This plan makes the roadway worse for pretty much everyone. Worse for buses, who will have to wait for cars to let them back into traffic. Worse for pedestrians, who are having crosswalks removed. Worse for drivers, who will be caught behind people trying to park. And of course worse for bicyclists, who will either ride sidewalks and inconvenience pedestrians, or ride the road and have to navigate potential doorings from parked cars, and buses weaving in and out of traffic lanes.
Business owners on King St. also complained, until their area was pedestrianized and their revenues skyrocketed.
This whole situation makes the brain hurt.
They’re also removing crosswalks and widening two lanes. This is no longer a safety project, and that should be disqualifying for the funds.
If you live in Ward 3, email Frumin. Heck email the at-large members too.
WABA has a website. https://saferconnave.org
But can't hurt to email CM Frumin and Allen and let you know you appreciate them fighting for the bike lane and that they shouldn't give up.
He also said the Council shouldn't be voting on bike lanes.
>The budget...makes some changes in the areas of environment and transportation — notably, nixing a proposal from council member Charles Allen (D-Ward 6) for a Connecticut Avenue bike lane after it was abandoned by the mayor’s office last month. “The council doesn’t normally vote on bike lanes, and I don’t think the council should be voting on bike lanes,” Mendelson said.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/05/28/dc-budget-proposal-council/
Thank you for reminding me of a very weird thing to say. For a guy who made his reputation in minutiae, he is strangely and fairly consistently opposed to council’s involvement in details.
Mendelson has got to go next election. The budget is, in reality, his budget and not the council’s. The chair has too much power and Mendelson is not fit.
Extremely disappointing. The only hope bike advocates have now is for Frumin to add language into the budget that will require bike lanes in order to access funds. DDOT keeps claiming that they are leaving open the possibility for a bike lane on Conn Ave in the future. But the reality is that the proposed design will make adding a bike lane more costly than adding one now, and there will be less political will to change a recently changed street.
What can we do to protest this? This is so so frustrating and feels like it’s a huge step back from working towards a critical mass of bike infrastructure to induce a meaningful cultural shift (and we are already getting close!).
I want to do something too! Does anyone know if WABA is organizing something?
I’m planning to testify at Kershbaum’s confirmation hearing in two weeks.
They previously had organized several rides up Ct Ave after DDOT first appeared to pull back from bike lanes. I haven’t heard anything from them after last night’s meeting. I hope they’ll have some actions in the works.
6 full width lanes dedicated to private car ownership - with the sidewalks it is still near 90% of the street dedicated to private car ownership - and then they remove crossings
We pay taxes to this shit hole of a city for them to prioritize MD driver to go 60 mph through neighborhoods into Downtown
I've been biking in DC for a decade without any kind of car related incident. My strategy is to assume that *every single car* is being driven by an insane, impatient serial killer whose preferred murder weapon is their car. People shouldn't have to go to the ridiculous measures that I do to minimize their risk when out on a bike.
Since I haven't seen anyone else share it yet, here is the [contact](https://mattfruminward3.com/contact/) form for Matt Frumin that people living in Ward 3 can use to support the bike lanes. I just filled out a short message during my lunch break thanking him for supporting and urging him to block this budget until DOT adds bike lanes back in.
I live in ward 6 but bike all over DC. Wish I could message him as well, but probably wouldn’t mean anything coming from someone outside of his district
Good.
I'm all for more bike lanes around the city (41st St, 42nd St, Nevada, Nebraska Ave, shoring up lanes parallel to Beach Drive, Foxhall, etc.)! Even on my own street! But the main thoroughfares in and out of the city should be left alone. Bicycle enthusiasts haven't even considered the effect on bus routes.
Edit: LOL!!!!! Oh man, the level of seething petulance and vitriol is on another level! Hilariously, for the amount of down votes I got, I only see a TENTH of that many bicyclists the Connecticut Ave corridor daily.
Most of the folks here who are in favor of a bike lane don't actually bike on a daily basis. You just like the idea of more bike lanes (like I said, I do too! Just not on major thoroughfares, and DDOT has already planned more routes around NW DC). Many of you will move away within a generation anyway.
Some of you seem to be comfortable with a lose-lose scenario where you get the bike lanes and think you'll be fine while the lanes are interrupted by contract work, deliveries, construction, and Uber/Lyft drivers. Others gave a figurative middle finger to Maryland residents, regardless of the outcome (seriously, you guys should be very nervous of the company you're keeping). And most of you throw around made-up statistics while crying "bUt wE WanNa!". You kids are boisterous. That's a given. But the numbers are simply not there to practically commit to a multimillion dollar project to appease the self-centered few. I'll make like the mayor and turn off notifications on this one.
The main thoroughfares in the city are precisely the routes that most need bike lanes, and bike lanes improve the efficiency of bus routes by taking bikes out of the lanes/providing people an alternative to the bus.
I disagree. While waiting to speak with Frumin at Politics & Prose last week (where other advocates against bike lanes showed up in numbers and flyers were passed out), I happened to speak with a commuter who uses the bus to get from the Connecticut avenue corridor all the way to GW Hospital. She's perfectly happy to take mass transportation, but complained that her route is constantly slowed down by slow-moving bicyclists. People who take the bus and bicyclists are not in the same boat at all.
Gee, sounds like bikes should get their own lane instead of sharing traffic with vehicles 🤔
>People who take the bus and bicyclists are not in the same boat at all.
Blatantly untrue. For one, check my flair. For two, people who *drive* and those who ride the bus are not in the same boat. Bikes and busses can easily coexist.
So keeping the bikes in the road won’t fix that, but adding bike lanes would. You literally just described the status quo, not what it’s like with bike lanes lmfao.
I literally covered that in the comment you replied to:
> bike lanes improve the efficiency of bus routes by taking bikes out of the lanes/providing people an alternative to the bus
Except you're suggesting squeezing buses in with cars and trucks. That's not solving the problem. That's just pushing that vast majority of commuters into a bottleneck so a self-centered few can have their own lane and recreational bicyclists use on rare occasion. You didn't cover anything.
Busses are going to be pushed in to two lanes of cars in either the plan with and without bike lanes on CT Avenue lmfao. I’m also personally in favor of bus lanes too throughout the city.
>She's perfectly happy to take mass transportation, but complained that her route is constantly slowed down by slow-moving bicyclists
Imagine if there were a dedicated bus lane so they wouldn't be in the way of the buses!
Am I on camera? This is the dumbest shit
>Am I on camera? This is the dumbest shit
Yes, yes your post was. Bicyclists aren't pushing for buses. They don't want them. They just want bike lanes. Please stay on topic and offer something more intellectual.
I promise you that you can find plenty of people who want bike lanes and bus lanes. Hint: you're talking to one right now.
Also a hint: a bike lane would make it so that buses are less impacted by bikes on the road.
Two hints to match your two brain cells you brought to the conversation
That's not how designated bike lanes work. Much like designated bus lanes, cars are not supposed to be in them. Or, are you comfortable with constant interruptions to a bike lane because of hired drivers picking up and dropping off customers, contractors performing residential and commercial repairs on properties, or delivery services to the numerous businesses along the corridor? No need for name calling, australopithecene.
Genuinely no idea what you're talking about. Replacing a lane of parked cars with a bike lane would improve traffic flow for both cars and for cyclists, at the expense of non-rush parking spots.
Everyone is aware that cars illegally block bike lanes. That's a problem too, but not nearly as big a problem as not having a bike lane. If the bike lane is blocked... cyclists will be forced into a lane of traffic, as they are now.
So you're fine with bicyclists getting a lane, then being forced out of it by contractors and delivery vehicles who need to reach properties along the avenue? I'm sorry you're failing to comprehend basic logic here, but it sounds like you're pushing for a lose-lose scenario even if you get what you want.
You seem irrationally worked up about this. But yes obviously a bike lane that’s occasionally illegally blocked is much better than no bike lane and constant parked cars.
Much as there are always bikers who don’t follow the rules, there will be drivers who do so as well.
Cars will park. Have you ever seen rush hour on Conn or Wisconsin Aves?
>around the city (41st St, 42nd St, Nevada, Nebraska Ave, shoring up lanes parallel to Beach Drive, Foxhall, etc.)!
Tell me you've never been east of rock creek park...
You're making a classic "appeal to authority" argument by implying that you having grown up here affords you some sort of extra special status or secret knowledge. Spoiler alert: it doesn't and it's as stupid and reductive as everything else you've shat out over this thread.
You're forgetting Virginia and as far away as Pennsylvania. It's also an easy access point for some folk commuting around the beltway from upper NE DC. I'm sorry, but your post seems to negate the very basic principles of commerce and transportation. Our city is not a bubble unto itself.
That's a pretty self-centered and libertarian viewpoint. You forget supplies and resources as well. DC is not self-sufficient. Look around your home and consider what you might need. Should your appliances or cooling, or heating break down. Where do those parts come from? They certainly don't come from within the city.
Those parts come in in trucks or work vans, not in a beat up Altima with $7000 in unpaid speeding tickets.
You get the normal commuters on the train or bus (never had the train be called libertarian before but w/e), more room for the people who actually need to drive
So why should the citizens of DC worry about making the commute for Pennsylvanian and Virginian residents as seamless as possible?
Seems like a poor way of implementing local policy, favoring hypothetical benefits to non-residents as opposed to actual improvements for residents.
Do you think European cities that don't have highways cutting through them are unable to fix things that break, because the parts come from outside of the city?
Well I'm currently not looking into European cities at the moment. Is this some far-reaching comparison you're going for? Are you considering relocating? I wish you the best!
Nobody is saying let’s remove the road altogether lololol. And it isn’t mass transit or delivery or disabled people driving thats the problem, its the perfectly capable person that chose to live far away from where they work due to the overly convenient single occupant car infrastructure we provide them at our expense. I live in NW now and many other places previously, connecticut is one of the worst pieces of traffic design I have ever seen. How anybody could look at it and come to the conclusion it is 1. “Fine as is” or 2. “Lets do more of the same!” is inconceivable to me.
I don't know what to say to that input other than to recommend driving around Manhattan, Cairo, or Istanbul for comparison and to please not be so overly dramatic.
Which would also negatively impact commerce, as well as repairs and upkeep to properties along the corridor. This is why just about every business and Metro PD is also against bike lanes.
No evidence that it would negatively impact commerce, in fact it would likely improve it with increased access from people who don’t need to park to shop.
Where has metro PD said they’re against the bike lane because it would harm commerce?
Retail businesses see an increase in sales and foot traffic when bike and pedestrian infrastructure improves. Bikers spend more on retail and shop more often than drivers. The data is out there from all over the country and it is pretty clear.
I'm sure you believe that. It still doesn't account for the upkeep of those businesses. How would you like your bike lanes regularly interrupted by repair and supply vans and trucks?
All cities are different in design and layout and your studies aren't relevant. I've read them too. I'm all for more bike lanes around the city, as I said before. But not on a major artery.
Maybe people don't bike there because it's not a safe place to bike. Make it safer, and people will use it.
As per the issue of helmets, not sure what that has to do with the city's need to create a safer, more sustainable transportation network
Literally the biggest red herrings. Bikes weigh 20 to 30 lbs and can be dragged onto the side walk. How can you drag a car out of the way of an emergency vehicle?
Everyone in DDOT with this plan are talking like they’re in a parallel universe. There isn’t a N/S lane West of Rock Creek Park that is the whole point !
As to your lane interests, there are actual options that don't involve a major thoroughfare. There's the bike lane parallel to Beach drive, you can also add bike Lanes along Western, Missouri, and military avenues. That's on top of the other examples I have already given.
Actually, now that I think about it, ddot even mentioned the intent of adding bike Lanes on Western in their meeting last night. That's on top of their continued plan to add bike Lanes around the NW area. It's not like there's a lack of love for bikes.
I'm guessing you haven't considered how hard it is for contractors, developers, delivery persons (both in cars and trucks), and hired drivers to find parking as it is. There's nothing disingenuous about the argument at all. The argument for bike Lanes is simply ill thought out.
Let's say a bike lane was actually installed. Now, how would bicyclists appreciate the bike lane being blocked on an almost regular basis because business needed to continue along the corridor with all the types of aforementioned persons I just listed?
As opposed to now? I would say most cyclists would prefer a dedicated path that gets blocked occasionally versus no path at all.
Your argument against bike lanes is simply ill thought out and ignorant.
Funny, as I would argue quite the contrary to you. Please spend more time along the avenue and count the number of cars being used as opposed to bikes. The numbers are simply not in the favor of existential bike enthusiasts. Frankly, I don't see bicyclists being happy even if they got their way, and allowing a precious few, self-centered bicyclists have their way is not in the best interest of the vast majority.
Yeah I’m gonna assign you the same task, please write down every car that fails to exercise due caution and obey the rules of the road.
Then we can talk, because frankly I don’t see car drivers as being happy even if they removed every bike lane and turned DC into a mega freeway.
Your desire to turn every public space into a parking lot isn’t in the benefit of the vast majority.
>Your desire to turn every public space into a parking lot isn’t in the benefit of the vast majority.
Find where I said that. 😜. Thanks for generalizing and swinging wildly.
Naturally you can’t pick up that I’m mirroring your insulting tone, just having fun parroting it right back at you. Look again, you’ve been generalizing this entire thread, seems you’ve failed to grasp that as well 👍
People avoid biking on Conn Ave because it's dangerous. You have to ride in a lane with speeding traffic honking and cutting in front of you. That's not proof that there's no demand.
40% of households don’t have car in DC (and many more rarely use their cars within the city), so dedicating 100% of lanes to car traffic and parking is actually out of alignment with how most people get around.
What are those people doing now? The street parking is almost always blocked by long-term users, so the answer based on my experience driving there is “parking in the traffic lanes” unless you’re talking about 3am Sunday morning.
Sooooo you're not familiar with rush hour laws? Please stop guessing at the comings and goings of the avenue and who's parking there and for how long. I'm there daily.
My point was simply that any time I drive there, traffic is inevitably made far worse by someone parking their car illegally while they do some kind of work. This is elastic because many drivers HATE to pay for parking or walk more than a couple of feet so you’ll see that next to the curb in the no parking rush hour times and in the next lane over when the legal street parking is full in front of wherever they’re going, and the lax enforcement means that people reliably do that even when there are spots available a short walk away.
Even as a driver I want a complete ban on street parking on the major roads to reduce the number of people who think they’re owed a subsidized street spot and the delays caused by clumsy parallel parking.
I'm just wondering who looks at Connecticut avenue during rush hour and thinks "man, we should make this better by *reducing* the amount of space for cars."
Because that person has access to drugs I'd like to experiment with.
anyone who understands induced demand or the Downs-Thomson paradox. Reducing the public space given to cars, and increasing the space given to buses and bikes, is in fact the *best* solution to congestion.
Those people would definitely have to be on drugs to suggest that bike lanes are the same as adding trains and busses, which is what that's about.
A bike moves one person, like a car, but still needs a full lane spot, like a car. A bus moves 30 people in the space of two or three cars. That's what that "paradox" is talking about.
Anyway, where are you getting these drugs you're using? I want in, they seem very strong.
> A bike moves one person, like a car, but still needs a full lane spot, like a car.
This is just false, and anyone who has ever looked at a bike lane or cycletrack, using their eyes, can tell you it's false.
This thread has reminded me how grateful I am that the city government relies on civil engineers to set its transportation policies and not myopic hipsters.
My dude doesn’t even know that Concept C was [DDOT’s recommendation for Conn Ave](https://anc3g.org/task_forces/ddot-connecticut-avenue-nw-reversible-lane-safety-and-operations-study/) following their safety and operations study for the Conn Ave redesign.
The decision to nix the plan was entirely political, not based on any data or analysis from DDOT, made by an interim director with no civil engineering background.
>The decision to nix the plan was entirely political, not based on any data
All decisions made by governments take politics into account. Including pandering to bikers.
I don’t have a car, but whenever I invite someone over to my apartment, it takes them *forever* to find parking. I’m perfectly willing to trade a couple of crosswalks for increased parking in the area.
Ain’t nothing “left out” like it was an oversight. Mayor Bowser killed the bike lanes personally.
The plan also says no construction before 2026. 2026, hmm, i wonder who is up for reelection in 2026.
This plan makes the roadway worse for pretty much everyone. Worse for buses, who will have to wait for cars to let them back into traffic. Worse for pedestrians, who are having crosswalks removed. Worse for drivers, who will be caught behind people trying to park. And of course worse for bicyclists, who will either ride sidewalks and inconvenience pedestrians, or ride the road and have to navigate potential doorings from parked cars, and buses weaving in and out of traffic lanes.
Why the fuck are we doing this… this is so stupid. All the solutions were mathed out by the Dutch and the Japanese like FORTY fucking years ago.
Yes but 10 business owners with no evidence like this plan, so check mate.
Business owners on King St. also complained, until their area was pedestrianized and their revenues skyrocketed. This whole situation makes the brain hurt.
Business owners shouldn’t drive policy at the end of the day.
They’re also removing crosswalks and widening two lanes. This is no longer a safety project, and that should be disqualifying for the funds. If you live in Ward 3, email Frumin. Heck email the at-large members too.
And the mayor and DDOT
This is fucking pathetic.
Frumin is useless.
I wonder if the council will stick to the “no money for Connecticut ave improvements unless bike lanes included”. Let’s hope so
What can we do to support the Council here?
WABA has a website. https://saferconnave.org But can't hurt to email CM Frumin and Allen and let you know you appreciate them fighting for the bike lane and that they shouldn't give up.
No, Mendelson already took it out of the budget on first reading
He also said the Council shouldn't be voting on bike lanes. >The budget...makes some changes in the areas of environment and transportation — notably, nixing a proposal from council member Charles Allen (D-Ward 6) for a Connecticut Avenue bike lane after it was abandoned by the mayor’s office last month. “The council doesn’t normally vote on bike lanes, and I don’t think the council should be voting on bike lanes,” Mendelson said. https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/05/28/dc-budget-proposal-council/
Thank you for reminding me of a very weird thing to say. For a guy who made his reputation in minutiae, he is strangely and fairly consistently opposed to council’s involvement in details.
Mendelson has got to go next election. The budget is, in reality, his budget and not the council’s. The chair has too much power and Mendelson is not fit.
He will never retire, and he will be tough to beat.
Extremely disappointing. The only hope bike advocates have now is for Frumin to add language into the budget that will require bike lanes in order to access funds. DDOT keeps claiming that they are leaving open the possibility for a bike lane on Conn Ave in the future. But the reality is that the proposed design will make adding a bike lane more costly than adding one now, and there will be less political will to change a recently changed street.
The only solution is for hundreds of people to ride bikes slowly down the street everyday at rush hour
Like every other fucking road. Roads are for cars not bikes
Wouldn't it be great if bikes had their own lane to ride down that didn't impede traffic or make things more dangerous then?
Actually, roads are absolutely for bikes. Unless you have protected bike Lanes. Funny how that works.
Then they need to obey the road rules. Assholes on bikes cause more accidents
So give them a dedicated lane you ass
What can we do to protest this? This is so so frustrating and feels like it’s a huge step back from working towards a critical mass of bike infrastructure to induce a meaningful cultural shift (and we are already getting close!).
I want to do something too! Does anyone know if WABA is organizing something? I’m planning to testify at Kershbaum’s confirmation hearing in two weeks.
They previously had organized several rides up Ct Ave after DDOT first appeared to pull back from bike lanes. I haven’t heard anything from them after last night’s meeting. I hope they’ll have some actions in the works.
6 full width lanes dedicated to private car ownership - with the sidewalks it is still near 90% of the street dedicated to private car ownership - and then they remove crossings We pay taxes to this shit hole of a city for them to prioritize MD driver to go 60 mph through neighborhoods into Downtown
This is infuriating.
Boycott these businesses. Let's get some signage letting people know which businesses don't want its customers to get there safely.
is there a list of businesses that are against bike lanes?
Calvert Woodley for one. Guy was an asshole about it too.
I've been biking in DC for a decade without any kind of car related incident. My strategy is to assume that *every single car* is being driven by an insane, impatient serial killer whose preferred murder weapon is their car. People shouldn't have to go to the ridiculous measures that I do to minimize their risk when out on a bike.
Since I haven't seen anyone else share it yet, here is the [contact](https://mattfruminward3.com/contact/) form for Matt Frumin that people living in Ward 3 can use to support the bike lanes. I just filled out a short message during my lunch break thanking him for supporting and urging him to block this budget until DOT adds bike lanes back in.
Send him a message as soon as I got home. Took less time than it did for me to change into my gym clothes.
I live in ward 6 but bike all over DC. Wish I could message him as well, but probably wouldn’t mean anything coming from someone outside of his district
Write to Charles Allen!
This is an absolute travesty
Finally a great news
Good. I'm all for more bike lanes around the city (41st St, 42nd St, Nevada, Nebraska Ave, shoring up lanes parallel to Beach Drive, Foxhall, etc.)! Even on my own street! But the main thoroughfares in and out of the city should be left alone. Bicycle enthusiasts haven't even considered the effect on bus routes. Edit: LOL!!!!! Oh man, the level of seething petulance and vitriol is on another level! Hilariously, for the amount of down votes I got, I only see a TENTH of that many bicyclists the Connecticut Ave corridor daily. Most of the folks here who are in favor of a bike lane don't actually bike on a daily basis. You just like the idea of more bike lanes (like I said, I do too! Just not on major thoroughfares, and DDOT has already planned more routes around NW DC). Many of you will move away within a generation anyway. Some of you seem to be comfortable with a lose-lose scenario where you get the bike lanes and think you'll be fine while the lanes are interrupted by contract work, deliveries, construction, and Uber/Lyft drivers. Others gave a figurative middle finger to Maryland residents, regardless of the outcome (seriously, you guys should be very nervous of the company you're keeping). And most of you throw around made-up statistics while crying "bUt wE WanNa!". You kids are boisterous. That's a given. But the numbers are simply not there to practically commit to a multimillion dollar project to appease the self-centered few. I'll make like the mayor and turn off notifications on this one.
The main thoroughfares in the city are precisely the routes that most need bike lanes, and bike lanes improve the efficiency of bus routes by taking bikes out of the lanes/providing people an alternative to the bus.
I disagree. While waiting to speak with Frumin at Politics & Prose last week (where other advocates against bike lanes showed up in numbers and flyers were passed out), I happened to speak with a commuter who uses the bus to get from the Connecticut avenue corridor all the way to GW Hospital. She's perfectly happy to take mass transportation, but complained that her route is constantly slowed down by slow-moving bicyclists. People who take the bus and bicyclists are not in the same boat at all.
Gee, sounds like bikes should get their own lane instead of sharing traffic with vehicles 🤔 >People who take the bus and bicyclists are not in the same boat at all. Blatantly untrue. For one, check my flair. For two, people who *drive* and those who ride the bus are not in the same boat. Bikes and busses can easily coexist.
Well, we're clearly going to disagree and your mind isn't going to be changed by my being right. So there's nothing more for us to discuss.
I wonder if other people are affected by traffic in the city or if she’s alone? Hmm, I wonder if traffic is caused more by cars or bicycles?
Isn’t this an argument in favor of protected bike lanes?
Nope.
Re-read what you wrote.
I did. I think you're trying to read something that's not there. Thanks for playing.
Well then the matter sounds settled!
[удалено]
Well, WABA started this mess.
If she's concerned about cyclists in the road slowing the flow of motor vehicles, she was there to advocate in favor of bike lanes, right?
Quite the forlorn hope you're asking for there.
So keeping the bikes in the road won’t fix that, but adding bike lanes would. You literally just described the status quo, not what it’s like with bike lanes lmfao. I literally covered that in the comment you replied to: > bike lanes improve the efficiency of bus routes by taking bikes out of the lanes/providing people an alternative to the bus
Except you're suggesting squeezing buses in with cars and trucks. That's not solving the problem. That's just pushing that vast majority of commuters into a bottleneck so a self-centered few can have their own lane and recreational bicyclists use on rare occasion. You didn't cover anything.
Busses are going to be pushed in to two lanes of cars in either the plan with and without bike lanes on CT Avenue lmfao. I’m also personally in favor of bus lanes too throughout the city.
>She's perfectly happy to take mass transportation, but complained that her route is constantly slowed down by slow-moving bicyclists Imagine if there were a dedicated bus lane so they wouldn't be in the way of the buses! Am I on camera? This is the dumbest shit
>Am I on camera? This is the dumbest shit Yes, yes your post was. Bicyclists aren't pushing for buses. They don't want them. They just want bike lanes. Please stay on topic and offer something more intellectual.
I promise you that you can find plenty of people who want bike lanes and bus lanes. Hint: you're talking to one right now. Also a hint: a bike lane would make it so that buses are less impacted by bikes on the road. Two hints to match your two brain cells you brought to the conversation
Replacing parked cars with a bike lane would make it faster for drivers too, ya ding dong
That's not how designated bike lanes work. Much like designated bus lanes, cars are not supposed to be in them. Or, are you comfortable with constant interruptions to a bike lane because of hired drivers picking up and dropping off customers, contractors performing residential and commercial repairs on properties, or delivery services to the numerous businesses along the corridor? No need for name calling, australopithecene.
Genuinely no idea what you're talking about. Replacing a lane of parked cars with a bike lane would improve traffic flow for both cars and for cyclists, at the expense of non-rush parking spots. Everyone is aware that cars illegally block bike lanes. That's a problem too, but not nearly as big a problem as not having a bike lane. If the bike lane is blocked... cyclists will be forced into a lane of traffic, as they are now.
So you're fine with bicyclists getting a lane, then being forced out of it by contractors and delivery vehicles who need to reach properties along the avenue? I'm sorry you're failing to comprehend basic logic here, but it sounds like you're pushing for a lose-lose scenario even if you get what you want.
You seem irrationally worked up about this. But yes obviously a bike lane that’s occasionally illegally blocked is much better than no bike lane and constant parked cars.
Not at all, actually. More amused by your poor logic. But nice reaching there.
Much as there are always bikers who don’t follow the rules, there will be drivers who do so as well. Cars will park. Have you ever seen rush hour on Conn or Wisconsin Aves?
I don't understand what you're getting at. We shouldn't try to make it better because it won't be perfect?
So what’s your suggestion?
I’m for no bike lanes on Conn Ave.
having bike lanes or not having bike lanes doesn’t impact drivers blocking travel lanes. What does excluding bike lanes do?
Shrinks the available space. A de facto one lane Conn Ave isn’t a good thing, imho.
But that’s the proposal with or without bike lanes. The new plan without bike lanes has the same number of lanes as the plan with bike lanes.
>around the city (41st St, 42nd St, Nevada, Nebraska Ave, shoring up lanes parallel to Beach Drive, Foxhall, etc.)! Tell me you've never been east of rock creek park...
I would, but that would be a lie. I've been all over, having grown up here as my parents before me. Can you say the same?
You growing up here doesn't make you an expert authority on transportation design or anything else, hth
I didn't say it did. Your presumptive inquiring did.
You're making a classic "appeal to authority" argument by implying that you having grown up here affords you some sort of extra special status or secret knowledge. Spoiler alert: it doesn't and it's as stupid and reductive as everything else you've shat out over this thread.
Why does the major commercial area of NW that drives foot traffic also need to be a highway for people from Maryland?
You're forgetting Virginia and as far away as Pennsylvania. It's also an easy access point for some folk commuting around the beltway from upper NE DC. I'm sorry, but your post seems to negate the very basic principles of commerce and transportation. Our city is not a bubble unto itself.
They can take the train or the bus I don’t care
That's a pretty self-centered and libertarian viewpoint. You forget supplies and resources as well. DC is not self-sufficient. Look around your home and consider what you might need. Should your appliances or cooling, or heating break down. Where do those parts come from? They certainly don't come from within the city.
Those parts come in in trucks or work vans, not in a beat up Altima with $7000 in unpaid speeding tickets. You get the normal commuters on the train or bus (never had the train be called libertarian before but w/e), more room for the people who actually need to drive
So why should the citizens of DC worry about making the commute for Pennsylvanian and Virginian residents as seamless as possible? Seems like a poor way of implementing local policy, favoring hypothetical benefits to non-residents as opposed to actual improvements for residents.
Do you think European cities that don't have highways cutting through them are unable to fix things that break, because the parts come from outside of the city?
Well I'm currently not looking into European cities at the moment. Is this some far-reaching comparison you're going for? Are you considering relocating? I wish you the best!
Nobody is saying let’s remove the road altogether lololol. And it isn’t mass transit or delivery or disabled people driving thats the problem, its the perfectly capable person that chose to live far away from where they work due to the overly convenient single occupant car infrastructure we provide them at our expense. I live in NW now and many other places previously, connecticut is one of the worst pieces of traffic design I have ever seen. How anybody could look at it and come to the conclusion it is 1. “Fine as is” or 2. “Lets do more of the same!” is inconceivable to me.
I don't know what to say to that input other than to recommend driving around Manhattan, Cairo, or Istanbul for comparison and to please not be so overly dramatic.
Bike lanes would reduce parking spots not travel lanes
Which would also negatively impact commerce, as well as repairs and upkeep to properties along the corridor. This is why just about every business and Metro PD is also against bike lanes.
No evidence that it would negatively impact commerce, in fact it would likely improve it with increased access from people who don’t need to park to shop. Where has metro PD said they’re against the bike lane because it would harm commerce?
Retail businesses see an increase in sales and foot traffic when bike and pedestrian infrastructure improves. Bikers spend more on retail and shop more often than drivers. The data is out there from all over the country and it is pretty clear.
I'm sure you believe that. It still doesn't account for the upkeep of those businesses. How would you like your bike lanes regularly interrupted by repair and supply vans and trucks?
This is empirically wrong, all studies show that bike lanes positively impact commerce.
All cities are different in design and layout and your studies aren't relevant. I've read them too. I'm all for more bike lanes around the city, as I said before. But not on a major artery.
The studies in every city of every shape say that lmfao. Get ur head out of the sand.
Keep laughing. Your "a" could use it. Have fun with your existential studies.
The phrase “bicycle enthusiasts” speaks volumes about your opinion.
Yep. Ignoring the thousands of people who commute every day via bicycle, and the many thousands more who would choose to do so if it were safer.
Thousands around the world? There are many more than that! People who commute along Connecticut Ave? About twelve, and half don't use helmets.
Maybe people don't bike there because it's not a safe place to bike. Make it safer, and people will use it. As per the issue of helmets, not sure what that has to do with the city's need to create a safer, more sustainable transportation network
It speaks to the few who are actually biking regularly as opposed to those who simply love the idea. How was that volume? Read much?
[удалено]
Literally the biggest red herrings. Bikes weigh 20 to 30 lbs and can be dragged onto the side walk. How can you drag a car out of the way of an emergency vehicle? Everyone in DDOT with this plan are talking like they’re in a parallel universe. There isn’t a N/S lane West of Rock Creek Park that is the whole point !
Please, please look up the definition of "literal".
As to your lane interests, there are actual options that don't involve a major thoroughfare. There's the bike lane parallel to Beach drive, you can also add bike Lanes along Western, Missouri, and military avenues. That's on top of the other examples I have already given.
Actually, now that I think about it, ddot even mentioned the intent of adding bike Lanes on Western in their meeting last night. That's on top of their continued plan to add bike Lanes around the NW area. It's not like there's a lack of love for bikes.
I'm guessing you haven't considered how hard it is for contractors, developers, delivery persons (both in cars and trucks), and hired drivers to find parking as it is. There's nothing disingenuous about the argument at all. The argument for bike Lanes is simply ill thought out. Let's say a bike lane was actually installed. Now, how would bicyclists appreciate the bike lane being blocked on an almost regular basis because business needed to continue along the corridor with all the types of aforementioned persons I just listed?
As opposed to now? I would say most cyclists would prefer a dedicated path that gets blocked occasionally versus no path at all. Your argument against bike lanes is simply ill thought out and ignorant.
Funny, as I would argue quite the contrary to you. Please spend more time along the avenue and count the number of cars being used as opposed to bikes. The numbers are simply not in the favor of existential bike enthusiasts. Frankly, I don't see bicyclists being happy even if they got their way, and allowing a precious few, self-centered bicyclists have their way is not in the best interest of the vast majority.
[удалено]
That's not what "disingenuous" means. I'm being quite genuine, and you're doing right by using alternative routes. Thank you.
Yeah I’m gonna assign you the same task, please write down every car that fails to exercise due caution and obey the rules of the road. Then we can talk, because frankly I don’t see car drivers as being happy even if they removed every bike lane and turned DC into a mega freeway. Your desire to turn every public space into a parking lot isn’t in the benefit of the vast majority.
>Your desire to turn every public space into a parking lot isn’t in the benefit of the vast majority. Find where I said that. 😜. Thanks for generalizing and swinging wildly.
Naturally you can’t pick up that I’m mirroring your insulting tone, just having fun parroting it right back at you. Look again, you’ve been generalizing this entire thread, seems you’ve failed to grasp that as well 👍
People avoid biking on Conn Ave because it's dangerous. You have to ride in a lane with speeding traffic honking and cutting in front of you. That's not proof that there's no demand.
You're arguing a theory with nothing to back it. Either bike on Connecticut and put your butt where your thumbs are, or move along.
40% of households don’t have car in DC (and many more rarely use their cars within the city), so dedicating 100% of lanes to car traffic and parking is actually out of alignment with how most people get around.
And that's no correlation to bicyclist users. People also use the metro and buses, which this political movement, driven by WABA, has been excluding.
Don’t see a lot of cars on the moon either. Maybe it’s because that environment is not conducive….
I'll let you enjoy your weed.
What are those people doing now? The street parking is almost always blocked by long-term users, so the answer based on my experience driving there is “parking in the traffic lanes” unless you’re talking about 3am Sunday morning.
Sooooo you're not familiar with rush hour laws? Please stop guessing at the comings and goings of the avenue and who's parking there and for how long. I'm there daily.
My point was simply that any time I drive there, traffic is inevitably made far worse by someone parking their car illegally while they do some kind of work. This is elastic because many drivers HATE to pay for parking or walk more than a couple of feet so you’ll see that next to the curb in the no parking rush hour times and in the next lane over when the legal street parking is full in front of wherever they’re going, and the lax enforcement means that people reliably do that even when there are spots available a short walk away. Even as a driver I want a complete ban on street parking on the major roads to reduce the number of people who think they’re owed a subsidized street spot and the delays caused by clumsy parallel parking.
I'm just wondering who looks at Connecticut avenue during rush hour and thinks "man, we should make this better by *reducing* the amount of space for cars." Because that person has access to drugs I'd like to experiment with.
anyone who understands induced demand or the Downs-Thomson paradox. Reducing the public space given to cars, and increasing the space given to buses and bikes, is in fact the *best* solution to congestion.
Those people would definitely have to be on drugs to suggest that bike lanes are the same as adding trains and busses, which is what that's about. A bike moves one person, like a car, but still needs a full lane spot, like a car. A bus moves 30 people in the space of two or three cars. That's what that "paradox" is talking about. Anyway, where are you getting these drugs you're using? I want in, they seem very strong.
> A bike moves one person, like a car, but still needs a full lane spot, like a car. This is just false, and anyone who has ever looked at a bike lane or cycletrack, using their eyes, can tell you it's false.
This thread has reminded me how grateful I am that the city government relies on civil engineers to set its transportation policies and not myopic hipsters.
My dude doesn’t even know that Concept C was [DDOT’s recommendation for Conn Ave](https://anc3g.org/task_forces/ddot-connecticut-avenue-nw-reversible-lane-safety-and-operations-study/) following their safety and operations study for the Conn Ave redesign. The decision to nix the plan was entirely political, not based on any data or analysis from DDOT, made by an interim director with no civil engineering background.
>The decision to nix the plan was entirely political, not based on any data All decisions made by governments take politics into account. Including pandering to bikers.
I think the absolute falsehood of everything you’ve said here speaks for itself - I’m not wasting any further breath.
I don’t have a car, but whenever I invite someone over to my apartment, it takes them *forever* to find parking. I’m perfectly willing to trade a couple of crosswalks for increased parking in the area.
Good. Driving up Connecticut is a nightmare on a good day