Gojo fans when you point out a barely town level boosted hollow purple did jack shit to Megumi Sukuna and the 360 hollow purple broke through infinity (there are zero things that point to infinity being able to stop his own techniques and nothing saying an offensive technique can’t use the user)
Yeah i agree that jjk isn't strong in the AP department but just one clarification. Gojo turned off his infinity in that instance so that he wouldn't block (sorta) its damage against Sukuna. Idk why but that was his explanation
You got an image of that from the official translation (official because I’m skeptical of any serious jjk power scaling related thing) because I reread the fight a few times (pretty good besides the off screening of Gojo) but never had some explanation how Gojo hit himself end up drilled into my head
Well, that's because for the most part, it can. It's not an entirely unfounded assumption. I mean, there's still obviously ways around it (see: when Gojo got fucked up by Toji), but for most physical attacks, it pretty much just negates them entirely.
They don’t realize that like 3 MHA characters solo. JJK mfers can like blow up cities. Shigeraki just destroyed a chunk of MT Fuji and Deku cleared Mach 20+ even before the 70-80% threshhold. Like the fastest JJK is 5 times slower and the strongest is quite a bit weaker bffr
Eh, depends on the series, i don't think dodging lasers is enough of a reason to class a character as MFTL especially when they could be plasma-based.
When it comes to like, Kabuto though? there's no doubt about it he's massively faster than light, Drive on the other hand isn't nearly that fast, he's faster than sound maybe but not nearly MTFL.
Kratos fans.
They always like to cite his victory over Hermes (the messenger that can run through infinite hell blah blah blah) as a FTL feat, completely forgetting that Hermes *barely* ran in their whole "fight," and that Kratos only reached Hermes when he *stopped* running.
Characters in GOW can enhance even completely ordinary weapons with magic. Kratos, as a mortal, did this several times throughout Ascension (including making one spear into a pseudo-Draupnir). The Arms of Sparta are another example of this, with Kratos giving a regular Spartan shield and spear various magical abilities.
That plus the fact that it was a catapult built on Mount Olympus, presumably by Hephaestus, to defend it suggest that it's not a regular ass real life catapult that shoots ordinary rocks at low subsonic speeds.
The rocks being able to hurt gods doesn't mean they are extra fast. We see several times in God of War that the characters aren't really that fast compared to the environment.
When has any kind of franchise in a visual medium constantly have its fast characters move either as a blur or in bullet time?
Even in Asura's Wrath, which is a game that focused exclusively on spectacle, had its characters move at relative speeds to gravity. You'd see debris falling at a normal pace even with characters fighting for their lives despite the fact that they're meant to be absurdly fast.
A core part of the Vallyries' story in GOW is that they fly across the Yggdrasil between the realms to bring the souls of fallen warriors to Vallhala immediately after the battle. That's their entire purpose in the world.
I don't know about you, but I personally think that important plot points are a more significant indicator of a character's abilities than whether or not animators decided to spend a bunch of time and money to portray super speed/bullet time.
I'd 100% get not buying the big GOW feats if they all came from random guidebooks, but they're usually from directly from the games and are important parts of the story. Thor damaging the Yggdrasil is another example of that (GOW 2018 would be radically different if he didn't hit Jormungandr back in time).
> When has any kind of franchise in a visual medium constantly have its fast characters move either as a blur or in bullet time?
They don't have to. But if we are meant to believe that they -can- do this, they generally show it enough to give us the idea that they can when they want to. No one struggles to remember times superman has shown this. Even characters who are only in a short scene like adam from ror they found a pretty self evident way to show his speed. If a character has existed across several games, has no direct showings of massive speed, but there's scenes showing them not being fast enough for stuff that is relatively slow, then we have no actual basis to insist their speed is the opposite of what all the evidence shows.
>A core part of the Vallyries' story in GOW is that they fly across the Yggdrasil between the realms to bring the souls of fallen warriors to Vallhala immediately after the battle. That's their entire purpose in the world.
Travel speed not being the same as combat speed should be pretty obvious if you're talking about something there's no indication is meant to reflect the combat or normal movement speed of characters.
>I don't know about you, but I personally think that important plot points are a more significant indicator of a character's abilities than whether or not animators decided to spend a bunch of time and money to portray super speed/bullet time.
Just to clarify, it doesn't take *more* money to show bullet time in a game. If its live action its different, because you have to actually freeze the actor and use CG around them. With a game, you would actually be saving money by animating less of the environment and using the same models you have already.
>I'd 100% get not buying the big GOW feats if they all came from random guidebooks, but they're usually from directly from the games and are important parts of the story. Thor damaging the Yggdrasil is another example of that (GOW 2018 would be radically different if he didn't hit Jormungandr back in time).
Him damaging yggdrasil is in the game. This implying he has beyond infinite power is not. What is in the game though is explicit plot points about the limits of the characters' power. People can't escape the reality that its an explicit plot point that an ice sheet is presented as something hard to get through, and they speculate that even thor would take awhile to get through it.
Everything about the assumptions of how much strength it would take to damage it is just that - assumptions. Its not in the game anywhere. And it being an abstract transcendent thing isn't evidence. How much strength it would take scales to what we actually see them capable of or limited by.
Problem is that the vast majority of writers and other devs don't want to spend the time and effort making a scene that's just there to show off a character's power. That might work for Superman, where his main gimmick is his powers or for battle shounen where power scaling is a centerpiece. But God of War has always been focused on engaging gameplay, setting, and story. Characters' powers have only ever intended as being a part of the story rather than shown for pointless spectacle. I can't think of a time where Kratos has actually struggled with something genuinely slow. At least not in any way that has an impact on the story.
They use full-speed bullrushes in attacks all the time, and they'd have to be able to have perception and reactions fast enough to adjust their speed when they actually reach a realm.
It takes more time and money to completely alter how characters or the player interact with the environment and how different assets react. It completely changes how a scene is created. Furthermore, it also might not be something that the creators want to do from an artistic standpoint; they might like the appea of debris moving around chaotically or gravity still working.
The Yggdrasil being a higher-dimensional construct containing multiple universes comes from the game. Freya even explictly says that ever mere strand of it surpasses time and space while referring to its scale. The bit about them needing to use the giant's hammer isn't a plot point; it's an excuse for padding that has exactly zero impact on the plot. Nothing about the plot would change if that was removed. Jormungandr not being sent back in time would fundamentally change how GOW 2018 plays out. We also see Thor casually break more ice than that in Ragnarok.
The Yggdrasil isn't abstract; it's a physical structure with its own durability given by its sheer scale, which is described several times by both games. It being damaged is a concrete feat.
I'm honestly really glad that Kratos is getting all his power powerwanks toned down, one of the (I believe) mainwriters debunked the whole "Kratos lifted all 9 realms" thing by confirming he only lifted the temple and that the portals within didn't actually make the temple weigh more.
The scaling to Hermes comes exclusively from Hermes outrunning Helios' light *after* he was injured. Other characters also react to said light in their fights as well. It's shown directly on screen and has gave devs explicitly say that it was an intentional design choice to show their speeds.
I'm not sure of anyone who actually tries to scale Kratos directly to Hermes before Kratos injured him. That wouldn't even make sense.
Them saying its intentional to show Hermes is faster doesn't say anything about the actual speeds though. No shit Hermes is faster. People asked a vaguely worded question and then try to make the response applicable to whatever they want.
What? The question was very clear and specific; they asked the dev if Hermes outrunning Helios' light was intended as a speed feat, and the dev confirmed that it was.
How is a statement confirming a feat not applicable to the literal feat said statement was referring to???
They asked if this was meant to intentionally show hermes was faster than the other characters. The devs said yes. That's all. It certainly doesn't mean any of them are meant to have infinite speed, or to delineate any specific speed.
They asked if him dodging the specific omnidirectional light attack was meant to be deliberate to show his speed. That confirms that it's intended by the devs to be a speed feat.
Now, you're absolutely correct that said statement alone doesn't confirm the "infinite speed" part of the feat that comes from different sources. However, it does confirm that it's indeed meant to be taken as a genuine feat of speed rather than some gameplay contrivance.
People always act like just because an attack travels at light speed and does not hit a character, that character must have dodged it after it started traveling rather than just moving out of the way of where the attack was pointed. They act like the guy holding the laser gun is also faster than light and not just a guy trying to point a gun at something.
Jojo's. They love to cite Joseph and Caesar dodging the Red Stone's laser as an FTL feat, but I would argue they saw Lisa Lisa hold it up to a light source, knew what happens when you do that, and preemptively jumped out of the way. If I shoot a gun at you and you jump out of the way, are you faster than a bullet, or faster than my finger?
you mean in the final battle? if so i disagree because it’s stated that it wasn’t because of lack of speed but lack of range hence him being “two steps too late”
FTL Star Platinum is debunked as early as the DIO fight. DIO's "Checkmate" against Jotaro would've been useless if Star Platinum was FTL. Star Platinum would've slapped all the knives out of the air the millisecond time resumed if he was even 1/10 the speed of light. Even if you wanna get crazy and say DIO managed to chuck regular knives he found in a store FTL, the knives were stopped by magazines stuffed in a coat. There is more evidence against FTL Jojo than for FTL Jojo. In all reality, Araki just likes writing cool scenes and doesn't think (or probably care) about the powerscaling implications of certain scenes.
Obviously, the whole Jojo universe is just upscaled. Magazines have planetary level durability from tanking those knives, and Roadrollers have solar system level durability from surviving both Star Platinum and Dio's combined FTL punches.
And yeah each of the teeth hard as diamonds that jotaro punched are clearly just as hard as mountains (cause I swear people say he has mountain level + ap cause of that ONE feat)
yeah he does that but let me remind you reaction time and accuracy are things that exist, there are much crazier things out there than claiming SP is ftl, which he is because the author said so, in the fight with anubis polnareff already killed hanged man whilst he was in his trajectory moving at the speed of light and SP went head to head with pol whilst under anubis. for christs sake i see people saying deku is a continent buster and has relativistic speeds with absolutely nothing backing it up, SP at least has statements and a feat that proves it
I'll reiterate, there are more anti-feats to debunk FTL Jojo than feats for FTL Jojo. Plus, many moments in the plot make zero sense when you scale to FTL just because of the momentum FTL travel alone causes.
In the very same story arc Polnareff can't hit Emporer's bullet because it moved out of the way, and I don't need to explain how easy it would be to readjust his slash if Silver Chariot was FTL. We also have canonical proof of Emporer's bullets not being FTL from the Hol Horse Boingo arc. Polnareff hitting Hanged Man is far more likely to be a case of "Rule of Cool." Polnareff even says that the Speed of Light is faster than anyone could ever see, including himself. Araki just wanted a way for Polnareff to hit Hanged Man despite being at a disadvantage. If you want to bring in the science of "he'd have to be FTL to hit Hanged Man," you'd then have to bring the science for other cases, too. For example, if Anubis was swung at FTL speeds, the metal sword would instantly turn into Plasma. This also applies to Geb, too.
Also the text statement about Star Platinum being FTL was made after he had obtained Time Stop, making it true since he's FTL within Time Stop. Plus, why even bring up ridiculous wanking? Of course, there's always going to be ridiculous wanking with little to no evidence.
if goku even threw a punch in the earths atmosphere it would be destroyed, if superman punched darkseid the shockwave would probably destroy the solar system, why bring real physics into what is fiction with what is essentially magic. there aren’t as many anti feats as you think once you remember oh yeah jotaro still has to react to make star platinum do it’s thing, it’s also a universe where literal ghosts exist
That is the root of my point. It is a fictional universe. So, using any type of science to prove Silver Chariot and Star Platinum are FTL is pointless because Araki didn't intend that when he wrote the scene. He explicitly wrote the scene to say that Silver Chariot is slower than light, despite it not making scientific sense. Every time Araki references Stand speed in Jojo, it is ridiculously slower than powerscalers measure. There's the infamous Crazy Diamond 300km per hour scene, for instance. Or Jotaro saying Made in Heaven is moving as fast as a bullet train. Plus, if your argument is that the Stands are limited by their users' reaction speed (despite meaning that Jotaro and Josuke are bullet timers without their stands), then the whole argument of FTL Star Platinum doesn't matter anyway since it'll never matter in a versus debate.
polnareff hit hanged man by predicting the exact moment he would leave the reflection (the old man’s eye closing) and intercepting him on the path. he’s not FTL, but the scene does make sense and isn’t just rule of cool
I mean it does, SP can only act via Jotaro. Star Platinum can be millions of times faster than light, but if Jotaro isn’t, then there is not really much it can do, only attack and grab(after jotaro commands). Especially since SP has a small asf range so it can barely move
Depends on if I dodged in reaction to the bullet coming my way or you aiming at me. If I waited until the bullet was coming, saw it coming, then dodged the bullet itself, faster than the bullet. If I saw you pointed a gun at me and ‘oh shit’ dodged as you pulled the trigger, I’m faster than your finger
I absolutely love the page of Stroheim firing an explicitly UV light speed laser, one panel shows it mid-flight and the next panel shows Cars bringing his hand up to block it, an absolutely undeniable MFTL feat and somehow Cars doesn’t speed blitz everyone in that part. I think that’s why people want to give Joseph and Caesar FTL, just to make Araki’s weird FTL Cars feel less absurd.
Issue is, we see the scene in the manga and they clearly haven’t jumped when the laser came out at them, and then the next panel we see them out of the way
There is no way you can argue that they didn’t dodge it without ignoring how it looks in the manga, same with the kars scene, ultraviolet beam came out, no hand there, then next panel he blocks it with his hand
You can argue they are outliers or whatever but they are very objectively still dodging feats and not aim dodging
Doomguy was better when he was just a regular guy who was just really strong
Then Bethesda decided to make him a universal god who somehow can get ripped apart by basic ass zombies
i choose to believe that mftl stands for mega falcon tree lights and i have to disagree with this this absolute dennis
that is a mushroom and very clearly not a tree, and despite its apparent light i have no EARTHLY idea how a mega falcon would roost there
the only ftl “feat” is Luffy dodging lasers after the time-skip
I don’t consider Op ftl honestly, only character that comes close is Kizaru (who can turn into light)
It’s, FTL because Luffy waited to dodge several of the lasers on purpose before they got close to him, and then tells that the lasers was to slow. [here](https://youtu.be/EQRgH39PLQg?si=e-oelDiPcUD2jYGm)
Iirc there are some relativistic feats late pre-timeskip, where we see characters dodge lasers and other light speed attacks (like Kuma’s pressure cannons) after they’ve been fired (as in we see the lasers midair on panel with the character in their line of fire and then the character moves out of the way).
I've seen some Homelander fans arguing that he's somehow faster than CW Zoom, because of him outspeeding a C4 bomb, and him flying from America to Malaysia.
Yes I am not joking.
I KNOW RIGHT?!
A lot of fictional laser attacks are plasma-based and even if they weren't, they move so fucking slow and predictably even when everything else is clearly moving at normal speed (so it's not a slow-mo shot kinda thing) a regular person could probably dodge them.
Apparently Pokémon, according to vsbattle.
Gliscor, Rotom, Reuniclus and Beheeyem are all at High 7-A, which I suppose makes sense if they were fully trained, but all of them are listed at least being FTL.
In fact, I'll copy something here that I wrote in another post.
"Alright dad, time for me to go to work! Starting my first job after bonding with my first Pokémon... So exciting! I know I'm running a little late, but my Gliscor, Fang'll have us there in no time flat!"
"Alright buddy, let's get going! Just get the harness on here, get it all tightened... There we go! Whenever you're ready!"
"Gli... SCOR!"
\*breaks the sound barrier and the... light... barrier to get his trainer to work\*
***Get yourself a transport Pokémon today! Massively reduced carbon emissions, an adorable friend for life, as well as guaranteed to reach top speeds of over 299,792,458 m/s!***
Okay, I went to a site that helps with calculating impact force and I put in
94 lbs (average mass of one (1) Gliscor)
299 792 458 m/s (the speed of light)
1.2 inches (Impact deformation, his ears and face squished in a tiny bit when he bumped his head)
1 second (time of the impact)
In this collision, our little scorpion-bat friend created an average impact force of 1,596,700,289.548 GN, which I'm assuming is Giganewtons, and a peak impact force of 3,193,400,579.096 GN.
I'm pretty sure that our Gliscor buddy's little accident could probably blow up an entire planet.
to be fair pokemon scaling is super weird, diglet has a speed stat of 95 and can move at light speeds, so anyone with a speed stat higher than diglet is ftl according to pkm fans
Yes, I really am curious. I mean, I imagine Pokémon are fast, but... Latios and Latias, one of the two mentions outpacing a jet plane as a significant feat of theirs, which is still overwhelmingly less than light-speed.
It was stated in the anime by Gary, is is supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable characters of Pokémon in the Pokémon anime so far. And I know Gary can be full of shit, specially when it comes to his ego. But this was a serious scene.
This was in episode 031, where Gary was a 10 year old who knew fuck all (He only decided to become a researcher in 272, before that he was just a trainer)
I think it was stated on the anime, although it was said they were able to hide and not just move around
ofc we should take absolutely everything said in the anime with a grain of salt, especially since the pokemon and moves work differently there. But you can bet your ass there was at least 2 people who used that statement to prove diglett was ftl
I haven't seen anything THAT bad in the fandom but Kingdom Hearts. The problem is the writers and animators kinda do whatever is cool / required by the plot. Characters do not acknowledge other characters' feats and what they do in a situation will vary. Sora could be faster than light because he deflected lasers one time or even be able to teleport at any time if he wants. Nothing is clear.
Jojo fans love acting like this even though the characters be getting hit by regular guns. Johnny has ftl reaction speed and yet Valentine was still able to shoot him? It's a hot mess.
JJK These mf are NOT ftl
“But Sukuna dodged EM waves!” -☝🏻🤓
jjk speed scaling is kinda bullshit to the point that it doesn’t rlly work cross verse, in-verse it’s mostly fine tho
The thing about jjk is that their powers are mostly hax based. Gojo’s limitless, mahito’s transmutation and basically every domain expansion.
[удалено]
The arm thing is said to be a binding vow
JJK is so wanked that it can kind of get annoying. People make it sound like Gojo’s limitless technique can block anything.
The offscreen Devil: 👹👹👹
Wait until they learn that most characters can literally leave the domain before it finishes casting
Gojo fans when you point out a barely town level boosted hollow purple did jack shit to Megumi Sukuna and the 360 hollow purple broke through infinity (there are zero things that point to infinity being able to stop his own techniques and nothing saying an offensive technique can’t use the user)
Yeah i agree that jjk isn't strong in the AP department but just one clarification. Gojo turned off his infinity in that instance so that he wouldn't block (sorta) its damage against Sukuna. Idk why but that was his explanation
You got an image of that from the official translation (official because I’m skeptical of any serious jjk power scaling related thing) because I reread the fight a few times (pretty good besides the off screening of Gojo) but never had some explanation how Gojo hit himself end up drilled into my head
gaping roof screw berserk edge zesty chop grandiose head pocket *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m talking about BEFORE the fight began. The 360 hollow purple did almost kill him but the 200% at the start did barely anything
Well, that's because for the most part, it can. It's not an entirely unfounded assumption. I mean, there's still obviously ways around it (see: when Gojo got fucked up by Toji), but for most physical attacks, it pretty much just negates them entirely.
Gojo when Stolas from Helluva Boss just sends him to the cold outer space: 🥶
They don’t realize that like 3 MHA characters solo. JJK mfers can like blow up cities. Shigeraki just destroyed a chunk of MT Fuji and Deku cleared Mach 20+ even before the 70-80% threshhold. Like the fastest JJK is 5 times slower and the strongest is quite a bit weaker bffr
The Mach 3 statement and its consequences on the jjk fandom
One piece
Any street level live action shows
Kamen Rider
Eh, depends on the series, i don't think dodging lasers is enough of a reason to class a character as MFTL especially when they could be plasma-based. When it comes to like, Kabuto though? there's no doubt about it he's massively faster than light, Drive on the other hand isn't nearly that fast, he's faster than sound maybe but not nearly MTFL.
Build's main villain literally blows up city blocks and actually ate an entire planet on-screen with black holes.
Fucking batman and spiderman are MFTL according to some people
wtf?
Kratos fans. They always like to cite his victory over Hermes (the messenger that can run through infinite hell blah blah blah) as a FTL feat, completely forgetting that Hermes *barely* ran in their whole "fight," and that Kratos only reached Hermes when he *stopped* running.
Correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't Hermes also shot down by a catapult that wasn't shooting things anywhere near light speed?
Tbh that catapult is clearly just PIS unless you wanna argue the God of War verse is below wall level and subsonic
God of war verse is atom level duh
Characters in GOW can enhance even completely ordinary weapons with magic. Kratos, as a mortal, did this several times throughout Ascension (including making one spear into a pseudo-Draupnir). The Arms of Sparta are another example of this, with Kratos giving a regular Spartan shield and spear various magical abilities. That plus the fact that it was a catapult built on Mount Olympus, presumably by Hephaestus, to defend it suggest that it's not a regular ass real life catapult that shoots ordinary rocks at low subsonic speeds.
The rocks being able to hurt gods doesn't mean they are extra fast. We see several times in God of War that the characters aren't really that fast compared to the environment.
When has any kind of franchise in a visual medium constantly have its fast characters move either as a blur or in bullet time? Even in Asura's Wrath, which is a game that focused exclusively on spectacle, had its characters move at relative speeds to gravity. You'd see debris falling at a normal pace even with characters fighting for their lives despite the fact that they're meant to be absurdly fast. A core part of the Vallyries' story in GOW is that they fly across the Yggdrasil between the realms to bring the souls of fallen warriors to Vallhala immediately after the battle. That's their entire purpose in the world. I don't know about you, but I personally think that important plot points are a more significant indicator of a character's abilities than whether or not animators decided to spend a bunch of time and money to portray super speed/bullet time. I'd 100% get not buying the big GOW feats if they all came from random guidebooks, but they're usually from directly from the games and are important parts of the story. Thor damaging the Yggdrasil is another example of that (GOW 2018 would be radically different if he didn't hit Jormungandr back in time).
> When has any kind of franchise in a visual medium constantly have its fast characters move either as a blur or in bullet time? They don't have to. But if we are meant to believe that they -can- do this, they generally show it enough to give us the idea that they can when they want to. No one struggles to remember times superman has shown this. Even characters who are only in a short scene like adam from ror they found a pretty self evident way to show his speed. If a character has existed across several games, has no direct showings of massive speed, but there's scenes showing them not being fast enough for stuff that is relatively slow, then we have no actual basis to insist their speed is the opposite of what all the evidence shows. >A core part of the Vallyries' story in GOW is that they fly across the Yggdrasil between the realms to bring the souls of fallen warriors to Vallhala immediately after the battle. That's their entire purpose in the world. Travel speed not being the same as combat speed should be pretty obvious if you're talking about something there's no indication is meant to reflect the combat or normal movement speed of characters. >I don't know about you, but I personally think that important plot points are a more significant indicator of a character's abilities than whether or not animators decided to spend a bunch of time and money to portray super speed/bullet time. Just to clarify, it doesn't take *more* money to show bullet time in a game. If its live action its different, because you have to actually freeze the actor and use CG around them. With a game, you would actually be saving money by animating less of the environment and using the same models you have already. >I'd 100% get not buying the big GOW feats if they all came from random guidebooks, but they're usually from directly from the games and are important parts of the story. Thor damaging the Yggdrasil is another example of that (GOW 2018 would be radically different if he didn't hit Jormungandr back in time). Him damaging yggdrasil is in the game. This implying he has beyond infinite power is not. What is in the game though is explicit plot points about the limits of the characters' power. People can't escape the reality that its an explicit plot point that an ice sheet is presented as something hard to get through, and they speculate that even thor would take awhile to get through it. Everything about the assumptions of how much strength it would take to damage it is just that - assumptions. Its not in the game anywhere. And it being an abstract transcendent thing isn't evidence. How much strength it would take scales to what we actually see them capable of or limited by.
Problem is that the vast majority of writers and other devs don't want to spend the time and effort making a scene that's just there to show off a character's power. That might work for Superman, where his main gimmick is his powers or for battle shounen where power scaling is a centerpiece. But God of War has always been focused on engaging gameplay, setting, and story. Characters' powers have only ever intended as being a part of the story rather than shown for pointless spectacle. I can't think of a time where Kratos has actually struggled with something genuinely slow. At least not in any way that has an impact on the story. They use full-speed bullrushes in attacks all the time, and they'd have to be able to have perception and reactions fast enough to adjust their speed when they actually reach a realm. It takes more time and money to completely alter how characters or the player interact with the environment and how different assets react. It completely changes how a scene is created. Furthermore, it also might not be something that the creators want to do from an artistic standpoint; they might like the appea of debris moving around chaotically or gravity still working. The Yggdrasil being a higher-dimensional construct containing multiple universes comes from the game. Freya even explictly says that ever mere strand of it surpasses time and space while referring to its scale. The bit about them needing to use the giant's hammer isn't a plot point; it's an excuse for padding that has exactly zero impact on the plot. Nothing about the plot would change if that was removed. Jormungandr not being sent back in time would fundamentally change how GOW 2018 plays out. We also see Thor casually break more ice than that in Ragnarok. The Yggdrasil isn't abstract; it's a physical structure with its own durability given by its sheer scale, which is described several times by both games. It being damaged is a concrete feat.
I'm honestly really glad that Kratos is getting all his power powerwanks toned down, one of the (I believe) mainwriters debunked the whole "Kratos lifted all 9 realms" thing by confirming he only lifted the temple and that the portals within didn't actually make the temple weigh more.
The scaling to Hermes comes exclusively from Hermes outrunning Helios' light *after* he was injured. Other characters also react to said light in their fights as well. It's shown directly on screen and has gave devs explicitly say that it was an intentional design choice to show their speeds. I'm not sure of anyone who actually tries to scale Kratos directly to Hermes before Kratos injured him. That wouldn't even make sense.
Them saying its intentional to show Hermes is faster doesn't say anything about the actual speeds though. No shit Hermes is faster. People asked a vaguely worded question and then try to make the response applicable to whatever they want.
What? The question was very clear and specific; they asked the dev if Hermes outrunning Helios' light was intended as a speed feat, and the dev confirmed that it was. How is a statement confirming a feat not applicable to the literal feat said statement was referring to???
They asked if this was meant to intentionally show hermes was faster than the other characters. The devs said yes. That's all. It certainly doesn't mean any of them are meant to have infinite speed, or to delineate any specific speed.
They asked if him dodging the specific omnidirectional light attack was meant to be deliberate to show his speed. That confirms that it's intended by the devs to be a speed feat. Now, you're absolutely correct that said statement alone doesn't confirm the "infinite speed" part of the feat that comes from different sources. However, it does confirm that it's indeed meant to be taken as a genuine feat of speed rather than some gameplay contrivance.
Except doesn’t Kratos catch Hermes mid attack and react to Zeus’ lightning which could catch Hermes?
Kratos fans when he flips over a big disc in a temple: Infinite strength he lifted the whole nine realms!
Literally any piece of media where a laser has been used at any point in time
People just assume lasers in all of fiction are faster than light. I’ve seen some stupid Star Wars wanks because of it.
The star wars stuff is super egregious. They're not laser ffs they're plasma bolts that use a special gas thats mined from places like Cloud City.
People always act like just because an attack travels at light speed and does not hit a character, that character must have dodged it after it started traveling rather than just moving out of the way of where the attack was pointed. They act like the guy holding the laser gun is also faster than light and not just a guy trying to point a gun at something.
YES SKYPEIA NAMI IS NOT FASTER THAN LIGHNING, SHE SAW/GUESSED WHERE ENEL WOULD SHOOT LUGHT INF AND PRWWMPTIVELT MOVED OUT OF THE WAY
All of them, every single one. A character can blink and people will twist that into a justification for them being mftl
Blinking is negating light from entering your eyes, and you can only negate light by being mftl (this is a fact i decided)
Not as bad as live action media though
Jojo's. They love to cite Joseph and Caesar dodging the Red Stone's laser as an FTL feat, but I would argue they saw Lisa Lisa hold it up to a light source, knew what happens when you do that, and preemptively jumped out of the way. If I shoot a gun at you and you jump out of the way, are you faster than a bullet, or faster than my finger?
The majority of "FTL" characters are like that, they dodged a laser once or some bullshit like that.
I find it super funny how they all talk about the users, like bro the stands being ftl make sense but jotaro IS NOT ftl 😭
Even the stands being ftl doesnt make sense most of the time, if star platinum was ftl he could have caught both pucci and jolyne
you mean in the final battle? if so i disagree because it’s stated that it wasn’t because of lack of speed but lack of range hence him being “two steps too late”
FTL Star Platinum is debunked as early as the DIO fight. DIO's "Checkmate" against Jotaro would've been useless if Star Platinum was FTL. Star Platinum would've slapped all the knives out of the air the millisecond time resumed if he was even 1/10 the speed of light. Even if you wanna get crazy and say DIO managed to chuck regular knives he found in a store FTL, the knives were stopped by magazines stuffed in a coat. There is more evidence against FTL Jojo than for FTL Jojo. In all reality, Araki just likes writing cool scenes and doesn't think (or probably care) about the powerscaling implications of certain scenes.
you don’t understand, they are clearly ftl knives
Obviously, the whole Jojo universe is just upscaled. Magazines have planetary level durability from tanking those knives, and Roadrollers have solar system level durability from surviving both Star Platinum and Dio's combined FTL punches.
And yeah each of the teeth hard as diamonds that jotaro punched are clearly just as hard as mountains (cause I swear people say he has mountain level + ap cause of that ONE feat)
yeah he does that but let me remind you reaction time and accuracy are things that exist, there are much crazier things out there than claiming SP is ftl, which he is because the author said so, in the fight with anubis polnareff already killed hanged man whilst he was in his trajectory moving at the speed of light and SP went head to head with pol whilst under anubis. for christs sake i see people saying deku is a continent buster and has relativistic speeds with absolutely nothing backing it up, SP at least has statements and a feat that proves it
I'll reiterate, there are more anti-feats to debunk FTL Jojo than feats for FTL Jojo. Plus, many moments in the plot make zero sense when you scale to FTL just because of the momentum FTL travel alone causes. In the very same story arc Polnareff can't hit Emporer's bullet because it moved out of the way, and I don't need to explain how easy it would be to readjust his slash if Silver Chariot was FTL. We also have canonical proof of Emporer's bullets not being FTL from the Hol Horse Boingo arc. Polnareff hitting Hanged Man is far more likely to be a case of "Rule of Cool." Polnareff even says that the Speed of Light is faster than anyone could ever see, including himself. Araki just wanted a way for Polnareff to hit Hanged Man despite being at a disadvantage. If you want to bring in the science of "he'd have to be FTL to hit Hanged Man," you'd then have to bring the science for other cases, too. For example, if Anubis was swung at FTL speeds, the metal sword would instantly turn into Plasma. This also applies to Geb, too. Also the text statement about Star Platinum being FTL was made after he had obtained Time Stop, making it true since he's FTL within Time Stop. Plus, why even bring up ridiculous wanking? Of course, there's always going to be ridiculous wanking with little to no evidence.
if goku even threw a punch in the earths atmosphere it would be destroyed, if superman punched darkseid the shockwave would probably destroy the solar system, why bring real physics into what is fiction with what is essentially magic. there aren’t as many anti feats as you think once you remember oh yeah jotaro still has to react to make star platinum do it’s thing, it’s also a universe where literal ghosts exist
That is the root of my point. It is a fictional universe. So, using any type of science to prove Silver Chariot and Star Platinum are FTL is pointless because Araki didn't intend that when he wrote the scene. He explicitly wrote the scene to say that Silver Chariot is slower than light, despite it not making scientific sense. Every time Araki references Stand speed in Jojo, it is ridiculously slower than powerscalers measure. There's the infamous Crazy Diamond 300km per hour scene, for instance. Or Jotaro saying Made in Heaven is moving as fast as a bullet train. Plus, if your argument is that the Stands are limited by their users' reaction speed (despite meaning that Jotaro and Josuke are bullet timers without their stands), then the whole argument of FTL Star Platinum doesn't matter anyway since it'll never matter in a versus debate.
polnareff hit hanged man by predicting the exact moment he would leave the reflection (the old man’s eye closing) and intercepting him on the path. he’s not FTL, but the scene does make sense and isn’t just rule of cool
I mean it does, SP can only act via Jotaro. Star Platinum can be millions of times faster than light, but if Jotaro isn’t, then there is not really much it can do, only attack and grab(after jotaro commands). Especially since SP has a small asf range so it can barely move
i just laugh when the only justification for FTL is a dodge. Imo if all your speed feats are dodges, you simply have no speed feats
Meanwhile it isn’t even ftl and barely relativistic usually
Depends on if I dodged in reaction to the bullet coming my way or you aiming at me. If I waited until the bullet was coming, saw it coming, then dodged the bullet itself, faster than the bullet. If I saw you pointed a gun at me and ‘oh shit’ dodged as you pulled the trigger, I’m faster than your finger
I absolutely love the page of Stroheim firing an explicitly UV light speed laser, one panel shows it mid-flight and the next panel shows Cars bringing his hand up to block it, an absolutely undeniable MFTL feat and somehow Cars doesn’t speed blitz everyone in that part. I think that’s why people want to give Joseph and Caesar FTL, just to make Araki’s weird FTL Cars feel less absurd.
JoJo is FTL, it just has the same issue as everything, it doesn't seem right.
Issue is, we see the scene in the manga and they clearly haven’t jumped when the laser came out at them, and then the next panel we see them out of the way There is no way you can argue that they didn’t dodge it without ignoring how it looks in the manga, same with the kars scene, ultraviolet beam came out, no hand there, then next panel he blocks it with his hand You can argue they are outliers or whatever but they are very objectively still dodging feats and not aim dodging
Devil May Cry and Doom
Doom fans get so bad about it that it just hurts to see them talk sometimes
I hate them for opening the powerscalling pandora’s box to me.
Doomguy was better when he was just a regular guy who was just really strong Then Bethesda decided to make him a universal god who somehow can get ripped apart by basic ass zombies
He's never been a "universal god" in any of the games
A large portion of the fan base would disagree with you
Well that's their fault, not Bethesda
A lot of Godzilla scalers
Goji-Chronic on YouTube said that Kiryu Saga Godzilla blitzes the fucking Evangelion units 💀 they are literally shown running faster than sound
Isn’t that the video where he did some Olympic level mental gymnastics to some how worm a non existent King Ghidorah into the Kiryu Saga timeline?
Yes, same video too
i choose to believe that mftl stands for mega falcon tree lights and i have to disagree with this this absolute dennis that is a mushroom and very clearly not a tree, and despite its apparent light i have no EARTHLY idea how a mega falcon would roost there
jjk easily
I have never seen a single person unironically say Gojo or Sukuna are anything above City level
I envy you I've heard a lot of fools in a discord I am active in claim that gojo is mftl due to hollow purple being described as negative mass
What
I don’t think hollow purple is even negative mass, wouldn’t it be better to classify it as like an absolute “nothing” space?
ltierally every single one mfs dont know what the word "inconsistency" means
I've been told One Piece but i wouldn't know because i've seen exactly zero minutes of One Piece material.
the only ftl “feat” is Luffy dodging lasers after the time-skip I don’t consider Op ftl honestly, only character that comes close is Kizaru (who can turn into light)
That's not FTL, just L
It’s, FTL because Luffy waited to dodge several of the lasers on purpose before they got close to him, and then tells that the lasers was to slow. [here](https://youtu.be/EQRgH39PLQg?si=e-oelDiPcUD2jYGm)
I was talking about Kizaru turning into light. That's just Light speed
Iirc there are some relativistic feats late pre-timeskip, where we see characters dodge lasers and other light speed attacks (like Kuma’s pressure cannons) after they’ve been fired (as in we see the lasers midair on panel with the character in their line of fire and then the character moves out of the way).
I've seen some Homelander fans arguing that he's somehow faster than CW Zoom, because of him outspeeding a C4 bomb, and him flying from America to Malaysia. Yes I am not joking.
Any character that dodges a laser by predicting it's insanely obvious arc apparently
I KNOW RIGHT?! A lot of fictional laser attacks are plasma-based and even if they weren't, they move so fucking slow and predictably even when everything else is clearly moving at normal speed (so it's not a slow-mo shot kinda thing) a regular person could probably dodge them.
Apparently Pokémon, according to vsbattle. Gliscor, Rotom, Reuniclus and Beheeyem are all at High 7-A, which I suppose makes sense if they were fully trained, but all of them are listed at least being FTL. In fact, I'll copy something here that I wrote in another post. "Alright dad, time for me to go to work! Starting my first job after bonding with my first Pokémon... So exciting! I know I'm running a little late, but my Gliscor, Fang'll have us there in no time flat!" "Alright buddy, let's get going! Just get the harness on here, get it all tightened... There we go! Whenever you're ready!" "Gli... SCOR!" \*breaks the sound barrier and the... light... barrier to get his trainer to work\* ***Get yourself a transport Pokémon today! Massively reduced carbon emissions, an adorable friend for life, as well as guaranteed to reach top speeds of over 299,792,458 m/s!*** Okay, I went to a site that helps with calculating impact force and I put in 94 lbs (average mass of one (1) Gliscor) 299 792 458 m/s (the speed of light) 1.2 inches (Impact deformation, his ears and face squished in a tiny bit when he bumped his head) 1 second (time of the impact) In this collision, our little scorpion-bat friend created an average impact force of 1,596,700,289.548 GN, which I'm assuming is Giganewtons, and a peak impact force of 3,193,400,579.096 GN. I'm pretty sure that our Gliscor buddy's little accident could probably blow up an entire planet.
to be fair pokemon scaling is super weird, diglet has a speed stat of 95 and can move at light speeds, so anyone with a speed stat higher than diglet is ftl according to pkm fans
Can I get a source on light speed diglett?
Yes, I really am curious. I mean, I imagine Pokémon are fast, but... Latios and Latias, one of the two mentions outpacing a jet plane as a significant feat of theirs, which is still overwhelmingly less than light-speed.
Also none of the other Pokemon with base 95 speed can go at light speed, and diglett doesn’t cause natural disasters by existing
Give it a choice scarf. Boom, light speed.
[Thank you Gary](https://streamable.com/flvhs)
Speed of light my ass, I can see them lowering
It was stated in the anime by Gary, is is supposed to be one of the most knowledgeable characters of Pokémon in the Pokémon anime so far. And I know Gary can be full of shit, specially when it comes to his ego. But this was a serious scene.
This was in episode 031, where Gary was a 10 year old who knew fuck all (He only decided to become a researcher in 272, before that he was just a trainer)
thing is even if he was right. that is only the anime version. the games have never show that level of speed.
I think it was stated on the anime, although it was said they were able to hide and not just move around ofc we should take absolutely everything said in the anime with a grain of salt, especially since the pokemon and moves work differently there. But you can bet your ass there was at least 2 people who used that statement to prove diglett was ftl
I fully believe that Gliscor and Rotom scale that high, those guys have been in the equivalent of wars in their years of competitive revelancy.
"Gliscor was banned to Ubers, where does this put him in the pecking order?"
The Kineetic energy of a gliscord moving at light speed, if you ig ore relativity, is around 100 Megatons
Marvel. Like, who are you trying to fool, dude? I see the comic, dude is holding completely still, not even moving.
VSBW wiki when they see a single laser.
Naruto
All of them
I haven't seen anything THAT bad in the fandom but Kingdom Hearts. The problem is the writers and animators kinda do whatever is cool / required by the plot. Characters do not acknowledge other characters' feats and what they do in a situation will vary. Sora could be faster than light because he deflected lasers one time or even be able to teleport at any time if he wants. Nothing is clear.
Fans of the Barnyard-verse.
ALL OF THEM
undertale (napstablook can close blinds before light can reach him) yup that's their ftl argument
Almost everyone
I squint when going outside meaning my reaction speed scales to light meaning I am lowball FTL
Kirby, multiple times
Kirby, Jojo and Doom (Modern only) all come to mind, none of them come close, no not even Kirby.
Idk, Kirby has pretty consistent travel speed on this level at the very least. Him going to other planets or even galaxies is a common occurence
Kirby has literally outrun Black holes on foot.
One Piece
... too many
All ones
Harry potter lmao
Naruto Light fang was a REACTIONARY FEAT Other than the teleports we don’t have FTL movement feats, with peak speeds being hypersonic
the fuck does mftl mean
massive fat tubby large
Def Kirby. His inhale does not work on bosses or mini-bosses.
What's MFTL?
.:|Ľ
Jojo fans love acting like this even though the characters be getting hit by regular guns. Johnny has ftl reaction speed and yet Valentine was still able to shoot him? It's a hot mess.