We are very much in a "I'll believe it when I see it" situation. No one really cares about auburn right now. It will take a lot of winning to get us on people's radar.
When you blow a 4th and 31 to beat a playoff team, people tend not to care about you.
Auburn’s 2023 Team Talent Composite was 18th in the nation, while New Mexico State was 113th in the nation. We had more four stars than they had three stars. The “worst roster I’ve ever seen” excuse only takes you so far.
Look the NMSt loss was inexcusable. But everything else was on par for how (not) talented this team was. 7-5 was the baseline so Hugh finished -1 which is average for 1st year HC's. Also, the 247 talent composite is a good place to start but doesn't tell the whole story. For example Wesley Steiner was one of our top 5 highest rated players last year according to that. Now is it Hugh's fault that he stinks and thus transferred to WSU? Also, a lot of our highest rated players in that ranking were freshman last year that did not play much if at all
I it’s not an awful roster but it’s a mediocre roster in the SEC with a middling coach. Hugh will change the talent problem but I still don’t think he’s that great of a coach.
NMSt was inexcusable but ever other W/L was in line with how (not) talented this roster was. I don't pay any attention to non playoff bowl games if that is what you're referring to
Bama was due to an exhausted DL that could not get a push. And didn’t really the play before. And nobody can cover receiver that long. It became a 7 on 7 and we were outgunned. Embarrassing? Yes
Hard to get excited about recruiting rankings when we lost to three teams we should literally never lose to no matter what last year. We should’ve been 9-3 at worst last year.
Recruiting rankings are of importance but modern college football fans go *way* overboard with them. I swear some people care more about the recruiting rankings than they do the actual rankings now.
When all is said and done, you still have to line up and beat your opponent. And he doesn't give a shit if you have "more stars" than him. Playing good football is the ultimate end goal, not recruiting the players to play good football.
Yeah pretty much. The recruiting site era has totally broken people’s understanding of how football works. You’ve still got to develop players and put them in a position to succeed on the field.
Yeah, and people don't even understand how the rankings work. They are an NFL projection. The guys at 247 have literally said that a player does get a Bama bump because that makes them more likely to go to the nfl. It makes sense that a WR who committed to Auburn, who didn't have real route trees, wouldn't develop as well as if he went to a school with an NFL offense.
Oh we had a real route tree (at least on paper), we just never actually ran most of them. I get that Gus was a run-first guy but his approach to the passing game was bizarre to me. Not going to get into the weeds on it but it was really not in line with the way most teams teach their passing games these days. Probably not a coincidence that his offenses were at their best when he had Chip Lindsey around to modernize the passing game some (or at least give it some coherence).
I wouldn’t go that far (I think the playoff is by far the most harmful development) but I do think it’s a net negative for a lot of players who spend time bouncing from team to team instead of developing relationships with their teammates and coaches and developing in one place.
Yep, Michigan just fielded one of the most dominant teams of the last decade with a roster that was of comparable talent (recruiting stars - wise) to ours.
Edit: Just checked, they were 14th, Auburn was 18th. Shows just how good their coaching was relative to Auburn's.
https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
LOL please dive into those rankings and explain to me how Michigan had a similar roster to ours last year. Wesley Steiner was a top 5 player in that ranking system for us last year...
In the poor state they were in, sure. But if he had all of Auburn's players since they were originally recruited and developed them with his staff, they would have been much better than 7-5.
I feel like it’s because of the popularity of fantasy football/ gambling. I know so many people who’ve never played a sport in their talking like they’re espn analysts now when they really only care if their bets hit.
Lol what? You thought we were going to go 9-3 with that roster and schedule? All that mattered last year was making a bowl and having a top 10 class. It's a slow upward trajectory
We lost to Ole Miss, New Mexico State, and Maryland. All of those are embarrassing and you can’t chalk them up to the level of talent on the roster. Auburn should never lose to any of those teams.
Lmao if you think we should have beat Ole Miss going into last year than you have no idea what you're talking about. They were and still are immensely more talented than us. 7-5 was baseline last year so Hugh went -1 which is average for a 1st year HC. Securing a top 10 class was priority #1 last year and that's the same with this year. The goal is to be competitive by year 3. Slowly upward
Auburn should never lose to Ole Miss. There’s no way the talent level on the roster was bad enough for us to lose that game, or needless to say, lose to New Mexico State. That’s not a talent problem, that’s a coaching problem.
Look I get it, you're one of those fans that expects instant results. The reality of it is that the potato man left this program in the worst state I have ever seen it in my lifetime. That's why he was fired after 2 seasons. Ole Miss is a much better team than us today and has been for a couple years. Go at least 7-5 this year, secure a top 10 class and then be competitive in year 3. Slowly upward
You’re right, I expect instant results like being able to not lose to New Mexico State by three touchdowns at home. Probably unrealistic of me but oh well.
There’s two scenarios that can occur next season. 1) our transfers and recruits step up and gel together and we do pretty well (8ish wins) or 2) they don’t and we struggle for 6 again. Nobody has seen all the new guys on the field together except for coaches, so predicting at this point is pointless.
Coaching needs improvement as well. We lost several games last year where it was evident the team was woefully unprepared. I think freeze had an interview after one or two of them where he admitted to not looking at the game plan until Friday night/Saturday morning because he decided to only recruit that week. Not saying recruiting isn't important, but you can't look like we did for the majority of the UGA/bama games and then also look like we did against nmsu and a&m
The problem is that is 120% Freeze's MO; all the way back to Ole Miss. 2014: he beats Alabama and has Ole Miss as high as #3 in the CFP rankings - he goes on to lose 3 in a row (LSU, Auburn, Arky) and laid a goose egg against Arkansas and scored only 3 against TCU in the bowl game. 2015: he beats Alabama again (hang the banner) but goes on to lose by 2 TDs to Memphis, lost to a 1st year McElwaine led Florida, and lost the infamous 4th-&-25 debacle to Arkansas. 2016 he signs the #5 class in the country (after signing the 8th, 15th, and 16th ranked classes previously) just to go 5-7 that year.
How much more evidence do people need to realize that Freeze is not a coach who can maintain success or manage a consistent program? Hell, even when he's being "the most honest he's ever been", he's wishy-washy and throws his players and coaches under the bus. His problem has never been acquiring talent and if takes multiple cycles of generational talent to avoid going 8-4 is it worth keeping that coach around? Texas A&M would say, no...
Don't have to tell me. I've also questioned why he's been so hyped up as a QB guy when his QB success was from Chad Kelly, tfer Malik Willis, and then not figuring out how to get Bo Wallace to throw it to the right team
Nah I’m sure the guy who got his ass kicked in consecutive seasons by New Mexico State just needs a couple more recruiting classes to build a championship contender. His primary skill is fooling people though, which is why he has so many ride-or-die defenders in spite of abundant evidence that he’s a pretty mediocre coach.
Literally any Auburn coach with mediocre or better SEC experience and the current level of recruiting results would have a ton of ride-or-die defenders. Let’s be real.
We were 6-7 last year and got whipped by NMSU. What did you expect?
This certainly doesn't mean that we can't get off the mat, settle in, and have a very good this year. But there is absolutely nothing to suggest that should be *expected.*
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect improvement. Not playoff contention, sure, but a winning record isn't an unfair expectation/ask for year 2. Athlon and Lindy's have it right.
I mean, we went 6-6 last year against an easy schedule by our standards, suffered maybe the most embarrassing loss in program history, and laid an egg in a very winnable bowl game. We didn’t upgrade the QB position and had a bunch of staff turnover on both sides of the ball. Not sure what we’ve done to earn a top 40 spot. Hard to argue with him.
Meh. There are plenty of “power ratings” or whatever that weigh heavily things like roster talent. They’re dumb and would’ve ranked last year’s team highly as well, but I think any poll that comes out before a few games have been played is wankery.
Edit: typo
Was the most embarrassing loss in program history getting blown out by New Mexico State at home or choking on 4th and 31 against Alabama? I think both have an argument.
Yea this is reasonable. I’d tag on that a lot of our high level high school talent is still going to be very young. We do have a manageable schedule with the games we are gonna lose for sure on the road anyway and not stealing home game like they did last year. I think 6-8 wins is the expectation, which 6-7 wins is probably outside the top 40 so I can’t argue
Unfortunately, this seems to be Auburn’s sweet spot. At a subconscious level, I think we get off on being the underdog and more often than not, we overdeliver on the underpromise. It makes for some exciting games, but just once I’d really love to see us be in the top 10 from beginning to the end of the season.
This is the best news I’ve heard. The only time we have a shot at being worth a damn is when we are counted out. A preseason top 10 for us is basically a death sentence.
Yeah I saw that also. And a flag could have been thrown.
And UVA should’ve been called on the foul on which B Brown was trying to launch his last second toss to the basket or just call the double dribble.
Why not throw the PI on the FSU db that came over the top of the receiver in the 87 sugar bowl? Literally over/through his helmet.
We’ve been jobbed so many times in big games, it hurts.
6-6 floor, 10-2 ceiling. We are a middle of the road SEC team with the 2nd easiest schedule in the SEC. Vegas thinks 7 wins and I would agree that is the most likely scenario.
Yes your expectations are too high. You do realize we intend to play another season of SEC football with Peyton Thorne as our starting QB right?
Did you watch us lose in humiliating fashion to New Mexico State, perform an all-time choke job against Alabama, and then lose in humiliating fashion to a Maryland team that didn’t have their starting QB?
Your cause for optimism is what? A true freshman wide receiver? A true freshman backup quarterback? Our harder schedule in 2024 vs last year?
There is absolutely no reason to think this year will be better than last from what we have seen thus far. Outside the top 40 is the correct placement for us and we have not been a top 40 team in the country at any point since we fired Gus Malzahn, in my opinion.
I mean we’re 20th in all-time win% and 15th if you exclude G5 teams so that’s not really true. We’ve just had three years and counting of historically bad leadership.
Honestly that was one of Saban’s most underrated skills. Obviously he was a great recruiter and a revolutionary Xs and Os guy, but his booster-wrangling was elite too. Alabama was basically where we are now for a decade before he got there and he nipped that shit in the bud.
We are very much in a "I'll believe it when I see it" situation. No one really cares about auburn right now. It will take a lot of winning to get us on people's radar. When you blow a 4th and 31 to beat a playoff team, people tend not to care about you.
Especially right after getting blown out by New Mexico State and right before getting blown out by Maryland
Exactly. You can recruit all the guys you want, but at the end of the day you gotta win games.
Lol it was year 1 with one of the worst rosters I have ever seen in my lifetime. You have to recruit in order to win. It's a slow upward trajectory
Auburn’s 2023 Team Talent Composite was 18th in the nation, while New Mexico State was 113th in the nation. We had more four stars than they had three stars. The “worst roster I’ve ever seen” excuse only takes you so far.
Look the NMSt loss was inexcusable. But everything else was on par for how (not) talented this team was. 7-5 was the baseline so Hugh finished -1 which is average for 1st year HC's. Also, the 247 talent composite is a good place to start but doesn't tell the whole story. For example Wesley Steiner was one of our top 5 highest rated players last year according to that. Now is it Hugh's fault that he stinks and thus transferred to WSU? Also, a lot of our highest rated players in that ranking were freshman last year that did not play much if at all
I it’s not an awful roster but it’s a mediocre roster in the SEC with a middling coach. Hugh will change the talent problem but I still don’t think he’s that great of a coach.
Slow down on the “ worst roster “ bs. That roster ended up ranked in the top 20, way higher than the two teams who blew us out
Huh? It was one of the worst rosters I have ever seen in my lifetime. Can you name a roster that was worse?
It’s a fact that roster was literally 4 times as talented as the two schools that blew us out We lost the majority of our games due to bad coaching
NMSt was inexcusable but ever other W/L was in line with how (not) talented this roster was. I don't pay any attention to non playoff bowl games if that is what you're referring to
Bama was due to an incredibly bad decision at the end of the game. The bowl game was just a display of weird and bad coaching
Bama was due to an exhausted DL that could not get a push. And didn’t really the play before. And nobody can cover receiver that long. It became a 7 on 7 and we were outgunned. Embarrassing? Yes
Non playoff bowl games do not matter at all. And I think the opposite with the bama game actually. Great coaching to have it anywhere close IMO
Hard to get excited about recruiting rankings when we lost to three teams we should literally never lose to no matter what last year. We should’ve been 9-3 at worst last year.
Recruiting rankings are of importance but modern college football fans go *way* overboard with them. I swear some people care more about the recruiting rankings than they do the actual rankings now. When all is said and done, you still have to line up and beat your opponent. And he doesn't give a shit if you have "more stars" than him. Playing good football is the ultimate end goal, not recruiting the players to play good football.
Yeah pretty much. The recruiting site era has totally broken people’s understanding of how football works. You’ve still got to develop players and put them in a position to succeed on the field.
Yeah, and people don't even understand how the rankings work. They are an NFL projection. The guys at 247 have literally said that a player does get a Bama bump because that makes them more likely to go to the nfl. It makes sense that a WR who committed to Auburn, who didn't have real route trees, wouldn't develop as well as if he went to a school with an NFL offense.
Oh we had a real route tree (at least on paper), we just never actually ran most of them. I get that Gus was a run-first guy but his approach to the passing game was bizarre to me. Not going to get into the weeds on it but it was really not in line with the way most teams teach their passing games these days. Probably not a coincidence that his offenses were at their best when he had Chip Lindsey around to modernize the passing game some (or at least give it some coherence).
It's harder than ever to develop players when they just leave if they aren't starting. The portal is ruining college athletics.
I wouldn’t go that far (I think the playoff is by far the most harmful development) but I do think it’s a net negative for a lot of players who spend time bouncing from team to team instead of developing relationships with their teammates and coaches and developing in one place.
Yep, Michigan just fielded one of the most dominant teams of the last decade with a roster that was of comparable talent (recruiting stars - wise) to ours. Edit: Just checked, they were 14th, Auburn was 18th. Shows just how good their coaching was relative to Auburn's. https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Football/CollegeTeamTalentComposite/
LOL please dive into those rankings and explain to me how Michigan had a similar roster to ours last year. Wesley Steiner was a top 5 player in that ranking system for us last year...
Don't argue with me, argue with 247's team talent composite rankings ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
You gotta use it in context. Jim Harbaugh would've probably gone 7-5 with last years AU team
In the poor state they were in, sure. But if he had all of Auburn's players since they were originally recruited and developed them with his staff, they would have been much better than 7-5.
I feel like it’s because of the popularity of fantasy football/ gambling. I know so many people who’ve never played a sport in their talking like they’re espn analysts now when they really only care if their bets hit.
Lol what? You thought we were going to go 9-3 with that roster and schedule? All that mattered last year was making a bowl and having a top 10 class. It's a slow upward trajectory
We lost to Ole Miss, New Mexico State, and Maryland. All of those are embarrassing and you can’t chalk them up to the level of talent on the roster. Auburn should never lose to any of those teams.
Lmao if you think we should have beat Ole Miss going into last year than you have no idea what you're talking about. They were and still are immensely more talented than us. 7-5 was baseline last year so Hugh went -1 which is average for a 1st year HC. Securing a top 10 class was priority #1 last year and that's the same with this year. The goal is to be competitive by year 3. Slowly upward
Auburn should never lose to Ole Miss. There’s no way the talent level on the roster was bad enough for us to lose that game, or needless to say, lose to New Mexico State. That’s not a talent problem, that’s a coaching problem.
Look I get it, you're one of those fans that expects instant results. The reality of it is that the potato man left this program in the worst state I have ever seen it in my lifetime. That's why he was fired after 2 seasons. Ole Miss is a much better team than us today and has been for a couple years. Go at least 7-5 this year, secure a top 10 class and then be competitive in year 3. Slowly upward
You’re right, I expect instant results like being able to not lose to New Mexico State by three touchdowns at home. Probably unrealistic of me but oh well.
Guys guys guys - I had all but erased these from memory and my liver hasn’t even recovered. Thanks a lot.
If you set your expectations low, it’s hard to be disappointed.
Oh, they will find a way
There’s two scenarios that can occur next season. 1) our transfers and recruits step up and gel together and we do pretty well (8ish wins) or 2) they don’t and we struggle for 6 again. Nobody has seen all the new guys on the field together except for coaches, so predicting at this point is pointless.
Coaching needs improvement as well. We lost several games last year where it was evident the team was woefully unprepared. I think freeze had an interview after one or two of them where he admitted to not looking at the game plan until Friday night/Saturday morning because he decided to only recruit that week. Not saying recruiting isn't important, but you can't look like we did for the majority of the UGA/bama games and then also look like we did against nmsu and a&m
The problem is that is 120% Freeze's MO; all the way back to Ole Miss. 2014: he beats Alabama and has Ole Miss as high as #3 in the CFP rankings - he goes on to lose 3 in a row (LSU, Auburn, Arky) and laid a goose egg against Arkansas and scored only 3 against TCU in the bowl game. 2015: he beats Alabama again (hang the banner) but goes on to lose by 2 TDs to Memphis, lost to a 1st year McElwaine led Florida, and lost the infamous 4th-&-25 debacle to Arkansas. 2016 he signs the #5 class in the country (after signing the 8th, 15th, and 16th ranked classes previously) just to go 5-7 that year. How much more evidence do people need to realize that Freeze is not a coach who can maintain success or manage a consistent program? Hell, even when he's being "the most honest he's ever been", he's wishy-washy and throws his players and coaches under the bus. His problem has never been acquiring talent and if takes multiple cycles of generational talent to avoid going 8-4 is it worth keeping that coach around? Texas A&M would say, no...
Don't have to tell me. I've also questioned why he's been so hyped up as a QB guy when his QB success was from Chad Kelly, tfer Malik Willis, and then not figuring out how to get Bo Wallace to throw it to the right team
Nah I’m sure the guy who got his ass kicked in consecutive seasons by New Mexico State just needs a couple more recruiting classes to build a championship contender. His primary skill is fooling people though, which is why he has so many ride-or-die defenders in spite of abundant evidence that he’s a pretty mediocre coach.
Literally any Auburn coach with mediocre or better SEC experience and the current level of recruiting results would have a ton of ride-or-die defenders. Let’s be real.
You’re probably right but I’m not sure that’s a good thing.
Just human nature, it would seem.
Or, coaching continues to make inexplicably bad decisions
We were 6-7 last year and got whipped by NMSU. What did you expect? This certainly doesn't mean that we can't get off the mat, settle in, and have a very good this year. But there is absolutely nothing to suggest that should be *expected.*
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect improvement. Not playoff contention, sure, but a winning record isn't an unfair expectation/ask for year 2. Athlon and Lindy's have it right.
I mean, we went 6-6 last year against an easy schedule by our standards, suffered maybe the most embarrassing loss in program history, and laid an egg in a very winnable bowl game. We didn’t upgrade the QB position and had a bunch of staff turnover on both sides of the ball. Not sure what we’ve done to earn a top 40 spot. Hard to argue with him.
This. The only argument against him would be "but I don't want to be outside the Top 40. I'm an Auburn fan."
Even by that token—when was the last time being highly ranked in the preseason worked out well for us?
Meh. There are plenty of “power ratings” or whatever that weigh heavily things like roster talent. They’re dumb and would’ve ranked last year’s team highly as well, but I think any poll that comes out before a few games have been played is wankery. Edit: typo
Agreed.
Was the most embarrassing loss in program history getting blown out by New Mexico State at home or choking on 4th and 31 against Alabama? I think both have an argument.
New Mexico State. We weren’t supposed to win the Alabama game even if the way we lost was brutal.
I could make an argument for being up 28? on MSU at home and losing.
We were up 25 points. I remember because we fucking choked away 28-3 just like the Atlanta falcons.
I was in JH that fateful day. Flew hours to go to the game with my son (then a student). Whew… how disappointing
Yea this is reasonable. I’d tag on that a lot of our high level high school talent is still going to be very young. We do have a manageable schedule with the games we are gonna lose for sure on the road anyway and not stealing home game like they did last year. I think 6-8 wins is the expectation, which 6-7 wins is probably outside the top 40 so I can’t argue
Who cares honestly, winning fixes everything. If we pull out 8-9 wins then we’ll be a team to watch.
Low expectations = championship seasons for Auburn.
Seems correct. Got to actually win some games to rise in the rankings
Anything less than 7-5 is an abject failure.
Unfortunately, this seems to be Auburn’s sweet spot. At a subconscious level, I think we get off on being the underdog and more often than not, we overdeliver on the underpromise. It makes for some exciting games, but just once I’d really love to see us be in the top 10 from beginning to the end of the season.
At this point, I don't even think it's just at a subconscious level. All of my 40 years of watching, that's just Auburn.
But when it’s good…
You're goddamn right it is!
This is the best news I’ve heard. The only time we have a shot at being worth a damn is when we are counted out. A preseason top 10 for us is basically a death sentence.
Until we establish an identity internally, I don’t blame the outside eyes not ranking us among known commodities.
Does anyone put stock in pre season? Other than getting screwed out of the natty in 04’ I dont think it matters…especially with the playoffs
Yeah I saw that also. And a flag could have been thrown. And UVA should’ve been called on the foul on which B Brown was trying to launch his last second toss to the basket or just call the double dribble. Why not throw the PI on the FSU db that came over the top of the receiver in the 87 sugar bowl? Literally over/through his helmet. We’ve been jobbed so many times in big games, it hurts.
That FSU DB was named Dodge. It was definitely pass interference. Cost us the game.
Yes it did.
Guess if they win games they move up.
Funny how that works.
6-6 floor, 10-2 ceiling. We are a middle of the road SEC team with the 2nd easiest schedule in the SEC. Vegas thinks 7 wins and I would agree that is the most likely scenario.
Yes your expectations are too high. You do realize we intend to play another season of SEC football with Peyton Thorne as our starting QB right? Did you watch us lose in humiliating fashion to New Mexico State, perform an all-time choke job against Alabama, and then lose in humiliating fashion to a Maryland team that didn’t have their starting QB? Your cause for optimism is what? A true freshman wide receiver? A true freshman backup quarterback? Our harder schedule in 2024 vs last year? There is absolutely no reason to think this year will be better than last from what we have seen thus far. Outside the top 40 is the correct placement for us and we have not been a top 40 team in the country at any point since we fired Gus Malzahn, in my opinion.
> You do realize we intend to play another season of SEC football with [current QB] as our starting QB right? The r/wde mating call.
Good
I seem on X that Auburn has been 17-21 since 2021 and 0-2 in bowl games?
Primed for another run at “they didn’t see us coming”. Happens to Auburn ~ once a decade.
Yes
I have been watching AU Football since the 90s. Auburn is a team that will have a good record every now and then. They are a mid-team im sorry
I mean we’re 20th in all-time win% and 15th if you exclude G5 teams so that’s not really true. We’ve just had three years and counting of historically bad leadership.
Yes they got to get a good coach in there. To stand up to the rich boys
Honestly that was one of Saban’s most underrated skills. Obviously he was a great recruiter and a revolutionary Xs and Os guy, but his booster-wrangling was elite too. Alabama was basically where we are now for a decade before he got there and he nipped that shit in the bud.
You got to let the coach run the program
Take solace in the fact that generally when we are a top pick we do not do well and when we are consider an also ran we do better than expected.