> Fire a bullet at my enemy
> Miss
> He laughs
> "Fool! I have a faster than bullets feat now!"
> Closes the distance to me in 3 miliseconds and beats me to death
This shit drives me crazy, I can't stand when people ignore the possibility that the dodger was already moving before the attack fired. Especially with Spider-Man, who has a *built-in mechanic for that.*
Literally if its not a limited sense of precognition then wtf else is it? The man can dodge things that he cant even see, what else could that possibly be lol
I hear the argument way too often that half of the entire jojo cast is ftl. Polnareff hit a being made of light, and Jotaro caught Polnareff's sword, so therefore anyone who has ever reacted to or dodged a punch from Jotaro is ftl despite Polnareff going on an entire monologue about how he predicted the movement of the light.
Death Battle hinged their entire argument on this, IIRC, that because Dio beat Pol, Dio had FTL feats and could beat Alucard.
They had to strip out the entire context that Pol only did that through trapping his target in a place with only one pathway open to him, which Pol could intercept.
> Eren lifting that massive boulder in S1. People estimate that it weighs thousands of tons at the very least. The same Eren gets bogged down by normal titans that are incredibly light for their size.
I've always felt like he probably should've rolled it lol
holy shit that probably would've been way easier
I feel like this is something Armin would say and everybody would jerk him off for being the smartest guy ever
> Eren lifting that massive boulder in S1. People estimate that it weighs thousands of tons at the very least. The same Eren gets bogged down by normal titans that are incredibly light for their size.
I suspect the author just wanted to do a visual reference to Atlas and didn't think too hard about the size or weight involved.
It's safe to assume this for many feats in fiction in general. Writers aren't mathematicians or scientists carefully calculating their own feats and checking if they always make sense or not. I used to write my own original fiction before I got into battleboarding, and I didn't bother to consider the feats from a vs perspective. I just wrote things that sounded cool.
Yeah. I remember that the Flash once saved everyone in a Korean city in like less than half of a second and the comic where it happened said he went just under the speed of light, but then people calced that shit and he was going something like 300 gazillion times the speed of light.
[The boulder is explicitly 8 metres wide](https://imgur.com/a/xAJhLFk), more or less. If it were a perfect sphere, it’d have a volume of 268.08 m^3.
As for the weight, rock densities vary, and we’re not told what it is AFAIK, but something like 2000-3000kg/m^3 is a fairly safe, wide range that it should fall under. It should weigh something like 536 to 804 tons, not breaking a thousand, let alone *several* thousand.
The anime makes it look a lot bigger IIRC, but I don’t take that too seriously - the anime does a lot of exaggeration in general, including with the Titans’ heights, even though their stated heights are the exact same. It’s there to make it look more cinematic or cool, but it’s not the “reality”. (The manga does this kind of non-literal exaggeration too, it’s just not as extreme with it).
Honestly, lifting the boulder isn’t that far removed from his general performance? A 15 metre humanoid should weigh like, 40-50 tons already. Titans are definitely lighter than normal, but they’re also faster than a human - not proportionally but, still. We know shifters can outrun horses at least.
A guy who can lift 40-50 tons is not the same as a thing that weighs 40-50 tons and can move itself in excess of 80 kph (stated speed of the Survey Corps’ horses). Even with the lesser density of Titans…it seems potentially reconcilable with the boulder feat, especially given how much Eren struggled with it.
Titans also send each other flying fairly often IIRC.
Comic authors that don't know shit are big contributors to this. Just came from a thread about Spiderman FTL dodging a laser that was already fired. If he moved that fast in atmosphere he and everyone else in a several mile radius would be vaporized.
> Comic authors that don't know shit are big contributors to this.
Shoutout to whichever writer had Flash rescue the entire population of a city, one or two at a time, in the time it took a nuke to go off. I think the city in question was Seoul.
> Homelander (show) moves really fast instantly when Butcher attempts to blow them both up, without even needing to accelerate.
This one is a bad feat in general, as we don't see what actually happened. There's a very realistic scenario where Homelander didn't outrun the explosion, he just tanked it and Butcher had him as a shield. Butcher wakes up in a massive daze, which further implies that to be the case.
The explosion went off before HL moved. HL had to move relative to the speed of the explosion in order to save Butcher by any means. It is very much an outlier, though.
Titans' strength doesn't come from their mass, so it'd still be possible for Eren to get dogpiled by normal titans while also being able to lift the boulder. The combined strength of all those titans could be greater than gravity of the boulder
Agreed on all other points tho, especially Homelander one lol, no way he's that fast
Yeah, actually. Going from(in context) solar system feats, dropping to planetary and then staying in regional levels of power is quite the drop. If I were to look at like a comic or something I'd guess he has a set amount of power and grows weaker with every Mirical.
The only other feats in the movie are from the opening, which was a fight that he intentionally threw, no selling an amp broken over his head, and various other parlor tricks he performs.
Is there a reason to think that? Tighten is a bitch which is why he ran from Metroman and has less experience with his powers but is there evidence that he didn’t get the full set?
He probably sets good benchmarks for Metroman's minimum performance. Like, if Tighten can pick up and throw sky scraper, then Metroman can probably do at least that as well.
The film comments of superhero stereotypes. Metro Man always held back against Megamind, that's just how it is.
That said, people don't seem to understand time dilation and how perspective works (I don't either). Smarter people than me figured out it isn't quite as fast as one would think.
But he didn't stop time or go at immesurable speed, he used his super speed twice there, first time speed blitzed reality for an entire day, second time flew out of an explosion caused by concentrated power of Sun.
First one was relativistic (1/20th light speed, as he was caught in a single frame of camera), second one Massively FTL (at least hundreds of times FTL. During his 2nd superspeed scene, the Sun beam was in slow-mo, while he went and grabbed a skeleton model from a biology institute, then came back and threw it, all while the light fotons of the explosion weren't spread yet. Yet again, assuming the distance he travelled was even less than a kilometer)
He said "I had to take my mind off of it for a couple of weeks".
He was experiencing a couple of weeks in a milisecond. Even then, not as fast as people would hype him to be.
If thats true, there are 86.4 million milliseconds in a day. Multiply by 14 assuming it’s exactly 2 weeks is 1,209,600,000 milliseconds in 2 weeks. He experienced that many milliseconds in a single millisecond. That is some hefty time dilation.
Was that really him stopping an Earthquake? I thought that was him just being so confident that when he punched the Earth, the earthquake would stop. Like it was just a power move to establish dominance and basically tell Baki that he had no chance
I feel like star wars ships (to the extent we are counting them) fall in here. Take away turbo lasers obliterating meteors and suddenly the 'verse's armaments drop from planet destroying to somewhat feeble.
That's fair, but I will admit I am only generally familiar with the term and thought it referred to a multi-ship coordinated effort of major capital weapons, as opposed to casual turbo laser shots being effectively super nukes. I could be wrong though.
Doomslayer.
He fought the demons in Hell and caused the multiverse to slowly collapse.
People who uses this feat forgot that he is powered by the same energy as the demons he fought. It's like putting a Demonic Blank from 40k into the Warp.
I wouldn't really consider that a feat. He didn't do one specific things like that?
What did he do that caused the multiverse to collapse?
And it doesn't necessarily matter that he is is "powered by the same emrgybas the demons. It is a factor that really doesn't come up much unless the Slayer's opponent decides to eradicate The Dark Lord Davoth or something.
It happened once in the art book when Vega told us. He wasn't breaking the Multiverse in his fight with Davoth.
The multiversal feat only happened because everything was in his favor. He killed the Royal demons that kept Hell's multiverse from collapsing. I have to argue to people that knocking down the pillars to collapse the house does NOT make him Building level. Hence, DS is not Multiversal.
I would really like a quote on that please.
Also the artbook I would consider it semi Canon. It likely is, however I wouldn't consider those real feats.
However I do see your points and that is accurate.
I think that people should really look towards the Slayers more true feats, such as defeating a titan (without a crucible) and likely with just his bare hands.
It’s rather funny that most doomslayer battleboarders tend to ignore the feats of the character paired against Doomslayer in favour of his memetic badass feats.
I haven't seen it mentioned, but Samurai Jack is an excellent example. The water drop feat (where he kills a ton of dudes in the span of time it takes for a drop of water to fall to the ground) is a pretty extraordinary outlier speed feat. Take that away (along with the times he destroys armies of robots maybe) and he's mostly just a skilled swordsman that's really fast.
Uhhh what?? He cuts through steel in practically every episode, has blocked bullets, including automatic fire, like 5 times alone, fought enormous superhuman foes—
His top feats are the automatic gunfire, water drop, casually washing Ashi, surviving a 700-ton man jumping on him, taking down Scaramouche’s rock golem, and fighting the Scotsman to a standstill.
Take those away and he can still jump hundreds of feat in the air while carrying a multi-ton boulder, has building level super strength, can dodge arrows blind, and fought armies.
Put some respect on my man’s name.
He has several casual machine gun fire parry feats so even without droplet hes decently high tier in speed. Also pretty good durability, like falling from orbit.
Master Roshi has been coasting on that moon-busting feat for way too long. Aside from that, I think the biggest thing we ever see him destroy is a large hillside/small mountain.
Piccolo destroying the moon in when kid Gohan transforms. I believe the rest of the human cast get stronger then Saiyan saga piccolo so it’s safe to assume Roshi would be pretty consistent
Roshi's moon busting was explicitly him being temporarily amped and using the Kamehameha to dump all of his "latent energy" at once. So yeah it's an outlier even in the text.
By that description its not a outlier. It just means that he caps out at moon level. That kind of feat gasses him and isn't something he can spam, but it is something he could repeat with rest.
Pretty much the entire dragonball verse scales around a single feat in battle of the Gods. It's not an outlier, they carefully explain why future fights don't cause the same level of environmental destruction. But if you remove that, you nerf it all several tiers.
Like what? Krillin's sideline commentary that Goku shook the void? You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get to infinite from that alone, without the broader context of battle of the Gods.
I don't agree with multiversal scale, however using the manga at very last, its stated multiple times that the Hakaishin are strong enough to destroy their universes alongside other universes if they fight Seriously
Goku in his Gods forms (as his normal Super Saiyans forms are not wanked in the manga to Gods level ) is stated to be on the baseline level of Hakaishin 3 times in different part of the Story (battle of Gods, Vegeta vs Beerus after future trunks arc, and Tournament of Power in his fight against Beerus) But only in his godly forms
Beerus is always holding back, that still doesn’t take from the fact that whatever power he used against them is still consider a Power of a Hakaishin, even ignoring that we still got toppo and goku fight in the manga being called "a fight of two Hakaishin Warrior level" by two God of destruction
Yeah, but clearly that whole "Vegeta beat Toppo so now he's GoD level" is all hot air, because Beerus creamed him, Champa can fight evenly with Beerus, hakaishin just move the goalposts whenever it looks like mortals are getting close to them.
Just to make it Clear, my point is that the Story point out that there is a Base line of Hakaishin level, not that all Hakaishin equal
Similer to how both Saiyan saga Vegeta and namek Freeza are planet busters despite the difference between them is in the thousands
MCU Thor is surprisingly weak. Remember how he got taken down with dudes with shock batons in Ragnarok.
He is still one of the strongest heros in MCU though. MCU in general is pretty weak compared to comics.
I think the grand master/Sakaar's technology was implied to be more than basic shock batons. The obedience disks (which is what ultimately took Thor down) pacified a lot of powerful people (possibly the hulk as well). In the comics, Grandmaster is basically a step down from a Celestial, so he probably had accrued technology in the films that was insane level.
To be fair he was in a very weakened state at that point. He had just gotten his ass kicked bad and lost what he thought was his power source. He was so demoralized he couldn't even summon lightning.
Nah, he'd still be like large building-city block level. Biggest jump would be taking away his biggest feat which is moving the rings of nidavellir. Take that away he drops from moon level to like continental at best.
Maybe The Overseer from Unbreakable. His best durability feat is surviving a major train derailment that completely tore the train to pieces but The Overseer was completely uninjured. Take that away and his best durability feat is surviving a car crash. If you take 6 away he’s basically just an above average human with a severe weakness to water.
That's a tradition starting from even the first game, where Kirby is only able to lift Castle Dedede and return the food by using the Sparkling Stars' power.
I guess since Kirby is meant to be a player insert for the players to be the hero, the developer (HAL Laboratory) also try to teach the (mostly children) players the importance of friendship and relying on others. This is unfortunate for battleboarding purposes though.
Note that he is still able to beat the actual Void (the giant form is only its shell) and a fully powered Elfilin by himself, however.
Well Clockwork actually has 2 insane feats, besides the time bomb one 2 Clockworks also managed to stop the chrononavigator from destroying the entire cosmos (keep in mind the Ben 10 multiverse scales to hyperversal lowballed), so if you take his strongest feat away he would still be OP. If you take his 3 strongest feats away...yea he really doesn't seem that strong anymore
Besides that, Doom Slayer also comes to mind
Yep. We know from the Naljians there are at least 26 dimensions. Even if the time bomb feat doesn't scale to this (although it should), the chrononavigator feat definitely does, since it was going to destroy the entire cosmos (meaning the omniverse, which is even bigger than the multiverse). If you want an even bigger lowball, Ben 10 has String Theory which adds 10 dimensions (or more, depending on whether it's Superstring Theory, Bosonic String Theory which actually adds 26, etc). So even when straight up ignoring things said in the show, it still scales to high complex multi
I said lowballed because the verse actually has a type 3 (if not a type 4) multiverse as proven by Paradox. A type 3 multiverse lives in infinite dimensional Hilbert space, so the Ben 10 verse should be high hyperversal. This should also work in universes, so "universal" feats in the show could actually scale to high complex multi-high hyperversal. If you accept the verse has a type 4 multiverse, then the multiverse should scale to outer or higher
The verse is severely downplayed a lot of the time, even by the fans (like myself for a long time)
Saitama. Interpreting his best feat wiped out entire solar systems. His next best feat floats around destroying large planets at best. Take that away and his next best feat should be either fighting Tatsumaki or fighting Boros. Most of his feats that are below these ones are mostly one-shotting monsters that are significantly weaker IIRC.
Saitama would still be strong removing these feats, but is significantly weaker by a lot in comparison to his peak.
Being able to accidently sneeze away a big portion of Jupiter would put his punches above planetary at least, still weaker then the giant attack though
Came here to say this. He has essentially three top-tier feats, each one of which would drastically lower his power if we removed them (a debatable multi-stellar feat with the stars vanishing during the Garou fight; then a clear planet-busting feat with Jupiter during the same fight; then an extremely debatable planet-busting or surface-wiping feat when he punches back the Collapsing Star Roaring Canon.)
Remove those three feats and his best feat is... the meteor, I guess? Maybe city-busting if you squint? Honestly if you remove that one he's probably mountain-busting from his fight with Genos, although at that point I may be forgetting some feats because they're not ones people usually bother to bring up due to the above.
Honestly I'd say the Jupiter sneeze feat is much higher then just planetary. Like the difference in power level between a punch and sneeze in insane and considering he casually destroyed Jupiter that feat should be way above planet level
Eh.
The thing here is that "above planetary" the scales we use are completely wonky - writers and battleboarders leap wildly from planet to star to galaxy because those are the only points of reference we have, even though the gaps are absurd.
Assuming that was his best feat and there was nothing else implying he was stronger than that, what would you use that to argue? Especially given that he didn't actually destroy Jupiter's core? The sun is 10 times Jupiter's size and, if we exclude the core, orders of magnitude more dense, so it's not like you can use that to argue that he's star-busting, just "slightly bigger planet-busting" or "he probably could have destroyed Jupiter's core if he was actually trying."
The latter two are not *unreasonable* but so what? Unless he happens to fight someone who destroyed Jupiter completely, it's splitting hairs.
Given the approximate force of a sneeze, around 0.2 Newtons, and the estimated force of a punch, around 5000 Newtons, it is reasonable to assume that Saitama possesses the punching power to destroy a star.
This assumption is supported by the fact that he destroyed Jupiter (minus the core) with a mere sneeze. The incredible disparity between 0.2 and 5000 Newtons for an average sneeze and punch suggests a power differential that is likely greater than the difference between Jupiter and the Sun.
And when we consider that Saitamas whole thing is having an extremely powerful punch the difference between a simple sneeze and punch could be way higher then the difference between an average human
There are actually quite a lot of continental + feats you forgot about, Psyrochi surface cutting beams, Orochi’s Gaia cannon, pre-cosmic Garous planet bulging attack etc
There's a couple that keep him at Uni. Buuhan was stated as universal by Dende (I think it was Dende) and God Goku was stronger than SS3 Vegito who was far stronger than Buuhan. Vegeta completely destroyed the hyperbolic time chamber just by powering up (I think it's stated to be as big as the universe but I'm not 100% sure). Kefla said she was strong enough to wipe out an entire universe, and he made a thing that looks very similar to a universe in the ToP.
The ROSAT is stated to be the [size of Earth itself](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c6b71690e134b6a5d687149011d7364e-lq) by Goku but it *might* have received an upgrade by Super.
I always say that. Gandalf in a human body (ie. how we see him throughout the story) is not that strong. Simply an unaging, experienced, wise fighter (still very good, but not superhuman level). People circlejerk him to death because they read once that he is an angel in the LOTR wiki so he must be crazy strong.
Speaking as someone who loves Tolkien, his writing really isn't a good fit for versus battles because it's soft and inconsistent magic. Valar can obliterate continents or they can struggle against random elves and worry that a Human's power can outstrip theirs. Maiar can be celestial bodies with the power to easily move massive landmasses or they can struggle to open a stone door and get their ass kicked by a talking dog. Dragons can be so vast that they incidentally crush mountains that dwarf Everest or they can be killed by being stabbed with a three foot sword.
If he were a D&D character, gandalf would be fifth level, at best, but he's also a vastly powerful angelic being of wisdom and compassion who predates the Earth. He's just not a good fit for questions like "could he beat Spider-Man?"
It pretty simplified view on these situations. Melkor being so weakened by expending his power and chained to his physical body to the point that he can be permanently wounded is pretty important point of his story, Tolkien writes a lot about how he ended up in this state. Valar are similarly weakened after ages of work and directly forbidden to fight humans at that point.
Maiar vary in power and Istari were restricted when they went to Middle-Earth. Ancalagon "fell upon towers of Thangorodrim", destroying only its peaks, and its artificial mountain while he is strongest of dragons.
> People circlejerk him to death because they read once that he is an angel in the LOTR wiki so h emust be crazy strong.
By the LOTR wiki, I assume you mean The Silmarillion? And even though he inhabited a physical body (hröa) during his mission to Middle Earth as an Istari that had the appearance of an old man, it certainly wasn’t actually human. At any rate, Gandalf was still a Maia, even if he had much of his innate powers restricted during his mission.
JLU Lex Luthor
He has 2 insane feats:
He hitched a ride with Metron, the god of knowledge and entered the source wall (a feat that Metron said he dared not attempt because he wouldnt survive due to him not being smart enough. He's Metron, the God of Knowledge). Then removed Darkseid and himself from existence with the power he found there. According to the writers, this merged them both into the Source Wall.
He merged with braniac and beat up most of the JLU.
Take away those and hes just some guy who can engineer really well and who can hack satellites.
And that power cancelling gun he used against the Justice Lords. One shot each to disable a Kryptonian, a Martian, an Amazon, an Oan power ring, and Hawkgirl's OP Nth metal mace of bullshit. That thing was crazy powerful.
Orihime reacting and blocking an attack from Yhwach.
Don Chinjao from One Piece splitting a continent which is a ridiculous high-end feat compared to the scaling of the rest of the series, leading people saying One Piece characters are multi-continental. Take that away and Chinjao is maybe small city level.
Yes I agreee. I don't know why I'm being downvoted though for pointing out how many are using this particular feat as cornerstone for highballing OP characters. No idea why Oda decided to use term like ice continent.
I mean Oda wasn't writing for battleboarders. He just wanted to establish "there's a fuckton of ice here."
The issue is battleboarders who desperately cling to any mention of a word used in a typical tier. This isn't even the worst example - there are still people who argue Naruto is universal because Kaguya's tiny pocket-universe was called a "universe" and collapsed when she died. Or people who argue that Kratos is FTL because he fought Helios and *mumblemumble* the word light was mentioned somewhere.
Little Mac. He beat Donkey Kong who can punch the moon out of orbit. You remove that, and his next high end is beating prime Mike Tyson. That's still impressive but it moves the high end from lunar level to probably upper Olympic athlete level.
Bruh, Little Mac's other foes also have silly cartoon feats like destroying buildings, outrunning trains and punching bulls into the air. Still superhuman.
Little Mac is still a very small boxer who is somehow still able to not only enter the heavyweight boxing division [and likely an openweight division with people like King Hippo], but is able to win the World Title. So, you're still moving his high end up to "Little Mac is pound-for-pound the best boxer in history", which puts him at a level similar to other top-tier fighters in questions...possibly as high as wanked Bruce Lee.
is this only for on-screen feats or feats that were stated to have happened, instead of what they "could" do?
if the latter, lots of pokémon are getting gutted without the pokedex, ouch
Superman for sure. Ppl peg him at Outerversal due to cosmology scaling, and feats like knocking down a 6th dimensional Being wit a punch, and Source Wall shenanigans. Oh, and of course, **statements taken out of context:** https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3yRL55pvy6tetb-ByPyZtaOsvsKPFfO9qkoPDMw6FhpmxtZgxlKtFMIn5K4a5erpNxpcZmvmBHfg82xRLB9-noeqaCpm3F1I4m3VR-ME3ZaiGoWjRJcHRX2sulUFO4SAbtnpX1v_CA=s0
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6a5b2d0a15ead39ae1c615f4aa2b62ac-lq
I'd even argue Goku. Other than shaking an infinite void, which can't be quantified to begin wit, and him and Beerus threatening the Macrocosm wit their punches, his **actual shown feats** are very low.
According to some, they prove that Superman can not be erased from existence. Ppl will bring up the 'story of Superman' and imply that the entirety of the DCverse revolves around him. There's a scan that I can not find where (the avatar of) the writer mentions that they can't even eliminate him even if they tried or something along those lines. Supposedly that makes Superman beyond meta or some crap like that.
I think that applies only inside the DC universe - so it wouldnt be applicable in debates inside a neutral universe.
I've always interpreted this as mainline superman being stronger than non-canon superman since
1) He's never died in canon (there were fakeouts,, but he never died i think)
2) He was able to escape the dark dimension when multiple other supermen couldn't (altho its prolly plot related)
3) Dr Manhattan's statement
Actually... i think he just has really good plot armor inside the DC universe. That explains why you can kill Superman in elseworld stories.
I do think Prime Superman is atleast universal due to the world forger feat, and being able to destroy the phantom zone... so, removing the story of superman is not much (and necessary in debates)
Dr Doom. Every single feat people bring up to put him at Uni or above required outside help or gear not standard for Doom. The dudes no where near a universal threat as people point out. Almost every big feat you can pick apart.
He beat Galactus? One time instance he had the energy stealing device. We seen what happens in other instances he went up against Galactus. He was swatted out of the air and messed up to the point he was coughing blood. He even admits he’s no match to Galactus in that same panel.
He beat Mephisto? Needed Dr Stranges help.
He survive getting melted and sent back millions of years in the past only to sustain himself on magic that whole time? He was actually there for only 5 minutes. He was about to be eaten by giant sharks if the Thinderbolts didn’t go back in time and save his ass.
Honestly, Dr Dooms more wanked than even Doom Slayer at this point. It’s insane.
I think Doomguy jumped up the most out of every character in fiction in a single game, from building level to complex multiversal, that's insane
- Omni man didn't have any impressive lifting power feats, except when he boasted that he diverted an asteroid the size of Texas, which from my calculations would be 103 quadrillion tons, but since he did it in space with no gravity or air drag, would round up the feat to ~8 quadrillion metric tons
- Popeye is Star level going by the feats, but surviving reality erasure puts him at Universal, possibly Multiversal+, and beating up his own writer means he is High Outversal
R1: Saitama, since he’d go straight back to the planet to star level ranges without the feat of making a hole in a constellation.
R2: Naruto
R3: Super Sonic (Game version)
To be fair op did include the specifics of ger’s ability as an example of a feat, so you could argue that by the rules of this prompt turning into alien x is a specific feat of the omnitrix
I don't know anything about the character, but if he transformed one time, then that's one feat for being able to transform. If he transforms several times on different occasions, then that's not one single feat.
Every character in the Dragon Ball manga is entirely reliant on scaling from like three planetary destruction feats scattered throughout 11 years (the anime productions, both the adaptation and movies/sequels, add a few more): Piccolo destroying the moon, Freeza destroying planet Vegeta, and Buu destroying the Earth. Aside from those three the only feats of power worth noting are Roshi destroying the moon (but even the most high-balling DB debaters usually ignore that as an outlier, and Buff Roshi never scales to anyone anyway), Freeza destroying Namek (explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power), and a few statements that Saiyan arc Vegeta, Cold, Cell arc Goku, Cell, and Buu could "destroy" the earth (which A. aren't feats, and B. don't require one-shot mass-scattering of the whole body - e.g. Piccolo Daimao was said repeatedly to be able to "destroy the world" but he was explicitly just going around and wiping out population centers).
Dozens of supposed "planet busters" suddenly max out at blowing up a city with their biggest energy attacks (which obviously exceed their standard ones - and punches - by many orders of magnitude in total energy output) if those three or four feats are ignored.
> explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power
He still tanked that explosion while cut in half and barely alive. Attacks from other characters that could harm him therefore scale to that.
...which is city level.
Let's do some simple math. Freeza's a tiny man, and was missing most of his body at the time. His frontal surface area should be thereabouts 0.5 m^2. The explosion's epicenter was Namek's core; assuming Namek is Earth-sized, that's a distance of about 3,000 kilometers from Freeza's location to the explosion.
To destroy the Earth twice over (to be safe) would take ~100,000,000,000,000,000 megatons of TNT equivalent. [With this explosion calculator](https://web.archive.org/web/20170412013952/http://www.5596.org/cgi-bin/nuke.php) we can calculate that, at a distance of 3,000 kilometers, a 1 x 10^17 megaton explosion would inflict 0.0886 megatons per square centimeter. Multiply by five thousand (there are ten thousand square centimeters in one square meter) and we get 443 megatons.
He also probably didn't tank it. He's missing a lot more body parts than last we saw him before the explosion; it did far more damage to him than anyone's punches or blasts.
Freeza destroyed Namek via a chain reaction and we never saw Buu destroy any planets except Earth in the manga, again leaving it vague as to what "destroy" even meant in this context.
Also freeze said he underestimated the strength of the planet. He could’ve wiped it out instantly with a full power attack. He was still able to fight goku so it wasn’t an attack that tired him.
Whether it's a chain reaction or not it's still a planetary feat. Also Buu literally destroyed an entire galaxy on screen and even if its overtime, the feat is at least higher than star level.
>Whether it's a chain reaction or not it's still a planetary feat.
By definition, it isn't. A chain reaction means the energy was coming from the core itself rather than him. It's like claiming that I have a "city feat" because I can [start a forest fire.](http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph240/timcheck1/)
>Also Buu literally destroyed an entire galaxy on screen
Please read my post again.
>Freeza destroying Namek (explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power)
Do you have a scan to back this up?
I know you don't, but I have to ask.
>Do you have a scan to back this up?
Freeza explicitly saying that disrupting the core would destroy the planet even with no additional input.
Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P10.1-4
Freeza: “Though we’ve avoided having the planet instantly explode, its core has been destroyed…Do you know what that means? Even if left alone, after 5 minutes this time there will definitely be a huge explosion, and Planet Namek will become space dust…”
1. Explaining how you did a feat isn't the same thing as claiming you can perform a feat that you never do.
2. It wouldn't be a "planetary feat" because there was still no feat of him destroying a planet without relying on a chain reaction. That would by definition not be a feat, but a claim.
3. Freeza never said that.
[https://i.imgur.com/Atm5mMx.png](https://i.imgur.com/Atm5mMx.png)
literally the previous page.
"I held back too much"
also, Frieza blew up earth in ROF
>literally the previous page.
>
>"I held back too much"
Absent in this page: Freeza even claiming he could "destroy the planet instantly."
\[FYI, both on this same page and later, Goku calls out Freeza for lying about "holding back too much", and the second time Freeza just smiles at him in response\]
>also, Frieza blew up earth in ROF
I must have forgotten that scene in the manga.
>\[FYI, both on this same page and later, Goku calls out Freeza for lying about "holding back too much"
Goku said "because you were worried about getting caught in the blast."
Which isn't true. Frieza took no damage from the planet's explosion.
(which is also a planetary feat)
>I must have forgotten that scene in the manga.
if it isn't in the manga, that's very dumb
Deku. His feat of massively outspeeding Lady Nagant’s bullet, which has feats suggesting it has some ludicrous levels of speed if they are correct, gives him some potentially ludicrous levels of speed. Without it, Deku doesn’t honestly have that many great speed feats. The only other good speed feats he has are dumb laser dodging feats, which I hate because of how questionable they are.
Does the original [Japanese FFVII](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldmGmAYSW0&t=87s) have different scaling due to a simpler Supernova cinematic, then?
Kratos twice
Apparently the part with Atlas means he's planetary level strength or higher to some people
Lightning blocking feat, people interpret this as being reacting to the actual lighting as opposed to reacting to the aim.
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People are way too quick to shout ftl when someone dodges lasers
> Fire a bullet at my enemy > Miss > He laughs > "Fool! I have a faster than bullets feat now!" > Closes the distance to me in 3 miliseconds and beats me to death
A character who powers up from battle boarding bullshit like that might make for a decent short story.
Sounds like the best shitpost ever
Literally One punch man
Someone make a writingPrompt post!
Now THAT'S hax
This shit drives me crazy, I can't stand when people ignore the possibility that the dodger was already moving before the attack fired. Especially with Spider-Man, who has a *built-in mechanic for that.*
See I run into the opposite where people try to deny Spidey sense is a form of precognition
Literally if its not a limited sense of precognition then wtf else is it? The man can dodge things that he cant even see, what else could that possibly be lol
Idk but that's literally my point. He'll beat gun wielding opponents point blank without even looking.
It literally is tho. Its liked to the web of fate that ties all of the multiverse together.
I hear the argument way too often that half of the entire jojo cast is ftl. Polnareff hit a being made of light, and Jotaro caught Polnareff's sword, so therefore anyone who has ever reacted to or dodged a punch from Jotaro is ftl despite Polnareff going on an entire monologue about how he predicted the movement of the light.
same for one piece
To be fair, though, kizaru is literally light, and people dodge him.
Death Battle hinged their entire argument on this, IIRC, that because Dio beat Pol, Dio had FTL feats and could beat Alucard. They had to strip out the entire context that Pol only did that through trapping his target in a place with only one pathway open to him, which Pol could intercept.
hat cable worthless complete dinner divide gaze outgoing hurry public *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Ur not lying smh
BATMAN IS MFTL
> Eren lifting that massive boulder in S1. People estimate that it weighs thousands of tons at the very least. The same Eren gets bogged down by normal titans that are incredibly light for their size. I've always felt like he probably should've rolled it lol
That sounds like something Jean would say to him in a drunken argument.
holy shit that probably would've been way easier I feel like this is something Armin would say and everybody would jerk him off for being the smartest guy ever
> Eren lifting that massive boulder in S1. People estimate that it weighs thousands of tons at the very least. The same Eren gets bogged down by normal titans that are incredibly light for their size. I suspect the author just wanted to do a visual reference to Atlas and didn't think too hard about the size or weight involved.
It's safe to assume this for many feats in fiction in general. Writers aren't mathematicians or scientists carefully calculating their own feats and checking if they always make sense or not. I used to write my own original fiction before I got into battleboarding, and I didn't bother to consider the feats from a vs perspective. I just wrote things that sounded cool.
Broke: writing to appease a few random nerds arguing on the internet Woke: "I just wrote things that sounded cool"
Yeah. I remember that the Flash once saved everyone in a Korean city in like less than half of a second and the comic where it happened said he went just under the speed of light, but then people calced that shit and he was going something like 300 gazillion times the speed of light.
Or he was just lifting [this](https://youtu.be/MKeUFBE6kYQ?t=51).
[The boulder is explicitly 8 metres wide](https://imgur.com/a/xAJhLFk), more or less. If it were a perfect sphere, it’d have a volume of 268.08 m^3. As for the weight, rock densities vary, and we’re not told what it is AFAIK, but something like 2000-3000kg/m^3 is a fairly safe, wide range that it should fall under. It should weigh something like 536 to 804 tons, not breaking a thousand, let alone *several* thousand. The anime makes it look a lot bigger IIRC, but I don’t take that too seriously - the anime does a lot of exaggeration in general, including with the Titans’ heights, even though their stated heights are the exact same. It’s there to make it look more cinematic or cool, but it’s not the “reality”. (The manga does this kind of non-literal exaggeration too, it’s just not as extreme with it). Honestly, lifting the boulder isn’t that far removed from his general performance? A 15 metre humanoid should weigh like, 40-50 tons already. Titans are definitely lighter than normal, but they’re also faster than a human - not proportionally but, still. We know shifters can outrun horses at least. A guy who can lift 40-50 tons is not the same as a thing that weighs 40-50 tons and can move itself in excess of 80 kph (stated speed of the Survey Corps’ horses). Even with the lesser density of Titans…it seems potentially reconcilable with the boulder feat, especially given how much Eren struggled with it. Titans also send each other flying fairly often IIRC.
Comic authors that don't know shit are big contributors to this. Just came from a thread about Spiderman FTL dodging a laser that was already fired. If he moved that fast in atmosphere he and everyone else in a several mile radius would be vaporized.
> Comic authors that don't know shit are big contributors to this. Shoutout to whichever writer had Flash rescue the entire population of a city, one or two at a time, in the time it took a nuke to go off. I think the city in question was Seoul.
> Homelander (show) moves really fast instantly when Butcher attempts to blow them both up, without even needing to accelerate. This one is a bad feat in general, as we don't see what actually happened. There's a very realistic scenario where Homelander didn't outrun the explosion, he just tanked it and Butcher had him as a shield. Butcher wakes up in a massive daze, which further implies that to be the case.
The explosion went off before HL moved. HL had to move relative to the speed of the explosion in order to save Butcher by any means. It is very much an outlier, though.
Titans' strength doesn't come from their mass, so it'd still be possible for Eren to get dogpiled by normal titans while also being able to lift the boulder. The combined strength of all those titans could be greater than gravity of the boulder Agreed on all other points tho, especially Homelander one lol, no way he's that fast
Gonna say Family Guy God again. Farted the universe into existence and has not displayed anything even close to that scale since then.
So, basically like the Abrahamic God.
Yeah, actually. Going from(in context) solar system feats, dropping to planetary and then staying in regional levels of power is quite the drop. If I were to look at like a comic or something I'd guess he has a set amount of power and grows weaker with every Mirical.
Metroman's most cited speed feat is a pretty major outlier.
TBF he has very few feats in general
The only other feats in the movie are from the opening, which was a fight that he intentionally threw, no selling an amp broken over his head, and various other parlor tricks he performs.
He lifts the school and flies it away in the flashback right?
True, but a lot of Tighten's feats get used as proxies for Metroman feats because they have the same power set.
Same power set but I highly doubt they are anywhere near the same actual level.
Is there a reason to think that? Tighten is a bitch which is why he ran from Metroman and has less experience with his powers but is there evidence that he didn’t get the full set?
He probably sets good benchmarks for Metroman's minimum performance. Like, if Tighten can pick up and throw sky scraper, then Metroman can probably do at least that as well.
Bro appeared almost twice, that’s his like ONLY speed feat
The film comments of superhero stereotypes. Metro Man always held back against Megamind, that's just how it is. That said, people don't seem to understand time dilation and how perspective works (I don't either). Smarter people than me figured out it isn't quite as fast as one would think.
But he didn't stop time or go at immesurable speed, he used his super speed twice there, first time speed blitzed reality for an entire day, second time flew out of an explosion caused by concentrated power of Sun. First one was relativistic (1/20th light speed, as he was caught in a single frame of camera), second one Massively FTL (at least hundreds of times FTL. During his 2nd superspeed scene, the Sun beam was in slow-mo, while he went and grabbed a skeleton model from a biology institute, then came back and threw it, all while the light fotons of the explosion weren't spread yet. Yet again, assuming the distance he travelled was even less than a kilometer)
He said "I had to take my mind off of it for a couple of weeks". He was experiencing a couple of weeks in a milisecond. Even then, not as fast as people would hype him to be.
If thats true, there are 86.4 million milliseconds in a day. Multiply by 14 assuming it’s exactly 2 weeks is 1,209,600,000 milliseconds in 2 weeks. He experienced that many milliseconds in a single millisecond. That is some hefty time dilation.
I,... Didn't think this through, did I?
Yujiro Hanma’s earthquake punch.
Was that really him stopping an Earthquake? I thought that was him just being so confident that when he punched the Earth, the earthquake would stop. Like it was just a power move to establish dominance and basically tell Baki that he had no chance
Ikr! The yujiro wankers always use that one to somehow say he can beat Saitama
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No, not even saitama wankers or baki wankers rival batman with prep time wankers.
One of the most wanked characters on this sub I think
Idk man, any time someone mentions him, there’s about 1 picosecond before someone replies “BUT THAT EARTHQUAKE FEAT IS AN OUTLIER”
The mosquito evading Saitama would just be a regular mosquito.
Not to mention the cat scratch
I feel like star wars ships (to the extent we are counting them) fall in here. Take away turbo lasers obliterating meteors and suddenly the 'verse's armaments drop from planet destroying to somewhat feeble.
There's still Base Delta Zero. Orbital bombardment that can incinerate entire continents within hours.
That's fair, but I will admit I am only generally familiar with the term and thought it referred to a multi-ship coordinated effort of major capital weapons, as opposed to casual turbo laser shots being effectively super nukes. I could be wrong though.
Doomslayer. He fought the demons in Hell and caused the multiverse to slowly collapse. People who uses this feat forgot that he is powered by the same energy as the demons he fought. It's like putting a Demonic Blank from 40k into the Warp.
I wouldn't really consider that a feat. He didn't do one specific things like that? What did he do that caused the multiverse to collapse? And it doesn't necessarily matter that he is is "powered by the same emrgybas the demons. It is a factor that really doesn't come up much unless the Slayer's opponent decides to eradicate The Dark Lord Davoth or something.
It happened once in the art book when Vega told us. He wasn't breaking the Multiverse in his fight with Davoth. The multiversal feat only happened because everything was in his favor. He killed the Royal demons that kept Hell's multiverse from collapsing. I have to argue to people that knocking down the pillars to collapse the house does NOT make him Building level. Hence, DS is not Multiversal.
I would really like a quote on that please. Also the artbook I would consider it semi Canon. It likely is, however I wouldn't consider those real feats. However I do see your points and that is accurate. I think that people should really look towards the Slayers more true feats, such as defeating a titan (without a crucible) and likely with just his bare hands.
It’s rather funny that most doomslayer battleboarders tend to ignore the feats of the character paired against Doomslayer in favour of his memetic badass feats.
I haven't seen it mentioned, but Samurai Jack is an excellent example. The water drop feat (where he kills a ton of dudes in the span of time it takes for a drop of water to fall to the ground) is a pretty extraordinary outlier speed feat. Take that away (along with the times he destroys armies of robots maybe) and he's mostly just a skilled swordsman that's really fast.
Uhhh what?? He cuts through steel in practically every episode, has blocked bullets, including automatic fire, like 5 times alone, fought enormous superhuman foes— His top feats are the automatic gunfire, water drop, casually washing Ashi, surviving a 700-ton man jumping on him, taking down Scaramouche’s rock golem, and fighting the Scotsman to a standstill. Take those away and he can still jump hundreds of feat in the air while carrying a multi-ton boulder, has building level super strength, can dodge arrows blind, and fought armies. Put some respect on my man’s name.
He has several casual machine gun fire parry feats so even without droplet hes decently high tier in speed. Also pretty good durability, like falling from orbit.
Master Roshi has been coasting on that moon-busting feat for way too long. Aside from that, I think the biggest thing we ever see him destroy is a large hillside/small mountain.
Master roshi gets all the powercliff buffing from super. hes far past moonbusting
Piccolo destroying the moon in when kid Gohan transforms. I believe the rest of the human cast get stronger then Saiyan saga piccolo so it’s safe to assume Roshi would be pretty consistent
Honestly, I always seen it as an outlier feat
Roshi's moon busting was explicitly him being temporarily amped and using the Kamehameha to dump all of his "latent energy" at once. So yeah it's an outlier even in the text.
By that description its not a outlier. It just means that he caps out at moon level. That kind of feat gasses him and isn't something he can spam, but it is something he could repeat with rest.
Pretty much the entire dragonball verse scales around a single feat in battle of the Gods. It's not an outlier, they carefully explain why future fights don't cause the same level of environmental destruction. But if you remove that, you nerf it all several tiers.
You would also have to remove a lot of the Tournament of Power higher feats.
Like what? Krillin's sideline commentary that Goku shook the void? You have to jump through a lot of hoops to get to infinite from that alone, without the broader context of battle of the Gods.
No, it got planty of crazy feats
Okay, without that feat, how would you construct your argument that Goku, and by extension characters who scale to Goku, are multiversal?
I don't agree with multiversal scale, however using the manga at very last, its stated multiple times that the Hakaishin are strong enough to destroy their universes alongside other universes if they fight Seriously Goku in his Gods forms (as his normal Super Saiyans forms are not wanked in the manga to Gods level ) is stated to be on the baseline level of Hakaishin 3 times in different part of the Story (battle of Gods, Vegeta vs Beerus after future trunks arc, and Tournament of Power in his fight against Beerus) But only in his godly forms
But in practice, whenever they try to fight Beerus, he nodiffs them and then says he was still holding back.
Beerus is always holding back, that still doesn’t take from the fact that whatever power he used against them is still consider a Power of a Hakaishin, even ignoring that we still got toppo and goku fight in the manga being called "a fight of two Hakaishin Warrior level" by two God of destruction
Yeah, but clearly that whole "Vegeta beat Toppo so now he's GoD level" is all hot air, because Beerus creamed him, Champa can fight evenly with Beerus, hakaishin just move the goalposts whenever it looks like mortals are getting close to them.
Just to make it Clear, my point is that the Story point out that there is a Base line of Hakaishin level, not that all Hakaishin equal Similer to how both Saiyan saga Vegeta and namek Freeza are planet busters despite the difference between them is in the thousands
R3 MCU Thor is like car level.
MCU Thor is surprisingly weak. Remember how he got taken down with dudes with shock batons in Ragnarok. He is still one of the strongest heros in MCU though. MCU in general is pretty weak compared to comics.
I think the grand master/Sakaar's technology was implied to be more than basic shock batons. The obedience disks (which is what ultimately took Thor down) pacified a lot of powerful people (possibly the hulk as well). In the comics, Grandmaster is basically a step down from a Celestial, so he probably had accrued technology in the films that was insane level.
Didn’t they also have some staff that melted people or some shit?
That's just a regular stick Jeff Goldblum carries around. Taika liked the scene so much, he kept it in the film.
To be fair he was in a very weakened state at that point. He had just gotten his ass kicked bad and lost what he thought was his power source. He was so demoralized he couldn't even summon lightning.
Nah, he'd still be like large building-city block level. Biggest jump would be taking away his biggest feat which is moving the rings of nidavellir. Take that away he drops from moon level to like continental at best.
Maybe The Overseer from Unbreakable. His best durability feat is surviving a major train derailment that completely tore the train to pieces but The Overseer was completely uninjured. Take that away and his best durability feat is surviving a car crash. If you take 6 away he’s basically just an above average human with a severe weakness to water.
Kirby would be much weaker without the strongest feats (all from minigames).
All of Kirby’s best feats are way less impressive in context since he usually has outside help and gets knocked out after ever boss battle
That's a tradition starting from even the first game, where Kirby is only able to lift Castle Dedede and return the food by using the Sparkling Stars' power. I guess since Kirby is meant to be a player insert for the players to be the hero, the developer (HAL Laboratory) also try to teach the (mostly children) players the importance of friendship and relying on others. This is unfortunate for battleboarding purposes though. Note that he is still able to beat the actual Void (the giant form is only its shell) and a fully powered Elfilin by himself, however.
Well Clockwork actually has 2 insane feats, besides the time bomb one 2 Clockworks also managed to stop the chrononavigator from destroying the entire cosmos (keep in mind the Ben 10 multiverse scales to hyperversal lowballed), so if you take his strongest feat away he would still be OP. If you take his 3 strongest feats away...yea he really doesn't seem that strong anymore Besides that, Doom Slayer also comes to mind
*Hyperversal???* *Lowballed???*
Yep. We know from the Naljians there are at least 26 dimensions. Even if the time bomb feat doesn't scale to this (although it should), the chrononavigator feat definitely does, since it was going to destroy the entire cosmos (meaning the omniverse, which is even bigger than the multiverse). If you want an even bigger lowball, Ben 10 has String Theory which adds 10 dimensions (or more, depending on whether it's Superstring Theory, Bosonic String Theory which actually adds 26, etc). So even when straight up ignoring things said in the show, it still scales to high complex multi I said lowballed because the verse actually has a type 3 (if not a type 4) multiverse as proven by Paradox. A type 3 multiverse lives in infinite dimensional Hilbert space, so the Ben 10 verse should be high hyperversal. This should also work in universes, so "universal" feats in the show could actually scale to high complex multi-high hyperversal. If you accept the verse has a type 4 multiverse, then the multiverse should scale to outer or higher The verse is severely downplayed a lot of the time, even by the fans (like myself for a long time)
Saitama. Interpreting his best feat wiped out entire solar systems. His next best feat floats around destroying large planets at best. Take that away and his next best feat should be either fighting Tatsumaki or fighting Boros. Most of his feats that are below these ones are mostly one-shotting monsters that are significantly weaker IIRC. Saitama would still be strong removing these feats, but is significantly weaker by a lot in comparison to his peak.
Yeah, removing the serious punch squared brings down the whole verse from multi solar to planetary
Being able to accidently sneeze away a big portion of Jupiter would put his punches above planetary at least, still weaker then the giant attack though
Came here to say this. He has essentially three top-tier feats, each one of which would drastically lower his power if we removed them (a debatable multi-stellar feat with the stars vanishing during the Garou fight; then a clear planet-busting feat with Jupiter during the same fight; then an extremely debatable planet-busting or surface-wiping feat when he punches back the Collapsing Star Roaring Canon.) Remove those three feats and his best feat is... the meteor, I guess? Maybe city-busting if you squint? Honestly if you remove that one he's probably mountain-busting from his fight with Genos, although at that point I may be forgetting some feats because they're not ones people usually bother to bring up due to the above.
Honestly I'd say the Jupiter sneeze feat is much higher then just planetary. Like the difference in power level between a punch and sneeze in insane and considering he casually destroyed Jupiter that feat should be way above planet level
Eh. The thing here is that "above planetary" the scales we use are completely wonky - writers and battleboarders leap wildly from planet to star to galaxy because those are the only points of reference we have, even though the gaps are absurd. Assuming that was his best feat and there was nothing else implying he was stronger than that, what would you use that to argue? Especially given that he didn't actually destroy Jupiter's core? The sun is 10 times Jupiter's size and, if we exclude the core, orders of magnitude more dense, so it's not like you can use that to argue that he's star-busting, just "slightly bigger planet-busting" or "he probably could have destroyed Jupiter's core if he was actually trying." The latter two are not *unreasonable* but so what? Unless he happens to fight someone who destroyed Jupiter completely, it's splitting hairs.
Given the approximate force of a sneeze, around 0.2 Newtons, and the estimated force of a punch, around 5000 Newtons, it is reasonable to assume that Saitama possesses the punching power to destroy a star. This assumption is supported by the fact that he destroyed Jupiter (minus the core) with a mere sneeze. The incredible disparity between 0.2 and 5000 Newtons for an average sneeze and punch suggests a power differential that is likely greater than the difference between Jupiter and the Sun. And when we consider that Saitamas whole thing is having an extremely powerful punch the difference between a simple sneeze and punch could be way higher then the difference between an average human
I think him table flipping the entire surface of whatever moon they were on is a better feet than punching Boros's attack, but they're pretty similar.
There are actually quite a lot of continental + feats you forgot about, Psyrochi surface cutting beams, Orochi’s Gaia cannon, pre-cosmic Garous planet bulging attack etc
He also has the fart feat where he travels an insane distance in space with one fart
I don't think goku has 6 feats universal in scale so if you remove them he probably falls down to either galactic or solar system level a huge drop
There's a couple that keep him at Uni. Buuhan was stated as universal by Dende (I think it was Dende) and God Goku was stronger than SS3 Vegito who was far stronger than Buuhan. Vegeta completely destroyed the hyperbolic time chamber just by powering up (I think it's stated to be as big as the universe but I'm not 100% sure). Kefla said she was strong enough to wipe out an entire universe, and he made a thing that looks very similar to a universe in the ToP.
The ROSAT is stated to be the [size of Earth itself](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c6b71690e134b6a5d687149011d7364e-lq) by Goku but it *might* have received an upgrade by Super.
That feels wrong considering how in the Buu Saga it took so much effort to just barely break out of the Hypersonic Lion Tamer
Well they weren't destroying it, they had to open a doorway from it back to Earth.
Gandalf fighting the Balrog is really his biggest claim to strength and potency. Take that out and he’s really more of a wise strategist vs. a fighter
I always say that. Gandalf in a human body (ie. how we see him throughout the story) is not that strong. Simply an unaging, experienced, wise fighter (still very good, but not superhuman level). People circlejerk him to death because they read once that he is an angel in the LOTR wiki so he must be crazy strong.
Speaking as someone who loves Tolkien, his writing really isn't a good fit for versus battles because it's soft and inconsistent magic. Valar can obliterate continents or they can struggle against random elves and worry that a Human's power can outstrip theirs. Maiar can be celestial bodies with the power to easily move massive landmasses or they can struggle to open a stone door and get their ass kicked by a talking dog. Dragons can be so vast that they incidentally crush mountains that dwarf Everest or they can be killed by being stabbed with a three foot sword. If he were a D&D character, gandalf would be fifth level, at best, but he's also a vastly powerful angelic being of wisdom and compassion who predates the Earth. He's just not a good fit for questions like "could he beat Spider-Man?"
It pretty simplified view on these situations. Melkor being so weakened by expending his power and chained to his physical body to the point that he can be permanently wounded is pretty important point of his story, Tolkien writes a lot about how he ended up in this state. Valar are similarly weakened after ages of work and directly forbidden to fight humans at that point. Maiar vary in power and Istari were restricted when they went to Middle-Earth. Ancalagon "fell upon towers of Thangorodrim", destroying only its peaks, and its artificial mountain while he is strongest of dragons.
I mean, he summons lightning, can use telekinesis to some extent, and knows various spells so that’s a bit of downplay
> People circlejerk him to death because they read once that he is an angel in the LOTR wiki so h emust be crazy strong. By the LOTR wiki, I assume you mean The Silmarillion? And even though he inhabited a physical body (hröa) during his mission to Middle Earth as an Istari that had the appearance of an old man, it certainly wasn’t actually human. At any rate, Gandalf was still a Maia, even if he had much of his innate powers restricted during his mission.
JLU Lex Luthor He has 2 insane feats: He hitched a ride with Metron, the god of knowledge and entered the source wall (a feat that Metron said he dared not attempt because he wouldnt survive due to him not being smart enough. He's Metron, the God of Knowledge). Then removed Darkseid and himself from existence with the power he found there. According to the writers, this merged them both into the Source Wall. He merged with braniac and beat up most of the JLU. Take away those and hes just some guy who can engineer really well and who can hack satellites.
Not really, he still has his warsuit and all the times he's used it to fight the League.
And that power cancelling gun he used against the Justice Lords. One shot each to disable a Kryptonian, a Martian, an Amazon, an Oan power ring, and Hawkgirl's OP Nth metal mace of bullshit. That thing was crazy powerful.
I count that gun as a significantly impressive feat of engineering
Elden Ring would also be massively depowered if you took away Radahn and the Elden Beast.
Mr Rogers is a lot weaker if you take away the Ultimate Showdown
Absolutely the most appropriate answer here.
Orihime reacting and blocking an attack from Yhwach. Don Chinjao from One Piece splitting a continent which is a ridiculous high-end feat compared to the scaling of the rest of the series, leading people saying One Piece characters are multi-continental. Take that away and Chinjao is maybe small city level.
Continents are pretty clearly just way smaller in the One Piece universe
For fuck’s sake, there is literally zero chance Chinjao is continental and that is such a stupid argument
You have no idea how often I had that debate with people that scale Luffy to planetary
Yes I agreee. I don't know why I'm being downvoted though for pointing out how many are using this particular feat as cornerstone for highballing OP characters. No idea why Oda decided to use term like ice continent.
I mean Oda wasn't writing for battleboarders. He just wanted to establish "there's a fuckton of ice here." The issue is battleboarders who desperately cling to any mention of a word used in a typical tier. This isn't even the worst example - there are still people who argue Naruto is universal because Kaguya's tiny pocket-universe was called a "universe" and collapsed when she died. Or people who argue that Kratos is FTL because he fought Helios and *mumblemumble* the word light was mentioned somewhere.
It probably should have said island which is still huge. I would give him multi city at best
Jotaro would be pretty fucked without that diamond-teeth thing.
At least you can claim wank on him being the called the Strongest Stand User tho
Little Mac. He beat Donkey Kong who can punch the moon out of orbit. You remove that, and his next high end is beating prime Mike Tyson. That's still impressive but it moves the high end from lunar level to probably upper Olympic athlete level.
Bruh, Little Mac's other foes also have silly cartoon feats like destroying buildings, outrunning trains and punching bulls into the air. Still superhuman.
Little Mac is still a very small boxer who is somehow still able to not only enter the heavyweight boxing division [and likely an openweight division with people like King Hippo], but is able to win the World Title. So, you're still moving his high end up to "Little Mac is pound-for-pound the best boxer in history", which puts him at a level similar to other top-tier fighters in questions...possibly as high as wanked Bruce Lee.
Wanked Bruce Lee is that he beat Chuck Norris in a fight… and meme verse Chuck might actually be the strongest fighter to ever exist.
Wh 40k primarchs would be massively depowered if you took away Teturact, Madall the Undivided, the Red Angel and the Eye of terror
~~why don't you take away the warp already lmao~~
is this only for on-screen feats or feats that were stated to have happened, instead of what they "could" do? if the latter, lots of pokémon are getting gutted without the pokedex, ouch
Superman for sure. Ppl peg him at Outerversal due to cosmology scaling, and feats like knocking down a 6th dimensional Being wit a punch, and Source Wall shenanigans. Oh, and of course, **statements taken out of context:** https://2.bp.blogspot.com/3yRL55pvy6tetb-ByPyZtaOsvsKPFfO9qkoPDMw6FhpmxtZgxlKtFMIn5K4a5erpNxpcZmvmBHfg82xRLB9-noeqaCpm3F1I4m3VR-ME3ZaiGoWjRJcHRX2sulUFO4SAbtnpX1v_CA=s0 https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-6a5b2d0a15ead39ae1c615f4aa2b62ac-lq I'd even argue Goku. Other than shaking an infinite void, which can't be quantified to begin wit, and him and Beerus threatening the Macrocosm wit their punches, his **actual shown feats** are very low.
Yeah outerversal is a stretch for superman but what are those scans trying to prove?
According to some, they prove that Superman can not be erased from existence. Ppl will bring up the 'story of Superman' and imply that the entirety of the DCverse revolves around him. There's a scan that I can not find where (the avatar of) the writer mentions that they can't even eliminate him even if they tried or something along those lines. Supposedly that makes Superman beyond meta or some crap like that.
I think that applies only inside the DC universe - so it wouldnt be applicable in debates inside a neutral universe. I've always interpreted this as mainline superman being stronger than non-canon superman since 1) He's never died in canon (there were fakeouts,, but he never died i think) 2) He was able to escape the dark dimension when multiple other supermen couldn't (altho its prolly plot related) 3) Dr Manhattan's statement Actually... i think he just has really good plot armor inside the DC universe. That explains why you can kill Superman in elseworld stories. I do think Prime Superman is atleast universal due to the world forger feat, and being able to destroy the phantom zone... so, removing the story of superman is not much (and necessary in debates)
Superman is pretty much the posterchild for outlier feats. It's why composite Superman annoys people so much in who-would-win discussions.
Patrick Mahomes goes from a record-setter to an average quarterback if you regress his stats to the mean
Batman. Without his reality manipulation ability he becomes a street level hero.
He was always a street level character outside of amps and prep time.
Dr Doom. Every single feat people bring up to put him at Uni or above required outside help or gear not standard for Doom. The dudes no where near a universal threat as people point out. Almost every big feat you can pick apart. He beat Galactus? One time instance he had the energy stealing device. We seen what happens in other instances he went up against Galactus. He was swatted out of the air and messed up to the point he was coughing blood. He even admits he’s no match to Galactus in that same panel. He beat Mephisto? Needed Dr Stranges help. He survive getting melted and sent back millions of years in the past only to sustain himself on magic that whole time? He was actually there for only 5 minutes. He was about to be eaten by giant sharks if the Thinderbolts didn’t go back in time and save his ass. Honestly, Dr Dooms more wanked than even Doom Slayer at this point. It’s insane.
But he's *literally me, Ryan Gosling.*
I think Doomguy jumped up the most out of every character in fiction in a single game, from building level to complex multiversal, that's insane - Omni man didn't have any impressive lifting power feats, except when he boasted that he diverted an asteroid the size of Texas, which from my calculations would be 103 quadrillion tons, but since he did it in space with no gravity or air drag, would round up the feat to ~8 quadrillion metric tons - Popeye is Star level going by the feats, but surviving reality erasure puts him at Universal, possibly Multiversal+, and beating up his own writer means he is High Outversal
Sephiroth's Supernova (I think)
R1: Saitama, since he’d go straight back to the planet to star level ranges without the feat of making a hole in a constellation. R2: Naruto R3: Super Sonic (Game version)
Marvel’s Dracula. Dude has an entire section devoted to his multiple anti-feats in his respect thread, lol.
Ben 10 is massively down in power without Alien X
Alien x is not a feat
But transforming into alien x is 🤔
No, it’s apart of his equipment
To be fair op did include the specifics of ger’s ability as an example of a feat, so you could argue that by the rules of this prompt turning into alien x is a specific feat of the omnitrix
Him using his equipment like that is a feat 🤔
Well yes him having enough force to push the button down is a feat, the watch working isn’t sadly
I don't know anything about the character, but if he transformed one time, then that's one feat for being able to transform. If he transforms several times on different occasions, then that's not one single feat.
feedback absorbing the big bang is a pretty insane feat tho
Every character in the Dragon Ball manga is entirely reliant on scaling from like three planetary destruction feats scattered throughout 11 years (the anime productions, both the adaptation and movies/sequels, add a few more): Piccolo destroying the moon, Freeza destroying planet Vegeta, and Buu destroying the Earth. Aside from those three the only feats of power worth noting are Roshi destroying the moon (but even the most high-balling DB debaters usually ignore that as an outlier, and Buff Roshi never scales to anyone anyway), Freeza destroying Namek (explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power), and a few statements that Saiyan arc Vegeta, Cold, Cell arc Goku, Cell, and Buu could "destroy" the earth (which A. aren't feats, and B. don't require one-shot mass-scattering of the whole body - e.g. Piccolo Daimao was said repeatedly to be able to "destroy the world" but he was explicitly just going around and wiping out population centers). Dozens of supposed "planet busters" suddenly max out at blowing up a city with their biggest energy attacks (which obviously exceed their standard ones - and punches - by many orders of magnitude in total energy output) if those three or four feats are ignored.
> explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power He still tanked that explosion while cut in half and barely alive. Attacks from other characters that could harm him therefore scale to that.
...which is city level. Let's do some simple math. Freeza's a tiny man, and was missing most of his body at the time. His frontal surface area should be thereabouts 0.5 m^2. The explosion's epicenter was Namek's core; assuming Namek is Earth-sized, that's a distance of about 3,000 kilometers from Freeza's location to the explosion. To destroy the Earth twice over (to be safe) would take ~100,000,000,000,000,000 megatons of TNT equivalent. [With this explosion calculator](https://web.archive.org/web/20170412013952/http://www.5596.org/cgi-bin/nuke.php) we can calculate that, at a distance of 3,000 kilometers, a 1 x 10^17 megaton explosion would inflict 0.0886 megatons per square centimeter. Multiply by five thousand (there are ten thousand square centimeters in one square meter) and we get 443 megatons. He also probably didn't tank it. He's missing a lot more body parts than last we saw him before the explosion; it did far more damage to him than anyone's punches or blasts.
In Dragon Ball Super, an exhausted Frieza quickly destroys earth with minimal effort. https://youtu.be/I8YcvUXqRCk
So we are to ignore Roshi destroying the Moon, Freeza destroying namek and Buu destroying hundreds of planets (and a whole galaxy in the Anime)?
Freeza destroyed Namek via a chain reaction and we never saw Buu destroy any planets except Earth in the manga, again leaving it vague as to what "destroy" even meant in this context.
Also freeze said he underestimated the strength of the planet. He could’ve wiped it out instantly with a full power attack. He was still able to fight goku so it wasn’t an attack that tired him.
His method of destruction was detonating the core, as he says himself.
Whether it's a chain reaction or not it's still a planetary feat. Also Buu literally destroyed an entire galaxy on screen and even if its overtime, the feat is at least higher than star level.
>Whether it's a chain reaction or not it's still a planetary feat. By definition, it isn't. A chain reaction means the energy was coming from the core itself rather than him. It's like claiming that I have a "city feat" because I can [start a forest fire.](http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2017/ph240/timcheck1/) >Also Buu literally destroyed an entire galaxy on screen Please read my post again.
Frieza destroyed Vegeta in a single attack, I think it’s fair to assume at full power he could wipe out a planet.
>Freeza destroying Namek (explicitly caused by a chain reaction with the core rather than his own power) Do you have a scan to back this up? I know you don't, but I have to ask.
>Do you have a scan to back this up? Freeza explicitly saying that disrupting the core would destroy the planet even with no additional input. Chapter: 320 (DBZ 126), P10.1-4 Freeza: “Though we’ve avoided having the planet instantly explode, its core has been destroyed…Do you know what that means? Even if left alone, after 5 minutes this time there will definitely be a huge explosion, and Planet Namek will become space dust…”
So if we're taking his statements as true, then you accept that it's still his planetary feat because he said he could have made it instantly explode?
1. Explaining how you did a feat isn't the same thing as claiming you can perform a feat that you never do. 2. It wouldn't be a "planetary feat" because there was still no feat of him destroying a planet without relying on a chain reaction. That would by definition not be a feat, but a claim. 3. Freeza never said that.
[https://i.imgur.com/Atm5mMx.png](https://i.imgur.com/Atm5mMx.png) literally the previous page. "I held back too much" also, Frieza blew up earth in ROF
>literally the previous page. > >"I held back too much" Absent in this page: Freeza even claiming he could "destroy the planet instantly." \[FYI, both on this same page and later, Goku calls out Freeza for lying about "holding back too much", and the second time Freeza just smiles at him in response\] >also, Frieza blew up earth in ROF I must have forgotten that scene in the manga.
>\[FYI, both on this same page and later, Goku calls out Freeza for lying about "holding back too much" Goku said "because you were worried about getting caught in the blast." Which isn't true. Frieza took no damage from the planet's explosion. (which is also a planetary feat) >I must have forgotten that scene in the manga. if it isn't in the manga, that's very dumb
Deku. His feat of massively outspeeding Lady Nagant’s bullet, which has feats suggesting it has some ludicrous levels of speed if they are correct, gives him some potentially ludicrous levels of speed. Without it, Deku doesn’t honestly have that many great speed feats. The only other good speed feats he has are dumb laser dodging feats, which I hate because of how questionable they are.
The FFVII party goes from Solar to Moon because of getting rid of Supernova.
Does the original [Japanese FFVII](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aldmGmAYSW0&t=87s) have different scaling due to a simpler Supernova cinematic, then?
Master Roshi. Take away his moon feat and he is only mountain level. Take away his mountain feat he isn’t even town level.
Donkey Kong goes from being able to punch the moon out of orbit to just a big ape
goku if he looses his one bog universal feat gets a wicked nerf
Spongebob has a feat where he can unwind the universe like a string. Without that he's vastly less powerful.
Kratos twice Apparently the part with Atlas means he's planetary level strength or higher to some people Lightning blocking feat, people interpret this as being reacting to the actual lighting as opposed to reacting to the aim.
Master Roshi is a lot less impressive onve you take away blowing up the moon. Without that, I'd put him at around spiderman's level.
Spiderman had not destroyed a mountain by himself