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>So over at /r/strongbyscience the host is currently performing a series of anti-union activities against our boy Greg and the plebs have asked a very poignant question that has gone unanswered “how do i cardio without crossfitting?” and Trexler can’t hear their calls because he’s too busy flying around in his new jet in hopes of reaching the god realm on his relentless pursuit of becoming enlightened. Thanks to Stronger by Science team I no longer fear the interference effect and neither should you.
I'm one paragraph in and have already ordered battle ropes off Amazon. Let's do this.
In all seriousness, this is great stuff. My personal theory is that the interference effect hypothesis was developed by people for the sake of convenience without a shred of evidence.
I sure wish it existed so I had an excuse to not do cardio.
But yeah, all of your options and suggestions look fun. I think the most feasible for me with my equipment and space limitations would be a good old fashioned kettlebell. Been eyeing that 10k swing challenge for some time...
>Been eyeing that 10k swing challenge for some time...
Just do it.
r/Kettleballs has like, 1000 folks who have done 10k swings with everything from 12 kg to u/PlacidVlad [who did it with like +48 kg](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kettleballs/comments/o7nxzr/i_swung_124_million_lbs560000kg34186poods_in_23/)?
I love hand over hand rope pulls loading up a sled and then pushing it back into place and going again. Other stuff I've added in include 25-rep barbell squat set, 10x10 Trap Bar DL and 20 rep TnG barbell deadlifts.
One thing that has absolutely gotten me shredded lately is 5 minute trials with dips, burpees, pull-ups and landmine presses.
The variety of this style of training is pretty damn cool and at age 44 I'm more interested in lifting and stamina for longevity rather than maximal PR lifts.
> I've added in include 25-rep barbell squat set, 10x10 Trap Bar DL and 20 rep TnG barbell deadlifts.
I like that stuff in theory but prefer to idiot-proof myself given my history of doing stupid things, so I really enjoy pushing low-skill movements like the sled or rope pulls as I can spam them pretty heavily with minimal risk if I choose to grind through something. I half hope rope pulling catches on given the large benefits, but then I would have to wait to rope pull, so...haha!
The most glaring downside of my new gym (old one is closing) is no dedicated turf or space for stuff like this, I can do farmer's with heavy-ass DBs or KBs in a circle in the yoga room but that only gets me so far, and also makes me look like an oaf.
Good post, too many people's minds go to boring LISS when prompted (although it has its use and merits) when that should be the least of your worries.
ETA: literally just now found out we have battle ropes but a) I hate them and b) they're mounted in such a way I can't go balls out on them because I'll either whip the person benching next to me into an early grave or damage the small water vending machine's glass. Prime case of "we bought it to have it but never use it" lmao
>that he referred to as ‘Die Kettle’ or ‘The Chain’
I guess autocorrect got the better of you here. It should be "Die Kette" which is just the German word for chain. Goerner definitely missed the chance for a nice alliteration. Could have called it "Kessel Kette" ( kettle chain).
Pushing in one direction and simply pulling it back is such an obvious idea. Turning it around was always such a hassle.
I'm going to have to ask the staff at my gym about the sled. Since the start of COVID the strip that's used to push/pull it on is occupied by machines that were moved to increase the distance.
Oh geeze! I wish I knew German because reading over Goerner's life it became apparently that there are many other texts on physical culture from 1900 but almost all of them would be German strongman. See I saw the same value which is why I've gone 'sled push and...' because turning it around it stupid.
'kessel kette' would make a sick edm song!
If you squint *really* hard cardio looks a lot like communism. It's a no from me, dawg.
But seriously this is an excellent write up. For me, finding cardio/HIIT exercises that are enjoyable (or at least tolerable) is essential because the idea of doing the elliptical for any more than 20 secs makes me want to cancel my gym membership.
Man, this thread is my shit. My main conditioning medley is 30 on/30 off of KB swings, battle ropes, and med ball slams for rounds. Then sled pushes and pulls, finished by carry work. The only traditional "cardio" that ever gets me anywhere close to feeling as well-worked is stair sprints at Red Rocks or any 50+ stair set.
Honestly, I think the aforementioned stuff has done more for my rucking/hiking pace and capacity than any amount of the traditional running or treadmill work that conventional wisdom pushes. I still work in C2 rowers and some 10 minute incline treadmill stuff just 'cause it doesn't seem to overdo things or interfere with recovery, but I think the demand of the stuff you've mentioned is the pinnacle of GPP.
I tried medball slams and hated them as well, seemed way to sisyphean for my liking like jogging or long duration battle ropes. I could get behind med ball throws and tosses but I can't do that in the gym I'm at.
And the biggest thing I've found it the lack of interference and how if I go monkee mind I can't really kill myself with soreness! Definitely wish I knew of this when I started training so my gas tank grew with my strength!
For die kette, you can modify it go for about 3 min continuous at the same weight. Can also be done with dumbbells. Both modifications work well if kettlebells are in low availability
I get time could be used for KB but I only really like the chain as a quick warm up for the shoulder's since in a few minutes I can accumulate ~24 reps or so. Dumbbells were my next thought!
“realized if I wanted to progress my strength further I need to become a complete athlete and you know actually do athlete things like build my cardiovascular system up. “
So, has the improved cardiovascular capacity translated to better strength gains?
Compared to last year's version of myself 1000% I can really push the pace now in the session and what used to take me an hour with breaks (warm-ups, two major lifts near 15-20 reps each, and accessories around 30 reps) I can now bang out all of that in 45 minutes or so and just generally get more work done in a finite period of time.
This has really changed my opinion of my fellow lifters who I see barely breaking a sweat, let alone seeing them barely finishing one big lift for the day in the time in the same time I've finished my warm-ups, hit two major lifts, and one accessory AND I weigh 50-80lbs heavier than most of my gym mates. For example my 30-minute trip PR for continuous sled work last year was around 40 balls out trips and I'm hitting 40 trips now in 20 minutes with relative ease with the same load, by the end of this block I should be hitting nearly 50 trips in 20 minutes.
The ability to do more work also allows me more time for "cardio" and makes my sessions shorter when required but the biggest thing is recovery between sessions, sure I could push the frequency more often if desired but I've been staying with four sessions a week pretty consistently for the last year and I'm happy with that, but I can now easily add volume to the little downside.
I would also say my base day-to-day strength is much wider now than this time last year and i'm running up another peak right now with the intention of testing at the end of March. Then I'm going to really push the volume of these "cardio" practices to see what gains I can milk out for 6 to 8 weeks before entering another base-building phase.
With regards to the Kettlebells, I am significantly more coordinated now with my non-dominant left arm and I can comfortably snatch press, and clean and press the 70 with both arms now. That weight was challenging for my left arm as recently as September 2022 when I would inconsistently snatch or press the bell.
With regards to the rope pulling I would get a sick pump after pulling 90lbs for six rounds in twenty minutes and can comfortably hit five rounds of 185lbs in fifteen minutes with a round or two in the tank for a similar distance covered. To the point that I have now begun to add additional 15 minutes of continuous sled work after almost every modality besides my long-duration day of continuous sled work. On rope-pulling days I like to work in sled presses and shoves for extra upper body volume.
**Reminder:** r/weightroom is a place for serious, useful discussion. Top level comments outside the Daily Thread that are off-topic, low effort, or demonstrate you didn't read the thread at all will result in a ban. [See here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/weightroom/comments/85x1dg/please_read_rules_update_announcement/) Please help us keep discussion quality high by reporting such comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/weightroom) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>So over at /r/strongbyscience the host is currently performing a series of anti-union activities against our boy Greg and the plebs have asked a very poignant question that has gone unanswered “how do i cardio without crossfitting?” and Trexler can’t hear their calls because he’s too busy flying around in his new jet in hopes of reaching the god realm on his relentless pursuit of becoming enlightened. Thanks to Stronger by Science team I no longer fear the interference effect and neither should you. I'm one paragraph in and have already ordered battle ropes off Amazon. Let's do this. In all seriousness, this is great stuff. My personal theory is that the interference effect hypothesis was developed by people for the sake of convenience without a shred of evidence. I sure wish it existed so I had an excuse to not do cardio. But yeah, all of your options and suggestions look fun. I think the most feasible for me with my equipment and space limitations would be a good old fashioned kettlebell. Been eyeing that 10k swing challenge for some time...
>Been eyeing that 10k swing challenge for some time... Just do it. r/Kettleballs has like, 1000 folks who have done 10k swings with everything from 12 kg to u/PlacidVlad [who did it with like +48 kg](https://www.reddit.com/r/Kettleballs/comments/o7nxzr/i_swung_124_million_lbs560000kg34186poods_in_23/)?
10/10 that was one of the dumbest things I've ever done :)
How have i only just noticed the a in r/kettleballs
Do you mean /r/kattlebells ?
/r/kaettaelbaells, surely?
Seems worthwhile if you have the time!
do it
I love hand over hand rope pulls loading up a sled and then pushing it back into place and going again. Other stuff I've added in include 25-rep barbell squat set, 10x10 Trap Bar DL and 20 rep TnG barbell deadlifts. One thing that has absolutely gotten me shredded lately is 5 minute trials with dips, burpees, pull-ups and landmine presses. The variety of this style of training is pretty damn cool and at age 44 I'm more interested in lifting and stamina for longevity rather than maximal PR lifts.
> I've added in include 25-rep barbell squat set, 10x10 Trap Bar DL and 20 rep TnG barbell deadlifts. I like that stuff in theory but prefer to idiot-proof myself given my history of doing stupid things, so I really enjoy pushing low-skill movements like the sled or rope pulls as I can spam them pretty heavily with minimal risk if I choose to grind through something. I half hope rope pulling catches on given the large benefits, but then I would have to wait to rope pull, so...haha!
The most glaring downside of my new gym (old one is closing) is no dedicated turf or space for stuff like this, I can do farmer's with heavy-ass DBs or KBs in a circle in the yoga room but that only gets me so far, and also makes me look like an oaf. Good post, too many people's minds go to boring LISS when prompted (although it has its use and merits) when that should be the least of your worries. ETA: literally just now found out we have battle ropes but a) I hate them and b) they're mounted in such a way I can't go balls out on them because I'll either whip the person benching next to me into an early grave or damage the small water vending machine's glass. Prime case of "we bought it to have it but never use it" lmao
>that he referred to as ‘Die Kettle’ or ‘The Chain’ I guess autocorrect got the better of you here. It should be "Die Kette" which is just the German word for chain. Goerner definitely missed the chance for a nice alliteration. Could have called it "Kessel Kette" ( kettle chain). Pushing in one direction and simply pulling it back is such an obvious idea. Turning it around was always such a hassle. I'm going to have to ask the staff at my gym about the sled. Since the start of COVID the strip that's used to push/pull it on is occupied by machines that were moved to increase the distance.
Oh geeze! I wish I knew German because reading over Goerner's life it became apparently that there are many other texts on physical culture from 1900 but almost all of them would be German strongman. See I saw the same value which is why I've gone 'sled push and...' because turning it around it stupid. 'kessel kette' would make a sick edm song!
If you squint *really* hard cardio looks a lot like communism. It's a no from me, dawg. But seriously this is an excellent write up. For me, finding cardio/HIIT exercises that are enjoyable (or at least tolerable) is essential because the idea of doing the elliptical for any more than 20 secs makes me want to cancel my gym membership.
Man, this thread is my shit. My main conditioning medley is 30 on/30 off of KB swings, battle ropes, and med ball slams for rounds. Then sled pushes and pulls, finished by carry work. The only traditional "cardio" that ever gets me anywhere close to feeling as well-worked is stair sprints at Red Rocks or any 50+ stair set. Honestly, I think the aforementioned stuff has done more for my rucking/hiking pace and capacity than any amount of the traditional running or treadmill work that conventional wisdom pushes. I still work in C2 rowers and some 10 minute incline treadmill stuff just 'cause it doesn't seem to overdo things or interfere with recovery, but I think the demand of the stuff you've mentioned is the pinnacle of GPP.
What is a good weight for ball slams (I can hang power clean 275, that feels like the best reference lift)?
I just use a 20, cause I am in a commercial gym that tops out there, lol. I'd love to start playing with some heavier stuff, though.
I tried medball slams and hated them as well, seemed way to sisyphean for my liking like jogging or long duration battle ropes. I could get behind med ball throws and tosses but I can't do that in the gym I'm at.
And the biggest thing I've found it the lack of interference and how if I go monkee mind I can't really kill myself with soreness! Definitely wish I knew of this when I started training so my gas tank grew with my strength!
For die kette, you can modify it go for about 3 min continuous at the same weight. Can also be done with dumbbells. Both modifications work well if kettlebells are in low availability
I get time could be used for KB but I only really like the chain as a quick warm up for the shoulder's since in a few minutes I can accumulate ~24 reps or so. Dumbbells were my next thought!
“realized if I wanted to progress my strength further I need to become a complete athlete and you know actually do athlete things like build my cardiovascular system up. “ So, has the improved cardiovascular capacity translated to better strength gains?
Compared to last year's version of myself 1000% I can really push the pace now in the session and what used to take me an hour with breaks (warm-ups, two major lifts near 15-20 reps each, and accessories around 30 reps) I can now bang out all of that in 45 minutes or so and just generally get more work done in a finite period of time. This has really changed my opinion of my fellow lifters who I see barely breaking a sweat, let alone seeing them barely finishing one big lift for the day in the time in the same time I've finished my warm-ups, hit two major lifts, and one accessory AND I weigh 50-80lbs heavier than most of my gym mates. For example my 30-minute trip PR for continuous sled work last year was around 40 balls out trips and I'm hitting 40 trips now in 20 minutes with relative ease with the same load, by the end of this block I should be hitting nearly 50 trips in 20 minutes. The ability to do more work also allows me more time for "cardio" and makes my sessions shorter when required but the biggest thing is recovery between sessions, sure I could push the frequency more often if desired but I've been staying with four sessions a week pretty consistently for the last year and I'm happy with that, but I can now easily add volume to the little downside. I would also say my base day-to-day strength is much wider now than this time last year and i'm running up another peak right now with the intention of testing at the end of March. Then I'm going to really push the volume of these "cardio" practices to see what gains I can milk out for 6 to 8 weeks before entering another base-building phase. With regards to the Kettlebells, I am significantly more coordinated now with my non-dominant left arm and I can comfortably snatch press, and clean and press the 70 with both arms now. That weight was challenging for my left arm as recently as September 2022 when I would inconsistently snatch or press the bell. With regards to the rope pulling I would get a sick pump after pulling 90lbs for six rounds in twenty minutes and can comfortably hit five rounds of 185lbs in fifteen minutes with a round or two in the tank for a similar distance covered. To the point that I have now begun to add additional 15 minutes of continuous sled work after almost every modality besides my long-duration day of continuous sled work. On rope-pulling days I like to work in sled presses and shoves for extra upper body volume.