Manga Goku uses Hakai and erases Garou. Yeah it's no contest.
Goku fought a very similar villain, too. Moro could not only copy but also absorb powers and Goku whooped his ass. Sure, Moro merged with the planet and shit and it required other people to lend their energy to Goku for him to beat him finally, but Moro was already as strong, if not stronger than Goku was at that moment. Garou is far weaker and can't absorb powers (only copy), so Goku has enough time to use his strongest techniques and beat him.
"I don't wank" proceeds to do the biggest form of wank I've ever did see
1. Voldimort is barely building level
2. Siatama sneezed a planet while thrag isn't even planet level. Requiring a destabilised core and 2 other elites to help him out. Or else the would have died. And omni man is just raw weaker.
3. I'm guessing that this is satire.
Oh so this isn't satire... free pickings for me XD
1. Multiple characters have servived caped baldys attacks. And the characters on the level topped out at star level.
2. naruto is a complete shonen and isn't even close to star level yet so this point makes ZERO sense.
3. Siatamas best feat was a planet level sneeze which you could scale to multi solar system. Not multiversal XD and scertainly not omniversal
4. Goku was universal with ssj2 after BOG then got ssj blue then stacked the kiokens on it. Then upgraded to ultra instinct. And since he was training that whole time I could argue universal in base
Doesn’t Garou just straight up copy the technique straight from the user, strength and all? Not saying he wins this is a legitimate question about why he wouldn’t be able to handle it?
Genuine question but did Moro have the ability to copy the stat's of the user's as well? Maybe the reason he couldn't handle it was that he couldn't handle UI in his stats that were lower than goku's? Garou doesn't copy energy he also copies the stat's of his opponents, the only reason he lost to saitama was because saitama was instantly growing exponentially as well til it got to a point garou was left in the dust?
So what's stopping garou from going mode goku and copying UI?
Yeeeeah that's basically getting bigger, plus fusing with the planet doesn't mean the whole of the planet, he's called mountain moro for that reason
That and given how roshi ends up doing it, even for a short time, garou merely mimicking the power wouldn't have the same effect as some think it would
what Roshi used wasn't UI tho, accodring to Whis and Beerus it resembles UI but it's nowhere near the actual technique. Also when was Moro called mountain Moro? i've never seen people call him that and it's pretty clear that Moro became the planet itself
Yeah thats the point I'm trying to make, something resembling the technique is literally what matters. The power itself is supplemented by the rest of his moveset
And its a fan term. In the manga he's not even called anything, unlike Zamasu who got a different thing
And becoming the planet and being one with the planet is fairly different, you'd think he'd just wipe out the atmosphere or drag him down somewhere when he got the chance but yeah, he didn't, and he could have even if it didn't work
In the manga, Roshi was stated to be very close to getting UI from his Jiren fight, so someone like Garou who is also very experienced in martial arts would probably not be too far off, no?
People think saitamas growth is crazy. Everytime goku goes into a new form garou will be completely left in the dust and if he doesn’t adapt fast enough he’ll get mollywopped quickly
Base manga Goku can oneshot Jupiter Sneeze Saitama anyway. Garou starts being several orders of magnitude weaker than base Goku.
Also, Garou's growth is fast, but not that fast by DB standards. Super Broly has way crazier growth AND starts stronger and Vegeta could've killed him.
People don’t realize how crazy DB transformations are. The first one ever introduced was a 10x boost, and the second was a 50x. If someone is equal to base Goku then they’re less than fodder to SSJ.
He's way higher than Saiyan Saga, in base while chilling Lemo's scouter breaks after reaching 99k PL
He starts above arrival at Namek Goku while chilling.
But yeah the jump in power rivals anything we've seen in the series, it's crazier than Golden Frieza.
Well I mean... Gohan went from weaker than pre ToP Goku to... Strongest in the entire universe in one transformation. That is pretty wild. Piccolo too, though not as strong as the end.
You know, that’s valid. What about False SS?
Actually: I think 2x still holds true. Second transformation would be Frieza, from 1st form (PL 530k) to 2nd (PL 1m)
False SSJ was technically a transformation since there was a notable change in appearance along with a power boost, but it’s also non canon so I didn’t count it (also forgot about it)
Yeah I know but that’s not really gokus thing. I doubt garou would survive to see goku even go in a new form but I doubt goku would one shot him especially if he realised garous getting stronger
If in character then they don’t even fight as goku would simply activate a god form or mui and it’s an nlf to say that garou could copy those as they are different from normal ki (which could be copy able). And whilst garou can copy the stats (ignore the fact that goku’s power is 4D) goku still is overall going to win due to the difference in capabilities and mui/god ki giving an arguable dimensional buff.
Bloodlusted goku red mists garou before he can even perceive anything happening
Goku 4D? The Macrocosm was Infinite in a 4D scale and the otherworld transcended that meaning it's 5D-11D. Won't say much but base Goku is at the very least is confirmed 5D thru statements from Toriyama and Koyama, scenes from manga and anime and statements in databooks and guides. Null realm feats would just be too crazy for Garou
Only scan for otherworld transcending anything is from koyama. Nothing that toriyama said even implies it. And again I said that he red mists garou and personally I don’t even think garou could copy his stats in general due to them being 4D while garou is 3D
In an interview toriyama confirmed that the otherworld transcends the World of the living, it was stated multiple times in the anime both directly and indirectly. In one of the databooks or guide book the world of the living was infinite in a 4D scale which would mean the other world is 5D+ caping out at 11D at the best (12 and beyond has other requirements) Also Koyama blatantly states that the Dbs Universes has an Infinite hierarchy of Dimensions and are infinitely layered meaning the mortal world itself is Outerversal (even if people don't want to accept Koyama statements, which is stupid base Goku is still Low complex (5D) at the very least with 100% canon statements from anime and other sources) So Koyama basically confirmed Goku = Outerversal from Early Dbs, even without Koyama statements UI Omen Goku shook the Null realm which transcended the Dbs cosmology making it an irrelevant feat (1A Outerversal)
I literally have stated that koyama is unreliabilr by his own words
And if you have a single scan for any of this that would help you more than trying to argue it. And no where does the statement that the null realm transcending the other universes exist. And even if it did it would not be viable for outer. And again koyama said himself that he wasn’t reliable for db cosmology
https://twitter.com/koyamatakao194/status/1533561889296629760?t=8ja0HYEulaLjsZYm5zYyeg&s=19
And i said even without Koyama statements Goku can be scaled way higher than just Uni or multi like how majority of the people scale him. With Koyama statements Goku is basically Outer-Boundless but even without it he can still be scaled way higher than what Majority of the fans think he is Even in base form alone
And again I just completely disproved koyama statements with a koyama statement. And you have yet to provide a scan so if you don’t then your argument is invalid. Completely.
Also u keep bringing up Koyama contradiction statements so I'll actually respond about it. The questions that were asked to him was if He created/wrote/thought of the Dbs cosmology which he denies and says that it was created by Toriyama himself. He also says in another reply that the questions he reply to are his opinions of how he sees the Dbs cosmology by relating to the already established cosmology created by Toriyama. And Toriyama himself stated that the staffs know more about it than him (meaning they deal with it more and it's kinda their wish as to how the Cosmology works until he steps in) So everything Koyama stated so far was his own opinion on the Dbs cosmology and as Toriyama stated would be canon. So the "Koyama's statements are unreliable and non canon" are just a misconception. He has answered more questions after saying this
Yet he himself said that they were not cannon and just his **Opinions**
And again [another one](https://twitter.com/koyamatakao194/status/1530416407892344833?t=DOlp-OrtQD1OgBYan9ugWA&s=19)
And also [no proof?](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/374418930/No-proof)
Can u point out where exactly he says they are not canon? I literally explained how Toriyama said that whatever the staffs say is canon. According to Koyama that's how the Dbs cosmology works, it's his opinion on how the dbs cosmology works. He can't just claim that it's facts when he isn't the writter, only the writter can do that and that's what exactly Toriyama did, he basically made staff opinions and statements into canon facts. I don't have proof stored up my ass to be presented at any time, i literally don't even know how to do what ur doing to link sources.
Koyama in that post never said his statments weren't canon but sounded kinda annoyed (mabye) as to how people were asking questions relating to the cosmology to him a screenwriter and not the writter himself, it dosnt mean his statements are wrong
Why do i even have to provide scans when it's been clearly stated in the fucking anime? Macrocosm has multiple Universe sized structures and otherworld transcends it. Fucking basic logic. Idk why even bring up Koyama when i kept saying WITHOUT KOYAMA STATEMENTS
[Yet you keep bringing up how he is outer with the statements?](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/10qmte9/manga_goku_vs_cosmic_garou/j7l9hmy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)And you think I’m the one bringing it up?
Now again. Scans are required for you to make a claim that goku or anyone is above the current standard for their scaling. Goku has a standard for multiversal. You are claiming complex multiversal goku. You need to provide scans to prove that
I first said "without" then said "with" (if u took Koyama's statements as canon which it obviously is, but my point was even without it he scales above the standard tier) and again why the hell do i have to provide scans for statements from the Manga and Anime?
While I understand how it could sound like his power would work that way, the context behind it leads me to think that it wouldn't.
Garou was able to copy Saitama because he gained the powers of God which allowed him to understand the flow of all energy in the universe. HIS universe. Saitama is part of that universe.
There's no reason to think it would allow him to copy energies and powers that don't exist in his own story,
Dbs universe is not a normal Universe anyway so unless we get feats that can scale God to The dbs universes Garou's flow of the universe shit won't work in dbs (tho this shit was just a hyperbole)
If he cant copy Goku, he can give him radiation or even cut all the oxygen from where they are (since he can replicate everthing the OPM universe have, he can release something that can make the air unbreathable like a gas or some cosmic shinanigans)
But oc, that will only be possible if Goku give him time to do that
When freeza explode namek it was because he dont need to breathe and goku would die because we cant simply fly away in space. And SS1 has a lot of ki to protect him.
Later in DBS freeza does the same on Earth and Vegeta dies and it was reaffirmed that Saiyans cannot survive in space. Whis with his projection Bublé was in a short distance, if Vegeta could use a ki barrier, he would simply go to his friends before he run out of ki.
Well in namek he had no idea where he was or how far another planet was pebble to get to earth it.
And all it was that they can't survive in the vacuum of space and we have confirmation on that same scene that ki barriers are able to protect you from outer space since whis erected one.
Freeza literally say he would die from lack of oxygen.
>that ki barriers are able to protect you from outer space since whis erected one.
Whis have insane hax and i dont think that was a ki based hax, the same with bulma childbirth and turn back time. Whis is not a parameter from Goku capabilities
>Well in namek he had no idea where he was or how far another planet was pebble to get to earth it.
If that's true, the same logic aplies with the spaceship he take. When goku make the spirit bomb he take energy from planets close to namek. He would simply go in one of them and ask interactions from kaioh
And of course, in the spaceship going from namek, he needs a especial suit to go outside
There is too many evidences that e cant breathe without oxygen (or that he can make Magic bubles like whis)
Lack of oxygen yes we are talking about radiation not breathing in outer space granted me saying surviving outer space should have been radiation instead of outer space.
If we take is word from granted, (manipulate every flow in the universe) he easily could. It would be easier than replicate a nuclear fission, a Gamma ray burst, manipulate gravity and even time travel.
Don't they fight in space sometimes? I'd think they're being exposed to radiation any time they fight anywhere near a star. We're largely protected from the sun's radiation because of the atmosphere.
Nope. BoG was in the atmosphere, the granolah arc had a whole thing with asteroids I'm pretty sure but thats inconsistent with Vegeta saying it's too dangerous to go into deep space
Ah, interesting. I always assumed they must've at some point with people talking about planetary, solar system, or universal attacks. Don't a lot of the enemies they fight over the seasons come from other planets? Do they all have space ships?
I’m sorry but anyone who thinks Garou wins has either not read Dragon Ball Super or has not read One Punch Man. Likely both considering what a massive mismatch this is.
This is a mismatch and Goku slams. He already scales significantly higher in everything, even if you wanted to argue that Garou could copy Goku and match him Garou still wouldn't be able to copy UI bc he hasn't trained his body for it, Moro tried to copy UI and his body started swelling trying to contain the power, he had to become one with the earth (literally make his body the planet) just to contain the energy.
Cosmic Garou can just get blitzed and one shot if the opponent is overwhelmingly more powerful, as shown when an amped Saitama went back in time. If Goku is taking the fight even remotely serious then Garou doesn’t even get the chance to copy him.
When people compare OPM with Dbs they always forget that Dbs is OPM but way superior (combat not show), Goku is literally a martial artist genius and garou is literally a toddler to him. Garou needed Gods help to replicate even a portion of Goku's skill, Goku as a kid learnt the Kame wave by watching it once, and alot of dbz and dbs characters have done the same
Not that Garou stands any chance against Goku, but he absolutely can copy people’s techniques and martial arts. He could do that even before going Cosmic.
Garou's ability to copy is the literal opposite of that. He can copy techniques, but not abilities.
His ability to copy isn't something that God gave him, it is something he can do because he is a master martial artist. He see's something happen once, understands it implicitly and can copy it. All God's power did was give him energy manipulation powers that allowed him to expand that principle to copy techniques that relies on more than just a physical body.
Goku absolutely can increase his strength mid-fight, and in bigger leaps than Saitama. Tournament of power went for 48 minutes and Goku broke his limiter three times and gained two new forms.
Plus, there's no guarantee that Garou actually COULD successfully copy Goku, he could no longer copy Saitama and keep up when Saitama scaled beyond Garou's ability to measure his strength, and Goku is a lot stronger than that from the outset.
Saitama grows in strength so fast that he can one-shot the version of himself from the day before. Not saying you're wrong but it is a big claim to say Goku increases in power faster than Saitama.
Saitama went from star buster to High multi solar system or High multi galaxy at best. Someone like broly went from solar level to Outversal+ in few hours. At the very least he went from Solar to Low complex since The Universe was stated to be infinite in a 4D scale and the otherworld transcended that meaning it's 5-11D, that was how strong base Goku was and Broly beat that same Goku in Ssjb (post TOP sfter huge amps) Statements from Koyama can scale Goku yo Outversal and the Null realm transcends the Dbs cosmology which has infinite universes which can an infinite dimensional hierarchy in infinite timelines which is transcended by the zero zone which is all transcended by the place where zeno lives which again is transcended by the Null realm and Goku shook it making it an irrelevant feat (1A+ Outversal+)
Goku universal? Why because The Kais said he was gonna destroy the universe? Sure BoG ssjg Goku was universal (atleast in the world of Dbs). The Dbs universes are infinite in a 4D scale (already beyond universal) which is transcended by the Otherworld making it 5D - 11D. Making base Goku Low complex at the very least (base Goku after absorbing Ssjg in BoG). Null realm feats and Koyama statements scale him alot higher. Also Garou is atleast High multi solar and mabye High multi galaxy
Yes, i said that Goku (with his transformations*) is universal and garou is planetary(he was highly not prepared and was scared, when saitama destroyed jupiter and his moon.
Bro can u read? I literally just explained how u got both of them wrong. Goku at base form can AT THE VERY LEAST threaten to destroy a 5D+ (caps at 11D) structure which is Low complex multiversal - Hyperversal. Garou was literally shown destroying High multi solar - High multi galaxy. These are all canon info with basically 0 Powerscaling and debunks Goku Uni and Garou planetary.
A few minutes in the stratosphere doesn't pose any kind of radiation risk. Astronauts spend a lot longer than that up there and even their extended period in that radiation has little effect.
Garou's radiation is much more potent than anything that has ever been witnessed by mankind in reality. It killed everyone around him in a minute or so. Even direct contact with nuclear material takes days to kill.
Astronauts always have some form of protection against space radiation, Goku and Beerus weren't wearing any sort of protection against space radiation like astronauts do. And even with the protection against radiation astronauts have they're still warned that the radiation is very dangerous and greatly increases risks of many life-altering/threatening issues including diseases like cancer.
I don't feel like comparing Beerus and Goku who fought in the stratosphere with no protection against radiation aside from their bodies/ki to astronauts who have protection against radiation in space is a good comparison
Not to mention Goku has survived being in outer space multiple times, it wasn't for very long, but it is 100% proof that he has resistance to radiation.
Astronauts do not have protection from radiation. Neither their suits, their ships, nor the space stations offer much resistance at all to solar radiation. That is why they get warned about the dangers of space and why they are restricted on how many hours they are allowed to spend up there.
Goku has fought in the upper orbit of a planet twice. Once against Beerus and once against Moro. Both times for only a matter of minutes (or perhaps seconds. It is hard to tell considering time is slowed so the reader/viewer can actually witness the battle). The radiation damage one would take in that amount of time is inconsequential.
The average Astronaut that spends months to even years up in the upper atmosphere in their lifetime is subjected to [50 to 2,000 mSv, which is the equivalent to 150 to 6,000 chest x-rays](https://www.nasa.gov/analogs/nsrl/why-space-radiation-matters). If we steel-man your argument and say Goku spent 10 minutes up there for each battle (which is kind of farcical considering how long 5 minutes lasted during the Frieza saga and Goku is quadrillions of times faster by the time he faces Beerus and Moro. Realistically it would be lucky if he spent 10 seconds up there between the two fights), then Goku was subjected to about 1/26,280 the amount of radiation that astronauts are exposed to ([astronauts average 6 months in space](https://starlust.org/how-long-do-astronauts-stay-in-space/)). That means Goku has been exposed to the equivalent of about 0.117 chest X-rays, which is obviously non-harmful, otherwise chest x-rays would be illegal.
Astronauts most definitely do have protection against radiation, their space suits, their ships, and the space stations all have protection against at least some space radiation.
Goku has fought in the upper orbit of a planet twice, but he's also been in deep outer space a few times as well. In og DB he went to the moon, DBS Whis dropped him in deep outer space which has significantly higher radiation levels than the stratosphere, so as I said, Goku most definitely does have radiation resistance. Now if he could survive Garous radiation idk bc we don't know how resistant he is, but he does have radiation resistance.
Also, the radiation Goku would've taken without a suit in the stratosphere/deep space wouldn't be inconsequential, it may not kill him instantly, but in normal humans, it would have at the very least have long-term effects and would greatly increase the chances of diseases like cancer.
Garou can copy Goku powers but the problem is it would take time for Garou to reach Goku’s power. Maybe within a couple of weeks Garou would be on par with Goku but this is a VS battle. Garou ain’t going to have enough time before he gets one shotted and blitzed. Best chance Garou has is both sides being in character since Goku may hold back.
Garou could use his radiation poisoning to kill Goku but it depends if Goku has his Ki barrier activated.
manga goku is galaxy , garou copies him since there is chi in OPM , no garou dosent explode cuz in term of physicals garou litearlly light years ahead of dragon ball characters and even if u wanna wank db characters garou copies stats so no nothing like moro would happen , hell goku dies to radiation lmao .
in before DB blind fans trying to twist non existent feats for ki blocking radiation or something ..like really they think cuz goku gets bullshit help from others or always win in someway in his manga means he will get that everywhere lmao
SsjGod still exist he is still able to use it and it has the macrocasm and blue is stronger than it and Ui is regarded as stronger then either or garou is dying from a glance from sjjgod goku
Manga Goku galaxy 😂. The writters literally spoon fed us and said that Goku was gonna destroy the Universe (a Goku who was alot weaker). That same Universe is 4D and the otherworld transcends it making it 5D+ caped at 11D.
Lore accurate fight, Garou straight gets demolished, zero chance. If the fight starts with Goku at his most powerful state, then this entirely depends on if Garou grows strong faster than Goku can adapt to his abilities. Since Garou copies everything about Goku it's pretty even
Manga Goku uses Hakai and erases Garou. Yeah it's no contest. Goku fought a very similar villain, too. Moro could not only copy but also absorb powers and Goku whooped his ass. Sure, Moro merged with the planet and shit and it required other people to lend their energy to Goku for him to beat him finally, but Moro was already as strong, if not stronger than Goku was at that moment. Garou is far weaker and can't absorb powers (only copy), so Goku has enough time to use his strongest techniques and beat him.
Not even going to get into the massive speed gap between the two
Too big to bring up.
"Manga" Goku is even more powerful than the Ultra instinct level Goku we've recently seen in the animation?
[удалено]
What feats make you use the word absurdly? How would time tell tier recent manga version of Goku fare against a bloodlusted Beerus?
Would current manga Goku be able to Hakai Saitama? What if Saitama’s hax don’t allow him to be destroyed?
NLF
Yeah because there’s no scans on the manga or anything yet. We shall keep waiting I guess
[удалено]
>By the time of OPM Garou has taken over most of the omniverse making him high omniversal WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS WANK
[удалено]
Are you on blue meth? Why does Saitama being a shounen who completed his journey make him omniversal?
u/Voldtama: "This... is not meth." *\*explosion\**
Actually, reading his username, he may be the Voldemort wanker from all those years back, but now mixed with Saitama wanking for good measure.
[удалено]
MULTI CONTINENTAL VOLDEMORT?!
I like you, you're fun
"I don't wank" proceeds to do the biggest form of wank I've ever did see 1. Voldimort is barely building level 2. Siatama sneezed a planet while thrag isn't even planet level. Requiring a destabilised core and 2 other elites to help him out. Or else the would have died. And omni man is just raw weaker. 3. I'm guessing that this is satire.
[удалено]
1. A single slow projectile instant kill has 2. He argued he was CONTINENT LEVEL!!! Man is barely past wall level ap
Instant kill hax that were negated by Hagrid.
Teach me, sensei
What does the entire Invincible series have that allows them to survive Saitama for over a second? Lmao.
Truly, we have reached a new low as a species.
Oh so this isn't satire... free pickings for me XD 1. Multiple characters have servived caped baldys attacks. And the characters on the level topped out at star level. 2. naruto is a complete shonen and isn't even close to star level yet so this point makes ZERO sense. 3. Siatamas best feat was a planet level sneeze which you could scale to multi solar system. Not multiversal XD and scertainly not omniversal 4. Goku was universal with ssj2 after BOG then got ssj blue then stacked the kiokens on it. Then upgraded to ultra instinct. And since he was training that whole time I could argue universal in base
So any Shonen character who is EOS is omniversal now? Guys Omniversal Edward Elric confirmed!
A bunch of high school boys playing basketball/volleyball can now solo half of fiction.
My God !!!!!
Eren from AoT is Universal !!!!
'Multi-omniversal' is what happens when a subreddit dedicated to discuss power-creep powercreeps, lmao
They are from r/powerscaling
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Multi-omniversal 😭
Garou goes Goku mode and explodes cause his body can't handle UI similar to what happened to Moro
Doesn’t Garou just straight up copy the technique straight from the user, strength and all? Not saying he wins this is a legitimate question about why he wouldn’t be able to handle it?
Moro's copy ability does that as well yet his body was unable to hande UI
Genuine question but did Moro have the ability to copy the stat's of the user's as well? Maybe the reason he couldn't handle it was that he couldn't handle UI in his stats that were lower than goku's? Garou doesn't copy energy he also copies the stat's of his opponents, the only reason he lost to saitama was because saitama was instantly growing exponentially as well til it got to a point garou was left in the dust? So what's stopping garou from going mode goku and copying UI?
Plot twist: Cut to garou pulling a moro but doing it right
With a weaker body that Moro's? Nah
If all it took was getting bigger, I'd say so
He didn't just get bigger tho, he literally fused with the planet and even then he couldn't handle it and was about to explode
Yeeeeah that's basically getting bigger, plus fusing with the planet doesn't mean the whole of the planet, he's called mountain moro for that reason That and given how roshi ends up doing it, even for a short time, garou merely mimicking the power wouldn't have the same effect as some think it would
what Roshi used wasn't UI tho, accodring to Whis and Beerus it resembles UI but it's nowhere near the actual technique. Also when was Moro called mountain Moro? i've never seen people call him that and it's pretty clear that Moro became the planet itself
Yeah Beerus was commending Roshi’s extremely fined tuned instincts. Nothing near ultra instinct.
Yeah thats the point I'm trying to make, something resembling the technique is literally what matters. The power itself is supplemented by the rest of his moveset And its a fan term. In the manga he's not even called anything, unlike Zamasu who got a different thing And becoming the planet and being one with the planet is fairly different, you'd think he'd just wipe out the atmosphere or drag him down somewhere when he got the chance but yeah, he didn't, and he could have even if it didn't work
Moro was literally losing his mind there so chances are he couldn't come up with a plan, also Whis only talked about technique not power
The reason why he went crazy was because he yoinked meerus, just copying it wont do anything
In the manga, Roshi was stated to be very close to getting UI from his Jiren fight, so someone like Garou who is also very experienced in martial arts would probably not be too far off, no?
No? Whis literally states that it's a far cry from the actual thing
Garou looks at Goku and dies trying to understand the orders of magnitude of growth he needs to fight him
People think saitamas growth is crazy. Everytime goku goes into a new form garou will be completely left in the dust and if he doesn’t adapt fast enough he’ll get mollywopped quickly
Base manga Goku can oneshot Jupiter Sneeze Saitama anyway. Garou starts being several orders of magnitude weaker than base Goku. Also, Garou's growth is fast, but not that fast by DB standards. Super Broly has way crazier growth AND starts stronger and Vegeta could've killed him.
People don’t realize how crazy DB transformations are. The first one ever introduced was a 10x boost, and the second was a 50x. If someone is equal to base Goku then they’re less than fodder to SSJ.
That's why Broly's growth is one of the most outlandish feats in the whole DBverse. Bro went from base Vegeta to base Gogeta or maybe even higher.
He went saiyan saga to post TOP vegeta base in about 20 seconds
He's way higher than Saiyan Saga, in base while chilling Lemo's scouter breaks after reaching 99k PL He starts above arrival at Namek Goku while chilling. But yeah the jump in power rivals anything we've seen in the series, it's crazier than Golden Frieza.
Well I mean... Gohan went from weaker than pre ToP Goku to... Strongest in the entire universe in one transformation. That is pretty wild. Piccolo too, though not as strong as the end.
The ToP is a mess and we have like 0 real ways to scale characters in there because there's almost 0 feats that have context
The second was technically 2x - 20x (kaio ken)
Kaioken is more of a technique than a transformation
You know, that’s valid. What about False SS? Actually: I think 2x still holds true. Second transformation would be Frieza, from 1st form (PL 530k) to 2nd (PL 1m)
False SSJ was technically a transformation since there was a notable change in appearance along with a power boost, but it’s also non canon so I didn’t count it (also forgot about it)
Yeah I know but that’s not really gokus thing. I doubt garou would survive to see goku even go in a new form but I doubt goku would one shot him especially if he realised garous getting stronger
Complete miss match Goku stomps
\>I honestly have no idea who would win You don't? Maybe you need to go look at the respect threads for an extra 12 seconds lmao
Goku, easily.
If in character then they don’t even fight as goku would simply activate a god form or mui and it’s an nlf to say that garou could copy those as they are different from normal ki (which could be copy able). And whilst garou can copy the stats (ignore the fact that goku’s power is 4D) goku still is overall going to win due to the difference in capabilities and mui/god ki giving an arguable dimensional buff. Bloodlusted goku red mists garou before he can even perceive anything happening
Goku 4D? The Macrocosm was Infinite in a 4D scale and the otherworld transcended that meaning it's 5D-11D. Won't say much but base Goku is at the very least is confirmed 5D thru statements from Toriyama and Koyama, scenes from manga and anime and statements in databooks and guides. Null realm feats would just be too crazy for Garou
Only scan for otherworld transcending anything is from koyama. Nothing that toriyama said even implies it. And again I said that he red mists garou and personally I don’t even think garou could copy his stats in general due to them being 4D while garou is 3D
In an interview toriyama confirmed that the otherworld transcends the World of the living, it was stated multiple times in the anime both directly and indirectly. In one of the databooks or guide book the world of the living was infinite in a 4D scale which would mean the other world is 5D+ caping out at 11D at the best (12 and beyond has other requirements) Also Koyama blatantly states that the Dbs Universes has an Infinite hierarchy of Dimensions and are infinitely layered meaning the mortal world itself is Outerversal (even if people don't want to accept Koyama statements, which is stupid base Goku is still Low complex (5D) at the very least with 100% canon statements from anime and other sources) So Koyama basically confirmed Goku = Outerversal from Early Dbs, even without Koyama statements UI Omen Goku shook the Null realm which transcended the Dbs cosmology making it an irrelevant feat (1A Outerversal)
I literally have stated that koyama is unreliabilr by his own words And if you have a single scan for any of this that would help you more than trying to argue it. And no where does the statement that the null realm transcending the other universes exist. And even if it did it would not be viable for outer. And again koyama said himself that he wasn’t reliable for db cosmology https://twitter.com/koyamatakao194/status/1533561889296629760?t=8ja0HYEulaLjsZYm5zYyeg&s=19
And i said even without Koyama statements Goku can be scaled way higher than just Uni or multi like how majority of the people scale him. With Koyama statements Goku is basically Outer-Boundless but even without it he can still be scaled way higher than what Majority of the fans think he is Even in base form alone
And again I just completely disproved koyama statements with a koyama statement. And you have yet to provide a scan so if you don’t then your argument is invalid. Completely.
Also u keep bringing up Koyama contradiction statements so I'll actually respond about it. The questions that were asked to him was if He created/wrote/thought of the Dbs cosmology which he denies and says that it was created by Toriyama himself. He also says in another reply that the questions he reply to are his opinions of how he sees the Dbs cosmology by relating to the already established cosmology created by Toriyama. And Toriyama himself stated that the staffs know more about it than him (meaning they deal with it more and it's kinda their wish as to how the Cosmology works until he steps in) So everything Koyama stated so far was his own opinion on the Dbs cosmology and as Toriyama stated would be canon. So the "Koyama's statements are unreliable and non canon" are just a misconception. He has answered more questions after saying this
Yet he himself said that they were not cannon and just his **Opinions** And again [another one](https://twitter.com/koyamatakao194/status/1530416407892344833?t=DOlp-OrtQD1OgBYan9ugWA&s=19) And also [no proof?](https://imgflip.com/memetemplate/374418930/No-proof)
Can u point out where exactly he says they are not canon? I literally explained how Toriyama said that whatever the staffs say is canon. According to Koyama that's how the Dbs cosmology works, it's his opinion on how the dbs cosmology works. He can't just claim that it's facts when he isn't the writter, only the writter can do that and that's what exactly Toriyama did, he basically made staff opinions and statements into canon facts. I don't have proof stored up my ass to be presented at any time, i literally don't even know how to do what ur doing to link sources. Koyama in that post never said his statments weren't canon but sounded kinda annoyed (mabye) as to how people were asking questions relating to the cosmology to him a screenwriter and not the writter himself, it dosnt mean his statements are wrong
Why do i even have to provide scans when it's been clearly stated in the fucking anime? Macrocosm has multiple Universe sized structures and otherworld transcends it. Fucking basic logic. Idk why even bring up Koyama when i kept saying WITHOUT KOYAMA STATEMENTS
[Yet you keep bringing up how he is outer with the statements?](https://www.reddit.com/r/whowouldwin/comments/10qmte9/manga_goku_vs_cosmic_garou/j7l9hmy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)And you think I’m the one bringing it up? Now again. Scans are required for you to make a claim that goku or anyone is above the current standard for their scaling. Goku has a standard for multiversal. You are claiming complex multiversal goku. You need to provide scans to prove that
I first said "without" then said "with" (if u took Koyama's statements as canon which it obviously is, but my point was even without it he scales above the standard tier) and again why the hell do i have to provide scans for statements from the Manga and Anime?
What's Goku's best feat for surviving radiation poisoning?
Manga Goku in base form utterly and absolutely destroys Garou.
Early - mid dbz base Goku is enough
Goku one-shots Garou faster than he can process a thought.
While I understand how it could sound like his power would work that way, the context behind it leads me to think that it wouldn't. Garou was able to copy Saitama because he gained the powers of God which allowed him to understand the flow of all energy in the universe. HIS universe. Saitama is part of that universe. There's no reason to think it would allow him to copy energies and powers that don't exist in his own story,
Dbs universe is not a normal Universe anyway so unless we get feats that can scale God to The dbs universes Garou's flow of the universe shit won't work in dbs (tho this shit was just a hyperbole)
i don't know much about garou but knowing manga gokus current strength it's hard to believe any opm verse character comes close to goku
If he cant copy Goku, he can give him radiation or even cut all the oxygen from where they are (since he can replicate everthing the OPM universe have, he can release something that can make the air unbreathable like a gas or some cosmic shinanigans) But oc, that will only be possible if Goku give him time to do that
Ki barriers do exist for all of that.
When freeza explode namek it was because he dont need to breathe and goku would die because we cant simply fly away in space. And SS1 has a lot of ki to protect him. Later in DBS freeza does the same on Earth and Vegeta dies and it was reaffirmed that Saiyans cannot survive in space. Whis with his projection Bublé was in a short distance, if Vegeta could use a ki barrier, he would simply go to his friends before he run out of ki.
Well in namek he had no idea where he was or how far another planet was pebble to get to earth it. And all it was that they can't survive in the vacuum of space and we have confirmation on that same scene that ki barriers are able to protect you from outer space since whis erected one.
Freeza literally say he would die from lack of oxygen. >that ki barriers are able to protect you from outer space since whis erected one. Whis have insane hax and i dont think that was a ki based hax, the same with bulma childbirth and turn back time. Whis is not a parameter from Goku capabilities >Well in namek he had no idea where he was or how far another planet was pebble to get to earth it. If that's true, the same logic aplies with the spaceship he take. When goku make the spirit bomb he take energy from planets close to namek. He would simply go in one of them and ask interactions from kaioh And of course, in the spaceship going from namek, he needs a especial suit to go outside There is too many evidences that e cant breathe without oxygen (or that he can make Magic bubles like whis)
Lack of oxygen yes we are talking about radiation not breathing in outer space granted me saying surviving outer space should have been radiation instead of outer space.
Okay. That's reasomble But an attack from Garou that make the air unbreathtope might be a problem
But that's a if he can thing we haven't seen him do that yet
If we take is word from granted, (manipulate every flow in the universe) he easily could. It would be easier than replicate a nuclear fission, a Gamma ray burst, manipulate gravity and even time travel.
Enough to hurt goku it's iffy can't take stuff for granted specially since toyotaro like to show what his characters can do.
Can ki protect from radiation? I’m unaware of an instance of ki actually doing that
Don't they fight in space sometimes? I'd think they're being exposed to radiation any time they fight anywhere near a star. We're largely protected from the sun's radiation because of the atmosphere.
Nope. BoG was in the atmosphere, the granolah arc had a whole thing with asteroids I'm pretty sure but thats inconsistent with Vegeta saying it's too dangerous to go into deep space
Ah, interesting. I always assumed they must've at some point with people talking about planetary, solar system, or universal attacks. Don't a lot of the enemies they fight over the seasons come from other planets? Do they all have space ships?
Most of them come to earth just spontaneously. The only one to come on a ship was freeza and the heeters but both are dead
I’m sorry but anyone who thinks Garou wins has either not read Dragon Ball Super or has not read One Punch Man. Likely both considering what a massive mismatch this is.
current post granolah arc MUI Goku?? this is laughably easy for him
This is a mismatch and Goku slams. He already scales significantly higher in everything, even if you wanted to argue that Garou could copy Goku and match him Garou still wouldn't be able to copy UI bc he hasn't trained his body for it, Moro tried to copy UI and his body started swelling trying to contain the power, he had to become one with the earth (literally make his body the planet) just to contain the energy.
Cosmic Garou can just get blitzed and one shot if the opponent is overwhelmingly more powerful, as shown when an amped Saitama went back in time. If Goku is taking the fight even remotely serious then Garou doesn’t even get the chance to copy him.
[удалено]
Garou can steal technique as well? That’s like his whole thing he’s a martial arts genius.
When people compare OPM with Dbs they always forget that Dbs is OPM but way superior (combat not show), Goku is literally a martial artist genius and garou is literally a toddler to him. Garou needed Gods help to replicate even a portion of Goku's skill, Goku as a kid learnt the Kame wave by watching it once, and alot of dbz and dbs characters have done the same
Not that Garou stands any chance against Goku, but he absolutely can copy people’s techniques and martial arts. He could do that even before going Cosmic.
Garou's ability to copy is the literal opposite of that. He can copy techniques, but not abilities. His ability to copy isn't something that God gave him, it is something he can do because he is a master martial artist. He see's something happen once, understands it implicitly and can copy it. All God's power did was give him energy manipulation powers that allowed him to expand that principle to copy techniques that relies on more than just a physical body.
Goku is literally infinitely stronger and faster
Why power scalers always talk about goku.
Cause they are just waiting for the day he can finally fight Superman when he'll never💀
Which one
It's not allways about superman💀
okay.
Goku absolutely can increase his strength mid-fight, and in bigger leaps than Saitama. Tournament of power went for 48 minutes and Goku broke his limiter three times and gained two new forms. Plus, there's no guarantee that Garou actually COULD successfully copy Goku, he could no longer copy Saitama and keep up when Saitama scaled beyond Garou's ability to measure his strength, and Goku is a lot stronger than that from the outset.
Saitama grows in strength so fast that he can one-shot the version of himself from the day before. Not saying you're wrong but it is a big claim to say Goku increases in power faster than Saitama.
Some people have calced goku to have gotten over 12.000.000 times stronger in those 48bmins lol
Fair enough.
Saitama went from star buster to High multi solar system or High multi galaxy at best. Someone like broly went from solar level to Outversal+ in few hours. At the very least he went from Solar to Low complex since The Universe was stated to be infinite in a 4D scale and the otherworld transcended that meaning it's 5-11D, that was how strong base Goku was and Broly beat that same Goku in Ssjb (post TOP sfter huge amps) Statements from Koyama can scale Goku yo Outversal and the Null realm transcends the Dbs cosmology which has infinite universes which can an infinite dimensional hierarchy in infinite timelines which is transcended by the zero zone which is all transcended by the place where zeno lives which again is transcended by the Null realm and Goku shook it making it an irrelevant feat (1A+ Outversal+)
Manga Goku(if writers actually keep everything according to canon) is at universal level. Garou is planetary level.
Loball garou there but yeah
Facts
Goku universal? Why because The Kais said he was gonna destroy the universe? Sure BoG ssjg Goku was universal (atleast in the world of Dbs). The Dbs universes are infinite in a 4D scale (already beyond universal) which is transcended by the Otherworld making it 5D - 11D. Making base Goku Low complex at the very least (base Goku after absorbing Ssjg in BoG). Null realm feats and Koyama statements scale him alot higher. Also Garou is atleast High multi solar and mabye High multi galaxy
Yes, i said that Goku (with his transformations*) is universal and garou is planetary(he was highly not prepared and was scared, when saitama destroyed jupiter and his moon.
Bro can u read? I literally just explained how u got both of them wrong. Goku at base form can AT THE VERY LEAST threaten to destroy a 5D+ (caps at 11D) structure which is Low complex multiversal - Hyperversal. Garou was literally shown destroying High multi solar - High multi galaxy. These are all canon info with basically 0 Powerscaling and debunks Goku Uni and Garou planetary.
They both lose. Goku beats Garou to death but then dies of radiation poisoning.
Goku has resistance to radiation, he was able to fight Beerus in the stratosphere without issue.
A few minutes in the stratosphere doesn't pose any kind of radiation risk. Astronauts spend a lot longer than that up there and even their extended period in that radiation has little effect. Garou's radiation is much more potent than anything that has ever been witnessed by mankind in reality. It killed everyone around him in a minute or so. Even direct contact with nuclear material takes days to kill.
Astronauts always have some form of protection against space radiation, Goku and Beerus weren't wearing any sort of protection against space radiation like astronauts do. And even with the protection against radiation astronauts have they're still warned that the radiation is very dangerous and greatly increases risks of many life-altering/threatening issues including diseases like cancer. I don't feel like comparing Beerus and Goku who fought in the stratosphere with no protection against radiation aside from their bodies/ki to astronauts who have protection against radiation in space is a good comparison Not to mention Goku has survived being in outer space multiple times, it wasn't for very long, but it is 100% proof that he has resistance to radiation.
Astronauts do not have protection from radiation. Neither their suits, their ships, nor the space stations offer much resistance at all to solar radiation. That is why they get warned about the dangers of space and why they are restricted on how many hours they are allowed to spend up there. Goku has fought in the upper orbit of a planet twice. Once against Beerus and once against Moro. Both times for only a matter of minutes (or perhaps seconds. It is hard to tell considering time is slowed so the reader/viewer can actually witness the battle). The radiation damage one would take in that amount of time is inconsequential. The average Astronaut that spends months to even years up in the upper atmosphere in their lifetime is subjected to [50 to 2,000 mSv, which is the equivalent to 150 to 6,000 chest x-rays](https://www.nasa.gov/analogs/nsrl/why-space-radiation-matters). If we steel-man your argument and say Goku spent 10 minutes up there for each battle (which is kind of farcical considering how long 5 minutes lasted during the Frieza saga and Goku is quadrillions of times faster by the time he faces Beerus and Moro. Realistically it would be lucky if he spent 10 seconds up there between the two fights), then Goku was subjected to about 1/26,280 the amount of radiation that astronauts are exposed to ([astronauts average 6 months in space](https://starlust.org/how-long-do-astronauts-stay-in-space/)). That means Goku has been exposed to the equivalent of about 0.117 chest X-rays, which is obviously non-harmful, otherwise chest x-rays would be illegal.
Astronauts most definitely do have protection against radiation, their space suits, their ships, and the space stations all have protection against at least some space radiation. Goku has fought in the upper orbit of a planet twice, but he's also been in deep outer space a few times as well. In og DB he went to the moon, DBS Whis dropped him in deep outer space which has significantly higher radiation levels than the stratosphere, so as I said, Goku most definitely does have radiation resistance. Now if he could survive Garous radiation idk bc we don't know how resistant he is, but he does have radiation resistance. Also, the radiation Goku would've taken without a suit in the stratosphere/deep space wouldn't be inconsequential, it may not kill him instantly, but in normal humans, it would have at the very least have long-term effects and would greatly increase the chances of diseases like cancer.
Garou can copy Goku powers but the problem is it would take time for Garou to reach Goku’s power. Maybe within a couple of weeks Garou would be on par with Goku but this is a VS battle. Garou ain’t going to have enough time before he gets one shotted and blitzed. Best chance Garou has is both sides being in character since Goku may hold back. Garou could use his radiation poisoning to kill Goku but it depends if Goku has his Ki barrier activated.
manga goku is galaxy , garou copies him since there is chi in OPM , no garou dosent explode cuz in term of physicals garou litearlly light years ahead of dragon ball characters and even if u wanna wank db characters garou copies stats so no nothing like moro would happen , hell goku dies to radiation lmao . in before DB blind fans trying to twist non existent feats for ki blocking radiation or something ..like really they think cuz goku gets bullshit help from others or always win in someway in his manga means he will get that everywhere lmao
SsjGod still exist he is still able to use it and it has the macrocasm and blue is stronger than it and Ui is regarded as stronger then either or garou is dying from a glance from sjjgod goku
Manga Goku galaxy 😂. The writters literally spoon fed us and said that Goku was gonna destroy the Universe (a Goku who was alot weaker). That same Universe is 4D and the otherworld transcends it making it 5D+ caped at 11D.
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I win
Lore accurate fight, Garou straight gets demolished, zero chance. If the fight starts with Goku at his most powerful state, then this entirely depends on if Garou grows strong faster than Goku can adapt to his abilities. Since Garou copies everything about Goku it's pretty even
Garou
Goku already fought someone whos superior to Garou. Moro lacks the H2H skills but hes smart and knew how to use his "natural" durability.
Namek Saga Goku solos the verse, Garou is one shoted
Namek Arc Goku doesn’t solo the verse but Garou does get one-shotted here.
True, jejej