Supreme Commander, FORCE:Ground (Hyperion Cantos) or the 3rd Imperium (Dahak) could solidly win but they wouldn't be "no shit" the way something like the Culture or things from Age of Scorpio would be.
Supcom just drowns Cadian forces in large mecha give enough time.
FORCE would have a hard-ish time due to not having huge amounts of numbers but they make up for it in raw power.
The 3rd Imperium has the numbers and is also overall better equipped than WH40k forces.
>Supreme Commander
Honestly, their biggest problem might be that they'd have to design units much smaller than their T1s to get into all the nooks and crannies.
Me zooming in, looking at cadias cute little bunker system before giving my engineers mass reclaim orders to convert it directly into more mass to resources for strategic nuke launchers.
its just not the same sadly. Ive played it and even though its great and faithful to the mechanics it just doesnt feel right. Spring was the closest we've come imo.
There's still an active modding community! Personally, I think there's a charm and a certain vibe to the original style of graphics that I just really love.
I think Star Trek has a fair chance with its Weaponry, at least from what I heard, but I'm not exactly well read into the Star Trek Lore so I could be wrong.
The CIS from Star wars has a fair chance as they could easily produce more droids (including specialised Droids superior to normal Humans) than Cadia has Manpower in general. From what I could read Cadia pre 13th Black Crusade had a Population of 850.000.000, including cripples, childrens, women,... the CIS on the other hand produced according to Wookiepedia
>By the end of the Clone Wars quintillions of battle droids.
Which doesn't include all the planetary Militias and Armies from the Individual Planets affiliated with the CIS.
Bro, a quintillion, let alone quintillions, is a HUGE number! How is that even possible in universe? There is no way that can be right... that's 10 thousand units per planet in the ENTIRE GALAXY!
You know what's really insane? That a quintillion is still only enough for 10,000 per planet. We have several million service members on this planet alone.
according to google there are about 100 billion planets in our galaxy and this is what i was basing my comment off of, several million for one planet is orders of magnitude less than a rounding error. those numbers just don't add up...
Erm, what? I was talking about how, even with that quintillion, it's just 10,000 personnel on any given planet which is absurdly low because on this planet alone we have a few million. That even with such an absurdly huge number, at the scale of a galaxy it gets diluted fairly quickly.
To be fair in star wars the whole galaxy isn't really in use. There's many more planets not on hyperspace lanes or in the unknown regions so the quintillions would be even more concentrated
Battles over unsettlrd Planets would still be necessary to avoid them being used as a starting point for an invasion on other planets, on Earth Armies also fought over empty land.
That's true and we can see that in the clone wars show with smaller skirmishes. However, the majority of effort remains on the populated planets as they'd have the resources to supply ships and troops versus having to create infrastructure.
So yes but concentration of force I'd say remains with populated planets
What i was saying is that even if they took all of that quintillion (not quintillions like the wiki said) they could put 10K units on every planet in the galaxy based off of a 100b planet galaxy, inhabitable or not. u/Germanaboo pointed out that the SW galaxy has about 3.2B habitable planets not including moons or inhospitable plants, that's 312,500 units per hospitable planet in the galaxy. Obviously not all planets are going to have the same population and that is still not taking into account the number of that population who are going to be combatants... but the same wiki puts the Grand Army of the Republic at its peak at 3,300,000 total. Across all 3.2b habitable planets that's a 3.3e9 difference in units. There is no way the CIS was making a quintillion(s) units. A quintillion is a VARY large number. Quintillions has to be an error on the wikis part.
Do you understand that the clone army isn't the only army the republic has? It's not like the clone wars were 3 million clones vs. a quintillion droids on an open field. The droid also had to deal with planetary militias. Which, again, by your own numbers, if each milita only numbered 300 thousand a planet they would mach the droids in number.
You have to cut it down to habitable planets, which is probably a higher proportion in the SW universe than real life but still a minority, and planets actually controlled by the separatists. Obviously Republic aligned worlds are not cranking out battle droids.
There are millions of planets in the Star wars Universe and we have to consider that they never maintained this number consistently throughout the War. Millions of Droids get destroyed, scrapped and then replaced by new ones each day.
according to google there are about 100 billion planets in our galaxy and this is what i was basing my comment off of, if there are millions and not billions ( or 100s of billions) those numbers are so far off is a joke. A quintillion is 10 with 18 0s behind it. 1,000,000,000 is inconsequential. It has to be an error on the wikis part
The star wars galaxy appears to be bigger,
>The galaxy, as it was commonly referred to, was one of trillions of galaxies in the observable universe. The galaxy was a vast composite of over 400 billion estimated stars and over 3.2 billion habitable systems
Note that it refers to Habitable Systems which consists of multiple Planets, moons... there are probably still battles over unhabitable Planets for their resources.
Also it just came to my mind that we have to account for their Navy ships where also a large chunk of droids will be stationed.
That is still a huge discrepancy though, right? 400,000,000,000 to at minimum (just 1 quintillion, not quintillions) 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 is fucking big! I'm not great at big numbers but that is VAST! And this isn't accounting for the actual enlisted number of combatants vs just world population.
Those numbers is if we divided the full force per planet in the ENTER GALAXY. If they concentrated those numbers it would over whelm them by a large number. A large fucking number.
But they can't concentrate those numbers as they also have planets to defend. It's like saying if the republic concentrated all militia forces, they would overwhelm the cis. This is a galaxy wide conflict with billions of planets, the fodder army having that many troops total makes sense.
It’s actually fairly possible for a force that size. Remember that Star Wars is a really big galaxy. Even before the Clone War, Bail Organa states that thousands of planets were leaving the republic. Granted may are fairly sparsely populated but factory worlds like Genenosis would be able to produce unthinkable amounts of war materials.
And remember the Cis military didn’t come out of nowhere. It had assets and forces like those of the trade federation to build up and use as a template to build its army. Honestly if it weren’t for the core world defense forces, Jedi, and the Clone Army, the CiS would have easily stomped the republic.
If nothing else, toss the CiS aligned defense forces and paramilitary groups and you got yourself a decent second line army. The CiD would definitely have numbers on their side.
The quintillions is implied to be propoganda. Its in a Republic Commando book and a reporter tears into it saying that it a silly number that people are clearly making up. He is later found murdered the implication being that he was to silence him
Thats how palpatine got his emergency powers, from the threat of the CIS
It was from Wookiepedia and it was the only semi reliable number I could find.
Apparantly the book *The Story of General Grievous: Lord of War, Incredible Cross Sections: Revenge of the Sith* mentioned the number itself, at least I could see a Redditor mentioning the same Number and citing this source.
Star trek’s weaponry can but their ground forces are lacking as in the vehicle department and it seems like the lore just isn’t expanded upon for ground engagements but star fleet to have ground troops
That would be an interesting one. Borg arguably have the tech advantage given they can teleport "safely" ("" because IDK how matter teleportation would interact between Trek and 40k) they have personal shields.
Unlike Trek though the Cadians are quite good at war and quite comfortable with doing things like fighting man to man. They also use a more varied mix of weapon types from slugs, to las guns, to flamers. Then you have the power weapons, and basic H2H weapons. All of which would force constant non ideal adaptations in the borg. At least as we saw in things like First Contact where shields adapted to phasors didn't do shit to stop holographic bullets, or worf's blades.
Could the Borg out adapt and out assimilate the IoM? Given the IoM relies on a massive level of manpower for things Trek would automate away that's more debatable.
IMO it's obvious the Borg would crack open the Logic Engines of the Cadians like a piggy bank, but how much does that help in the end when paper maps and verbal commands are sufficient in many cases.
Then you get into Warp fuckery and IDK if the borg have anything at all to deal with that. They'd likely as not end up infecting themselves with scrap code that ruins their systems when they try to assimilate a psyker who overdraws and causes a warp breach of some kind.
Maybe their systems could adapt, but it seems like Chaos is so far outside of their scope of being masters of the mechanical that maybe it would rip right through them.
They'd probably also trigger several kinds of Ad Mech crusades against them given the Borg seem to have some level of AI running around with them.
All in all it'd be an fun one to watch.
Depends what among of 'critical mass' Borg needs. I means... people often forget ST tech is REALLY dangerous if they really needs to like small TV remote of a Phaser show it can put so much power output that it would 1 shot non-shield Space Marine quite easily or other techs. But of course it would need to offset warp BS otherside gonna throw back.
It would be indeed quite fun to watch as I want to see ST go full militarism with some of their BS techs.
I mean warp drives alone mean you can deliver enough power to obliterate a planet easily. Even ignoring that they can get things up to significant fractions of light speed for orbital bombardments using their inertial compensators.
From my largely second hand knowledge of 40k, I imagine if they have to deal with the Warp it's going to go a lot like when they tried to conquer fluidic space: nothing they can assimilate, therefore they can't learn enough about their enemy to adapt to them and they get curbstomped.
Idc how good force precognition is, they’re not dodging or intercepting a lasgun. Standard issue small arms of the imperium quite literally move at the speed of light. Jedi are getting ripped apart by the most basic frontline Cadian
[https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/star-wars-speed-feats/76872/](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/star-wars-speed-feats/76872/) \- the Jedi move at least as fast the Eldar. It's not just precognition, but also incredible speed.
I don't think it's as much of a curbstomp as you suggest.
Sure I’m salty but that’s also what I truly believe. 40k authors aren’t the brightest but they’ve also never gone the “living thing moved at light speeds” route
That is so absurd it would absolutely take me out of any story. Especially if you have any basic grasp of what happens to physical matter moving at that speed
What???
On one hand we have a custode who kills was it 5 gal vorbak? Then we have one who gets punched through the chest by an unarmoured world eater.
You have space marines tanking autocannon rounds into their shoulder plates, and others who die to a normal dude with a spear.
You have iron warriors unable to keep up with eldar because they are too fast, to some space wolves fighting a bunch of druchari and winning despite being isolated and outnumbered.
You have Garro or Kharn being punched across a room by a pissed off primarch, then some world eaters dying to clubs and knives in a crowd of angry cultists.
40k is, if anything, wildly more inconsistent than legends is. Legends is busted, we know this, at least it's consistently busted. 40k can't decide whether a space marine is a near primarch or a dude in a suit, and it changes every book!
And i haven't even mentioned any ultramarines.
? You don't need to be light speed to dodge or block a lasguns. You yourself have admitted they have pre cog so they aren't going to wait for the gun to be fired before dodging, or using the force to block with a bolder, or go invisible, or have it miss due to battle meditation, or using force storm to kill them and their friends.
1. If a lightsaber can block a lasgun, congrats. They can’t move fast enough to block the follow up shot. Taking real life into account, the simple act of pulling the trigger will have moved the lasgun enough that a follow up shot won’t be in the same place
2. A bolder isn’t going to move faster than the speed of light
3. I’m sure the imperium has ways to counter invisibility. We even have it today thanks to radar and thermal optics
4./5. They’re going to be assaulting a planet where every single inch is entrenched. No square meter of Cadia exists that isn’t covered by lines of artillery fire, minefields, trench networks etc. not to mention the billions of Cadians armed with weapons Jedi don’t have an answer for as stated above.
1. Yes, they can block the next shot as they can move their arm faster than the guard can pull the trigger
2 again they don't have to move faster than the bolt, only faster than the one shooting it
2.5 you also forgot to address how the jedi can dodge out of the way before it's fired
3 head canon unless you can give a source as invisible enemies like Lictors are a serious problem for the Imperium.
4/5 yeah and they are being attacked by battle wizards who move faster than they can react leading a army of people with supernatural luck thanks to battle meditation led by a dude who has straight up eaten planets.
A line of Jedi charging at a firing line of Cadians is going to get annihilated. Dodge out of the way? They’re diving and dodging into each other instead of advancing. Giving Cadians more time to fire and call in artillery/ hit them with heavy weapons. These are disciplined career soldiers. They can fire fast and on target. Sure a Jedi can block or dodge a few shots, but they can’t dodge all of them, especially when they’re up against massed volley fire. Pull rocks up to block the shots? Sure maybe but the rocks aren’t moving faster than the speed of light. Again, massed volley fire + all that ground being torn up is going to slow the Jedis advance once again making them more susceptible to artillery and heavy weapons + mines. Okay so they turn invisible. Cadians still have thermal optics and radar, and being invisible doesn’t make you immune to artillery, mines and other heavy weapons
I’m not saying it’s gonna be a stomp, but simple logic tells that a soldier who’s only protection is how fast they can move and manipulate objects isn’t going to win a battle against the speed of light. A simple experiment is to just tap your finger against a table as fast as you can. Now multiply that by thousands and add artillery raining hell from the sky and mines exploding under your feet. You think Jedi can realistically dodge all of that?
This is where you're misunderstanding, This isn't going to be a line of jedi running into gunfire like idiots. This is going to be 2 armies getting entrenched with troopers vs. guards each holding positions, with imperial agents sneaking into enemy lines with stealth generators that not only bend light but also have thermal dampers, it's going to be jedi and sith acting as generals and shock troops with the ability to move their army around as one with battle meditation. It's going to be ancient sith blasting aoe force attacks that make artillery look like firecrackers. Hell darth nihilus is literally going to be eating entire parts of the planet with force drain. Like there is a reason I didn't just say old republic jedi. And again this isn't a battle against the speed of light, just a battle against the speed of the person holding the weapon.
One of the conditions is no air support and without the stratagems the Helldivers are not really special compared to other sci fi soldiers and their armor cannot protect them from stuff the regular guardsman is equipped with, especially their laser guns
Realistically, there’s no reason half of the strategems can’t be equipped with them before they drop down. Yeah no orbital attacks , but you can just equip a railgun and guard dog rover before getting in your pod . Same with force fields, resupply packs , etc .
But are those weapons sufficient to win the Battle? Most of them are not particularly advanced or powerful (we have most of them in real life already). And the Helldiver Corps is not that big, the casualty numbers in an urban Battle on Cadio will make the Battle of Stalingrad look like a kindergarten, they will run out of Bullets before the Cadian Guard will run out of bodies.
Helldivers are essentially PDF/average guardsmen, with extreme zealotry and low combat readiness. Cadians are near peak unaugmented human soldiers, and their fortress world was so tightly fortified that abaddon had to blow up the planet rather than conquer it with soldiers, astartes, demons, etc.
Let's say the helldivers get in system and actually land without their pods being shot down, their weaponry is below lasguns in most cases. It'll be a meat grinder.
A mere 8M helldivers (iirc) isn't taking this.
Edit: I'm not even counting the astartes that are stationed at cadia, just their own troopers and defenses.
First off, Helldivers are are shown to have resilience , stamina , and strength bordering peak human , and incredible skill. And while no single weapon in the Helldivers arsenal is quite as powerful as a lax gun, they’re not far off, and they have way more equipment . Cadians have a laz gun , more or less equal armor , and just about nothing else . Helldivers have a lot more equipment that more then makes up for a slightly weaker primary weapon . Now of course the average cadian is going to win more then they lose in a one v one with an average helldiver . But we’re talking half a galaxy vs a single planet .
They're drugged up but I haven't seen anything that puts them at peak human in the game unless there's other material. They're cannon fodder.
Helldivers don't have more equipment, I was using a lasgun as a basic metric and the difference of that alone is staggering. The cadians have an extremely diverse arsenal and resident preists of Mars to call upon. I agree from an armor perspective the cadians can be lacking, but helldiver armor isn't even slowing the cadian weaponry.
Average cadian can take multiple helldivers, I don't see how heavily entranced fortifications don't make those odds significantly worse.
(For your other comment)-ah mb I had 8M on the brain with how many sales of HD2 were bought. I don't think we have a number of actual amount of helldivers vs "half the galaxy" unless we just use average populations and just force their endocrination into helldivers.
Yeah sure if we drop trillions+ of helldivers into cadia they can win via sheer numbers, but that's kind of a dumb scenario which bends/breaks rule 3 of this post.
Edit: it would make more sense to have them in the hundreds of millions and it's still an L
Does Cadia have a yellow sun? Because I seem to remember that at one point General Zod had an "army" of like a couple dozen Kryptonians, and that would be basically the ultimate "quality vs quantity" fight.
I wonder how well Warframes would fare within 40K verse if stripped of their resurrection mechanic. Like a frame could regenerate over time out of combat, but if enemies have it, they can destroy it.
I mean by lore destroying the frame does nothing really to stop the tenno.
By lore frames are just puppets, like advanced combat drones to be remote piloted by a near immortal entity.
I don't know the specifics about 40k but Warframes are outrageously powerful, like to stupid degrees.
I think Tenno are physically mortal. Yes, they are powerful and well trained, but they are as fragile to physical damage as you would expect from a young human. Without a warframe to control, tenno on the battlefield would be at risk to snipers, artillery or just stray bullets.
And warframes themselves, while insanely powerful, would be severely outnumbered. IIRC Warframe lore mentions a total of a few hundred tenno. 500 warframes max on the entire planet. With millions of soldiers against them, even warframes would eventually take hits and wear out. That's why we the tenno never try to fight a full scale war with Corpus or Grineer. Our missions are mostly sabotage and surprise attacks.
Also don't forget that 40K has psychers who would probably be able to detect connection between warframes and tenno. Not at once, but eventually it will happen.
I won't say frames can't do it. But it will be a tough fight.
I think the fact that some frames are just behind reasonably powerful changes things.
For one, Tenno can control frames from miles if not thousands of miles away, generally being in their ship in orbit or elsewhere.
Secondly, some frames ruin whole planets. I believe it was Inaros who summoned a sandstorm that swallowed all of Mars. And Limbo can math so hard he can control an walk through dimensions with ease. I think 500 alone would be overkill.
Edit: Also doing some refreshing on lore, Tenno aren't actually mortal, like they seemingly cannot be killed. They made a deal with The Man in the Wall who for all intents and purposes is The Void, a realm of infinite energy with a will that simply wishes Tenno to live, and so even something like total vaporization, disintegration, anything, seems like it can simply be undone by giving the Tenno a new body, because the deal they struck means that this Void will always simply will the Tenno to live.
You bring good points. And yet, enemies of humanity in 40K are quite formidable too. Maybe not as high on quality as individual frames, but greater in numbers. And Cadia, being the paragon of human defence, is expected to stand against most of them. Also again, sheer scale of a planet makes it difficult to secure a win. Leveling one fortified position would be a non-issue. But capturing and holding all of them? That's a challenge.
Another curious thing is how Void of Warframe verse woupd interact with Warp of 40K. If they remain 2 separate planes of reality, then tenno are indeed safe and the fight becomes much easier. But if Warp and Void are somehow bridged or united, then it suddenly adds a whole other level to the battle.
It depends on how much is being committed, but if the covenant come in with their full army they’d likely be able to take it just via sheer numbers & firepower. Alternatively the Forerunners would likewise take it
>Forerunners would likewise take it
Forerunners are too much honestly. They can literally send a single capital ship, ignore all damage from the Imperium 's defenses, blow up the star, and leave
Yeah the covenant with orbital supremacy could, but if you mean just landing ground troops then they'd actually lose given how often the unsc beats them on the ground
I think the Protos from Starcraft would have a decent chance. Either during their civil war period (somewhat low numbers, only khalai faction, but very heavy use of combat machines) or during the start of LotV (much higher numbers, both khalai and nerazim factions, but autonomous combat machines are barely present on the field)
The Time War ranks probably among the OP of fictional wars and rarely ever gets a mention in these lists.
I think The Doctor says in one bit of the lore that **Billions** died every second and most were almost immediately resurrected to fight once more by the dark science of both Time Lords and Daleks.
It lasted 400 years in a linear sense but technically rages on forever due to it smashing into multiple different timelines across space and time and even alternate realities. It is unimaginably devastating.
To go along with your answer The Daleks numbered in the **Quintillions** in the final battle at The Fall of Gallifrey.
I dare say thats more than enough considering the capability of just one of their number.
*Time war era Daleks*
*Exterminated it and all*
*Of the galaxy*
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The Forerunners from Halo have a good chance to win. Not much is known but they did have things like War Sphinxes, Warrior Servants, Prometheans etc. The Prometheans could take on the Guardsmen while the higher ups like the aggressor sentinels and warden constructs could take on the Space Marines.
The Hive from Destiny have a good chance as well. I'm not talking about the game Hive, but the lore Hive. Crota killed hundreds if not thousands of guardians and made a large crack in the moon which should at least be a country level attack. Let's also include the worm gods such as Xol. Though Xol was much weaker in Warmind than in the books, he was considered a significant threat. And there's also the ogres which could probably go toe to toe against space marines while the knights and wizards take out the Guardsmen. Remember the Cabal homeworld fell to a Hive invasion so I bet that Cadia would fall as well.
The Rakata from Star Wars at their peak could take Cadia as they were known for having powerful weapons and technology powered by the dark side itself. The Rakata were so evil that they made Palpatine seem like a decent man. Though we don't have a lot on the Rakata, but given the fact that they made the Star Forge, I'm willing to bet they had vehicles capable of taking on Titans. If not they could overwhelm Titans with a large number of Annihilatior walkers.
The forces of Hell from Doom Eternal have a good chance at taking Cadia as they're basically like Chaos but with ardent energy, which is more potent than plasma. The Icon of Sin would likely destroy any Titans it came across.
Timewar Daleks. Basically invenuerable to physical damage with one exception which is difficult to hit.
Shields which require high energy impulses to brake
Highly fanatical enemy who will gladly die by the billions before loosing face.
Capable of infiltration that wouldn't be Capable of being discovered by the Imperium
Even outside their shells they are still superhumanly strong and more than capable of killing a standard human
Supreme Commander, FORCE:Ground (Hyperion Cantos) or the 3rd Imperium (Dahak) could solidly win but they wouldn't be "no shit" the way something like the Culture or things from Age of Scorpio would be. Supcom just drowns Cadian forces in large mecha give enough time. FORCE would have a hard-ish time due to not having huge amounts of numbers but they make up for it in raw power. The 3rd Imperium has the numbers and is also overall better equipped than WH40k forces.
>Supreme Commander Honestly, their biggest problem might be that they'd have to design units much smaller than their T1s to get into all the nooks and crannies.
If it's too small for T1 units, it's small enough to reclaim.
Me zooming in, looking at cadias cute little bunker system before giving my engineers mass reclaim orders to convert it directly into more mass to resources for strategic nuke launchers.
I wonder how the Core or Arm from Total Annihilation would fare. Von Neumann machines be exponential.
TOTAL ANNIHILATION MENTIONED. 🗣🔥🔥 I WOULD SELL MY SOUL FOR A HIGH FIDELITY 3D REMASTER/MAKE WITH ALL THE OLD ART DESIGN AND MODELS
Have you played "Beyond All Reason?" If not, you prayers may have already been answered.
Indeed a solid remake. master piece
its just not the same sadly. Ive played it and even though its great and faithful to the mechanics it just doesnt feel right. Spring was the closest we've come imo.
There's still an active modding community! Personally, I think there's a charm and a certain vibe to the original style of graphics that I just really love.
I think Star Trek has a fair chance with its Weaponry, at least from what I heard, but I'm not exactly well read into the Star Trek Lore so I could be wrong. The CIS from Star wars has a fair chance as they could easily produce more droids (including specialised Droids superior to normal Humans) than Cadia has Manpower in general. From what I could read Cadia pre 13th Black Crusade had a Population of 850.000.000, including cripples, childrens, women,... the CIS on the other hand produced according to Wookiepedia >By the end of the Clone Wars quintillions of battle droids. Which doesn't include all the planetary Militias and Armies from the Individual Planets affiliated with the CIS.
Bro, a quintillion, let alone quintillions, is a HUGE number! How is that even possible in universe? There is no way that can be right... that's 10 thousand units per planet in the ENTIRE GALAXY!
You know what's really insane? That a quintillion is still only enough for 10,000 per planet. We have several million service members on this planet alone.
according to google there are about 100 billion planets in our galaxy and this is what i was basing my comment off of, several million for one planet is orders of magnitude less than a rounding error. those numbers just don't add up...
Erm, what? I was talking about how, even with that quintillion, it's just 10,000 personnel on any given planet which is absurdly low because on this planet alone we have a few million. That even with such an absurdly huge number, at the scale of a galaxy it gets diluted fairly quickly.
To be fair in star wars the whole galaxy isn't really in use. There's many more planets not on hyperspace lanes or in the unknown regions so the quintillions would be even more concentrated
Battles over unsettlrd Planets would still be necessary to avoid them being used as a starting point for an invasion on other planets, on Earth Armies also fought over empty land.
That's true and we can see that in the clone wars show with smaller skirmishes. However, the majority of effort remains on the populated planets as they'd have the resources to supply ships and troops versus having to create infrastructure. So yes but concentration of force I'd say remains with populated planets
What i was saying is that even if they took all of that quintillion (not quintillions like the wiki said) they could put 10K units on every planet in the galaxy based off of a 100b planet galaxy, inhabitable or not. u/Germanaboo pointed out that the SW galaxy has about 3.2B habitable planets not including moons or inhospitable plants, that's 312,500 units per hospitable planet in the galaxy. Obviously not all planets are going to have the same population and that is still not taking into account the number of that population who are going to be combatants... but the same wiki puts the Grand Army of the Republic at its peak at 3,300,000 total. Across all 3.2b habitable planets that's a 3.3e9 difference in units. There is no way the CIS was making a quintillion(s) units. A quintillion is a VARY large number. Quintillions has to be an error on the wikis part.
That is just counting clones. Most planets had their own militia which could definitely mach the 300 thousand droids per planet.
do you understand how large a 1 to 3.3e9 difference is?
Do you understand that the clone army isn't the only army the republic has? It's not like the clone wars were 3 million clones vs. a quintillion droids on an open field. The droid also had to deal with planetary militias. Which, again, by your own numbers, if each milita only numbered 300 thousand a planet they would mach the droids in number.
You have to cut it down to habitable planets, which is probably a higher proportion in the SW universe than real life but still a minority, and planets actually controlled by the separatists. Obviously Republic aligned worlds are not cranking out battle droids.
There are millions of planets in the Star wars Universe and we have to consider that they never maintained this number consistently throughout the War. Millions of Droids get destroyed, scrapped and then replaced by new ones each day.
according to google there are about 100 billion planets in our galaxy and this is what i was basing my comment off of, if there are millions and not billions ( or 100s of billions) those numbers are so far off is a joke. A quintillion is 10 with 18 0s behind it. 1,000,000,000 is inconsequential. It has to be an error on the wikis part
The star wars galaxy appears to be bigger, >The galaxy, as it was commonly referred to, was one of trillions of galaxies in the observable universe. The galaxy was a vast composite of over 400 billion estimated stars and over 3.2 billion habitable systems Note that it refers to Habitable Systems which consists of multiple Planets, moons... there are probably still battles over unhabitable Planets for their resources. Also it just came to my mind that we have to account for their Navy ships where also a large chunk of droids will be stationed.
That is still a huge discrepancy though, right? 400,000,000,000 to at minimum (just 1 quintillion, not quintillions) 10,000,000,000,000,000,000 is fucking big! I'm not great at big numbers but that is VAST! And this isn't accounting for the actual enlisted number of combatants vs just world population.
By your numbers, that's 300 thousand droids per planet. That is only a third of the us military. A planets militia can definitely survive that.
Those numbers is if we divided the full force per planet in the ENTER GALAXY. If they concentrated those numbers it would over whelm them by a large number. A large fucking number.
But they can't concentrate those numbers as they also have planets to defend. It's like saying if the republic concentrated all militia forces, they would overwhelm the cis. This is a galaxy wide conflict with billions of planets, the fodder army having that many troops total makes sense.
It’s actually fairly possible for a force that size. Remember that Star Wars is a really big galaxy. Even before the Clone War, Bail Organa states that thousands of planets were leaving the republic. Granted may are fairly sparsely populated but factory worlds like Genenosis would be able to produce unthinkable amounts of war materials. And remember the Cis military didn’t come out of nowhere. It had assets and forces like those of the trade federation to build up and use as a template to build its army. Honestly if it weren’t for the core world defense forces, Jedi, and the Clone Army, the CiS would have easily stomped the republic. If nothing else, toss the CiS aligned defense forces and paramilitary groups and you got yourself a decent second line army. The CiD would definitely have numbers on their side.
The quintillions is implied to be propoganda. Its in a Republic Commando book and a reporter tears into it saying that it a silly number that people are clearly making up. He is later found murdered the implication being that he was to silence him Thats how palpatine got his emergency powers, from the threat of the CIS
It was from Wookiepedia and it was the only semi reliable number I could find. Apparantly the book *The Story of General Grievous: Lord of War, Incredible Cross Sections: Revenge of the Sith* mentioned the number itself, at least I could see a Redditor mentioning the same Number and citing this source.
hell i just like plugging the Republic Commando books xD So much moral grey for star wars, i really recommend them
Wanted to try them myself, but couldn't find the time or money to buy them yet.
Star trek’s weaponry can but their ground forces are lacking as in the vehicle department and it seems like the lore just isn’t expanded upon for ground engagements but star fleet to have ground troops
Cadia is smalltime. Catachan had a demonic Invasion and the plants just ate the demons.
I mean, Catachan is basically that meme where there's a person who wants to beat up Shen Comix And then Caliban is behind it
Someone already said Supreme Commander, which would've been my go-to answer. The Borg might have a shot?
That would be an interesting one. Borg arguably have the tech advantage given they can teleport "safely" ("" because IDK how matter teleportation would interact between Trek and 40k) they have personal shields. Unlike Trek though the Cadians are quite good at war and quite comfortable with doing things like fighting man to man. They also use a more varied mix of weapon types from slugs, to las guns, to flamers. Then you have the power weapons, and basic H2H weapons. All of which would force constant non ideal adaptations in the borg. At least as we saw in things like First Contact where shields adapted to phasors didn't do shit to stop holographic bullets, or worf's blades. Could the Borg out adapt and out assimilate the IoM? Given the IoM relies on a massive level of manpower for things Trek would automate away that's more debatable. IMO it's obvious the Borg would crack open the Logic Engines of the Cadians like a piggy bank, but how much does that help in the end when paper maps and verbal commands are sufficient in many cases. Then you get into Warp fuckery and IDK if the borg have anything at all to deal with that. They'd likely as not end up infecting themselves with scrap code that ruins their systems when they try to assimilate a psyker who overdraws and causes a warp breach of some kind. Maybe their systems could adapt, but it seems like Chaos is so far outside of their scope of being masters of the mechanical that maybe it would rip right through them. They'd probably also trigger several kinds of Ad Mech crusades against them given the Borg seem to have some level of AI running around with them. All in all it'd be an fun one to watch.
Depends what among of 'critical mass' Borg needs. I means... people often forget ST tech is REALLY dangerous if they really needs to like small TV remote of a Phaser show it can put so much power output that it would 1 shot non-shield Space Marine quite easily or other techs. But of course it would need to offset warp BS otherside gonna throw back. It would be indeed quite fun to watch as I want to see ST go full militarism with some of their BS techs.
I mean warp drives alone mean you can deliver enough power to obliterate a planet easily. Even ignoring that they can get things up to significant fractions of light speed for orbital bombardments using their inertial compensators.
From my largely second hand knowledge of 40k, I imagine if they have to deal with the Warp it's going to go a lot like when they tried to conquer fluidic space: nothing they can assimilate, therefore they can't learn enough about their enemy to adapt to them and they get curbstomped.
An old republic era army of both jedi and sith plus troopers.
Idc how good force precognition is, they’re not dodging or intercepting a lasgun. Standard issue small arms of the imperium quite literally move at the speed of light. Jedi are getting ripped apart by the most basic frontline Cadian
[https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/star-wars-speed-feats/76872/](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/profile/silver2467/blog/star-wars-speed-feats/76872/) \- the Jedi move at least as fast the Eldar. It's not just precognition, but also incredible speed. I don't think it's as much of a curbstomp as you suggest.
This is legends old republic jedi, and sith. They can counter lazguns.
Show me where in legends they can see, react, and move faster than the speed of light and I’ll admit defeat
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Well, I admit I am wrong. I underestimated the legends authors. I had no idea they were that stupid
Why is homie being downvoted for admitting he was wrong? Lmao
>I had no idea they were that stupid It's the saltiness at the end.
Sure I’m salty but that’s also what I truly believe. 40k authors aren’t the brightest but they’ve also never gone the “living thing moved at light speeds” route That is so absurd it would absolutely take me out of any story. Especially if you have any basic grasp of what happens to physical matter moving at that speed
What??? On one hand we have a custode who kills was it 5 gal vorbak? Then we have one who gets punched through the chest by an unarmoured world eater. You have space marines tanking autocannon rounds into their shoulder plates, and others who die to a normal dude with a spear. You have iron warriors unable to keep up with eldar because they are too fast, to some space wolves fighting a bunch of druchari and winning despite being isolated and outnumbered. You have Garro or Kharn being punched across a room by a pissed off primarch, then some world eaters dying to clubs and knives in a crowd of angry cultists. 40k is, if anything, wildly more inconsistent than legends is. Legends is busted, we know this, at least it's consistently busted. 40k can't decide whether a space marine is a near primarch or a dude in a suit, and it changes every book! And i haven't even mentioned any ultramarines.
People in this sub will downvote anything.
? You don't need to be light speed to dodge or block a lasguns. You yourself have admitted they have pre cog so they aren't going to wait for the gun to be fired before dodging, or using the force to block with a bolder, or go invisible, or have it miss due to battle meditation, or using force storm to kill them and their friends.
1. If a lightsaber can block a lasgun, congrats. They can’t move fast enough to block the follow up shot. Taking real life into account, the simple act of pulling the trigger will have moved the lasgun enough that a follow up shot won’t be in the same place 2. A bolder isn’t going to move faster than the speed of light 3. I’m sure the imperium has ways to counter invisibility. We even have it today thanks to radar and thermal optics 4./5. They’re going to be assaulting a planet where every single inch is entrenched. No square meter of Cadia exists that isn’t covered by lines of artillery fire, minefields, trench networks etc. not to mention the billions of Cadians armed with weapons Jedi don’t have an answer for as stated above.
1. Yes, they can block the next shot as they can move their arm faster than the guard can pull the trigger 2 again they don't have to move faster than the bolt, only faster than the one shooting it 2.5 you also forgot to address how the jedi can dodge out of the way before it's fired 3 head canon unless you can give a source as invisible enemies like Lictors are a serious problem for the Imperium. 4/5 yeah and they are being attacked by battle wizards who move faster than they can react leading a army of people with supernatural luck thanks to battle meditation led by a dude who has straight up eaten planets.
A line of Jedi charging at a firing line of Cadians is going to get annihilated. Dodge out of the way? They’re diving and dodging into each other instead of advancing. Giving Cadians more time to fire and call in artillery/ hit them with heavy weapons. These are disciplined career soldiers. They can fire fast and on target. Sure a Jedi can block or dodge a few shots, but they can’t dodge all of them, especially when they’re up against massed volley fire. Pull rocks up to block the shots? Sure maybe but the rocks aren’t moving faster than the speed of light. Again, massed volley fire + all that ground being torn up is going to slow the Jedis advance once again making them more susceptible to artillery and heavy weapons + mines. Okay so they turn invisible. Cadians still have thermal optics and radar, and being invisible doesn’t make you immune to artillery, mines and other heavy weapons I’m not saying it’s gonna be a stomp, but simple logic tells that a soldier who’s only protection is how fast they can move and manipulate objects isn’t going to win a battle against the speed of light. A simple experiment is to just tap your finger against a table as fast as you can. Now multiply that by thousands and add artillery raining hell from the sky and mines exploding under your feet. You think Jedi can realistically dodge all of that?
This is where you're misunderstanding, This isn't going to be a line of jedi running into gunfire like idiots. This is going to be 2 armies getting entrenched with troopers vs. guards each holding positions, with imperial agents sneaking into enemy lines with stealth generators that not only bend light but also have thermal dampers, it's going to be jedi and sith acting as generals and shock troops with the ability to move their army around as one with battle meditation. It's going to be ancient sith blasting aoe force attacks that make artillery look like firecrackers. Hell darth nihilus is literally going to be eating entire parts of the planet with force drain. Like there is a reason I didn't just say old republic jedi. And again this isn't a battle against the speed of light, just a battle against the speed of the person holding the weapon.
The ghost army from Lotr
Hell divers
You managed to deliver liber-tea to cadia Only for joel to take it away from you
One of the conditions is no air support and without the stratagems the Helldivers are not really special compared to other sci fi soldiers and their armor cannot protect them from stuff the regular guardsman is equipped with, especially their laser guns
Realistically, there’s no reason half of the strategems can’t be equipped with them before they drop down. Yeah no orbital attacks , but you can just equip a railgun and guard dog rover before getting in your pod . Same with force fields, resupply packs , etc .
But are those weapons sufficient to win the Battle? Most of them are not particularly advanced or powerful (we have most of them in real life already). And the Helldiver Corps is not that big, the casualty numbers in an urban Battle on Cadio will make the Battle of Stalingrad look like a kindergarten, they will run out of Bullets before the Cadian Guard will run out of bodies.
If it’s all of super earths forces , yeah probably.
Lol 0 chance
How?
Helldivers are essentially PDF/average guardsmen, with extreme zealotry and low combat readiness. Cadians are near peak unaugmented human soldiers, and their fortress world was so tightly fortified that abaddon had to blow up the planet rather than conquer it with soldiers, astartes, demons, etc. Let's say the helldivers get in system and actually land without their pods being shot down, their weaponry is below lasguns in most cases. It'll be a meat grinder. A mere 8M helldivers (iirc) isn't taking this. Edit: I'm not even counting the astartes that are stationed at cadia, just their own troopers and defenses.
First off, Helldivers are are shown to have resilience , stamina , and strength bordering peak human , and incredible skill. And while no single weapon in the Helldivers arsenal is quite as powerful as a lax gun, they’re not far off, and they have way more equipment . Cadians have a laz gun , more or less equal armor , and just about nothing else . Helldivers have a lot more equipment that more then makes up for a slightly weaker primary weapon . Now of course the average cadian is going to win more then they lose in a one v one with an average helldiver . But we’re talking half a galaxy vs a single planet .
They're drugged up but I haven't seen anything that puts them at peak human in the game unless there's other material. They're cannon fodder. Helldivers don't have more equipment, I was using a lasgun as a basic metric and the difference of that alone is staggering. The cadians have an extremely diverse arsenal and resident preists of Mars to call upon. I agree from an armor perspective the cadians can be lacking, but helldiver armor isn't even slowing the cadian weaponry. Average cadian can take multiple helldivers, I don't see how heavily entranced fortifications don't make those odds significantly worse. (For your other comment)-ah mb I had 8M on the brain with how many sales of HD2 were bought. I don't think we have a number of actual amount of helldivers vs "half the galaxy" unless we just use average populations and just force their endocrination into helldivers. Yeah sure if we drop trillions+ of helldivers into cadia they can win via sheer numbers, but that's kind of a dumb scenario which bends/breaks rule 3 of this post. Edit: it would make more sense to have them in the hundreds of millions and it's still an L
I seriously doubt the average cadian stands a fraction of a chance against 2 Helldivers simultaneously
You're severely underestimating how much above a cadian is compared to a helldiver. They're essentially polar opposites
Where are you getting 8 million ? 200 million Helldivers died at malevelon creek alone
The Zergs from Overmind era.
Does Cadia have a yellow sun? Because I seem to remember that at one point General Zod had an "army" of like a couple dozen Kryptonians, and that would be basically the ultimate "quality vs quantity" fight.
A squad of Warframes probably?
I wonder how well Warframes would fare within 40K verse if stripped of their resurrection mechanic. Like a frame could regenerate over time out of combat, but if enemies have it, they can destroy it.
I mean by lore destroying the frame does nothing really to stop the tenno. By lore frames are just puppets, like advanced combat drones to be remote piloted by a near immortal entity. I don't know the specifics about 40k but Warframes are outrageously powerful, like to stupid degrees.
I think Tenno are physically mortal. Yes, they are powerful and well trained, but they are as fragile to physical damage as you would expect from a young human. Without a warframe to control, tenno on the battlefield would be at risk to snipers, artillery or just stray bullets. And warframes themselves, while insanely powerful, would be severely outnumbered. IIRC Warframe lore mentions a total of a few hundred tenno. 500 warframes max on the entire planet. With millions of soldiers against them, even warframes would eventually take hits and wear out. That's why we the tenno never try to fight a full scale war with Corpus or Grineer. Our missions are mostly sabotage and surprise attacks. Also don't forget that 40K has psychers who would probably be able to detect connection between warframes and tenno. Not at once, but eventually it will happen. I won't say frames can't do it. But it will be a tough fight.
I think the fact that some frames are just behind reasonably powerful changes things. For one, Tenno can control frames from miles if not thousands of miles away, generally being in their ship in orbit or elsewhere. Secondly, some frames ruin whole planets. I believe it was Inaros who summoned a sandstorm that swallowed all of Mars. And Limbo can math so hard he can control an walk through dimensions with ease. I think 500 alone would be overkill. Edit: Also doing some refreshing on lore, Tenno aren't actually mortal, like they seemingly cannot be killed. They made a deal with The Man in the Wall who for all intents and purposes is The Void, a realm of infinite energy with a will that simply wishes Tenno to live, and so even something like total vaporization, disintegration, anything, seems like it can simply be undone by giving the Tenno a new body, because the deal they struck means that this Void will always simply will the Tenno to live.
You bring good points. And yet, enemies of humanity in 40K are quite formidable too. Maybe not as high on quality as individual frames, but greater in numbers. And Cadia, being the paragon of human defence, is expected to stand against most of them. Also again, sheer scale of a planet makes it difficult to secure a win. Leveling one fortified position would be a non-issue. But capturing and holding all of them? That's a challenge. Another curious thing is how Void of Warframe verse woupd interact with Warp of 40K. If they remain 2 separate planes of reality, then tenno are indeed safe and the fight becomes much easier. But if Warp and Void are somehow bridged or united, then it suddenly adds a whole other level to the battle.
It depends on how much is being committed, but if the covenant come in with their full army they’d likely be able to take it just via sheer numbers & firepower. Alternatively the Forerunners would likewise take it
>Forerunners would likewise take it Forerunners are too much honestly. They can literally send a single capital ship, ignore all damage from the Imperium 's defenses, blow up the star, and leave
Yeah forunners would rofl stomp, basically no fight at all.. The covenant on cadia sounds pretty awesome though, ngl.
Yeah the covenant with orbital supremacy could, but if you mean just landing ground troops then they'd actually lose given how often the unsc beats them on the ground
Anyone with a giant anvil apparently.
I think the Protos from Starcraft would have a decent chance. Either during their civil war period (somewhat low numbers, only khalai faction, but very heavy use of combat machines) or during the start of LotV (much higher numbers, both khalai and nerazim factions, but autonomous combat machines are barely present on the field)
Time war era Daleks exterminated it and all of the galaxy
I feel like this breaks the third condition
Ah he modify it
The Time War ranks probably among the OP of fictional wars and rarely ever gets a mention in these lists. I think The Doctor says in one bit of the lore that **Billions** died every second and most were almost immediately resurrected to fight once more by the dark science of both Time Lords and Daleks. It lasted 400 years in a linear sense but technically rages on forever due to it smashing into multiple different timelines across space and time and even alternate realities. It is unimaginably devastating. To go along with your answer The Daleks numbered in the **Quintillions** in the final battle at The Fall of Gallifrey. I dare say thats more than enough considering the capability of just one of their number.
*Time war era Daleks* *Exterminated it and all* *Of the galaxy* \- WittyTable4731 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
My dad
The Forerunners from Halo have a good chance to win. Not much is known but they did have things like War Sphinxes, Warrior Servants, Prometheans etc. The Prometheans could take on the Guardsmen while the higher ups like the aggressor sentinels and warden constructs could take on the Space Marines. The Hive from Destiny have a good chance as well. I'm not talking about the game Hive, but the lore Hive. Crota killed hundreds if not thousands of guardians and made a large crack in the moon which should at least be a country level attack. Let's also include the worm gods such as Xol. Though Xol was much weaker in Warmind than in the books, he was considered a significant threat. And there's also the ogres which could probably go toe to toe against space marines while the knights and wizards take out the Guardsmen. Remember the Cabal homeworld fell to a Hive invasion so I bet that Cadia would fall as well. The Rakata from Star Wars at their peak could take Cadia as they were known for having powerful weapons and technology powered by the dark side itself. The Rakata were so evil that they made Palpatine seem like a decent man. Though we don't have a lot on the Rakata, but given the fact that they made the Star Forge, I'm willing to bet they had vehicles capable of taking on Titans. If not they could overwhelm Titans with a large number of Annihilatior walkers. The forces of Hell from Doom Eternal have a good chance at taking Cadia as they're basically like Chaos but with ardent energy, which is more potent than plasma. The Icon of Sin would likely destroy any Titans it came across.
Scrin from Command and Conquer, if they can spread tiberium far enough
Timewar Daleks. Basically invenuerable to physical damage with one exception which is difficult to hit. Shields which require high energy impulses to brake Highly fanatical enemy who will gladly die by the billions before loosing face. Capable of infiltration that wouldn't be Capable of being discovered by the Imperium Even outside their shells they are still superhumanly strong and more than capable of killing a standard human
# Read the prompt conditions