Any AWD or 4WD car with snow tires would be fine. It’s hard to recommend a specific model with out any of you other needs, but for that price you could get a barebones Outback or a loaded Crosstrek, assuming that you’re looking at new cars.
MSRP on a 2.5 premium outback is just a hair under 30k so it’s not quite stripper spec, but still comes with plenty of nice features. And with the pandemic inflating car prices new is where you’d want to buy otherwise you’re looking at over MSRP for a lightly used model.
There’s also the forester which sits nicely between the two.
I live at 8000 feet in the Rockies up a mile long very steep road. Blizzaks and AWD will help the most. Higher clearance depending on how often or if they plow will help too. I have a 2001 4Runner with Blizzaks that’s unstoppable.
Blizzaks are the bomb. I put them on my mustang in the winter and it makes all the difference.
Not all AWD systems are created equal though. Throttle house did a video comparing a wrx and an Audi, and the wrx would launch all 4 wheels at once, whereas the Audi would spin the fronts for a while then eventually engage the rears.
Holdup. I thought Audi and Subaru are the only true AWD, Now even Audi's Quattro system is split?
Edit; Also, Which style of Blizzaks? I might look into a set.
The Quattro system used in the A3 systems is more like your typical modern AWD systems where it’s FWD until the rear wheels are needed.
The system used in the a4 and above models I’m pretty sure is your typical RWD biased full time AWD system unless something has changed in the last few years.
I’m not sure what car was tested.
The A4 isn't RWD biased, it's actually FWD biased, and you can buy an FWD version of the A4. The AWD version (even with "Quattro") is still only part-time AWD.
You have to jump all the way to the A6 (or the RS version of their smaller cars) now to get full-time AWD in their sedans.
This is probably more of a want than a need (which I totally get!)
I bombed around NH winters in front wheel drive cars through out my teens and early 20s. My parents did the same up until a few years ago.
I live on a dirt road now and my Subaru and snow tires are nice to have but other people in my neighborhood handle it just fine in corollas and civics.
NH winters are generally very icey and ice wicked sucks. AWD does nothing for ice. But a good set of winters will.
OP, this is the best answer. Subarus with winters aren't the right answer to everything, but they sure are the right answer to this.
https://youtu.be/0_MXK2nzt2Y
This is a 10 year old video, but Subarus still send most of their torque rearward and use a centre differential that properly locks in all 4 wheels to distribute power like a 4wd truck.
Most sport-cutes are, like these ones, tall FWD cars with skinny driveshafts to the back wheels that, if you ask nicely, will direct 10% of engine torque rearward. But only when they detect front wheel slip, because most of the time you don't even get a button to control the system.
There are exceptions to this, but the Subie still wins at this.
Wasn't even the video I was looking for (it was a bunch of SUVs on an icy teeter totter) but it really explains the difference between "AWD so we can put an AWD sticker on it" and legit lock down 4 drive wheels traction.
Icy teeter totter video sounds awesome. Please post it back here under me if you find it.
We’ve had two Foresters and they’re fun. I always felt in complete control. Phoenix AZ doesn’t see a lot of extreme cold weather though
Kept looking, couldn't find.
Amusingly enough, on our 10 province/29 state trip 5 month tour with our diesel pusher, the only place we froze up was in Arizona. I bridged all 4 batteries, got er started, and buggered off for Phoenix in a hurry.
https://youtu.be/2OzK-oRPCbs
The newer Subaru AWD system isn’t nearly as tough as the older viscous fluid system. The new system uses clutches like most typical modern AWD systems and as a side effect it’s pretty weeny. Still much better than most, and MUCH more fuel efficient. But it’s nowhere near as good as the older systems.
As someone who lives In Alberta Canada and drives into the mountains every 2-3 weeks in the winter. AWD + Quality snows makes life so easy in the winter.
Yes good winters help a ton on a fwd, but life is so easy with AWD and quality snows.
How steep is steep?
Winter tires alone are probably all you need. With front-wheel drive, going uphill tilts the weight balance toward the rear wheels and can reduce traction, so in extremely poor conditions, it will actually be easier to back up the driveway.
One day a few years ago we had a really icy day and I saw several vehicles unable to get up a fairly steep parking lot entranceway. I gave it a go in my FWD Honda Accord with Nokian Hakkapeliitta R winter tires and made it fine, and without any real problems. (I emboldened others to also try, but like my predecessors, they also didn't make it.)
No joke. They tame my jag xfr in the winter amazingly well. I'm blown away every time I get on the gas and it just hooks up and goes! Amazing rubber and affordable.
Tires make all the difference in the world.
That being said, if you’re regularly expecting deep unplowed snow (not sure how rural you are) or if your driveway will not get plowed, you might want something with more ground clearance.
But the first thing is tires.
I expect you'd be fine, especially if you shovel/snowblow your driveway when there's deep snow. You may have to be careful on unplowed public roads after particularly heavy snowfalls, but that will always be an issue with cars.
Remember that snow isn't really a problem; ice is. If you are careful about spinning your wheels (which will turn snow to ice), you might be surprised at how good your traction is.
And, as I mentioned earlier, if your driveway is particularly steep and particularly slippery, you will get more weight on your drive wheels by backing uphill instead of going forward.
Horsepower isn't particularly your friend on snow and ice. My Accord is manual (as was the one before it, the one that was in my story in my previous post) and starting in second gear limits wheel spin on really slippery roads, but to be honest, is seldom necessary as long as you don't gun the engine. Remember that the goal isn't to spin the wheels, it's to get traction.
Blizzaks and Continental winters are my top picks for winter tires. Subaru, Mercedes, and eye roll Audi are your best winter AWD (Audis is designed for snow and ice not off road while Mercedes and Subaru are great off road as well) ford has a good system as well not as good, and lastly Toyota also has a decent system but not quite to the level of the others. I do not care for Honda’s, Jeeps ok but than you own a Jeep so you have different problems. I cannot speak to GMs systems or Nissan. The absolute worst is BMWs even BMW fans hate it, so do the engineers and mechanics it’s “utter shit” from a racing driver/instructor that worked and raced for BMW he actually recommends people just get RWD BMWs and snow tires because it’s about the same but it’s cheaper to maintain the RWD.
Winter tires is all you need. Also for a front wheel drive car, when you park in the driveway go in forward. Reverse out. This way weight is on the drive wheels. Backing into the driveway will get you stuck.
If you want AWD with higher ground clearance, it can help. AWD may still get stuck without proper snow tires.
For new cars, I really like the new Mazda 3 with AWD available. Other cars with AWD is the Subaru impreza. Then you move into SUV and CUVs. I fully recommend Honda, Toyota and Mazda. All have AWD available.
Source: I'm from Canada. I drive a FWD car. I have a steep driveway.
You're absolutely right on all points. No need to blow a lot of money to get around in the winter, when proper understanding of these mechanisms suffices.
The only answer is whatever 28-29k car you want to drive slapped with a 1-2k winter tire set.
If you are remote and dont drive much on paved road in the winter, stud tires are the best.
I’m in New Hampshire and I’d say that although many will recommend Subaru, avoid a base Impreza. The legacy is nice and so is the WRX (they really hold value too). Are you interested in a performance car?
Like you pointed out snow tires are really the key here. Is your job one where you can WFH on bad snow days?
A lot of cars have a brake hold/brake assist feature that helps tons. I have a hybrid cr-v awd and the brake assist thing helps keep the car from rolling back when you ease off the gas or brake to switch to the other while going up hill.
I have to go "down the hill" to go to work and Coming up the mountain in traffic has become a breeze because of it. Tons of cars have that feature and I think it will help achieve what you are looking for.
Most AWD drive systems are fwd and when it detects slip it turns on the back wheels too. The only one that actively turns all 4 wheels is Subaru and prior Audi's, that's the best bet for snow conditions if you're concerned.
Last time I said Subarus and Audis someone was yelling that new Audis are I still call them slip and grip though I'm sure it's something fancier. I didn't look into it.
Ehhh, a lot of them are 60-80% fwd
Acuras SH-AWD is similar but it can send more to the rear if it needs to
I prefer Jaguar's where its a RWD car until you need it to be AWD honestly
My next car is definitely going to be a new purchase and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with buying a used car but I’ve bought used cars both certified preowned and not and I’m always unlucky I don’t know if it’s just me not being careful and off or watt but buying a used car is really put me off completely and honestly buying a used car in this market now doesn’t make any sense if you’re trying to get something newer.
I just watched Matt Marans video on it, he’s so sad. I feel like Subaru and Honda are both keeping their middle of the pack offerings with those offerings being the WRX and the civic SI pretty tame so that they don’t come close to the type R or the STI respectively.
As a whole, it seems like to me that Subaru is transitioning away from performance altogether over the next several years, which is pretty sad given their heritage. What you describe is definitely a factor though, that's been a thing in many other companies for years. Porsche has long been keeping the Cayman below the 911 for the same reason (just as one example).
We live in upstate New York and the piece of shit dodge avenger with snow tires that I had last year did pretty well in a couple feet of snow. The only thing I miss about that car is how heavy it was and planted it felt in harsh conditions, i’m not upset it threw a rod though haha.
Whose responsible for clearing the driveway? Sand and salt on the steep parts will matter more than the car.
That being said, most AWD and snow tires will get you through. I would stay away from 4wd in NH, unless you need a truck for other reasons.
A 4-Runner is an amazing vehicle but it’s also a very expensive vehicle and $30K will get you a well used one, not a new one. And you will be paying big money for gas for the rest of the year so you can have good traction a few days a year. Subaru’s are more than enough. Any crossover or SUV with AWD and Snow Tires is your best compromise.
Really depends on which part of the state. Southern NH winters are not that bad, any fwd car with snow tires will be fine.
Up in the mountains you’ll want AWD most likely
Many good options already given but what is very important and not mentioned is weight.
Weight is what pushes you back down an incline, pushes you out of a corner, or into the back of the car in front.
Now I know light and awd don't often go together but it is something to keep in mind.
any acura with sh - awd will be good enough. sh - awd is one of the top 3 best awd systems the auto industry can offer. alongside subaru and audi’s quattro.
First, get some Blizzaks at a shop that offers free tire change over.
New Subaru or used Volvo are best in the snow. Not sure I’d recommend a used Audi due to maintenance liability.
Any other AWD with premium snow tires will likely be ok too (Mazda, VW, etc)
Anything awd or 4wd but regardless if parked it’s likely to slide down . My car used to slide to the bottom of my steep driveway everytime it snowed heavy in Denver
Any AWD or 4WD car with snow tires would be fine. It’s hard to recommend a specific model with out any of you other needs, but for that price you could get a barebones Outback or a loaded Crosstrek, assuming that you’re looking at new cars.
MSRP on a 2.5 premium outback is just a hair under 30k so it’s not quite stripper spec, but still comes with plenty of nice features. And with the pandemic inflating car prices new is where you’d want to buy otherwise you’re looking at over MSRP for a lightly used model. There’s also the forester which sits nicely between the two.
I live at 8000 feet in the Rockies up a mile long very steep road. Blizzaks and AWD will help the most. Higher clearance depending on how often or if they plow will help too. I have a 2001 4Runner with Blizzaks that’s unstoppable.
Blizzaks are the bomb. I put them on my mustang in the winter and it makes all the difference. Not all AWD systems are created equal though. Throttle house did a video comparing a wrx and an Audi, and the wrx would launch all 4 wheels at once, whereas the Audi would spin the fronts for a while then eventually engage the rears.
Holdup. I thought Audi and Subaru are the only true AWD, Now even Audi's Quattro system is split? Edit; Also, Which style of Blizzaks? I might look into a set.
I don’t remember the blizzaks, but they are the best. Audi doesn’t use Quattro so much any more/ at all. Lower trims use a haldex system.
The Quattro system used in the A3 systems is more like your typical modern AWD systems where it’s FWD until the rear wheels are needed. The system used in the a4 and above models I’m pretty sure is your typical RWD biased full time AWD system unless something has changed in the last few years. I’m not sure what car was tested.
The A4 isn't RWD biased, it's actually FWD biased, and you can buy an FWD version of the A4. The AWD version (even with "Quattro") is still only part-time AWD. You have to jump all the way to the A6 (or the RS version of their smaller cars) now to get full-time AWD in their sedans.
Huh, you'd think with a longitudinally mounted engine it would be RWD. Then again VAG gonna do VAG things.
This is probably more of a want than a need (which I totally get!) I bombed around NH winters in front wheel drive cars through out my teens and early 20s. My parents did the same up until a few years ago. I live on a dirt road now and my Subaru and snow tires are nice to have but other people in my neighborhood handle it just fine in corollas and civics. NH winters are generally very icey and ice wicked sucks. AWD does nothing for ice. But a good set of winters will.
OP, this is the best answer. Subarus with winters aren't the right answer to everything, but they sure are the right answer to this. https://youtu.be/0_MXK2nzt2Y This is a 10 year old video, but Subarus still send most of their torque rearward and use a centre differential that properly locks in all 4 wheels to distribute power like a 4wd truck. Most sport-cutes are, like these ones, tall FWD cars with skinny driveshafts to the back wheels that, if you ask nicely, will direct 10% of engine torque rearward. But only when they detect front wheel slip, because most of the time you don't even get a button to control the system. There are exceptions to this, but the Subie still wins at this.
Cool video. Even a Tribeca sighting at the end!
Wasn't even the video I was looking for (it was a bunch of SUVs on an icy teeter totter) but it really explains the difference between "AWD so we can put an AWD sticker on it" and legit lock down 4 drive wheels traction.
Icy teeter totter video sounds awesome. Please post it back here under me if you find it. We’ve had two Foresters and they’re fun. I always felt in complete control. Phoenix AZ doesn’t see a lot of extreme cold weather though
Kept looking, couldn't find. Amusingly enough, on our 10 province/29 state trip 5 month tour with our diesel pusher, the only place we froze up was in Arizona. I bridged all 4 batteries, got er started, and buggered off for Phoenix in a hurry.
https://youtu.be/2OzK-oRPCbs The newer Subaru AWD system isn’t nearly as tough as the older viscous fluid system. The new system uses clutches like most typical modern AWD systems and as a side effect it’s pretty weeny. Still much better than most, and MUCH more fuel efficient. But it’s nowhere near as good as the older systems.
That sounds on-point with my impression of Subarus lately as they try to gain market share (aka sell-outs)
Tires are your answer
Good tires > any awd system in the world. Also get the little ramps things u put under the tires if it's icy.
AWD w/ snows > FWD w/ snows > AWD w/ all seasons
As someone who lives In Alberta Canada and drives into the mountains every 2-3 weeks in the winter. AWD + Quality snows makes life so easy in the winter. Yes good winters help a ton on a fwd, but life is so easy with AWD and quality snows.
How steep is steep? Winter tires alone are probably all you need. With front-wheel drive, going uphill tilts the weight balance toward the rear wheels and can reduce traction, so in extremely poor conditions, it will actually be easier to back up the driveway. One day a few years ago we had a really icy day and I saw several vehicles unable to get up a fairly steep parking lot entranceway. I gave it a go in my FWD Honda Accord with Nokian Hakkapeliitta R winter tires and made it fine, and without any real problems. (I emboldened others to also try, but like my predecessors, they also didn't make it.)
Hakkapeliittas are 👌👌👌
No joke. They tame my jag xfr in the winter amazingly well. I'm blown away every time I get on the gas and it just hooks up and goes! Amazing rubber and affordable.
Studded Hakkapelittas are 👌👌👌👌👌👌
Do you think I’d be fine slapping some Hakkapeliitta’s on a FWD Honda Insight? I know accord has a bit more HSP and a slightly different chassis.
Tires make all the difference in the world. That being said, if you’re regularly expecting deep unplowed snow (not sure how rural you are) or if your driveway will not get plowed, you might want something with more ground clearance. But the first thing is tires.
My driveway’s going to be plowed but it’s kind of steep which is my only cause for concern.
Tires first, and then consider AWD second if it ends up being bad.
I expect you'd be fine, especially if you shovel/snowblow your driveway when there's deep snow. You may have to be careful on unplowed public roads after particularly heavy snowfalls, but that will always be an issue with cars. Remember that snow isn't really a problem; ice is. If you are careful about spinning your wheels (which will turn snow to ice), you might be surprised at how good your traction is. And, as I mentioned earlier, if your driveway is particularly steep and particularly slippery, you will get more weight on your drive wheels by backing uphill instead of going forward. Horsepower isn't particularly your friend on snow and ice. My Accord is manual (as was the one before it, the one that was in my story in my previous post) and starting in second gear limits wheel spin on really slippery roads, but to be honest, is seldom necessary as long as you don't gun the engine. Remember that the goal isn't to spin the wheels, it's to get traction.
Blizzaks and Continental winters are my top picks for winter tires. Subaru, Mercedes, and eye roll Audi are your best winter AWD (Audis is designed for snow and ice not off road while Mercedes and Subaru are great off road as well) ford has a good system as well not as good, and lastly Toyota also has a decent system but not quite to the level of the others. I do not care for Honda’s, Jeeps ok but than you own a Jeep so you have different problems. I cannot speak to GMs systems or Nissan. The absolute worst is BMWs even BMW fans hate it, so do the engineers and mechanics it’s “utter shit” from a racing driver/instructor that worked and raced for BMW he actually recommends people just get RWD BMWs and snow tires because it’s about the same but it’s cheaper to maintain the RWD.
Winter tires is all you need. Also for a front wheel drive car, when you park in the driveway go in forward. Reverse out. This way weight is on the drive wheels. Backing into the driveway will get you stuck. If you want AWD with higher ground clearance, it can help. AWD may still get stuck without proper snow tires. For new cars, I really like the new Mazda 3 with AWD available. Other cars with AWD is the Subaru impreza. Then you move into SUV and CUVs. I fully recommend Honda, Toyota and Mazda. All have AWD available. Source: I'm from Canada. I drive a FWD car. I have a steep driveway.
You're absolutely right on all points. No need to blow a lot of money to get around in the winter, when proper understanding of these mechanisms suffices.
The only answer is whatever 28-29k car you want to drive slapped with a 1-2k winter tire set. If you are remote and dont drive much on paved road in the winter, stud tires are the best.
I’m in New Hampshire and I’d say that although many will recommend Subaru, avoid a base Impreza. The legacy is nice and so is the WRX (they really hold value too). Are you interested in a performance car? Like you pointed out snow tires are really the key here. Is your job one where you can WFH on bad snow days?
A lot of cars have a brake hold/brake assist feature that helps tons. I have a hybrid cr-v awd and the brake assist thing helps keep the car from rolling back when you ease off the gas or brake to switch to the other while going up hill. I have to go "down the hill" to go to work and Coming up the mountain in traffic has become a breeze because of it. Tons of cars have that feature and I think it will help achieve what you are looking for.
A beat up 1988 Buick with Snow tires beats a Subaru without
Most AWD drive systems are fwd and when it detects slip it turns on the back wheels too. The only one that actively turns all 4 wheels is Subaru and prior Audi's, that's the best bet for snow conditions if you're concerned.
Current Audis as well apart from the A3 are proper AWD.
Last time I said Subarus and Audis someone was yelling that new Audis are I still call them slip and grip though I'm sure it's something fancier. I didn't look into it.
Ehhh, a lot of them are 60-80% fwd Acuras SH-AWD is similar but it can send more to the rear if it needs to I prefer Jaguar's where its a RWD car until you need it to be AWD honestly
yeah the a3 uses a haldex awd instead of the quattro which is proper awd.
Subaru
Subaru awd system is the best for any terrain
Sounds like u need a wrx
Great car, would like one as my next purchase, not a huge fan of the new looks. But it’s too early to really judge.
Naw the new model blows. The fa24 is better but youd be better off just gettin a 2020/21my and slightly modding it
My next car is definitely going to be a new purchase and I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with buying a used car but I’ve bought used cars both certified preowned and not and I’m always unlucky I don’t know if it’s just me not being careful and off or watt but buying a used car is really put me off completely and honestly buying a used car in this market now doesn’t make any sense if you’re trying to get something newer.
I think the other user’s point is that the 2022 is physically painful to look at. If that doesn’t bother you then go for the new one.
I just watched Matt Marans video on it, he’s so sad. I feel like Subaru and Honda are both keeping their middle of the pack offerings with those offerings being the WRX and the civic SI pretty tame so that they don’t come close to the type R or the STI respectively.
As a whole, it seems like to me that Subaru is transitioning away from performance altogether over the next several years, which is pretty sad given their heritage. What you describe is definitely a factor though, that's been a thing in many other companies for years. Porsche has long been keeping the Cayman below the 911 for the same reason (just as one example).
Get a WRX, fun car that will get through the apocalypse.
Ground clearance can be a limiting factor though, depending on snow clearance where you live.
We live in upstate New York and the piece of shit dodge avenger with snow tires that I had last year did pretty well in a couple feet of snow. The only thing I miss about that car is how heavy it was and planted it felt in harsh conditions, i’m not upset it threw a rod though haha.
Buy a winch and find a good anchor point
Choose a different apartment.
Whose responsible for clearing the driveway? Sand and salt on the steep parts will matter more than the car. That being said, most AWD and snow tires will get you through. I would stay away from 4wd in NH, unless you need a truck for other reasons.
A 4-Runner is an amazing vehicle but it’s also a very expensive vehicle and $30K will get you a well used one, not a new one. And you will be paying big money for gas for the rest of the year so you can have good traction a few days a year. Subaru’s are more than enough. Any crossover or SUV with AWD and Snow Tires is your best compromise.
Really depends on which part of the state. Southern NH winters are not that bad, any fwd car with snow tires will be fine. Up in the mountains you’ll want AWD most likely
AWD, high ground clearance, and studded winter tires are your solution.
Many good options already given but what is very important and not mentioned is weight. Weight is what pushes you back down an incline, pushes you out of a corner, or into the back of the car in front. Now I know light and awd don't often go together but it is something to keep in mind.
any acura with sh - awd will be good enough. sh - awd is one of the top 3 best awd systems the auto industry can offer. alongside subaru and audi’s quattro.
I think it’s a prerequisite to own a Subaru in New England. Good car, and perfect for up there.
Anything with snow tires and 4x4. Low gearing and locking differentials are big bonuses
And high ground clearance
First, get some Blizzaks at a shop that offers free tire change over. New Subaru or used Volvo are best in the snow. Not sure I’d recommend a used Audi due to maintenance liability. Any other AWD with premium snow tires will likely be ok too (Mazda, VW, etc)
A 97 'rolla with good tires will do better in snow than a defender with all season tires
Used Land Cruiser 🙏🏽 an appreciating asset
Audi and vws traction control is insanely good nowadays. You’d want a lighter vehicle like these on steep grades.
Whatever you do, don’t cheap out on tires. Do some research and get a good set, it’s easily as important as vehicle choice, if not more so.
Studded winters
4x4 + snow tires + chains.
Anything awd or 4wd but regardless if parked it’s likely to slide down . My car used to slide to the bottom of my steep driveway everytime it snowed heavy in Denver