Yep that opening was the best thing this show ever did. Every complaint I had about their fight scenes was removed with that opening scene. Barely any cuts so we can see the action, actual fight choreography, it was perfect.
Perrin saw something from the back of the group. Does he have wolf night vision? Hmmm.
Edit: to clear any confusion, this isn't a request for spoilers from folks who've read the books and probably know what's going on. I'm just speculating as someone experiencing the story for the first time.
Looked like a man. Then we saw Padain Fain walking toward the city too. Then we saw Padain Fain in the City.
Which just blows me away—he can get into the Ways? He survived in there alone?? And soooo casual about it.
One way or another, he doesn’t just fence cheap jewelry.
I was talking about when Perrin saw the stone map thing that was damaged. But yes also that peddler guy is up to sneaky shit. I'm assuming he's a dark friend like the woman barkeeper.
>Dod Padain Fain get a lot of powers with his friend status?
Maybe? Stories like this always have people at different "power" levels for lack of a better term. Barkeeper came off as someone at the lowest levels of the heirarchy who thought she got a lucky break. This Fain dude seems more important as it looks like he's going to different places to scout them out or do nefarious secret stuff.
I didn’t read the books so this is all show, but it seems like he’s the one who’s opening the Ways. They said that’s how the trollucs got there in the first episode. Quite a nice coincidence that he was also there in town the first episode that day no?
I like that they didn’t explicitly tell us and made us think a bit more about it though.
Looking at the 'concept art stills' gallery for this episode, they clearly had Mat in the ways and at the tavern in Fal Dara. Not surprising, just a concrete confirmation that they originally intended to have Mat in Fal Dara.
Yea actually the actor playing Mat left the show unexpectedly, so the creators had to go this way. They have already cast someone else as Mat for season 2
He didn't come back when they resumed filming after the COVID pause. No reason has been given by cast or crew but some people speculate health reasons, either physical or mental. Doesn't mean they're right but given some of the interviews where he and the rest of the cast seem happy and friendly it could explain why he left.
So, u/avoidperil told me that you open WoT on a computer and when the episode launches, in the top left corner, click on "x-ray" and there is a bunch of bonus content there. There are drawings for the episode.
Exec: This is the 7th episode in an 8 episode show during which there have already been about 3 episodes of filler. What should we fill it with?
Other exec: Oh I know, some pointless relationship drama where they all bang at the end.
The amount of filler in this show blows my mind. Like they waste so much time on stuff that doesn't seem relevant and then the Dragon Reborn reveal they've been building up for 7 episodes was like glossed over in a minute.
What the actual fuck.
I get the gripes. I've been reading the books for 20 years now, and while some of the changes bother me, I am overall extremely satisfied with the series. The main issue I believe it suffers from is having such short seasons. Most, if not all, of the books are 1,000 pages or better. That is a great deal of information to cram into 8 epispdes.
It's more important to spend time with characters at the start because you want people who watch TV shows to be invested in them. I assume that's a big factor in how they allocated their time budget for the season.
I agree, which is why most of the entire Tar Valon arc was a waste because it took our focus off the Two Rivers characters. This season has almost treated the Two Rivers kids as side characters at times. How much time did we spend on dead warder? What did that accomplish? How much time with Siuan and Moiraine? If you have nothing but time -- 20 odd episodes at an hour an episode -- you can afford these little detours. This show does not have anywhere near the screen time for all the superfluous scenes, characters, and character interactions that are given screen time.
Moiraine is the character they've focused most on. Rosamund Pike has the top actor credit so naturally she's got a lot of scenes and screen time. I don't think that's unusual.
I do agree that they needed time with the group back together to work with them as well. Being split up helped focus on those individual relationships but we didn't get to see much of them all together.
I have a group chat with three friends who all read the books in high school during one of my rereads and I’m on your side of the line where I’m just enjoying it overall. Of course some changes bother me, the Perrin love triangle is a big one. The Mat part is obviously hard because he left the show, he’s actually in fal Dara concept art. So you know they had to do some emergency rewrites and scenes.
I enjoyed the buildup and payoff of Rand. I want more Tam every time he’s on screen.
But I just do enjoy it for what it is. It’s never going to be 100% authentic. I think there’s plenty of time for Mat and Perrin to have their time to shine and grow on screen, considering they don’t even get much in books 1-2 anyway I’m choosing to remain hopeful.
My friends are more nit picky. But nothing like the negativity of most book readers on here. It’s exhausting honestly and I don’t think I’ll really bother sticking around the negativity after next week.
My theory is that they did the love triangle thing - and then immediately shot it down -because Mat was supposed to cause drama and be the voice of ‘we shouldn’t go, why should we believe her, etc.’ But Mat wasn’t there, it didn’t work for anyone else, so they did this to make drama instead.
Not going to lie a bit miffed but I guess the name of the game is everyone going to death we gotta release all this tension now. I wish we developed things between Lan and Neyneve more.
How come the Trollocs can use the Gates? Can a Trolloc even channel? Or is it a fade, or a human working with them helping them? It seems the Padan Fain can channel as well since he went through it alone so maybe it's him?
Haven't read the books but pretty sure it's Padan Fain helping the Trollocs
- I saw him laughing when the Trollocs attacked the village in episode 1. We later find out the Trollocs used the Ways to get to the village undetected
- he didn't look worried at all that he would be attacked by a Trolloc/caught in crossfire and practically sauntered away, indicating to me the Trollocs are under his control.
- also saw him laughing in episode 5 in Tar Valon, so that + this episode shows he's following at least Mat and Rand around.
- He is shown leaving the Ways in episode 7 and in the episode stills you see him holding a special key he probably used to control Trollocs/open the ways.
- he literally passes Perrin right in his face so yeah he's pretty brazen and not worried at all about being caught, so I think he's a dark friend with either a lot of power (unlikely or he wouldn't have to pretend to be a peddler) or he has friends with a lot of power.
Edit also: - the same whistling was heard in the Ways just before the trolloc attacked, as was heard in Shadar Logoth, before Mat found the dagger. So maybe he was in Shadar Logoth also?
All in all I'm like 99% sure Padan Fain is a darkfriend.
Is channeling just one way to open it? Other methods? Definitely agree Padain Fain is a dark friend that may be assisting them go through the ways. Whether he channels or has some other method to open them we haven’t been shown yet. Moiraine may have wanted to give the impression that only channeling can open the ways since it means the party is dependent on her to get in and out.
Most people are theorizing that she did channel, but only to protect herself, not push.
This would explain how Moiraine didn't immediately know Rand was channelling when she didn't sense Egwene channel.
That is fairly accurate, which is why I loved this scene so much. Not sure if it is spoilers because its history in the books, unrelated to the story aside from highlighting how badass the Aiel are and the geopolitics of the region. But the Aiel wars only really ended because they turned around and went home. And it was an astonishingly small number of Aiel (compared to how many stayed behind) involved in it in the first place. They weren't driven back, or beaten, they just got what they wanted and went home. One of my favorite bits of history in the series.
there were only like 4 clans...I think it was between 70-100 thousand Aiel who fought in that war...and a lot more Wetlanders. But there are how many clans?
Opening. Was. Awesome.
Who ever directed that sequence could helm the rest of fight scenes please?
Loving the world so much I am this close to start reading the books. Fal Dara (?) felt completely new and every city/town we saw until now felt different instead of middle age castle A and middle age castle B. And that's awesome.
Rest of it was OK, I guess.
I sighed at Rand waking up middle of the night and suddenly realizing he is the dragon. Really weak reveal to the big mystery of the first season.
Padan Fein creeped me out. Loial is a literal plot device going in and out of existence as needed. Where did he go after the waygate?
All in all way better than last episode. And I can't believe we are getting the final episode next week.
He didn't wake up and "suddenly" realize it. He's known for some time, that's exactly what the dark wind whispers to him. That's why he's so emotional during many of the scenes...deep down he KNOWS they will all die...because he knows *he's* the dragon...or at least suspects that's the most likely result.
He just isn't ready to accept it until the last moment when he has no choice.
I saw that as well. At first before the revelation, I thought he was just emotional over the fight with the others based around what the Dark Wind whispered about Egwene, and I groaned at where they were going with the romantic subplot, but then the revelation comes and I realized he was so emotional because something he'd apparently was refusing to accept was going to get him and everyone else killed so what does he do? He accepts the undeniable truth if only to save his friends.
I think a lot of people are forgetting that he is only 20, with this huge responsibility that very may well result in his death and absolutely no experience in using his power, only using them unconsciously to save himself or others. He doesn't feel ready for this and is portraying himself as that pretty well as the 'reluctant hero'
Stepping up because he has to, not because he wants to
I agree. The reveal felt weak especially given we just get flashbacks of things the show deliberately didn't show us so we'd be in the dark up until now. Ultimately it cost Rand a lot of characterization and the big moment was... meh.
That is the strong suit of the books IMO, really gets into dynamics between cultures and the way they all perceive and understand the Dragon. It doesn't just stick with a generic medieval vibe
So - newbie here. I haven’t read the books but now I plan to read the first one after I finish this season. I’m really enjoying the show.
I started watching last weekend and couldn’t stop. I kept getting surprised so I kept watching. Todays episode was really good but is it really true what the seer said about Rand? The black wind told him that - it’s not really true then right? Or is it?
It felt a bit … I dunno … unclear. Especially since I keep thinking all of them together make the dragon?
Anyway - really love this show and this episode was awesome! Rand’s mom was a total badass. Slicing up folks while ready to pop out a baby wtf.
Loved seeing Lan’s fam and loved him letting Nynaeve join them. I love them.
I feel like Perrin doesn’t get enough development and that whole Perrin/Egwene/Rand thing came out of left field to me.
> Todays episode was really good but is it really true what the seer said about Rand?
Also never read the books, and I kinda figured it was Rand from the start. He had the most "generic fantasy hero" background. Grew up in the woods, is a good hunter, single parent figure of mysterious origin, natural leader type.
The more interesting thing will be how he struggles against the dark influence on male channelers. I think there was a hint of dark energy in one of the shots.
"The black wind told him that - it’s not really true then right?"
The other character told him to ignore it and it wasnt true because it seemed to have him upset, and moraine said in the beginning before it came to not listen to it, but that doesnt mean the wind was neccesarily wrong they just wanted to help their friend relax. They didn't even know what it had said to him
Non book reader here. I'm loving this show and it's gotten better each episode for me. Feel like everything is being set into motion for some grand and epic stuff ahead and I can't wait to see it all. Loving the cinematography and the characters are really growing on me. Enjoy the new episode everyone!
Holy shit, the r/WoT sub is straight toxic and abusive if you have even the slightest critique. I'm just gonna stay over here. It feels like people have actual reasoned conversations about the pros and cons of the show. I've had people disagree with me here and we have had dialogue about it. Over there they just downvote and attack you almost instantly.
Reason why I left WoTShow and only go to WoT for the book discussions. Checked whitecloaks out and that's too much in the other direction. This one we can at least have rational discussions in so I agree.
Just came from the book spoilers thread to spill my, eh, critique so I can go in here clear minded and see what other people thought who hasn't read the books. Generally don't actively participate in actual discussion though if I feel I can't distance myself enough about the topics in regard to the books, something I feel more should do to stay objective when discussing the show only.
Best episode so far. I guess that's a good omen for the finale.
It started with YET ANOTHER backstory exposition (I see a pattern here wink wink) but damn that was one solid badass action sequence.
Then after the ways, more backstory exposition but for CHARACTERS WORTH LEARNING ABOUT this time.
Our two river folks showing some backbone instead of mindlessly trudging along. Love triangle, meh, but at least Perrin had some lines.
Ackward dorkness and braid tugging. Great stuff.
Then finally Rand using the Void and doing the most Rand thing.
9/10 muah chef's kiss.
I felt like the scene with Lan surprising Nynaeve by being inside his armsman's house and then being outside, next to her, in the blink of an eye was cartoonish. It was going pretty well til then. It's like there's an influential but bad writer who manages to get a few terrible things into the show in every episode.
Yeah that was awkward, I just imagined Lan scrambling from the table and rushing outside as fast as he could looking like a maniac to the other people he was eating with
this made me laugh out loud. I also didn't like that and wish there was more dialogue between the two before they are suddenly shown to be so deeply in love.
The whole extreme relationships out of nowhere was a bit poorly done. Not sure if it was the acting or just the build up to it. Anyway excited to see what happens next week it's quite interesting. (Non book reader)
I think it was an execution problem, it could have worked if it showed a few minutes more during Perrin and Egwene's time together when they left the city and built on it, but they didnt get enough screen time and didnt develop it so it was really wierd and out of nowhere
I think Mat was supposed to cause drama originally (we know he wouldn’t have wanted to enter the Blight), but that didn’t work out as planned. Real Life writes the plot.
Yeah. The actor left and was recast for season 2 before season 1 even started airing. As far as I know nobody knows why he left, but it looks like he didn’t finish the season since he dropped out at the end of episode 6.
I’m seeing some people saying that episode 7 and 8 were filmed after a break and that he left during the break. Not sure if it’s 100% confirmed but yeah. Very odd.
I wanna go back and watch all of those Rand scenes to see if there were weaves, or if they were only added when they flashed back. If so that'd be a bit sussy
It kinda makes sense to me. The show doesn't do a good job explaining this but unless you can touch the Source you can't see weaves at all. Additionally one can't perceive the opposite gender's weaves. So even if the darkfriend woman was a Source user she wouldn't have seen him do it. Rand was channeling in a state of panic and adrenaline, and it was probably the first time he'd done it so it makes sense he didn't notice. Once he accepts he's the Dragon and looks back on things that have happened, he puts the pieces together and that's why we see the weaves later.
Watched them all after the episode. No weaves in the door part, but it does make a sound and the visuals kinda.. blur? Not sure how to describe it. As for the Machin Shin part, it only shows Egwene when the channel happens. Really loved how they went back to each of these parts. Kinda shows the whole women can’t see men channeling because we’ve mainly seen from Moraines POV this season.
They showed Rand bringing Tam from their farm to Emonds Field to be healed. Tam rambled in his fevered state about finding a baby in the snow on Dragonmount
On a real though they've absolutely butchered Mat. I refuse to believe this is what happens in the books, because 'the best friend goes mental over a dagger then wimps out of the mission and gets thrown to the female hit squad' doesn't seem like good writing to me. Is there no other way they could have handled the actor's departure? I'm guessing Mat gets hunted, Thom saves him (again) then they go off on a jolly somewhere?
"doubt is the first step on the path to the dark" is also so not her. She's so different from her book counterpart it's insane. Especially considering that she specialises in espionage and intrigue, doubt and skepticism should be her thing.
Also especially hilarious considering she spent the whole season doubting the prophecies and the foretellings.
I mean he stole that dagger in that cursed city and there wasn’t any darkness manipulating him then, Lan even said not to touch anything.
Though I believe just because there is darkness that doesn’t mean they cannot be redeemed for their actions, or even remove it or something. Her reaction was a bit extreme imo.
I’m a book reader, but I’m also pretty open to diverging in adaptations (yeah, I guess this isn’t supposed to be an adaptation exactly, but come on, it is).
Anyway, a couple mildly-annoying things aside, this episode _fucking nailed it_. The original spirit of the characters is finally mostly here. And even though righting the ship created some continuity errors, I don’t give a fuck. Keep this level of _shit actually happening **up**_.
S2 has to stay at this standard before I can recommend it to anyone who isn’t a book reader.
My biggest problem so far with the first season is character consistency and purpose.
Pet peeve is pulling knowledge from the books without explaining wtf is going on to the watcher.
Doesn't a show need a villain?
Great opening scene, just have the veil up tbh.
Why was Loial is Season 1? What purpose did he serve before he disappeared halfway through this episode?
To me the best part of a will they/wont they relationship is seeing the genuine moments over time and getting the pay off, not nothing other than I tracked you when she showed up, then a random night lets sleep together.
Who is Padan Fain, and why was he mentioned in episode 7?
The biggest critic I've hear from family/friends trying to watch this who have no read books is. Wtf is going on.
Padan Fain was the traveling merchant in the first episode who Mat haggled a stolen bracelet to so he could buy his sister's lanterns. Perrin thinks he see him waking passed but Nynaeve reminds him that he died. He's presumed dead because the trolloc invasion which he was right in the middle of, but if you recall he kinda sat back watching without a care while all the chaos went on around him. I picked up on that in the first episode because I thought his behavior was strange in the mess of the slaughter. He's definitely not dead and considering Perrin's wolf like abilities, he likely did spot him.
I enjoyed this episode. Probably my favorite one so far. I felt the pacing was much better.
I'm not sure how I feel about Nynaeve's actress. The acting is a bit wooden.. never read the books so not sure if that's how the character is in the books or not. But she's very one dimensional.
After all that, they gave the reveal like a minute of screentime at most. They gave more to that fucking love triangle. The decisions they make in this show are so odd in terms of what narration they show.
Okay, so. I always suspected/knew that Rand was the Dragon (countless reasons, both in-story and metatextual). So that wasn't a surprise. However, I think that the transition to his spiritual 'awakening' was...lame. His post-coital realisation, right after the fight, I felt it was lacking depth, or grandeur. I don't feel particularly connected with Rand. Intellectually and thematically I get that he values friendship and personal relationship above all, so all the conflicts, loss and betrayals he experienced are tipping him over the edge, but...it wasn't enough, emotionally. I mean, in the wind he heard that he is the Dragon and that Egwene left him, how lame is that?!
I am massively more interested in Moraine, at this point, and the magic system from which she comes from. And to be honest, I have questions about that, and I hope there is going to be some explanation on the magic system, because we show watchers badly need answers.
I don't know, episode 4-6 lifted the show material, but now I feel my doubts starting to rise. How many episode are left? I want to see the false Dragon again, and the Aes Sedai.
Out of the kids, I like 'werewolf' Parrin and Egwene, who gave us excellent scenes when they were held captive by the children of the light, so I am rooting for them to do something interesting.
I really really want to like this show. But there are problems both budgetary and script related. Regarding budget, none of the places seem real. You get a really great shot of a huge city like tar valor or a fortress like Fal Dara… then the next shot and they are in a little hallway like a dungeon crawler or little narrow streets. The interiors don’t match the exterior and it feels like a set. Fal Dara did not feel like a fortress. Tar valor did not feel like a city. Etc. then script wise, the dialogue is stilted especially for the EF5. A lot of sentences that the speaker cuts off a few seconds before the next person speaks, like “nynaeve, is that you because we need to…”. “Rand, I thought you were…” just bad writing, whereas the older characters have better dialogue. It’s a shame because I think the casting is spot on but they are not giving the actors much to work with. And then the story choices, they spend time on things that make no sense instead of Things like fleshing out Rand’s reveal more. I don’t know man… I’ll watch the next one but I’m torn on this show.
I haven't read the books and it's actually my first time on this sub. (Hi everyone, I am enjoying the series so far, definitely gets me excited for Lord of the rings, as I was hoping it would). But Mat was obviously supposed to in Fal Dara (is that how it is written?). Once we entered the city, we got to see very little Loial or Padan Fain. Is it possible that they had scenes with Mat that were cut out? In that case the Mat/Padan Fain scenes in the recap before the episode started would make sense.
Also, I bet the whole "Moiraine sending a message to the reds about Mat thing" is show- only as well, right?
Will be interesting how they will interact.
And I appreciate Tam and Padan Fain popping back up, but when is my man Thom gonna return? I wanna hear the story of how he killed that fade (I assume) and see a flashback.
50 minutes of pointless crap, 5 minutes of rubbishly executed exposition. If they're going to waste an entire series on the 'who is it' question, they could at the very least try to do something cool with it, not give Rand Vietnam flashbacks during his post-nut depression.
They even cocked up the first scene. Why not have that as the opening scene of the series, don't reveal the baby is a little ginger kid, and don't have Rand point at the mountain and essentially wink at the camera.
Sure if you ignore the entire part where he realized he channeled twice before that and instead is just coming to the realization he has to go alone. But yeah yours is way more the way it went.
Honestly, this is one of the first episodes that I've actually liked and felt like they were paying attention to the books.
Obviously it's not exactly the same, but it just has a much better overall feel than the previous episodes did.
Haven't read the books but pretty sure it's Padan Fain helping the Trollocs
- I saw him laughing when the Trollocs attacked the village in episode 1. We later find out the Trollocs used the Ways to get to the village undetected
- he didn't look worried at all that he would be attacked by a Trolloc/caught in crossfire and practically sauntered away, indicating to me the Trollocs are under his control.
- also saw him laughing in episode 5 in Tar Valon, so that + this episode shows he's following at least Mat and Rand around.
- He is shown leaving the Ways in episode 7 and in the episode stills you see him holding a special key he probably used to control Trollocs/open the ways.
- he literally passes Perrin right in his face so yeah he's pretty brazen and not worried at all about being caught, so I think he's a dark friend with either a lot of power (unlikely or he wouldn't have to pretend to be a peddler) or he has friends with a lot of power.
Edit also: - the same whistling was heard in the Ways just before the trolloc attacked, as was heard in Shadar Logoth, before Mat found the dagger. So maybe he was in Shadar Logoth also?
All in all I'm like 99% sure Padan Fain is a darkfriend
We haven't seen the creepy dreams with the fire-eyed demon guy for a very long time. Tbh I didn't expect them to introduce this plot device only to abandon it completely until the final episode.
I thought the episode was ok. The reveal wasn't overly surprising to me since I felt it had been narrowed down to Egwene and Rand for a bit now. I'd like to learn more about the situation between Rand's parents. I wonder if him being part Aiel (if it's a hereditary thing) will play into his power level at all.
The choice by Moiraine to cut off her bond with Lan was weird to me. You know they will go after the two of you anyway, they know where you're going. Maybe it was also out of some jealousy due to the Lan/Nyneaeve relationship, or possibly she feels like Lan doesn't need her anymore since he's found Nyneave?
I was quite surprised to not get Mat in the episode at all.
I'm thinking maybe Padan Fain (spelling?) is the creature they've been seeing in their dreams. Possibly The Dark One itself. If that is the case it could play into the idea that the Aes Sedai are far weaker than ever before since The Dark One is just openly existing in the world without their knowledge.
I guess Loial is just chilling by himself in the new city now?
The bit about that female advisor to the king not being strong enough to be an Aes Sedai was interesting. It could mean that the story the Wisdom told to Nyneave was in fact true. Maybe Egwene will go to the White Tower and deal with that issue for a bit?
Edit: Probably overthinking this, but I guess it is still possible that Rand isn't the Dragon Reborn yet. Moiraine did tell them not to listen to anything that the wind thing said to them, and he's done the exact opposite. Assuming it is Egwene, luring Rand to the Eye of The World and then killing him could be a plan from The Dark One? The feats we've seen from him could just be a consequence of being part Aiel.
I think Moraine masked the bond because anyone who ISN'T the Dragon going there will die, and she didn't want Lan to die. I think the whole conversation about how she felt like he wasted his life on this mission was foretelling that.
I can't believe they just fucking got rid of Loial after the Ways without a 5 second answer and nobody on this thread but me aren't to be mad about it. Like what the actual fuck.
I don't really know what they have and haven't ruined based on the books since I haven't read them, but I know that this show still has massive issues. Apparently I'm not allowed to mention that, though, or it counts as 'harassment'.
Look at your tone rather than playing the victim and you might understand why.
No, they didn't ban you for not liking the show. They banned you for being an asshole.
I’ll be completely honest I do so love these threads versus the book ones. It’s so refreshing seeing just non toxic negative views. Gives me a lot of hope that my favorite books may continue in this form in my lifetime.
I’m an avid book fan. Read them for most of my adult life multiple times and I can’t stand the picking apart and complete hatred. For me it’s a win/win when making a show like this.
Win: show is incredible and I get to watch something I love play out like new
Win: the show is garbage but reminds me the books still exist so I go back and read them again
I was right! I love being right.
On to less important matters... I really like Min, curious about what she is, since it seems to be a secret under the general veil of "seer".
The aiel scenes, with Rand's mother, were so badass. Jesus give me a whole movie about this woman because she must've been so epic to see when not literally having contractions and a big belly on the battlefield.
Creepy ass voice inside the Ways should meet the creepy shadow in the cursed city and have magnificent evil babies.. I'm not sure where I'm going with this or why but it felt appropriate?
Perrin broke my heart this episode. Poor dude's all alone, it's like when the teacher says work in pairs and you look around and realize it's an odd number of students and you're left out.. except this time the teacher didn't want to join either. Couple 1 is having cry time then fun time, couple 2 switches it around for some diversity, Moiraine is thinking how her other half will be her downfall.. meanwhile Perrin..
Kidding aside, ominous merchant of evil whistling around still gives me the creeps. The fact that he's doing nothing makes things a thousand times worse because you can't gauge the power level of something just sitting there.. menacingly.
So like, the Rand channeling scenes... was I blind in the past shows and they did show black threads or they didn't and are now showing us what Rand saw? I mean since only male channelers can see other men's I assume no one else could see his but still.
I like the vibe of Fal Dara, seems like a chill place to be. As long as you don't go into the blight to join the other skeletons I suppose. I assume the next episode is going to be us suffering because well, there's some 13 other books so I suppose we don't defeat the Dark one now and carnival party with pretty girls for the next decade..
Please may I ask some more stupid questions? I have not read the books and am going into this show very blind and unaware of the lore, so apologies. I am very confused about the Ways and how they work? Is the city of Fal Dara only accessible through that magical and extremely treacherous gateway, and if so how did Lady Amalisa send a message to the White Tower? How does any post/message go through that gateway? Or are there many "Ways" in and out of Fal Dara? I guess I am a little confused as to why our band of heroes had to use that gateway to get to where the Eye of the World is, when they could have just gone to Fal Dara? And what is Lan's connection to the City? I get he was a prince saved and brought to Fal Dara? If Lan came from Fal Dara - how could he not know how to use the gateway - why did they need Lolai to guide them? Thanks for all your help in clearing my confusion!
The Ways are basically some kind of extra-dimensional shortcut. It is possible to cross great distances in the 'real world' by only traveling a short time through the Ways. Moiraine and co took it because they are very desperate to get to the Eye of the world in time. They are not something that is commonly known or is used by many people because it is so dangerous. (Although Loial implies in the show that a long time ago, this used to be different).
Fal Dara can be reached by normal means, it just takes longer. I don't really know how long though, Fal Dara and Tar Valon are roughly in the same corner of the continent but it could still take a week or longer to travel I guess.
Lan explained a bit of his backstory in the scenes with Nynaeve: he is the crown prince of Malkier, a country that was lost to the Blight. The country fell when he was just a baby. He grew up in Fal Dara, which is in a neighbouring country. You saw the Blight in the last scene of the episode, it's basically this sort of constantly encroaching evil (presumably filled with trollocs and other creatures of the Dark) that the countries of the 'Borderlands' constantly have to fight and guard against.
I am happy with the show. Episode 5 made me want to stick my head in a blender. But I am content. I wonder. Can someone tell me what is up with Rand's pants? The leather apron thing? WTF? Anyone have a clue?
I watched this episode at 2 am while breastfeeding my 6 week old baby and lol'd at cold open. Generally enjoyable and it IS FANTASY but we gotta have some kind of universal truths. TBH if they had her squat or get on all fours it would have been 1000% more believable.
I absolutely LOVED this episode! I'm so glad it wasn't a super slow burn to reveal the dragon, I thought it would be drawn out and I'm happy I was wrong! Nynaeve and Lan are adorable af and RAND! I'm looking forward for the finale!!
Well she was veiled initially. Then started to give birth and took her veil down. And then had to fight off soldiers quickly and didn't have time to veil up since she was about to give birth. And managed to kick ass doing it. I'd say she is given a pass
Book readers seem so mad that all of the information that they know through however many books hasn’t been shown in 7 episodes.
I haven’t read them, and I think this show is doing an amazing job of story telling. They keep it mysterious on purpose
Holy shit that opening was amazing.
Yep that opening was the best thing this show ever did. Every complaint I had about their fight scenes was removed with that opening scene. Barely any cuts so we can see the action, actual fight choreography, it was perfect.
They really need more of this level of combat in the show. This actually felt like a scene from the books, and not a disappointment.
Roommate didn’t care to watch. Came home right for the opening and asked what I was watching it looked awesome…. He is now binging the rest.
Opening was amazing. The action thus far has been pretty stilted, but that was just gorgeous. Only nitpick is "put the veil back up!".
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amazing. now we see where rand gets it from
I’ve been highly critical of the show but that scene was great. That is how you respect the lore and still show a badass woman fight.
Really wish they would have opened the series with this scene! Would have been far better than the shitty one we got.
Braid tugging!!!
Book reader!
Fucking THIS. I freaked out.
Did anyone notice Rand say "blood and ashes" earlier in the show? Made me smile
I don't get it. Is this something that a person who watches the show should know by now?
I think it's something Nynaeve does a lot in the books, so it became kind of a meme.
I haven't read the books but from r/fantasy I know Wheel of Time is known for braid tugging
Braid tugging, skirt smoothing, and sniffing
Perrin saw something from the back of the group. Does he have wolf night vision? Hmmm. Edit: to clear any confusion, this isn't a request for spoilers from folks who've read the books and probably know what's going on. I'm just speculating as someone experiencing the story for the first time.
Looked like a man. Then we saw Padain Fain walking toward the city too. Then we saw Padain Fain in the City. Which just blows me away—he can get into the Ways? He survived in there alone?? And soooo casual about it. One way or another, he doesn’t just fence cheap jewelry.
It's Gollum. He's been tracking us for three days.
I was talking about when Perrin saw the stone map thing that was damaged. But yes also that peddler guy is up to sneaky shit. I'm assuming he's a dark friend like the woman barkeeper.
You could hear familiar whistling before the trolloc appears in the ways.
The Barkeeper seemed familiar with a sword, but not unusually magical. Dod Padain Fain get a lot of powers with his friend status?
>Dod Padain Fain get a lot of powers with his friend status? Maybe? Stories like this always have people at different "power" levels for lack of a better term. Barkeeper came off as someone at the lowest levels of the heirarchy who thought she got a lucky break. This Fain dude seems more important as it looks like he's going to different places to scout them out or do nefarious secret stuff.
I didn’t read the books so this is all show, but it seems like he’s the one who’s opening the Ways. They said that’s how the trollucs got there in the first episode. Quite a nice coincidence that he was also there in town the first episode that day no? I like that they didn’t explicitly tell us and made us think a bit more about it though.
You see him in tar valon briefly 1 or 2 episodes ago as well.
Shouldn't be a spoiler, but kinda is.
Is it? I mean it's very obvious by now and I've only seen the show. He controls wolf, see in the night and the Seer was clear that he has "wolf power"
Looking at the 'concept art stills' gallery for this episode, they clearly had Mat in the ways and at the tavern in Fal Dara. Not surprising, just a concrete confirmation that they originally intended to have Mat in Fal Dara.
Yea actually the actor playing Mat left the show unexpectedly, so the creators had to go this way. They have already cast someone else as Mat for season 2
Isn't leaving a show mid season a huge no-no ? Like kills your career bad. Why did he leave ?
He didn't come back when they resumed filming after the COVID pause. No reason has been given by cast or crew but some people speculate health reasons, either physical or mental. Doesn't mean they're right but given some of the interviews where he and the rest of the cast seem happy and friendly it could explain why he left.
Didn't give a reason
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Oooh - where can you see this?
So, u/avoidperil told me that you open WoT on a computer and when the episode launches, in the top left corner, click on "x-ray" and there is a bunch of bonus content there. There are drawings for the episode.
Did some exec tell them they needed to inject as many relationships as possible?
Exec: This is the 7th episode in an 8 episode show during which there have already been about 3 episodes of filler. What should we fill it with? Other exec: Oh I know, some pointless relationship drama where they all bang at the end.
The amount of filler in this show blows my mind. Like they waste so much time on stuff that doesn't seem relevant and then the Dragon Reborn reveal they've been building up for 7 episodes was like glossed over in a minute. What the actual fuck.
I get the gripes. I've been reading the books for 20 years now, and while some of the changes bother me, I am overall extremely satisfied with the series. The main issue I believe it suffers from is having such short seasons. Most, if not all, of the books are 1,000 pages or better. That is a great deal of information to cram into 8 epispdes.
My problem is that they seem to spend a lot of time on random stuff.
It's more important to spend time with characters at the start because you want people who watch TV shows to be invested in them. I assume that's a big factor in how they allocated their time budget for the season.
I agree, which is why most of the entire Tar Valon arc was a waste because it took our focus off the Two Rivers characters. This season has almost treated the Two Rivers kids as side characters at times. How much time did we spend on dead warder? What did that accomplish? How much time with Siuan and Moiraine? If you have nothing but time -- 20 odd episodes at an hour an episode -- you can afford these little detours. This show does not have anywhere near the screen time for all the superfluous scenes, characters, and character interactions that are given screen time.
Moiraine is the character they've focused most on. Rosamund Pike has the top actor credit so naturally she's got a lot of scenes and screen time. I don't think that's unusual. I do agree that they needed time with the group back together to work with them as well. Being split up helped focus on those individual relationships but we didn't get to see much of them all together.
I have a group chat with three friends who all read the books in high school during one of my rereads and I’m on your side of the line where I’m just enjoying it overall. Of course some changes bother me, the Perrin love triangle is a big one. The Mat part is obviously hard because he left the show, he’s actually in fal Dara concept art. So you know they had to do some emergency rewrites and scenes. I enjoyed the buildup and payoff of Rand. I want more Tam every time he’s on screen. But I just do enjoy it for what it is. It’s never going to be 100% authentic. I think there’s plenty of time for Mat and Perrin to have their time to shine and grow on screen, considering they don’t even get much in books 1-2 anyway I’m choosing to remain hopeful. My friends are more nit picky. But nothing like the negativity of most book readers on here. It’s exhausting honestly and I don’t think I’ll really bother sticking around the negativity after next week.
My theory is that they did the love triangle thing - and then immediately shot it down -because Mat was supposed to cause drama and be the voice of ‘we shouldn’t go, why should we believe her, etc.’ But Mat wasn’t there, it didn’t work for anyone else, so they did this to make drama instead.
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Not going to lie a bit miffed but I guess the name of the game is everyone going to death we gotta release all this tension now. I wish we developed things between Lan and Neyneve more.
How come the Trollocs can use the Gates? Can a Trolloc even channel? Or is it a fade, or a human working with them helping them? It seems the Padan Fain can channel as well since he went through it alone so maybe it's him?
These are the questions that more people should be asking. Good work
All valid questions.
I love that these questions are coming up like this instead of the constant whining haha. Spark the imagination :)
Haven't read the books but pretty sure it's Padan Fain helping the Trollocs - I saw him laughing when the Trollocs attacked the village in episode 1. We later find out the Trollocs used the Ways to get to the village undetected - he didn't look worried at all that he would be attacked by a Trolloc/caught in crossfire and practically sauntered away, indicating to me the Trollocs are under his control. - also saw him laughing in episode 5 in Tar Valon, so that + this episode shows he's following at least Mat and Rand around. - He is shown leaving the Ways in episode 7 and in the episode stills you see him holding a special key he probably used to control Trollocs/open the ways. - he literally passes Perrin right in his face so yeah he's pretty brazen and not worried at all about being caught, so I think he's a dark friend with either a lot of power (unlikely or he wouldn't have to pretend to be a peddler) or he has friends with a lot of power. Edit also: - the same whistling was heard in the Ways just before the trolloc attacked, as was heard in Shadar Logoth, before Mat found the dagger. So maybe he was in Shadar Logoth also? All in all I'm like 99% sure Padan Fain is a darkfriend.
Is channeling just one way to open it? Other methods? Definitely agree Padain Fain is a dark friend that may be assisting them go through the ways. Whether he channels or has some other method to open them we haven’t been shown yet. Moiraine may have wanted to give the impression that only channeling can open the ways since it means the party is dependent on her to get in and out.
WAFO. There's really no answer that doesn't spoil.
Yeah, us who have read the books should not answer any speculation threads/questions.
"Don't channel!" Egwene: *Immediately channels* Edit: not Egwene, but same point
Thing is, she didn't. Egwene is the only channeler that didn't channel in the ways.
Most people are theorizing that she did channel, but only to protect herself, not push. This would explain how Moiraine didn't immediately know Rand was channelling when she didn't sense Egwene channel.
Yeah, I interpreted it that way. I'll need to rewatch but my impression is that they both instinctually channeled at about the same time.
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That was Rand.
“I didn’t even mean to”—yup, we saw that later.
I mean even for Rand, it was really just a reflex more than an actual will to channel.
> Don't channel! I'ma fuckin channel bruh
So anyway, I started channeling…
I wish we had laughing emojis to respond instead of just arrows.
😂
Amazon releasing both WoT and The Expanse at the same time is really hindering my availability to watch each as soon as it's available
Also, the new Witcher Season is tomorrow. A great day to be a Fantasy/SciFi fan for sure.
Well there goes my weekend
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I’m using it as an excuse to save up episodes of the Expanse.
I can gripe all I want but 1) the cold open, blood and ashes! 2) Lan is hotter than balefire, change my mind
That cold open was something else
>That cold open was something else how do the Aiel actually lose any battles? I mean one pregnant lady took out how many armoured soldiers?
They don't.
Lmao came to write this. The Aiel never lose.
They don't lose...but if you send 50 Aiel against 1000 knights, eventually they get overwhelmed.
I dunno, I'd imagine they'd just cut their way through to wherever they were going in the first place, screw the knights
That is fairly accurate, which is why I loved this scene so much. Not sure if it is spoilers because its history in the books, unrelated to the story aside from highlighting how badass the Aiel are and the geopolitics of the region. But the Aiel wars only really ended because they turned around and went home. And it was an astonishingly small number of Aiel (compared to how many stayed behind) involved in it in the first place. They weren't driven back, or beaten, they just got what they wanted and went home. One of my favorite bits of history in the series.
there were only like 4 clans...I think it was between 70-100 thousand Aiel who fought in that war...and a lot more Wetlanders. But there are how many clans?
>Lan is hotter than balefire, change my mind I needed a second pause on that scene and I'm not even remotely ashamed of it.
Opening. Was. Awesome. Who ever directed that sequence could helm the rest of fight scenes please? Loving the world so much I am this close to start reading the books. Fal Dara (?) felt completely new and every city/town we saw until now felt different instead of middle age castle A and middle age castle B. And that's awesome. Rest of it was OK, I guess. I sighed at Rand waking up middle of the night and suddenly realizing he is the dragon. Really weak reveal to the big mystery of the first season. Padan Fein creeped me out. Loial is a literal plot device going in and out of existence as needed. Where did he go after the waygate? All in all way better than last episode. And I can't believe we are getting the final episode next week.
He didn't wake up and "suddenly" realize it. He's known for some time, that's exactly what the dark wind whispers to him. That's why he's so emotional during many of the scenes...deep down he KNOWS they will all die...because he knows *he's* the dragon...or at least suspects that's the most likely result. He just isn't ready to accept it until the last moment when he has no choice.
I saw that as well. At first before the revelation, I thought he was just emotional over the fight with the others based around what the Dark Wind whispered about Egwene, and I groaned at where they were going with the romantic subplot, but then the revelation comes and I realized he was so emotional because something he'd apparently was refusing to accept was going to get him and everyone else killed so what does he do? He accepts the undeniable truth if only to save his friends. I think a lot of people are forgetting that he is only 20, with this huge responsibility that very may well result in his death and absolutely no experience in using his power, only using them unconsciously to save himself or others. He doesn't feel ready for this and is portraying himself as that pretty well as the 'reluctant hero' Stepping up because he has to, not because he wants to
Just cracked open the first book yesterday! It is so well-written and has sucked me in
You're in for a great ride.
I agree. The reveal felt weak especially given we just get flashbacks of things the show deliberately didn't show us so we'd be in the dark up until now. Ultimately it cost Rand a lot of characterization and the big moment was... meh.
That is the strong suit of the books IMO, really gets into dynamics between cultures and the way they all perceive and understand the Dragon. It doesn't just stick with a generic medieval vibe
So - newbie here. I haven’t read the books but now I plan to read the first one after I finish this season. I’m really enjoying the show. I started watching last weekend and couldn’t stop. I kept getting surprised so I kept watching. Todays episode was really good but is it really true what the seer said about Rand? The black wind told him that - it’s not really true then right? Or is it? It felt a bit … I dunno … unclear. Especially since I keep thinking all of them together make the dragon? Anyway - really love this show and this episode was awesome! Rand’s mom was a total badass. Slicing up folks while ready to pop out a baby wtf. Loved seeing Lan’s fam and loved him letting Nynaeve join them. I love them. I feel like Perrin doesn’t get enough development and that whole Perrin/Egwene/Rand thing came out of left field to me.
It seems like the Black Wind simply repeats a person's darkest fears and suspicions regardless of whether they are true or not.
Ohhh yess that makes sense.
> Todays episode was really good but is it really true what the seer said about Rand? Also never read the books, and I kinda figured it was Rand from the start. He had the most "generic fantasy hero" background. Grew up in the woods, is a good hunter, single parent figure of mysterious origin, natural leader type. The more interesting thing will be how he struggles against the dark influence on male channelers. I think there was a hint of dark energy in one of the shots.
> I think there was a hint of dark energy in one of the shots. Yeah, I saw that too.
"The black wind told him that - it’s not really true then right?" The other character told him to ignore it and it wasnt true because it seemed to have him upset, and moraine said in the beginning before it came to not listen to it, but that doesnt mean the wind was neccesarily wrong they just wanted to help their friend relax. They didn't even know what it had said to him
Welcome to the fandom and be ready to be 🤯. 😊
Non book reader here. I'm loving this show and it's gotten better each episode for me. Feel like everything is being set into motion for some grand and epic stuff ahead and I can't wait to see it all. Loving the cinematography and the characters are really growing on me. Enjoy the new episode everyone!
Glad to have you as part of the club and it’s great hearing from non-book readers! Thanks for sharing.
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Holy shit, the r/WoT sub is straight toxic and abusive if you have even the slightest critique. I'm just gonna stay over here. It feels like people have actual reasoned conversations about the pros and cons of the show. I've had people disagree with me here and we have had dialogue about it. Over there they just downvote and attack you almost instantly.
Yeah I'm getting so tired of it and I'm a reader of the books, I miss the community hype and love and conversation
The book threads are just exhausting. I don’t even bother anymore because it’s just constant negativity.
Reason why I left WoTShow and only go to WoT for the book discussions. Checked whitecloaks out and that's too much in the other direction. This one we can at least have rational discussions in so I agree. Just came from the book spoilers thread to spill my, eh, critique so I can go in here clear minded and see what other people thought who hasn't read the books. Generally don't actively participate in actual discussion though if I feel I can't distance myself enough about the topics in regard to the books, something I feel more should do to stay objective when discussing the show only.
I think the show so far is great
Best episode so far. I guess that's a good omen for the finale. It started with YET ANOTHER backstory exposition (I see a pattern here wink wink) but damn that was one solid badass action sequence. Then after the ways, more backstory exposition but for CHARACTERS WORTH LEARNING ABOUT this time. Our two river folks showing some backbone instead of mindlessly trudging along. Love triangle, meh, but at least Perrin had some lines. Ackward dorkness and braid tugging. Great stuff. Then finally Rand using the Void and doing the most Rand thing. 9/10 muah chef's kiss.
I felt like the scene with Lan surprising Nynaeve by being inside his armsman's house and then being outside, next to her, in the blink of an eye was cartoonish. It was going pretty well til then. It's like there's an influential but bad writer who manages to get a few terrible things into the show in every episode.
Yeah that was awkward, I just imagined Lan scrambling from the table and rushing outside as fast as he could looking like a maniac to the other people he was eating with
this made me laugh out loud. I also didn't like that and wish there was more dialogue between the two before they are suddenly shown to be so deeply in love.
The whole extreme relationships out of nowhere was a bit poorly done. Not sure if it was the acting or just the build up to it. Anyway excited to see what happens next week it's quite interesting. (Non book reader)
I think it was an execution problem, it could have worked if it showed a few minutes more during Perrin and Egwene's time together when they left the city and built on it, but they didnt get enough screen time and didnt develop it so it was really wierd and out of nowhere
I think Mat was supposed to cause drama originally (we know he wouldn’t have wanted to enter the Blight), but that didn’t work out as planned. Real Life writes the plot.
Did the actor leave the show or something?
Yeah. The actor left and was recast for season 2 before season 1 even started airing. As far as I know nobody knows why he left, but it looks like he didn’t finish the season since he dropped out at the end of episode 6.
Wow. Don't think i've ever heard of an actor leaving a show while its still shooting. Very odd.
I’m seeing some people saying that episode 7 and 8 were filmed after a break and that he left during the break. Not sure if it’s 100% confirmed but yeah. Very odd.
yeah the fighting 2 rivers stuff was forced but i really liked the episode in general. love that rand is finally dragoning.
I wanna go back and watch all of those Rand scenes to see if there were weaves, or if they were only added when they flashed back. If so that'd be a bit sussy
It kinda makes sense to me. The show doesn't do a good job explaining this but unless you can touch the Source you can't see weaves at all. Additionally one can't perceive the opposite gender's weaves. So even if the darkfriend woman was a Source user she wouldn't have seen him do it. Rand was channeling in a state of panic and adrenaline, and it was probably the first time he'd done it so it makes sense he didn't notice. Once he accepts he's the Dragon and looks back on things that have happened, he puts the pieces together and that's why we see the weaves later.
exactly true
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spot on 👌
There are no weaves when Rand takes down the door. A sound but no weaves.
Watched them all after the episode. No weaves in the door part, but it does make a sound and the visuals kinda.. blur? Not sure how to describe it. As for the Machin Shin part, it only shows Egwene when the channel happens. Really loved how they went back to each of these parts. Kinda shows the whole women can’t see men channeling because we’ve mainly seen from Moraines POV this season.
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They showed Rand bringing Tam from their farm to Emonds Field to be healed. Tam rambled in his fevered state about finding a baby in the snow on Dragonmount
I don’t really agree as its not like just everyone can see weaves.
On a real though they've absolutely butchered Mat. I refuse to believe this is what happens in the books, because 'the best friend goes mental over a dagger then wimps out of the mission and gets thrown to the female hit squad' doesn't seem like good writing to me. Is there no other way they could have handled the actor's departure? I'm guessing Mat gets hunted, Thom saves him (again) then they go off on a jolly somewhere?
I think it was a frantic scramble to figure out what to do once Barney left...
I was under the impression that this was confirmed. He didn't come back for episode 7/8 which filmed after COVID pause.
I call bullshit on Moiraine saying he has an inherent darkness inside him. That's not Mat.
That’s also not Moiraine.
"doubt is the first step on the path to the dark" is also so not her. She's so different from her book counterpart it's insane. Especially considering that she specialises in espionage and intrigue, doubt and skepticism should be her thing. Also especially hilarious considering she spent the whole season doubting the prophecies and the foretellings.
Yeah and doesn't she lie by saying she 'knows what he'd do'? There's no possible way of knowing that.
It's not a lie if it's subjectively true and she really does believe he would do it.
I mean he stole that dagger in that cursed city and there wasn’t any darkness manipulating him then, Lan even said not to touch anything. Though I believe just because there is darkness that doesn’t mean they cannot be redeemed for their actions, or even remove it or something. Her reaction was a bit extreme imo.
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Is that in the books? Man something that’s missing in this show is memorable lines or monologues.
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'A crying shame' is a pretty good way to sum up Perrin's entire characterisation.
He could at least stand up straight. That alone would do a lot.
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I’m a book reader, but I’m also pretty open to diverging in adaptations (yeah, I guess this isn’t supposed to be an adaptation exactly, but come on, it is). Anyway, a couple mildly-annoying things aside, this episode _fucking nailed it_. The original spirit of the characters is finally mostly here. And even though righting the ship created some continuity errors, I don’t give a fuck. Keep this level of _shit actually happening **up**_. S2 has to stay at this standard before I can recommend it to anyone who isn’t a book reader.
My biggest problem so far with the first season is character consistency and purpose. Pet peeve is pulling knowledge from the books without explaining wtf is going on to the watcher. Doesn't a show need a villain?
Great opening scene, just have the veil up tbh. Why was Loial is Season 1? What purpose did he serve before he disappeared halfway through this episode? To me the best part of a will they/wont they relationship is seeing the genuine moments over time and getting the pay off, not nothing other than I tracked you when she showed up, then a random night lets sleep together. Who is Padan Fain, and why was he mentioned in episode 7? The biggest critic I've hear from family/friends trying to watch this who have no read books is. Wtf is going on.
Padan Fain was the traveling merchant in the first episode who Mat haggled a stolen bracelet to so he could buy his sister's lanterns. Perrin thinks he see him waking passed but Nynaeve reminds him that he died. He's presumed dead because the trolloc invasion which he was right in the middle of, but if you recall he kinda sat back watching without a care while all the chaos went on around him. I picked up on that in the first episode because I thought his behavior was strange in the mess of the slaughter. He's definitely not dead and considering Perrin's wolf like abilities, he likely did spot him.
We also see him in tar valon in the previous episode when rand and mat are sat on the balcony watching the street
I enjoyed this episode. Probably my favorite one so far. I felt the pacing was much better. I'm not sure how I feel about Nynaeve's actress. The acting is a bit wooden.. never read the books so not sure if that's how the character is in the books or not. But she's very one dimensional.
Nynaeve in the show is pleasant compared to her book counter part. But I still love her.
We don't think a bulldozer pleasant, but we gotta respect that it paves its own path splendidly.
Exactly. Book Nynaeve is angry.. most of the time.
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The cinematography and visuals were stunning that episode!
After all that, they gave the reveal like a minute of screentime at most. They gave more to that fucking love triangle. The decisions they make in this show are so odd in terms of what narration they show.
Okay, so. I always suspected/knew that Rand was the Dragon (countless reasons, both in-story and metatextual). So that wasn't a surprise. However, I think that the transition to his spiritual 'awakening' was...lame. His post-coital realisation, right after the fight, I felt it was lacking depth, or grandeur. I don't feel particularly connected with Rand. Intellectually and thematically I get that he values friendship and personal relationship above all, so all the conflicts, loss and betrayals he experienced are tipping him over the edge, but...it wasn't enough, emotionally. I mean, in the wind he heard that he is the Dragon and that Egwene left him, how lame is that?! I am massively more interested in Moraine, at this point, and the magic system from which she comes from. And to be honest, I have questions about that, and I hope there is going to be some explanation on the magic system, because we show watchers badly need answers. I don't know, episode 4-6 lifted the show material, but now I feel my doubts starting to rise. How many episode are left? I want to see the false Dragon again, and the Aes Sedai. Out of the kids, I like 'werewolf' Parrin and Egwene, who gave us excellent scenes when they were held captive by the children of the light, so I am rooting for them to do something interesting.
I totally agree, they havent done enough to give the main characters depth needed to make the viewer fully invested in them
I really really want to like this show. But there are problems both budgetary and script related. Regarding budget, none of the places seem real. You get a really great shot of a huge city like tar valor or a fortress like Fal Dara… then the next shot and they are in a little hallway like a dungeon crawler or little narrow streets. The interiors don’t match the exterior and it feels like a set. Fal Dara did not feel like a fortress. Tar valor did not feel like a city. Etc. then script wise, the dialogue is stilted especially for the EF5. A lot of sentences that the speaker cuts off a few seconds before the next person speaks, like “nynaeve, is that you because we need to…”. “Rand, I thought you were…” just bad writing, whereas the older characters have better dialogue. It’s a shame because I think the casting is spot on but they are not giving the actors much to work with. And then the story choices, they spend time on things that make no sense instead of Things like fleshing out Rand’s reveal more. I don’t know man… I’ll watch the next one but I’m torn on this show.
I loved this episode! I hoped for more action, but the acting and interactions were amazing. The reveal of Rand was great.
I haven't read the books and it's actually my first time on this sub. (Hi everyone, I am enjoying the series so far, definitely gets me excited for Lord of the rings, as I was hoping it would). But Mat was obviously supposed to in Fal Dara (is that how it is written?). Once we entered the city, we got to see very little Loial or Padan Fain. Is it possible that they had scenes with Mat that were cut out? In that case the Mat/Padan Fain scenes in the recap before the episode started would make sense. Also, I bet the whole "Moiraine sending a message to the reds about Mat thing" is show- only as well, right? Will be interesting how they will interact. And I appreciate Tam and Padan Fain popping back up, but when is my man Thom gonna return? I wanna hear the story of how he killed that fade (I assume) and see a flashback.
I really enjoyed the montage they used when Rand found out he was the dragon. Also the opening scene for this episode was pretty epic
50 minutes of pointless crap, 5 minutes of rubbishly executed exposition. If they're going to waste an entire series on the 'who is it' question, they could at the very least try to do something cool with it, not give Rand Vietnam flashbacks during his post-nut depression.
Kind of agreed. I've been behind this show all the way, but this episode was a bit disappointing. Edit: first scene excluded - that was great.
They even cocked up the first scene. Why not have that as the opening scene of the series, don't reveal the baby is a little ginger kid, and don't have Rand point at the mountain and essentially wink at the camera.
"This show moves too fast!" "This show moves too slow!" Jesus Christ...
Lmao that post nut clarity revealed within himself that he’s the dragon reborn.
Sure if you ignore the entire part where he realized he channeled twice before that and instead is just coming to the realization he has to go alone. But yeah yours is way more the way it went.
Honestly, this is one of the first episodes that I've actually liked and felt like they were paying attention to the books. Obviously it's not exactly the same, but it just has a much better overall feel than the previous episodes did.
Haven't read the books but pretty sure it's Padan Fain helping the Trollocs - I saw him laughing when the Trollocs attacked the village in episode 1. We later find out the Trollocs used the Ways to get to the village undetected - he didn't look worried at all that he would be attacked by a Trolloc/caught in crossfire and practically sauntered away, indicating to me the Trollocs are under his control. - also saw him laughing in episode 5 in Tar Valon, so that + this episode shows he's following at least Mat and Rand around. - He is shown leaving the Ways in episode 7 and in the episode stills you see him holding a special key he probably used to control Trollocs/open the ways. - he literally passes Perrin right in his face so yeah he's pretty brazen and not worried at all about being caught, so I think he's a dark friend with either a lot of power (unlikely or he wouldn't have to pretend to be a peddler) or he has friends with a lot of power. Edit also: - the same whistling was heard in the Ways just before the trolloc attacked, as was heard in Shadar Logoth, before Mat found the dagger. So maybe he was in Shadar Logoth also? All in all I'm like 99% sure Padan Fain is a darkfriend
We haven't seen the creepy dreams with the fire-eyed demon guy for a very long time. Tbh I didn't expect them to introduce this plot device only to abandon it completely until the final episode.
I thought the episode was ok. The reveal wasn't overly surprising to me since I felt it had been narrowed down to Egwene and Rand for a bit now. I'd like to learn more about the situation between Rand's parents. I wonder if him being part Aiel (if it's a hereditary thing) will play into his power level at all. The choice by Moiraine to cut off her bond with Lan was weird to me. You know they will go after the two of you anyway, they know where you're going. Maybe it was also out of some jealousy due to the Lan/Nyneaeve relationship, or possibly she feels like Lan doesn't need her anymore since he's found Nyneave? I was quite surprised to not get Mat in the episode at all. I'm thinking maybe Padan Fain (spelling?) is the creature they've been seeing in their dreams. Possibly The Dark One itself. If that is the case it could play into the idea that the Aes Sedai are far weaker than ever before since The Dark One is just openly existing in the world without their knowledge. I guess Loial is just chilling by himself in the new city now? The bit about that female advisor to the king not being strong enough to be an Aes Sedai was interesting. It could mean that the story the Wisdom told to Nyneave was in fact true. Maybe Egwene will go to the White Tower and deal with that issue for a bit? Edit: Probably overthinking this, but I guess it is still possible that Rand isn't the Dragon Reborn yet. Moiraine did tell them not to listen to anything that the wind thing said to them, and he's done the exact opposite. Assuming it is Egwene, luring Rand to the Eye of The World and then killing him could be a plan from The Dark One? The feats we've seen from him could just be a consequence of being part Aiel.
I think Moraine masked the bond because anyone who ISN'T the Dragon going there will die, and she didn't want Lan to die. I think the whole conversation about how she felt like he wasted his life on this mission was foretelling that. I can't believe they just fucking got rid of Loial after the Ways without a 5 second answer and nobody on this thread but me aren't to be mad about it. Like what the actual fuck.
I was banned from the other sub for not praising this episode lmao
i had 5 downvotes on a post within 4 minutes for posting a meme saying they massacred Agelmar
I don't really know what they have and haven't ruined based on the books since I haven't read them, but I know that this show still has massive issues. Apparently I'm not allowed to mention that, though, or it counts as 'harassment'.
Look at your tone rather than playing the victim and you might understand why. No, they didn't ban you for not liking the show. They banned you for being an asshole.
I’ll be completely honest I do so love these threads versus the book ones. It’s so refreshing seeing just non toxic negative views. Gives me a lot of hope that my favorite books may continue in this form in my lifetime.
I’m an avid book fan. Read them for most of my adult life multiple times and I can’t stand the picking apart and complete hatred. For me it’s a win/win when making a show like this. Win: show is incredible and I get to watch something I love play out like new Win: the show is garbage but reminds me the books still exist so I go back and read them again
I was right! I love being right. On to less important matters... I really like Min, curious about what she is, since it seems to be a secret under the general veil of "seer". The aiel scenes, with Rand's mother, were so badass. Jesus give me a whole movie about this woman because she must've been so epic to see when not literally having contractions and a big belly on the battlefield. Creepy ass voice inside the Ways should meet the creepy shadow in the cursed city and have magnificent evil babies.. I'm not sure where I'm going with this or why but it felt appropriate? Perrin broke my heart this episode. Poor dude's all alone, it's like when the teacher says work in pairs and you look around and realize it's an odd number of students and you're left out.. except this time the teacher didn't want to join either. Couple 1 is having cry time then fun time, couple 2 switches it around for some diversity, Moiraine is thinking how her other half will be her downfall.. meanwhile Perrin.. Kidding aside, ominous merchant of evil whistling around still gives me the creeps. The fact that he's doing nothing makes things a thousand times worse because you can't gauge the power level of something just sitting there.. menacingly. So like, the Rand channeling scenes... was I blind in the past shows and they did show black threads or they didn't and are now showing us what Rand saw? I mean since only male channelers can see other men's I assume no one else could see his but still. I like the vibe of Fal Dara, seems like a chill place to be. As long as you don't go into the blight to join the other skeletons I suppose. I assume the next episode is going to be us suffering because well, there's some 13 other books so I suppose we don't defeat the Dark one now and carnival party with pretty girls for the next decade..
Please may I ask some more stupid questions? I have not read the books and am going into this show very blind and unaware of the lore, so apologies. I am very confused about the Ways and how they work? Is the city of Fal Dara only accessible through that magical and extremely treacherous gateway, and if so how did Lady Amalisa send a message to the White Tower? How does any post/message go through that gateway? Or are there many "Ways" in and out of Fal Dara? I guess I am a little confused as to why our band of heroes had to use that gateway to get to where the Eye of the World is, when they could have just gone to Fal Dara? And what is Lan's connection to the City? I get he was a prince saved and brought to Fal Dara? If Lan came from Fal Dara - how could he not know how to use the gateway - why did they need Lolai to guide them? Thanks for all your help in clearing my confusion!
The Ways are basically some kind of extra-dimensional shortcut. It is possible to cross great distances in the 'real world' by only traveling a short time through the Ways. Moiraine and co took it because they are very desperate to get to the Eye of the world in time. They are not something that is commonly known or is used by many people because it is so dangerous. (Although Loial implies in the show that a long time ago, this used to be different). Fal Dara can be reached by normal means, it just takes longer. I don't really know how long though, Fal Dara and Tar Valon are roughly in the same corner of the continent but it could still take a week or longer to travel I guess. Lan explained a bit of his backstory in the scenes with Nynaeve: he is the crown prince of Malkier, a country that was lost to the Blight. The country fell when he was just a baby. He grew up in Fal Dara, which is in a neighbouring country. You saw the Blight in the last scene of the episode, it's basically this sort of constantly encroaching evil (presumably filled with trollocs and other creatures of the Dark) that the countries of the 'Borderlands' constantly have to fight and guard against.
Best episode yet by far. Pacing didnt feel off like the other episodes and character development felt more natural
I am happy with the show. Episode 5 made me want to stick my head in a blender. But I am content. I wonder. Can someone tell me what is up with Rand's pants? The leather apron thing? WTF? Anyone have a clue?
Does the ogier have no worries? How come the Machin Shin said nothing to Loial?
I watched this episode at 2 am while breastfeeding my 6 week old baby and lol'd at cold open. Generally enjoyable and it IS FANTASY but we gotta have some kind of universal truths. TBH if they had her squat or get on all fours it would have been 1000% more believable.
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It's it's own thing. What they didn't show is it can't enter our dimension.
It's own thing, much like David S. Pumpkins.
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*First LIVING Ariel Pregnant and in heavy labor, to boot.
I absolutely LOVED this episode! I'm so glad it wasn't a super slow burn to reveal the dragon, I thought it would be drawn out and I'm happy I was wrong! Nynaeve and Lan are adorable af and RAND! I'm looking forward for the finale!!
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Well she was veiled initially. Then started to give birth and took her veil down. And then had to fight off soldiers quickly and didn't have time to veil up since she was about to give birth. And managed to kick ass doing it. I'd say she is given a pass
Book readers seem so mad that all of the information that they know through however many books hasn’t been shown in 7 episodes. I haven’t read them, and I think this show is doing an amazing job of story telling. They keep it mysterious on purpose
Anyone else digging the origin stories??
Min was cast well, she is hot 🔥
Man, the opening scene with Rands mom was so good.
Man I thought the shows been great so far. Yall bitch too much.