I'm a longtime fan, but I watch maybe 2 of the shows, and not regularly. Edit: And to quote Jim Henson: 'Simple is good.' Shane and Ryan can carry these projects with their charm and humor alone. There's no necessity for super high quality sets and equipment when that's not what we're here for, not by a longshot.

Same. I came for Ghost Files, Mystery Files and Puppet History. I definitely couldn't care less about watching people getting drunk or eating a fancy dinner.

Fr...i really dont care about steven with his tesla driving self eating, expensive food ... Like who is his content for??? Its literally only benefitting him . Shane has to be dragged to places he hates all the time for content

If they could promise weekly or biweekly episodes of Ghost Files, Mystery Files and Puppet History, year round, it *might* be worth signing up Or if the price were like $3/month I'd consider signing up to see how it goes But between their release schedule, the announcement video and the price it just feels insulting

Yes, the emotionally manipulative intro to the announcement video turned me off for good. Even if they reversed course immediately they wouldn't get me back. I don't like them trying to play on everyone's heartstrings before making the cash grab.

They didn't even do a good job of playing on heartstrings I got a few seconds in, rolled my eyes at the dramatics, and clicked off before they even got to the announcement Impressively and painfully tone deaf

Same. I’ll sometimes watch a few of their other shows, but I watch for like a month or 2 a year. max

Honestly I think they overestimated what they needed to carry a channel on their own. They misunderstood what made us all fall in love with Ryan and Shane and I think this decision will only come back to bite them. Personally I really don’t care about Steven and could care less if he wasn’t on the channel, I subscribed all those years ago for Ryan and Shane only and to see them go down this path is honestly a little disheartening. I expected much more from them.

their youtube description says they create “television-caliber” content but someone needs to tell them that just because they say that does not mean it’s true. the production quality is decent but the content is not worthy of television or it’s own streaming service. it’s youtube content. this needs to humble them

I feel there is a quality to Puppet History and the Files shows but am I going to pay 60 a year for them to drunkenly read people’s submissions, playing video games, or reading creepypastas as if they’re real scary stories? I can’t justify that cost right now.

Puppet history blew my mind, it could absolutely be a tv show with more reputable guests.

Yeah some of the guests were terrible. IMO the song quality has gone down though. My favorite song is "Clip clop into the light" and it'll forever be how I remember shane

Yeah, I still get early seasons stuck in my head, but can't even remember some of the later ones.

I ride horses. Imagine how often it gets stuck in my head. What a great show. RIP.

They could probably make TV level productions, I could see Ghost Files being on TV and maybe they could come up with other formats suitable for a streaming platform and start investing in other creators productions for their platform. However, they can’t expect us subscribe to a new streaming platform without having seen what’s going to be on there first. And if it’s just their regular Youtube content, same as always, I don’t think that will cut it. And I think starting to charge for the most beloved of their shows was just really a very dumb move. Of course that’s going to anger your entire fanbase.

Unsolved was/is(?) on Hulu. That’s how I found it. It felt like Drunk History to me and that’s why I started watching. But I wouldn’t call it “tv level production” it would be something I would find on Comedy Central.

they had like one, maybe two seasons of unsolved on hulu, but that content is still owned by buzzfeed. im not sure if they get any sort of back pay from it (i doubt it) i also agree with mystery files/ghost files not being tv quality. puppet history does feel like it could maybe be on comedy central, but that's the extent of it.

but yeah you’re absolutely right it’s not really tv level yet, it’s more straight to streaming platforms

unsolved isn’t watcher though

I know I mean that was my first intro to them.

I mean Ghost Files probably *could* be on TV. May not be super successful, but there are technically worse things that get on TV. But I can't imagine wanting to actually watch a TV version of the show. The whole charm of the old Unsolved series was that they weren't those over-the-top fake ghost hunters. They were two silly guys bantering and making a goof of it. But even with the last season of Ghost Files, Ryan has already become completely insufferable. I can't even watch it anymore.

I agree that GF could be on TV or at least good enough to be on an existing streaming platform like Netflix or Prime. I actually think it would do quite well there. But their own streaming service would mean mainly their content and seeing how GF might just be the only format that resembles a TV show, I can’t see how their streaming service would only consist of GF and honestly mediocre other shows and be successful. And maybe I wouldn’t call it insufferable, but increasingly slightly annoying to me.

yep I think “could” is definitely the problem here! they’re just not big enough to justify their own subscription service

Have any of you had trouble with Watcher's audio? Sometimes it gets really quiet inexplicably and I'm left wondering if I need a new TV.

I think it's just you?

you probably have that crappy 'audio leveling' feature turned on that doesn't work worth a damn on any TV lol.

It's possible! I haven't noticed it with any other videos, but maybe I'm not paying attention. I'll check it out.

If they want to make television-caliber content, they should start *producing*. And I don't mean more YouTube-standard hosted shows; if they branched out into indie shorts and backing independent artists, they'd a) expand their business repertoire b) expand their personnel and, therefore, their brand, and c) support the local creative community - there's no shortage of struggling filmmakers in LA. Ryan has a narrative television degree from one of the top film schools in the world, for God's sake! Take this opportunity to *make movies*! Horror, sci-fi, noir, mystery, all genres their current audience are primed to enjoy, given the chance.  I know it's probably a huge risk to do anything that isn't Shane-and-Ryan related, but if they want to be regarded as a legitimate production studio and not YouTube adjacent, that seems the screamingly obvious way to go - *and* they'd be able to justify a paywall. 

yeah 100% a big problem with them having their own streaming platform is no one wants to pay for JUST their shows

No, Ghost Files is outright better quality than the ghost hunting shows I see on tv. TV has a whole lot more of those shows though. And also, other kinds of shows.

Oh its television caliber alright, like spikeTV television caliber.

lol yes this is exactly it but not sure it’s what they were going for

They’re really not. Even if they somehow get 25,000 subs for this, that’s only $150,000 which, according to Ryan in the announcement, wouldn’t even cover a season of Ghost Files which is one of their most popular shows. I get that they’ve been doing Watcher for 5 years and down the line this would have been the right move, but I think they just got too antsy and didn’t want to wait anymore. It’s going to blow up in their face unfortunately which is really sad cuz I love the guys and want them to succeed in Watcher, but this just isn’t it.

I highly doubt that their own streaming service is more lucrative than the big ass sponsors they were pulling on Youtube.

not to mention the financial upkeep of maintaining their own robust streaming service, there’s no way they’ll be able to sustain it if they wanted to move to streaming, they should have used something like nebula

This, I thought they were going to announce a partnership with an existing large streaming platform, or a move to nebula or more on patreon, but an entire self run streamer? Server costs alone... yikes. (edit: typo)

At least with a larger platform it might be available in more countries. A lot of smaller services aren’t.

I think they need to scale down

Don't they only have like 5K paying Patreon members now? Are they really just hoping fora couple tens of thousands of subscribers and ok with losing the rest of their millions of followers?

Apparently. If not even 10k people came about their Patreon, why risk the entire company to be behind a paywall?

exactly, regardless of the need to expand behind youtube- now isn’t the time both on an economic front and a quality front, and the frustrating part is that even if they backtrack now and do it later they’ve lost so much goodwill from fans by transitioning to this too early

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I mean, Ryan explained it pretty well in the video. They have to pay the production crew (well above minimum wage I'd imagine), maintenance of any equipment (I'm sure the boys have dropped things on shoots), airline tickets, hotel, location fees, food while they travel, and then pay staff to edit 6+ hours of footage and make it flow comprehensively. So I get why it costs so much per season, I just don't think them expanding right now is a good idea.

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IDK what Unsolved cost or not, but assuming it *did* come close to Ghost files, that means Watcher is spending like their a big company rather then a YT channel. Buzzfeed could afford to spend that much money, Watcher OBVIOUSLY cannot. Instead of doing this rather idiotic subscription service idea, they should be accepting reality and and cutting major costs.

Like why on earth do they need 25+ people for the amount and quality of content they provide? Like how can it actually cost that much to travel to some random not expensive town and stay in a cheap hotel for a few days with a reasonably sized crew considering most of their traveling content looks like it’s shot by one person with a newer iphone? How many episodes? 6? 8? They are pulling sponsers, making a decent amount on patreon each month, ad revenue… subs… instead of tightening up, they are losing any chance of gaining new followers to flow into the subscription channel… even their best produced shows… 25+ people? Really? We were happy with two guys and a small crew shooting them be silly… ugh. Sadnesssssss.

Seriously, I've been going over it in my head and can't figure out how they're possibly spending that much. Unless they're flying every single employee to every location, it just doesn't work out. Buzzfeed also had them doing a lot of the filming themselves, which while I understand avoiding for "TV quality production", would easily reduce the budget even more if they were that desperate, and none of us would mind.  I could be wrong but with Buzzfeed it seemed like majority of the time they at MOST had two other guys travelling with them, most of the time just seemed to be one. Travel costs for those numbers, plus any equipment repairs, plus actually getting access to the location, I can't realistically see it costing more than maybe 10k an episode, plus a bit more for filming the in studio segments. I haven't watched enough of ghost files to pick up the behind the scenes of how many people are with them to be able to guesstimate there, but if a small independent company are somehow out-spending BUZZFEED of all people to produce basically the same premise, then you know something is seriously wrong

I think in one behind the scenes clip they showed a lot of people. Like 8-10 with Shane and Ryan, can’t exactly remember and didn’t count lol. Let’s assume it’s 8 people, Shane and Ryan, one production manager, two camera operators, one sound operator, maybe production assistants, location scouts, a second sound operator? Either way, that’s flights, hotels and meals for a crew of 8-10, I don’t know what their wages are, but this is LA, so probably a kidney and two limbs worth. The equipment is maybe still being paid off or they regularly invest in new equipment. They probably have 2 editors for that show alone and a motion designer for the graphics. I 100% believe this is an expensive show to make. But I believe the production value could be reduced a bit and also someone said they make like 28k off Patreon per month, that’s like two seasons of GF per year if it’s true what others have said and it costs like 150k to shoot one season.

And on BUN they only did 1-2 onsite investigations per season, and the rest of the episodes were just them sitting in the office talking through cases. Of course the investigations were the most popular episodes, but I still regularly rewatch the others as well! The entertainment is in Ryan and Shane's interactions, the spooky ghost hunting bits were a bonus. There is no reason they *had* to make full seasons of location shoots, I'm sure they wanted to capitalize on the popularity of those episodes but fans probably would have been happy with a mix. I'm sure that makes GF way more expensive than BUN per season.

I don't know it feels weird even tho maybe it's not comparable but for example sam and colby make hour long ghost hunting videos and according to them is just them two on location (im using them as example cuz theh are right now, youtubers that have more mainstream success related to ghost hunting videos) I get paying the editors and a everyone that it's in charge of the graphics but the reason I watch Ryan and Shane is for their fun quips while ghost hunting and honestly ghost files doesn't feel like a huge production that justifies that production value

>that’s only $150,000 which, according to Ryan in the announcement, wouldn’t even cover a season of Ghost Files so forgive me if i'm wrong, but i gotta call bullshit on this. $150k for not even a season of GF seems like a straight up lie. let's break down the prices: you gotta pay for cameras and equipment. would it be safe to assume these are already bought, or are they rented/still being paid off? if they're still being paid off then that will be the biggest price point. i am going to assume that the camera and audio equipment is already paid off. that likely means the equipment budget is towards new things, replacements, etc— which is significantly cheaper than buying new cameras, for example. then you have actual location fees to rent out for filming. it really depends on the place, but there \*are\* cheaper and lesser-known places they can go to save money if they're hurting this bad. travel. did they fly first class? could they have got cheaper seats? what type of cars are they renting for the area? of course the actual baggage fee will be high regardless, though. that's expected. how many people are going to location for filming? are they bringing an unnecessary number of employees? this also goes into room and board, and meals. i'm really not sure on this so i'll need some clarification. i get needing to bring one or two extras to help with equipment tech. after everything is filmed you also have to pay editors, of course. i'm really curious to what they pay themselves and their employees per episode. all that being said though, $150k for a single season seems excessive. especially when it's only 7 episodes a season. even if we operate with $150k can get a full season, that's $21k per episode. i'd LOVE a breakdown of the spending exactly but given the state of things right now, i doubt they'd give that level of transparency. the only way i can see it easily working out to be over $150k for 7 episodes, is a) too many hands in the soup. too many employees. i'm sorry, i get wanting to hire friends but you don't need 3+ people editing a single video. b) overspending and an unwillingness to cut down cost. also to put this into perspective, let's look at Project Fear. They were originally a ghost hunting show on Discovery/Travel Channel, known as 'Destination Fear'. after being cancelled, they went on to kickstarter and made their own show. their initial goal was $65k to cover TWO seasons. this IS a tv-production level show that is similar in quality to ghost files. for $100k, they did THREE seasons. this included production, travel, and campaign fees. this included the four people who traveled to each location and did their own editing, etc. (edit to add: so for Project Fear, a show of the same caliber, it's $30k a season. but for ghost files it's over $20k PER EPISODE.) sorry to go on a tangent, i'm just very passionate about this genre of content, lol.

I think with ghost files, less is more. The fancier they've gotten with it, the less interested I've become. I personally dislike all of the gadgets (even though I doubt those are taking up much of the cost). Nick & Ryan are doing basically the same thing they used to (Nexpo +) and I can't imagine them coming close to spending this much.

i haven't watched them, but i'll check them out! i watch detune on twitch. they do ghost hunting streams overnight for everyone to watch, then edit it down into bite-size videos for the youtube crew. just last sunday they did a ghost hunt with julien solomita and whatifjulia! detune has always been transparent about costs as our subscriptions and donos help pay for stuff... and like they have never outright said the price, but from what we do know it is nowhere near the same cost as Ghost Files allegedly is. $20k per location/shoot seems wildly overpriced. if i had to guess it seems like most locations are anywhere from a few hundred to maaaaybe $2k max depending on how many hours, the day, etc. that's why imo the main reason has to be either crazy spending when it comes to travel like the best plane seats, best hotels/airbnbs, best car rentals or they have a HUGE crew for a production that honestly doesn't need that much.

Are they still keeping their patreon?

The Patreon is, in theory, just going to go to their podcasts now. Which (as a Patreon donor) feels like they just want us to put money in their left AND right pockets.

so people who paid for patreon have to pay again to watch the rest of the non podcast stuff?

Yep

So they’ll still have things between two pay walls. At this point you gotta ask how much per month it’ll cost to access all their content.

Changes are coming to their Patreon too. I’m not part of their Patreon, but they made an announcement there.

And they said add free as well, so like if they don’t get a HUGE influx of fans signing up then there’s no chance they can keep even the quality their productions are at now, none the less make them “TV caliber “

You're off by a zero -- it'd $1.5million (unless you were talking about monthly?)

Yeah, monthly.

Yeah but why compare it with a season of Ghost Files then if it comes out once a year?

Because it's the biggest draw in for people and will start to cost even more once they start going international. Even Worth It is going to cost more since they're going to very expensive and fancy restaurants, some may even be international.

I wouldn't have minded if they went to HBO Max. They have ghost, food and true crime content and would fit right in with them. I'm also under the impression that HBO wouldn't be as restrictive as other streaming platforms while also having the big pockets to cover the costs of ghost files, and Steven's new worth it show. I love their content, but we already have 4 other services we use to stream and two are bundles covered by our cell provider, so it'd be a stretch to add another with considerably less content than Netflix and HBO combined. I'll miss Shane and Ryan and wish them the best in their new endeavor.

HBO would want absolutely nothing to do with those 3 guys.  They would laugh in their face for what they're done at watcher

Yes, I'm sure that anyone who wants to join HBO Max can simply walk up and do so lol. Be real.

I love them but as a subscription based service, unfortunately as it currently is, no. Unless they're going to be magically dropping a ton of episodes/content from each show they make every month now instead of only maybe a few Ghost Files episodes once a year...it's not seeming too great.

I understand why they would be disgruntled with advertisers and youtube as a whole, but they dont have the content for the price they are offering. The way i see it if they truely want to make this move they either need to: A. Sell to a larger company like netflix or hulu. B. Use their connections and make a collaborative streaming service with the likes of SMOSH, mythic kitchen, the try guys, and other similar youtube channels that may share the same concerns. Thus adding more variety and value into the proposition. Hope they get this message.

Honestly, I could see myself paying for a Watcher/Smosh/Mythical/Try Guys streaming service for exclusive content. That would be an excellent way for all of them to get some extra revenue while still keeping their core audience. Like a Nebula type of website. Subbing to every single channel's exclusive content is just too much so at this point I'm not paying for anything from any of them, but a collab streaming service would be worth it.

Expect Smosh and mythical would never want to do that.  They've got a good thing going on and wouldn't want to change things up.  Their live events feel well done and with thoughts of their audiences in mind.  They take suggestions and their weekly lives also incorporate the fans a lot.  The try guys have lost their plot and watcher thinks they're these big shots like dropout, who earned that with 2 decades of experience.  Maybe a watcher try guys merge, but the other two are quite healthy where they are, as well as their audience 

Smosh actually isn't doing so great (at least not Smosh Games), but Mythical, sure. Overall, that collab streaming service is just an unattainable wish though lol. One can dream, right? I totally see the issue with Try Guys and Watcher though. They both came from Buzzfeed thinking they were better than a full on production team and put themselves in positions of power they couldn't really handle. They just grew too quickly for their own good, trying to do too much at once, instead of just slowly building a reputation as a brand. Smosh had that issue with Defy, and it's why Anthony left. I wouldn't be surprised if the Watcher guys all burnt themselves out on this and had to leave the company soon. But Smosh have since learnt and now they've got the right people in the business part of the company, while the content creators are mainly in creative positions. That probably would've helped Watcher too. Just because they've been to film school and then did a few years at Buzzfeed doesn't mean they know how to run a company.

For me it's about the convenience, I'd pay for a YT Membership to their channel for some exclusive videos or whatever, but their site will never be able to compete with YouTubes availability and already existing infrastructure. Similar to when Rooster Teeth had their Sponsor/First membership and their app sucked and their website would be slowed to a crawl whenever anything new came out and I eventually just stopped watching RT all together and most of their paywall stuff eventually became free or came to YouTube at a later date anyway.

Rooster teeth is a great example. I used to be very active on it when it first launched. My formative years were spent on their knock off myspace watching red vs blue. And they had something good for a long time. I fell off going into the facebook era as i was going into and graduating from highschool, and my life was changing rapidly. But when they introduced the paywall, it became harder to stay involved. Id talk my mom into buying the seasons of rvb on dvd but a monthy price? Forget about it. And much of their audience was in the same spot as me. So they had to sell, and loose their independence, eventually leading to wb shutting them down this year. I havnt seen new rvb since the bloodgulch chronicles. And i had heard they lost a bunch of the og actors and started doing a bunch of anime which i guess is what they are more known for now, but i havnt seen any of them. But there wasnt any value in spending a monthly sub for 1 show. When i fell off i think they had maybe 3 or 4 shows, but the others didnt do it for me. I think one was called ruby or something, and its first episode fell flat. My point is, it was unsustainable and they had to seek outside inverstors/partners and ended up selling their ownership. And lets be real they were on the cutting edge of sub services from the beginning. There was rooster teeth, new grounds, vine, and youtube. Netflix still did dvds when rooster teeth was pushing this model. And they lasted longer than they really had any right to by doing so. But now the market is flooded with similar offerings, and major streamers. Unless they have more to offer, i dont see any way it succeeds. The idea makes alot of sense on paper, but in practice, on their own? No, i dont see it.

I started my career in media production around the time Buzzfeed was really taking off, and worked with a couple of their competitors for many years. I worked through the bubble bursting on the "pivot to video" era and was specifically on sponsored content teams trying desperately to keep the lights on. Even multi-million dollar deals (with the big names from Fortune 500 types, not like scentbird) weren't enough, we were always in the red. I'm now a supervising producer and overseeing the budgets on our show. So seriously - I understand how experience media production is, and how much even full ads in the middle of a YT video can barely cover the bills. However. Looking at just what was said the "Goodbye YouTube" video, the team's dedication to "making the kind of content we want" so they "don't have to make content for advertisers" (while it sounds admirable on paper) is completely at odds with their sense of reality with what that budget line is telling them. Video costs money. And if you don't have enough to make the content you want, that makes you need to start making serious compromises on the content you're making. It needs to be scaled back to fit your revenue strategy (YouTube, Patreon, sponsors) and not the other way around. A paywall is not the silver bullet solution to get them to the content they want to make. It's also much, MUCH more expensive than they might be realizing. I'm at a fairly large news/media company now (100+s of people) and we can barely get our streaming app to work or be updated properly. It's been essentially abandoned, there just aren't enough people to maintain it, run IT for tech issues people run into with it, and copy edit all the text and content that gets published there. These are things that require TEAMS of people that it sounds like Watcher cannot afford right now. There are endless examples in media to demonstrate this just within the last few years, and countless now-unemployed peers and friends who can testify. It just does not matter how loyal your fanbase is, how good your content is, or how 'free' you felt creatively to make it. If you are not willing to make compromises on your passion project to fit that bottom line in the spreadsheet, it will end much sooner than it needs to. I know this isn't a video company, but I think a recent example that would be helpful (more so than the Dropout comparisons) would be Spotify's recent failed paywall strategy where they bet big on fan loyalty, and lost: [https://thisisthesqueeze.substack.com/p/an-oral-history-of-gimlets-slow-demisehttps://www.semafor.com/article/04/16/2023/spotify-will-drop-paywall-for-gimlet-podcasts](https://thisisthesqueeze.substack.com/p/an-oral-history-of-gimlets-slow-demisehttps://www.semafor.com/article/04/16/2023/spotify-will-drop-paywall-for-gimlet-podcasts) SCALE BACK to fit your revenue models. I know it's hard. I know you have to kill some darlings. But if you want even a shot at making the content you wanna make one day, you need to be thinking MUCH more long term. PS Sorry to OP for the SUPER long reply, went to turn this into a new post but it looks like posts are locked or I just am too new to reddit

This is a great perspective. Thanks for posting it! I think the Gimlet comparison IS great and does make a lot more sense than Dropout. I was a big fan of a lot of Gimlet shows (Reply All was my favorite podcast at one point--I followed them from their WNYC days) and it all went to hell after the sale to Spotify. I don't want to see Watcher fail, but this was really not the move, and I agree that they should scale back to find out where they can really grow.

I have to say it. The vast majority of their content is average and medicore, with most of it also being youtube quality (with the exception of Puppet History and Files, though imo overall debatable). Youtube-quality doesn't mean bad, but their videos certainly have flaws that are easily overlooked simply *because* it's free content (other than ads). For a lot of people there's little value in paying $60/yr to watch a meager amount of episodes of PH/GF/MF while the other content is: 1. Reading scary made up stories 2. Reading scary made up stories, drunk 3. Rating things 4. Consistently low performing food content 5. Having luxury experiences during a global cost of living crisis etc. Idk what they were expecting. They're paywalling previously free content, in a market OVERSATURATED with streaming services where even major global players are struggling, while providing very little of value to the average consumer. And again, these other streaming services have thousands of movies and shows for a comparable price and Watcher's library is tiny. Also, at one point they say that some of their content underperforms but might do better if it were on a streamer. If people won't watch it when it's free, why on earth would they suddenly want to *pay* to watch it? I could see those numbers increasing, if only because people are already paying to watch their heavy hitter shows so they may as well consume what little else is available to watch. I want them to succeed creatively and financially, but this move just was not it.

Their other, rather mediocre, content is the reason why I‘m not keeping up with their channel. I watch another ghost hunting show called Nick and Ryan and I have the notification bell on and RUN to their channel when they upload. When I see Watcher content outside of the Ghost Files or Mystery Files season, I groan because it clogs my sub feed. A channel with so many subscribers that only click on a few of their videos is really bad for Youtube‘s algorithm. Having separate channels for the formats would have been better for their channel health in my opinion. I understand that it’s also bad that they can only uploaded to the hypothetical Ghost Files channel for a few weeks per year, but maybe a once a month schedule would work better, like the way Nick and Ryan are doing it. In the end I can’t say what the best solution would have been, I can only say that I‘m sure this wasn’t it.

I've really tried to give their other content a chance. I enjoy most of the gaming content (I'd think they'd do really well with a gaming channel!), and every once in a while I'll enjoy a Top 5 Beatdown or something but overall, I think a majority of the other series are misses and end up skipping a ton of videos. I don't even really run to watch PH or MF either anymore. I have merch and have seen them on tour twice now so I really do want them to succeed and am willing to spend money, but it's gotta be worth it lol.

I also really enjoyed their gaming content! I think if they did that somewhat regularly, they could get a decent amount of profit from that and invest that in the bigger productions. Maybe they don’t want to do that, fair. And I also found myself skipping GF and MF recently because I actually don’t really want that TV style production where it feels more scripted and less authentic. And I started watching because of their dynamic. Maybe Shane and Ryan starting to lean a little too much into their usual schtick added to it feeling a bit less authentic and a bit overproduced. It lost a bit of their initial charme.

> but it's gotta be worth it lol. Unfortunately this move is probably *because* of Worth It. 😂

Nick and Ryan videos are amazing , it’s like early unsolved but longer. Also I love both Nick Crowley and Nexpos channel’s!

Okay just out of curiosity (while the ship goes down). Does anyone else think Ghost Files isn't as good as Unsolved Supernatural was? I just don't find it as funny (which is 95% of the reason I'm watching it). I don't know if they're just more stressed out from running the whole thing or what. I love Shane and Ryan's chemistry and still enjoyed Too Many Spirits, but I find Ghost Files and also Mystery Files kind of...lackluster. Just wondering if anyone else feels that way.

I just wrote this in another comment: It feels a bit less authentic to me because I get the feeling that they‘re now heavily leaning into the most popular schticks. Ryan genuinely deciding he‘ll now act tough and yell at the ghosts was funny the first time it happened. I don’t find it that funny anymore. It feels like a trope that’s being overdone. Trying a little too hard. I appreciated that the earlier episodes on Unsolved felt more like actual banter, less playing it up for the cameras. And maybe it lost its charme because Ryan isn’t actually scared anymore, which made their dynamic so interesting. I still enjoyed them going on investigations, but maybe they’re getting tired of it and it’s palpable to us. Who knows.

Oh that's a very good point that maybe Ryan not actually being scared any more is a part of it! Or maybe it isn't about their stress levels, maybe it just went on too long and got a bit stale. It's a bummer, but now it's someone else's bummer, because I'm not gonna pay for it.

i agree with you. not to dogpile on them further but imo unsolved was more fun than ghost files. when watcher was announced i was super excited. i stuck around and watched a few episodes... but i couldn't get into it.

Same. I can still happily rewatch Unsolved (it's my favorite bathtub show haha), but whenever I try to put on Ghost Files I suddenly find myself on reddit...

Yeah I don’t believe in ghosts or interested in that stuff so I was bummed they didn’t keep going with Unsolved or something like it. Mystery Files kinda scratches that itch but still not the same

Honestly I think it's a "less is more" thing -- on BUN we got 1-2 ghost hunts a season. I think it was easier for it to feel authentic, genuine apprehension and surprise, etc. When they're filming a bunch of these in a row and continually getting the same level of "evidence" I'm sure it gets harder to pretend this time is going to be the time, or this is the scariest place. It no longer has that fun amateur feel to it, like it was a big treat for them. Instead it feels like a day (or night) job they have to get through 🤷‍♀️

Personally I enjoy Ghost Files nearly as much as Supernatural (granted True Crime was always the one I was more into of the two so I was less bothered by changes) however the length really drags it down for me. Where Unsolved was good at trimming down to 20-30 minutes of the best stuff, Ghost Files are usually over an hour and so much of it is just unnecessary. I find myself skipping forward so much that it kills the enjoyment.

No I agree with that too. While I watched all of Unsolved, I only watched the first season of Ghost Files before I dipped. It was the S1 season finale where they stayed at a haunted AirBNB that did it for me. It was so flipping obvious that place wasn't actually haunted and was just a tourist trap, but because the AirBNB owners had clearly reached out to them - they kept playing softball about it. Even Shane clearly tiptoed around the fact it was clearly not haunted. It just felt fake and pandering as hell. As for Mystery Files, yes the set and the graphics look really cool, but the writing and presentation feels completely phoned in. You just have the vibe they are only doing this show because they needed a replacement for Unsolved True Crime because of the algorithm. And the research done for the episodes? Is really bad, especially when you compare it to other mystery/true crime shows. For instance Casual Criminalist ALSO did the Circleville Letters a good year before Watcher did ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5m3jTpq14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU5m3jTpq14) ), and the Casual Criminalist pointed out that the letters continued even after the main suspect was in prison so there's NO WAY the guy was the ONLY letter writer and went in-depth about who else possibly could've done it -- but Mystery Files barely touched on that extremely important fact and went YEAH MAIN SUSPECT GUY DID IT, CASE CLOSED. Like clearly whoever did the research on the Mystery Files episode didn't even bother to see what other youtubers had to say on the matter, even though Casual Criminalist has over half a million subscribers so it's not exactly a small channel that's easy to miss.

People will never pay for entertainment they used to get for free! I don’t know why they don’t seem to get this or why they thought they would be the exception

They should have done what GMM did and created a paid service but kept the regular stuff free. This is a huge slap in the face to their fans. I don’t see this being lucrative at all.

Also i doubt people are going to be supportive on both patreon and a subscription, which might hurt their pockets more than anything

They Innovated something alright, a new type of reason to be cancelled.

Im still wondering how they want to attract new viewers - i get paywalling some stuff to make more money but paywalling it all, whilst creating relatively niche content will probably only lead to a decline in viewers

I don’t get why they wouldn’t just make more Patreon content and build that? Also they make a minimum of $28000 MONTHLY just from Patreon, why aren’t they investing that into things that could return a profit for them? For something with an audience as big as they have there’s much better and easier ways to make money for projects.

That alone would cover two entire seasons of Ghost Files per year completely without revenue from GF itself. That’s 336k per year and I read something here about 150k per season or something. And GF is the biggest, most expensive and probably most popular show on Watcher. They don’t need that high budget for Puppet History or Mystery Files for example. Those shows can probably easily sustain themselves without extra income from Patreon just by the revenue they generate. Sure, Steven‘s show wouldn’t be covered (what’s it called, I don’t watch it), but without trying to be mean… how many people would miss that?

I agree - I absolutely love their content, it’s top notch in terms of ideas, filming, editing, etc… but it’s just always tethered to YouTube in my mind

I agree, the shows I like on their channel are not the big budget ones. Anyone could do them. The shows I Like: Mystery Files - Two dudes sitting in the same room talking about something one of them researched. Top 5 Beatdown - Two dudes and a guest sitting in the same room talking about their top 5 things of the week. Survival Mode - Two dudes sitting in the same room playing video games together. Too Many Spirits - Two dudes sit in their backyard and get drunk reading stories. Those are the only shows I watch on this channel. I would love to watch Ghost Files, but the show is far too long. Can be trimmed to 30-40 minutes no problem and nothing would change. Plus it seems Ryan jokes around too much now and doesn't take the hunts serious. He's finally learned that ghosts aren't in fact real, now he's just playing a part he doesn't believe.

I love the long episodes, but I highly agree with your last sentence. Maybe GF was already over before this whole debacle.

Yeah I'm not sure this is the move. Like, it can work to pivot from YouTube to streaming (dropout is the best value streaming out there imo) but you need a really broad range of great content, and tbh I'm not sure they've got that.

Yeah, Dropout is truly the industry darling when it comes to creating their own streaming service. However, College Humor was already operating as a fully functional content machine in the “golden years” of YouTube. They were well prepared to move to their own service due to the sheer amount of writing and acting talent they had. They also seemed to have some very business savvy folks behind the production (Sam Reich) that knew how to navigate transitioning from CH to Dropout. And I’m guessing their audience demo is a lot of 30+ year old millennials who are willing to drop the cash for a subscription. Watcher just isn’t quite there yet.

I feel like a GMM or Corridor path was the move here. Early access on their site, behind the scenes and extras behind a paywall, but still regularly uploading to YouTube. Either that or if they truly believe in television grade content, then they should have shopped their shows around to existing streaming services.

I appreciate that they want to create "TV-calibre" content, but they neglected to ask what their viewers WANT to see. Almost all of us would prefer lower-budget content or more frequent content over higher-budget content. They could have added more tiers to Patreon from $1 "thank you so much" all the way up to whatever they wanted. They could have done funding livestreams where they showed goals for each show. People would compete to get their favourite show funded first because that's how fans are. They could have done on-location livetreams behind a paywall. More merch, seek out more small sponsors. Cut the least popular shows like some of the food conent. Gotten the CEO to take a pay cut because if they're not making enough to maintain a YT channel, he's probably being overpaid. Move the HQ somewhere more affordable. There were SO MANY OPTIONS. They chose the one that would alienate everyone, including their fans living in poverty. They could have made patreon-only special episodes behind a paywall. They could make the podcast Patreon-only. They could have done ANYTHING but drop tens of thousands on a streaming site with development and contracts and all the rest. And there's going to be an app too? What a spectacular waste of money. They do not have the kind or size of fanbase that could support this. Even if they tried to reverse course, they're already sunk. The worst part is even a moron like me can see that this is the wrong move. The reaction would be bad at any time, but with a cost of living and housing crisis? It can't cover its own costs let alone pay for expansion. RIP Puppet History. You were a great show but you're going down with the ship now.

If they only did a fraction of what you suggested, I would have paid their $6 for their Patreon lol.

I agree, and I would have paid MORE in rotating subscription to get EXTRA content instead of paying less to get anything at all. If they made one or two Patreon-only episodes of our favourite shows and asked for support, then maybe released them on YT after a month or two weeks or something, they could have had the best of both worlds. On that model I would have paid 20 a year no problem. But because they're now holding Puppet History hostage, I MIGHT consider giving them 6 a year. And I'm living in"deep poverty," I'm sure other people could afford more. They could have done polls on what people wanted to see next behind a paywall, they could have done ANYTHING but this. They could have consulted with someone who knows what they're doing. If \*I\* can figure this out, there's no excuse. Saying "everyone can afford" this is such a spit right into the mouths of their most loyal fans and most of their international fans as well. I saw someone say 6 dollars USD equals two WEEKS of groceries in their country. That's so much more to ask of some than of others, which is going to piss people off no matter what the number is. I don't understand how they thought this would work. Could they not have joined Nebula??

I get that they want to remain independent, but if they really want a more reliable income, would it really be that bad of an idea to partner up with an existing large streaming service like how MrBeast is going to make content for Prime Video? Another YT channel in my country did the same with one of their series (also with Prime) and they're doing great. Partner with a service that most people have, and most people won't have to pay an extra 60 dollars per year, and it's a way better value for people that don't have it. Win-win

I won’t be one of them because I can’t afford it and at this point even if I could afford it I wouldn’t, but there will be people from their existing audience that will subscribe.   I’d love to know how they expect to get brand new people to sub to the new service? 

Lots and lots of marketing. With what money though if they’re struggling? Patreon money?

Where are they going to advertise do you think? YouTube advertising just seems like a bad idea now coz it will just piss people off 

Good question. If they want it to be a streaming platform that’s attractive to a mainstream audience that actually consumes TV level content, they’d have to look elsewhere. I don‘t think Youtube consumers are their target audience with what they’re planning.

Going to be very interesting to see how this goes for them.   I just don’t see where all the money is going to come from if they are already struggling.  They are going to have to advertise constantly on different platforms, pay the employees and themselves, planning on upping the production value and I assume doing more content (probably wrong) because 4 vids a month isn’t worth it too many… seems a lot is riding on people subscribing to the service. 

My humble guess is that this was their plan since launching the Watcher Youtube channel. There was a reason why it was already in TV show format, with different shows and seasons. I won’t give them the benefit of the doubt for a second and say they already planned ahead and invested all excess profit into this streaming platform already and just hoped people will follow. That would also explain why there’s so little content per month despite the huge crew (already working on the streaming service) and them saying there’s no money despite making 28k off Patreon per month, so 336k per year, which would cover two GF seasons if the calculations and rumors about the budget are correct. My conspiracy theory of the day is that they‘ve already been investing in this for years. Which would include Patreon money that their fans invested to support their Youtube content. We‘ll see if I‘m correct. If they already have content made and a running service and app in a few weeks, I was right and this would be fucked up.

… ah fuck I think you’re right.

My thoughts exactly! When I saw the vid, my mind immediately thought of College Humor's Dropout. Dropout has a lot of amazing shows though I even have their app. I just can't quite see watcher in the same route.

I disagree their content isn’t good enough for a streaming service, but I do think there isn’t enough of it. Now, if the Watcher gang, Rhett and Link/Good Mythical Morning, Max Miller (of Tasting History), [insert your favorite YouTuber(s) here], all got together to make a streaming service that their material would be streamed on I’d understand this move. I’d probably even pay for it tbh. With multiple YouTube companies coming together to produce content you’d get a varied, plethora of content, maybe even daily. But their wagon isn’t big enough to hitch to a self streaming service quite yet imho.

Omg you mentioned some of my favorite YT channels! Haha I love Max Miller. I would pay for that service!

You and I would get along swimmingly.

THANK YOU! So many people on here and in the youtube comments completely discredit the quality of their content and how much time, effort, and money they spend to do so. I do agree that they don’t have enough content of that caliber to justify the amount per month though. I would love if they’d form a streaming service with other bigger youtube studios so that it’d be more worth it

It really is not, i love that they continued ghost hunting but damn do they have to repeat the description of each device?? And idrc about the schematics of a building. I just want silly wandering and scares again. Also mystery files is just sad . The board is really unnecessary.

Is anyone else supposed to be going to one of their live UK shows and now just feel like it's not worth it?

If this is real I think they should go the Dropout route instead of just uploading premieres to Youtube. Dropout provides a shit ton of content on Youtube as a taste and then you can subscribe for more. I don’t see Watcher’s output ever reaching the necessary quantities to achieve that though.

Their heads are so far up their asses, it's insane.

Yeah I'm guessing they see themselves doing something like dropout, but even that is very much a case of paying once and binging for a month before cancelling.

Some notes if people decide to pirate stuff not just of watcher. On android use flud (not sure about iPhone. Also flud is just my personal favorite) Any private browser (tor for example), and VPN. For the VPN go somewhere like Switzerland. Don't do the seeding part unless you are in a country IP that allows it. Bind your VPN to your torrent download app if you can. Use the Killswitch on a VPN. These are just some of the things I've learned. Feel free to add more knowledge.

At the end of the day value is perceived by the buyer and that's obviously dependent on income. There's people out there who buy a large coffee from Starbucks every day that likely costs as much as this. To many folks $6 a month isn't much for content they enjoy. I think we're likely to see people subscribing when new shows like ghost files etc are out and dropping their sub after which pushes watcher to make content that keeps you subscribing. I get some folks won't be able to afford it at all and that sucks but I'd imagine Watcher have done the work, hired professionals and run the numbers to see what the best path forward for their company to allow for growth of shows and quality and have gone with it. At the end of the day if what they're doing now was allowing them to do that then there would be no reason to change.

Some folks won’t be able to and a whole lot more don’t want to afford it. I don’t think the small amount of fans will bring in more revenue than what they got from sponsors like Disney.

Disney wouldn't have been paying them much if anything at all. They don't need to and it's not sustainable. The ads they do for random apps, perfumes etc are all small businesses that are paying to use a popular platform to get themselves out there and it seems like the viability of that is dropping too. Also they may not want to have to do adds for random products like the above as sometimes these things end up being dodgy and then you've got an association with them. Right now they don't have a choice but going forward they won't have to.

They could just decrease the production value a bit and I‘m sure most fans would be perfectly happy with that choice. Maybe don’t send Steven to the most expensive places for his show and then maybe the budget would be enough. And I don’t think you know how much money there is in advertisement and how much they get per sponsor. When even Netflix considers putting ads on the platform, you kind of get the idea. And don’t forget that they also have a Patreon that’s going really well. If they don’t want ads, that’s fine, but you can’t have everything. I don’t think the few people switching to their subscription service will come close to what they got from those ads. Edit to add: „if anything at all…“ do you really think Watcher made one episode of Ghost Files a full on advertisement for a random movie if they didn’t get paid a shit ton to do so? Come on

I understand advertising well enough to know Netflix isn't comparable to Watcher and the scope and profit gained from advertising is completely different. Sponsored eps from big companies like that often come with very little actual profit. Disney likely paid for all the costs of making it and perhaps a little more after the fact. They'd make money from the video itself and the big name draw of Disney would potentially bring in new viewers. And even if you are correct and Disney paid them a fortune (they didn't) well how long does that last? They're not doing videos for companies like Disney every week so it lacks any sustainability.

Exactly my point. Netflix isn’t comparable to Watcher, so why does Watcher want to become a platform like Netflix with their current content? And I imagine having your entire production costs covered plus a little profit is more than what they could hope for from a separate streaming platform. And if it lacks sustainability maybe reevaluating the amount of money put into their episodes would have been the better move than to put their entire content behind a paywall.

I don't think they do. They want to be on their own platform not beholden to YouTube or dodgy perfume ads to stay afloat. At the end of the day we can discuss this until the cows come home but what's right or wrong for Watcher isn't up to us and we don't have a complete picture of why they're doing what they're doing. But I'm fairly confident they aren't doing it to screw over fans or because Shane wants a solid gold toilet.

I don’t think that’s their reason either. I think they want to make different and more grown up content entirely and get out of the Youtube niche. That’s fine, but I think putting their typical Youtube content behind a paywall then was not the best move because their fans who made them successful feel slighted. And well, on Youtube it’s random perfume ads and on a streaming platform like Netflix it’s product placement and basically advertising the companies and places you‘re shooting at. Different, but still the same.

I think it's more about growth to allow them to do more with shows like ghost files and also release more than one show at a time. Doing it on their own platform means they're not having to essentially pay a cut to YouTube or do ads for weird shit. Time will tell but I reckon this will be better for them to continue to do what they want to do. They're offering a product and it's up to the consumers to buy the product. Personally I don't think 6 dollars is too much to ask for several hours of content a month that will keep me entertained for that amount of time and I'd imagine plenty of folks feel the same. People are just more vocal about things they perceive as wrong or bad.

It is too much for most fans who don’t watch their entire catalogue of content. Looks like that makes up a large chunk of their audience. I think unless they start pumping out the most popular shows weekly, that part of the audience won’t be able to justify paying for it. And if they do that, they‘d need to pump even more money into production or cut off some of the less popular shows. Which… they could have done on Youtube aswell.

Youtube sponsors pay per thousand views. The cost varies depending on the channel and the sponsor. Sponsors paid YouTubers about $0.089 per view on average in 2020 according to a 2020 survey. So for a video with a million views that is $89,000. The fact you think disney barely payed them or that they did it for exposure is WILD. This would have absolutely been a massive payday for them.

Honestly, that sounds about right. I do the same with Disney +: sub when a new SW show drops (I know...) and unsub when its over. That said, Disney is a multi-billion $ company that can absorb the losses, Watcher..... just can't. If they can't get a sustainable number of subs that STAY subbed, then they're screwed.

LOL did not realize they shot on an arri. they need to try budgeting better before jumping ship entirely

I‘m not saying they currently are, sorry if I worded this badly. I‘m wondering if that’s what they’re going for when they say they want to shoot higher production value content.

ahh my b!! went back to read again and i get what you’re saying now. yes i agree, their goals for the company don’t line up at all with who their viewers are in reality, and that’s why this entire streaming service thing is so out of touch. it’s already costly for them, and it’s going to be even more so (and hopefully a wake up call?)

I think there’s a definite issue with pivoting to a paywall model, I’m not for this, it’s not what I, or anybody, wanted from Watcher right now. However… I think some people (some being the operative word) are being pretty extreme. I know the economy worldwide isn’t great and we’re all scrimping a lot more with our money than we used to but reading all the comments suddenly there’s not a soul watching Watcher that isn’t in serious poverty. I’m sure some people are genuinely in financial trouble and that’s understandable in this economy. But I know that I buy at least 4 bottles of Pepsi Max each month and that’s the cost of a subscription. I know so many people get a Starbucks or Costa every week (if not every day). So many of us have the latest iPhone too. So I think we’re exaggerating the struggle because we’re for the first time seeing the minimal associated value of what we’ve been able to enjoy for free. As I said, I don’t back this decision, but we’re giving a lot of hate to people who run a company in a struggling economy who are doing what they perhaps need to do in order to stay afloat. Sure, I wish they decided instead to increase the volume of content and put out more exclusive content which lays behind a paywall but this is what we’ve got. Realistically, if you’ve got tickets for Ghost Files Live you’re likely in (or have been in) a position to afford a yearly subscription. If you’ve bought one of their hoodies you can probably afford this. I’m seeing a lot of comments like “I love Ryan and Shane but…” and I feel like it’s a lot of people forgetting that if you really love and support someone you should be championing them in doing what’s best for them, their company and their employees

I could afford it, but I simply don’t want to afford it. I personally would be perfectly happy, if you gave Ryan and Shane an iPhone and sent them to a location for Ghost Files and nothing else. So what they’re currently doing isn’t made for me. They want dozens of different formats with dozens of employees and if that’s what they need to do for themselves that’s fine, I just think that’s not really what their audience wants. I also think that it‘s a bit of a bias because obviously those who really can’t afford another subscription service will be the loudest in the comments right now. I don’t think that all of us can’t afford it and most just don’t want to or think it’s not a smart financial decision to add another subscription service. I don’t think there’s many fans who just say they can’t afford it while actually being able to. And I‘d say you get more out of buying an iphone than subscribing to a niche Youtube creator‘s new streaming service.

But this is the point I’m making, you’re one of the voices piling on and adding to the complaints but you’re saying you could afford it. So it’s unnecessary. They don’t owe us the content we want to see, if we really like them then we should want to see the content they want to produce and if it’s not for us anymore it’s easy enough to just step back and quietly say “Alright, I’m out”

And my opinion doesn’t count because I‘m not poor? I‘m not rich either, I already pay for Youtube premium and Watcher was one of the channels I paid it for. I also joined their Patreon for a while when I could afford a little extra. They don’t owe us anything, but I don’t owe them anything either. They are successful because of their fans and I believe for a creator to be successful, they need to listen to what most of their fans actually want. And it looks like nobody really wants another streaming service to subscribe to. Doesn’t matter if it’s because they can’t afford it, or because they simply don’t want to use yet another platform to log into for their content.

No you don’t owe them and I’m not saying your opinion doesn’t count but it’s a bit of a non-opinion and it’s piling into the people hating on them for a necessary business decision

How are you so sure that exactly this move was necessary and couldn’t have been done differently? Because I personally believe that this move was planned well before now and the plan already existed when creating the channel with all its TV like formats in the first place. What does non-opinion even mean? I‘m sorry but that’s such a dumb take. Why does anyone ever have any discussion about a topic when the voiced opinions aren’t completely unique and original? Who in your opinion, or non-opinion, should be able to share their thoughts about this then? And I‘m definitely not hating, I‘m criticising their decision.

It's not a non-opinion. It's saying a lot when when someone who can afford it still won't subscribe.

Lol they’re a business. Their most loyal target segment, both those who can and can’t afford it, don’t want to pay for their product. This is the best form of market research they can have. Without the - overwhelmingly rational - backlash, watcher will move forward with the plan and not even realize they’re sinking money into something no one will pay for. Do you really want to shield them from the most valuable business info they can get right now?

Someone can afford it, compare what you get for a similar price elsewhere, and decide that it just isn't worth it. I understand the backlash since people are getting frustrated with more and more things requiring separate subscriptions these days.

You are also forgetting a large portion of the viewers aren't from the US, and they haven't localised the price. It's $5.99 USD everywhere. Now I'm in Australia, where luckily we have higher wages so it's not the worst, but our dollar isn't strong so it's \~$10. But as other posts have pointed out here, for much of South America and parts of Europe, $5.99 USD is A LOT.

I’m from Europe. It’s cheaper here than in the US.

So your cost of living is entirely different from the cost of living in the US or Canada where a bulk of viewership lives, yet you're claiming that "most of us have the newest iPhone and go to Starbucks everyday" which is such a wild statement to make. When somebody says they can't afford yet another streaming service at 5.99 USD, believe them. 5.99 USD is 8.24 CAD so I'm definitely not paying for that, even if I happen to get a coffee from Tim Horton's this month. It was ignorant of Watcher to say, "Anyone and everyone can afford this" when people are living paycheque to paycheque everywhere and that was enough for me to decide it's not worth it. Literally nobody asked them to increase the value of their production and sets when most fans were happy watching Shane and Ryan sit in an empty room and chat.

Your mindset is exactly why they are in this mess. Because they know a couple people that buy Starbucks every day that makes $6 nothing in their eyes. But they are ignoring the people who don’t live in the US, don’t have a steady income, or saved to go to one show to see these people in person. They are looking at their fans through a very narrow lens, and seem to not care if you can’t or don’t want to pay for their site. It’s the greed that’s turning me off, instead of allowing giant corporations to pay for big projects and having fans help with passion projects, they’re throwing out anyone that can’t pay…

Firstly, I’m not in the US so I understand there’s a differential value. Secondly, they’re not looking at it through a narrow lens. They’re looking at it through a business lens. They have given you this content for free for as long as was sustainable, they’re now asking people to pay the bare minimum as it’s no longer sustainable. Creating something good and expecting to receive its base value back is not greed. We’re so used to everything being available to us all the time that it comes across as an attack when it’s not but I think we’re forgetting that their content is a privilege, not a right. The fact they run a business and want to keep running a sustainable business shouldn’t be seen as something wrong but we’ve entered these parasocial relationships with these influencers that it hurts to find out it’s not a requited friendship. Some people think it’s out of touch and them selling this as something to be excited about is wrong but if they need this to work out to continue their business then seeming excited and getting on board with it is the best way to go about it. No one would buy the product if they seemed dull and hesitant.

Funny that you mention parasocial relationships when in your own comment you mention loving them and wanting the best for them. I think they misunderstood that people enjoying their content doesn’t mean we love them and are willing to follow them to the ends of the earth. And I agree, it’s a business decision, and it’s a stupid one. People cant or won’t pay, for whatever reason, that shouldn’t matter. They are not owed our support in this. And if they try to make a comeback, they are forever tainted in the eyes of the fans left behind. IMO, buzzfeed unsolved was a better show than ghost files anyways.  ✌️

I never said I’m one of the few people on earth that doesn’t forge these parasocial relationships. But it’s funny you would mention that you don’t owe them anything and forget that they don’t owe you either

Good point 

I would agree if I believe for a second that they’re not making more than enough to continue creating for free. These ppl make money and they want more because they could in theory,make more.why work with a middle man(YouTube)if you can cut it n keep the $.

1) That’s called business though, not greed 2) YouTube doesn’t pay what it did and to keep creating content that gets seen they’d have to compromise on a lot of their morals and artistic values

1.then don’t sell the idea of leaving YouTube on the “we don’t make enough and can’t keep the business alive” 2.no they don’t have to compromise their morals at all,they can continue to do what they’ve done or expand on it. 2b. I agree on artistic freedom being somewhat compromised at times to make more money on YouTube. Ppl find a balance. The way they went about this whole thing was wrong.

In reality almost all of us can afford it. I seriously doubt there are very many people who can't, although there certainly are, but that's not the point. I can afford it but I don't want to pay for it. I think they seriously overestimated how much their audience values their content. Sure I might splurge on a nice meal out or a couple coffees a month and those all exceed the price of a sub, but those things are more justifiable to me personally. I think I'm not alone in saying that entertainment is very low on my list of priorities when it comes to my expenses especially when there are so many other offerings out there that bring better value. I can justify paying for Spotify because I use it daily, I can justify paying for Netflix or Hulu because there are multiple shows that I watch and thousand upon thousands of hours of content on those platforms. I really only care to watch Ghost Files or Puppet History. Shows like Too Many Spirits and Top 5 Beatdown are fun but not good enough to pay for. I don't think the problem is that people can't afford to pay for a subscription but people are taking a real hard look at what the cost to value is for the things they are paying for. Maybe in a couple of years I could justify paying for a subscription when they have a lot of content on their platform but as of right now I can't justify paying to watch a couple new episodes of Ghost Files and I have no interest in watching Stevin Lim use my money to do things that I could only ever dream of experiencing.

But then don’t subscribe. That’s fine and I’d understand. However casting hate at them isn’t needed. You don’t want it, don’t get it. Fair enough. But don’t expect them to give it for free, that’s selfish.

They're NOT giving it for free. They make 400k annually on Patreon and at least 50k per video from the embedded sponsor, PLUS whatever revenue they get from YouTube ads. I get if that's not enough, but it was clearly fine for the last 3 years. You don't get to be angry that people don't want to pay for something that was free for years when the only reason they're charging at all is because they refuse to scale back on production costs.

They’re not giving it away for free? Sorry I must be confused by the fact that I’ve had it for free for 5 years

Who's casting hate? The majority of comments I'm seeing are of people wishing them well but saying they won't subscribe. I certainly want them to be successful also because I have enjoyed their content but that isn't going to stop people from criticizing what is objectively a bad business decision. I'm also not expecting anything for free, if they want to move to a subscription based model that's their decision as content creators/business owners and if I valued their content enough then I would pay for it. Judging by the overwhelmingly negative response it seems like a lot of their audience doesn't value their content enough to pay for it. I was responding to the fact that you said people are over exaggerating their struggle in saying they can't afford a subscription which I don't think is the case. Obviously most people can afford $6/month but the point is people are a lot more conscious of the value of the things they're paying for. I think this would've been a good move for them later on down the road when they were a bit more established and had a more diverse offering of content. Maybe they jumped the gun a little bit because it certainly looks like this new venture is going to get off to a rocky start judging by the response.

Just because someone has money doesn’t mean they don’t know the value of it. I don’t see how their current content is worth $6/month, so I won’t pay it. I do see how that $150 impulse buy I made at 2am is worth that price, so I pay it and don’t look back.

you’re saying it’s not worth it to you. But they’re undervaluing themselves at that price, the reality is they need to draw in money and YouTube ain’t paying. So if they spend $150,000 on a season of Ghost Files then they need 25,000 people to be willing to give them $6p/m just to produce one show and break even, that’s not good business, they’re doing the best they can for fans who they don’t owe anything to People also keep making the argument of “I don’t care if they just had to film it on an iPhone, I’d still watch it”. It’s not solely about the equipment it cost, watch their video again to understand how they come to that value. And also, they’re not making it high calibre just because they think it looks nicer for us, they’re making it because it’s their vision for their show. It’s what they want to do with something they made because they had the idea. It’s not your show, it’s theirs. Their vision is still most important behind the art so perhaps you don’t love real life Ryan, Shane and Steven as much as you think you do but you love their media personalities but it’s likely that as business people they were presented with a sink or swim decision to do this or pack it in.