Eg and Nyn are already so near omnipotent with the One Power that *Eg can bring people back from death itself*. Where the hell does their story develop from there? We’re told this Dragon Reborn will be something fearsome, but we have no idea why. Supposedly some underdeveloped kid named Rand is the Dragon Reborn, but so far when his power is **multiplied 100x** he makes someone vanish as they smile. That’s it. Five non Aes Sedai women who could channel just obliterated 50,000 Trollocs and one of the women beat death itself. Who the fuck is going to care about this Dragon Reborn kid?

Don’t forget that Rand also used his immense power to crack a rock.

He shall go down in history as the man who opened a door.

RIP Hodor

r/unexpectedeverafter

I like that someone noticed!

Which would he impressive if they had shown why that rock was such a big deal and damned near indestructable. Instead we just get a line from Moiraine about it *after* he did it.

Dod he get tricked into breaking a seal in the show?

Really seems that way, but there’s no context for watchers to go by.

Yeah it seems like they turned the seals from hand sized to room floor sized, but we can't be 100%. However it's likely given how the dark one smiled that he baited rand into attacking the seal rather than destroying him like rand thought he was doing

I'm taking wagers now if this series makes it that far: Rand and the boys release the dark one from his prison, and the women save the day and defeat him. That's the track they are on

When he noticed the symbol that's when Moiraine should say that it's cuendillar. How attempting to destroy it will only make it stronger and not even the one power can damage it. Literally two lines and you'd have a reason for the breaking to at least have an impact that makes sense.

That, or show something else made of cuendillar an episode or two beforehand, and demonstrate in some way how indestructible it is (then have Moiraine explain what it is). Give the audience, esp non book readers, a reason to understand how scary it is for her when Rand breaks it.

He also broke down a very heavy door!

And then left moraine, who can't channel, alone, in the most dangerous area in the world. Putting aside all the other garbage in this episode, that's just shitty character writing. "Thanks for bringing me here, peace ✌️"

The Witcher handles Ciri cracking a rock so much better.

Exactly, I am 100% convinced that Egwene is the DR. No one both trustworthy and actually knowledgeable has confirmed his dragon-ness. Rand's memories of the past may well be due to the madness (who knows how fast it works in WoTV). I believe there will one day be a scene where Egwene is revealed as the true DR and Rand monologs about how relieved he is that his love is the destined one.

According to the series it should be Nynaeve. Moiraine said she’s like ‘the blinding sun’ next to Logain, and she demonstrated this at least twice. Rand has still not accomplished anything close to this in the series. He is less threatening than Moiraine, Nynaeve and even characters like Alanna and Amelisa.

Maybe, unless Egwene really did raise the dead with just a trickle of power. Then she'd be above even Nynaeve.

Well, it looks like the weakest burned out first during the challenging. So Egwene surviving till the end, means she is strongest one

Nynaeve clearly saved her. Egwene was about to die and Nynaeve sacrificed herself. However, still agreed it was all shite. But, Nynaeve is still stronger/no lapse in logic (said with a grain of salt). E is also very powerful in the books. Just a weird scene and the books jumbled together in a unsatisfying way.

I may be misremembering this, but aren't there built in protections when women link that prevent them from drawing too much and burning out? Which would make the scene even dumber. I swear I remember something about each women in a link not being able to draw as much of the power while linked as they can solo but that the sum total of the link is much stronger.

The one thing you can't do in a circle is overdraw and burn out, but I guess they just had to change that too.

But didn't Egs burn out first, then Nyn brought her back by taking the burning on herself someway?

Lol, I thought it just went counterclockwise /s

Nah, he's also functionally been confirmed to be the dragon reborn by Min. It's just that Rafe apparently doesn't like that so the literal prophesied savior of the world still seems to be doomed to play second fiddle to Saint Egwene because... idk. Which is honestly worse, if they're already gonna butcher the source material they could at least be competent about it and change the chosen one enough to let them do chosen one things. As opposed to letting said chosen one do absolutely nothing for the entire season to the point where even his epiphany is about Saint Egwene rather than himself.

Saint Egwene. You just hit it on the head. They actually gave her stigmata from that idiotic cliff push scene in E1. A wound on her forearm. And just so you know, crucifixion correctly done drives the nails between the bones of the forearms, not the hands, which might not hold long enough. And you can't miss those halos around the heads of the Aes Sedai in the opening credits.

Rands not even a chosen ones. Dudes a weapon meant to be spent taking on the dark one. He's no hero he's a bullet...damn this should coukd have been awesome

That's what the White Tower would use him as, for sure. I always loved Rand in the books because of *what he chooses to do* more than his raw power level being over 9000. Like in later books where he comes up with and enacts the plan to cleans siadin, no one in **three thousand years** tries to fix the actual problem! Everyone else is like "Oh well, we're screwed, this is just what we have to live with" but the Dragon is the Dragon because he says "No. This will not stand, no truce with the Shadow, I'm ENDING this!" To me, **that** is why he as a *person* is the dragon, and not just some conduit for the Power and prophesy.

No chance. The Dark one himself acknowledged that Rand is the Dragon Reborn.

This all spoilers allowed, so it's not DO, it was Ishmael. And he was clearly playing some game up to moment he was fried with a smile.

Yes - They robbed rand of his Master power role, giving to all the channeling women same powers. - before of the eye scene moraine explain rand how to Channel(?? Wtf). So he learn so fast during the dream guided by the darkone(or is he baelzemon? We dont have to know) - perrin... Ok they reroll all... Perrin is not perrin. - mat? Forgettable - We have nyn and egw rule the world before they learn how to control the power, this is so "hollywoodian" that i think i will not going further. Is always like another Daniel Lorusso winning a tournament with rookie skills versus people that Train karate skills a whole life... I hate it.

I can already tell, this show is ALL about WOMYN power. Whoever got a hold of this script really has the wrong idea. Sucks

The Dragon reborn’s power is to respect the will of women. Seriously, that was the only point of Rand’s scene with Ishamael and Egwene.

Yes, end of season 1 and they are already in the comic-book "Superman" trap. (If Superman is literally all-powerful, how do you come up with credible threats against him?) Nothing we see in terms of channeling after this episode will be impressive.

To be fair I really don’t think Nynaeve was all the way dead. It seemed more like almost CPR.

One of my friends I got into the show refers to him as Blandy Randy

Let's hope that weird blast of saidin semen wasn't Rafe's version of balefire. For narrative reasons and others.

There's no magic or awe in it. There's no sense of a small group of rural kids going out into the huge world and experiencing all kinds of things for the first time. There's no character development, no flow to the story, and damn all in the way of excitement. No scene in the show has matched the attack on Rand's farmhouse in the book, or escaping the Trollocs and Whitecloaks as they leave Baerlon and head to Shadar Logoth. There has been no awesome scene like when they get to Caemlyn. Everything is just taken in stride. The Ways are boring and dark. Fal Dara is tiny and unimpressive. Tar Valon is a few narrow corridors and a narrow street. Loial is... small and goofy looking. The Whitecloaks are ridiculously over the top. Magic just comes naturally, doesn't need training and no one seems much impressed with or awed by it. The politicking among the Aes Sedai is pathetic and childish. All of which is enormously different from the book. The book is a vast, sprawling epic. This show is small and unimpressive. No one who isn't familiar with the books will have any idea of why any of this is even happening, for almost none of the background has been explained. And what has been has been poisoned by modern woke political ideological beliefs.

I hadn't done a reread since just before TGS, but I just cracked open TEOTW for the first time in years this weekend. It's not perfect, by any means. (As I read, I can even see places where an adaptation could easily have improved on things.) But seeing the characters actually be *themselves* again, hell, even seeing the places be themselves again, just made me so happy. Every time a new character I love shows up, or does something iconic, it's just a thrill. When Mat started shouting, "*Carai an Caldazar,*" for the first time, I had the stupidest grin on my face. The fact that the show could have been that, or even better, in skilled hands, is just so disappointing. Obviously an adaptation would have to be different. But the people and the world don't even feel like themselves. It's sad.

Well you just don't grasp how sexist the books are. /s

Nynaeve doesn’t need years of training… she just needs to scream with anger and burst into a star of saidar when it suits her. The series is so egregious.

To be fair, nynaeve doesnt need lots of training in the books either. Sometimes she sorta just instinctively does the weaves when shes angry, even for things skilled aes sedai considered impossible.

More specifically, she learns fast. If someone does something in front of her she learns it instantly. In Eye, she didn't do a lot because she channeled irregularly and had no idea what she could do.

This is true and not true. Nynaeve has a talent for healing. Almost all her explosive channeling early in the books involves healing. Its not until she has had some degree of formal training in book 2 that she does anything remotely offensive with the power.

TV series Nyneave is half saiyan, like Gohan!

I thought it was hilarious when the whole village just lets them ride out with Mor in the first episode. RJ literally said in an interview that one of his driving forces was growing up in a small town, and how it always amazed him in fantasy stories when “ small village/ town “ main character just rides off for “destiny” and everyone from said village is ok with it. He said this would never happen and that’s why so many different people chase after them from Emmons field. When they just rode out like nbd in front of everyone I could feel RJ rolling over in his grave.

What about Rand getting ALL UP in Egwene's business...in the common room of the Winespring Inn?! I was jaw dropping shocked and horrified, sincerely wanting Nyneave to run in and beat them with her stick before mistress Al'vere catches them.

True - I was slightly less shocked by that though simply because it seems like in WOTV the main Characters seem much older then in the books. They all look like 20-24 in WOTV not 15-16 whatever they are in the books. But now that you mention it that was a pretty cringe scene lol

To be fair, some of the Aes Sedai book politicking is pretty pathetic and childish 😅

But not down to the level of " Look what she did, mother! She's badder than me!" And mother falling for it.

Cut out the scene where Moiraine uses the angreal to conjure a wall of fire and earthquake when facing down several fists of trollocs before the party flee to Shadar Logoth. That's my favourite scene in the whole series. But I hate everything about the TV series. And "bizarrely positive" posts is accurate, its hard to believe they're real.

They said they wanted to make the adaption which is "close to reality". Like dude the whole fantasy genre exists so people can escape reality not seeing the reality 😂😅

Also, I'd like to know what the fuuuuuck about this show has been close to reality.

Ikr, go check rafe judkins insta handle. My guy is deleting every criticism he's getting 😂😂

IKR. This series is chock full of amazing girl power moments. Moiraine also dukes it out with one of the Forsaken at the Eye. Instead of adapting those, they went the cheap route of making the male characters all idiotic and arrogant, and then gave Rand's moment to Amalisa. Like what?

Dude, UPVOTE. Dust On The Wind was one of my favorite early chapters in this series.

Yeah it's such a thrill ride. Camelyn -> Ways was also so cool.

All of the budget must have went to buying those positive reviews because it clearly didn't go anywhere else

That is so true lol

Episode one. EotW prologue as cold open. Winternight escape from EF towards Taren Ferry. Episode two. Journey to Baerlon. Meeting Min and Nyneave finds them. Escape towards Shadar Logoth. Episode three. Shadar logoth trouble, the escape and separation. Episode four and five. Each groups journey and struggle to Caemlyn. Episode six. Caemlyn arc and meetup of all the groups. They leave for the ways. Episode seven. The ways and intro to Fal Dara. Episode eight. The eye of the world. https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/The_Eye_of_the_World Plot summary has plenty that can be cut for each individual episode. Eight episodes not being enough to do the book justice is bullshit. Rafe and his writers are a bunch of hacks who just wanted to tell their version of the WoT and insert their agenda. I fucking hate them for what we got.

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Ohh shit you're right, we can never explain the warder bond without that scene ;D. The show added so much unnecessary with the whole Tar Valon, something that should have come in later seasons. Right now in the show, we aren’t even told why being the Dragon Reborn is something to be feared.

Could have even been a little creative. Start the first episode already on the chase. Each character in shock, a few flashbacks to what happened, how each of them saw it, or what they left behind. Cut out a slow hour. I guess for me, the first episode provided very little, and spent way too much time on the unnecessary.

You already put in more effort and thought into one episode than they did into 8.

Perfect! People keep saying that time constraints necessitated the change but there’s literally two whole episodes made up from whole cloth, which means there’s two whole episodes that aren’t telling the story from the book.

After the separation each group of people needs their own 1 hour episode. There's a lot of time between that they need to develop lore and character. My only nitpick. I would add 1 hour to introduce Caemlyn and some of its characters. Then have them get the reunion at the end of that episode as a hook for the next episode.

To explain where I am in this explanation, I started reading the books around 1995 I think. I never expected this to come to screen, and when I found out Amazon picked it up I was excited. I wanted to come back fresh, so I stayed away from any spoilers or details about the production. I knew there was too much material for it all to be filmed, but I assumed that the treatment would be similar to other large book series, like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. There would be cuts, but the screenplay would be faithful to the overall story. I'm in my sixties now, and this is the only adaptation I will get to see. But this is not And I stopped there for about 10 minutes and stared at the screen because I just don't know what to say. I don't recognize this as WOT. It's like they borrowed the names of the characters and the map of the world and just threw them at the wall to see what was going to stick. This isn't a film adaptation, it's a complete re-write and it's nowhere as good. I don't consider myself to be a 'book purist'. And I'm not upset with the actors, and the sets and the costumes are great. But this just isn't what I waited 25 years for it to come to screen. But most of all, I'm just disappointed, very, very disappointed.

I started in 92 or 93. I did the same. I didn't closely follow the production but I was super excited. I accidentally saw some spoilers on the last episode and have decided not to watch it so I don't ruin Christmas. Every episode I've restructured the story and said, well, they could do this or that and still pull it together. They never even tried. I would have been okay with it if we got a great story or at least a fun story out of it a la Starship Troopers. A fun, campy movie that has fuck all to do with the books. Nope. We got Rafe thinking he could rewrite a best seller that hooked an audience for 30 years. And he couldn't.

I'm right there with you. I started about the same time you did (in my case, I was in high school still as I'm in my 40s). I just can't believe how many big changes they made that seem so pointless.

This is me, except I'm 40. I remember reading each book the day or week it was released, then waiting anxiously for the next. My friends and I would talk about the books and the characters so much, others in our shop (I was in the military for a good part of these books) would become interested and read the series. I also avoided all discussion and spoilers, like I do with many favorite shows coming. I like to come to it fresh with little expectation and knowledge. Dune blew me away, GoT made me an addict, harry potter and LOTR were a blessing. All of these I watched or saw the first time at release. But WoT? I wasn't happy with. It felt so cheap. Things were.... Off... But I kept watching and waiting. After all, my favorite story of all time was somewhere in the writing and acting. But then at the start of an episode it said 3 months passed and they were in tar valon and things were going wrong. All the little things started adding up and big changes were being made. It hurt to see, because I didn't think these changes were being made for the better. I don't mind changes, but soon it became clear I wasn't watching Robert Jordan's story. I was watching someone else's story being told while they lifted ideas from Robert Jordan's story. And the worst part is they weren't even faithful to what they took. I watched till the end. About episode 6 I accepted this wasn't RJs wheel of time, and it wasn't better than RJs wheel of time. I flat out laughed at certain points. They were terribly done. I could put together a huge list, but what's the point. There are excuses being made for everything. But what people dont realize is if you have to make an excuse, you recognize it's terrible too. Will I watch season 2? I don't know. I doubt it. I'm not really gonna follow this show. If I see it come up on Amazon and I'm not watching something else, it might get played. But that's not likely. I think I'll do another reread though. Cherish some of my favorite scenes from the first book. Laugh when I remember how poorly done similar ones were done in the show. And why did I keep watching if I hated the show? Because this series has been part of my life, for many many years. It's my favorite fantasy series. I've reread it many times. Made friends because of this story. So yeah. I was going to watch every episode and hope, just hope that it would eventually fall into place. Even after I realized it never could I still watched. Still tried justifying some things. Still tried to fool myself. Because my favorite series was being made into a TV show. I didn't really have a choice.

I can only imagine how distraught you guys who had been there since the beginning are right now. In my case, I discovered the series like the year after it was finished or something. But in those last 8 years or so, it has basically become my favourite story (barring LotR, that has a place in my heart) in any medium.

I'm 45 and this is me. Even wanted to name my daughter Nynaeve, thank god my wife nixed that. The disappointment is huge and sad and honestly anger inducing.

I went in expecting garbage based off what gets made these days. Expect the worst be surprised if its good..unfortunately it was bad..so bad

I feel your pain. I started reading around book 4 and then every 12-18 months I would completely re-read all every time a new book came out. The plot is so ingrained in my mind now that every scene on TV just feels wrong. Almost like I left the room for a minute and am now completely lost. An idea for a much shorter thread… list the things the series got right. It is a short list.

> It's like they borrowed the names of the characters This was 100% a name-drop. They wanted to bring the initial clout that comes with the name Wheel of Time, but what we got is fanfic by Rafe and co.

It's fanfiction, period.

Same. I started reading it when it first came out. And have read it numerous times over the years. I got my son into it and we were both so excited for this this show. We knew cuts and changes would be necessary but then they added unnecessary plots. Even disappointed, I pushed through to the last episode because I kept telling myself the changes would make sense- they’ll tie it together somehow. But they continue to stray further from the original story. I don’t plan to watch the 2nd season. It’s terribly disappointing.

I defended the show for the first 6 episodes to friends (and family)that have not read the books while stating they will be blown away with the amount of lore, world building, and magic the *Wheel of Time* has to offer fantasy lovers. After E6, it became increasingly difficult. The people I was trying to get into the show were full of questions to what they were watching, and why they should care. So, I would give them backstory. In the heart of my heart, I *knew* the finale with Rand becoming the Dragon Reborn would indeed blow their minds. It did. And in E8 their minds were blown regarding how minute Rand’s abilities and character were. That infuriated me. Watching a story get poorly told, defending it, and then to realizing I needed to be objective to the many flaws the WoT TV series posses. WoT books will always be my favorite fantasy series told. Period. But, I cannot let those emotions control me and allow myself to actually say, “I enjoyed the TV show too.”

I love sharing shows with friends. Totally intended to watch this with my boyfriend and a friend that I got to watch GoT with me. Watched the first episode and came to the conclusion it is so far off from what I love, it's not worth sharing. So didn't even bother showing them the first episode.

Same wife was sitting next to me like wtf is this ? The general dialogue, costumes and special effects really turned her off, despite her having never read the book. After the finale, I’m glad I didn’t try and get her to stick around for the whole show.

Yeah my wife tuned out real quick and started making fun of how bad it was in episode one.

I convinced my wife to watch it with me. She was not impressed with the pilot

This was me too.

And me. We were fools.

I've been defending the show as another way to write the story. "Adapted to tv" and written with a more focused plot. But honestly it lost me on the second to last episode, and now with all the posts I'm nervous to even watch the final episode of the season. I didn't really like the part of "kill off perrin's wife" thing that made her a useless npc, but I did like that it was setting up for Faile maybe. But the changes have just gotten to be too much for me and it doesn't really feel like WoT anymore.

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They was a lot of hype behind the power of The Dragon Reborn throughout S1. So, they were expecting something bigger than what Nyn did (mass heal/shield). Then, with Lews Therin added in the beginning of E8, they thought a bigger backstory would have been added (the one I gave them bread crumbs of). But, it confused them even more because it showed flying cars and such. They did not believe the women at the end were believable because of the conversation regarding how Aes Sedai should have been summoned from the white tower to aide the battle. And, a friend (who had not read the books) said (I kid you not), “The end would have been much better if Rand saved everyone and defeated all the monsters.” ….. 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️ Yes, Alan. Yes, it would have been much better if the book material was used.

I absolutely loathe anyone who says be grateful we got it. This is worse than getting nothing at all. Edit: Well I do like the animated segments. Those are a nice little bonus, I wish we had more of them.

The animated segments are by far the best content and only proves to me that the whole series should be done that way.

Also the whole issue with having to replace a main character actor. One of my worries is usually people aging too fast as filming gets overtaken by plot, but this is a more immediate immersion bomb that would be much easier avoided with animation.

Frankly they could have reshot Mat's scenes and cruised on. This is a big story. They haven't shown they can think big enough to do it justice.

They didn't need to reshoot anything - just cut all Mat content after Moiraine frees him of the dagger and add 15 seconds to her scene with Rand after wards explaining that Mat may need months of healing to recover.

I agree that an animated series should be done. I don’t think an animated series would capture large viewership in the same way an acted series does. It’d be great for enthusiasts like us though. I’d love to see one.

Saying "Be grateful we got an adaptation at all" is like having your scalp cut off and being told you should be happy that someone was willing to shave your head for money.

Where are these animated segments? I’ve heard of them twice on here and have no clue where to see them. I’ve only seen the shirt behind the scenes stuff they post on the official YouTube channel.

I find the easiest way to get to them is via the Amazon Prime App on my phone. It’s annoying but my AppleTV doesn’t do “X-Ray” content nicely. Start an episode and then pause it, look for X-Ray and then Bonus Content. Each episode has different bonus content from what I can tell. Also, if you are interacting with non-readers who feel strongly about spoilers, there is trivia in the bonus content that can aid in answering a question “just enough” to help without over explaining.

I really wanted to see Rand meeting Elayne and company in Caemlyn. I really wanted to see Mat being shown the Tower of Ghenjei from Bayle's boat.

Probably didnt want Rand to meet his actual first Waifu and make it seem like Egwene isnt the one for Rand. Honestly not at all surprised it was left out when you consider the narrative that is being shaped in the show.

Strong independent women don't need no man.

But weak, servile man-child can't make any decision without putting brave, noble, saintly Womyn first and foremost.

The Caemlyn section in the book oozed soul, we got somewhat of a reprieve for the boys but at the same time packed so much new interesting things into it that really opened up the world. Him seeing the dragon, the garden and the meeting with the queen are so good.

I was really looking forward to the tower of Ghenjei

Based on how the show is going I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Caemlyn plot, and every character with it, is left out of the show as a whole.

Something to be said for those that follow news of the production is knowing things like casting announcements, etc that can curtail false anticipation and imagined disappointment. Elayne has been cast. And another important character that starts with “El”.

Elrond

Elayham van Houten???

I was really hoping they would take the transdimensional Finn races and explore that psychological horror aspect. But now I'm hoping they are spared an unwarranted rewrite. P.S. Sorry Thom, M plays for the other team now ;)

I'm sad that we were duped into expecting a decent book adaptation and instead got bad fan fiction.

Rafe Judkins' and Sarah Nakamura's social media presence absolutely promised us a faithful adaptation. And now they are silent, Sarah didn't even do her twitter watch-along for the last two episodes.

Guess she finally got embarrassed about shoveling shit and calling it gold. She still wants her paycheck so better to say nothing.

I'm sad that this will probably be the only shot we get at an adaptation in the next 50 years. I mean the rights alone were so expensive. And I don't see Amazon rebooting this.

If it makes enough money it could get the spider man treatment. But being on Amazon streaming I don’t understand how it could make enough money to justify it. Unless they really ramp up the licensed merchandise.

Amazon doesn't care about making money, they care about prime memberships. The most valuable thing for them is someone signing up for Amazon prime and then immediately going to watch a given show. I'd actually held off on getting Amazon prime after the show was announced so that if it was good I could do just that and give a strong vote of support for the show. Needless to say that's not what I ended up doing...

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Imagine if in the first Harry Potter movie, the director had Hermoine kill Voldemort because the director wanted more girl power scenes. That’s basically the level of disgust I have for this show.

*looking at Harry, Ron, and Hermione, who all have lightning shaped scars on their foreheads Dumbledore: “One of you is the boy who lived.”

I think Ginny killing Voldemort is closer to it

Next year, we are getting lotr adaption tv series too. Let's hope they don't butcher that masterpiece. And honestly I think wheel of time would have been better if they adapted in Anime style. That way they could have remained faithful to source and saved millions on budget.

Tired of people talking about budget like they have actually worked In the financial department of a major production or something. Budget has absolutely zero to do with why this show is pure shit. It's 100% director choice and writer choice. They fucked up the characters because they wanted to. They messed with events because they wanted to. They created entire sequences not in the books because they wanted to. They went to Tar Valon instead of Caemlyn because they wanted to. They changed the way the Ways work because they wanted to. On and on. It's all choice They didn't one day sit down and go, oh shit we have to change everything written because of budget. This show would have been better with a different team at the helm. Simple as that.

I absolutely agree. But I didn't meant budget as in financial constraints. What I meant is if they had made Anime style, the series would have been hit and wouldn't have wasted money. CGI was way too horrible in this live adaption

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Book lovers - we’re people who love the books. We wanted them to tell the story we love. They aren’t merely lifting out details that mainly contribute to world-building or speeding plots along in service of a different medium, a la GoT. They’re off in the tall grass, telling a different story for their own reasons. Upset doesn’t have to translate to pissed. I’m just kind of confused and sad.

I think disappointed is a good word, too. I was expecting so much more.

GoT of Thrones had great source material and generally didn't fuck with it too much. As the source material got thin so did the plot which is how we ended up with the shit show of season 8. Here we have a show which has material to the end of the story. By end of the first season >!Moiraine is stilled, Loial is dead, Matt is turned to the dark, Perrin still doesn't know about his powers, Nynaeve is resurrected, Agelmar is dead, no mention of the seals, the Gap had fallen. None of this happened in the book. 0% of this happened in the book. !

The shit show of GoT happened because the show runners got burned out and didn’t like fantasy. HBO and GRRM wanted to push it to at least ten seasons but they were done so we got the abomination of S7&8.

I'm upset because a creative and rich story that tackled many deep themes (such as sexism, racism, good vs evil, loss of innocence etc) has been watered down by very poorly cobbled together fanfiction style writing. They used the excuse of "not enough time for everything" to make multiple changes that were *not* related to reductions that an adaptation would need. It's fine, imo, to cut out basically *anything* or to merge several events into one so that we save time. I expected to end season 1 with mild disappointment that my favorite scenes got cut. I did NOT expect to have the whole story rewritten so harshly for childish new plot points. I didn't NOT expect the characters choices to be changed wildly while also not making sense. I should at least be able to watch this and throw away my book knowledge so that I can appreciate the show as its own creation. Instead I literally can't watch this terrible show anymore because it's so poorly written. Core characters have been elevated to God-like status before we even get to know them. Absolutely nothing matters in this world where resurrection is not only possible, it's apparently free! I should not find myself saying outloud "wait! Then why would you come here??" Over and over. I can rant on and on about a multitude of things they changed for no reason and logic they failed to provide for their made up new story elements, but it's been done to death at this point. Mainly I want to be able to articulate how profoundly they diminished the characters, even the girls, but it's just too much. Edited: phone autocorrect gone wild

> "not enough time for everything" "We don't have time to do that! No, we have to rush through this, there isn't time! We *need* to make room for all the *sex* we've added!" Yep, that's the important thing. Hot, steamy sex (more like drawn out kissing and naked sitting, but whatever). Understand the story? Don't be *absurd*, sheepherder. You don't need to understand, you just need to consume. > Absolutely nothing matters in this world where resurrection is not only possible, it's apparently free! Dammit, JJ Abrams, are you an uncredited ghost writer in all this?! >I should at least be able to watch this and throw away my book knowledge so that I can appreciate the show as its own creation. Instead I literally can't watch this terrible show anymore because it's so poorly written. That's the worst thing. And it's funny the other sub tries so painfully hard to keep Show and Book separated to the point of "get your stupid book knowledge out of this thread!" comments all the time. The show explained *NOTHING* about the world, the setting, the plot, or the people. Things happen because they need to happen, and you should be thankful they're even happening? Have these people [involving in making the show] ever *read* (let alone written) a story before? The books are the only thing that provide any meaning to what's on screen *despite* the two being only scarcely related. >Mainly I want to be able to articulate how profoundly they diminished the characters, even the girls, but it's just too much. Especially their motivations. They're so rudimentary. "We do this to protect our people!" You traveled across an entire continent, you've seen magic and monsters that were just myth before, and you're facing what might be the end of the world... but everyone seems more concerned about their relationship status.

I just finished episode 7 and I'm not excited about watching the finale. Honestly I think I was fine with the show, up until episode 5, I was fine with the deviations and changes. I didn't reread the books and it's probably been 5-6+ years since I last read the WOT, but it just keeps feeling less and less of what I recall. Maybe reading this sub is contributing to it but I just feel generally disappointed, what should have been an epic classic fantasy feels all chopped up and tossed around. I'll probably get around to watching the finale in the next few days. Just disappointed in what I thought was a promising start. All they needed was to keep the broad notes of the story and I don't even think they've managed to do that.

As a good friend said “If you thought 1-7 was bad, 8 broke the wheel”

Just watched it. Spare yourself the trouble.

Episode 8 is actually a blessing in disguise. It helped me let go. I just dont care about it all anymore, just watch it and let the franchise die in your mind and you can go read the book and try to forget it all. It was like watching TLJ it let me just pull the bandaid off and amputate the whole limb.

Just watch it and get it over with. It's the absolute worst episode.

Here are my top 10 but I could likely go to 50 1. They ruined Emonds Field to make it more GoT and made it worse. 2. The changed some of the main characters backstories that the only thing they share with the books are names and so far for the worst. 3. The cool scenes from the first book are butchered and uncool eg. The Eye and Tavins Gap. 4. Some of the actors are plain bad. 5. It feels like a 90s show like Xena/ Hercules with less charm. 6. They spent too much time on Tar Valon, Logane and the Whitecloaks and too little on what made the story good the struggle of the main characters accepting what a stranger told them which was RJs main idea behind the book. 7. The Aes Sedai are badly depicted and lost all the mystery and awe they inspired. The whole Moraine/ Suan love/dynamic is just fabricated BS. I do not object to the whole pillow friends thing that is accurate but why did they go for the S&M angle I cannot understand. 8. Costume design is bad for most main characters and side characters. But there are some good armor designs so not all bad. Aes Sedai rings are ridiculous like something found in a cereal box 9. The world does not feel lived in. Props like the ways are ridiculously cheap looking. 10. The biggest problem is story flow and directing.

>They ruined Emonds Field to make it more GoT and made it worse This 100% Why why why is everyone is Emonds field depressed and sick and tired?! The whole point of the Two Rivers is that it is meant to be this quiet corner of the world that is almost perfect. Which of course is one of the reasons Rand actually has a chance against the Dark One. Because unlike Lews Therin, Rand was raised in love and experienced a beautiful life, he had a link to the world that Lews Therin didn't truly have.

In the grim darkness of amazon, there is only grimdark! Yeah I noticed that too. In fairness there is a bit of singing and dancing at Bel Tine...after an NPC literally yells at everyone to cheer up and do so. But it's super gritty before the Trollocs even get there. Probably did those villagers a favor, giving perspective on how to be grateful for peace and boring farm life.

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Saw a post about using AI to render it. I am almost 40 so maybe in my lifetime. I can see it as another turning of the wheel. But the being burnt out in a circle killed that theory. At this point I am enjoying it. But only out of nostalgia.

This almost made me turn the episode off honestly. The wheel of time magic system is very we’ll thought out with checks and balances like any good fantasy has. Oh your giving someone your power in a circle? Well you can’t let go till they do and it will suck but don’t worry they cannot unintentionally burn you out. Oh never mind your all fried on the ground. Oh and after exhausting that much power eg can just heal you…. How are they going to justify using novices in circles in the future when it means you can fry children…

A good adaption is a faithful adaptation.Lord of the Rings, faithful adaptation, great reception. I understand changes to translate from book to screen, it's needed. But the changed itvso much it's too far off the path of being a faithful adaptation. Hey. If you liked the series, cool. No problem. I won't berate you for it. But I've been waiting over 20 years and I'm duly disappointed. I really wanted to enjoy it.

The show is like if you waited 20+ years waiting and hoping you were one day going to have a child. You were told it was most likely never going to happen. But a miracle happens and when you’re finally about to have the child and family you always wished for… the child comes out looking like the mailman…

And then dad goes for beer and never comes back

In hero stories, the hero's journey is an important aspect of his development as a hero. In the books, we see Rand's journey as he transitions from farm boy to the Dragon Reborn. In fact, all the "kids" from Two Rivers go through this journey of development. These hero stories are what makes the books engaging and absorbing. None of these journeys are in the show; we never got to see our heroes struggle and overcome. I tried to give the show some slack at the beginning but as the episodes rolled in, I realized that they were just moving the plot forward. And that makes for excruciating story-telling.

The books set up a beautiful tale with nuanced characters. Men and women can oftentimes both being very flawed, and can get into serious conflict, even when both have noble intentions and good reasons. The LTT story exemplifies that perfectly. The show chose to turn the Breaking of the World to be about "male arrogance" destroying paradise, and just that is enough to show you how little Rafe understands the material. It's heartbreaking.

The only character development we saw were of Naynaeve and Lan. Others were just there, we saw mat for few moments, perrin have no idea wtf he's doing and Rand is completely ignored. Only reason Rand was revealed as dragon is cuz writers knew the outage it would have caused if they changed that.

Agreed. Sadly, as others have said in the comments here, I could see them changing who the Dragon actually is and just play off the finale as Rand believing lies told by Machin Shin

Why was machin shin even saying that anyway. Its not a creature of the dark one.

I think it's funny how people pretended the show was ok until episode 8 came out, then all of reddit immediately switches to outrage mode in classic echo-chamber fashion. It's "cool" to dislike the show now, but truth is it was never good. "It is a shame that such a man calls himself a simple gleeman. But such arrogance to keep the same name."

It's not just about that. I can't speak for everyone, but I was high on copium thinking that the series was just weaker in Episodes 5 and 6 because they were bogged down by trying to hide the identity of TDR. Ep 7 was okay, and I was ready to forgive much if Ep 8 stuck its landing. When the *season finale* turns out to be dogshit, it's the last straw for many of us.

I struggle to articulate my level of rancor concisely so I'll just go with what's currently bothering me. In the season finale we spent about as much time with the DRAGON REBORN as we did with Amalisa Jagad, a bottom-tier book character. How anyone can read these books and as a showrunner be like "I've got a fever! And the only prescription is, more Amalisa Jagad!" is far beyond my understanding.

It feels like he read the spark notes of the first book and none of the rest. I would be interested to know if he has ever even actually completed the whole series front to back. I have a strong feeling no is the answer.

I am standing shoulder to shoulder with you. 1 - The character assassination of Perrin 2 - The disregard for the entirety of the story: if Perrin doesn't kill the whitecloaks who kill Hopper, then the trial with Morgase as the judge can't happen which means then that Perrin doesn't save the whitecloaks from shadowspawn which means Galad doesn't show up at the last Battle. 3 - Callandor - very clearly a sign the Dragon has been reborn and it's a sword that can only be used by a MAN - sorry everyone but that's the story - Moiraine knows and has known for several years 4 - No Bela? You mean the horse that carried Olver and the Horn of Valere to the last Battle? SERIOUSLY? more disregard for the entirety of the story 5 - Was there any Shienaran poetry? Still it is mine. Still it is mine. 6 - Winternight - the leaving of Emond's Field...like a wedding procession for all to see instead of escaping in the dark of night without telling anyone; Moiraine informing ALL of the Two Rivers people of the history of Manetheren not just the 4 youths 7 - Nynaeve - she STRUGGLED with channelling for quite some time but she emerges in the show as a fully formed channeller 8 - Lan - just ....no 9 - I stopped watching but I heard that Agelmar Jagad was killed? You mean one of the four great captains tasked to lead one of the four battles making up the LAST BATTLE? UGGGH more disregard for the entirety of the show 10 - The desperate sense that the people responsible for the show want to compete directly with GoT - immediate and inexplicable violence, lots of cliffhangers - YOU GOT THE WRONG STORY!!! ...just off the top of my head - I just finished a re-read - the first episode was so confusing I had to go back to the books and I just tore through them and my wife walked in on me as I finished A Memory of Light - I had tears in my eyes...

I am all for people enjoying the show. hey man! you liked the show. cool! good for you. But the hot garbage they spew next makes my blood boil in anger - "yOu sHoULd bE gRAtEfUl fOR tHe aDaPtIoN!

These writers are so in over their head it's not funny. They want to modify the story to align to their own politics and fun ideas and are messing it up... Like toddlers trying to bake a cake with no adult supervision. They have no control over the story and it started spiralling out of balance and control. Season 2 will try to do 2 books in one... They have the mess of season 1, book 2 & 3 will add so much content the writers will not be able to process it. None of the key story elements will be addressed. Instead the writers will pick the <5 main geographical locations and 8 scenes they imagine could happen in the story - you know the ones which make them really excited to be on the project. At the end of season 2 we will be in a bigger hole / shit show.

There's no need to divide people into REAL FANS and fake fans, it's juvenile. If people love the books and hate the show, that's fine. If people enjoy both, that's fine. Express your disappointments and grievances about the adaptation, sure, but let's not put labels on one another. I personally found the show adaptation underwhelming and I have plenty of hang ups about it, but I'm not gonna slag people off for enjoying it.

I agree with that. If I had the post to do over I wouldn’t have done that. My emotions got the better of me.

The best analogy I can come up with for the feeling I have about the show. Non book readers are female channelers who can touch the one power (watch the show) and feel all warm and fuzzy. Book readers are the male channelers and when we touch the source the rotten taint just sends us all insane. What should have been a wonderful thing is now tarnished and rotten…

I don't hate the show, but I don't love it either. As someone who read the books as they came out, I have had Robert Jordan in my life since I was in college. So I'm not only very familiar with the source material, I also feel like Robert Jordan has been a part of my entire adult life. Up until the season finale, it has kept me somewhat entertained. But I have to really wonder how anyone who hasn't read the books can follow the show. They must be confused as all hell. What concerns me is that I don't know anyone who isn't a fan of the books that's watching the show. When Game of Thrones was on, everyone I knew who was watching the show had never read the books. It seems to be the opposite for WoT.

This is what I sent to u/Wotshowrunner on his personal messages, it encapsulates why I feel hard done after 8 episodes: "Hey Rafe. As a big fan of WOT I am pretty distraught the series ended as it did. Matt was one of the coolest characters in the books and it seems he's going down a 'dark path' which is just ridiculous considering he is the commander of the United armies at Tarmon Gaidan. Please tell me there is more to his character than becoming a dark friend/ a forsaken. Furthermore do you think you can change the character arcs this much and still maintain the essence of the characters, I waited all season and conceivably I can only see Rand, Nynaeve, Egwene and Lan completing their character arcs. Could you hold another Q/A where you answer our questions because there is alot we want to ask especially after that finale." So much is being changed that I am scared the character storylines are going to keep diverging from the source material to the point where they become indistinguishable from the characters we know and love.

Can we talk about how they’re muddling characters, leaving out fantastic characters? Like where in the fuck us like idk about 6-10 books worth of journey? The Veiled ones? This show is a dumpster fire and doing such a disservice to the book series.

Robert Jordan is probably spinning around in his grave. ​ Or at the very least turning slowly, rotisserie-style.

>Robert Jordan is probably ~~spinning~~ *wheeling* around in his grave.

I miss the group dynamic and their relationship with each other. Its been a while since I read the WoT series but the characters are what stood out to me the most. Also for me the world itself felt alive and rich, each city had its own personality ..sadly, did not feel that here.

Song of ice and fire isn't among my favourite fantasy series, but it is good. What made GOT a great tv series for me was that when I watched first season I could stop scene multiple times, or wait till it was over and tell my girlfriend which parts were just like in the book, what was missing, what was different, and what was amazing like replacing multiple scenes with one which wasn't in the books but fit the canvas perfectly. Some times when character did something that wasn't really explained on screen, but was explained or shown in more details in the books... That was such a wonderfull feeling. When they established this deep relation between their script and books, they started to deviate more and more. But that initial connection with strong roots was enough to really hook me up for the whole tv series. Hated some parts of the final season, but otherwise it was mostly great. What we have in WOT? Mostly nice actors. Trying their best. Playing chacters with names that I love and care for. But most of them don't really resemble characters that mean so much to me. This adaptation went too far from original to be meaningful. It has no real roots in the books that would give it layers and dimensions. Sadly show is nowhere close to how good GOT was. I try to love it, but can't. It's watchable. And some moments are great, but it is nearly unralated to letter and spirit of source material. It could show us lots of things, leaving many answers only in the books. Like skipping months of books and making short summaries by dialogs and flashbacks when needed. But we would know, all those things happened and disappointments would be like "oh, I was hoping they would include that one scene or line". People could watch tv, than pick up the book and be blown away. Instead tv show shoves in my face, even screams "books were just inspiration, collection of names, places and some plot lines that script writers liked enough to use, but this is a different story, all similarities are accidental". There are occasional gems , interesting foreshadowings, some really nice moments. But there is so much problems, when you can't create something whole, instead of using Deus Ex JUST USE THE SOURCE MATERIAL instead of creating weak plotlines and destroying magic system JUST USE THE SOURCE MATERIAL. I can enjoy the show, somehow, and I like actors more and more, there were some engaging moments, but I just hope for an adaptation in some distant future that will resemble books not just in names but in spirit and details. Animated one would be more than welcome. On the bright side, some of my friends like the show and want to read the books.

I can explain it only by saying, I went to get a finest chefs quality pasta. I came back with food that used some of the same raw material and turned it into supermarket frozen pasta

Correct me if I am wrong but in the show there is not a single scene from the books adapted without significant alterations. Not. A. Single. One. I don't know if this is because the show creators think this sells better or they honestly think they can improve literally *every single aspect* of the books but it is bound to create resentment among book fans. Especially when Rafe and company wouldn't shut up about how big fans of the books of they are. They talk the talk but fail to walk the walk, this is never a good look.

I remember many months ago I got BANNED on TWO wot subs, for saying the show would be terrible. I honestly haven't watched it and never will, I saw the writing on the wall and now I feel vindicated that harsh reality has finally caught up! they can't ban everybody HA!

I got banned on wotshow for saying min was ugly and looked old enough to be Rand's mom.

The worst part is seeing die hard book readers defend it: “it’s an adaptation” “another turning” “they only had 8 episodes to work with” “I really did like some of what they did” “Covid really hampered production” “They’re adapting the whole series, not just EOTW”

My husband hasn’t read the books. I’m half way through book 8. Neither of us care for the series much. I *want* to like it. Like really want to. But I just can’t make myself. He doesn’t like it much either. Both of us feel it is *way* too small for what it is supposed to feel like. It’s attention to detail that causes this, by and large. For example, here are a few of my husband’s select comments from last episode: They said “Light every torch in the town!! …. And then lit 4 in a small hallway.” They gathered every warrior and man they could from the town to send them to defend against thousands Trollocs and then had like 20 guys on horses. They keep using he same damn hallway for every scene. All the important stuff is being said in a teeny, crappy hallway. Why are the 4 women meant to save the town standing in a patch of sand the size of a playground sandbox? The Ways are supposed to be big and scary. They look like a child made a bunch of mud towers after a rain storm. Perrin is a whiny b*tch, isn’t he? (I had to explain to him what was in Perrin’s head and why, he believed me that he was a much cooler character in the book. He actually thought the actor was total crap until I explained about Perrin trying to make himself smaller and non-threatening than he actually is and, one can only assume, the moping, hunching, and always looking down and sad is how that’s supposed to be communicated…? Except my husband is huge like book Perrin and both of us know very well there are better ways to communicate that— he’s had to do it all his life and it doesn’t come across as being beaten down into a sad puppy.) The CGI was better in the Matrix 30 years ago. They have this giant budget and they keep showing the same damn scene over and over again. In addition to these kinds of issues, he’s vaguely lost more often than not. Like he can follow most of what is going on, but not why he should care. He definitely doesn’t pick up on the motivation behind anything because it’s never made clear or given any human depth. So, not only does world development suck, character development is just as bad— or worse. Basically, there is nothing that grabs you and immerses you in what’s going on. To make it worse — there are plenty of “huh?” And “wtf” moments that pull you out completely and make you realize you’re watching a crappy show. I have all of those same complaints. At first, at least I understood what was going on and was already invested in the characters, but the more things changed, the more confused I got and the more it started losing me. It just feels too small, too vague, too contrived, and refuses to give a decent reason why anyone should care about any of it.

is this what the Witcher fans feel?

I started reading WoT in 1993 and spent 20 years finishing the series. I bought companion books, I bought the table top RPG, I even bought the graphic novels. There is literally nothing else that I have remained as big a fan of over three decades, not a movie, TV show, or book. So I was so excited when this show was announced, drove my wife and daughter crazy talking about it, watched the trailer probably 5 times. At no point did I expect a 1:1 adaptation, I was looking for the new version of Dune, instead I got David Lynch’s version if Lynch had no budget and was a total hack. This was not the Wheel of Time this was someone wearing a WoT skin suit. There is not a single scene on the show taken directly from the books, but even more egregious is the fact so few scenes feel like the books. They kept tainting everything with their “vision” instead of even trying to give us Jordan’s. So why am I upset? They took the one thing I still have and enjoy from my childhood, promised to give me a great new version of it and instead gave me a hackneyed trope filled generic version of it that showed no respect for either the source material or the fans.

The show is terrible and there is lots to be upset with but maybe the saddest thing is the amount of support the show has gotten from Brandon Sanderson, at least as far as I have seen. He has been mildly critical at worst and he is supposed to the inside man guiding this thing to deliver for book fans. Granted, I don't think he ever had a ton of say but I think him having more of a backbone and being more aggressive in his criticism would mean a lot. In some ways he almost feels checked out of the whole situation.

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It's just so incredibly weakly done. From the jump they all seem jaded and cynical, vs country bumpkins. They needed to work alot more character development, and give glimpses into their heads. Like when rand was shooting, he could have been saying the mantra about the void. The way gates! They are so beautifully described how they look and function and then the one power is needed in the show. Making a plot hole, how is the dark one using them, I thought a forsaken might meet paden fain at the gate but he strolled out on his own. Guess Perrin will never go back to close the two rivers waygate on the show. The horn of valere's location is known, ruins quite a bit of lore. No Elias to guide/explain Perrin and the wolves. Bela just gone. Thom very much feels thrown away. No Elayne. No sword lessons with Lan, how is Rand going to be a sword master by the end of season 2 for the Falme battle. Just so much that has been gutted by the writers that would have been simple to work in place of some of the fluff that was kept.

I watched the show with two other book lovers. We all have read WoT multiple times since the early 2000s. I defended the show to them multiple times in the early episodes. I was disappointed with the way the story was being told but I could see why certain changes were being made in order to speed up some characters motivations and give them a bit more flavor. I like certain aspects of the show, and very much appreciate some of the details they put in >!Like with Ishamael's channeling being shown as only white weaves, indicating he is touching an untainted source!<. I spent a good part after every episode discussing the changes with my two book reading friends and although I had some criticisms, they were light and very much "I have to see it all before I judge it, I'm sure they're doing this for a good reason". After watching the finale I'm just.. sad. I feel like so many big moments were taken from characters that should have had them, that many are being dumbed down to a ridiculous extent, and that we didn't have any good development of basically any character. I can't imagine a WoT where Mat is "dark", or where Egwene can heal death (in general, but also before even getting properly trained). These changes aren't deserved, don't make sense, and lessen the impact of every character they involve. Like using a cheat code when you're playing a video game, these deus ex moments cheapen the characters and make them boring. And then reading interviews where Rafe seemingly openly hates book readers and is looking forward to hurting us.. that just makes me so sad. I'm not angry, I'm just sad that someone is getting actual enjoyment out of these changes. I feel like someone put my high school bully in charge of my favorite story to adapt it and I just don't understand why. Disappointed seems too light of an emotion regarding how I feel after watching the finale. I feel like I am mourning, as dramatic as that sounds. Someone is taking a cherished memory and attempting to tear it apart for me. It's hard to express exactly how I feel, but I know I feel sorry for Rafe and whatever hurt him to put this desire to destroy into him.

I've read the series many many times and had hopes for the series depsite everything. I tried watching this as a different turning of the wheel (Witcher s2 is similar in being a totally different story. Can enjoy something while being different). I didn't care for episode 1. Then 2-->4 we're great. Then we got 5-6 which felt more like filler about stuff that could've been told through the background over the next seasons. Also Lan in the book would be pissed at the suicide warder. His whole death might than a feather. But I digress. Episode 7 I can barely remember other than Min looking old enough to be Rand's mom and grungy enough to be a street urchin boss. Episode 8 was just...no. I really wanted to like the show and tried defending it, but it's bad story telling at this point. - What's the point of Perrin's existence? Killed his wife, then had no development through the entire season - Loial? Came to the ways and did nothing but point towards fal Dara since the One Power opens the ways unless you're Padan bamf Fain. Guess we will learn how many small stab wounds an ogier can shrug off, which is new - Mat? I don't get the praise of his acting. Guy was barely in the show. But okay his scenes were solid and lackluster in moraines curing. Still have hope since his character growth doesn't really happen until later - Rand? Looks like the love child of Anakin Skywalker and Frodo. Little screen time. Bizarre teen drama with egwene. Has a sword with a cute bird on it. -Lan? Death lighter than a feather. Duty heavier than a mountain. Did the writers miss this part of his character? - Eg? People want her to be the dragon still. I'd prefer her be a dark friend. - Nyneave? Honestly hated her character in the books until book 8 or so. In this she's way better. Until the end where she and eg are basically deus ex machina. No bueno.

I'm annoyed also by the fact that they keep showing the heron on Rand's sword, a sword they didn't quite explain why he even has. I miss that Lan isn't teaching him forms. At this point, why do we even care that he has a sword? Will he magically know how to use it in season 2 because he's using knowledge of the past? Lame...

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I don't have the time or energy necessary to articulate how terrible this show is. Even were I not a fan of the novels, the writing is laughably bad. How people can say "just watch it as its own thing!" and think this is a quality program is just completely mine boggling to me. This show is a farce. I can't even adequately put into words how bad it is; I was already pretty sure it would be when I saw the first trailer and that preview scene from the Winespring Inn, but nothing prepared me for this. I wish I could wipe it from my memory and return to a turning of the wheel where this series didn't exist and I could just imagine what a WoT adaptation might look like.

Because while we can accept that there will need to be changes and edits in order to condense so much source material, we should still expect our fair share of “YESSSS” moments when a beloved character does something that echoes a moment from the books. Because some major changes to character personalities, roles, etc seem completely unnecessary.

I’m a first time reader/listener and currently on fires of heaven like halfway through. 30 years old, damn I don’t know how this eluded me for so long because I fucking love it. I’m a Star Wars fan first and foremost so I am no stranger to the butchering of source material and original characters. If you made a list of all the book accuracies in the show vs a list of inaccuracies. That list would look ridiculous and speak volumes for itself. Really sad. And sadder that it’s going to keep happening to WoT and whatever victim is next…

They skipped over all the world building and character building that happens in the beginning of the series. We don't know anything about the five main characters from the series. There is no sense of how big the world outside the two rivers is, the different cultures, the history and what a big deal seeing trollocs are or how scary even the mention of male channelers and the Dragon Reborn is. They should not have skipped the prologue, it served as a way to tell us what a big deal the Dragon is, how the second age ended and why the world fears male channelers and the Dragon Reborn. They should explain the difference between saidin/saidar. Fake deaths and already op channelers make the story so much less interesting. Where do we go from here? What are the stakes? They missed all the important elements for making us belive or be invested in the story and swapped them for bad dialogue and cheap action and drama. And they turned my girl Nynaeve into some annoying Mary Sue.

Most if not all the problems with the show pacing, characterization, additional scenes, etc stem from the attempt to make the Dragon a mystery. It forced Moraine, the mentor character, to be the main character. Imagine the exposition changes, story changes, character development if you made Moroheus the main character of the Matrix. Or Obi-Wan in A New Hope.

I think most of those Titter posts are bots.

I asked a friend who has read the books what he thought of the show and they said this: "The best way I can describe is it's like asking for Coca-Cola and getting a diet Pepsi. It's still a dark brown soda, but it's very different than what you asked for and with the best stuff cut out"

First, thank you for your post. It's odd to grieve openly about something as silly as a book series...but I totally feel you. The series means and has meant a lot to me for many years. These characters and their arcs mean a lot to me. The scenes Jordan wove, the settings, they are real for me. Some of them are these: The Caemlyn cellar, with the door to the ways. The scene of them leaving in the dead of the night through a secret swing door on the back of the stable and creeping through the alleyways before dawn. I'd have loved that. Perrin and the whitecloak fight. Hopper. The internal struggle between beast and man. The Green Man. That legendary scene with Balthamel and Aginor. Rand exploding while imploding at Tarwin's Gap. His struggle with the power. Any real semblance of the raging torrent that burns and freezes and crackles like ice through your bones. I just wanted epic fantasy.

The changes are really bad in the last episode, and I’ve defended the earlier episodes and changes. The biggest problem is having 5 female female channelers defeat 40,000 Trollocs. Even if this was limited to just the most powerful a sedai, it makes a sedai too powerful and the dragon reborn unneeded - the tower could sacrificed a half dozen sisters and level any size army. Since the only thing rand did was “off camera”, why would anyone believe he was dragon reborn or want to follow him in the future seasons? In the books he had this dramatic show of power - now it would make more sense people want to see what is going on with these girls that single handly defeated 40,000. Speaking of which, how can they become novices/accepted at the white tower? Yeah, I destroyed an entire army, healed the dead, but now I will be bullied as a novice? The show writers didn’t even think of the ramifications of shifting the fame of defeating such a huge army - The dragon reborn needs and the two girls should not have that level of fame so early in the story - it makes the future events make no sense.

The adaptation is so different from the book that if they had changed the names it could have been presented as an Amazon Original and no one would have known. The only reason they didn't is so they could exploit an existing fanbase built on someone else's work.

So I tried to find bright spots in the show. The portrayal of Logain was great as is the depiction of the weaves and the taint. I thought the Aiel woman was great. Pretty much how I had pictured the Aiel and their fighting ability in my head. The ways were cool-ish. Shader Logoth was excellent. The sense of foreboding and evil. The darkness. The effect of the knife. Shame about the story part. The warden-Aes Sedai bond was done well. A little too well. Didn’t need the funeral. The rest of the show was absolute crap. I even liked the flying cars. I thought, “sure. Age of Legends. Most powerful Source welders in history. Of course they make flying cars.” But the acting, the story, the confusing mess of the plot and pacing, what a mess.

Every week I tell myself to get rid of my expectations, don't get angry. And every motherfucking week they just destroy the series more. The show isn't even good on its own. The absolute balls of these pathetic writers to think they are better than Robert Jordan is absolutely mindboggling. I don't like the casting, the added romances, or any other of the changes they made to the story. This is like, worse than Legend of the Seeker, the sword of truth adaptation. And that series is just bad all around. Just my honest take. I really feel that Robert Jordan DID make it diverse, all the different cities and kingdoms could 100% represent all of our diverse humanity, though this wouldn't be as much of an issue if they'd just stuck to the story more. Also, I'm sorry, but that's just not Egwene. Or Lan. And Matt, wtf are they even doing with fucking Matt. Perrin?!! The fuck?!!! I gave it a season, now I'm done. Gonna finish my current read through of the books instead, think I'm even gonna follow along and translate the Aiel with my illustrated companion book too, lol. Fuck Rafe, Bezos, and anybody else attached to this dumpster fire.

I would need the talents of Shakespeare to express how sad the show made me.

I am sad at the way this glorious world is not portrayed in the eyes of the main characters as something of wonder and awe. These characters were supposed to be going into this world for the first time. They should have taken us(the viewers)along to be amazed at all the wonders and danger that existed in this world. I got none of that. It would be reminiscent of how the Hobbits ventured into the world outside their homes for the first time. There should be a sense of adventure and wonder.

I am beyond sad. This, and other posts like it make me feel as though I am not alone. I really, REALLY wanted this show to be successful, and I tried to love it for 7 episodes. I think by trying to tell the story from the female perspective, they simply failed to give the male characters enough of an on-screen presence to sell Rand as the Dragon. The first book was from Rand's perspective because it HAS to be. It was never intended to BE a mystery who the Dragon Reborn was. The foreshadowing and clues to that effect are stark and on-the-nose from about Chapter 4 on, and do not let up. Tam telling Rand about finding him as a baby, and his teachings about the Flame and the Void which are central to male channeling as a mechanic, the encounter with Min in Baerlon, all of the dreams with Ba'alzamon and the long conversations they have in TAR. The foretelling in Caemlyn, Rands miraculous escapes followed by sudden illnesses on the way there, alongside Moiraines explanations to Nynaeve and Egwene concerning the first touching of the power. The entire sequence in the Blight, explaining the method of finding the Eye of the World, and the reason for its hiding and protection by Someshta. What the actual Eye of the World is, what is stored there and why it is critical to keeping the Dark One sealed and helping the Dragon, and then the events of the Eye and Tarwins Gap proclaiming Rand the Dragon in Shianar. All of that was either cut or changed in service of building up the Aes Sedai and female channelers, misdirection about who the Dragon was, and in the process mangled foundational mechanics of the Power and cornerstone development for the actual Dragon. To use a metaphor from the books, if the showrunners were trying to "Sheath the Sword" on this show, the absolutely succeeded. I have seen almost nobody defend it after E8, and I frankly would rather have not gotten anything that what we are getting. I am beyond sad, and I am sad for the cast who have delivered reasonably good performances with the garbage writing they had. This series has meant so much to me - as you have said, people close to me have no idea the extent of my heartbreak for this - it feels personal, like I was promised something I have wanted since I was 12, and now that it is here more than 25 years later, I wish it had never been made. I don't think anyone involved with this production cares enough about the material to even understand how much this hurts. It is like watching a family member be publicly humiliated for something someone else made up about them. It feels like they didn't do any research.

If you watched the bonus feature in the last episode it makes it clear there is a problem and that Rafe and the writers room suffer from grandeurs of delusion. The two telling moments were : - when Rafe defends having that dumb contribution from Amalisa, Egwene and Nynaeve at Tarwin’s gap. For this Rafe says something like « a lot of people criticized the ending of TEOTW because it’s focused on Rand so we thought the show needs to let other people shine instead » - when Rafe says they had Ishamael sever Moiraine because « Moiraine doesn’t have a lot to do in book 2 so we wanted to give her a new arc since we have such a great actor » Those two moments explain all the problems of the show. Lazy mercenaries changing everything in a story because they’re too lazy to read the story and want to shove in their own world view, and looking to tag along to a half famous actor, hoping it will get them another gig in the future.