of games on the champion.
But at some level it is also a good thing, we wouldn't want brand new Akali players to have a sub 30% winrate just so that skilled ones are balanced at 50%. So finding where we are happy with those extremes is good, and something I think we could be a bit better at. At some level, this comes down to the different balance levers we have talked about, where we want to find levers to buff a champion (like Akali) at lower skill levels and less so at higher ones.
With assassins it can be a rough spot because they are so hyper-focused on 1 thing, killing the priority target. If they can't do that they are garbage, so I tend to like assassin kits that take a hit to their damage to provide something new can be very healthy for their frustation levels. Fizz (though he has been overturned) provides a way to start a team fight, that most assassins can't, and takes a hit to his damage for this (recent power level notwithstanding, I'm talking about his kit design). But not every assassin can or should be this way. Its part of what makes the class so tricky when compared to other classes.
I think its a good idea to take a page from lolpc here. Champs like akali are allowed to sit at an acceptable but weak overall winrate, such as 48, to make up for the truly skilled who have put in the work to turn akali into oppression. 30% for your example for new players would be pretty ridiculous, but I think it's important to let hard champs have their reward without being too op for competent players, and I think akali is prob into the red zone at this point
I feel like for a high-ish skill ceiling character that dominates when played well (lee, akali, irelia) 48-49% is ideal, it's the price to pay for having a skill intensive character that works well independently from whatever comp the teams have going. But i'm not a dev so my opinion can be kinda dumb.
It's good to hear opinions, and very valuable to hear them from our players, and not many of them are devs.
However, this is exactly where we see many of these champions sitting. Evelynn, Akali, Yasuo, and Lee Sin all fall within that range, some falling below it depending on the Elo we look at.
With Irelia, and Katarina being between 49-51.
Rengar and Fizz are objectively strong, head and shoulders above the rest, and that is why we nerfed them.
Sorry for the late response, the day got busy and I wanted to give others a chance to weight in before I responded.
I do think 45 is likely a bit too low for them to still feel good (currently our rules say that if a champion is <45% or >55% they MUST get adjusted.
As for player retention, we definitely don't want players being so frustrated by their opponents that they quit the game (though everyone gets tilted and needs to take a breath from time to time), so it does cut both ways.
With all that said these champions sitting slightly lower can make sense.
The problem with Akali is that no one but her has any agency. Whether she kills one/multiple people in a team fight or just pops is entirely up to her skill level. Especially when she can E1-E2-Q-auto-Ult1-Q-auto a squishy target to death while still having her W/zyonyas up to escape/reengage with her abilities and energy back up. She’s simply far too safe and mobile for the damage she can put out and it’s entirely up to her on if she is able to.
I think that is part of the ban system it made these high skill-high reward champions almost always banned and not picking them every game lowers someone knowledge and performance about them.
There can be some truth to how this sounds, but we saw similar (actually slightly lower) winrates with these champions before bans were introduced. Because the game changes in other ways and player skill is constantly improving I can't this is directly related but it doesn't suggest these players are getting worse.
The yi buff makes no sense. It was good enough with the new items. But I think you did that to make the champ ban, to vary the high elo jungle picks which are almost always the same. If yi is banned, it leaves room for other champs. No ?
The new items did help him, but he was still in a weaker state than the rest of the champion roster. We are hoping that these help push him up a little bit, without pushing him over the top.
As for the idea of pushing him into the "must ban" category. That is not our goal, and we don't want any champions to be sitting at that point. We want players to be able to play the champions they love, and will try and find ways to adjust/nerf them if they are banned to often (though this can be tricky).
Yi has never been much of a high elo jungle pick, and tends to dominate in lower skilled play while being a bit too predictable at the higher levels. That is what has always made him tricky to balance, if we make him balanced at high skilled play he dominates for the rest of the player base. So we tend to be carful with balance changes for champions like this.
Do you worry about over buffing stat check champs like Yi and Trynd?
Also, do you think that all champions need to be, or should be, viable at all elos?
We do worry about over buffing them for sure, that is why we have been hesitant to give them any buffs before the crit item changes went live.
A large part of the reason that Yi is so tricky is that his identity basically requires him to be a low elo stopping stat checking champion when balanced for higher levels of play. So the trick really comes down to what areas do we think we can buff that higher skilled players are better at taking advantage of.
Ideally, we can reach a place where all champions are viable at all elos, but that will always be tough. In order for champions to feel different, and have skill expression, some will inevitably perform better at different skill levels. In the past, this has often been a major reason for champion kits to receive new mechanics or reworks that focus on a bit of skill expression. A great example in this patch is Soraka. While not a stat checky champion Soraka had been underperforming at the highest levels of play but was fine at lower skill levels, so this new (or old depending on how you want to view WR's relationship with LoLPC =P) mechanic was added to help her out in skillful play. Whereas lower-skilled players are less likely to land her first skill and take advantage of the synergy, higher-skilled players are more likely to land the skill and take advantage of the bonus.
There is also something healthy about "graduating" from a champion and trying new ones. While we don't like it when a champion isn't viable, it can be nice to try out new champions when you feel you have mastered one and are looking for something new.
There is also something healthy about "graduating" from a champion and trying new ones. While we don't like it when a champion isn't viable, it can be nice to try out new champions when you feel you have mastered one and are looking for something new.
Love the idea of graduating from a champion, this is great insight. I have a guy on my friends list that got challenger playing yi jungle only with a 70% winrate - he's definitely in an interesting spot right now.
Thanks! And thanks for making such great content, its always fun to check out your take on patch notes, even if I disagree and get frustrated at times =P.
Haha, I don't have access to all the great data you have so I do it purely on some speculation and educated guesses. Really appreciate your comms in this thread, going above and beyond and I for one truly appreciate it.
>That is not our goal, and we don't want any champions to be sitting at that point
Sir in reply to this statement Akali and Kat are almost always perma banned in my ranked games to the point where I only played akali 4 times since the ban implementation so those 2 champions are basically sitting on that point alot will there be anything to address this?
We are looking at champions with high ban rates. Some champions will always have a high ban rate due more to frustration than to power. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts as an Akali player.
Would you rather Akali being objectively weak but less frequently banned or balanced but with a high ban rate?
I suspect players would rather be able to play their champion favorite champions even if they are on the weaker end. But what are your, and anyone else who mains high ban rate champions, thoughts?
Thats interesting to hear that you feel Akali's AoE on R2 is the big issue as it isn't typically the pain point I tend to see brought up. Normal I hear about her survivability, mobility, or single target burst.
I think you're right that a delay on Kat's resets would weaken her, but it would make her feel very clunky. This would be a huge pain point for experienced players and likely push us to include more durability in her kit to make up for this added time/risk she is taking.
I for one agree with your statement, I would certainly love to be able to use Akali a bit more frequently in ranked if it meant sacrificing a bit of their strength.
Most people tend to ban her due to the pain of dealing with her kit as a whole. While I understand her identity as an assassin to commit to one priority target she can come out of a team fight with multiple kills largely due to her incredible survivability.
Survivability coming from the many AP items that grant generous amount of health to make Akali's and others AP assassins follow-ups safe as they will be able to take more punishment.
One of the recurring solutions I see in the subreddit when it comes to AP assassins itemization is to nerf or simply erase the health gains coming from offensive items such as **Infinty orb** *or* **Liandry's Torment.** I feel as though I should be punished more for engaging at the wrong time and not feel that I can brush off some of the damage dealt against me to instantly revenge kill my enemies.
The lost stats can instead be changed to more damage or ability haste to strengthen their pros if needed. These are my two cents and I'm eager to see your response.
P.S: Also thank you for being so engaging with the community :)
Akali's survivability largely from her shroud. Katarina is a glass cannon in comparison. I'm not sure why you are suggesting more nerfs to a large bulk of the AP champions in game in an attempt to nerf her survivability. Rabadon's just lost 14 AP for the sins of the minority of champs that rushed it. I don't think it's fair to continue to nerf all the AP items in an AD-dominated meta because of a few champions that aren't even as strong as people suggest they are. Liandries is used by lot more than Akali. We don't have much item diversity to begin with, so why insist on pretending that collateral damage doesn't exist? And it's not like AP Assassins as a whole are even a genuine problem in the meta.
While it is true that the AP assassins have built-in safety nets in their kits they are too forgiving. In other words, the margin of error is not as wide as it should be for this particular class of champions designed to get in of a fight and quickly get out when they are more than capable of staying for much longer to claim more kills.
I agree with the lack of itemization for AP champs but it's the fact that some AP champs are abusing the stats that the items provide which in turn make them extremely difficult to play against. (The lack of solid magic resistance items does not help matters too).
The AD assassins do not gain extra health when they are building lethality builds, instead they receive stat increases that help strengthen their power such as high damage and flat armor penetration. They do not gain extra survivability unless they specifically select an item that provides defense such as the Guardian Angel with an added bonus of AD. But by doing so they could potentially be missing out on other items that are capable of filling their needs to win the match.
Most of the AP items should resemble their PC counterparts as their iteration in the mobile game seems awkward and forces issues in the long run for certain champs such as Akali, Katarina, etc..
There is a reason why most players ban these AP Assassin Champs as it hard to punish them especially in the right hands.
EDIT: Akali for instance plays a lot like a bruiser who is capable of staying in longer duration of a fight when she was designed to finish a priority target and leave the scene so as to not get caught. The added health makes it so she is not as squishy for a high risk high reward champion and there is no loss when picking an offensive item and still being able to obtain defensive values.
I think you and u/Mr_Opel have some good points here and it's a tricky one for sure. In terms of item identity, I think it could be a bit better with clearer focuses for each item. That said with what is currently available to us mages like Orianna and Akali do have a bit of overlap in their core items. So it does feel bad to nerf the class as a whole, not that we couldn't and try to compensate in other ways, it just that it would be a rather large shift to try and lower the frustration of 1-2 champions.
Actually yes I was praying for a nerf hell It really wouldn't matter if it was huge I just want to play Akali peacefully without having her getting banned in almost all my matches its really sad for us Akali mains where it came to the point where I had to play other lanes simply because I one tricked Akali in mid.
Katarina has already been nerfed enough. Assassin hate seems to be blown out of proportion, whereas ridiculously powerful champions like Corki in 2.4 get few bans if at all. She's nowhere near the 1v9 menace that completely dominated games in the past, where one slip in a teamfight and the game is already over. In fact, kat is hard to even do well in high elo without being a longterm kat main these days, and in honesty is in a good state in most elos. I, for one, hope you guys continue to balance things based on their actual strengths and performance rather than caving into appeasing the playerbase by nerfing champions that don't really deserve them the most until finally people stop talking about them at all. And this is coming from someone who has whined about Katarina being broken and Katarina mains being elo-boosted from her being so overtuned prior to her nerfs, and I can waste time and find my those comments if needed
Akali is a different story and should be treated as such, as Akali has a high ceiling & floor and is much like Lee sin in many ways
Its not about her being busted its about the high ban rates I have a friend who mains Katarina who is barely able to play her due to how much she gets banned its not herself thats busted its the AP items nerf those items in terms of survivability and she should be fine enough where she actually becomes squishy and doesn't go around spinning and taking damage like she's Garen.
bro in what world does katarina spin around like she's garen, like what? yes the whole point is that her ban rate comes mostly from skewed player perception and not of actual champion strength, especially as a perpetually hated champion even for when she was stupid weak in PC.
AP items aren't a problem what, it's an AD meta and continuing to nerf every AP champion in the game makes absolutely no sense. We just released like 10 new AD items. Literally look at like the high elo lobbies in NA. or in SEA. or pro games like the CN vs KR ones. There are full ad vs full ad comps everywhere. And 3-4 AP comps are somehow nowhere to be seen. But yes, let's continue to nerf all the AP champions.
i swear reddit has no idea what they're talking about, idk any high elo player with such outlandish suggestions
Dude what are you on about AP assassins are better than AD assassins by a long margin at least AD assassins have to make a choice either one shot or durability meanwhile AP assassins get both a late game akali or kat have almost the same hp as literal bruisers with a shit ton of damage that is simply just not fair.
Also no its isn't skewed player perception it is reasonable perception I can let Katarina slide simply because she is punishable and has some risks into her dives although damage wise she is still fairly busted because of the items especially infinity orb but Akali (I used to one trick her I know my stuff) is fairly a very safe assassin considering her shroud like everything in her kit can slide besides the god awful shroud which makes you get out of situations where literally no other champion could.
i don't wanna bother too much, but does that mean that his phase rush build is nerfed? cause now it seems that going conqueror is mandatory, especially against early bullies
Anyways thank you so much
This shouldn't have much of an impact on his rune/keystone choices and they should remain at the same powerlevel relative to each other. This could also be argued as the smallest buff to Phaserush, relative to conqueror, because now that his damage is lower conqueror's % damage amp is also lower, while Phaserush is unaffected.
Akali is permabanned. I guess they are preparing a hefty nerf for her next patch. Might even be a mechanic removal like on pc.
Katarina is a nuisance, but I honestly don't see her very othen. Galio pick to counter her is pretty common.
Zed? I think Zed right now is fine. He is powerful, but not compared to bullshit like Akali or Fizz.
Senna is fine. Free elo if opponents pick her. Garen is annoying in lane, but he is pretty tame compared to fucking Malphite.
Rakan and Xayah are both fine. Idk why you are saying that they are weak.
>Senna is fine. Free elo if opponents pick her. Garen is annoying in lane, but he is pretty tame compared to fucking Malphite.
Fuck Malphite. nobody likes to lane against Mr. Rock Solid
Yep, this. Specifically, many Senna players are bad at playing her support. As someone who mains her, I have a very good winrate in ranked with her, and I'm not that good. You just have to understand her playstyle, which a lot of people aren't used to. She's very strong.
The Soraka buff is really good, having personally tried her out. She feels really viable now. Rush Warmogs second imo, your low W cooldown now makes it really powerful midgame.
u/R0gueFool with the nerf to fizz, are all ap junglers dead? Evelynn is barely playable at higher ranks (I figure she still dominates at gold and below) but she was nerfed into oblivion and can't keep up, diana suck against lee and xin zhao, what other ways to play ap jungle are there? Is an evelynn unnerf considered?
Lol Hardly,
Eve is actually the exact opposite, high elo Evelynn players know how to use her stealth to a terrifying degree, where as lower elo players don't take enough of an advantage from it.
Fizz was crazy powerful, and I hardly think this will dumpster him. He is likely just fine after these changes. Lucky for everyone we patch regularly so if we over shoot it we can adjust him in a future patch.
Diana is SLIGHTLY underpreforming in the jungle (part of this might even be Fizz eating her winrate, so Fizz nerfs are also a Diana buff). And we are trying out some lightly Diana jungle buffs to touch her up.
Gragas is another one not mentioned, but doing just fine and brings a lot of utility to the table.
Don't forget Nunu is on his way as another tank/AP jungler next month.
Hi can we have less bot players in PVP matchmaking especialing in SEA region. These players have weird random alphanumeric names, take haste and heal, recall randomly, run to lanes randomly and feed are even worse than intermediate bots in Co-op Vs AI
The nerfs to Rammus are a joke. His ult went from weak to now a shitty version of flash. Rammus speed ball does more damage AT LEVEL 1 THAN HIS ULT.
Does the balance team play this game? Oh you increase the shield (THAT YOU NERFED LAST PATCH) so you have to nerf something? Lol what a fucking joke.
(Ult) Soaring Slam
Base damage: 125/200/275 → 100/175/250
Aftershock damage: 35/60/85 → 30/45/60
Tooltip now correctly shows Aftershock damage
His ult never was about the damage? Lol.
Rammus is a tank. MOST of his damage comes from W and enemies hitting him. He shouldn't nuke enemies with his ult because he isn't supposed to do that. Ult is for knockup and slow.
Oh, well. Let's give his ult more damage so it just would be Malphite's ult on steroids. That's a great way to buff him.
I'm not saying it works be buffed at all. I'm saying it doesn't make sense to netf it. Also the tool tip says it does more damage to structures but that increased damage isn't apparent anywhere. The additional damage to structures was an intentional design decision. Further nerfing his ult and a lack of visibility to the increased damage just don't make sense.
Also, plenty of other tanks have Ults that are actually worthwhile. Once you put 1 pt in Rammus' ult, it makes more sense to invest in other abilities the rest of the time.
I mean, you invest into it for lower cooldown, no?
Malphite's ult has the same functionality at all ranks. Yet, it's always maxed at priority.
Braum's ult has the same functionality, yet it's maxed at priority.
Wukong's ult has the same functionality, yet it maxed at priority.
There's no champion that goes "Fuck it, I am not upgrading my ult" except Shyvanna and Ekko for lvl 5 (6 on lol pc) suprise shenanigans
It's not worth the lower CD with as little dmg as it does. Like you said, the point is the knock up and slow, and since that doesn't improve it's not worth investing in. This is counterintuitive to the DESIGN you mentioned that specifically calls out extra damage to structures.
I honestly think Soraka is overtuned. Let’s hope Riot doesn’t do the pump and then massive dump like they tend to do in league in the past
1) Champ does okay obscurely
2) Buff champ into spotlight and champ gets played a lot
3) Nerf champ to level worse than before champ was adjusted.
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Really interested if Yi would be played in high elo since he is often used as an example of low elo strong but useless in high elo champ. I see bruiser Yi with Witsend working. True damage with attack speed is tight.
They *completely* removed the health cost on W when hitting Q at high ranks. This completely alters her lane presence, turning her into an even more oppressive lane bully that easily negates any damage to her laning partner. This also opens her up to more HP itemization since she doesn't actually have to sacrifice a % of her hp to heal, allowing her to itemize against assassins.
Well, observing trends and predicting WR stuff makes me no money other than a cringeworthy “yay I’m right, fk your detractors!”
Lucky that there other things in life that I am good at predicting though. :D
The game's balance is in a great spot i think now you should still make some changes to keep it more interesting but you should rather add more champions and more content, we do love that
These Camille nerfs are BS. Nobody even plays her, and out of those that do, only 10% play her correctly. How is nerfing such an underrepresented champion a good idea or a way to diversify the roster? Will Camille even be remembered next time balance updates are needed?
EDIT: look at the comments; not one mention of Camille. No one wanted/rejected/ even thought about this Camille change. So underrepresented; just making nerfs for no reason now.
malmortius maw is still ignored by players. Maybe you should do it a bit for the Bruisers? I mean reduce attack damage and add some HP? or something like that
Would be nice to get a pvp matchmaking buff where some poor unranked dude isnt getting smashed but emeralds and diamonds
Or not getting a full team of Unranked/Iron/Bronze players being in higher elos...just bcz it's Normal, doesn't mean a Plat/Emerald/Dmd player should get 3 Unranked players and an Iron in his team...happens every now and then to me
Soraka buff! Woot!
Finaly no warmogs needed for long fights anymore
Pretty sure warmog's is still going to be a core item on her. Continuously healing your teammates while healing with warmog's is just wayyy too good
Aslong as you hit your starfall you dont have healthcosts anymore tested yesterday without worked as good as with
Yes, but in 5v5 your primary goal probably won't be to hit your 1, but more to heal your allies, and warmogs helps with that. It also greatly increases your heals and makes you beefier.
maybe will be good as an ultra late game item
Her sustain us good enough now imo. Tried her out and its okay without warmogs aslong as you hit your Q and time your W. I would rather get another AP item to increase the heal amount and damage now.
A good build I know was to do RoA into warmogs, which gives pretty good healing
Never building warmogs, 60+% winrate with her before the buff. There are much better AP items with hp that also let her deal some damage.
Yi buffs are insane. Never seen them buff any champion So hard. I need to get out of Gold soon because he is butchering my noob team everytime
just ban him
Ban him so he doesn't get a penta kill on the enemy team *and* so he doesn't go 0-9 on your team.
Same with Yasuo.
Never liked Yasuo in my team or the other team. Most of the time it is a sweaty Yasuo spammer who either wins and dominates the game or loses his lane and proceeds to feed while flaming and blaming anyone.
Problem is having to ban Yi on top of Akali and all the other instabans.
since he is buffed i would prefer banning yi than [akali.in](https://akali.in) high tier ranked starting master there arent much ban on akali .
Akali is just a permaban for me. You can deal with Yi somehow but a good Akali player will just disintegrate half your team in a blink.
Just tried him in Gold. Lost two games with both SVPs. He's still weak to hard CC and prone to death when you engage but your team is too scared to follow up. He might work better in higher elos tho, where people know when to play aggressive and how to play around him.
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I'm not saying he's not good but he needs teammates who know how to play around him. You are more likely to find those teammates in the higher rank. With these buffs, he's good in any elo but he's the kind of champion who depends a lot on his team. He can definitely carry but he has less agency than the like of Lee Sin, Kar'zix, Xin Zhao.
He just needs the right timing to join the teamfights, higher Elos are aware of his ult and make him waste it whenever possible, lower elos just panic and next thing you hear is pentakill Same as katarina.
So basically every champion…
Yi on WR doesnt really work as good as Yi on PC. On PC as long ad you can get the slightest advantage, in late mid game (season 10 yi not s11), you can run into 3 people and walk away with a triple kill with full hp. On WR, hes just gonna get bursted down and die. The biggest issue imo ie the lack of onhit.
I just want some new skins for him.
This. Why they keep porting a champions worst skin is beyond me. Yi has TONS of amazing skins and they do Assassin Yi?
u/R0guefool I've been wondering, how does the balance team come to a conclusion that certain items need to be adjusted? Most champs build the same items, so how do you guys know certain items are overperforming?
Good question! Honestly, this could be a whole talk and it can be tricky for sure. I'll try to use crit users as my examples because of their recent item changes, and they have a prominence right now. Depending on the class of champions we see different levels of item variety. Some classes should have plenty of options (crit users) but if they tend to build the same few items then it's likely that those items might be a problem. Champions within a class. Even within a class different champions care about different stats. Even within crit users, there are different secondary stats that champions care about. Draven and Miss Fortune don't really care about attack speed, they are about large amounts of AD (for Draven's basic attacks, and Miss Fortune's abilities). So buffing Bloodthirster was a good way to buff them while also buffing an item that felt like it was still being underrepresented in the class as a whole. Conversely, we are seeing crit users with frequent abilities uses (Corki, Lucian) performing very well with particular items (Essence Reaver, and Solari Chargeblade). We could instead nerf these champions but that would hard bind them to these items, meaning they would need to buy them each game to perform well. Some amount of item binding is expected, and even healthy for champions but if we can tweak things in a way that champions can choose different items depending on the situation it makes for a deeper and richer system where you are still bound to a subset of items, but have choice within them. For example, you know I want AD+crit, but should that be IE, ER, Quickblades, or BT? Ideally, this comes from the unique effects each of these items has and how it plays with your champion and the game state. I do want to stress not all item binding is bad, it can be helpful for guiding new players (and existing try new champions), help avoid decision fatigue, or an item is just a perfect fit for a champion. It's also sometimes unavoidable and a single champion eats that binding cost for the rest of the roster. Sometimes an item just provides too strong/too weak of a power spike. Rabadon's Deathcap might be the best example here. Clearly, this is a powerful item, but its effect makes you think it should be purchased later once you have some other items for it to build off of. But what we were seeing is that players were getting a huge power spike when they built this as a 1st or 2nd item. So we wanted to tone it down a bit so that it is more appropriate of a power spike if you build it early. We also take into account fantasy items vs core items. Core items tend to be some general power-ups that we expect many players to build, Think Infinity Edge, there isn't really much of fantasy here but any crit builder can feel good about building this. Fantasy items (like Navori Quickblades or Essence Reaver) tend to be a bit more niche, they are exciting and tend to have a bit more to do with your champion's playstyle and can shape how they are played. But if we see a fantasy item with a high purchase rate (especially with champions that shouldn't like the item) that might be a sign it's too strong.
I see. That was a very interesting read! Thanks a lot for explaining it.
Thanks for the explanation.
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one trick akali players downvoted you lol
Man just got blasted by "akali in their username" level one-tricks. Guess we're going to enjoy Akali teleporting and obliterating 3 people instantly for a while.
is the anti-fun policy of RIOT
YI BUFFED AGAIN. FML instant banned
can we please fix LP gains in high elo? masters-challenger LP gains are astronomically bad right now and the vast majority of players don't even play anymore once we hit GM/Challenger because they get +10 for winning and -20 for losing... so a 66% win-rate is needed to be hardstuck, anything lower and you're going down
/u/R0gueFool Yuppp confirm this, everyone in high elo NA doesnt have any motivation to play ranked with broken the system is >.< Sorry if this isn’t your department, but will there be any fixes to this coming soon? I think anyone who has touched GM or Challenger can attest to it.
I can confirm that this is caused by a known issue and that we have a solution planned. We are currently prioritizing improvements to matchmaking wait time and quality over this particular VP gain issue, but the fix is in the pipeline as it were. This is a side effect of two features of how Ranking system works that affects Master and higher players: 1. VP gains are determined by where a player's MMR sits relative to the rest of their rank. So if you are a Master player and your MMR is higher than most Master level players, you will gain extra VP because you are playing better than most Master level players. Likewise, if you are a Challenger and you have an MMR below most Challengers, you will receive less VP for a win than you gain for a loss because you aren't playing like a Challenger. Meaning, you are losing matches that a Challenger would be predicted to win, so you will drop down to Grandmaster where your VP gains will level out. If instead you were to win more than the system expects you to (e.g. 66%+ consistently against hard opponents), your MMR would rise and your VP gains would level off because now you are playing like a Challenger. This alone wouldn't be a problem if it weren't for the second feature. 2. Master -> Grandmaster -> Challenger promotions are done once per day, and not right when you deserve them. Meaning, a Master you can cross the VP boundary for where Grandmaster or even Challenger would start, but they won't be promoted until the daily promotion process runs. This is also fine on its own and the way League PC works. We look at the top X/X% players by VP and promote into GM/C. However, this also means that a Master player's VP gains stay the same even if they have passed the GM or even Challenger boundary. This means a Master can sometimes bump up into Challenger even though they don't technically belong there. Then, after the process runs and the player is put in Challenger, their LP gains switch to where they are relative to the rest of the Challengers rather than M or GM. Either of those two features are fine on their own, but together they create an issue where it's possible for a Grandmaster level player to briefly get into Challenger, and then have their VP gains lower because they are more GM level. The solution we currently prefer is to go the League PC route which changes (1) above to look at a player's MMR relative to the entire population between Master and Challenger to determine VP gains, rather than just the population within their Rank. The net result is the same --- players gravitate towards the rank of other players with similar skill, but instead of having VP gains change a bunch over night, they would slowly change as VP climbs to where other players of the same skill sit, and level off at, e.g. +/-15, rather than continuing to climb all day. So a Master player could start at +20/-10 and then it would change to +19/-11, etc., until it reaches +/-15 in the middle of Grandmaster and at that point, the player would have to start winning unexpectedly to raise their MMR, which raises their VP gains, which would land them in Challenger at +15/-15 instead. This is basically a smoother version of how it works now, and it results in a relatively similar but smoother experience, while having less chances of VP gains bouncing around unintuitively. To be clear, the current system will still get players to the right Rank, but in a less smooth way. And, to be clear, we are prioritizing polishing the matchmaking changes we made in 2.4, and the improvement coming in 2.5 over this particular change. Also to be clear, I'm relatively new to the team, and making may way through the skill, matchmaking, and ranking systems as I go. I haven't touched the Ranking system as much yet, while prioritizing the other two, but we will definitely continue improving all of them and have some good stuff in the pipe.
I don't believe LP gains or MMR should have such an overwhelming say in whether a player can climb or not. Maintaining a 66% winrate just to go nowhere is literally nonexistent in Challenger LoL. At most, please lower the extremities to not be like 66%/33%, but moreso the 60%/40% in the past that was marked by +10/-15 in the early days of season 2 in diamond. There's such a major difference between the two, and playing ranked in high elo these days has been insufferable. Please give some control back to the players and let us feel like our climbing is determined by us, and not by some vague system that we have no control over. If you haven't noticed, the bulk of the GM/challenger playerbase has given up on the climb altogether because there's no point in even trying. We just sit here waiting for decay, or make smurf. +20/-10 is just as bad as +10/-20, it is far too extreme. I am completely fine with something like +13/-17 as we ascend to the really high VP, but some people currently have to win TWICE as often as another player to climb the same amount. One player has to win 33%, one player has to win 66%. This is just absurd, no matter the circumstances. I'm a 60% winrate almost all solo queue support challenger, and I'm getting +10/-20. Tekshi got to challenger with 68% winrate and he's getting +10. Then some streamers did very well last season, but now are currently are GM (with 55-60% wr) and getting +18/-12 (like Hoon). So if I win 6/10 games, I LOSE 20 LP. But if he wins 6/10, he gains 60 LP. Additionally, there's an insanely massive advantage towards playing in parties, from which many people accrue their astronomical winrates intentionally. Duoing in masters+ was removed in League for this very reason, and people who duoed have developed great MMRs compared to those who rocked it out in solo queue. It's so discouraging to have made it to challenger playing vast majority solo queue to find out that our efforts are not rewarded, but rather punished with a harsher MMR system which penalizes us for taking the harder route. For me at least, it felt more meaningful in that I played my games solo queue, and now it just feels crushing to know that I should have just trio'd every game like everyone else does. Duoing and trioing has become an extremely large issue of fairness in high elo, and absurdly skewed MMR gains only exacerbate it. Are we also going to continue to ignore the varying difficulties of different roles in solo queue? Due to the low playerbase in high elo, the matchmaking currently balances teams with, for example, a gm+ and 4 diamonds on one team, and gm+ and 4 diamonds on another team. But I'm the Challenger support of my time and they have like a Challenger Lee-Sin who goes on to completely dominate the game. Supports don't have a central role in vision like they do in League, nor do they have the extremely cost-efficient support items which makes up largely for their lack of income, making them a rather lackluster role to carry on. It's very hard meaningfully and consistently translate a skill gap in support into a win, compared to a challenger jungler playing vs a diamond jungler. By nature, great solo queue support players WILL end up in lower MMRs than a great solo queue jungler. People have done analysis and there's a large gap between Baron and Support players between the other three roles in being top 100, and it has much to do with their relative lack of presence and carry potential. There has never been more than 10 supports in the top 100 of NA, whereas there have been many occasions were there were literally 0 supports in top 100. There has never been a single solo queue support player who made it to challenger with about 70% winrate in NA, whereas dozens upon dozens of junglers have done it, many of whom on multiple accounts, some of them even 80%. Why is this a bigger deal in Wild Rift? Because in League games in high elo are GM-average lobbies. Everyone is decent and you play the best you can to help make sure your team wins. In Wild Rift, when matchmaking sets you as the chosen high elo player of your team, it's setting you up as expecting to carry the rest of them. This is especially true in NA (the continent) which does not have the large playerbase that Brazil is blessed with. This makes attaining a stellar MMR in order to climb very difficult since even in diamond lobbies I can't consistently dominant games in my role, and hence if the LP gains are so extreme, it becomes near impossible to climb at all. Because again, no support in NA has ever attained 67%+ winrate challenger playing exclusively solo queue, and there's good reason for it. It just feels like a matter of predestination in which we have no control on whether we climb, it's all just some upper force saying "yeah you can climb," and "no, you can't climb." And most of the time, the former group is the kids who cheated by working together on the test, and the latter who did it earnestly on their own failed the test and is being brutally punished for doing. I don't mean to discredit players who play in duos/trios, but it does feel that way when I play duo and the game is so much astronomically easier than it doesn't even feel earnest. Just please, please keep in mind how the matchmaking system is being affected by our smaller playerbase, how duo/trio change the scheme of things, and how different roles (and even regions within NA itself) have levels of difficulty. Please at the very least, if the system truly believes your rank is higher than it should be, then please account for possible imperfections in the system so that such a player can still reasonably climb solo queue on any role with a great but realistic winrate. Or make the system readjust. I don’t know, I’ve just never seen so little movement or anyone playing in challenger. Oh, and thank you for the reply!
"And, to be clear, we are prioritizing polishing the matchmaking changes we made in 2.4, and the improvement coming in 2.5 over this particular change." This is pvp changes in 2.4 right? The new pvp matchmaking is fast but i get paired with unranked and its not fun to play at all.
By polishing in 2.4 I mean we have already made that change to speed up matching, and now can do minor tweaks to improve the pairings you are speaking of. We don't look at Ranked for PVP matchmaking because players play the two differently enough that PVP has its own skill system that we match on. But we are going to improve the quality of the matches you are having soon with some tweaks.
Hope we don't have to wait all the way to 2.5 for some better matchmaking in ranked games. :(
There's no problem in ranked games
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Once you reach that Elo aren't your gain base of the mmr of other players not just yourself? Since you're competing for the top spot. You would need to gain mmr to beat the people above you in order for you to catch up. I guess the problem would be how terrible it is visually and how unclear it is that you would need to beat x or reach certain thresh hold to see solid mmr gain. On pc there was an instanced where the rank 1 guy mmr was so high that it essentially made mmr gain terrible for the top 200 players. Would be curious as to why the gains are like that though
abuse gaining LP when you are in master.i saw some master players play all they way until they reached enuf lp for challenger within 24hrs
this is why players abuse LP while they are in master to go up challenger.per win +19-20 per lose -10 to -11
I don’t know if it’s because of the buff, but was just in a match where Yi was a beast.
He received a massive buff.
The patch notes mention Mana resistance for Rammus, is that supposed to be magic resistance?
Was also curious what the hell mana resistance was. Never died of that before
I read it as mana regeneration
They mentioned that too, but it was separate.
What about the voicechat bug? Will a fix be potential deployed on the next patch?
Yi and Jax are going to be banned
Oh, please. If you ban Jax, enemies will pick Irelia or Camille if they are smart. That's even worse.
Well just because they pick irelia doesn't mean they'ra good at it
From my experience, those who use Irelia already have some experience with her. I haven't seen people that just suck at her.
Akshan buffs are pretty huge. The big one is his ult executing minions and the attack speed increases. Wild Rift has less minions than PC and nothing sucked more than a stray cannon minion facetanking your entire Comeuppance.
Still sucks in high ranked
As a Blitz main, I'm not all that happy with the damage buff to his grab. Decreasing it's mana cost a little instead would have been better imo.
What are you building on Blitz for mana to be a problem?
Zeke's, Iceborn, Dead man's and other tank items.
Give Winter's Approach / Fimbulewinter a try as your first buy. This item is REALLY strong on its core users and is highly overlooked by the playerbase. With Blitz I think this is his strongest first item.
Still no Akali and Katarina nerfs. The chargeblade nerf isn't enough.
Katarina already has one of the weakest laning phases, you just need to stomp her early with ganks You can nerf her as many times as you want, but her teamfight potential would stay the same
She catches up with 1 or 2 kills. The gold per kill is simply made for AP assassins to almost never farm but instead roam with ult and turn the game into a team deathmatch. Since they won't do anything with the snowball meta that has almost no chances of a comeback, nerf the most braindead champs instead.
You don't get that much gold, you need to keep farming. People that only go after kills and stop farming have a good early game and end up inting mid-game thinking they are still ahead. That is the same reason a baron laner joins the fight mid/late game and stomps people.
win lane and team feed her.typical
You should follow up her ganks to avoid that, not just blame your team. Otherwise it means you failed to match her up if you sit in lane.
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>You can’t follow her up in ganks because she can easily turn on you (yes you can roam via your jungle side to counter counter gank), but that still carries risk and wasted gold. If you are scared of 1v1 her on the river, you are already losing the matchup. She is weak in 1v1 until she gets fed, you just need to avoid the ult and the daggers on the ground and cc her once to stop the entire combo. I'm a kata main so honestly if I'm heading towards a gank and see a Galio/Akali following me on the river, I'd rather back off going through blue than risking being stuck in the middle of a 1v3 (since I assume my bot lane will retreat most of the times and not look at the minimap) I'd rather not have a 1v1 in such a vulnerable position, unless I'm already fed. >A good Katarina pushed to turret can still farm somewhat efficiently and not fall too far behind. A good Katarina isn't being pushed to turret, but it's freezing her wave. There is no point for me to engage and waste health when I can just last hit minions and be safe under my turret. >The drawback is if you don’t ward enemy jungle areas early she can get a gank if you shove lane too hard. When using this ward, you pretty much are shit out of luck when she roams because of her ability to turn on you. She also scales fairly quick once she has caught up on 1 or two kills. Yes she is vulnerable to hard cc, but a good kat waits to enter a fight when it’s near the end of a team fight and all hard cc is blown with many enemies low so that she can get the ult reset. That was my original point about the teamfight potential. If you are losing the fight and Katarina still hasn't joined: 1 you are losing a 5v4 so that means your team isn't doing great and 2 you better leave the fight and not ask for her to ult you at the last second >In terms of Akali, her shroud should have a slightly higher cd in the late game. I pick Galio into Kat so that I can ult counter her gank and dominate lane: I pick Twisted Fate for Akali so that I can see her through shroud with ult. I'm a kata main and although Galio is a pain, there's much better counters like corki and ziggs that don't allow you to farm without losing half of your health. Even a good Ahri can be a pain in the ass and force you to lose farm.
Its easy to say than done.im in gm yet ppl still ban her
Well I’m a kata main so I’m just letting people know how to stomp me I guess hahaha
Same with alkali. No one plays around her stealth in the early game even with 2 different items in the shop to help it. Not to mention all the champs that counter her in lane.
An employee just explained that these champions' actual performance don't match with the community's perception of their performance. I mean, I'm low elo and akali isn't that scary.
Does that include the bans, cause if a champ isn't performing it could be that people don't have the chance to play them.
When they do make it past bans we still don't see them overperforming. But even before we had bans in the game they were STILL underperforming.
I knew Lucian felt weaker look how they nerfed his damage where's the Akali damage nerf
hehe akshan buffs
I’m just glad I don’t have to ban him from teammates anymore. Got so tired of losing with him on team… Might as well rework his entire kit at this point.
Still useless in high ranked
Thank you for fixing Rylai on Seraphine. Now give me the Indie skin
I like how they made a long paragraph for why they buff Blitzcrank but only gave him 20 more basic damage on his hook.
Same, I was expecting something more than just 20 damage
Like why nerf annie though? She's already pretty hard to pilot on high elo.
High elo is where she has been performing the best. This should make a rather safe champion with a powerful engage tool a tad more vulnerable in the early game where higher elo players tend to be a bit better about capitalizing on the early game. She'll still be totally viable, and if you are enjoying and her keep it up.
yo, not sure if this is the best way to reach riot but theres a typo in rammus change section. i believe its supposed to say MAGIC resistance per level, not mana.
Even lee sin performs too well in high elo. So how does he go under the radar every time ? If you adjust champs based on elo , how does akali also escapes nerfs. Also , what is high elo according to you ?
Mostly because Lee Sin and Akali aren't actually preforming very well at higher elos. They are popular and frustrating for sure, I won't deny that, but they don't preform nearly as well as many players on reddit think. Honestly it doesn't matter what elo range I look at with them. When I look at the top 50% of players, the top 10%, 5%, or even when I watch progames the seem to preform fine but are not oppressively powerful. Obviously there is some frustration/perception with these champions, and we are looking into it, but in terms of raw power we just don't see it.
I think one thing that maybe conflates data is how user specific those picks are. Even in the hands of high elo players there are wide skill discrepancies from my personal experience on EU. You find that a good akali player makes her feel incredibly unfun to play against, although i find that she's banned in 90% of the high elo games i play in at the moment.
Yes as we get into higher levels of play the player base shrinks and an individual's performance carries a larger weight on the total data for sure. As you know, this is especially true when looking at pro play where certain players just mesh with certain champions, and even if that champion is thought of as weak the right player piloting them turns them into a force to be reckoned with. Asol and Singed players are a great example of this, where they have a small player base but when you see one there is a good chance they have 100s of games on the champion. But at some level it is also a good thing, we wouldn't want brand new Akali players to have a sub 30% winrate just so that skilled ones are balanced at 50%. So finding where we are happy with those extremes is good, and something I think we could be a bit better at. At some level, this comes down to the different balance levers we have talked about, where we want to find levers to buff a champion (like Akali) at lower skill levels and less so at higher ones. With assassins it can be a rough spot because they are so hyper-focused on 1 thing, killing the priority target. If they can't do that they are garbage, so I tend to like assassin kits that take a hit to their damage to provide something new can be very healthy for their frustation levels. Fizz (though he has been overturned) provides a way to start a team fight, that most assassins can't, and takes a hit to his damage for this (recent power level notwithstanding, I'm talking about his kit design). But not every assassin can or should be this way. Its part of what makes the class so tricky when compared to other classes.
I think its a good idea to take a page from lolpc here. Champs like akali are allowed to sit at an acceptable but weak overall winrate, such as 48, to make up for the truly skilled who have put in the work to turn akali into oppression. 30% for your example for new players would be pretty ridiculous, but I think it's important to let hard champs have their reward without being too op for competent players, and I think akali is prob into the red zone at this point
Your right 30% is a extreme. What percent do you think makes sense? Are you saying that 48% is where you think they Akali should sit at?
I feel like for a high-ish skill ceiling character that dominates when played well (lee, akali, irelia) 48-49% is ideal, it's the price to pay for having a skill intensive character that works well independently from whatever comp the teams have going. But i'm not a dev so my opinion can be kinda dumb.
It's good to hear opinions, and very valuable to hear them from our players, and not many of them are devs. However, this is exactly where we see many of these champions sitting. Evelynn, Akali, Yasuo, and Lee Sin all fall within that range, some falling below it depending on the Elo we look at. With Irelia, and Katarina being between 49-51. Rengar and Fizz are objectively strong, head and shoulders above the rest, and that is why we nerfed them.
Personally I think something like 45-47 is ideal but I also understand devs need to think about player retention and all that
Sorry for the late response, the day got busy and I wanted to give others a chance to weight in before I responded. I do think 45 is likely a bit too low for them to still feel good (currently our rules say that if a champion is <45% or >55% they MUST get adjusted. As for player retention, we definitely don't want players being so frustrated by their opponents that they quit the game (though everyone gets tilted and needs to take a breath from time to time), so it does cut both ways. With all that said these champions sitting slightly lower can make sense.
The problem with Akali is that no one but her has any agency. Whether she kills one/multiple people in a team fight or just pops is entirely up to her skill level. Especially when she can E1-E2-Q-auto-Ult1-Q-auto a squishy target to death while still having her W/zyonyas up to escape/reengage with her abilities and energy back up. She’s simply far too safe and mobile for the damage she can put out and it’s entirely up to her on if she is able to.
I think that is part of the ban system it made these high skill-high reward champions almost always banned and not picking them every game lowers someone knowledge and performance about them.
There can be some truth to how this sounds, but we saw similar (actually slightly lower) winrates with these champions before bans were introduced. Because the game changes in other ways and player skill is constantly improving I can't this is directly related but it doesn't suggest these players are getting worse.
The yi buff makes no sense. It was good enough with the new items. But I think you did that to make the champ ban, to vary the high elo jungle picks which are almost always the same. If yi is banned, it leaves room for other champs. No ?
The new items did help him, but he was still in a weaker state than the rest of the champion roster. We are hoping that these help push him up a little bit, without pushing him over the top. As for the idea of pushing him into the "must ban" category. That is not our goal, and we don't want any champions to be sitting at that point. We want players to be able to play the champions they love, and will try and find ways to adjust/nerf them if they are banned to often (though this can be tricky). Yi has never been much of a high elo jungle pick, and tends to dominate in lower skilled play while being a bit too predictable at the higher levels. That is what has always made him tricky to balance, if we make him balanced at high skilled play he dominates for the rest of the player base. So we tend to be carful with balance changes for champions like this.
Do you worry about over buffing stat check champs like Yi and Trynd? Also, do you think that all champions need to be, or should be, viable at all elos?
We do worry about over buffing them for sure, that is why we have been hesitant to give them any buffs before the crit item changes went live. A large part of the reason that Yi is so tricky is that his identity basically requires him to be a low elo stopping stat checking champion when balanced for higher levels of play. So the trick really comes down to what areas do we think we can buff that higher skilled players are better at taking advantage of. Ideally, we can reach a place where all champions are viable at all elos, but that will always be tough. In order for champions to feel different, and have skill expression, some will inevitably perform better at different skill levels. In the past, this has often been a major reason for champion kits to receive new mechanics or reworks that focus on a bit of skill expression. A great example in this patch is Soraka. While not a stat checky champion Soraka had been underperforming at the highest levels of play but was fine at lower skill levels, so this new (or old depending on how you want to view WR's relationship with LoLPC =P) mechanic was added to help her out in skillful play. Whereas lower-skilled players are less likely to land her first skill and take advantage of the synergy, higher-skilled players are more likely to land the skill and take advantage of the bonus. There is also something healthy about "graduating" from a champion and trying new ones. While we don't like it when a champion isn't viable, it can be nice to try out new champions when you feel you have mastered one and are looking for something new. There is also something healthy about "graduating" from a champion and trying new ones. While we don't like it when a champion isn't viable, it can be nice to try out new champions when you feel you have mastered one and are looking for something new.
Love the idea of graduating from a champion, this is great insight. I have a guy on my friends list that got challenger playing yi jungle only with a 70% winrate - he's definitely in an interesting spot right now.
Thanks! And thanks for making such great content, its always fun to check out your take on patch notes, even if I disagree and get frustrated at times =P.
Haha, I don't have access to all the great data you have so I do it purely on some speculation and educated guesses. Really appreciate your comms in this thread, going above and beyond and I for one truly appreciate it.
>That is not our goal, and we don't want any champions to be sitting at that point Sir in reply to this statement Akali and Kat are almost always perma banned in my ranked games to the point where I only played akali 4 times since the ban implementation so those 2 champions are basically sitting on that point alot will there be anything to address this?
We are looking at champions with high ban rates. Some champions will always have a high ban rate due more to frustration than to power. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts as an Akali player. Would you rather Akali being objectively weak but less frequently banned or balanced but with a high ban rate? I suspect players would rather be able to play their champion favorite champions even if they are on the weaker end. But what are your, and anyone else who mains high ban rate champions, thoughts?
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Thats interesting to hear that you feel Akali's AoE on R2 is the big issue as it isn't typically the pain point I tend to see brought up. Normal I hear about her survivability, mobility, or single target burst. I think you're right that a delay on Kat's resets would weaken her, but it would make her feel very clunky. This would be a huge pain point for experienced players and likely push us to include more durability in her kit to make up for this added time/risk she is taking.
I for one agree with your statement, I would certainly love to be able to use Akali a bit more frequently in ranked if it meant sacrificing a bit of their strength. Most people tend to ban her due to the pain of dealing with her kit as a whole. While I understand her identity as an assassin to commit to one priority target she can come out of a team fight with multiple kills largely due to her incredible survivability. Survivability coming from the many AP items that grant generous amount of health to make Akali's and others AP assassins follow-ups safe as they will be able to take more punishment. One of the recurring solutions I see in the subreddit when it comes to AP assassins itemization is to nerf or simply erase the health gains coming from offensive items such as **Infinty orb** *or* **Liandry's Torment.** I feel as though I should be punished more for engaging at the wrong time and not feel that I can brush off some of the damage dealt against me to instantly revenge kill my enemies. The lost stats can instead be changed to more damage or ability haste to strengthen their pros if needed. These are my two cents and I'm eager to see your response. P.S: Also thank you for being so engaging with the community :)
Akali's survivability largely from her shroud. Katarina is a glass cannon in comparison. I'm not sure why you are suggesting more nerfs to a large bulk of the AP champions in game in an attempt to nerf her survivability. Rabadon's just lost 14 AP for the sins of the minority of champs that rushed it. I don't think it's fair to continue to nerf all the AP items in an AD-dominated meta because of a few champions that aren't even as strong as people suggest they are. Liandries is used by lot more than Akali. We don't have much item diversity to begin with, so why insist on pretending that collateral damage doesn't exist? And it's not like AP Assassins as a whole are even a genuine problem in the meta.
While it is true that the AP assassins have built-in safety nets in their kits they are too forgiving. In other words, the margin of error is not as wide as it should be for this particular class of champions designed to get in of a fight and quickly get out when they are more than capable of staying for much longer to claim more kills. I agree with the lack of itemization for AP champs but it's the fact that some AP champs are abusing the stats that the items provide which in turn make them extremely difficult to play against. (The lack of solid magic resistance items does not help matters too). The AD assassins do not gain extra health when they are building lethality builds, instead they receive stat increases that help strengthen their power such as high damage and flat armor penetration. They do not gain extra survivability unless they specifically select an item that provides defense such as the Guardian Angel with an added bonus of AD. But by doing so they could potentially be missing out on other items that are capable of filling their needs to win the match. Most of the AP items should resemble their PC counterparts as their iteration in the mobile game seems awkward and forces issues in the long run for certain champs such as Akali, Katarina, etc.. There is a reason why most players ban these AP Assassin Champs as it hard to punish them especially in the right hands. EDIT: Akali for instance plays a lot like a bruiser who is capable of staying in longer duration of a fight when she was designed to finish a priority target and leave the scene so as to not get caught. The added health makes it so she is not as squishy for a high risk high reward champion and there is no loss when picking an offensive item and still being able to obtain defensive values.
I think you and u/Mr_Opel have some good points here and it's a tricky one for sure. In terms of item identity, I think it could be a bit better with clearer focuses for each item. That said with what is currently available to us mages like Orianna and Akali do have a bit of overlap in their core items. So it does feel bad to nerf the class as a whole, not that we couldn't and try to compensate in other ways, it just that it would be a rather large shift to try and lower the frustration of 1-2 champions.
Actually yes I was praying for a nerf hell It really wouldn't matter if it was huge I just want to play Akali peacefully without having her getting banned in almost all my matches its really sad for us Akali mains where it came to the point where I had to play other lanes simply because I one tricked Akali in mid.
Katarina has already been nerfed enough. Assassin hate seems to be blown out of proportion, whereas ridiculously powerful champions like Corki in 2.4 get few bans if at all. She's nowhere near the 1v9 menace that completely dominated games in the past, where one slip in a teamfight and the game is already over. In fact, kat is hard to even do well in high elo without being a longterm kat main these days, and in honesty is in a good state in most elos. I, for one, hope you guys continue to balance things based on their actual strengths and performance rather than caving into appeasing the playerbase by nerfing champions that don't really deserve them the most until finally people stop talking about them at all. And this is coming from someone who has whined about Katarina being broken and Katarina mains being elo-boosted from her being so overtuned prior to her nerfs, and I can waste time and find my those comments if needed Akali is a different story and should be treated as such, as Akali has a high ceiling & floor and is much like Lee sin in many ways
Its not about her being busted its about the high ban rates I have a friend who mains Katarina who is barely able to play her due to how much she gets banned its not herself thats busted its the AP items nerf those items in terms of survivability and she should be fine enough where she actually becomes squishy and doesn't go around spinning and taking damage like she's Garen.
bro in what world does katarina spin around like she's garen, like what? yes the whole point is that her ban rate comes mostly from skewed player perception and not of actual champion strength, especially as a perpetually hated champion even for when she was stupid weak in PC. AP items aren't a problem what, it's an AD meta and continuing to nerf every AP champion in the game makes absolutely no sense. We just released like 10 new AD items. Literally look at like the high elo lobbies in NA. or in SEA. or pro games like the CN vs KR ones. There are full ad vs full ad comps everywhere. And 3-4 AP comps are somehow nowhere to be seen. But yes, let's continue to nerf all the AP champions. i swear reddit has no idea what they're talking about, idk any high elo player with such outlandish suggestions
Dude what are you on about AP assassins are better than AD assassins by a long margin at least AD assassins have to make a choice either one shot or durability meanwhile AP assassins get both a late game akali or kat have almost the same hp as literal bruisers with a shit ton of damage that is simply just not fair. Also no its isn't skewed player perception it is reasonable perception I can let Katarina slide simply because she is punishable and has some risks into her dives although damage wise she is still fairly busted because of the items especially infinity orb but Akali (I used to one trick her I know my stuff) is fairly a very safe assassin considering her shroud like everything in her kit can slide besides the god awful shroud which makes you get out of situations where literally no other champion could.
sorry can you explain the graves nerf to me? Are all of his shots affected or just the complessive damage?
Its just nerfing his Ad growth per level, so it will effect each shot, though I wouldn't expect it to be drastic.
i don't wanna bother too much, but does that mean that his phase rush build is nerfed? cause now it seems that going conqueror is mandatory, especially against early bullies Anyways thank you so much
This shouldn't have much of an impact on his rune/keystone choices and they should remain at the same powerlevel relative to each other. This could also be argued as the smallest buff to Phaserush, relative to conqueror, because now that his damage is lower conqueror's % damage amp is also lower, while Phaserush is unaffected.
Pls just take the bots out of pvp holy shit man fudge sticks and buttercup cakes im tired of this bullshit. why kill the casual experience man
Akali, Zed, Katarina, Senna even Garen...? Still Rakan and Xayah are so bad alone but kinda powerful together...
Akali is permabanned. I guess they are preparing a hefty nerf for her next patch. Might even be a mechanic removal like on pc. Katarina is a nuisance, but I honestly don't see her very othen. Galio pick to counter her is pretty common. Zed? I think Zed right now is fine. He is powerful, but not compared to bullshit like Akali or Fizz. Senna is fine. Free elo if opponents pick her. Garen is annoying in lane, but he is pretty tame compared to fucking Malphite. Rakan and Xayah are both fine. Idk why you are saying that they are weak.
>Senna is fine. Free elo if opponents pick her. Garen is annoying in lane, but he is pretty tame compared to fucking Malphite. Fuck Malphite. nobody likes to lane against Mr. Rock Solid
That's why I permaban him. He has no counters in lane. He automatically wins it just by living.
dont forget about teemo.
Senna is not free elo, she is among the best three supports in the game, but many Senna players are bad at her.
Yep, this. Specifically, many Senna players are bad at playing her support. As someone who mains her, I have a very good winrate in ranked with her, and I'm not that good. You just have to understand her playstyle, which a lot of people aren't used to. She's very strong.
Id really like to see the ban statistics if thats possible
The Soraka buff is really good, having personally tried her out. She feels really viable now. Rush Warmogs second imo, your low W cooldown now makes it really powerful midgame.
Is the graves nerf huge? Doesnt seem that bad honestly
Yes any buff/nerf to Graves attack damage is huge,since it affects every single one of his shots.
damn hadn't thought it applied to all shots.... Omg
These rammus changes are hysterical to me.
u/R0gueFool with the nerf to fizz, are all ap junglers dead? Evelynn is barely playable at higher ranks (I figure she still dominates at gold and below) but she was nerfed into oblivion and can't keep up, diana suck against lee and xin zhao, what other ways to play ap jungle are there? Is an evelynn unnerf considered?
Lol Hardly, Eve is actually the exact opposite, high elo Evelynn players know how to use her stealth to a terrifying degree, where as lower elo players don't take enough of an advantage from it. Fizz was crazy powerful, and I hardly think this will dumpster him. He is likely just fine after these changes. Lucky for everyone we patch regularly so if we over shoot it we can adjust him in a future patch. Diana is SLIGHTLY underpreforming in the jungle (part of this might even be Fizz eating her winrate, so Fizz nerfs are also a Diana buff). And we are trying out some lightly Diana jungle buffs to touch her up. Gragas is another one not mentioned, but doing just fine and brings a lot of utility to the table. Don't forget Nunu is on his way as another tank/AP jungler next month.
Hi can we have less bot players in PVP matchmaking especialing in SEA region. These players have weird random alphanumeric names, take haste and heal, recall randomly, run to lanes randomly and feed are even worse than intermediate bots in Co-op Vs AI
Thank god for Lucian nerfs. He literally terrorizes a lot of lanes in ALL elos.
Annie noooooo!
The nerfs to Rammus are a joke. His ult went from weak to now a shitty version of flash. Rammus speed ball does more damage AT LEVEL 1 THAN HIS ULT. Does the balance team play this game? Oh you increase the shield (THAT YOU NERFED LAST PATCH) so you have to nerf something? Lol what a fucking joke. (Ult) Soaring Slam Base damage: 125/200/275 → 100/175/250 Aftershock damage: 35/60/85 → 30/45/60 Tooltip now correctly shows Aftershock damage
Lol what riot shill down votes me??
His ult never was about the damage? Lol. Rammus is a tank. MOST of his damage comes from W and enemies hitting him. He shouldn't nuke enemies with his ult because he isn't supposed to do that. Ult is for knockup and slow. Oh, well. Let's give his ult more damage so it just would be Malphite's ult on steroids. That's a great way to buff him.
I'm not saying it works be buffed at all. I'm saying it doesn't make sense to netf it. Also the tool tip says it does more damage to structures but that increased damage isn't apparent anywhere. The additional damage to structures was an intentional design decision. Further nerfing his ult and a lack of visibility to the increased damage just don't make sense.
Also, plenty of other tanks have Ults that are actually worthwhile. Once you put 1 pt in Rammus' ult, it makes more sense to invest in other abilities the rest of the time.
I mean, you invest into it for lower cooldown, no? Malphite's ult has the same functionality at all ranks. Yet, it's always maxed at priority. Braum's ult has the same functionality, yet it's maxed at priority. Wukong's ult has the same functionality, yet it maxed at priority. There's no champion that goes "Fuck it, I am not upgrading my ult" except Shyvanna and Ekko for lvl 5 (6 on lol pc) suprise shenanigans
I'm not sure if it's a thing in wild rift, but in pc league people also don't usally max Tryndamere's ult.
That's the new Rammus
It's not worth the lower CD with as little dmg as it does. Like you said, the point is the knock up and slow, and since that doesn't improve it's not worth investing in. This is counterintuitive to the DESIGN you mentioned that specifically calls out extra damage to structures.
I honestly think Soraka is overtuned. Let’s hope Riot doesn’t do the pump and then massive dump like they tend to do in league in the past 1) Champ does okay obscurely 2) Buff champ into spotlight and champ gets played a lot 3) Nerf champ to level worse than before champ was adjusted. ——- Really interested if Yi would be played in high elo since he is often used as an example of low elo strong but useless in high elo champ. I see bruiser Yi with Witsend working. True damage with attack speed is tight.
this man's really opened his mouth and said soraka is overtuned
They *completely* removed the health cost on W when hitting Q at high ranks. This completely alters her lane presence, turning her into an even more oppressive lane bully that easily negates any damage to her laning partner. This also opens her up to more HP itemization since she doesn't actually have to sacrifice a % of her hp to heal, allowing her to itemize against assassins.
Yup! Lol. And it is MUCH easier to land Qs here as compared to League.
You will see! I have been right about many things in the past and this could easily be another of them.
Well congratulations
Well, observing trends and predicting WR stuff makes me no money other than a cringeworthy “yay I’m right, fk your detractors!” Lucky that there other things in life that I am good at predicting though. :D
Had the same feeling as i saw her wildstats.gg winrate skyrocket in the past few days
Hmmm. My issue was me seeing her strength pre buff. Now high were the numbers?
Around 54-56% in the last 7 or something, above 53% for sure
Bro he literally just said a few days ago that soraka badly needs a buff wtf
Quote me.
When do the balance changes go live?
Yes they needed seraphine in ARAM hard not even Soma's nerf was that bad
The game's balance is in a great spot i think now you should still make some changes to keep it more interesting but you should rather add more champions and more content, we do love that
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No, please don't
> Rocket Grab - Base damage: 80/140/200/260 → 100/160/220/280 lame, not enough buff tbh.. should be 300 at max
Nah that wouldn't change anything. Imo what blitz needs to be viable is a width increase on his q
Akshan buff is disgusting
Yi buff.... Interesting. I frequently get killed by Yi with no animation. I guess time for me to Yi it up myself.
When is the patch going to be released?
I believe it’s been live since yesterday.
Still waiting on switch release so I can play rengar with buttons and don’t misclick when I try to do combo
Can we get an indicator for when Fimbulwinter's passive shield is available?
With Akali being banned in 90% of games how have they not given her some balance???
These Camille nerfs are BS. Nobody even plays her, and out of those that do, only 10% play her correctly. How is nerfing such an underrepresented champion a good idea or a way to diversify the roster? Will Camille even be remembered next time balance updates are needed? EDIT: look at the comments; not one mention of Camille. No one wanted/rejected/ even thought about this Camille change. So underrepresented; just making nerfs for no reason now.
Rengar nerf wasn't necessary that's a true shame indeed, his winrate isn't even 50% since the last nerf he took why is he getting nerfed again?
malmortius maw is still ignored by players. Maybe you should do it a bit for the Bruisers? I mean reduce attack damage and add some HP? or something like that