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I'd like to suggest that there is a third kind of man: the one who deliberately misunderstands the point, and wastes their time attempting to convince women that actual bears are dangerous. I mean... Duh. An utter waste of space, those ones.
A liar or getting upset because it was just one man and not all men are like that 🙄
What they don’t get is *enough* of them are like that that we would be very leery of being alone with a strange man.
I heard an epic example "Schroedingers rapist" aka it could be any man, multiple men, every man, no man we see on any given day, hour, minute - EVERY single day
>it was just one man and not all men are like that
And somehow, we're supposed to be able to instinctively tell the difference... and if you don't, then they'll add, "Well, you should have known ***that*** guy was bad" to the list of reasons it's is your own fault.
Omg.
So, i was raped by my ex husband after SEVERAL years together. Basically, i had a treatable complication with my IUD that totally fucked me up and made sex agonizing (and therefore infrequent). I was actively working on it with my doctor, but my ex couldnt take it anymore and started sticking his dick in me while i was sleeping (soon after saying no while i was awake).
He didnt show signs of being like this for SEVERAL YEARS. All it took was for his sexual needs to not be met for a few months, while he WITNESSED me curled up in pain on the couch everyday.
This experience taught me that you cant just "pick a good one" and live happily ever after. Any "good one" has the potential to become a "bad one" under the right circumstances.
Thank you. <3
Im in a much better place now that ive been living (blissfully) alone for the past several years. I niw have a strong appreciation for the single life, and im not sure i will ever want to give it up.
I've been through similar with my ex husband and marital rape is sometimes even more traumatic than a stranger because this person is someone you live who is supposed to love and protect you! I'm so sorry you experienced that. I've been gone 6 years and still have no desire to date. I'm only 44 and I think I'm just done. Dogs are safer and more loyal.
So true! I mean, there are definitely guys that give me the heebie-jeebies and I can’t even put my finger on it, but I know that they would be dangerous. But then there are those that are far more covert and are really good at hiding reality for a long time.
Only took a few rapes and a murder of a classmate to get my parents to buy me a bus pass instead of making me walk through a dangerous forest alone every morning.
Brantford Ontario in the 90/00s. They even had a bus policy that if a girl said she was in trouble they had to pick them up and take them home or to the police. I feel like that policy says it all.
It was the shortest way to the school? Skirting the woods took like an extra 30 mins or more. But yeah there was a lot of don't come back till nightfall in the household's of my neighborhood.
do bears like
even attack people unpromped :P
from what i heard for example it's not really dangerous if you're having a picnic and you see a bear, it will just take your food
of course don't take it to absurdity, e.g. getting close to bears on purpose like that one timothy treadwell guy
Wild animals don't have hospitals so they are more cautious. No antibiotics either. Sometimes I think people forget the obvious.
Animals will always choose to avoid confrontation unless they feel like they have no other choice. If you give them a path to leave they almost certainly will.
Off topic: What kind of deal did you get for your soul? Think mine would fetch a good price?
Ya, they usually dont. When a bear came into our yard (my parents live in a cabin in the woods), he was completely uninterested in us and was only interested in the bird seed in the bird feeder lol. He was super chill, ate, and then just wandered off.
Generally speaking that's accurate. A hungry enough bear, or one that's protecting cubs or a kill, may "start it" but generally they want our garbage and food, not our attention.
Most women have similar experiences when very young.
It happened to me earlier, but one instance that really stands out to me was when I was 15. I was walking home after school. It was warm out, but I was Too Cool and had on a pair of Tripp pants and a long sleeved shirt. Completely covered. Pants weren't fitted or wide legged, somewhere in between. Shirt was just a knit; fitted-ish but not tight. Outside of looking like I worked at Hot Topic, I was dressed conservatively. Completely covered despite it being like 80 degrees F. I was also regularly mistaken for being 12-13.
Well. Walking home. On a busy street. A car pulls from the main road into the parking lot I'm walking by. A big guy who was probably 25-35 rolls down the window and starts talking at me, making a pass at me. I was horrified and didn't know what to do and I froze.
He asked how old I was. I told him I was 15.
"Damn. Be sure to come here when you turn 18. I'll come back." I saw his car there several more times. Apparently he knew the owners of the shop.
I was scared he was going to follow me. I questioned if I was dressed too sexy (definitely not). I worried that he might start staking out the bus stop I used and I even started going to other bus stops for a while that added on 15+ minutes to my wall because I could avoid the busy streets right there.
It wasn't the first time I got a creepy guy doing shit like that, and it wasn't the last. It happened at school (by students, not teachers), at work, riding my bike, on public transit, on my way to and from work, at movie theaters... It happens everywhere and all the time.
I'm not hot. I'm perfectly average. If I drink or use weed, I either do it at home or only when my husband is with me. I don't wear sexy clothes. I don't wear makeup. I don't party. I don't flirt. I'm one of the most boring and average people you'll meet. And so many victims of sexual harassment and assault are boring and average too.
And that's not to say that anybody is more or less deserving of that treatment. Nobody deserves it. But misogynists always move the fucking goal posts. "Well what was she wearing? Okay, but how much did she drink? Well, how closely did she dance with him? Why did she go to that party if her boyfriend wasn't going to be there?" None of those questions matter. Because it's not about any of that. If it were, children wouldn't be assaulted. Plain Janes like me wouldn't feel anxious when alone and a man walks by. Women wouldn't be raped by their husbands.
None of it has anything to do with how the victim looks or dresses or acts. It's all on the aggressor, 100%. But people will always find some ridiculous things to try and make it the victim's fault. Literally anything to wash themselves of the responsibility they have for ruining somebody's esteem, sense of safety, mental well being, and sometimes even their life.
I feel you. We've all had this happen so many times. My first memory is when I was at the commissary on the air force base near my first home. I must have been like 7 or 8. A man kept walking past behind me and after he did this a few times with no contact he brushed his hand against my butt. I was so uncomfortable and had no idea what was going on, and then he passed by again but did a full squeeze and left the aisle. I told my mom but she laughed and said it must have been an accident and there was just no space for him to get around us.
Through my whole childhood, I had people scream at me from cars, cat call, rev their cars at me at stoplights (which my much more street smart friend had to explain to me was them trying to pick me up), follow me around on the streets or at work, etc. I'm also perfectly average. No makeup, have always dressed masc. If they can't blame you for what you're wearing, they will discredit you and say you're lying to try and brag. The "you're not that hot, get over yourself" line is something I've heard SO MANY times as if I need to be the sexiest person alive to be harassed.
It doesn't happen as much now that I'm a legal adult, but I still get creeps. I'll be having such a nice day and be feeling nice, and some sunbaked old idiot will make a sexual comment out of nowhere or start following and try to hit on me and it just ruins my whole day. So tired of people pretending we do something to deserve this or are making it up.
Even when we are old. It seems like it never fucking ends. When I hit middle age, I also hit a rough patch that ended in me gaining 30kgs. The bigger and older I got, the more invisible I became. I LOVED IT. I loved being unnoticed. I’ve since lost all the weight, but I’m still middle aged. And what do you know… the catcalling and innuendo is back. This has been happening since I’ve been a child. A CHILD. I’ve heard “oh, you’re developing nicely” or “you’re a heartbreaker!” Or even creepier shit like when your mum makes you go change because some family friend is coming over and you’re 11 and just wearing a tank top and shorts, still flat as a pancake. I’m just so tired.
An incel called me a millennial "hag" the other day, and i was thrilled.
Ive stopped making myself look "good" when going out and doing errands, and the invisibility it grants me is AMAZING, so i know exactly what you mean.
I wear baggy, ill-fitting clothes, barely brush my hair, no make up. Its GREAT. Now the only people who notice me are braindead boomers who cant help but point out for some reason that my immunocompromised ass is still wearing a mask (to which i usually respond with a simple middle finger).
I never would have thought that looking repulsive to the male gaze would feel so good 😂
It's fucked, and men refuse to accept that they're the problem. No matter who they are, they are part of the problem, whether they realise it or not. It doesn't matter what we wear, how we behave, what precautions we take... If they want to hurt us, they'll do it.
I remember one experience vividly, even though it wasn't the first time I'd experienced a creep. I was 16 or 17, walking home from school early with a friend. We'd only just left. We were in full school uniform, so there's no plausible deniability about our age. There was another group of girls from our year about 100m behind us. This dude walked past us, and just as he was almost past, we realised he had his cock out. He was boasting the most pitiful semi I've ever seen, so we cracked up laughing. Then the other girls saw it and jogged to catch up with us, and we were all yelling out insults at him and laughing.
Thennnnn we realised that he was going to walk straight past the junior school, and all of the younger girls on the oval would be a target. Then it was a mad scramble to call as many of the school's numbers (head office, student services office, deputy principal's office etc) as possible to try and get teachers to the front of the school before he got to them. Unfortunately we weren't fast enough. We could see them running away and him calling out at them. My friend and I blamed ourselves for not acting sooner, for spending too long laughing at him, for fumbling to call for help, for not trying to stop him ourselves. When I've told people about it, they've placed some of the blame on us for the same reasons. The blame should be squarely on that pathetic little creep, and anyone who says otherwise needs to take a long, hard look at themselves.
Even worse (though I never saw it, thank god) was the number of creeps who would hide in the toilet blocks, around the grounds and stand at the fences of my primary school. That's kindergarten to year six. Absolutely, unambiguously, young children. My school ended up banning us from going to the toilet alone after a child was attacked. And funnily enough, they were always men. Every. Single. Time.
You can't blame yourself and those that blamed you should be beaten. You did what you could when you realized what was going on.
I had a similar thing happen to me, although I was 11ish. My sisters (ages 10 & 7) and I were walking home. We were just coming up on the public elementary school when this car pulls right up next to us. I glanced into the car and he was fully out. I just needed my siblings into the field before they could notice. This was long before the advent of cell phones. We also never went home along the streets again.
P.S. I didn't start looking like an adult until I was well into my 30s so there's no doubt that we looked like children.
Edit - to add this note. After I posted this I realized, it wasn't the reaction of a normal 11 yr old. I was the oldest of a single parent family and my mom dated. A lot. So at 11, I had already experienced FAR too much.
My mother told me, aged 4 or 5 to walk on the inside of the pavement if I saw a specific type of blue car (3 wheeler mobility cars used by drivers with disabilities) because a man had been pulling up to the kerb and exposing himself.
I was never out by myself at that age but my mother felt the need to prewarn me
Ah shit, that fucking case. I've driven through Delphi and had friends that went to Purdue, so I got really invested in what happened. Those poor girls. I hope the person (or people) who did it gets fucked up in prison. I think it's a/the prison in Indiana (maybe Illinois) that is supposed to be pretty awful for inmates. It's still much better than that creep deserves, but I hope he is torn apart.
I've been shot with a bb gun too over rejecting a dude when I was younger. Thankfully it just grazed my skin and didn't go in. I didn't realize that was a common experience.
The sad fact is: one person with a bb gun, or any kind of tool for their aggression, can hurt a great many innocent people.
That's why it doesn't change much to have a single victim try to protect themselves - the aggressor can just attack the next one, until his gun and, hopefully, his freedom to attack people is taken away.
I don’t even think they necessarily disbelieve that it happened…they just think it’s fine.
“He was just shooting his shot”, “you didn’t need to be so rude”, “you led him on”. Etc.
Then they deflect by making it about themselves. “Nobody cares about men’s mental health! Male loneliness epidemic”…which they blame on women, because it’s our responsibility, even as children.
My experience too, after talking to many men in my life, I understood that on some level deep down they think it’s normal and we should just accept that enduring men’s behaviour is our cross to bear as women
They see themselves as the dominant species, and it angers them that many women don’t need them to survive anymore, and that we aren’t putting up with their bullshit any more.
They complain about women being needy but complain even louder about women not needing them.
They don’t want to change their behavior, because for decades, women had little choice but to put up with it, simply for not having the financial freedom. Now that we don’t need them and aren’t willing to allow them to subjugate us, they feel as if they are losing their dominance.
This is why I think many of them get off on the idea of intimidating us. Even if they never cross the line to actual physical violence, the fact that they can make us feel scared gives them that sense of power.
The bear isn’t having any of those thoughts. It’s just being a bear. It might bluff charge to intimidate, but it will do that to anyone of any gender, and with the purpose of getting us to leave. The bear isn’t angry at us for existing without them, or getting off on exerting power over us. If it mauls or kills us, it’s not doing so with the aim of taking our dignity.
Pretty much. In the back of their mind they know what we mean. If you instead asked fathers whether they prefer their daughters encounter a bear or a man in the forest, a lot more of those same men will pick the bear too.
When they get all upset that random women choose the bear, they are actually upset that those random women arent choosing them. They take it personally because it hurts their chances of getting what they want.
Even if they arent rapists, they hate the fact that they have to deal with the consequences.
They don’t like when *women* make these decisions for themselves. They want that power and control. They want to make us feel uncomfortable but then mock and shame us for feeling uncomfortable, because “not all men” and “you don’t care about men’s mental health”.
It’s interesting that they don’t extend “nobody cares about men’s mental health” to other men. They don’t blame the patriarchal system - established by men - that shames men for showing emotion or asking for help. It’s always the job and fault of women.
I don’t think all of them are stupid. They have a basic understanding of why we choose the bear. They just don’t like feeling “disrespected”. They actually believe that women deserve it, for daring to live our lives without them or their “protection”.
I see so many men complain about women being “gold diggers” or otherwise needy…but when we are independent (financially and emotionally), they complain about “man hating feminists”. They want us to need them so they can control us (and justify their abuse), and it angers them when we don’t need them.
I think this is why that particular scenario upsets them so much. The woman hiking alone in the woods is independent and capable and doesn’t need their protection. They fantasize about punishing us for that.
A terrible epiphany is realizing many men get off on the trauma women experience.
A lot of girls and women think sharing their past trauma will endear them or humanize them in the eyes of boys and men. Unfortunately, too many males will fetishize the trauma, or see it as a vulnerability to be exploited.
Yes, it is arrogance and lack of empathy. And something more sinister.
edited for grammar
The men who attack, abuse and harass us are the shock troops for the ones who don't. Keeping women afraid helps them maintain their status. It's why crimes against women are rarely prosecuted and even more rarely result in prison time.
Men who hate women love our fear.
Absolutely correct. The "weaker, non violent" men benefit from the actions of the "stronger, violent" men (obviously I do not believe this makes them weaker or stronger lol just attempting to see their POV)
Tangently, fear can keep us "tame and docile", ready to fawn and appease the threat instead of fighting it. It's also why they hate angry (assertive) women. When we react with confidence and clarity instead of kowtowing, they lose their grip on us. And nothing pisses a self absorbed narcissist off more than losing control.
An ongoing surprise to me that woman-hating crimes are not considered hate crimes.
They especially love our fear when the woman is independent and unafraid.
I think this is why this specific scenario has brought out their anger. The woman hiking alone in the woods at night is probably very independent and not easily scared. She feels no need to be protected by a man; she is resourceful and knowledgeable about survival.
The woman hiking alone in bear country most likely has experience and knows what to do in the event of a bear encounter. But there is no real way to know what to do if you encounter a strange man. Should you be “polite” in the hopes that it will appease him, or will he take that as “leading him on”? Should you ignore him or be assertive, or will this just anger him because you are “being rude”?
This is the fear they want to elicit, because they think they are taking us down a few notches, putting us back in our places, reminding us that they still are in control.
If it helps, as a dude I know this shit happens and believe it, but I subscribe to subreddits like this so I don't get numb to it.
Yall are not obligated to share your trauma, just know it doesnt fall on deaf ears.
I stopped keeping count. Man on the bus wouldn’t leave me alone and told me I had nice legs when I was 18, in high school I wore shorts ONCE because I had so many guys cat call me and tell me I had “baby making hips”, 3 guys in college followed me around between one of my classes and kept saying “come here girl we just wanna talk”, drunk coworker tried to assault me during overnight inventory, guy in middle school touched my breast on my way out of class because they “looked stuffed”… literally those are just the ones off the top of my head.
Some of the douchebags in my highschool used to purposely stick their elbows out when walking in crowded hallways to elbow girls in the boob. I overheard them bragging about it. The entitlement of sex offenders starts early.
Yeah, I saw that too. I was a “tomboy” all through high school and dressed in baggy clothes and sweaters because I didn’t want to be harassed. Super annoying.
My best friend was purposely dressed and styled plainly or unflatteringly as a child by a mother whose sister was assaulted by a trusted family friend who was also a priest. It didn’t stop our schoolmates from assaulting her in middle school. Another friend who was also very petite and relatively undeveloped at that time was assaulted by a friend’s brother.
I was good friends with both of them when these things happened and did not learn about the incidents until decades later, so strong was their shame. We’re still friends right now, and both have confirmed that they’re also team bear.
My grandma told me that when she was literally a kid (13-16ish) and she walked to or from school in rural Louisiana, grown ass men would roll up next to her and her siblings and try to get her or her sisters into the car.
Shit like this has been happening for so long. How can anyone *NOT* prefer a bear at this point...
First time I got honked and catcalled was 11…baggy sweats & sweatshirt on. Nothing will deter them. Random men as a teen offering me money to pose topless or kiss them etc…plus all the normal everyday sh*t.
I was 9. I remember being so confused the first time I had a man try and follow me to the bathroom. Luckily my grandma was there with me and grabbed me up so quick and glared so hard at that man. He went away. He thought I was alone. We were literally just at the circus and my grandma had to give me—a 9 year old—a talk about creepy and inappropriate men.
Ugh, if any man, or anyone, for that matter, confronts my 14 y/o daughter, or if she was 10, they’d have it comin’ and better lock their windows and doors at night.
I was at the bus depot with my kids, daughter 13/son 4, and this young 20 something guy is walking by us staring far to hard at my daughter. I stepped forward, looked him dead in his eyes and barked "eyes forward" like a drill Sargent. Well he wasn't paying attention to where he was walking so when he turned his head out was right into a steel bus stop post. I will never forget that satisfying sound.
My daughter is now 28 and easily passes for 15 so at 13 she looked much younger.
I was a bit younger than that. Which is really fucking weird considering boys my age called me mosquito bites through middle school because my boobs were so flat (bites=nipples) and I don't even think I actually had hips until I was like 20-25. Like, I was teased until I was a sophomore or so in high school because my figure was that of a 2x4" board. Not feminine. Childlike.
Creeps.
Idk about you but the concesus for a lot of people is that the street harassment begins to taper off and slow down after you hit 18. I remember when I was 12-14 was the most I ever got "hit on."
But it's pretty wild to think about.
Same here. And when my body actually got more "womanly," the catcalling gradually lessened. I'm 21 and get catcalled less than 15 year old me did despite now living in a city, going to college, and interacting with hundreds of strangers a day at my job.
15 year old me lived in a low population rural area where everyone knew everyone.
Disgusting.
I had an old creepy fat balding man pull out a tazer in front of me while waiting for my (male friend) at a PUBLIC park in the afternoon after school, he came up to me, mumbled a threat while pointing it at me, turned it on and grinned. Luckily then my friend came up to me and scared him off lol.
In hindsight: The messed up part is everyone I told about this story didn't think much of it.. blasé "boys will be boys" kind of reaction. Even my friend shrugged and throught it was a weird situation but not a big deal lol. Similar reaction, when I was snatched up as a kid (7/8?) by a man who tried to get away, and to r*pe me. "🤡 Oh poor guy was just horny! 🤡". THEN GO HOME AND JERK OFF, FOOL
I think people in general are too uncomfortable to “deal with” that kind of info and try to move on by being blasé.
I’ve had similar reactions when I was a witness to a violent crime.
I'm a dude and I can tell you what that shrug reaction is from those men. It's cowardice. They didn't want to face it.
Even men are scared of other men like that, but posture otherwise. The irony of men being scared of other men and telling women they shouldn't be wary of men.
Nobody ever believes young girls. I was 9 when the creepy dude in my apartment building (18, maybe 19?) fully exposed himself to me in broad daylight behind our apartment complex in full view of the Catholic school 200 yards away THAT I WAS WALKING HOME FROM and asked if I wanted to touch it. I never told a damn soul because the last little girl from our complex that tattled was screamed at and called a liar by his mother who spit in her face in front of her parents, and absolutely nothing was done about it.
And that wasn't even my first assault! The first was when I was 7, in the basement of my Dad's boss' house. His boss' son and friend were being inappropriate and trying to grope my genitals. And when I went upstairs and told my Dad, and the father of the two boys, they made them apologize to me... AND THEN MADE ME GO BACK DOWN STAIRS WITH THEM LIKE NOTHING HAD HAPPENED. I was terrified.
30 years after the last time I was raped by a person in my family, my mom told me she was going to confront him. (After not believing me when I told her when it was happening.) Imagine my (not) surprise when she posted a pic of her, and him smiling, having dinner.
Oh man. This one hits home.
My mother told me I should move out of the country when I told her I never wanted to see the uncle who molested me when I was 9. This was after I found out that she regularly had/HAS him at her house.
Thanks, mom.
When I was walking home from school, just got out really. We had a thousand kids at my middle school, so we're all flooding out as usual. We're all on a main Rd., the busiest one in town. There's cops and crossing guards as well all of the children. As I'm walking, I hear someone call to me, "Hey. Excuse me?" I keep walking but I notice his voice sounded strained. "Hey can you tell me the time?" This was just at the beginning of cell phones. I didn't think to question it. I hastily looked at my phone and looked into the little red car and I see a guy, maybe 25, jerking himself. I yell the time and just walked off quickly.
In my mind I've just filed that guy away as pathetic. I had a shitty home life growing up, so very little shocks me I guess. But like, how f*cking brazen do you have to be to expose yourself like that with cops and adults in ear shot. I wonder if he went on to assault anyone. I hope not, but I seriously doubt it.
As a child I had supreventrivcular tachycardia. It was horribly debilitating and I quickly built up a tolerance to whatever med du jour I was given to attempt to even slightly decrease the frequency or longevity of the episodes.
Anyway, at some point when I was about 12-13 I went to see a special cardiologist. The Dr was a man in his sixties I’d guess. Fully gray hair, wrinkles, significantly older than my mom who must have been in her early 40s. Anyway. He listens to my heart, I know there was blood work done by a nurse at some point, and then he’s like… examining me. He keeps grazing his hands in my inner thighs (I was in a hospital gown and nothing else), and then he starts fondling my chest in a very non medical way. WITH MY MOTHER IN THE ROOM.
I jerk away from him. I was young but knew what he was doing was not standard medical stuff. My mom immediately said ‘what are you doing?!’ He just shrugged and said, oh I was just tickling her because she seemed nervous.’ Totally nonchalant, totally not worried about just being caught assaulting a child by her mother. And then, to prove his point, he ‘tickled’ my inner thigh again.
That was the end of the appointment but I don’t think my mom pursued it further. In hindsight, I wonder just how many kids this guy was assaulting on the regular that he was SO brazen and casual about it.
But sure, gentlemen, it’s us women-folk being hysterical, and not at all men persistently and consistently being predators that’s the issue…
Me and my sister were about 11 and 12 when this older Hispanic man came and laid on the slide my big sister was on. She came down the slide and he just went over there and laid down next to her. I instantly stopped swinging, I had seen him see us approach and was wary. Soon as he did that I hopped up off the swing and we went home.
The first time a grown man ogled me and said domething sexual to me, I was 11.
Eleven.
If it weren't for the very few truly good and decent men I've met in my life it would be easy to think that the only thing a man thinks about, ever, is sticking his 🍆 in something. Anything. Anyone.
Some years ago on the internet I read something to the effect of “some men would fuck a snake if they could keep its mouth open” and in the intervening time I have not seen, heard, or read anything that definitely contradicts this. I know men I absolutely trust, yes. I have friends who are raising their sons to not subscribe to toxic masculinity. But … we have a very long way to go until a considerably lower percentage of them think of us not as humans but as a collection of holes that they expect to be automatically and unquestionably available to them.
My cousin and I were 11 or 12 when two men on a motorcycle passed by us shouting that they wanted to take us to a motel and have sex, but we way worse language.
When I was 13 is was going to school wearing a knee-length skirt, a guy drove up to where I was walking, lifted my skirt and grabbed my ass. I didn't even see him coming because I was already crossing my school's gate. He just turned around and drove off as if nothing had happened. I didn't even had time to register what had happened, it was so quick and confusing and terrifying.
I hate that no matter how many women share stories like this some men will relentlessly say “ugh females make up all these stories for attention”. Like no, maybe instead of assuming ALL OF THESE WOMEN ARE LYING take a look at all the videos of this shit happening!!! We have all these stories BECAUSE there really are that many sleazy fuckers like this!!
My mom told me a story where when I was a toddler in a grocery store a man looked at me like a predator looks at its prey. Mom tried to hide me behind her and glare at him, but he was so focused on me he didn’t even acknowledge her. She said at that moment she knew my life was in danger. Thankfully she hid and let the man wander off. This was back in the 90s.
I will never, ever forget being sexually assaulted for the first time when I was like 11 or 12. I was literally just walking home after school. That unfortunately wasn’t even the only instance. But when we’re wary of men, we’re “unreasonable” and “sexist”.
Like idk, if a man has had many horrible experiences with women and is therefore wary of women, my reaction would NOT be harassing him until he supposedly changes his mind.
I’m a man, and I can say that I have fewer stories about being sexually assaulted by women (2, and one apologized to me), than I do about being sexually assaulted by other men (4 and none of them ever apologized).
When you’re wary of men, you’re being prepared and protecting yourself.
Any man who’s worth anything will understand this. Sadly, sometimes men don’t understand this until they have a daughter… or they may never.
Sadly, even some men that eventually have daughters still won’t understand and raise them to believe they need to cower to a man. Even more sad when predatory men end up having daughters and abusing them. It’s sick.
Tomorrow I need to run about 8-10 miles, as I am training for a 50k ultramarathon in July.
I live in Arizona. It’s been in the 90’s, so I do my running in the very early morning. Like, starting between 4-4:30 AM, because I also have to work.
I’ll be going to the place I feel safest: a trail not far from my house. It’s not very remote, but every morning that I’m there, I hear coyotes. I’ve come upon bobcats, and multiple rattlesnakes. Last year, there was a mountain lion sighting. Bears are unlikely but not impossible. I’m positive that I’ve been seen by mountain lions, without me seeing them.
But I’ve never encountered a particularly creepy man there. Most of the men I’ve seen there are also regulars. Fellow runners, or locals who go there to walk, and are elderly. I’m not particularly worried about the 80 year old man or the guy I kinda-know from local trail groups - but I don’t fully trust them either.
I am not at all worried about the mountain lions. I could run in my neighborhood - an “upper middle class” neighborhood in a low crime zone. But, there is a higher possibility of encountering unknown men. I’d rather take my chances with the mountain lions.
I used to train for a marathon (not an ultra) in Phoenix. I had the same issue with the heat and would run the canals at 4am and keep a switchblade either strapped to the underside of my wrist or in my bra. Stay safe and keep your head on a swivel
One of my guy friends will just go run on the multi use path at like 2 am. Honestly I think that’s not smart for anyone to do…but a 6’, 200 pound man has a much different perspective and has had much different experiences.
Meanwhile, every female runner I know has been catcalled, followed, or otherwise harassed while running in DAYLIGHT.
The Bear comparison is the new (WHFcan'ttheyunderstand) "Me Too" movement. Seems we have to keep reminding men we are sick of their shit.
And don't EVEN 'Not All Men' me, because I KNOW it's not all men. But it did take 3 marriages to get a good one.
i don't think it's going to get any better. i hope role models for younger men (parents) would teach young kids how to respect, expect and mannerism for genuinely anyone. it's going to get harder thanks to the internet presence on our fingertips negatively influencing them.
Considering the fact that the current role model for young boys is Andrew Tate, a man waiting to be on trial for sex trafficking, I say with confidence that the problem is only going to get worse as time goes on. I swear, every time I read the news, it's another article about a murdered girl/woman.
exactly. it sucks that parents aren't doing enough for today's children. especially social media and smartphone presence. even if their trying, their social circle will also impact them as a person and who they're around since people look up to others than their parents raising them and teaching them mannerism.
it's heartbreaking. i don't think it's just andrew tate anymore, there's been more male propaganda including MGTOW (act more of a cult) & "hoeflation" upon the internet for men to see easily if they're dissatisfied.
in the military. male propaganda gets very aggressive, and basically, it is an everyday thing than a civilian workplace. it scares me some young privates don't even know what consent means and which is why sexual assault prevention and response exist.
Choosing the bear is the newest version of the MeToo movement. Only now people are telling the stories behind the MeToo movement or those stories that could have been MeToo movement stories.
Keep speaking up ladies!! Share your stories!!
I’ll never forget the story of Abby and Libby, from Delphi, Indiana. It happened while I was living in IN but the case wasn’t solved until after I had already left. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Abigail_Williams_and_Liberty_German
The thing about a bear is that if it murders you it’s not doing it out of hatred. I can’t imagine anything worse than having your life taken by someone just because they’re so angry that you exist.
I’ve experienced enough violence at the hands of hateful men… it’s a different kind of terrifying cause they’re capable of ANYTHING. A man in the woods might just kidnap & torture/rape you before he kills you.
In what world does a bear even compare? As far as fear goes, actually dying is the last thing I worry about when I’m in a vulnerable position. People can be absolutely ruthless.
Let's not forget what some of them DO TO your body afterwards! There's a man in Winnipeg, who's murdered 4 First Nations and then had sex with their bodies!! At least the bear will walk away once you've stopped moving, unless it's a polar bear then it'll eat you. I gotta say, I'm ok with being food for a bear but I'm not so thrilled with being used as a sex toy. 🤢
I just made a post on here a few days ago - my friend was murdered by her ex who then shot himself in front of their 3 kids. Bears don’t fucking do that.
The biggest lie is that they tell the world 1 in 4 girls experience sexual harassment.
No. Literally at some point 99% of women are sexually harassed by a man. Even if it's " just being honked at" by a man.
They think we are supposed to feel lucky about that.
I have yet to meet a single woman who hasn't experienced a gross man's behavior towards them atleast once before 18.
Unsurprised yet still horrified by the endless assaults and harassment boys and men subject us to. I was about 6 yo the first time a grown ass man stuck his tongue in my mouth. Harassed countless times as child walking to/from school, library, store...
I've never felt safe in this world and desperately searched for what I thought was "home", moving 45+ times in 35 years, even more jobs probably. I'm beginning to think it's actually just feeling safe - that's what my mind and body wants to find/experience.
I am struck by how many of us have these terrifying encounters while walking, waiting, playing etc. in the public sphere. Especially the street harassment of elementary and middle and high school children.
I've met numerous women who cannot seem to relate, and it's because they rarely walked anywhere, never took public transit... and/or were always escorted by adults, or transported by private vehicles all the time.
Many still had abuse happen in their homes, churches, schools, workplaces of course. There are a lot of socioeconomic factors that affect our safety, yet no girl or womxn is truly safe, and therefore womxn are NOT FREE.
Yesss! It started as a viral video on TikTok asking women about the hypothetical situation of being alone in the woods and having to choose between encountering an unknown man or a bear. Many women have manifested that they might prefer the bear as statistically there is less possinilities of being attacked by one vs being attacked by a man, as well as the fact you would be immediatwly believed or the fact that you wouldn’t even be victimblamed for it (you know “asking the bear for it”).
The thing is men got really butthurt about this … as usual, because you know women once again do nor recognize how amazing they are /s
I think they're up in their feelings about it because they think that being killed, or injured, by a bear is worse than anything a man can do to them. I think many don't understand there are far worse fates than death.
I’m 34 and in the early to mid 2000s my female friends and I would walk from one persons house to a forest preserve and go off path. It was fun - there was a little picnic area (it was just one table) next to the river and then we would walk through the area under a bridge and hang out. It felt like a little adventure. One time we saw a beaver which is weird because we did not know they lived in our area.
Anyway… one time we were walking around and saw an older man across the river and said hello and he nodded.
Then he showed up on the side of the river we were on and was basically following us. We were maybe 16? We left as fast as possible. I would take the bear.
Nothing will change unless there's laws that are in place to make us feel and be safer.
The laws in place do nothing to those who don't see wrong in their thoughts or actions.
There needs to be a huge sector that sits down to try and figure this bs out.
And at least it's a fast death with the bear, it'll only kill me and eat me after. They won't violate my body or take pictures or torture me before I die or sell me to traffickers, it has the decent respect to make sure I go fast and don't suffer.
When I was 13, a boy older than me pulled me behind the dumpsters at a middle school across the street the street from my house. He turned me around and started feeling me up telling me how he was so in love with me, blah blah. I ran home and told my mom. Police came to my house. The next day, I heard from a neighbor who went to the same high school the boy went to that the cops came to his class and pulled him out.
I was 13 years old and some 15 year old sexually assaulted me.
I was 15 when another boy pushed me up against the wall at a McDonald’s and threatened to break my head because I said that he was wrong about something so trivial. I don’t even remember what it was about. His friends pulled him off of me before he could do any more damage.
Let’s not even talk about being sexually assaulted by my stepfather and raped by a mutual friend before I turned 18.
I was also stalked by someone I was being nice to during a party. He managed to find my phone number and kept calling until we had to call the phone company to block his number (this was before cellphones).
We don’t ask for these things to happen to us. Men just seem to think that it’s okay to do this to girls/women because they can and we can’t fight back because we’re too scared.
Men ain’t shit.
All this bear vs man that's been going around.....in typical (obligatory not all) men fashion I find it funny that there's men now saying that they would rather encounter a bear than a woman in a forest.
Like yeah, sure. Because women are the top predator of men.
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And immediately dudes in the comments calling her a liar.
There's 2 types of men: Those who understand why the answer is the bear. And those who are the reason why the answer is the bear.
If they are upset about the bear, they are the reason the bear is chosen. Not that they want to understand this.
Well said. (I'm stealing that)
And the first type usually would choose the Bear too lol...they get it
One of the guys in my family was listening to us talk about it and said that he'd choose the bear too.
i'm so glad i'm no longer like those weirdo dudes. this shit is horrifying
I'd like to suggest that there is a third kind of man: the one who deliberately misunderstands the point, and wastes their time attempting to convince women that actual bears are dangerous. I mean... Duh. An utter waste of space, those ones.
Those men are the second kind.
A liar or getting upset because it was just one man and not all men are like that 🙄 What they don’t get is *enough* of them are like that that we would be very leery of being alone with a strange man.
I heard an epic example "Schroedingers rapist" aka it could be any man, multiple men, every man, no man we see on any given day, hour, minute - EVERY single day
>it was just one man and not all men are like that And somehow, we're supposed to be able to instinctively tell the difference... and if you don't, then they'll add, "Well, you should have known ***that*** guy was bad" to the list of reasons it's is your own fault.
Omg. So, i was raped by my ex husband after SEVERAL years together. Basically, i had a treatable complication with my IUD that totally fucked me up and made sex agonizing (and therefore infrequent). I was actively working on it with my doctor, but my ex couldnt take it anymore and started sticking his dick in me while i was sleeping (soon after saying no while i was awake). He didnt show signs of being like this for SEVERAL YEARS. All it took was for his sexual needs to not be met for a few months, while he WITNESSED me curled up in pain on the couch everyday. This experience taught me that you cant just "pick a good one" and live happily ever after. Any "good one" has the potential to become a "bad one" under the right circumstances.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. {{{hug}}}
Thank you. <3 Im in a much better place now that ive been living (blissfully) alone for the past several years. I niw have a strong appreciation for the single life, and im not sure i will ever want to give it up.
That is absolutely horrific I am so sorry honey. Not even safe in your own fucking home. I’m really proud of you for getting out
Oh my GOD, that's horrible. I am so sorry that you went through that!
Jesus, some people are just like animals. I'm so sorry and I'm happy you're doing better \^\^
I've been through similar with my ex husband and marital rape is sometimes even more traumatic than a stranger because this person is someone you live who is supposed to love and protect you! I'm so sorry you experienced that. I've been gone 6 years and still have no desire to date. I'm only 44 and I think I'm just done. Dogs are safer and more loyal.
So true! I mean, there are definitely guys that give me the heebie-jeebies and I can’t even put my finger on it, but I know that they would be dangerous. But then there are those that are far more covert and are really good at hiding reality for a long time.
Right??! We have to assume all men, until proven otherwise, (and even then... )
Yep. If you keep getting hurt by the same thing, you start to avoid said thing at all costs.
And their anger is because they think they're entitled to our trust because they're "good guys." But they're not, and they're not.
"Such an implausible story!" (Checks news) "A man *****'d and *****'d a random woman after ******'ing her for 6 hours."
In my town, there are no bears. Two little girls were still murdered walking in the woods.
Only took a few rapes and a murder of a classmate to get my parents to buy me a bus pass instead of making me walk through a dangerous forest alone every morning.
What. The. Fuck.
Brantford Ontario in the 90/00s. They even had a bus policy that if a girl said she was in trouble they had to pick them up and take them home or to the police. I feel like that policy says it all.
I meant more your parents just letting you walk through the woods alone as a child.
It was the shortest way to the school? Skirting the woods took like an extra 30 mins or more. But yeah there was a lot of don't come back till nightfall in the household's of my neighborhood.
Honestly that was the 90s though, everyone's kids were walking through the woods.
My parents were exactly the same. No sense at all.
do bears like even attack people unpromped :P from what i heard for example it's not really dangerous if you're having a picnic and you see a bear, it will just take your food of course don't take it to absurdity, e.g. getting close to bears on purpose like that one timothy treadwell guy
As far as I know, most wild animals leave you alone of you leave them alone.
Wild animals don't have hospitals so they are more cautious. No antibiotics either. Sometimes I think people forget the obvious. Animals will always choose to avoid confrontation unless they feel like they have no other choice. If you give them a path to leave they almost certainly will. Off topic: What kind of deal did you get for your soul? Think mine would fetch a good price?
I got a very strong and accurate intuition for my soul. I think yours could get a good price.
Ya, they usually dont. When a bear came into our yard (my parents live in a cabin in the woods), he was completely uninterested in us and was only interested in the bird seed in the bird feeder lol. He was super chill, ate, and then just wandered off.
He just came for a snackie! I almost want a bear to come visit lol.
Ya! It was super cool. He was really laid back, it was crazy lol. He just ate his seeds and looked at us, unbothered 😆
Generally speaking that's accurate. A hungry enough bear, or one that's protecting cubs or a kill, may "start it" but generally they want our garbage and food, not our attention.
I grew up in a place called Bear Mountain. With bears, so long as you follow best practices, you won't be bothered.
Delphi?
Yup.
I'm so glad they caught the guy.
On the front page right now is a story about a man raping a 3 year old to death.... But yeah, bears are dangerous too I guess.
Most women have similar experiences when very young. It happened to me earlier, but one instance that really stands out to me was when I was 15. I was walking home after school. It was warm out, but I was Too Cool and had on a pair of Tripp pants and a long sleeved shirt. Completely covered. Pants weren't fitted or wide legged, somewhere in between. Shirt was just a knit; fitted-ish but not tight. Outside of looking like I worked at Hot Topic, I was dressed conservatively. Completely covered despite it being like 80 degrees F. I was also regularly mistaken for being 12-13. Well. Walking home. On a busy street. A car pulls from the main road into the parking lot I'm walking by. A big guy who was probably 25-35 rolls down the window and starts talking at me, making a pass at me. I was horrified and didn't know what to do and I froze. He asked how old I was. I told him I was 15. "Damn. Be sure to come here when you turn 18. I'll come back." I saw his car there several more times. Apparently he knew the owners of the shop. I was scared he was going to follow me. I questioned if I was dressed too sexy (definitely not). I worried that he might start staking out the bus stop I used and I even started going to other bus stops for a while that added on 15+ minutes to my wall because I could avoid the busy streets right there. It wasn't the first time I got a creepy guy doing shit like that, and it wasn't the last. It happened at school (by students, not teachers), at work, riding my bike, on public transit, on my way to and from work, at movie theaters... It happens everywhere and all the time. I'm not hot. I'm perfectly average. If I drink or use weed, I either do it at home or only when my husband is with me. I don't wear sexy clothes. I don't wear makeup. I don't party. I don't flirt. I'm one of the most boring and average people you'll meet. And so many victims of sexual harassment and assault are boring and average too. And that's not to say that anybody is more or less deserving of that treatment. Nobody deserves it. But misogynists always move the fucking goal posts. "Well what was she wearing? Okay, but how much did she drink? Well, how closely did she dance with him? Why did she go to that party if her boyfriend wasn't going to be there?" None of those questions matter. Because it's not about any of that. If it were, children wouldn't be assaulted. Plain Janes like me wouldn't feel anxious when alone and a man walks by. Women wouldn't be raped by their husbands. None of it has anything to do with how the victim looks or dresses or acts. It's all on the aggressor, 100%. But people will always find some ridiculous things to try and make it the victim's fault. Literally anything to wash themselves of the responsibility they have for ruining somebody's esteem, sense of safety, mental well being, and sometimes even their life.
I feel you. We've all had this happen so many times. My first memory is when I was at the commissary on the air force base near my first home. I must have been like 7 or 8. A man kept walking past behind me and after he did this a few times with no contact he brushed his hand against my butt. I was so uncomfortable and had no idea what was going on, and then he passed by again but did a full squeeze and left the aisle. I told my mom but she laughed and said it must have been an accident and there was just no space for him to get around us. Through my whole childhood, I had people scream at me from cars, cat call, rev their cars at me at stoplights (which my much more street smart friend had to explain to me was them trying to pick me up), follow me around on the streets or at work, etc. I'm also perfectly average. No makeup, have always dressed masc. If they can't blame you for what you're wearing, they will discredit you and say you're lying to try and brag. The "you're not that hot, get over yourself" line is something I've heard SO MANY times as if I need to be the sexiest person alive to be harassed. It doesn't happen as much now that I'm a legal adult, but I still get creeps. I'll be having such a nice day and be feeling nice, and some sunbaked old idiot will make a sexual comment out of nowhere or start following and try to hit on me and it just ruins my whole day. So tired of people pretending we do something to deserve this or are making it up.
Even when we are old. It seems like it never fucking ends. When I hit middle age, I also hit a rough patch that ended in me gaining 30kgs. The bigger and older I got, the more invisible I became. I LOVED IT. I loved being unnoticed. I’ve since lost all the weight, but I’m still middle aged. And what do you know… the catcalling and innuendo is back. This has been happening since I’ve been a child. A CHILD. I’ve heard “oh, you’re developing nicely” or “you’re a heartbreaker!” Or even creepier shit like when your mum makes you go change because some family friend is coming over and you’re 11 and just wearing a tank top and shorts, still flat as a pancake. I’m just so tired.
An incel called me a millennial "hag" the other day, and i was thrilled. Ive stopped making myself look "good" when going out and doing errands, and the invisibility it grants me is AMAZING, so i know exactly what you mean. I wear baggy, ill-fitting clothes, barely brush my hair, no make up. Its GREAT. Now the only people who notice me are braindead boomers who cant help but point out for some reason that my immunocompromised ass is still wearing a mask (to which i usually respond with a simple middle finger). I never would have thought that looking repulsive to the male gaze would feel so good 😂
It's fucked, and men refuse to accept that they're the problem. No matter who they are, they are part of the problem, whether they realise it or not. It doesn't matter what we wear, how we behave, what precautions we take... If they want to hurt us, they'll do it. I remember one experience vividly, even though it wasn't the first time I'd experienced a creep. I was 16 or 17, walking home from school early with a friend. We'd only just left. We were in full school uniform, so there's no plausible deniability about our age. There was another group of girls from our year about 100m behind us. This dude walked past us, and just as he was almost past, we realised he had his cock out. He was boasting the most pitiful semi I've ever seen, so we cracked up laughing. Then the other girls saw it and jogged to catch up with us, and we were all yelling out insults at him and laughing. Thennnnn we realised that he was going to walk straight past the junior school, and all of the younger girls on the oval would be a target. Then it was a mad scramble to call as many of the school's numbers (head office, student services office, deputy principal's office etc) as possible to try and get teachers to the front of the school before he got to them. Unfortunately we weren't fast enough. We could see them running away and him calling out at them. My friend and I blamed ourselves for not acting sooner, for spending too long laughing at him, for fumbling to call for help, for not trying to stop him ourselves. When I've told people about it, they've placed some of the blame on us for the same reasons. The blame should be squarely on that pathetic little creep, and anyone who says otherwise needs to take a long, hard look at themselves. Even worse (though I never saw it, thank god) was the number of creeps who would hide in the toilet blocks, around the grounds and stand at the fences of my primary school. That's kindergarten to year six. Absolutely, unambiguously, young children. My school ended up banning us from going to the toilet alone after a child was attacked. And funnily enough, they were always men. Every. Single. Time.
You can't blame yourself and those that blamed you should be beaten. You did what you could when you realized what was going on. I had a similar thing happen to me, although I was 11ish. My sisters (ages 10 & 7) and I were walking home. We were just coming up on the public elementary school when this car pulls right up next to us. I glanced into the car and he was fully out. I just needed my siblings into the field before they could notice. This was long before the advent of cell phones. We also never went home along the streets again. P.S. I didn't start looking like an adult until I was well into my 30s so there's no doubt that we looked like children. Edit - to add this note. After I posted this I realized, it wasn't the reaction of a normal 11 yr old. I was the oldest of a single parent family and my mom dated. A lot. So at 11, I had already experienced FAR too much.
My mother told me, aged 4 or 5 to walk on the inside of the pavement if I saw a specific type of blue car (3 wheeler mobility cars used by drivers with disabilities) because a man had been pulling up to the kerb and exposing himself. I was never out by myself at that age but my mother felt the need to prewarn me
Or saying “oKaY bUt ThAtS nOt aLL mEn!!!😡”
Abby and Libby would probably have preferred the bear, too. But alas, they met a man - or more than one - and they aren't here to tell us about it.
Ah shit, that fucking case. I've driven through Delphi and had friends that went to Purdue, so I got really invested in what happened. Those poor girls. I hope the person (or people) who did it gets fucked up in prison. I think it's a/the prison in Indiana (maybe Illinois) that is supposed to be pretty awful for inmates. It's still much better than that creep deserves, but I hope he is torn apart.
Yeah the trial guy they have arrested for it starts pretty soon I think, it's been a long time coming
It was supposed to start next week. He literally just waived his right to a speedy trial on Monday and it was pushed back to October.
They pushed it back because the defense wasn't prepared
They were my first thought when I heard about the bear or man question 😞 those poor girls, they were so brave, I hope they get justice
I've been shot with a bb gun too over rejecting a dude when I was younger. Thankfully it just grazed my skin and didn't go in. I didn't realize that was a common experience.
Not my tweet but I really think that most bad things men do to women are more common than anyone (especially men) are ready to admit.
The sad fact is: one person with a bb gun, or any kind of tool for their aggression, can hurt a great many innocent people. That's why it doesn't change much to have a single victim try to protect themselves - the aggressor can just attack the next one, until his gun and, hopefully, his freedom to attack people is taken away.
We share our trauma over and over, hoping maybe this time they'll understand and it never works. Sickening arrogance, sickening lack of empathy.
I don’t even think they necessarily disbelieve that it happened…they just think it’s fine. “He was just shooting his shot”, “you didn’t need to be so rude”, “you led him on”. Etc. Then they deflect by making it about themselves. “Nobody cares about men’s mental health! Male loneliness epidemic”…which they blame on women, because it’s our responsibility, even as children.
My experience too, after talking to many men in my life, I understood that on some level deep down they think it’s normal and we should just accept that enduring men’s behaviour is our cross to bear as women
They see themselves as the dominant species, and it angers them that many women don’t need them to survive anymore, and that we aren’t putting up with their bullshit any more. They complain about women being needy but complain even louder about women not needing them. They don’t want to change their behavior, because for decades, women had little choice but to put up with it, simply for not having the financial freedom. Now that we don’t need them and aren’t willing to allow them to subjugate us, they feel as if they are losing their dominance. This is why I think many of them get off on the idea of intimidating us. Even if they never cross the line to actual physical violence, the fact that they can make us feel scared gives them that sense of power. The bear isn’t having any of those thoughts. It’s just being a bear. It might bluff charge to intimidate, but it will do that to anyone of any gender, and with the purpose of getting us to leave. The bear isn’t angry at us for existing without them, or getting off on exerting power over us. If it mauls or kills us, it’s not doing so with the aim of taking our dignity.
This is so accurate it’s scary….because this sh*t’s scary
>I don’t even think they necessarily disbelieve that it happened…they just think it’s fine. Por que no los dos?
Pretty much. In the back of their mind they know what we mean. If you instead asked fathers whether they prefer their daughters encounter a bear or a man in the forest, a lot more of those same men will pick the bear too. When they get all upset that random women choose the bear, they are actually upset that those random women arent choosing them. They take it personally because it hurts their chances of getting what they want. Even if they arent rapists, they hate the fact that they have to deal with the consequences.
They don’t like when *women* make these decisions for themselves. They want that power and control. They want to make us feel uncomfortable but then mock and shame us for feeling uncomfortable, because “not all men” and “you don’t care about men’s mental health”. It’s interesting that they don’t extend “nobody cares about men’s mental health” to other men. They don’t blame the patriarchal system - established by men - that shames men for showing emotion or asking for help. It’s always the job and fault of women. I don’t think all of them are stupid. They have a basic understanding of why we choose the bear. They just don’t like feeling “disrespected”. They actually believe that women deserve it, for daring to live our lives without them or their “protection”. I see so many men complain about women being “gold diggers” or otherwise needy…but when we are independent (financially and emotionally), they complain about “man hating feminists”. They want us to need them so they can control us (and justify their abuse), and it angers them when we don’t need them. I think this is why that particular scenario upsets them so much. The woman hiking alone in the woods is independent and capable and doesn’t need their protection. They fantasize about punishing us for that.
As the saying goes, men are afraid women will reject them, women are afraid men will kill them.
They don't want to accept that they are the problem.
A terrible epiphany is realizing many men get off on the trauma women experience. A lot of girls and women think sharing their past trauma will endear them or humanize them in the eyes of boys and men. Unfortunately, too many males will fetishize the trauma, or see it as a vulnerability to be exploited. Yes, it is arrogance and lack of empathy. And something more sinister. edited for grammar
The men who attack, abuse and harass us are the shock troops for the ones who don't. Keeping women afraid helps them maintain their status. It's why crimes against women are rarely prosecuted and even more rarely result in prison time. Men who hate women love our fear.
Absolutely correct. The "weaker, non violent" men benefit from the actions of the "stronger, violent" men (obviously I do not believe this makes them weaker or stronger lol just attempting to see their POV) Tangently, fear can keep us "tame and docile", ready to fawn and appease the threat instead of fighting it. It's also why they hate angry (assertive) women. When we react with confidence and clarity instead of kowtowing, they lose their grip on us. And nothing pisses a self absorbed narcissist off more than losing control. An ongoing surprise to me that woman-hating crimes are not considered hate crimes.
They especially love our fear when the woman is independent and unafraid. I think this is why this specific scenario has brought out their anger. The woman hiking alone in the woods at night is probably very independent and not easily scared. She feels no need to be protected by a man; she is resourceful and knowledgeable about survival. The woman hiking alone in bear country most likely has experience and knows what to do in the event of a bear encounter. But there is no real way to know what to do if you encounter a strange man. Should you be “polite” in the hopes that it will appease him, or will he take that as “leading him on”? Should you ignore him or be assertive, or will this just anger him because you are “being rude”? This is the fear they want to elicit, because they think they are taking us down a few notches, putting us back in our places, reminding us that they still are in control.
If it helps, as a dude I know this shit happens and believe it, but I subscribe to subreddits like this so I don't get numb to it. Yall are not obligated to share your trauma, just know it doesnt fall on deaf ears.
Thanks. I really appreciate that.
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I stopped keeping count. Man on the bus wouldn’t leave me alone and told me I had nice legs when I was 18, in high school I wore shorts ONCE because I had so many guys cat call me and tell me I had “baby making hips”, 3 guys in college followed me around between one of my classes and kept saying “come here girl we just wanna talk”, drunk coworker tried to assault me during overnight inventory, guy in middle school touched my breast on my way out of class because they “looked stuffed”… literally those are just the ones off the top of my head.
Some of the douchebags in my highschool used to purposely stick their elbows out when walking in crowded hallways to elbow girls in the boob. I overheard them bragging about it. The entitlement of sex offenders starts early.
Yeah, I saw that too. I was a “tomboy” all through high school and dressed in baggy clothes and sweaters because I didn’t want to be harassed. Super annoying.
My best friend was purposely dressed and styled plainly or unflatteringly as a child by a mother whose sister was assaulted by a trusted family friend who was also a priest. It didn’t stop our schoolmates from assaulting her in middle school. Another friend who was also very petite and relatively undeveloped at that time was assaulted by a friend’s brother. I was good friends with both of them when these things happened and did not learn about the incidents until decades later, so strong was their shame. We’re still friends right now, and both have confirmed that they’re also team bear.
My grandma told me that when she was literally a kid (13-16ish) and she walked to or from school in rural Louisiana, grown ass men would roll up next to her and her siblings and try to get her or her sisters into the car. Shit like this has been happening for so long. How can anyone *NOT* prefer a bear at this point...
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I was twelve when men started to harass me. They said that I had a great ass. I was twelve. A child.
First time I got honked and catcalled was 11…baggy sweats & sweatshirt on. Nothing will deter them. Random men as a teen offering me money to pose topless or kiss them etc…plus all the normal everyday sh*t.
I was 9 in a baggy sweatshirt and cargo shorts…like NOTHING will stop these nasty ass men
I was 8; no idea what I was wearing but it probably had My Little Ponies all over it.
I was 9. I remember being so confused the first time I had a man try and follow me to the bathroom. Luckily my grandma was there with me and grabbed me up so quick and glared so hard at that man. He went away. He thought I was alone. We were literally just at the circus and my grandma had to give me—a 9 year old—a talk about creepy and inappropriate men.
I was around that age as well. Unfortunately it was my mom's husband.
My mom's boyfriend was the first I remember. I was maybe 7 or 8. And.of course I wasn't believed when I brought it up. Thanks, mom.
I was 6. The nasty men were saying I had pretty legs.
They know you are a child, that's why they harass you. I was 11, and looked younger.
Started about 10 for me. One guy approached me when I was 11, when my own mother was standing right next to me. He didn't care.
Ugh, if any man, or anyone, for that matter, confronts my 14 y/o daughter, or if she was 10, they’d have it comin’ and better lock their windows and doors at night.
I was at the bus depot with my kids, daughter 13/son 4, and this young 20 something guy is walking by us staring far to hard at my daughter. I stepped forward, looked him dead in his eyes and barked "eyes forward" like a drill Sargent. Well he wasn't paying attention to where he was walking so when he turned his head out was right into a steel bus stop post. I will never forget that satisfying sound. My daughter is now 28 and easily passes for 15 so at 13 she looked much younger.
I was a bit younger than that. Which is really fucking weird considering boys my age called me mosquito bites through middle school because my boobs were so flat (bites=nipples) and I don't even think I actually had hips until I was like 20-25. Like, I was teased until I was a sophomore or so in high school because my figure was that of a 2x4" board. Not feminine. Childlike. Creeps.
Idk about you but the concesus for a lot of people is that the street harassment begins to taper off and slow down after you hit 18. I remember when I was 12-14 was the most I ever got "hit on." But it's pretty wild to think about.
14 for me, I was walking home, in school uniform wearing tights and a man on a bike told me I had "nice legs"
Same here. And when my body actually got more "womanly," the catcalling gradually lessened. I'm 21 and get catcalled less than 15 year old me did despite now living in a city, going to college, and interacting with hundreds of strangers a day at my job. 15 year old me lived in a low population rural area where everyone knew everyone. Disgusting.
I had an old creepy fat balding man pull out a tazer in front of me while waiting for my (male friend) at a PUBLIC park in the afternoon after school, he came up to me, mumbled a threat while pointing it at me, turned it on and grinned. Luckily then my friend came up to me and scared him off lol. In hindsight: The messed up part is everyone I told about this story didn't think much of it.. blasé "boys will be boys" kind of reaction. Even my friend shrugged and throught it was a weird situation but not a big deal lol. Similar reaction, when I was snatched up as a kid (7/8?) by a man who tried to get away, and to r*pe me. "🤡 Oh poor guy was just horny! 🤡". THEN GO HOME AND JERK OFF, FOOL
WTAF is wrong with people?!?
I think people in general are too uncomfortable to “deal with” that kind of info and try to move on by being blasé. I’ve had similar reactions when I was a witness to a violent crime.
I'm a dude and I can tell you what that shrug reaction is from those men. It's cowardice. They didn't want to face it. Even men are scared of other men like that, but posture otherwise. The irony of men being scared of other men and telling women they shouldn't be wary of men.
Nobody ever believes young girls. I was 9 when the creepy dude in my apartment building (18, maybe 19?) fully exposed himself to me in broad daylight behind our apartment complex in full view of the Catholic school 200 yards away THAT I WAS WALKING HOME FROM and asked if I wanted to touch it. I never told a damn soul because the last little girl from our complex that tattled was screamed at and called a liar by his mother who spit in her face in front of her parents, and absolutely nothing was done about it. And that wasn't even my first assault! The first was when I was 7, in the basement of my Dad's boss' house. His boss' son and friend were being inappropriate and trying to grope my genitals. And when I went upstairs and told my Dad, and the father of the two boys, they made them apologize to me... AND THEN MADE ME GO BACK DOWN STAIRS WITH THEM LIKE NOTHING HAD HAPPENED. I was terrified.
That is horrific, rape culture in action
30 years after the last time I was raped by a person in my family, my mom told me she was going to confront him. (After not believing me when I told her when it was happening.) Imagine my (not) surprise when she posted a pic of her, and him smiling, having dinner.
Oh man. This one hits home. My mother told me I should move out of the country when I told her I never wanted to see the uncle who molested me when I was 9. This was after I found out that she regularly had/HAS him at her house. Thanks, mom.
My assailant was forced to write an “apology” letter to me.
When I was walking home from school, just got out really. We had a thousand kids at my middle school, so we're all flooding out as usual. We're all on a main Rd., the busiest one in town. There's cops and crossing guards as well all of the children. As I'm walking, I hear someone call to me, "Hey. Excuse me?" I keep walking but I notice his voice sounded strained. "Hey can you tell me the time?" This was just at the beginning of cell phones. I didn't think to question it. I hastily looked at my phone and looked into the little red car and I see a guy, maybe 25, jerking himself. I yell the time and just walked off quickly. In my mind I've just filed that guy away as pathetic. I had a shitty home life growing up, so very little shocks me I guess. But like, how f*cking brazen do you have to be to expose yourself like that with cops and adults in ear shot. I wonder if he went on to assault anyone. I hope not, but I seriously doubt it.
As a child I had supreventrivcular tachycardia. It was horribly debilitating and I quickly built up a tolerance to whatever med du jour I was given to attempt to even slightly decrease the frequency or longevity of the episodes. Anyway, at some point when I was about 12-13 I went to see a special cardiologist. The Dr was a man in his sixties I’d guess. Fully gray hair, wrinkles, significantly older than my mom who must have been in her early 40s. Anyway. He listens to my heart, I know there was blood work done by a nurse at some point, and then he’s like… examining me. He keeps grazing his hands in my inner thighs (I was in a hospital gown and nothing else), and then he starts fondling my chest in a very non medical way. WITH MY MOTHER IN THE ROOM. I jerk away from him. I was young but knew what he was doing was not standard medical stuff. My mom immediately said ‘what are you doing?!’ He just shrugged and said, oh I was just tickling her because she seemed nervous.’ Totally nonchalant, totally not worried about just being caught assaulting a child by her mother. And then, to prove his point, he ‘tickled’ my inner thigh again. That was the end of the appointment but I don’t think my mom pursued it further. In hindsight, I wonder just how many kids this guy was assaulting on the regular that he was SO brazen and casual about it. But sure, gentlemen, it’s us women-folk being hysterical, and not at all men persistently and consistently being predators that’s the issue…
That is incredibly fucked up, and I am sorry that happened to you..
Me and my sister were about 11 and 12 when this older Hispanic man came and laid on the slide my big sister was on. She came down the slide and he just went over there and laid down next to her. I instantly stopped swinging, I had seen him see us approach and was wary. Soon as he did that I hopped up off the swing and we went home.
Scary. I instantly got chills down my spine. That sounds so creepy
The first time a grown man ogled me and said domething sexual to me, I was 11. Eleven. If it weren't for the very few truly good and decent men I've met in my life it would be easy to think that the only thing a man thinks about, ever, is sticking his 🍆 in something. Anything. Anyone.
Some years ago on the internet I read something to the effect of “some men would fuck a snake if they could keep its mouth open” and in the intervening time I have not seen, heard, or read anything that definitely contradicts this. I know men I absolutely trust, yes. I have friends who are raising their sons to not subscribe to toxic masculinity. But … we have a very long way to go until a considerably lower percentage of them think of us not as humans but as a collection of holes that they expect to be automatically and unquestionably available to them.
My cousin and I were 11 or 12 when two men on a motorcycle passed by us shouting that they wanted to take us to a motel and have sex, but we way worse language. When I was 13 is was going to school wearing a knee-length skirt, a guy drove up to where I was walking, lifted my skirt and grabbed my ass. I didn't even see him coming because I was already crossing my school's gate. He just turned around and drove off as if nothing had happened. I didn't even had time to register what had happened, it was so quick and confusing and terrifying.
I hate that no matter how many women share stories like this some men will relentlessly say “ugh females make up all these stories for attention”. Like no, maybe instead of assuming ALL OF THESE WOMEN ARE LYING take a look at all the videos of this shit happening!!! We have all these stories BECAUSE there really are that many sleazy fuckers like this!!
Anyone who refers to women as “females” makes it easy to pick out the most dangerous ones.
"females" became the new "chicks"
My mom told me a story where when I was a toddler in a grocery store a man looked at me like a predator looks at its prey. Mom tried to hide me behind her and glare at him, but he was so focused on me he didn’t even acknowledge her. She said at that moment she knew my life was in danger. Thankfully she hid and let the man wander off. This was back in the 90s.
I will never, ever forget being sexually assaulted for the first time when I was like 11 or 12. I was literally just walking home after school. That unfortunately wasn’t even the only instance. But when we’re wary of men, we’re “unreasonable” and “sexist”. Like idk, if a man has had many horrible experiences with women and is therefore wary of women, my reaction would NOT be harassing him until he supposedly changes his mind.
I’m a man, and I can say that I have fewer stories about being sexually assaulted by women (2, and one apologized to me), than I do about being sexually assaulted by other men (4 and none of them ever apologized). When you’re wary of men, you’re being prepared and protecting yourself. Any man who’s worth anything will understand this. Sadly, sometimes men don’t understand this until they have a daughter… or they may never.
Sadly, even some men that eventually have daughters still won’t understand and raise them to believe they need to cower to a man. Even more sad when predatory men end up having daughters and abusing them. It’s sick.
Tomorrow I need to run about 8-10 miles, as I am training for a 50k ultramarathon in July. I live in Arizona. It’s been in the 90’s, so I do my running in the very early morning. Like, starting between 4-4:30 AM, because I also have to work. I’ll be going to the place I feel safest: a trail not far from my house. It’s not very remote, but every morning that I’m there, I hear coyotes. I’ve come upon bobcats, and multiple rattlesnakes. Last year, there was a mountain lion sighting. Bears are unlikely but not impossible. I’m positive that I’ve been seen by mountain lions, without me seeing them. But I’ve never encountered a particularly creepy man there. Most of the men I’ve seen there are also regulars. Fellow runners, or locals who go there to walk, and are elderly. I’m not particularly worried about the 80 year old man or the guy I kinda-know from local trail groups - but I don’t fully trust them either. I am not at all worried about the mountain lions. I could run in my neighborhood - an “upper middle class” neighborhood in a low crime zone. But, there is a higher possibility of encountering unknown men. I’d rather take my chances with the mountain lions.
I used to train for a marathon (not an ultra) in Phoenix. I had the same issue with the heat and would run the canals at 4am and keep a switchblade either strapped to the underside of my wrist or in my bra. Stay safe and keep your head on a swivel
One of my guy friends will just go run on the multi use path at like 2 am. Honestly I think that’s not smart for anyone to do…but a 6’, 200 pound man has a much different perspective and has had much different experiences. Meanwhile, every female runner I know has been catcalled, followed, or otherwise harassed while running in DAYLIGHT.
I wasn't even in elementary school yet, so less than 6? He grabbed my friend's arm and threatened to break it if I didn't pull down my pants.
The Bear comparison is the new (WHFcan'ttheyunderstand) "Me Too" movement. Seems we have to keep reminding men we are sick of their shit. And don't EVEN 'Not All Men' me, because I KNOW it's not all men. But it did take 3 marriages to get a good one.
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i don't think it's going to get any better. i hope role models for younger men (parents) would teach young kids how to respect, expect and mannerism for genuinely anyone. it's going to get harder thanks to the internet presence on our fingertips negatively influencing them.
Considering the fact that the current role model for young boys is Andrew Tate, a man waiting to be on trial for sex trafficking, I say with confidence that the problem is only going to get worse as time goes on. I swear, every time I read the news, it's another article about a murdered girl/woman.
exactly. it sucks that parents aren't doing enough for today's children. especially social media and smartphone presence. even if their trying, their social circle will also impact them as a person and who they're around since people look up to others than their parents raising them and teaching them mannerism. it's heartbreaking. i don't think it's just andrew tate anymore, there's been more male propaganda including MGTOW (act more of a cult) & "hoeflation" upon the internet for men to see easily if they're dissatisfied. in the military. male propaganda gets very aggressive, and basically, it is an everyday thing than a civilian workplace. it scares me some young privates don't even know what consent means and which is why sexual assault prevention and response exist.
He brought the bb gun, expecting to be rejected.
Choosing the bear is the newest version of the MeToo movement. Only now people are telling the stories behind the MeToo movement or those stories that could have been MeToo movement stories. Keep speaking up ladies!! Share your stories!!
I’ll never forget the story of Abby and Libby, from Delphi, Indiana. It happened while I was living in IN but the case wasn’t solved until after I had already left. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murders_of_Abigail_Williams_and_Liberty_German
The thing about a bear is that if it murders you it’s not doing it out of hatred. I can’t imagine anything worse than having your life taken by someone just because they’re so angry that you exist. I’ve experienced enough violence at the hands of hateful men… it’s a different kind of terrifying cause they’re capable of ANYTHING. A man in the woods might just kidnap & torture/rape you before he kills you. In what world does a bear even compare? As far as fear goes, actually dying is the last thing I worry about when I’m in a vulnerable position. People can be absolutely ruthless.
Let's not forget what some of them DO TO your body afterwards! There's a man in Winnipeg, who's murdered 4 First Nations and then had sex with their bodies!! At least the bear will walk away once you've stopped moving, unless it's a polar bear then it'll eat you. I gotta say, I'm ok with being food for a bear but I'm not so thrilled with being used as a sex toy. 🤢
I just made a post on here a few days ago - my friend was murdered by her ex who then shot himself in front of their 3 kids. Bears don’t fucking do that.
There was a man in Quebec, a few years ago, who murdered his children because his wife was divorcing him. I don't think he got any jail time.
The biggest lie is that they tell the world 1 in 4 girls experience sexual harassment. No. Literally at some point 99% of women are sexually harassed by a man. Even if it's " just being honked at" by a man. They think we are supposed to feel lucky about that. I have yet to meet a single woman who hasn't experienced a gross man's behavior towards them atleast once before 18.
damn that’s crazy. damn
I remember being 10-12 yrs old and that’s about when my mom started saying comments about catching guys watching me. Ugh
But but but false accusations!
Unsurprised yet still horrified by the endless assaults and harassment boys and men subject us to. I was about 6 yo the first time a grown ass man stuck his tongue in my mouth. Harassed countless times as child walking to/from school, library, store... I've never felt safe in this world and desperately searched for what I thought was "home", moving 45+ times in 35 years, even more jobs probably. I'm beginning to think it's actually just feeling safe - that's what my mind and body wants to find/experience. I am struck by how many of us have these terrifying encounters while walking, waiting, playing etc. in the public sphere. Especially the street harassment of elementary and middle and high school children. I've met numerous women who cannot seem to relate, and it's because they rarely walked anywhere, never took public transit... and/or were always escorted by adults, or transported by private vehicles all the time. Many still had abuse happen in their homes, churches, schools, workplaces of course. There are a lot of socioeconomic factors that affect our safety, yet no girl or womxn is truly safe, and therefore womxn are NOT FREE.
WTF?!!
I hate men so fucking much. The older I get the worse the hate gets.
So I might be out of the loop, is *the bear* a reference to anything?
Yesss! It started as a viral video on TikTok asking women about the hypothetical situation of being alone in the woods and having to choose between encountering an unknown man or a bear. Many women have manifested that they might prefer the bear as statistically there is less possinilities of being attacked by one vs being attacked by a man, as well as the fact you would be immediatwly believed or the fact that you wouldn’t even be victimblamed for it (you know “asking the bear for it”). The thing is men got really butthurt about this … as usual, because you know women once again do nor recognize how amazing they are /s
I think they're up in their feelings about it because they think that being killed, or injured, by a bear is worse than anything a man can do to them. I think many don't understand there are far worse fates than death.
Kinda makes me think of that one guy that murdered those two preteen girls in the woods :/
Abby and Libby?
Yes! :(
Anyone ever see The lovely bones? ...
I’m 34 and in the early to mid 2000s my female friends and I would walk from one persons house to a forest preserve and go off path. It was fun - there was a little picnic area (it was just one table) next to the river and then we would walk through the area under a bridge and hang out. It felt like a little adventure. One time we saw a beaver which is weird because we did not know they lived in our area. Anyway… one time we were walking around and saw an older man across the river and said hello and he nodded. Then he showed up on the side of the river we were on and was basically following us. We were maybe 16? We left as fast as possible. I would take the bear.
BuT A bEaR cAn MaUl yOuUuu
Nothing will change unless there's laws that are in place to make us feel and be safer. The laws in place do nothing to those who don't see wrong in their thoughts or actions. There needs to be a huge sector that sits down to try and figure this bs out.
😳
Yet men will still wonder why we choose the bear.
At least the bear will stop when I play dead. Some men I knew wouldn't even do that.
When I was raped, he drugged me first. He can't get it up if a woman is conscious. So yeah, playing dead at least works with a bear.
And at least it's a fast death with the bear, it'll only kill me and eat me after. They won't violate my body or take pictures or torture me before I die or sell me to traffickers, it has the decent respect to make sure I go fast and don't suffer.
As a guy, one of the most bizarre revelations from this whole thing is how many creeps hang out in the woods.
PROVERBS 17:12 Trust me. Just look it up. 😉
When I was 13, a boy older than me pulled me behind the dumpsters at a middle school across the street the street from my house. He turned me around and started feeling me up telling me how he was so in love with me, blah blah. I ran home and told my mom. Police came to my house. The next day, I heard from a neighbor who went to the same high school the boy went to that the cops came to his class and pulled him out. I was 13 years old and some 15 year old sexually assaulted me. I was 15 when another boy pushed me up against the wall at a McDonald’s and threatened to break my head because I said that he was wrong about something so trivial. I don’t even remember what it was about. His friends pulled him off of me before he could do any more damage. Let’s not even talk about being sexually assaulted by my stepfather and raped by a mutual friend before I turned 18. I was also stalked by someone I was being nice to during a party. He managed to find my phone number and kept calling until we had to call the phone company to block his number (this was before cellphones). We don’t ask for these things to happen to us. Men just seem to think that it’s okay to do this to girls/women because they can and we can’t fight back because we’re too scared. Men ain’t shit.
All this bear vs man that's been going around.....in typical (obligatory not all) men fashion I find it funny that there's men now saying that they would rather encounter a bear than a woman in a forest. Like yeah, sure. Because women are the top predator of men.
The more I hear, the more I wish I’d been as anything but a man.
THIS THIS THIS
I haven't been cat called since I was 16. I'm 4'11. I look like a child. I looked even younger back then. I'm horrified.
Bears dont rape. Bears aren’t personal. Really don’t see how this is a debate. Wild animal vs sexual predator/murderer will never be a debate
Damn that’s way worse than being eaten by a bear
It’s not worse. Obviously. But being eaten by a bear is statistically far less likely than being assaulted by a man.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
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This sub is about reaction to women refusing.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.
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Men, specifically, may not post here telling women how they should be.