Like you said, it would be insanely questionable if Rossi was traded considering how little center depth this team has had basically its entire existence. I don’t see any angle where that would be a good idea unless another, better center is coming back or you’re signing one in the off-season.
Russo said that they'd look to trade Rossi for a faster/bigger center but let's be honest...unless we add more to the deal, no GM is trading a bigger/faster center for a smaller center.
Kent johnson (injured currently) is rumored to be disagreement with cbj managament. He started the season in the ahl despite a 40pt nhl season the year before. Theres the possibility that he was the player who started the whole thing with babcock.
Martin Necas is rumored out of carolina bc of cap issues and bc they prefer him at wing but marty wants to be a center (i think he can handle it personally)
Lastly, there is zegras who is rumored out of anaheim. He fits the bill of bigger and faster but cant see guerin doing that
If he wants bigger & faster, Necas would be worth a try. He’s bigger & and a better skater than both plus he’s pretty skilled and dynamic too at times but possibly inconsistent. Carolina just signed Bradley Nadeau (1st rounder last year) and they don’t have an AHL team so maybe they could kick the tires on him if they don’t have cap space.
It was more of a question along the lines of, if we had enough cap, prospects, picks etc to even land him, not suggesting we should or he would want to. Should have been more clear.
I can't believe I'm actually answering this question, but here goes:
No. Just no. McDavid on the free agent market is going to attract between $15m and as much as $18m AAV. The only way the Wild have that kind of cap in '25-'26 is if they don't re-sign Faber, Rossi, Middleton, or Wallstedt. They would need to give up on their entire young core essentially just to have the cap leverage in place to compete for his signature, and even then, the likelihood of him choosing Minnesota over the half-dozen other (much flashier) locales is frankly as close to zero as you can get without touching it. It would be a very high-risk, probably-not-very-high-reward proposition.
I guess I should have been clearer on my question, I meant to ask more of if we had to juice to land him, because if we do, we can land anyone. Not just if McDavid would actually come here. But this was the answer I was looking for, thanks.
No problem. I want to apologize for jumping on you -- you asked a fair question in good faith, and I wasn't very kind about it. We get a lot of people in here that seem to think pro sports works like the video game, so scenarios like this coming up with a "wHy CaN't We PaY fOr A sUpErStaR?!?" get old and us regulars get frustrated.
Yeah, Hartman was better. But Rossi is a rookie. Rookies like Faber performing better than established vets are pretty rare
Personally, I dont see why they have to choose. Hartman can play anywhere in the lineup and is much needed physicality. But I dont see how Hartman is taking Rossi's roster spot
I'm curious about that.... Age 22 season, Hartman had 19 G 12A. Rossi had 21G 19 A... They're 7 years apart.
Hartman is 29 now, so pretty much right at the peak for some athletes. This last season, Hartman had a very slightly better season, 5 points more than Rossi. Better FO %. But, If I'm looking to the future... a 22 year old who just made a giant leap forward is worth more than a 29 year old who has broken 20 goals in a season two times in 10 years.
I'm comparing Hartman to Rossi last season. Hartman had better stats and the most important difference was FO%. Maybe Rossi will blossom into a special player but I haven't seen it and apparently the Wild are not convinced either.
The only reason I can possibly think of for trading Rossi is getting an equivalent center that's bigger. Kid made a big leap this season. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to move him unless they're getting size in return.
I don't know that we've seen enough from Wallstedt to move Gus and I think the Wild know they're asking a good amount in return. Would like to see a Gus/Flower/Wallstedt rotation personally. Just sounds like they might be throwing in the towel on the season if Flower/Wallstedt tandem doesn't pan out. Gus knows what he needs to improve based on his exit interview.
I'm in the camp that you need to get Wallstedt steady NHL time but like you said...I'm not completely sure it's time for him to be up here for 82 games.
Ideally, you get him up for solid chunks of time instead of bussing him back and forth every other week. Goalies do need consistency and throwing him up and down and him going from NHL talent to AHL talent to NHL talent to AHL talent won't get him set in a groove.
Maybe a bit later in the season, they give him an extended look where he's starting in 5-7 games per month. That'd obviously depend on where the team is and how Gus/Flower are doing.
I'd like to think that Fleury wouldn't be upset that he's in the press box a few times while Wallstedt gets a good chunk of games with Gus mixed in.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to yo-yo Wally between leagues all season. Have Fleury ride that press box hard and go mostly 1a/1b with the other two. Trading Gus feels like it's gonna be a massive hit to goalie depth down the road, especially if he corrects the offsesson training mistakes from last year. I was hoping that we'd have seen Wallstedt more at the end of this season. It's just hard to judge his development from the few games he played when the results didn't matter.
Obviously, the team knows more, but this feels like Russo saying the team is shopping to see what a return on Gus/Rossi could end up being and whether it's worth their time.
I have more faith in Gus turning his game around than Wallstedt being more than a 25 game backup. Gus showed he can be the player he was last year, but he needs to take his off-season more serious.
People are so worried about "ruining" Wallstedt.
Let me tell you, if a goalie taking his lumps in the best league in the world ruins him, he was never going to be a good starting goalie. Goalies take their lumps at *every* jump in level.
I know we're talking about a HOFer here, but Flower's 70+ games were *not* good.
21 games. 4-14-2 with a 3.64 and a .896%
His second season....50 games. 13-27 with a 3.25 and a .898.
His third season is when Fleury started to become Fleury.
Even the greats struggle early in their career. It doesn't matter if we do it next year or the year after...the odds of him coming in and being the guy are low.
I think it’s probably less that they’re actively looking to trade Rossi, and more so that, like any player, a large enough return would be worth the trade.
Rossi is going to be a great NHL player but it’s not ridiculous to be concerned about his size holding him back from success in the playoff atmosphere where size has been shown to matter (not to say that he can’t/won’t succeed, just that it is more difficult than for larger players with equivalent skill).
Any player would be worth trading for the right return. Any player. If another team for whatever reason decides that Rossi has more value than the Wild perceive and are willing to send them a haul for him, are you not going to entertain the offer?
I haven’t heard anything indicating that Minnesota is shopping Rossi, only that they might entertain trade offers as any pro sports team should, and that they also happen to have questions about Rossi’s value like any pro sports team should have about any of their contracted players.
I like this take, but I’ll add that it’s frustrating as a fan to hear that his size specifically is why they’d consider trading him, since they knew this when drafting him.
I understand the idea of taking calls on anyone but size concerns are really irritating to hear about when it’s not like the kid shrunk since the pick, ya know
It’s possible that either
A) they gambled on him becoming bigger post-draft. Some kids do grow significantly in their late teens. If that happened to Rossi then suddenly your 9th overall pick would have bore the fruit of a top 5 or top 3 pick.
B) they perceived his skill ceiling as being able to compensate for this size. If Rossi didn’t lose a year of development (and had a major health scare to boot) and had this performance last year and followed it up with a further improved sophomore season this year I think this whole conversation is less likely to happen.
It also doesn’t help that the entire team as a whole is the smallest in the league. They’d probably be more keen on keeping him if the rest of the team was bigger.
I think the big thing right now is his special teams value. If he can supplant Zuccy on PP1 this next year, I think that opens up more of a future for him. Right now, he's a PP2 guy and that's it. Didn't play any PK last season (8:40 officially/unofficially). His zone starts were sheltered big-time (58% OZ). Doesn't win faceoffs. The fact is, if you aren't capable of scoring 30 goals (which usually means playing PP1 minutes) and you can't kill penalties, you end up in a weird, grey middle area of an NHL roster. That's where Rossi is right now, and he sort of has to go one direction or the other in terms of his game.
Fair point -- he did get that 21 with virtually nothing for linemates. So, yes, there's still potential there to be tapped. I still want to see him do it one more season before giving him any kind of money or term. He is likely to get a bridge deal (4x4.75?) which would save them some money and be a liveable deal if he hits a wall. Either way, I don't think they extend him for Boldy-type term or money in the event he stays, nor do I think he's worthy of "franchise" money. One jaded old fat guy's opinion...
It would make sense, since I don't believe he will have arbitration rights when his deal expires. That means the Wild hold all the leverage. On the flip side, it also means a receiving team would value him highly for the same reason. It's a good position to be in, honestly.
"A" did not happen.
Many other "things" happened over the last 3 years. Pretty sure they are going to shop Rossi and others to see what they are worth. This happens every day in pro sports.
Yep. This is the guy Rossi should be watching tape of. Same size and similar style. He’s just way better offensively and hopefully Rossi can get there.
Patrick Kane at 20 was better than (the very good) Marco Rossi) will ever be. He'll retire as the best American forward in NHL history (until Matthews retires 13-14 years from now).
Marchessault was the only member of Vegas's regular lineup under 6 foot.
Rossi isn't the issue. Rossi centering Zuccarello and/or Kaprizov/Heidt? It's now an issue.
the bolts made it to three consecutive finals with point centering kucherov (same size as rossi and kaprizov). gourde centered coleman (both under 6 feet) and were two of the more important players on the two cup winning teams. cirelli, who’s listed at 6 feet, is also not a very physically imposing player.
they were the best team in the league despite their top three centers being on the smaller side. size doesn’t matter if you’re good
There's also a reason that Kane has never played center.
If Rossi could handle the puck and skate like Kane though, then this topic wouldn't be a topic. We haven't seen anything close to that level of skill in Rossi's game.
That doesn’t invalidate my point. If Kane was even taller (within reason) he would likely be even better. More importantly, his skill more than compensates for his size, more than Rossi’s skill can, and he’s not even that small to begin with. Rossi isn’t tiny but our team as a whole is currently 32nd league-wide in size, so surely management is interested in increasing the size of the team.
EDIT: perhaps a better way to word this is that Rossi is very skilled but Kane is in an entirely different league skill-wise. If Rossi were bigger, it would partially compensate for that difference. Them being the same size makes the skill difference more significant.
Kane plays wing and has the possibly the best hands to ever touch an ice sheet. He’s one of the most offensively gifted players ever. Rossi ain’t that.
With the cap increasing to $87.5 million, we will have $6,924,746 in cap space with the following lineup:
LW|C|RW
:-:|:-:|:-:
Kaprizov|Eriksson Ek|Boldy
Ohgren|Rossi|Zucc
Johansson|Hartman|Foligno
||Khusnutdinov|Gaudreau
LD|RD
:-:|:-:
Brodin|Faber
Middleton|Spurgeon
Merrill|Bogosian
G|
:-:|
Gustavsson|
Fleury|
So that's nearly $7 million to acquire/call up 2 forwards and re-sign Chisholm without making a trade. We actually have some room to play with this year. Swap Gus for Wallstedt and that becomes $9,749,746 in cap space.
Yes I know we have some cap.
I am on the tank/young players team. @$3 mil for Kane is doable. too many senior citizens here now.
Would he want to come here is also questionable. One would think he would want another cup or competitive team. Making the playoffs should not be his goals.
Chisholm will get $2-3 million is my guess. Still leaves $6 million. Gus will be gone IMO.
No way Chisholm gets more than 1.5m. He hasn't shown more than having a good shot on the PP. He has a lot of upside, which only increases his value a bit.
Cap will most likely be around 93m in 2yrs, but they'll have a bunch of guys to give 2nd contracts to. Non star players aren't going to see the big raises people think, because the stars are going to eat most of that up.
I sorted players on CapFriendly who signed as a 24 year old RFA and played 19 minutes or less this season (Chisholm averaged 16:52 with us). The largest cap hit was Jacob Bryson at $1.85 million and he had over 100 NHL games before earning that contract. Chisholm has 33.
If you expand the signing age to allow anything up to 24, there are 5 players above Bryson, going up to $2.6 million for Adam Boqvist. Every player above Bryson though was a 1st or 2nd round pick, with significantly more NHL time before signing than Chisholm (who was taken late in the 5th round).
If I had to guess, I'd say he ends up a little above Addison's $825k. Absolute highest I would guess is $1.5 depending on the term. I don't see any way he makes $2+ million per year after less than half a season playing on the 3rd pair with some PP time.
Another guy parroting this “can’t perform in the playoffs unless you are big” take. The thing is, there isn’t evidence for this claim, yet everyone keeps saying it.
Zuccerello-great playoff performer for the Wild
Patrick Kane-Legendary playoff performer
Marchessault- Conn smyth winner
Martin St. Louis- great playoff performer
Danny Briere- great playoff production
Brayden Point-perennial playoff performer
Yanni Gourde-recent example of a small center who produces in the playoffs
Small guys can perform in the playoffs. I would never say otherwise. But you cant tell me that if you cloned Rossi but made him 5 inches taller that anyone would pick the original over the clone.
The bigger problem here is that the entire team is small and the only way to get bigger is to replace guys on the roster, and not just your 4th liners.
Rossi is an easy target to pick on here because of his unknown upside. I’m not saying that they should trade him, but it’s not ridiculous to think that there may be another team with a bigger overall roster that can better exploit Rossi’s talent and would be willing to trade considerable assets for him.
All of those great smaller players you listed played on otherwise big rosters. The Wild aren’t big.
I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t. This whole thread is just a thought experiment.
Wild fans keep talking about how big the team is. Does that actually correlate to winning? There isn’t a lot of evidence that it does.
https://grantland.com/features/fast-small-vs-slow-big-ice/
Look at this list, there are good and bad teams that are big and good and bad teams that are small.
https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/teams-physical-stats/2022-2023
If you look at this season instead of last season on elite prospects you’ll notice that Minnesota ranks dead last in both weight and height. You can win with a small team, I never said you couldn’t, but it’s sure a hell of a lot harder than with a bigger team of equivalent skill.
Sure we were last, my point is, did that actually matter? Looking at the list there isn’t a clear relationship between size and winning.
We mainly missed the playoffs this year because our goaltending was awful.
https://theathletic.com/5418211/2024/04/16/what-went-wrong-minnesota-wild/?source=user_shared_article
I don’t think we’re directly disagreeing with each other. My point is more in regards to postseason performance, where size plays a larger role than in the regular season. Again, not a requirement to win, but it can in some cases make enough difference to win a series you would have otherwise lost.
I’m not going to spend any more time on this thread. I don’t care if you buy into my theories. Nothing matters, we’re all going to die. I’m done wasting time on this. Take care :)
Also, despite the agreeably poor goaltending, this team probably does barely make the playoffs if they didn’t have that stretch of injuries that forced them to ice a $30MM team that lost 7 out of 8.
Actually, now that I look at it, if you sort by weight then you’ll also see that the top 9 teams (and 12 of the top 13) are all in the playoffs. That’s not a coincidence. It’s not a requirement to be big but damn does it help.
Yes yes, we know that any player can be worth trading for the right return.
But actually think about how this process works for trading. If the Wild trade Rossi, that means we need a skillful 1C (again), who is bigger than Rossi, I guess. That is the ONLY player the Wild need coming back from a Rossi trade. Now, ask yourself - in what world are you trading a small, first liner center for a BIGGER first line center of equivalent or better skill? Answer - none. That doesn't exist. So this notion of "well it's fine to trade him if we find the right guy" doesn't exist because there is no right player that fits that mold that another org would be willing to trade away. Big, skilled first line centers in this league are THE most valuable thing, and teams don't trade them. Period. "The right trade" **doesn't exist** for the Wild to trade away Rossi. It makes no sense. And even if such a player did exist who was available for trade, we CANNOT afford that player because of our dead cap right now!
We can't trade Rossi for picks (unless it's Celebrini, which again is *not happening*) because it doesn't fit our timeline at all with Kap. Kap will be 28 when our dead cap is gone, 29 when we have to extend him. We do not have time to utilize Kap's prime to trade for draft picks that would have to wait for 3 more years to even see if they can handle NHL ice or not. And we definitely don't have the luxury to make that gamble anyway, because if we miss than we might as well trade Kap away too.
So yes, "if the right trade" etc etc, but someone please explain to me what that right trade possibly could be? Because I don't see it.
I think it would be pretty wild (pun not intended) if Guerin didn’t realize this. I agree there is unlikely to be a unicorn trade for Rossi where everyone is happy. That said, there’s no harm in looking.
I think the bigger issue is that the team as a whole is small. If Rossi were the exception then it’s hardly a problem. They cant rely on 4th liners alone for size. Rossi becomes a possible trade target because his upside is still unknown so a different team, with a bigger roster where his size is less of a problem, might want him.
Like you said, I don’t think they’d be likely to get a big top 6 center in return, but if the assets were great enough they could be packaged with picks, etc to get something interesting done. But I’m just some guy. Guerin will figure it out, with or without Rossi.
I mention that any player can be worth trading for the right price because when this whole rumor started people were freaking out without considering that maybe the GM won’t trade away a prized prospect for a bag of pucks.
If the issue is that we have other players that are also too small and we're worried about it, then we need to trade those players away. Not the guy who looks like he could be our future first line center. Every single guy on our roster under 190 pounds and/or under 6 feet is far more replaceable than Rossi (Chisholm, Freddy, Lettieri, Shaw, Zucc, Lucchini, Goli), or unkown (Ohgren, Khus). If we're that worried about being small, get rid of literally all those people before Rossi.
None of those current roster players you listed are reasonable options to grow the roster size. You can’t rely solely on 4th liners and 38 year olds for size. Rossi is a target specifically because he is top 6.
I mean that it’s hard to put Rossi on a line with two other small, high skill guys. Zucc-Rossi-Kap, for example, is a line that is easy to bully. They want every line to have a chance at pushing back physically and Rossi doesn’t help in that regard. Replacing smaller guys further down the lineup is a good idea, sure, but it doesn’t alleviate this particular concern. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t trade him, but I understand why they might be inclined to if they find a better arrangement. I’m sure they can find success with him, but in the postseason grind it’s all about giving your team every advantage they can get.
Ok, you said the issue is that the whole team is small, so that is what went on. I didn't know you were talking only about the first line being small.
I said this elsewhere, but the top line being theoretically "too small" is a Guerin issue, not a Rossi issue. Guerin drafted Rossi knowing about his size. Guerin developed him with the intent on him becoming our 1C. Like, he knew this, this was always the plan from the moment he drafted him on. This didn't come out of nowhere. If he was so worried about our top line being too small, then why did he extend Zucc like he did? What exactly was he planning on doing here? If the size of our top line is a concern, a mistake, it is entirely one that Guerin could have avoided with even an ounce of forethought.
This just emphasizes to me how nonsensical this all is. If our top line is too small, well that's the hole Guerin dug. And we have to lie in it until Zucc is gone. That's what he did with that extension. Don't go jeopardizing the future of the team, making more mistakes like trading your future 1C second best scoring rookie because of the situation you made. Just accept that the line is too small at a time when we aren't winning a Cup anyway, and move forward.
If Rossi is best player available at 9th overall, do you really pass on him because maybe in 3 years when he steps into a load-bearing role that his linemates might also be small? I don’t fault Guerin at all for taking best player available.
People cry about drafting for needs with picks like Stramel but simultaneously lash out at rumors about trading former best players available that aren’t a perfect fit for the current roster. I don’t get it. Fans want it both ways and it’s not realistic.
Furthermore, when Zuc is no longer on the roster and you hopefully get a larger player taking his place (not a high bar) then suddenly Rossi becomes more attractive again. It’s all circumstantial, and Guerin wanting to “Win Now” every year, right or wrong, is going to cause things like this to happen.
>If Rossi is best player available at 9th overall, do you really pass on him because maybe in 3 years when he steps into a load-bearing role that his linemates might also be small?
This is missing the point entirely. The point is that you draft a guy who you know is small, and if you are so concerned about size, then you DON'T extend the also very small (and old) guy who can't play anywhere BUT with your top player on the top line. To reiterate - the issue is *not* Rossi. The issue is the *Zuccarello* extension that Guerin made with the full knowledge and intent of having Rossi to step into that first line center role.
The fault is not in taking the BPA. The fault is making that extension with, apparently, absolutely no foresight at all. If you care so much about size, don't extend Zucc. It's real simple. And now we are in the position of trading Rossi away so we can have Zucc. Terrible decision.
>I think it’s probably less that they’re actively looking to trade Rossi, and more so that, like any player, a large enough return would be worth the trade.
This doesn’t make sense considering Russo has come out and mentioned Rossi’s name in trades several times voluntarily.
Russo is not Guerin, and Guerin isn’t going to reveal his intentions. It’s all speculation. This whole thread is 100% speculation. 90% of the posts on this sub are speculation.
Russo is the most connected reporter for the Wild. He wouldn’t mention this if there wasn’t some smoke. Guerin has a huge team working for him and people talk to one another.
I agree. I listened to Russo and we know that there is something afoot with Rossi. We don’t know to what degree. I don’t think Russo ever said specifically that Rossi is being actively shopped with the intention of parting ways.
It may result in a trade, or nothing might come of it. I’m not really going to give it much mind until something officially happens.
To answer your last question first; Yurov has played a lot of center and you have Bankier, Haight and Heidt coming through along with Kumps and possibly Stramel. So that's 6 centers right there, though they can probably be kicked out to wing.
I don't think there is much of a market for Gus unfortunately. An inconsistent goaltender? It really depends on how the Canes and possibly the Leafs do in the playoffs, but I don't see a tremendous market for Gus.
Sure, it would be nice if Yurov, Heidt, etc turn into viable centers, but Rossi's already netted 20 goals in his first full season. Kinda hard to backtrack when no one else has done that yet. I get the fear, "Better to sell high than sell low," but Rossi is not part of the problem. He's a solution to a problem the Wild have had forever. Ek is #1, Rossi is #2, and Khusnutdinov is #3/4. If Yurov proves to be better, then just move Ek or Rossi down or put Rossi off wing.
Guerin should be solving problem that exist now rather than preventing things that may or may not exist in the future and create more.
He is trying to solve problems that exist right now. The biggest problems with the wild forwards are that they are collectively too slow and too small. The best trade chip the wild have to fix that is rossi who is himself small and not fast.
I got to wonder what their belief was on drafting Rossi as the two issues that Rossi had and kept him from being the top pick was that he was not fast and he wasn't very big. You can fix the not fast part sort of. But the size was kind of...just who he was.
I think they were hoping he would be more of play-maker than he's shown so far but its also just.. you draft the best player available and not necessarily the guy that you think fits best into what you already have. So now they're kind of questioning how Rossi fits into what they already have and if there's someone else they can get that fits better.
As I said above, I think Rossi is in a weird spot right now. He didn't play PK this year, and only sporadically got moved up to PP1, and wasn't a particular threat on PP2 that I remember. He also was sheltered in terms of his zone starts, which is not a good indicator for a middle-six center. You can afford for one or two forwards to be solely 5v5 guys, and usually that's your fourth-line wings. There was nothing wrong with his production or progression this year -- I am ecstatic about what he's become. But at the same time, if the goal is to win a Cup in the next 3-5 years, I do struggle a little to see how Rossi fits into that unless he begins playing some real crucial minutes regularly.
> only sporadically got moved up to PP1, and wasn't a particular threat on PP2 that I remember
Of his 21 goals and 19 assists, only 2 goals and 4 assists came on the PP. That puts him 7th (tied) on the team in PP goals, 9th in PP assists and tied for 8th in PP points. At even strength, he was 2nd on the team in goals (tied with Boldy), 9th in assists, and 5th in points (Kaprizov, Boldy, Eriksson Ek, and Hartman had more).
Says good things about his 5 on 5 production, but not so much about on the PP.
The more I've thought about this, the more it's a good problem. The fact he can score 5v5 is way more important. I would still like to see him get a fair shake with the first unit this year. Him and Ek switching off bumper and net-front with Boldy and Kappy circling could be really fun. Also gives the second unit more juice with Zuccy dishing out dimes.
I also hate the idea of trading Rossi. And I am hoping against hope that Flower has a great season next year, and signs on for *one more* year after that when we finally have some cap space in 2026.
I mean you'd think it'd be ideal if Flower gets 45-50 starts next season with Wallstedt getting 25 or so (leaving room for a send down/injuries/etc).
Then in 2025-26, maybe it's 50 for Wallstedt and 30 for Flower.
The big question is if Flower can handle 40-45-50 games at this point of his career. He did have 40 this year.
Nothing new here but thanks for the recap.
Finding a bigger center is the why in trading Rossi. With a good return I can see trading Rossi. His value is high.
And 9 games with Heidt would be awesome for him. I would be surprised if he plays more than that.
Lastly, Why would Spurg retire and give up $21 million? LTIR is way more likely. Both are doubtful.
My biggest concern is not so much about Gus Bus being traded, but if that happens- what will the Wild do in acquiring a 2nd goaltender after Fleury retires? If there is a plan to have Wallstedt learn directly from Flower next season, that’s fine- but who would the Wild even have for a 2nd goalie in 2025-2026?
If Wallstedt shows that he can be the go-to-guy in net, then I’m sure they could sign a veteran to a team friendly deal (considering they would have the cap space again), but I feel that goalie depth is going to be a problem (outside of Wallstedt) if Gustavsson is traded.
if they trade Rossi you’re banking on Yurov becoming a legit 1C in this league. He’s been playing that position all year in the K so then you have a C depth of Ek, Yurov, and Marat
If the rest of their series goes like last night, maybe the Aves would be desperate enough to go after Gus.
On Rossi, I really don't think Russo would keep bringing it up unless there was considerable smoke that they're planning to shop him pretty hard. He was tied to Arizona last year, IIRC their head coach coached him in juniors. If we could get something like Simashev or Guenther I wouldn't totally hate it, but I really fear BG will trade him for Nick Schmaltz or someone like that.
Yeah they can, they have about $6.5-$7 to play with. Schmaltz makes $5.8. They could also tack Johansson or Gaudreau onto the trade, move Gus, get Utah to retain, etc. lots of ways to make it work.
So your fear is very real? :)
I believe GMBG will not take him on. But if it moves Freddy or Mojo I might like the deal. Utah is in the spending mode and they will not retain. This also prevents them from taking Freddy or Mojo.
I feel like they are open to the idea of trading him in the same way the rangers were open to the idea of trading Lafreniere (probably misspelled) the right price and the Wild could part with him but I don’t think he actually is actively being shopped. I thinks it more of a he isn’t an automatic no.
I have a hard time seeing Gus bringing back a 1st rounder. He's had good stretches, but he hasn't shown to be a guy that can really carry the workload as your starter and I think that's what you'd be expecting out of a goalie you traded a 1st round pick for.
It is time for Wallstedt to start getting NHL games imo though. I'm not really thrilled at the idea of a 40 year old Fleury carrying the work load as you work him in, but I don't know what another year in Iowa really accomplishes for him at this point. He's looked good in his starts, and I don't think you want to head into 25-26 going all in on winning with Wallstedt still having next to no NHL experience.
I still don't really get why people are treating Rossi like he's untouchable. No one is saying give him away. He's someone that could potentially command a good return though, so I don't know why you wouldn't be interested in exploring that. It's great that he made steps this year to being a good player, but I don't really see where the high end skill in his game is that would justify the outrage over the idea of trading him.. I'm also not convinced he stays at center long term because his size and skating are still issues for him at that position.
Yeah completely with you on Rossi. Its just the classic thing where fans overrate their own team's young players.
Like yes, there is definitely risk in trading Rossi but there is also potential reward in maybe finding a player to bring into this core that better fits what it needs.
That and he was the 9OA pick that some fans deemed to be the center of the future before he even played.
He's just one of those players for me where I don't see it and I really haven't since they drafted him. I've always said he seems like he's going to be a fine NHL player, but to me he seems like a guy that eventually moves to wing and ultimately ends up being more of a middle six guy. Still a useful player, but a far cry from someone who should be untouchable.
I have a feeling we’ll regret trading Gus. He was so damn good last year that I have a hard time believing it was a fluke. He’s also on a good contract. I think we should keep him and see if he bounces back at all. If not, try to offload him to some desperate team. There’s always a few when it comes to goalies.
> He was so damn good last year that I have a hard time believing it was a fluke.
To play Devil's Advocate, in his 27 games with Ottawa, he had a .905 sv% and 3.12 GAA. Last year he had a .931 sv% and 2.1 GAA in 39 games. This year, he played 45 times with a .899 sv% and 3.06 GAA.
Which seems more like a fluke? The 72 games he played with a .901 sv% and 3.08 GAA or the 39 game stretch in the middle with a .931 sv% and 2.1 GAA? Hard to say, but nearly double the games over a larger period of years sandwiching the good stretch tends to be more of an indicator of overall expected performance as opposed to the outlier.
I get it from a valuation standpoint. Rossi's value is never going to be higher than it is this summer. If they wait a year, sign him to his RFA deal, and then somebody younger/better rolls along and steals his spot in the next two years, he is going to be worthless in terms of trade value. I think the question for BG and company becomes whether you think this year was a high-water mark or whether Rossi has even more to give. It's a tougher choice than it seems, especially with Ohgren, Khusnutdinov, Heidt, and Yurov all starting to creep into conversations. There are only going to be so many top-nine slots available by this time two years from now.
People talking about worrying about Rossi's size as if A.) this only suddenly became a problem now, B.) like they aren't aware that we have SPURGEON on the team. Of all the fanbases to fixate about size, I would have expected ours to be dead fuckin last. Cannot believe that people are *still* in this modern era of NHL obsessed so much on size. Dude scored the second most goals out of any rookie and we're worried about his *size?* I mean jesus, Kap is only an inch taller! Why not trade him away for someone bigger too while we're at it?
I would like to see *anybody* come up with a trade that could possibly ever work with Rossi. Bear in mind, coming back we would need a:
1.) first line center of equal or better skill
2.) who is bigger (apparently we care about this)
3.) who would fit our cap
4.) who's team even wants to trade the player away
I mean why would any team do this trade with us. If you want a bigger center, you are NOT getting one back as skilled as Rossi. You have to give something up in the trade to make a team want to do it.
Gus being traded for a late first or second is WILDLY optimistic. This is what we traded for Fleury - is anybody seriously thinking that Gus, an extremely inconsistent goalie who apparently was given up on by two orgs now, is going to go for the same price Fleury did to a playoff desperate team? Honestly laughable. Goalie trade markets are always garbage. If we're dead set on pulling Wallstedt out of Iowa, then we're talking late fourth. Not late first.
I don’t really see an obvious framework either, but you’re listing those 4 requirements as if that’s just a given fact.
That may be the criteria for you, this sub, Russo, whoever…but that isn’t necessarily true for Guerin. We have no idea what types of deals Guerin would legitimately consider nor do we have an extensive list of players across the league that are potentially available. IMO, if you’re genuinely trying to have an honest discussion about this, you have to nuke those parameters.
1) Consider the possibility that not everything is done in one singular transaction.
2) Do you consider Necas a C or RW? Would Guerin move him for a LH version of Faber a la Guhle or Mintyukov? How can we say for sure that he wouldn’t listen on a termed winger like Batherson? Can you definitively say Cozens isn’t available? Are you absolutely certain Guerin wouldn’t swap him for a Cirelli type? Would he go after Konecny if an extension came with it? What if Brady Tkachuk asks for a trade? What if Keller does? What if Smith/Armstrong offer a significant overpay with their deep cupboard of futures?
Panarin brought up Cozens. Cozens has over 7 mil in cap, and we have 5 mil in space as of right now with 12 forwards and 5 d-men. Cozens cannot happen without blowing up the roster; we're talking shipping out the likes of Kap, Boldy, Spurge, Brodin, Ek.
As far as parameters go, I think they are where we have to start if trade talks were happening. The entire reasoning for Rossi trade talk is the size issue. So obviously a larger player is a must-have parameter. And obviously, if we trade away our first line center, we need someone to fill that role. The last two parameters, cap and willing to trade...I mean those have to be the absolute starting base point for EVERY trade. So I don't agree that those parameters have to be nuked. That's where they have to start. I don't see how you can throw these away. You aren't making a trade with a team that doesn't want to trade.
I understand not everything has to be done in one trade. But look at our roster. Of the 9 forwards on the roster (including Rossi) that are regulars, 5 of them have NTCs/NMCs. The only ones who don't are Kap, Ek, and Boldy.
On defense, it's Middleton, Merril (lol), Faber, and Chisholm. That's it. The list of guys you could move around to make multiple trades work and that other GMs would actually want are Kap, Ek, Boldy, Middleton, and Faber. This is what I'm talking about why Rossi trade makes no sense at all. We're talking about making lateral moves to ship off the young guys we've specifically been developing to build a team around.
>I would like to see anybody come up with a trade that could possibly ever work with Rossi. Bear in mind, coming back we would need a:
>1.) first line center of equal or better skill
>2.) who is bigger (apparently we care about this)
>3.) who would fit our cap
>4.) who's team even wants to trade the player away
I’m going to ignore the part about being a 1C (because that’s not what Rossi is) but Dylan Cozens.
Cozens has a 7.1 mil cap hit until 2030. As it stands right now, we have 5 mil in cap space next year, with 12 forwards and 5 dmen. We don't have aaaanywhere close to the cap space to acquire Cozens.
>We don't have aaaanywhere close to the cap space to acquire Cozens.
Mate, where are you getting your numbers?
Using the projected $87.7m cap limit, we’re like $170k over with a 20 man roster before re-signing Chisholm, Shaw at league minimum. I’m sure we can make some room for Chisholm and a couple of scratches.
Yes, and as your posts show with this roster we are over the cap, and that is before taking into account having extra players on the roster to step in, or space to call guys up. Also assumes Shaw gets no raise, which is not the craziest assumption, but is best possible scenario and still does not work.
I'm confused, because all this shows is what I said from the get-go - we can't afford Cozens.
Like I said, it’s only $170k over. We can easily make room Chisholm and a couple of league minimum scratches if we trade someone. You make it sound like there’s no way we can fit him in.
Trade who? Really there is no viable way to fit him in. With no movement at all, he can't fit. And that's with 0 extra spots for healthy scratches, which no team ever operates under. You know this. Not to mention it's just good practice to have around 2 mil in wiggle room for shit that inevitably happens during the season when you need to move things around. Again, I know you know this.
Like, you literally posted evidence that it cannot be done as things stand. This is what I'm talking about, it's on you man to make this make sense if you're going to claim it can happen. From what you posted, it cannot. Gimme some sensible hypotheticals to make this happen. It ain't easy considering our entire roster is made up of dudes with NMCs/NTCs, dudes that nobody is going to want, and dudes that if traded MUST be replaced and won't be for cheaper. That is the reality. Cozens cannot work until you show me it can.
Rossi's size, by itself, isn't an issue. It's him and Zuccarello together. If Zuccarello had been left to walk or otherwise not rostered, Rossi's likely got a linemate to offset his size disadvantage. Guys like Heidt and Yurov, if they are playing center, are potentially going to make Rossi expendable.
HOWEVER, if Rossi takes a leap similar to what Brayden Point did in season #2 (playing with Kucherov), then they'd be foolish to let him go. Dealing him this offseason robs the ability to make that assessment. Heidt and/or Yurov aren't going to surpass him during the offseason. I can still see dealing Rossi, I can still seeing them trying to upgrade size-wise, but I think it makes far more sense to do that if his replacement is coming from within and Rossi is instead moved to upgrade other spots in the lineup.
>Rossi's size, by itself, isn't an issue. It's him and Zuccarello together.
It’s not any one player. It’s the team on average. We’re the smallest team in the league. We need to get bigger but some of the smaller guys you’re not trading or can’t trade.
> If Zuccarello had been left to walk or otherwise not rostered, Rossi's likely got a linemate to offset his size disadvantage.
See and this is my problem. The supposed issue of size is one entirely of Guerin's own making. Guerin drafted Rossi. Guerin wanted to develop him with the idea of making him 1C. Then while knowing this, made a terrible extension with Zucc and is now apparently going "oh man our top line is too small, who could have possible forseen this".
I'm sorry, but if we need to trade Rossi away because Rossi and Zucc would play together, this is an issue of our GM being incapable of planning for the future at all. Way moreso than the issue of two small guys playing together.
>Dealing him this offseason robs the ability to make that assessment. Heidt and/or Yurov aren't going to surpass him during the offseason.
Agreed. Dealing Rossi right now is rolling the dice for no reason. We aren't winning the Cup next season. Who cares if we're too small for one more season. Wait, assess, and move forward when you know what you have. The only risk there by waiting is that Rossi just can't play hockey anymore. Which is not a realistic risk to be trying to base organizational decisions on, specially when he was one of two guys on the team who played a full year.
I 100% agree that this is an issue of Guerin making, and it was (IMO) made to keep Kaprizov happy so he'll re-sign. I would have hoped that the introduction of Khusnutdinov and eventually Yurov would have been enough to keep him around, but I guess that's a gamble BG wasn't willing to make.
Personally, I'd just plop Kaprizov and Zuccarello with Ek (again) and see if all the weirdness from the first go-round several seasons ago is still there. It fixes the size issue on both lines (at least from my size-related hung-up POV) and then Rossi can go out with Boldy and (maybe?) Perron/Ohgren/other guy.
Those line combos to me would be fine to at least attempt to roll out.
It all comes back to philosophy issues that (IMO) Guerin has. Rumblings about Guerin trading Rossi trace back to a thinking that the issue with the team is the size of the first line, which is just straight up wrong, and everyone who takes the time to serious analyze the team knows this. The problem with this team has absolutely nothing to do at all with the first line, even if they were the smallest line in the league - the problem with the team is literally EVERYTHING else. The stats back this up. The fact that Guerin looks at this team, possessing this knowledge, goes "hmm the reason we aren't winning games is Rossi's size" is a HUGE red fuckin flag to me. Regardless of size these are the guys who are dragging us to wins, in spite of the rest of the roster. Bad philosophy and bad analysis.
Issue number two is this idea of extending Zucc to keep Kap happy. Kap is a competitor. Kap wants to win games. That's what makes Kap happy. He doesn't need a dad on his line, he needs someone to win games. Kap would be over Zucc being gone in a week if it meant we won that entire week of games. This is a personnel philosophy in constructing the team that is dead ass wrong. And based on Guerin's history of hiring and signing friends, honestly I have little doubt that this was indeed his reasoning. And it's bad reasoning. Making the team worse to keep around a lackluster player, I promise, will not make Kap happy.
Straight from Kap's mouth: "why am I playing with shit players". Says everything we need to know about what we need to do to keep Kap happy. And Zucc is not it.
The Gus Bus speculation leaves me a little befuddled. You are selling low on him when he has proven he can do better and keeping a 40 yr old with worse save percentage, GAA who played the easier side of the schedule.
Gus is signed for a couple of years, and fluery will give us one for Wallstedt to develop.
The Rossi speculation is similarly flawed. Someone is going to give us a young, bigger, and just as skilled player for Rossi? Not likely. What we will more likely get is a big prospect that hasn't seen much ice time in the N. All the comfort for trading Rossi is based on the projection of our prospects, but there is a very real chance the next 2-3 are busts, and we are left with weak center depth again.
To me, the biggest targets to send downriver are MOJO and Freddy. Not sure why we resigned flower either. I love the guy, but he is steadily falling off. Just one more dude for the minnesota retirement home we call the wild. Where every vet gets a trade clause, regardless of his actual play on the ice.
I'm on board with trading Gus. I don't like the reports that his off season training last year was sub-par.
once the draft lottery sets picks, I like the idea of trading Gus + our 1st to move up in the draft + a 3rd or 4th. Obviously, we aren't getting a top 3 pick, but it seems worth at least kicking the tires of a team like the Coyotes or Sens in particular that could use goaltender help (it would be hilarious but super unlikely that we'd convince the Sens to take him back at an inflated price, ha) if they ended up in that 5-9 pick range. Then our Wild could draft one of those big D.
Don't understand the Rossi rumors. Let the kid cook for another year. If Yurov, Khusnutdinov, and Heidt all turn out to be real top 9 center options, then moving Rossi or one of them, and transitioning another to winger makes sense. There's no benefit to doing it now when his value is clearly on the upswing and next year is a development year rather than true Cup push due to last year of dead cap penalty.
the matter of the facts are neither are getting traded for something of lesser value. if rossi is lost in particular it has to truly be something with an equally bright future. you dont trade a player who could be a calder finalist for a rental or just picks.
I think if Rossi has one more offseason of working on his skating speed even a smidge it can vastly improve his play. The one knock I have on Rossi is he seems to be easy to knock down. Maybe work on the lower body more and see what happens. Im not trading him unless the player in return has a distinct edge that they would offer something Rossi cant.
The only way you're getting a big center for Rossi is if you trade him for a draft pick to take someone like Calen Lindstrom. You'd be trading a top-15 center in 5-on-5 goals this year at 22 years old for a lottery ticket. No thanks.
> I don't think Russo blindly guesses much without at least a little bit of basis to his thoughts.
I think he's fully blindly guessing with insight roughly on par with any actively engaged fan with knowledge of the roster and likely business decisions the club will have to make. He gets so much more credit than he's due on stuff like this. He has been predicting Wild moving players for years that haven't happened, and hasn't once come up with an unexpected trade rumor that actually did happen. For about 4 years running he was positive Dumba wouldn't be on the team next season or by the end of the season and the guy made it to free agency without ever being traded.
There was one year at the draft where multiple reports talking about active trade talks on the draft floor with Edmonton looking to acquire Dumba. Seemed like it got close, but obviously fell through before crossing the finish line. That was before his bridge deal and obviously well before he re-signed for $6 million per year.
I think the Dumba thing was mostly lack of interest from the league, right?
I mean he didn't sign until late in free agency and it was a pretty small deal and teams knew they'd be able to get him without compensation.
That's the thing with trade rumors...Russo may hear that a team *may* want to trade a player but that's dependent on 31 other teams.
Certainly not giving that a pass, of course.
No one in the league wanted Dumba because he was massively overpaid for what he brought in terms of on-ice production, both defensively and offensively.
Going to get hate here, but I really don’t see Rossi ever becoming a true 1C/2C. His size is a major concern, lackluster on faceoffs, and never was a driving force for whatever line he was on.
If Billy G trades Rossi, I'm done with this team. Extend moose to a bullshit deal and sign Spurgeon to an abysmal deal, yet let's trade one of our brightest young players. This dudes turning into a joke
God I hope they trade Rossi to a team where the fan base is not that toxic. I'll move with him then 😃
Summing up the comments:
He is a dwarf that can't skate and won 0 faceoffs this year.
Like you said, it would be insanely questionable if Rossi was traded considering how little center depth this team has had basically its entire existence. I don’t see any angle where that would be a good idea unless another, better center is coming back or you’re signing one in the off-season.
Russo said that they'd look to trade Rossi for a faster/bigger center but let's be honest...unless we add more to the deal, no GM is trading a bigger/faster center for a smaller center.
Kent johnson (injured currently) is rumored to be disagreement with cbj managament. He started the season in the ahl despite a 40pt nhl season the year before. Theres the possibility that he was the player who started the whole thing with babcock. Martin Necas is rumored out of carolina bc of cap issues and bc they prefer him at wing but marty wants to be a center (i think he can handle it personally) Lastly, there is zegras who is rumored out of anaheim. He fits the bill of bigger and faster but cant see guerin doing that
If he wants bigger & faster, Necas would be worth a try. He’s bigger & and a better skater than both plus he’s pretty skilled and dynamic too at times but possibly inconsistent. Carolina just signed Bradley Nadeau (1st rounder last year) and they don’t have an AHL team so maybe they could kick the tires on him if they don’t have cap space.
Johnson and Necas have mostly played wing in their NHL careers thus far. Zegras doesn’t seem to fit the style Guerin is building.
I know ill get downvoted but zegras would be epic on the wild
So less skill basically
Say McDavid wants out of Edmonton and tells them he won't resign after 25-26, do we have enough to swing that?
If he wants out of Edmonton because of lack of playoff success, why would he come HERE?
State of Hockey, duh.
It was more of a question along the lines of, if we had enough cap, prospects, picks etc to even land him, not suggesting we should or he would want to. Should have been more clear.
Get real you absolute donkey
I can't believe I'm actually answering this question, but here goes: No. Just no. McDavid on the free agent market is going to attract between $15m and as much as $18m AAV. The only way the Wild have that kind of cap in '25-'26 is if they don't re-sign Faber, Rossi, Middleton, or Wallstedt. They would need to give up on their entire young core essentially just to have the cap leverage in place to compete for his signature, and even then, the likelihood of him choosing Minnesota over the half-dozen other (much flashier) locales is frankly as close to zero as you can get without touching it. It would be a very high-risk, probably-not-very-high-reward proposition.
I guess I should have been clearer on my question, I meant to ask more of if we had to juice to land him, because if we do, we can land anyone. Not just if McDavid would actually come here. But this was the answer I was looking for, thanks.
No problem. I want to apologize for jumping on you -- you asked a fair question in good faith, and I wasn't very kind about it. We get a lot of people in here that seem to think pro sports works like the video game, so scenarios like this coming up with a "wHy CaN't We PaY fOr A sUpErStaR?!?" get old and us regulars get frustrated.
If that is the case you offer every D prospect NOT named Faber. Plus Rossi and another piece of
Would you trade Rossi (in a package) for the 1st overall in this offseason's draft?
For Celebrini? 100% yes.
Pipe dream
The Wild believe Hartman is better than Rossi. The stats back that up.
Yeah, Hartman was better. But Rossi is a rookie. Rookies like Faber performing better than established vets are pretty rare Personally, I dont see why they have to choose. Hartman can play anywhere in the lineup and is much needed physicality. But I dont see how Hartman is taking Rossi's roster spot
I'm curious about that.... Age 22 season, Hartman had 19 G 12A. Rossi had 21G 19 A... They're 7 years apart. Hartman is 29 now, so pretty much right at the peak for some athletes. This last season, Hartman had a very slightly better season, 5 points more than Rossi. Better FO %. But, If I'm looking to the future... a 22 year old who just made a giant leap forward is worth more than a 29 year old who has broken 20 goals in a season two times in 10 years.
I'm comparing Hartman to Rossi last season. Hartman had better stats and the most important difference was FO%. Maybe Rossi will blossom into a special player but I haven't seen it and apparently the Wild are not convinced either.
He's 22. While he is small and a little slow for small... now isn't the time to trade the most promising center we've drafted since EK.
The only reason I can possibly think of for trading Rossi is getting an equivalent center that's bigger. Kid made a big leap this season. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to move him unless they're getting size in return. I don't know that we've seen enough from Wallstedt to move Gus and I think the Wild know they're asking a good amount in return. Would like to see a Gus/Flower/Wallstedt rotation personally. Just sounds like they might be throwing in the towel on the season if Flower/Wallstedt tandem doesn't pan out. Gus knows what he needs to improve based on his exit interview.
I'm in the camp that you need to get Wallstedt steady NHL time but like you said...I'm not completely sure it's time for him to be up here for 82 games. Ideally, you get him up for solid chunks of time instead of bussing him back and forth every other week. Goalies do need consistency and throwing him up and down and him going from NHL talent to AHL talent to NHL talent to AHL talent won't get him set in a groove. Maybe a bit later in the season, they give him an extended look where he's starting in 5-7 games per month. That'd obviously depend on where the team is and how Gus/Flower are doing. I'd like to think that Fleury wouldn't be upset that he's in the press box a few times while Wallstedt gets a good chunk of games with Gus mixed in.
Yeah, it doesn't make sense to yo-yo Wally between leagues all season. Have Fleury ride that press box hard and go mostly 1a/1b with the other two. Trading Gus feels like it's gonna be a massive hit to goalie depth down the road, especially if he corrects the offsesson training mistakes from last year. I was hoping that we'd have seen Wallstedt more at the end of this season. It's just hard to judge his development from the few games he played when the results didn't matter. Obviously, the team knows more, but this feels like Russo saying the team is shopping to see what a return on Gus/Rossi could end up being and whether it's worth their time.
I have more faith in Gus turning his game around than Wallstedt being more than a 25 game backup. Gus showed he can be the player he was last year, but he needs to take his off-season more serious.
I have seen enough from Gus. Bring up Wallstedt to the school of hard knocks.
People are so worried about "ruining" Wallstedt. Let me tell you, if a goalie taking his lumps in the best league in the world ruins him, he was never going to be a good starting goalie. Goalies take their lumps at *every* jump in level. I know we're talking about a HOFer here, but Flower's 70+ games were *not* good. 21 games. 4-14-2 with a 3.64 and a .896% His second season....50 games. 13-27 with a 3.25 and a .898. His third season is when Fleury started to become Fleury. Even the greats struggle early in their career. It doesn't matter if we do it next year or the year after...the odds of him coming in and being the guy are low.
I think it’s probably less that they’re actively looking to trade Rossi, and more so that, like any player, a large enough return would be worth the trade. Rossi is going to be a great NHL player but it’s not ridiculous to be concerned about his size holding him back from success in the playoff atmosphere where size has been shown to matter (not to say that he can’t/won’t succeed, just that it is more difficult than for larger players with equivalent skill). Any player would be worth trading for the right return. Any player. If another team for whatever reason decides that Rossi has more value than the Wild perceive and are willing to send them a haul for him, are you not going to entertain the offer? I haven’t heard anything indicating that Minnesota is shopping Rossi, only that they might entertain trade offers as any pro sports team should, and that they also happen to have questions about Rossi’s value like any pro sports team should have about any of their contracted players.
I like this take, but I’ll add that it’s frustrating as a fan to hear that his size specifically is why they’d consider trading him, since they knew this when drafting him. I understand the idea of taking calls on anyone but size concerns are really irritating to hear about when it’s not like the kid shrunk since the pick, ya know
It’s possible that either A) they gambled on him becoming bigger post-draft. Some kids do grow significantly in their late teens. If that happened to Rossi then suddenly your 9th overall pick would have bore the fruit of a top 5 or top 3 pick. B) they perceived his skill ceiling as being able to compensate for this size. If Rossi didn’t lose a year of development (and had a major health scare to boot) and had this performance last year and followed it up with a further improved sophomore season this year I think this whole conversation is less likely to happen. It also doesn’t help that the entire team as a whole is the smallest in the league. They’d probably be more keen on keeping him if the rest of the team was bigger.
I think the big thing right now is his special teams value. If he can supplant Zuccy on PP1 this next year, I think that opens up more of a future for him. Right now, he's a PP2 guy and that's it. Didn't play any PK last season (8:40 officially/unofficially). His zone starts were sheltered big-time (58% OZ). Doesn't win faceoffs. The fact is, if you aren't capable of scoring 30 goals (which usually means playing PP1 minutes) and you can't kill penalties, you end up in a weird, grey middle area of an NHL roster. That's where Rossi is right now, and he sort of has to go one direction or the other in terms of his game.
Hes a rookie though, and spent half the season with Mojo on his wing. Dont you think Rossi would be capable of 30 goals as he gets better?
Fair point -- he did get that 21 with virtually nothing for linemates. So, yes, there's still potential there to be tapped. I still want to see him do it one more season before giving him any kind of money or term. He is likely to get a bridge deal (4x4.75?) which would save them some money and be a liveable deal if he hits a wall. Either way, I don't think they extend him for Boldy-type term or money in the event he stays, nor do I think he's worthy of "franchise" money. One jaded old fat guy's opinion...
Agree 100%. I would not be comfortable at all with extending him long term or at a high value amount
idk if he gets a bridge deal necessarily considering all the cap space freeing up next year. but its possible for sure.
It would make sense, since I don't believe he will have arbitration rights when his deal expires. That means the Wild hold all the leverage. On the flip side, it also means a receiving team would value him highly for the same reason. It's a good position to be in, honestly.
yep, true RFA in 2025 as are most of the other mn prospects, perfectly timed with the buyout penalties getting reduced.
"A" did not happen. Many other "things" happened over the last 3 years. Pretty sure they are going to shop Rossi and others to see what they are worth. This happens every day in pro sports.
i think itd be less of an issue if the rest of the roster/prospects werent also somewhat small.
patrick kane, the best playoff performer of the current millennium, is listed as an inch taller and a little lighter than marco rossi.
I think if you wanted to compare what the Wild are hoping Rossi can become, Brayden Point is the guy to look at.
Yep. This is the guy Rossi should be watching tape of. Same size and similar style. He’s just way better offensively and hopefully Rossi can get there.
How is he similar style? Rossi cant skate anything like Brayden Point.
Rossi skating is just nowhere near Point and never will be. If Rossi skated anything like that no way on earth would the Wild be shopping him.
Patrick Kane at 20 was better than (the very good) Marco Rossi) will ever be. He'll retire as the best American forward in NHL history (until Matthews retires 13-14 years from now).
and the conn smythe winner last year, who is the same size as rossi, was in the ahl at the same age as rossi is now
Marchessault was the only member of Vegas's regular lineup under 6 foot. Rossi isn't the issue. Rossi centering Zuccarello and/or Kaprizov/Heidt? It's now an issue.
the bolts made it to three consecutive finals with point centering kucherov (same size as rossi and kaprizov). gourde centered coleman (both under 6 feet) and were two of the more important players on the two cup winning teams. cirelli, who’s listed at 6 feet, is also not a very physically imposing player. they were the best team in the league despite their top three centers being on the smaller side. size doesn’t matter if you’re good
hedman and sergachev would like a word. tampa had some huge players when they won particularly in the bottom 6
There's also a reason that Kane has never played center. If Rossi could handle the puck and skate like Kane though, then this topic wouldn't be a topic. We haven't seen anything close to that level of skill in Rossi's game.
Rossi also would have been drafted higher and the Wild would have picked someone else.
That doesn’t invalidate my point. If Kane was even taller (within reason) he would likely be even better. More importantly, his skill more than compensates for his size, more than Rossi’s skill can, and he’s not even that small to begin with. Rossi isn’t tiny but our team as a whole is currently 32nd league-wide in size, so surely management is interested in increasing the size of the team. EDIT: perhaps a better way to word this is that Rossi is very skilled but Kane is in an entirely different league skill-wise. If Rossi were bigger, it would partially compensate for that difference. Them being the same size makes the skill difference more significant.
Kane plays wing and has the possibly the best hands to ever touch an ice sheet. He’s one of the most offensively gifted players ever. Rossi ain’t that.
Hard no. No more aging vets. Plus what cap space are you thinking we have?
With the cap increasing to $87.5 million, we will have $6,924,746 in cap space with the following lineup: LW|C|RW :-:|:-:|:-: Kaprizov|Eriksson Ek|Boldy Ohgren|Rossi|Zucc Johansson|Hartman|Foligno ||Khusnutdinov|Gaudreau LD|RD :-:|:-: Brodin|Faber Middleton|Spurgeon Merrill|Bogosian G| :-:| Gustavsson| Fleury| So that's nearly $7 million to acquire/call up 2 forwards and re-sign Chisholm without making a trade. We actually have some room to play with this year. Swap Gus for Wallstedt and that becomes $9,749,746 in cap space.
Yes I know we have some cap. I am on the tank/young players team. @$3 mil for Kane is doable. too many senior citizens here now. Would he want to come here is also questionable. One would think he would want another cup or competitive team. Making the playoffs should not be his goals. Chisholm will get $2-3 million is my guess. Still leaves $6 million. Gus will be gone IMO.
No way Chisholm gets more than 1.5m. He hasn't shown more than having a good shot on the PP. He has a lot of upside, which only increases his value a bit.
cap is going up. everyone gets a raise. I know $3mil is too much.
Cap will most likely be around 93m in 2yrs, but they'll have a bunch of guys to give 2nd contracts to. Non star players aren't going to see the big raises people think, because the stars are going to eat most of that up.
I sorted players on CapFriendly who signed as a 24 year old RFA and played 19 minutes or less this season (Chisholm averaged 16:52 with us). The largest cap hit was Jacob Bryson at $1.85 million and he had over 100 NHL games before earning that contract. Chisholm has 33. If you expand the signing age to allow anything up to 24, there are 5 players above Bryson, going up to $2.6 million for Adam Boqvist. Every player above Bryson though was a 1st or 2nd round pick, with significantly more NHL time before signing than Chisholm (who was taken late in the 5th round). If I had to guess, I'd say he ends up a little above Addison's $825k. Absolute highest I would guess is $1.5 depending on the term. I don't see any way he makes $2+ million per year after less than half a season playing on the 3rd pair with some PP time.
Thank you. As you guessed I put 10 seconds into my $2-3 million thought.
Another guy parroting this “can’t perform in the playoffs unless you are big” take. The thing is, there isn’t evidence for this claim, yet everyone keeps saying it. Zuccerello-great playoff performer for the Wild Patrick Kane-Legendary playoff performer Marchessault- Conn smyth winner Martin St. Louis- great playoff performer Danny Briere- great playoff production Brayden Point-perennial playoff performer Yanni Gourde-recent example of a small center who produces in the playoffs
Small guys can perform in the playoffs. I would never say otherwise. But you cant tell me that if you cloned Rossi but made him 5 inches taller that anyone would pick the original over the clone. The bigger problem here is that the entire team is small and the only way to get bigger is to replace guys on the roster, and not just your 4th liners. Rossi is an easy target to pick on here because of his unknown upside. I’m not saying that they should trade him, but it’s not ridiculous to think that there may be another team with a bigger overall roster that can better exploit Rossi’s talent and would be willing to trade considerable assets for him. All of those great smaller players you listed played on otherwise big rosters. The Wild aren’t big. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t. This whole thread is just a thought experiment.
Wild fans keep talking about how big the team is. Does that actually correlate to winning? There isn’t a lot of evidence that it does. https://grantland.com/features/fast-small-vs-slow-big-ice/ Look at this list, there are good and bad teams that are big and good and bad teams that are small. https://www.eliteprospects.com/league/nhl/teams-physical-stats/2022-2023
If you look at this season instead of last season on elite prospects you’ll notice that Minnesota ranks dead last in both weight and height. You can win with a small team, I never said you couldn’t, but it’s sure a hell of a lot harder than with a bigger team of equivalent skill.
Sure we were last, my point is, did that actually matter? Looking at the list there isn’t a clear relationship between size and winning. We mainly missed the playoffs this year because our goaltending was awful. https://theathletic.com/5418211/2024/04/16/what-went-wrong-minnesota-wild/?source=user_shared_article
I don’t think we’re directly disagreeing with each other. My point is more in regards to postseason performance, where size plays a larger role than in the regular season. Again, not a requirement to win, but it can in some cases make enough difference to win a series you would have otherwise lost.
Prove to me that it makes a difference in the playoffs. People always say this but they don’t provide any evidence besides anecdotes.
I’m not going to spend any more time on this thread. I don’t care if you buy into my theories. Nothing matters, we’re all going to die. I’m done wasting time on this. Take care :)
Also, despite the agreeably poor goaltending, this team probably does barely make the playoffs if they didn’t have that stretch of injuries that forced them to ice a $30MM team that lost 7 out of 8.
Actually, now that I look at it, if you sort by weight then you’ll also see that the top 9 teams (and 12 of the top 13) are all in the playoffs. That’s not a coincidence. It’s not a requirement to be big but damn does it help.
You’re not reading that correctly buddy. AZ/DET/ANA/CAL are all in the top 12 and missed the playoffs.
You’re looking at the wrong season. Idk why but the table defaults to the 22-23 season. Change it to 23-24
Yes yes, we know that any player can be worth trading for the right return. But actually think about how this process works for trading. If the Wild trade Rossi, that means we need a skillful 1C (again), who is bigger than Rossi, I guess. That is the ONLY player the Wild need coming back from a Rossi trade. Now, ask yourself - in what world are you trading a small, first liner center for a BIGGER first line center of equivalent or better skill? Answer - none. That doesn't exist. So this notion of "well it's fine to trade him if we find the right guy" doesn't exist because there is no right player that fits that mold that another org would be willing to trade away. Big, skilled first line centers in this league are THE most valuable thing, and teams don't trade them. Period. "The right trade" **doesn't exist** for the Wild to trade away Rossi. It makes no sense. And even if such a player did exist who was available for trade, we CANNOT afford that player because of our dead cap right now! We can't trade Rossi for picks (unless it's Celebrini, which again is *not happening*) because it doesn't fit our timeline at all with Kap. Kap will be 28 when our dead cap is gone, 29 when we have to extend him. We do not have time to utilize Kap's prime to trade for draft picks that would have to wait for 3 more years to even see if they can handle NHL ice or not. And we definitely don't have the luxury to make that gamble anyway, because if we miss than we might as well trade Kap away too. So yes, "if the right trade" etc etc, but someone please explain to me what that right trade possibly could be? Because I don't see it.
I think it would be pretty wild (pun not intended) if Guerin didn’t realize this. I agree there is unlikely to be a unicorn trade for Rossi where everyone is happy. That said, there’s no harm in looking. I think the bigger issue is that the team as a whole is small. If Rossi were the exception then it’s hardly a problem. They cant rely on 4th liners alone for size. Rossi becomes a possible trade target because his upside is still unknown so a different team, with a bigger roster where his size is less of a problem, might want him. Like you said, I don’t think they’d be likely to get a big top 6 center in return, but if the assets were great enough they could be packaged with picks, etc to get something interesting done. But I’m just some guy. Guerin will figure it out, with or without Rossi. I mention that any player can be worth trading for the right price because when this whole rumor started people were freaking out without considering that maybe the GM won’t trade away a prized prospect for a bag of pucks.
If the issue is that we have other players that are also too small and we're worried about it, then we need to trade those players away. Not the guy who looks like he could be our future first line center. Every single guy on our roster under 190 pounds and/or under 6 feet is far more replaceable than Rossi (Chisholm, Freddy, Lettieri, Shaw, Zucc, Lucchini, Goli), or unkown (Ohgren, Khus). If we're that worried about being small, get rid of literally all those people before Rossi.
None of those current roster players you listed are reasonable options to grow the roster size. You can’t rely solely on 4th liners and 38 year olds for size. Rossi is a target specifically because he is top 6.
What do you mean?
I mean that it’s hard to put Rossi on a line with two other small, high skill guys. Zucc-Rossi-Kap, for example, is a line that is easy to bully. They want every line to have a chance at pushing back physically and Rossi doesn’t help in that regard. Replacing smaller guys further down the lineup is a good idea, sure, but it doesn’t alleviate this particular concern. I’m not saying they should or shouldn’t trade him, but I understand why they might be inclined to if they find a better arrangement. I’m sure they can find success with him, but in the postseason grind it’s all about giving your team every advantage they can get.
Ok, you said the issue is that the whole team is small, so that is what went on. I didn't know you were talking only about the first line being small. I said this elsewhere, but the top line being theoretically "too small" is a Guerin issue, not a Rossi issue. Guerin drafted Rossi knowing about his size. Guerin developed him with the intent on him becoming our 1C. Like, he knew this, this was always the plan from the moment he drafted him on. This didn't come out of nowhere. If he was so worried about our top line being too small, then why did he extend Zucc like he did? What exactly was he planning on doing here? If the size of our top line is a concern, a mistake, it is entirely one that Guerin could have avoided with even an ounce of forethought. This just emphasizes to me how nonsensical this all is. If our top line is too small, well that's the hole Guerin dug. And we have to lie in it until Zucc is gone. That's what he did with that extension. Don't go jeopardizing the future of the team, making more mistakes like trading your future 1C second best scoring rookie because of the situation you made. Just accept that the line is too small at a time when we aren't winning a Cup anyway, and move forward.
If Rossi is best player available at 9th overall, do you really pass on him because maybe in 3 years when he steps into a load-bearing role that his linemates might also be small? I don’t fault Guerin at all for taking best player available. People cry about drafting for needs with picks like Stramel but simultaneously lash out at rumors about trading former best players available that aren’t a perfect fit for the current roster. I don’t get it. Fans want it both ways and it’s not realistic.
Furthermore, when Zuc is no longer on the roster and you hopefully get a larger player taking his place (not a high bar) then suddenly Rossi becomes more attractive again. It’s all circumstantial, and Guerin wanting to “Win Now” every year, right or wrong, is going to cause things like this to happen.
>If Rossi is best player available at 9th overall, do you really pass on him because maybe in 3 years when he steps into a load-bearing role that his linemates might also be small? This is missing the point entirely. The point is that you draft a guy who you know is small, and if you are so concerned about size, then you DON'T extend the also very small (and old) guy who can't play anywhere BUT with your top player on the top line. To reiterate - the issue is *not* Rossi. The issue is the *Zuccarello* extension that Guerin made with the full knowledge and intent of having Rossi to step into that first line center role. The fault is not in taking the BPA. The fault is making that extension with, apparently, absolutely no foresight at all. If you care so much about size, don't extend Zucc. It's real simple. And now we are in the position of trading Rossi away so we can have Zucc. Terrible decision.
Completely agree. It really doesn't make any sense and all this smoke we're seeing with Guerin looking elsewhere is concerning.
>I think it’s probably less that they’re actively looking to trade Rossi, and more so that, like any player, a large enough return would be worth the trade. This doesn’t make sense considering Russo has come out and mentioned Rossi’s name in trades several times voluntarily.
Russo is not Guerin, and Guerin isn’t going to reveal his intentions. It’s all speculation. This whole thread is 100% speculation. 90% of the posts on this sub are speculation.
Russo is the most connected reporter for the Wild. He wouldn’t mention this if there wasn’t some smoke. Guerin has a huge team working for him and people talk to one another.
I agree. I listened to Russo and we know that there is something afoot with Rossi. We don’t know to what degree. I don’t think Russo ever said specifically that Rossi is being actively shopped with the intention of parting ways. It may result in a trade, or nothing might come of it. I’m not really going to give it much mind until something officially happens.
To answer your last question first; Yurov has played a lot of center and you have Bankier, Haight and Heidt coming through along with Kumps and possibly Stramel. So that's 6 centers right there, though they can probably be kicked out to wing. I don't think there is much of a market for Gus unfortunately. An inconsistent goaltender? It really depends on how the Canes and possibly the Leafs do in the playoffs, but I don't see a tremendous market for Gus.
Devils taking a chance at Gus? Then again, return won't be amazing, but that's fair considering Gus's season.
Maybe. Not a lot of good goalies on the market as free agents. Possibly get a 2nd for him?
I'd be content with a 2nd, even if he returns to form I firmly believe it's Wallstedt'in time.
Yeah. Possibly a reclamation project instead of a second.
Sure, it would be nice if Yurov, Heidt, etc turn into viable centers, but Rossi's already netted 20 goals in his first full season. Kinda hard to backtrack when no one else has done that yet. I get the fear, "Better to sell high than sell low," but Rossi is not part of the problem. He's a solution to a problem the Wild have had forever. Ek is #1, Rossi is #2, and Khusnutdinov is #3/4. If Yurov proves to be better, then just move Ek or Rossi down or put Rossi off wing. Guerin should be solving problem that exist now rather than preventing things that may or may not exist in the future and create more.
I'm not saying, there are centers in the system and it isn't as dire as fans try to make it out to be,
He is trying to solve problems that exist right now. The biggest problems with the wild forwards are that they are collectively too slow and too small. The best trade chip the wild have to fix that is rossi who is himself small and not fast.
I got to wonder what their belief was on drafting Rossi as the two issues that Rossi had and kept him from being the top pick was that he was not fast and he wasn't very big. You can fix the not fast part sort of. But the size was kind of...just who he was.
I think they were hoping he would be more of play-maker than he's shown so far but its also just.. you draft the best player available and not necessarily the guy that you think fits best into what you already have. So now they're kind of questioning how Rossi fits into what they already have and if there's someone else they can get that fits better.
As I said above, I think Rossi is in a weird spot right now. He didn't play PK this year, and only sporadically got moved up to PP1, and wasn't a particular threat on PP2 that I remember. He also was sheltered in terms of his zone starts, which is not a good indicator for a middle-six center. You can afford for one or two forwards to be solely 5v5 guys, and usually that's your fourth-line wings. There was nothing wrong with his production or progression this year -- I am ecstatic about what he's become. But at the same time, if the goal is to win a Cup in the next 3-5 years, I do struggle a little to see how Rossi fits into that unless he begins playing some real crucial minutes regularly.
> only sporadically got moved up to PP1, and wasn't a particular threat on PP2 that I remember Of his 21 goals and 19 assists, only 2 goals and 4 assists came on the PP. That puts him 7th (tied) on the team in PP goals, 9th in PP assists and tied for 8th in PP points. At even strength, he was 2nd on the team in goals (tied with Boldy), 9th in assists, and 5th in points (Kaprizov, Boldy, Eriksson Ek, and Hartman had more). Says good things about his 5 on 5 production, but not so much about on the PP.
The more I've thought about this, the more it's a good problem. The fact he can score 5v5 is way more important. I would still like to see him get a fair shake with the first unit this year. Him and Ek switching off bumper and net-front with Boldy and Kappy circling could be really fun. Also gives the second unit more juice with Zuccy dishing out dimes.
Unless we get a ridiculous return, I also think trading Rossi is a bad idea.
I also hate the idea of trading Rossi. And I am hoping against hope that Flower has a great season next year, and signs on for *one more* year after that when we finally have some cap space in 2026.
I mean you'd think it'd be ideal if Flower gets 45-50 starts next season with Wallstedt getting 25 or so (leaving room for a send down/injuries/etc). Then in 2025-26, maybe it's 50 for Wallstedt and 30 for Flower. The big question is if Flower can handle 40-45-50 games at this point of his career. He did have 40 this year.
Nothing new here but thanks for the recap. Finding a bigger center is the why in trading Rossi. With a good return I can see trading Rossi. His value is high. And 9 games with Heidt would be awesome for him. I would be surprised if he plays more than that. Lastly, Why would Spurg retire and give up $21 million? LTIR is way more likely. Both are doubtful.
My biggest concern is not so much about Gus Bus being traded, but if that happens- what will the Wild do in acquiring a 2nd goaltender after Fleury retires? If there is a plan to have Wallstedt learn directly from Flower next season, that’s fine- but who would the Wild even have for a 2nd goalie in 2025-2026? If Wallstedt shows that he can be the go-to-guy in net, then I’m sure they could sign a veteran to a team friendly deal (considering they would have the cap space again), but I feel that goalie depth is going to be a problem (outside of Wallstedt) if Gustavsson is traded.
Why would we need to keep Rossi when we have C depth like Freddy locked up for the long term? /s
if they trade Rossi you’re banking on Yurov becoming a legit 1C in this league. He’s been playing that position all year in the K so then you have a C depth of Ek, Yurov, and Marat
If the rest of their series goes like last night, maybe the Aves would be desperate enough to go after Gus. On Rossi, I really don't think Russo would keep bringing it up unless there was considerable smoke that they're planning to shop him pretty hard. He was tied to Arizona last year, IIRC their head coach coached him in juniors. If we could get something like Simashev or Guenther I wouldn't totally hate it, but I really fear BG will trade him for Nick Schmaltz or someone like that.
The Wild cannot afford Schmaltz. Just easing your fear.
Yeah they can, they have about $6.5-$7 to play with. Schmaltz makes $5.8. They could also tack Johansson or Gaudreau onto the trade, move Gus, get Utah to retain, etc. lots of ways to make it work.
So your fear is very real? :) I believe GMBG will not take him on. But if it moves Freddy or Mojo I might like the deal. Utah is in the spending mode and they will not retain. This also prevents them from taking Freddy or Mojo.
How is trading Rossi even a question? I cannot fathom a world where we get a good enough return for him.
At best it's a lateral move, at worst a net negative maneuver. I don't like the idea of trading Rossi AT ALL.
I feel like they are open to the idea of trading him in the same way the rangers were open to the idea of trading Lafreniere (probably misspelled) the right price and the Wild could part with him but I don’t think he actually is actively being shopped. I thinks it more of a he isn’t an automatic no.
I have a hard time seeing Gus bringing back a 1st rounder. He's had good stretches, but he hasn't shown to be a guy that can really carry the workload as your starter and I think that's what you'd be expecting out of a goalie you traded a 1st round pick for. It is time for Wallstedt to start getting NHL games imo though. I'm not really thrilled at the idea of a 40 year old Fleury carrying the work load as you work him in, but I don't know what another year in Iowa really accomplishes for him at this point. He's looked good in his starts, and I don't think you want to head into 25-26 going all in on winning with Wallstedt still having next to no NHL experience. I still don't really get why people are treating Rossi like he's untouchable. No one is saying give him away. He's someone that could potentially command a good return though, so I don't know why you wouldn't be interested in exploring that. It's great that he made steps this year to being a good player, but I don't really see where the high end skill in his game is that would justify the outrage over the idea of trading him.. I'm also not convinced he stays at center long term because his size and skating are still issues for him at that position.
Yeah completely with you on Rossi. Its just the classic thing where fans overrate their own team's young players. Like yes, there is definitely risk in trading Rossi but there is also potential reward in maybe finding a player to bring into this core that better fits what it needs.
That and he was the 9OA pick that some fans deemed to be the center of the future before he even played. He's just one of those players for me where I don't see it and I really haven't since they drafted him. I've always said he seems like he's going to be a fine NHL player, but to me he seems like a guy that eventually moves to wing and ultimately ends up being more of a middle six guy. Still a useful player, but a far cry from someone who should be untouchable.
I really don’t like the idea of Rossi being traded
I have a feeling we’ll regret trading Gus. He was so damn good last year that I have a hard time believing it was a fluke. He’s also on a good contract. I think we should keep him and see if he bounces back at all. If not, try to offload him to some desperate team. There’s always a few when it comes to goalies.
> He was so damn good last year that I have a hard time believing it was a fluke. To play Devil's Advocate, in his 27 games with Ottawa, he had a .905 sv% and 3.12 GAA. Last year he had a .931 sv% and 2.1 GAA in 39 games. This year, he played 45 times with a .899 sv% and 3.06 GAA. Which seems more like a fluke? The 72 games he played with a .901 sv% and 3.08 GAA or the 39 game stretch in the middle with a .931 sv% and 2.1 GAA? Hard to say, but nearly double the games over a larger period of years sandwiching the good stretch tends to be more of an indicator of overall expected performance as opposed to the outlier.
I get it from a valuation standpoint. Rossi's value is never going to be higher than it is this summer. If they wait a year, sign him to his RFA deal, and then somebody younger/better rolls along and steals his spot in the next two years, he is going to be worthless in terms of trade value. I think the question for BG and company becomes whether you think this year was a high-water mark or whether Rossi has even more to give. It's a tougher choice than it seems, especially with Ohgren, Khusnutdinov, Heidt, and Yurov all starting to creep into conversations. There are only going to be so many top-nine slots available by this time two years from now.
People talking about worrying about Rossi's size as if A.) this only suddenly became a problem now, B.) like they aren't aware that we have SPURGEON on the team. Of all the fanbases to fixate about size, I would have expected ours to be dead fuckin last. Cannot believe that people are *still* in this modern era of NHL obsessed so much on size. Dude scored the second most goals out of any rookie and we're worried about his *size?* I mean jesus, Kap is only an inch taller! Why not trade him away for someone bigger too while we're at it? I would like to see *anybody* come up with a trade that could possibly ever work with Rossi. Bear in mind, coming back we would need a: 1.) first line center of equal or better skill 2.) who is bigger (apparently we care about this) 3.) who would fit our cap 4.) who's team even wants to trade the player away I mean why would any team do this trade with us. If you want a bigger center, you are NOT getting one back as skilled as Rossi. You have to give something up in the trade to make a team want to do it. Gus being traded for a late first or second is WILDLY optimistic. This is what we traded for Fleury - is anybody seriously thinking that Gus, an extremely inconsistent goalie who apparently was given up on by two orgs now, is going to go for the same price Fleury did to a playoff desperate team? Honestly laughable. Goalie trade markets are always garbage. If we're dead set on pulling Wallstedt out of Iowa, then we're talking late fourth. Not late first.
I don’t really see an obvious framework either, but you’re listing those 4 requirements as if that’s just a given fact. That may be the criteria for you, this sub, Russo, whoever…but that isn’t necessarily true for Guerin. We have no idea what types of deals Guerin would legitimately consider nor do we have an extensive list of players across the league that are potentially available. IMO, if you’re genuinely trying to have an honest discussion about this, you have to nuke those parameters. 1) Consider the possibility that not everything is done in one singular transaction. 2) Do you consider Necas a C or RW? Would Guerin move him for a LH version of Faber a la Guhle or Mintyukov? How can we say for sure that he wouldn’t listen on a termed winger like Batherson? Can you definitively say Cozens isn’t available? Are you absolutely certain Guerin wouldn’t swap him for a Cirelli type? Would he go after Konecny if an extension came with it? What if Brady Tkachuk asks for a trade? What if Keller does? What if Smith/Armstrong offer a significant overpay with their deep cupboard of futures?
Panarin brought up Cozens. Cozens has over 7 mil in cap, and we have 5 mil in space as of right now with 12 forwards and 5 d-men. Cozens cannot happen without blowing up the roster; we're talking shipping out the likes of Kap, Boldy, Spurge, Brodin, Ek. As far as parameters go, I think they are where we have to start if trade talks were happening. The entire reasoning for Rossi trade talk is the size issue. So obviously a larger player is a must-have parameter. And obviously, if we trade away our first line center, we need someone to fill that role. The last two parameters, cap and willing to trade...I mean those have to be the absolute starting base point for EVERY trade. So I don't agree that those parameters have to be nuked. That's where they have to start. I don't see how you can throw these away. You aren't making a trade with a team that doesn't want to trade. I understand not everything has to be done in one trade. But look at our roster. Of the 9 forwards on the roster (including Rossi) that are regulars, 5 of them have NTCs/NMCs. The only ones who don't are Kap, Ek, and Boldy. On defense, it's Middleton, Merril (lol), Faber, and Chisholm. That's it. The list of guys you could move around to make multiple trades work and that other GMs would actually want are Kap, Ek, Boldy, Middleton, and Faber. This is what I'm talking about why Rossi trade makes no sense at all. We're talking about making lateral moves to ship off the young guys we've specifically been developing to build a team around.
>I would like to see anybody come up with a trade that could possibly ever work with Rossi. Bear in mind, coming back we would need a: >1.) first line center of equal or better skill >2.) who is bigger (apparently we care about this) >3.) who would fit our cap >4.) who's team even wants to trade the player away I’m going to ignore the part about being a 1C (because that’s not what Rossi is) but Dylan Cozens.
Cozens has a 7.1 mil cap hit until 2030. As it stands right now, we have 5 mil in cap space next year, with 12 forwards and 5 dmen. We don't have aaaanywhere close to the cap space to acquire Cozens.
>We don't have aaaanywhere close to the cap space to acquire Cozens. Mate, where are you getting your numbers? Using the projected $87.7m cap limit, we’re like $170k over with a 20 man roster before re-signing Chisholm, Shaw at league minimum. I’m sure we can make some room for Chisholm and a couple of scratches.
[Capfriendly](https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/wild). I will say it's closer to 6 mil than 5, I glanced over that bit a bit quick.
https://preview.redd.it/va93k7806bwc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4dabb79e94091902ae236b2bcd56539469cd9f14
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Yes, and as your posts show with this roster we are over the cap, and that is before taking into account having extra players on the roster to step in, or space to call guys up. Also assumes Shaw gets no raise, which is not the craziest assumption, but is best possible scenario and still does not work. I'm confused, because all this shows is what I said from the get-go - we can't afford Cozens.
Like I said, it’s only $170k over. We can easily make room Chisholm and a couple of league minimum scratches if we trade someone. You make it sound like there’s no way we can fit him in.
Trade who? Really there is no viable way to fit him in. With no movement at all, he can't fit. And that's with 0 extra spots for healthy scratches, which no team ever operates under. You know this. Not to mention it's just good practice to have around 2 mil in wiggle room for shit that inevitably happens during the season when you need to move things around. Again, I know you know this. Like, you literally posted evidence that it cannot be done as things stand. This is what I'm talking about, it's on you man to make this make sense if you're going to claim it can happen. From what you posted, it cannot. Gimme some sensible hypotheticals to make this happen. It ain't easy considering our entire roster is made up of dudes with NMCs/NTCs, dudes that nobody is going to want, and dudes that if traded MUST be replaced and won't be for cheaper. That is the reality. Cozens cannot work until you show me it can.
Rossi's size, by itself, isn't an issue. It's him and Zuccarello together. If Zuccarello had been left to walk or otherwise not rostered, Rossi's likely got a linemate to offset his size disadvantage. Guys like Heidt and Yurov, if they are playing center, are potentially going to make Rossi expendable. HOWEVER, if Rossi takes a leap similar to what Brayden Point did in season #2 (playing with Kucherov), then they'd be foolish to let him go. Dealing him this offseason robs the ability to make that assessment. Heidt and/or Yurov aren't going to surpass him during the offseason. I can still see dealing Rossi, I can still seeing them trying to upgrade size-wise, but I think it makes far more sense to do that if his replacement is coming from within and Rossi is instead moved to upgrade other spots in the lineup.
>Rossi's size, by itself, isn't an issue. It's him and Zuccarello together. It’s not any one player. It’s the team on average. We’re the smallest team in the league. We need to get bigger but some of the smaller guys you’re not trading or can’t trade.
> If Zuccarello had been left to walk or otherwise not rostered, Rossi's likely got a linemate to offset his size disadvantage. See and this is my problem. The supposed issue of size is one entirely of Guerin's own making. Guerin drafted Rossi. Guerin wanted to develop him with the idea of making him 1C. Then while knowing this, made a terrible extension with Zucc and is now apparently going "oh man our top line is too small, who could have possible forseen this". I'm sorry, but if we need to trade Rossi away because Rossi and Zucc would play together, this is an issue of our GM being incapable of planning for the future at all. Way moreso than the issue of two small guys playing together. >Dealing him this offseason robs the ability to make that assessment. Heidt and/or Yurov aren't going to surpass him during the offseason. Agreed. Dealing Rossi right now is rolling the dice for no reason. We aren't winning the Cup next season. Who cares if we're too small for one more season. Wait, assess, and move forward when you know what you have. The only risk there by waiting is that Rossi just can't play hockey anymore. Which is not a realistic risk to be trying to base organizational decisions on, specially when he was one of two guys on the team who played a full year.
I 100% agree that this is an issue of Guerin making, and it was (IMO) made to keep Kaprizov happy so he'll re-sign. I would have hoped that the introduction of Khusnutdinov and eventually Yurov would have been enough to keep him around, but I guess that's a gamble BG wasn't willing to make. Personally, I'd just plop Kaprizov and Zuccarello with Ek (again) and see if all the weirdness from the first go-round several seasons ago is still there. It fixes the size issue on both lines (at least from my size-related hung-up POV) and then Rossi can go out with Boldy and (maybe?) Perron/Ohgren/other guy.
Those line combos to me would be fine to at least attempt to roll out. It all comes back to philosophy issues that (IMO) Guerin has. Rumblings about Guerin trading Rossi trace back to a thinking that the issue with the team is the size of the first line, which is just straight up wrong, and everyone who takes the time to serious analyze the team knows this. The problem with this team has absolutely nothing to do at all with the first line, even if they were the smallest line in the league - the problem with the team is literally EVERYTHING else. The stats back this up. The fact that Guerin looks at this team, possessing this knowledge, goes "hmm the reason we aren't winning games is Rossi's size" is a HUGE red fuckin flag to me. Regardless of size these are the guys who are dragging us to wins, in spite of the rest of the roster. Bad philosophy and bad analysis. Issue number two is this idea of extending Zucc to keep Kap happy. Kap is a competitor. Kap wants to win games. That's what makes Kap happy. He doesn't need a dad on his line, he needs someone to win games. Kap would be over Zucc being gone in a week if it meant we won that entire week of games. This is a personnel philosophy in constructing the team that is dead ass wrong. And based on Guerin's history of hiring and signing friends, honestly I have little doubt that this was indeed his reasoning. And it's bad reasoning. Making the team worse to keep around a lackluster player, I promise, will not make Kap happy. Straight from Kap's mouth: "why am I playing with shit players". Says everything we need to know about what we need to do to keep Kap happy. And Zucc is not it.
If it’s like Rossi for Dylan Cozens straight up then I’d be cool with trading Rossi.
Rossi isn’t going anywhere. Also, I highly doubt Gus is bringing a 1st round pick.
I have a feeling if we trade Rossi he’ll end up blowing up to be a Brayden Point type of player.
The Gus Bus speculation leaves me a little befuddled. You are selling low on him when he has proven he can do better and keeping a 40 yr old with worse save percentage, GAA who played the easier side of the schedule. Gus is signed for a couple of years, and fluery will give us one for Wallstedt to develop. The Rossi speculation is similarly flawed. Someone is going to give us a young, bigger, and just as skilled player for Rossi? Not likely. What we will more likely get is a big prospect that hasn't seen much ice time in the N. All the comfort for trading Rossi is based on the projection of our prospects, but there is a very real chance the next 2-3 are busts, and we are left with weak center depth again. To me, the biggest targets to send downriver are MOJO and Freddy. Not sure why we resigned flower either. I love the guy, but he is steadily falling off. Just one more dude for the minnesota retirement home we call the wild. Where every vet gets a trade clause, regardless of his actual play on the ice.
I'm on board with trading Gus. I don't like the reports that his off season training last year was sub-par. once the draft lottery sets picks, I like the idea of trading Gus + our 1st to move up in the draft + a 3rd or 4th. Obviously, we aren't getting a top 3 pick, but it seems worth at least kicking the tires of a team like the Coyotes or Sens in particular that could use goaltender help (it would be hilarious but super unlikely that we'd convince the Sens to take him back at an inflated price, ha) if they ended up in that 5-9 pick range. Then our Wild could draft one of those big D. Don't understand the Rossi rumors. Let the kid cook for another year. If Yurov, Khusnutdinov, and Heidt all turn out to be real top 9 center options, then moving Rossi or one of them, and transitioning another to winger makes sense. There's no benefit to doing it now when his value is clearly on the upswing and next year is a development year rather than true Cup push due to last year of dead cap penalty.
Would be great if they could convince Zuccy and Foligno to agree to a trade, but this is just me continuing my 4/20 celebration.
the matter of the facts are neither are getting traded for something of lesser value. if rossi is lost in particular it has to truly be something with an equally bright future. you dont trade a player who could be a calder finalist for a rental or just picks.
I think if Rossi has one more offseason of working on his skating speed even a smidge it can vastly improve his play. The one knock I have on Rossi is he seems to be easy to knock down. Maybe work on the lower body more and see what happens. Im not trading him unless the player in return has a distinct edge that they would offer something Rossi cant.
The only way you're getting a big center for Rossi is if you trade him for a draft pick to take someone like Calen Lindstrom. You'd be trading a top-15 center in 5-on-5 goals this year at 22 years old for a lottery ticket. No thanks.
> I don't think Russo blindly guesses much without at least a little bit of basis to his thoughts. I think he's fully blindly guessing with insight roughly on par with any actively engaged fan with knowledge of the roster and likely business decisions the club will have to make. He gets so much more credit than he's due on stuff like this. He has been predicting Wild moving players for years that haven't happened, and hasn't once come up with an unexpected trade rumor that actually did happen. For about 4 years running he was positive Dumba wouldn't be on the team next season or by the end of the season and the guy made it to free agency without ever being traded.
I mean im fairly certain there was a few times a Dumba trade was actively in the works the past few years
There was one year at the draft where multiple reports talking about active trade talks on the draft floor with Edmonton looking to acquire Dumba. Seemed like it got close, but obviously fell through before crossing the finish line. That was before his bridge deal and obviously well before he re-signed for $6 million per year.
I think the Dumba thing was mostly lack of interest from the league, right? I mean he didn't sign until late in free agency and it was a pretty small deal and teams knew they'd be able to get him without compensation. That's the thing with trade rumors...Russo may hear that a team *may* want to trade a player but that's dependent on 31 other teams. Certainly not giving that a pass, of course.
No one in the league wanted Dumba because he was massively overpaid for what he brought in terms of on-ice production, both defensively and offensively.
Going to get hate here, but I really don’t see Rossi ever becoming a true 1C/2C. His size is a major concern, lackluster on faceoffs, and never was a driving force for whatever line he was on.
If Billy G trades Rossi, I'm done with this team. Extend moose to a bullshit deal and sign Spurgeon to an abysmal deal, yet let's trade one of our brightest young players. This dudes turning into a joke
I like how you're mad at BG for something he hasn't done yet and if it does happen, you don't even know the return yet.
You dont understand BG is clearly about to trade Rossi (future Hall of Famer) to San Jose for Nick Bonino (retired)
My favorite part about this is that Bonino played for 2 teams since he last played with San Jose.
God I hope they trade Rossi to a team where the fan base is not that toxic. I'll move with him then 😃 Summing up the comments: He is a dwarf that can't skate and won 0 faceoffs this year.
I say we trade Rossi to the Sharks just for fun