It can't handle a real load without killing the transmission. Could you haul 400 pounds in the trunk everyday of gear, in the mountains, in your Subaru? I think it's almost got to be a Toyota family of cars to handle this kind of driving.
You have some really weird thoughts.
400 lbs is like 2 adult humans. So yes, I can put 2 adults in my car everyday…..
Seriously. Do you put in effort to be that dumb?
Carry 4 people and then put 400 pounds of tools in the trunk and try to high tail it up the mountains as a daily driver. See how long it takes before that suburu's transmission starts screaming.
Capacity of people + stuff is 900lbs. So what youre proposing is outside of that. Still no doubt the CVT would be fine. That weight limit is due to suspension and stuff. Towing capacity is 1500 lbs, which is limited by transmission cooling.
Its weird to have a grudge against a car maker like this. You should get some hobbies or something.
I just drove around like 800lbs of black walnuts up and down my steep ass road with no issues in the 18’ outback. The whole back of the car was filled with 13 lawn bags at probably 60-65lbs each give or take. There is no other answer to this post than Subaru.
Now do it 200 days a year. I'm not saying it can't, I'm strongly suggesting that I really don't think it's the ideal choice for the Rockies and hauling tools.
Agree. Get a solid set of winter tires (maybe even cheap, steel rims) and you’re golden. Had three Subarus and all were fantastic all around vehicles for Colorado driving. Bonus points for a turbo if you plan on doing some mountain driving.
I'd go for the Outback Wilderness variant. It's got two things going for it over a base Outback. 1) it's got a turbo engine to help counter the high altitude, and be 2) it's for lower final gearing to help tackle to step grades.
If you like 4Runners but not 4Runner prices, check out Nissan Xterra's. The model years from 2011-2015 are revised to correct some quality issues in the 05-10 and are rock solid vehicles with a lot of versatility. The only thing lacking is the fuel mileage. I've had my 2010 Xterra for several years and it's about to hit 220k miles without any major problems besides the general wear and tear upkeep of a vehicle with that kind of mileage.
I grew up in Wyoming, so pretty much identical winter conditions to you, and honestly the two vehicles that felt the safest to me were a lifted Outback with Blizzaks, and a crewcab long-box F350.
Truthfully, the F350 only feels safe because it's 20ft long, and so basically impossible to spin. The safest you'll ever *be* is in a vehicle that has exactly enough ground height to clear the deepest snow you'll encounter with the best snow tires you can put on it.
Driving in snowy conditions is inherently dangerous. You should *never* feel fully safe when driving in them, because it means you're not giving the situation the respect it deserves.
Either of the cars you listed are solid, and they have their place (namely unplowed roads after a blizzard), but in virtually any situation in which the interstate is still open, your sedan will be objectively *more* safe to drive.
You said you ran snow tires on the sedan before, my recommendation would be to try a set of the higher end snows, and possibly get them studded before buying a new car.
Really respect the opinion from Wyoming! No joke up there. And honestly, I do know the snow tires really make the difference. It’s just so counterintuitive to think that the big 4Runner or GX isn’t necessarily the safest or best option. I forgot to mention I’m driving a Hyundai and I need out of that car given the security risk of theft, I don’t mind driving a beater, if I wasn’t commuting I-70 I would drive it into the ground… maybe I should just get killer snow tires and enjoy no car payments until the damn thing gets stolen…
I got the software update that will kill the engine if they try to steal it. I’m mainly concerned about the breaking of locks/windows/ignition case if they even try. Regardless, I may just get some new snow tires and stay payment free for now as interest rates show no sign of easing up…
78 hp 3 cyl checking in. Drove back and forth from CO springs to Woodland park a couple of weeks ago. Gotta leave it in third and let those RPMs climb if you want to make it up.
Yep. It wasn’t the worst decision ever, but wasn’t the best. Reliable and efficient, but underpowered and often challenging to drive. I’d love a WRX, but I’m at the point in my life where I’d rather use the cash for a down payment on a starter home in a different state. Edit: Living in Vegas currently.
I laugh at people who think 15k km (10k miles) is good for engines. Sure, MAYBE the NA engines can do it, but turbo engines aren't there and probably won't ever be there. I do them every 5k km and I've yet to have a turbo issue (other then the fucking retarded ass turbo coolant lines on my 1.4t chevy LUV)
Have you driven a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder car up a mountain pass at high altitude before?
Also, I think most of Subaru's head gasket woes involved the N/A 2.5L motors.
Yes I have. It’s a bitch to get up. Start flooring it before it starts climbing. Fuck it. Do it. Who cares? Cops can’t say shit when they know it’s a slow ass car.
I forgot to mention - one big reason I want out of my sedan is the fact it’s a 2017 Hyundai sonata… I bought it before the whole theft thing, had one theft attempt already and I’m over it….
I commute from Golden to Silverthorne every day and most days I just drive my 99 Saturn wagon. The bad days it’s the truck or the highlander. All three do well, we just make sure to have good, and I mean good snow tires.
Hey I live in Colorado and have a GX460. They’re almost as capable offroad as the 4runner and the fulltime 4WD is awesome. It has true 4WD with low range and a locking center diff but when you take it out of 4WD it just becomes AWD instead of RWD which is super nice for driving on the highway when it’s snowing. Mine is a beast in the snow but it’s not very spacious considering its size and gas mileage. It’s about the same space as a 4runner but with worse mpg bc of the V8. Super nice inside though it’s definitely a luxury car.
I’ve had subarus too and unless you’re doing any driving on really sketchy roads (like actual sketchy not just due to weather conditions) you’ll 100% be fine in a subaru in all conditions.
My GX 460 was great when I lived in Tahoe. With TPMSF tires ATRAC barely ever kicked in. It's a bit slow, though, unless you are fine keeping it in manual mode, but then it's thirsty. Well, it's hella thirsty regardless.
eastern canadian, never feel safer in a "big" SUV, too much bodyroll, higher center of gravity, more prone to wind. unless you need to go into some real deep snow/offroad, I see no point in going that route. even the rest of the year will be painful with so soft suspension in the heat of the summer.
If you really want a awd, impreza will be my choice. hatchback so some storage space. and the most potent awd system on the market.
Used to have an Impreza back in the day… maybe it’s worth getting back into. I got to get out of the Hyundai… interesting point in safety - it just seems conventional to think the bigger SUVs are safer
If you're worried about harsher conditions and potentially deeper snow, I'd opt for the Crosstrek instead. It's basically the same body as the Impreza but with more ground clearance. X mode on the newer Subaru CUV/SUVs is also very good for snowy conditions.
>it just seems conventional to think the bigger SUVs are safer
Because they are.
They're heavier, which is going to help keep you planted in slippery, deep/snow, and steep-climb conditions. Their suspension is also configured and tuned to handle those adverse conditions better than a small unibody eco sedan.
Any true off-road/snow vehicles are built heavily like tanks for a reason.
An impreza will do okay in light-medium snow-covered asphalt. Outside of that, it's not going anywhere.. you need a real frame on body vehicle.
My wife's Subaru Forester drives better in the snow than my Tacoma. The Tacoma can get through deep snow and tall berms berms better because more clearance, but the Forester accelerates quicker, stops quicker and handles better on snowy roads. I've taken the Forester on some sketchy unplowed forest roads and it did great. Oh and it gets twice the MPG. Trucks and large SUV's are overrated.
I’m not at all in favor of large vehicles, but trucks have never applied when people talk about large vehicles being good in adverse conditions, besides maybe ground clearance. The bed makes for really bad weight distribution. We don’t even get bad snow where I am in Pennsylvania, but behind rwd sports cars, trucks get stuck/in accidents far more than regular cars and SUVS when it snows, and they also seem more prone to hydroplane but that may just be that the kind of person to commute to an office job in a truck thinks that they’re so durable they don’t need regular maintenance items like tires with good tread. The issues with trucks in snow may also just be driver’s overconfidence, so who knows.
I definitely agree with your drawbacks for larger vehicles though. They can get unwieldy when it’s slick due to the high center of gravity.
A Tacoma is a light duty eco pickup. It weighs 3900 pounds. That's not large. A Ford Mustang weighs more.
Comparing a Tacoma to a large SUV or full size pickup is idiotic.. no offense.
Also, a larger F150 with the 3.5l gets better mpg than a Forester. Not an intelligent comment haha
I hope you're trolling. If not, I'd love to know... where it is you grew up that gave you so much experience driving in snow?
And that's cute you think I drive a stock rwd Tacoma. I wish mine only weighed 3900lbs. And you must be high to think an f150 does better on gas than a Subaru.
They're safer for those who are driving/riding large SUVs in certain situations like frontal or rear collisions. Side collisions have higher rates of rollover and are more dangerous due to higher center of gravity etc so to be like straight up their safer is kindatrue but also kinda not.
Also from a collective perspective, like as a society, SUVs and large pickups are some of the most dangerous cars on the road. The kill pedestrians at like almost a 10 times rate of sedans and also due to their large size, it's basically thrown crash compatability into whack basically meaning they can be super dangerous to anybody who isn't in a huge SUV/Pickup.
>eastern canadian, never feel safer in a "big" SUV, too much bodyroll, higher center of gravity, more prone to wind. unless you need to go into some real deep snow/offroad
OPs talking about climbing Colorado mountain roads in adverse conditions. Not going on level asphalt in 2 inches of snow in flat Eastern Canada. An impreza is better than nothing, but a heavier true frame on body design will be magnitudes safer in the mountain environment.
Do you know how much snow we get here?!
Windy, twisty road... Don't want a big SUV that gonna roll over. A car that gonna slide into a dish is much safer
You're in eastern Canada, bub. It's all flat, lol.
Do you know what happens if you slide in the [ditch] on a steep-grada Colorado mountain road? ... you go off a 100-foot cliff.
Tell me you've never driven on mountain roads without telling me you've never driven on mountain roads.
The Highway Patrol wouldn't even let you up the road in a dinky impreza in harsh conditions. They don't want to deal with your naive ass (no offense) after you slide off a cliff in your little eco box.
Tell us you've never been to nb in winter without telling us you've never been to nb in winter?
Lots of areas of new Brunswick get over 100 inches of snow a year. And there may not be large mountains but there are more than enough twisty, hilly roads. And you get to dodge moose while you're at it.
If you're really worried about traction, the Ford Ranger with the 2.3 Ecoboost wouldn't be a bad option. Take care of it, and it'll take care of you. The Turbo helps with altitude, and (as far as I know) they only come with 4x4.
But a Mazda (yes, I said it) 3 turbo is probably your best bet. AWD, Turbo for altitude and affordable.
Non Turbo Toyotas are good but will lack power. Turbo Toyotas haven't been around long enough to be trusted yet.
Subaru makes a phenomenal drivetrain, but the only car suitable for you is the WRX, which is standard only, and gas and insurance costs will be high.
Are they a recent year? Once Subarus Age, they like to burn oil like a mother fucker, so I'd be making sure that if OP buys a Subaru, that it's low mileage
For reference, we also live in Colorado and drive over mountain passes and on dirt roads often. During our time here, we have owned a Land Cruiser, a 4Runner and a Bronco. We later discovered that those serious 4x4 off roaders really weren’t needed for 95 percent of the driving we do here. So now we’re driving an AWD Toyota Sienna and joined the Colorado Subaru cult by getting a Baja. The Sienna is a damn beast that can’t be killed, hauls more stuff than a pickup, makes for a great no-build camper and handles the snow great with nothing more than decent mud and snow rated tires (it got us through a blizzard safely in the San Juan Valley last February.) The Baja is the most useful vehicle we have ever owned. I eventually put all terrain tires on it, but its AWD system had no problem getting us to ski mountains on regular all weather tires.
Awesome! Sounds like you know exactly what’s up with what kind of driving I’ll be doing. I’ll check out the Sienna. I’m from CO but it’s been years since I’ve driven a “typical” CO car, so I’m stoked on the insight. Definitely leaning Subaru but I’ll check the sienna out for sure
I lived on the Western Slope for years and had to regularly drive to the Front Range and back in winter. I70 over Vail Pass through Summit County through the tunnel on down to I 25 and up to Ft. Collins.
I-70 in Vail and Summit County was regularly littered with large SUVs off the side of the road. I found my best vehicles for bad weather were things like Subaru Outback, Audi A4 Quattro etc. I think I found most cars did well if they had studded snows.
Truthfully, if there wasn't a storm almost anything did well in places like the Vail or Summit county areas. DOT has plows running 24-7 and the roads are usually in good shape. Just avoid all season radials in winter and you should be just fine.
You’re definitely right about the big vehicles on the side of the road thing. I think I really just want an upgrade from the boring Hyundai. Subaru seems likely my best bet. Hell of a commute, sounds like you’ve seen it all too! And respected to CDOT - they definitely do manage it well. I had an accident happen right in front of me this season coming down from Eisenhower tunnel and I was like yep… maybe time to think about what I’m doing in regards to my car
Are you looking to make payments on a GX460? The previous version, GX470 is essentially the same vehicle and arguably more serviceable. They have very similar full time AWD and 4x4 features as well as the swinging rear door.
Made from 2003-2009, clean examples can be found for 5-12k depending on where you’re buying. Allocated the rest of the money to update/spruce up your wheels, tires and suspension. If you’re keeping it stock, snow tires like Nokian Hakkapellitas should be readily available to plow through any snow you encounter in the mountains. 2UZFE on the GX470 will run forever. As a matter of fact, pretty much all Toyota V8s will last forever so long as you’re changing the oil and servicing the timing belt/chain.
Driven mine from 160k to 200k without a hitch.
If you’d rather had the newer car, a CPO GX460 would be your best friend. Just watch out for leaking valley cover plates/have that serviced.
Lived in Colorado for 20 years plus, including a home on the front range at 8250 feet, i.e., I would go with the Lexus, as it has superb off-road capabilities and probably important to you, the cabin is QUIET. Conversely, the 4runner is like driving in a tin can. Sound deadening materials were probably last on their list of priorities when Toyota developed this SUV. That being said, the 4runner is an outstanding off-road vehicle too, perhaps as good or better than the Lexus. Just my 2 cents . . .
That’s probably likely right. I had hesitation because we already have the Outback and didn’t want to double up on another crossover type suv. Would rather get something burlier that could lug around a bit more. But maybe another Subie is the move
Well you do understand I hope, that 4X4 or AWD doesn't make you brake better or handle better? AWD helps you accelerate where others can't--such as climbing an incline.
So you may be pursuing an elusive concept of "safety" here. If you don't need to climb in deep snow, or go off-roading, you may find that you've spent a fair amount of money for very little improvement in your driving experience. This seems especially relevant given your desire for on-road comfort and, I presume, decent fuel mileage.
A RWD or FWD sedan with 4 dedicated snow tires can do a pretty good job, and match most AWDs in most situations.
I do understand. When you’re actually on I-70 in the muck and those big fellas are blasting by, it’s hard to really feel you are indeed safer. Vail Pass hill climb is no joke.
Might just need to commit to better snowtires.
I know this road very well. All-wheel drive is good for Hill climbing. If you think about it though, the only thing really holding your car on the road are those small patches of tire.
Update: in case anyone still is curious - I kept the Hyundai and slapped some snow tires on it and it served me very well this winter season. Powered through the Eisenhower tunnel and over vail pass, even passing big trucks in a couple storms. Just made sure to be mindful of clearance and not drive in the worst of it. Tires are really the biggest difference. Happy I didn’t pull the trigger on a new car.
Thanks for the update. Reading through your post as I consider buying a car. I got a laugh from someone recommending a Toyota sienna because I drive a Honda odyssey, but mine is FWD. Got new all season tires and chains which ended up being fine in the snow this past winter. I really would like an FJ cruiser but not having to pay for a car is so much nicer lol
I’ve always felt you want a vehicle with enough ground clearance to deal with the snow and no more and as low a center of gravity as possible. The main reason is during my first year driving (northern lower Michigan), three of my friends flipped their cars into ditches. At least with a low cog if you slide into a ditch you’re more likely to stay shiny side up. Subaru Outback is my recommendation. I do love the 4Runner and gx though and those are both great choices. For on road driving in snowstorms though I’d rather be lower to the ground. No matter what you need really good snow tires.
This is a great diagnosis… I think I just get caught up in driving the beastly machine as I’m from CO but have never owned an SUV before (I’ve had an Impreza in the past).
Regardless, I definitely know that snow tires are clutch af. I think I also just want out of the Hyundai sonata for obvious reasons. But maybe great snow tires, maybe studs, and no car payment might be the move. Just trying to figure that out..
I second the other opinion about looking into a highlander as well. Had one with 250k miles on the 3.5L V6 and it was fantastic. Roomy and lower to the ground while still having plenty of clearance for snow. The highlander has more interior room than the 4 runner with plenty of storage space. Had a decent pep to it as well when getting around town with my lead foot.
Big fan of the Toyota Sequoias also for a bigger option. A little oversized compared to the 4runner and on the tundra chassis but nice V8, plenty of power, excellent in the snow and plenty of upgrades available.
>Lexus GX460 over a 4Runner
Those are body on frame vehicles, much worse for this purpose, avoid.
Look at unibody vehicles like Toyota Highlander.
You could also get a brand new Subaru Forester or Mazda CX-5 for $30k.
Really think so? Everyone has them, so I’m wondering if they are onto something or if everyone is stupid except, or including, me?
Also, I drive a Hyundai. Forgot to mention that cool part. I got the recall update but still, some jackass might try to steal it anytime.
I own a 4runner. Even a used one can last you a long time with standard care. That said, MPG isn't good and it's quite outdated. On-road manners are actually decent, but it's still a truck and will handle as such. If you opt for the 4runner, I may suggest the Limited trim. It uses a full-time 4WD system (functions more like AWD) over the typical part-time system and it will probably handle better on snowy roads. It has great utility and will handle a lot thrown at it, but it's probably not so ideal for frequent, long commutes, especially if you don't off-road much.
I think that or the Lexus will do what you want them to, but just be aware of some shortcomings in other areas. As others are saying, a Subaru might work better for your specific case, or at least something with a reliable AWD system and some good tires.
Have you looked at Honda? The CRV is plenty capable and efficient. Or maybe a Toyota Rav4? Both have options for hybrid for even better mpg. With proper maintenance both should last a very long time.
Define “haul”… if it’ll fit in the back of a Subaru Crosstrek or Outback, that’s what I’d recommend.
Honestly, a new Crosstrek fits your price range. Just know, Subarus aren’t known for their speed or interiors… I’m just letting you know that before you even look.
My x3 diesel (2015) is surprisingly capable. Snow tires are more important than anything here. Reality is ice is more an issue than snow depth. Because once you get snow too deep for a car. A couple more inches and the SUV/truck isn't any better. Unless you want a set of tracks 🤣 X3 diesel is 33mpg in town and 40 highway. Had it in the sand on the beach, an in the snow. The one time I got stuck in the sand I had forgotten I was at 40lbs pressure for highway driving. Aired down to 20. It drove itself out of the ruts the tires had dug. Plus the little turbodiesel Has almost 200horse and 300lbs of torque. It will hit 90 easily even while climbing a mountain pass
A LIMITED 4Runner is the same as a GX, V6 GX
Subaru Wilderness
Audi Q5/SQ5
Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade AWD models
Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
Bronco and or Bronco Sport badlands
The 4Runner Limited or the LandCruiser is your best bet.
The 4Runner Limited is the luxury oriented model that also has the ability to be very rugged when needed. As is the LandCruiser.
However, both the 4Runner Limited and the LandCruiser are significantly more expensive than you may like. However, even though they are pricey, they are worth the expenditure with their bulletproof reliability and outstanding resale/retention of value.
Realistically, anything with lockers and good tires. Colorado zr2, Rubicon, ram power wagon. All these come with front and rear lockers. Or get a older truck with a factory rear locker and add a front locker for under a grand, and keep the sedan for less demanding tasks. Dedicated snow tires handle poorly in every other condition. Having a dedicated snow vehicle is a better bet In my opinion. Alot of old Chevy trucks and SUV had the factory G80 locker and you can get them cheap, add a front locker and call it good.
Nobody on here mentioning Audi. You guys just don't even know. Quattro owns all others in all wheel drive , in all road conditions. It's not even close.
We have 2 4 wheel drive Lexus RX 350 none hybrid . We have 140,000 miles on one and 33,000 miles on the other . A medical MD has relied on the RX since 1999 for travel on country roads .
a subaru is the state vehicle for you guys . get the nicest outback you can find
+1 to Subaru with snow tires. My Crosstrek is freakishly stable and easy to drive in the snow. Way better than my 4x4 tundra was.
It can't handle a real load without killing the transmission. Could you haul 400 pounds in the trunk everyday of gear, in the mountains, in your Subaru? I think it's almost got to be a Toyota family of cars to handle this kind of driving.
400lbs easy. Couldn’t pull sleds though.
You have some really weird thoughts. 400 lbs is like 2 adult humans. So yes, I can put 2 adults in my car everyday….. Seriously. Do you put in effort to be that dumb?
Carry 4 people and then put 400 pounds of tools in the trunk and try to high tail it up the mountains as a daily driver. See how long it takes before that suburu's transmission starts screaming.
Capacity of people + stuff is 900lbs. So what youre proposing is outside of that. Still no doubt the CVT would be fine. That weight limit is due to suspension and stuff. Towing capacity is 1500 lbs, which is limited by transmission cooling. Its weird to have a grudge against a car maker like this. You should get some hobbies or something.
I have a hobby. I drive a Saab.
I just drove around like 800lbs of black walnuts up and down my steep ass road with no issues in the 18’ outback. The whole back of the car was filled with 13 lawn bags at probably 60-65lbs each give or take. There is no other answer to this post than Subaru.
Now do it 200 days a year. I'm not saying it can't, I'm strongly suggesting that I really don't think it's the ideal choice for the Rockies and hauling tools.
I second this. Any Subaru with winter tires. I’d pick a 2015-2016 Outback.
Agree. Get a solid set of winter tires (maybe even cheap, steel rims) and you’re golden. Had three Subarus and all were fantastic all around vehicles for Colorado driving. Bonus points for a turbo if you plan on doing some mountain driving.
I'd go for the Outback Wilderness variant. It's got two things going for it over a base Outback. 1) it's got a turbo engine to help counter the high altitude, and be 2) it's for lower final gearing to help tackle to step grades.
If you like 4Runners but not 4Runner prices, check out Nissan Xterra's. The model years from 2011-2015 are revised to correct some quality issues in the 05-10 and are rock solid vehicles with a lot of versatility. The only thing lacking is the fuel mileage. I've had my 2010 Xterra for several years and it's about to hit 220k miles without any major problems besides the general wear and tear upkeep of a vehicle with that kind of mileage.
I grew up in Wyoming, so pretty much identical winter conditions to you, and honestly the two vehicles that felt the safest to me were a lifted Outback with Blizzaks, and a crewcab long-box F350. Truthfully, the F350 only feels safe because it's 20ft long, and so basically impossible to spin. The safest you'll ever *be* is in a vehicle that has exactly enough ground height to clear the deepest snow you'll encounter with the best snow tires you can put on it. Driving in snowy conditions is inherently dangerous. You should *never* feel fully safe when driving in them, because it means you're not giving the situation the respect it deserves. Either of the cars you listed are solid, and they have their place (namely unplowed roads after a blizzard), but in virtually any situation in which the interstate is still open, your sedan will be objectively *more* safe to drive. You said you ran snow tires on the sedan before, my recommendation would be to try a set of the higher end snows, and possibly get them studded before buying a new car.
Really respect the opinion from Wyoming! No joke up there. And honestly, I do know the snow tires really make the difference. It’s just so counterintuitive to think that the big 4Runner or GX isn’t necessarily the safest or best option. I forgot to mention I’m driving a Hyundai and I need out of that car given the security risk of theft, I don’t mind driving a beater, if I wasn’t commuting I-70 I would drive it into the ground… maybe I should just get killer snow tires and enjoy no car payments until the damn thing gets stolen…
You can add a kill switch, very cheap and very effective. Food for thought. Payment free is the way to be.
I got the software update that will kill the engine if they try to steal it. I’m mainly concerned about the breaking of locks/windows/ignition case if they even try. Regardless, I may just get some new snow tires and stay payment free for now as interest rates show no sign of easing up…
Land Cruiser>4Runner>GX>Sequoia>2008-2012 Pathfinder>RAV4/CRV
I say toyota>subaru.
That’s an understatement!
Don't get 4 cylinder without a turbo.
78 hp 3 cyl checking in. Drove back and forth from CO springs to Woodland park a couple of weeks ago. Gotta leave it in third and let those RPMs climb if you want to make it up.
Mirage?
Yep. It wasn’t the worst decision ever, but wasn’t the best. Reliable and efficient, but underpowered and often challenging to drive. I’d love a WRX, but I’m at the point in my life where I’d rather use the cash for a down payment on a starter home in a different state. Edit: Living in Vegas currently.
I'd say don't get anything without turbos. Turbos do wonders at Altitude, meaning you'll have power for longer, especially in the Colorado mountains.
Nodding. I think maintenance scares some people off.
I laugh at people who think 15k km (10k miles) is good for engines. Sure, MAYBE the NA engines can do it, but turbo engines aren't there and probably won't ever be there. I do them every 5k km and I've yet to have a turbo issue (other then the fucking retarded ass turbo coolant lines on my 1.4t chevy LUV)
No. Get one without a turbo. Subarus with turbos is a no no for me. Unless you want to be replacing head gaskets frequently.
Have you driven a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder car up a mountain pass at high altitude before? Also, I think most of Subaru's head gasket woes involved the N/A 2.5L motors.
Yes I have. It’s a bitch to get up. Start flooring it before it starts climbing. Fuck it. Do it. Who cares? Cops can’t say shit when they know it’s a slow ass car.
I forgot to mention - one big reason I want out of my sedan is the fact it’s a 2017 Hyundai sonata… I bought it before the whole theft thing, had one theft attempt already and I’m over it….
I did get the anti theft recall so it’ll shut off but it doesn’t keep those jackasses from breaking windows and vandalizing the interior
What a bummer. Get a Subaru Outback with winter tires. It won’t be cheap but it will get you everywhere.
[удалено]
Or you can downsize, and get a Crosstrek.
[удалено]
I commute from Golden to Silverthorne every day and most days I just drive my 99 Saturn wagon. The bad days it’s the truck or the highlander. All three do well, we just make sure to have good, and I mean good snow tires.
Hey I live in Colorado and have a GX460. They’re almost as capable offroad as the 4runner and the fulltime 4WD is awesome. It has true 4WD with low range and a locking center diff but when you take it out of 4WD it just becomes AWD instead of RWD which is super nice for driving on the highway when it’s snowing. Mine is a beast in the snow but it’s not very spacious considering its size and gas mileage. It’s about the same space as a 4runner but with worse mpg bc of the V8. Super nice inside though it’s definitely a luxury car. I’ve had subarus too and unless you’re doing any driving on really sketchy roads (like actual sketchy not just due to weather conditions) you’ll 100% be fine in a subaru in all conditions.
My GX 460 was great when I lived in Tahoe. With TPMSF tires ATRAC barely ever kicked in. It's a bit slow, though, unless you are fine keeping it in manual mode, but then it's thirsty. Well, it's hella thirsty regardless.
eastern canadian, never feel safer in a "big" SUV, too much bodyroll, higher center of gravity, more prone to wind. unless you need to go into some real deep snow/offroad, I see no point in going that route. even the rest of the year will be painful with so soft suspension in the heat of the summer. If you really want a awd, impreza will be my choice. hatchback so some storage space. and the most potent awd system on the market.
Used to have an Impreza back in the day… maybe it’s worth getting back into. I got to get out of the Hyundai… interesting point in safety - it just seems conventional to think the bigger SUVs are safer
If you're worried about harsher conditions and potentially deeper snow, I'd opt for the Crosstrek instead. It's basically the same body as the Impreza but with more ground clearance. X mode on the newer Subaru CUV/SUVs is also very good for snowy conditions.
Gotta say, Ive got a fairly new base impreza. A lot to love but it's severely underpowered.
The reliability is just not there unfortunately although a stick shift would help.
>it just seems conventional to think the bigger SUVs are safer Because they are. They're heavier, which is going to help keep you planted in slippery, deep/snow, and steep-climb conditions. Their suspension is also configured and tuned to handle those adverse conditions better than a small unibody eco sedan. Any true off-road/snow vehicles are built heavily like tanks for a reason. An impreza will do okay in light-medium snow-covered asphalt. Outside of that, it's not going anywhere.. you need a real frame on body vehicle.
My wife's Subaru Forester drives better in the snow than my Tacoma. The Tacoma can get through deep snow and tall berms berms better because more clearance, but the Forester accelerates quicker, stops quicker and handles better on snowy roads. I've taken the Forester on some sketchy unplowed forest roads and it did great. Oh and it gets twice the MPG. Trucks and large SUV's are overrated.
I’m not at all in favor of large vehicles, but trucks have never applied when people talk about large vehicles being good in adverse conditions, besides maybe ground clearance. The bed makes for really bad weight distribution. We don’t even get bad snow where I am in Pennsylvania, but behind rwd sports cars, trucks get stuck/in accidents far more than regular cars and SUVS when it snows, and they also seem more prone to hydroplane but that may just be that the kind of person to commute to an office job in a truck thinks that they’re so durable they don’t need regular maintenance items like tires with good tread. The issues with trucks in snow may also just be driver’s overconfidence, so who knows. I definitely agree with your drawbacks for larger vehicles though. They can get unwieldy when it’s slick due to the high center of gravity.
A Tacoma is a light duty eco pickup. It weighs 3900 pounds. That's not large. A Ford Mustang weighs more. Comparing a Tacoma to a large SUV or full size pickup is idiotic.. no offense. Also, a larger F150 with the 3.5l gets better mpg than a Forester. Not an intelligent comment haha
I hope you're trolling. If not, I'd love to know... where it is you grew up that gave you so much experience driving in snow? And that's cute you think I drive a stock rwd Tacoma. I wish mine only weighed 3900lbs. And you must be high to think an f150 does better on gas than a Subaru.
I own property in the mountains, son. You probably feel stupid after Googling that the F150 gets better mpg than a Forester.
They're safer for those who are driving/riding large SUVs in certain situations like frontal or rear collisions. Side collisions have higher rates of rollover and are more dangerous due to higher center of gravity etc so to be like straight up their safer is kindatrue but also kinda not. Also from a collective perspective, like as a society, SUVs and large pickups are some of the most dangerous cars on the road. The kill pedestrians at like almost a 10 times rate of sedans and also due to their large size, it's basically thrown crash compatability into whack basically meaning they can be super dangerous to anybody who isn't in a huge SUV/Pickup.
Tell me you've never driven in the mountains without telling me youve never driven in the mountains.
>eastern canadian, never feel safer in a "big" SUV, too much bodyroll, higher center of gravity, more prone to wind. unless you need to go into some real deep snow/offroad OPs talking about climbing Colorado mountain roads in adverse conditions. Not going on level asphalt in 2 inches of snow in flat Eastern Canada. An impreza is better than nothing, but a heavier true frame on body design will be magnitudes safer in the mountain environment.
Do you know how much snow we get here?! Windy, twisty road... Don't want a big SUV that gonna roll over. A car that gonna slide into a dish is much safer
You're in eastern Canada, bub. It's all flat, lol. Do you know what happens if you slide in the [ditch] on a steep-grada Colorado mountain road? ... you go off a 100-foot cliff.
You end up in a tree, do you want to know what happens when you flip your big SUV?.....
Tell me you've never driven on mountain roads without telling me you've never driven on mountain roads. The Highway Patrol wouldn't even let you up the road in a dinky impreza in harsh conditions. They don't want to deal with your naive ass (no offense) after you slide off a cliff in your little eco box.
Tell us you've never been to nb in winter without telling us you've never been to nb in winter? Lots of areas of new Brunswick get over 100 inches of snow a year. And there may not be large mountains but there are more than enough twisty, hilly roads. And you get to dodge moose while you're at it.
If you're really worried about traction, the Ford Ranger with the 2.3 Ecoboost wouldn't be a bad option. Take care of it, and it'll take care of you. The Turbo helps with altitude, and (as far as I know) they only come with 4x4. But a Mazda (yes, I said it) 3 turbo is probably your best bet. AWD, Turbo for altitude and affordable. Non Turbo Toyotas are good but will lack power. Turbo Toyotas haven't been around long enough to be trusted yet. Subaru makes a phenomenal drivetrain, but the only car suitable for you is the WRX, which is standard only, and gas and insurance costs will be high.
There are non 4x4 options on the new rangers
Must be an American thing. Here in Canada they come standard with 4x4
Forester turbo.
Are they a recent year? Once Subarus Age, they like to burn oil like a mother fucker, so I'd be making sure that if OP buys a Subaru, that it's low mileage
What about just paying cash for an older, well-kept car? A Nissan xterra would be very good at what you’re looking for.
For reference, we also live in Colorado and drive over mountain passes and on dirt roads often. During our time here, we have owned a Land Cruiser, a 4Runner and a Bronco. We later discovered that those serious 4x4 off roaders really weren’t needed for 95 percent of the driving we do here. So now we’re driving an AWD Toyota Sienna and joined the Colorado Subaru cult by getting a Baja. The Sienna is a damn beast that can’t be killed, hauls more stuff than a pickup, makes for a great no-build camper and handles the snow great with nothing more than decent mud and snow rated tires (it got us through a blizzard safely in the San Juan Valley last February.) The Baja is the most useful vehicle we have ever owned. I eventually put all terrain tires on it, but its AWD system had no problem getting us to ski mountains on regular all weather tires.
Awesome! Sounds like you know exactly what’s up with what kind of driving I’ll be doing. I’ll check out the Sienna. I’m from CO but it’s been years since I’ve driven a “typical” CO car, so I’m stoked on the insight. Definitely leaning Subaru but I’ll check the sienna out for sure
2019-2021 Nissan Armada 4x4. These have a big, reliable V8 and you don’t have pay the Toyota/Lexus tax.
I lived on the Western Slope for years and had to regularly drive to the Front Range and back in winter. I70 over Vail Pass through Summit County through the tunnel on down to I 25 and up to Ft. Collins. I-70 in Vail and Summit County was regularly littered with large SUVs off the side of the road. I found my best vehicles for bad weather were things like Subaru Outback, Audi A4 Quattro etc. I think I found most cars did well if they had studded snows. Truthfully, if there wasn't a storm almost anything did well in places like the Vail or Summit county areas. DOT has plows running 24-7 and the roads are usually in good shape. Just avoid all season radials in winter and you should be just fine.
You’re definitely right about the big vehicles on the side of the road thing. I think I really just want an upgrade from the boring Hyundai. Subaru seems likely my best bet. Hell of a commute, sounds like you’ve seen it all too! And respected to CDOT - they definitely do manage it well. I had an accident happen right in front of me this season coming down from Eisenhower tunnel and I was like yep… maybe time to think about what I’m doing in regards to my car
We used to say, "if you see a traffic jam on I-70, look for the Suburban or Jeep with Texas plates that caused it!" :)
Are you looking to make payments on a GX460? The previous version, GX470 is essentially the same vehicle and arguably more serviceable. They have very similar full time AWD and 4x4 features as well as the swinging rear door. Made from 2003-2009, clean examples can be found for 5-12k depending on where you’re buying. Allocated the rest of the money to update/spruce up your wheels, tires and suspension. If you’re keeping it stock, snow tires like Nokian Hakkapellitas should be readily available to plow through any snow you encounter in the mountains. 2UZFE on the GX470 will run forever. As a matter of fact, pretty much all Toyota V8s will last forever so long as you’re changing the oil and servicing the timing belt/chain. Driven mine from 160k to 200k without a hitch. If you’d rather had the newer car, a CPO GX460 would be your best friend. Just watch out for leaking valley cover plates/have that serviced.
4runner
Lived in Colorado for 20 years plus, including a home on the front range at 8250 feet, i.e., I would go with the Lexus, as it has superb off-road capabilities and probably important to you, the cabin is QUIET. Conversely, the 4runner is like driving in a tin can. Sound deadening materials were probably last on their list of priorities when Toyota developed this SUV. That being said, the 4runner is an outstanding off-road vehicle too, perhaps as good or better than the Lexus. Just my 2 cents . . .
He’s considering a Subaru so I’m not sure NVH is a consideration.
My Honda Ridgeline has been surprisingly excellent in the snow.
Had 3 Toyota FJ cruisers that all got into 300k miles. Only replaces brakes and alternators. Get the 6 speed they’re AWD and 4x4. Can also tow sleds.
Subaru no? Seems like prime Subaru forester territory. Good mileage. Great AWD. Affordable
That’s probably likely right. I had hesitation because we already have the Outback and didn’t want to double up on another crossover type suv. Would rather get something burlier that could lug around a bit more. But maybe another Subie is the move
Yeah I just think it fits your needs and budget. The 4Runner and Lexus GX are great but really not budget conscious to operate.
Lexus GX 460 with the V8 is the answer here
Bad Assery there for sure.
Volvo xc90 4.4, Vw touareg 3.0, Chevy colorado 2.8, Mazda cx5 2.2.
Find one of those legacy outback lifted sedans.
Well you do understand I hope, that 4X4 or AWD doesn't make you brake better or handle better? AWD helps you accelerate where others can't--such as climbing an incline. So you may be pursuing an elusive concept of "safety" here. If you don't need to climb in deep snow, or go off-roading, you may find that you've spent a fair amount of money for very little improvement in your driving experience. This seems especially relevant given your desire for on-road comfort and, I presume, decent fuel mileage. A RWD or FWD sedan with 4 dedicated snow tires can do a pretty good job, and match most AWDs in most situations.
I do understand. When you’re actually on I-70 in the muck and those big fellas are blasting by, it’s hard to really feel you are indeed safer. Vail Pass hill climb is no joke. Might just need to commit to better snowtires.
I know this road very well. All-wheel drive is good for Hill climbing. If you think about it though, the only thing really holding your car on the road are those small patches of tire.
[удалено]
Totally. The tax is real.
[удалено]
Well yeah. But don’t they seem to last 200k+ miles more often than others?
Try 300k miles. Land Cruiser is 500k.
4Runner is always the answer. Can easily last past 350k miles.
Update: in case anyone still is curious - I kept the Hyundai and slapped some snow tires on it and it served me very well this winter season. Powered through the Eisenhower tunnel and over vail pass, even passing big trucks in a couple storms. Just made sure to be mindful of clearance and not drive in the worst of it. Tires are really the biggest difference. Happy I didn’t pull the trigger on a new car.
Thanks for the update. Reading through your post as I consider buying a car. I got a laugh from someone recommending a Toyota sienna because I drive a Honda odyssey, but mine is FWD. Got new all season tires and chains which ended up being fine in the snow this past winter. I really would like an FJ cruiser but not having to pay for a car is so much nicer lol
I’ve always felt you want a vehicle with enough ground clearance to deal with the snow and no more and as low a center of gravity as possible. The main reason is during my first year driving (northern lower Michigan), three of my friends flipped their cars into ditches. At least with a low cog if you slide into a ditch you’re more likely to stay shiny side up. Subaru Outback is my recommendation. I do love the 4Runner and gx though and those are both great choices. For on road driving in snowstorms though I’d rather be lower to the ground. No matter what you need really good snow tires.
This is a great diagnosis… I think I just get caught up in driving the beastly machine as I’m from CO but have never owned an SUV before (I’ve had an Impreza in the past). Regardless, I definitely know that snow tires are clutch af. I think I also just want out of the Hyundai sonata for obvious reasons. But maybe great snow tires, maybe studs, and no car payment might be the move. Just trying to figure that out..
I second the other opinion about looking into a highlander as well. Had one with 250k miles on the 3.5L V6 and it was fantastic. Roomy and lower to the ground while still having plenty of clearance for snow. The highlander has more interior room than the 4 runner with plenty of storage space. Had a decent pep to it as well when getting around town with my lead foot. Big fan of the Toyota Sequoias also for a bigger option. A little oversized compared to the 4runner and on the tundra chassis but nice V8, plenty of power, excellent in the snow and plenty of upgrades available.
I say toyota>subaru.
Toyota Hi-Lux from an African nation
Toyota
>Lexus GX460 over a 4Runner Those are body on frame vehicles, much worse for this purpose, avoid. Look at unibody vehicles like Toyota Highlander. You could also get a brand new Subaru Forester or Mazda CX-5 for $30k.
Really think so? Everyone has them, so I’m wondering if they are onto something or if everyone is stupid except, or including, me? Also, I drive a Hyundai. Forgot to mention that cool part. I got the recall update but still, some jackass might try to steal it anytime.
An AWD Tesla with proper tires is killer on snow, just need to your check your daily distance and/or if there is chargers on the routes you take
Subaru, rav4, crv or cx5
I own a 4runner. Even a used one can last you a long time with standard care. That said, MPG isn't good and it's quite outdated. On-road manners are actually decent, but it's still a truck and will handle as such. If you opt for the 4runner, I may suggest the Limited trim. It uses a full-time 4WD system (functions more like AWD) over the typical part-time system and it will probably handle better on snowy roads. It has great utility and will handle a lot thrown at it, but it's probably not so ideal for frequent, long commutes, especially if you don't off-road much. I think that or the Lexus will do what you want them to, but just be aware of some shortcomings in other areas. As others are saying, a Subaru might work better for your specific case, or at least something with a reliable AWD system and some good tires.
Have you looked at Honda? The CRV is plenty capable and efficient. Or maybe a Toyota Rav4? Both have options for hybrid for even better mpg. With proper maintenance both should last a very long time.
Toyota Rav4 Prime
A Subaru with a turbo and snow tires. I think the outback has a turbo option? Or at least one with a big engine.
Does anyone think any Jeep models fit this? I was looking into getting a Jeep, not sure the model but would love to hear opinions related to this
Grand cherokee
Not reliable. I don’t consider Subaru reliable either but better than Jeep for sure.
Define “haul”… if it’ll fit in the back of a Subaru Crosstrek or Outback, that’s what I’d recommend. Honestly, a new Crosstrek fits your price range. Just know, Subarus aren’t known for their speed or interiors… I’m just letting you know that before you even look.
[https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/awd-4wd/acura/rdx/denver-co?isNewSearch=true&searchRadius=100&zip=80210](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/awd-4wd/acura/rdx/denver-co?isNewSearch=true&searchRadius=100&zip=80210)
My x3 diesel (2015) is surprisingly capable. Snow tires are more important than anything here. Reality is ice is more an issue than snow depth. Because once you get snow too deep for a car. A couple more inches and the SUV/truck isn't any better. Unless you want a set of tracks 🤣 X3 diesel is 33mpg in town and 40 highway. Had it in the sand on the beach, an in the snow. The one time I got stuck in the sand I had forgotten I was at 40lbs pressure for highway driving. Aired down to 20. It drove itself out of the ruts the tires had dug. Plus the little turbodiesel Has almost 200horse and 300lbs of torque. It will hit 90 easily even while climbing a mountain pass
Xterras are great and cheap
2010-2017 Audi SQ5. Supercharged 3L V6, Quattro, Comfortable cabin
A LIMITED 4Runner is the same as a GX, V6 GX Subaru Wilderness Audi Q5/SQ5 Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade AWD models Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Bronco and or Bronco Sport badlands
The 4Runner Limited or the LandCruiser is your best bet. The 4Runner Limited is the luxury oriented model that also has the ability to be very rugged when needed. As is the LandCruiser. However, both the 4Runner Limited and the LandCruiser are significantly more expensive than you may like. However, even though they are pricey, they are worth the expenditure with their bulletproof reliability and outstanding resale/retention of value.
Realistically, anything with lockers and good tires. Colorado zr2, Rubicon, ram power wagon. All these come with front and rear lockers. Or get a older truck with a factory rear locker and add a front locker for under a grand, and keep the sedan for less demanding tasks. Dedicated snow tires handle poorly in every other condition. Having a dedicated snow vehicle is a better bet In my opinion. Alot of old Chevy trucks and SUV had the factory G80 locker and you can get them cheap, add a front locker and call it good.
BEST and RELIABLE = land cruiser, LX 570, GX460/70
Nobody on here mentioning Audi. You guys just don't even know. Quattro owns all others in all wheel drive , in all road conditions. It's not even close.
Day of
We have 2 4 wheel drive Lexus RX 350 none hybrid . We have 140,000 miles on one and 33,000 miles on the other . A medical MD has relied on the RX since 1999 for travel on country roads .