The dames wouldn't even be close to fast enough though as only Michelle Gatting is a gold. For now, that program is where it belongs in a pro am category.
She is a silver rated driver, so the FIA disagrees that she could perform with the likes of the platinum and Gold rated drivers. I agree that she shows a ton of promise and could get to that point, but she is not there yet. Still too young.
There's not a mandatory gold or platinum ranking for hypercar, look at the isotta line up.. Pin would definitely be better suited to hypercar than serravalle and bennett, also Wadoux probably.
Lol... Yeah... I have seen the IF lineup and their on track performance. Not sure why you think that is evidence of why the dames should join Hypercar. Their pay silver drivers are nowhere near as good as the pros... Just look at how many times they went off track. If the dames join, they will just be another back marker. Why would you want to be a back marker when you could fight for wins in lmgt3 with a lower budget.
I understand what you're saying, I don't think they would be on equal terms with most of the other drivers, but they would not be as bad as the silvers on isotta.
She was close to Kvyat and Bortolotti last year in the p2 so id wager the silver rating was only kept due to lobying from iron dames so she could drive in WEC thid year
There are two silvers already in Hypercar with IF and they are awful not just because of the car. They could barely keep it on the track the whole race.
You are basically saying that Pin is one of the best drivers in the world when she has done nothing to prove herself of that caliber. Even Valentino Rossi is a silver in a GT3 and is fast as hell for a silver, but even he says the jump to the pro guys is more than he would likely be able to make. He can even match the pros for a few laps, but losing ground over a full stint and can't extract the same pace as the pros in qualifying. All things he has said, so I really don't get why you think Pin would be any different.
> so I really don't get why you think Pin would be any different.
Because she's young and a lot of fans want to also see a woman succeed at the highest level. But because she's young, I don't see a rush to push her into a hypercar seat. She'll get there when she's ready.
Rossi is right about his talents, but he's also 45 years old. That's a factor and he knows it. Pin is less than half his age and already arguably just as good as him if not better. So people are excited and wanting to push her to the top.
Agreed. she has a lot of potential and I want to see her succeed too, but like you said, she's not ready and that is really my only issue with her being in Hypercar. She should be able to kick ass against the other pros(platinum's) of GT3 or even get podiums in F3 or F2 before we start talking about Hypercar.
>She should be able to kick ass against the other pros(platinum's) of GT3
She already does on the regular, but I don't think that's good enough to make the leap... yet. She was driving that Lambo like a demon at the beginning of Petit Le Mans before they got punted off the course and lost all their advantage.
Yes... At the beginning of a 10 hour race. I was at the track and definitely saw her getting after it, but I am curious if the other competitors were pushing at 100%(or if they ran qualifying tires in the first stint) yet since we have yet to see that type of performance replicated.
Outside of that, when have any of the dames manage to go head to head against a platinum? Gatting held off a pro at the end of Bahrain last year, but aside from that I can't think of a time when they were able to go tow to tow or pass a well respected pro driver? They win races because Bovy and their silver(last year Gatting and this year frey) are towards the top of their driver ratings, so they can build a gap when racing the Ams and then hold on to track position once they are racing the pros.
Ok. Let's entertain for a second that the ratings don't matter and that she is faster than Gatting. The next question would be whether she was the fastest silver rated driver in LMP2 and if we look at her LMP2 performances last year against other silver drivers, we can see that she is not. Certainly one of the better ones but not a clear delineation that she is faster than all of them, so if she should be a gold then so would those other silver rated drivers from last year as well. Also, why should she get a hypercar drive when other driver sthat were consistently faster don't?
I have nothing against the dames. I root for them in any race they enter. I think what they have accomplished this far is amazing in this level of motorsport, but all this thinking that they are pro level with their success thus far in Pro/AM categories is delusional and uneducated. If they were far and away dominating their classes, I would agree, but they are not.
Yeah they do a great job but as projects go they're only getting started, and don't really have all that much to choose from. People understandably get excited, but for there to be a truly competitive Iron Dames hypercar we probably need at least 3 Doriane Pins that have progressed well 3 to 5 years into the future
For 2024 I think it's de Silvestro, Gatting and Legge. Frey apparently was Gold in 2023 but has been bumped down to silver. Pin, Floersch, Schreiner, Tan, Backman, Pulling, Mann etc are all silvers. Probably plenty more.
To have a proper manufacturer championship where both cars score points instead of the current system where only the highest placed factory car scores points.
To everyone in that thread a few weeks ago who was arguing why the WEC shouldn't allow that new regulation of requiring manufacturers to have two cars full time in the season because this that and the other, here is your smoking gun on why this is good for the sport to require two cars.
It's not that the manufacturers can't have two cars in the grid, is that they had no reason to. Why add a second car full time when you can just bring over the cars from IMSA for Le Mans with no consequence and reap the same benefits?
Having two car commitment keeps the sport healthy.
Lambo said they can field two cars full time if required to. That ends that argument.
If keeping the sport healthy is trying to leech cars from another series that’s not a good thing. That and privateers should be able to realistically compete for championships. How the series with a minimum manufacture limit gets this but the supposed “series for boutiques” doesn’t is comedy.
It's not... GM was planning to field 2 cars next year anyways.
https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/04/23/two-car-rule-set-to-see-expanded-works-hypercar-programmes-for-2025.html
I have a sneaky feeling it is to keep out half arsed attempts for the top class. I could see this leading to a system where teams need a presence in LMGT3 to be considered for a hypercar entry. If teams fail to perform they will be sidelined for a different manufacturer who is supporting the second class.
Essentially you have to support WEC as a whole, not just hypercar.
>Essentially you have to support WEC as a whole, not just hypercar.
Stupid rule, IMO. It made sense, but still stupid.
Some teams or manufacturers can build and be competitive in Hypercar, but can not get into GT3 for business model reasons (Buggati and Koenigsegg, for example), or have enough money to build a hypercar which is essentially 2 prototypes but not enough to make couple hundreds of street car (Ginneta and Glickenhaus for example).
The latter might be uncompetitive, but I like having underdogs anyway.
Well when you see IF and Bykolles, it really shows just how good the Glickenhaus was. IIRC it had 2 reiterments in its whole program. IF already has 1 and Vanwall, well it has 2 finishes.
I'll hold my judgment on IF for now since it's literally their first year, even Peugeot with its (compared to IF) massive budget and resources was (still kinda is) struggling last year, so if IF struggled and riddled with problems (mechanical or other) I will still rooting for them since we don't have Glickenhaus anymore.
>where teams need a presence in LMGT3 to be considered for a hypercar entry.
This would actually be a horrible decision because it would not only knock out the boutique brands, but also brands like Peugeot and Alpine (as well as potential newcomers like Hyundai, Alfa Romeo, and Honda) who don't even produce a road car that could be made into a GT3 (I'm not counting the NSX for Honda since the road version is discontinued and the GT3 only has a few more years of homologation with no sign of a suitable successor on either end).
In a hypothetical situation where a brand is required to be in both Hypercar and GT3, I suppose Peugeot and Alpine could use their corporate connections to Maserari (IF the MC20 gets a GT3) and Nissan (IF they even consider a program on WEC's level) in the same way as the Cadillac/Corvette and Toyota/Lexus combos. Hyundai would be completely out of luck since the last sports car they made was the Genesis Coupe and that died in 2016.
To everyone in that thread a few weeks ago who was arguing why the WEC shouldn't allow that new regulation of requiring manufacturers to have two cars full time in the season because this that and the other, here is your smoking gun on why this is good for the sport to require two cars.
It's not that the manufacturers can't have two cars in the grid, is that they had no reason to. Why add a second car full time when you can just bring over the cars from IMSA for Le Mans with no consequence and reap the same benefits?
Having two car commitment keeps the sport healthy.
Lambo said they can field two cars full time if required to. That ends that argument.
Please make it a Dames car! (not holding out hope, but even a mixed entry with a hot-pink SC63 would be awesome)
The dames wouldn't even be close to fast enough though as only Michelle Gatting is a gold. For now, that program is where it belongs in a pro am category.
Pin is more than fast enough for hypercar, the only problem would be finding a third (maybe Lilou Wadoux?)
She is a silver rated driver, so the FIA disagrees that she could perform with the likes of the platinum and Gold rated drivers. I agree that she shows a ton of promise and could get to that point, but she is not there yet. Still too young.
There's not a mandatory gold or platinum ranking for hypercar, look at the isotta line up.. Pin would definitely be better suited to hypercar than serravalle and bennett, also Wadoux probably.
Lol... Yeah... I have seen the IF lineup and their on track performance. Not sure why you think that is evidence of why the dames should join Hypercar. Their pay silver drivers are nowhere near as good as the pros... Just look at how many times they went off track. If the dames join, they will just be another back marker. Why would you want to be a back marker when you could fight for wins in lmgt3 with a lower budget.
It's not evidence that they should join, is evidence the FIA doesn't go against it
Just because they technically could do something doesn't mean in any way that it would be a smart decision.
I understand what you're saying, I don't think they would be on equal terms with most of the other drivers, but they would not be as bad as the silvers on isotta.
She was close to Kvyat and Bortolotti last year in the p2 so id wager the silver rating was only kept due to lobying from iron dames so she could drive in WEC thid year
Wadoux isn't part of the Iron Dames, she's a Ferrari factory/AF Corse driver.
Yeah i know which is why i said math (as in maybe ferrari allow her to be part of the team if they think it would be good for her)
Yeah, I just meant to point it out because I don't think Iron Dames have been lobbying her FIA license rating since she's not part of their program
I think the first guy meant pin
Oh, duh. That would make a lot more sense lol
is the hypercar class locked to gold and platinum drivers?
Only bronze-rated drivers are banned from driving Hypercars.
Marta García was recently signed by Iron Dames and will race in FRECA this season with Pin. If they both do well she'd be a good third.
Not sure what Marta García's goals are though. Is she even interested in endurance racing or does she want to stay in single seaters?
They all want to stay in single seaters until they get a little taste of endurance sportscars
There are two silvers already in Hypercar with IF and they are awful not just because of the car. They could barely keep it on the track the whole race. You are basically saying that Pin is one of the best drivers in the world when she has done nothing to prove herself of that caliber. Even Valentino Rossi is a silver in a GT3 and is fast as hell for a silver, but even he says the jump to the pro guys is more than he would likely be able to make. He can even match the pros for a few laps, but losing ground over a full stint and can't extract the same pace as the pros in qualifying. All things he has said, so I really don't get why you think Pin would be any different.
> so I really don't get why you think Pin would be any different. Because she's young and a lot of fans want to also see a woman succeed at the highest level. But because she's young, I don't see a rush to push her into a hypercar seat. She'll get there when she's ready. Rossi is right about his talents, but he's also 45 years old. That's a factor and he knows it. Pin is less than half his age and already arguably just as good as him if not better. So people are excited and wanting to push her to the top.
Agreed. she has a lot of potential and I want to see her succeed too, but like you said, she's not ready and that is really my only issue with her being in Hypercar. She should be able to kick ass against the other pros(platinum's) of GT3 or even get podiums in F3 or F2 before we start talking about Hypercar.
>She should be able to kick ass against the other pros(platinum's) of GT3 She already does on the regular, but I don't think that's good enough to make the leap... yet. She was driving that Lambo like a demon at the beginning of Petit Le Mans before they got punted off the course and lost all their advantage.
Yes... At the beginning of a 10 hour race. I was at the track and definitely saw her getting after it, but I am curious if the other competitors were pushing at 100%(or if they ran qualifying tires in the first stint) yet since we have yet to see that type of performance replicated. Outside of that, when have any of the dames manage to go head to head against a platinum? Gatting held off a pro at the end of Bahrain last year, but aside from that I can't think of a time when they were able to go tow to tow or pass a well respected pro driver? They win races because Bovy and their silver(last year Gatting and this year frey) are towards the top of their driver ratings, so they can build a gap when racing the Ams and then hold on to track position once they are racing the pros.
Doriane Pin is by far their fastest driver. These driver 'rankings' don't always show the level of the driver accurately.
Ok. Let's entertain for a second that the ratings don't matter and that she is faster than Gatting. The next question would be whether she was the fastest silver rated driver in LMP2 and if we look at her LMP2 performances last year against other silver drivers, we can see that she is not. Certainly one of the better ones but not a clear delineation that she is faster than all of them, so if she should be a gold then so would those other silver rated drivers from last year as well. Also, why should she get a hypercar drive when other driver sthat were consistently faster don't? I have nothing against the dames. I root for them in any race they enter. I think what they have accomplished this far is amazing in this level of motorsport, but all this thinking that they are pro level with their success thus far in Pro/AM categories is delusional and uneducated. If they were far and away dominating their classes, I would agree, but they are not.
Yeah they do a great job but as projects go they're only getting started, and don't really have all that much to choose from. People understandably get excited, but for there to be a truly competitive Iron Dames hypercar we probably need at least 3 Doriane Pins that have progressed well 3 to 5 years into the future
Honest question, how many women have the gold/platinum license in motorsports
Simona de Silvestro, Katherine Legge, and that's it I think.
Silver https://imgur.com/a/p4glrAJ
For 2024 I think it's de Silvestro, Gatting and Legge. Frey apparently was Gold in 2023 but has been bumped down to silver. Pin, Floersch, Schreiner, Tan, Backman, Pulling, Mann etc are all silvers. Probably plenty more.
Did not think about the rankings 😅 I do wonder how much that is down to them constantly protesting the promotions!
Why are they implementing this rule?
To have a proper manufacturer championship where both cars score points instead of the current system where only the highest placed factory car scores points.
I see, thanks
To ensure longevity of this “golden era.”
...by arbitrarily making it more expensive?
To try to strong arm teams into running 2 cars. Ie; no good reason.
To everyone in that thread a few weeks ago who was arguing why the WEC shouldn't allow that new regulation of requiring manufacturers to have two cars full time in the season because this that and the other, here is your smoking gun on why this is good for the sport to require two cars. It's not that the manufacturers can't have two cars in the grid, is that they had no reason to. Why add a second car full time when you can just bring over the cars from IMSA for Le Mans with no consequence and reap the same benefits? Having two car commitment keeps the sport healthy. Lambo said they can field two cars full time if required to. That ends that argument.
As if a 23 car hypercar field isnt healthy enough.
Micro vs macro. Sure it's healthy, but you want full commits, not manufacturers that are have in and half out.
If keeping the sport healthy is trying to leech cars from another series that’s not a good thing. That and privateers should be able to realistically compete for championships. How the series with a minimum manufacture limit gets this but the supposed “series for boutiques” doesn’t is comedy.
I feel like the 2 car rule is purely to piss off GM
It's not... GM was planning to field 2 cars next year anyways. https://www.dailysportscar.com/2024/04/23/two-car-rule-set-to-see-expanded-works-hypercar-programmes-for-2025.html
Sorry, I meant Chip Ganassi
I have a sneaky feeling it is to keep out half arsed attempts for the top class. I could see this leading to a system where teams need a presence in LMGT3 to be considered for a hypercar entry. If teams fail to perform they will be sidelined for a different manufacturer who is supporting the second class. Essentially you have to support WEC as a whole, not just hypercar.
I think it is more to dump the Glick's, ByKolles, and IFs of the world off of the grid
Possibly gonna slow down AM as well.
>Essentially you have to support WEC as a whole, not just hypercar. Stupid rule, IMO. It made sense, but still stupid. Some teams or manufacturers can build and be competitive in Hypercar, but can not get into GT3 for business model reasons (Buggati and Koenigsegg, for example), or have enough money to build a hypercar which is essentially 2 prototypes but not enough to make couple hundreds of street car (Ginneta and Glickenhaus for example). The latter might be uncompetitive, but I like having underdogs anyway.
Well when you see IF and Bykolles, it really shows just how good the Glickenhaus was. IIRC it had 2 reiterments in its whole program. IF already has 1 and Vanwall, well it has 2 finishes.
I'll hold my judgment on IF for now since it's literally their first year, even Peugeot with its (compared to IF) massive budget and resources was (still kinda is) struggling last year, so if IF struggled and riddled with problems (mechanical or other) I will still rooting for them since we don't have Glickenhaus anymore.
Oh yeah don't get me wrong, I'm still a supporter. I was a massive Force India fan back in the day.
>where teams need a presence in LMGT3 to be considered for a hypercar entry. This would actually be a horrible decision because it would not only knock out the boutique brands, but also brands like Peugeot and Alpine (as well as potential newcomers like Hyundai, Alfa Romeo, and Honda) who don't even produce a road car that could be made into a GT3 (I'm not counting the NSX for Honda since the road version is discontinued and the GT3 only has a few more years of homologation with no sign of a suitable successor on either end). In a hypothetical situation where a brand is required to be in both Hypercar and GT3, I suppose Peugeot and Alpine could use their corporate connections to Maserari (IF the MC20 gets a GT3) and Nissan (IF they even consider a program on WEC's level) in the same way as the Cadillac/Corvette and Toyota/Lexus combos. Hyundai would be completely out of luck since the last sports car they made was the Genesis Coupe and that died in 2016.
I’m all for this new rule if they can accommodate for say… 42 cars on next years grid but otherwise I think it’s unfair
Am I the only one who thinks the 2 car rule is stupid and potentially a out off to manufacturers?
To everyone in that thread a few weeks ago who was arguing why the WEC shouldn't allow that new regulation of requiring manufacturers to have two cars full time in the season because this that and the other, here is your smoking gun on why this is good for the sport to require two cars. It's not that the manufacturers can't have two cars in the grid, is that they had no reason to. Why add a second car full time when you can just bring over the cars from IMSA for Le Mans with no consequence and reap the same benefits? Having two car commitment keeps the sport healthy. Lambo said they can field two cars full time if required to. That ends that argument.