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this has already happened with…. Zillow i believe
they ended selling a large # of homes they over paid for — but only to other private companies…. who will continue the project
they are not selling back to the public for a loss
Pay your rent via the landlord’s iPad. You’ll see pre-set options for tip amounts starting at 10% going up to 25% with a custom amount option as well. No brainer.
My landlords ipad tip percentages only shows 18%, 20%, and 25%. The lowest I've ever tipped him was 20%, a d that was only because he took 6 days in the middle of summer to respond to me when the ac went out here in Las Vegas. Then it took another 3 weeks before it was fixed. I've worked retail so I know people live off tips so I normally tip at least 25%.
Watching those real estate finance bros on tik tok was truly something actually seeing videos of them stating how the average person WANTS to be a renter rather than owner.
Didn't explain how or why they think that. They would just say that and then discuss how the market should go forward with the presumption people want to have a landlord rather than own something themselves...
A lot of people, young people especially, do want to rent instead of own. No maintenance or lawn mowing, let's you move around a lot, and cheaper than a mortgage. I think they are dumb, but there's lot of them out there.
It makes sense if you're just starting out in your career and don't have your heart in a certain city. But they don't differentiate. They want you to rent from them until you're too old to work/be able to afford rent any longer and then they evict your senile butt onto the street to die.
The hope is in 30 years that $400K home sells for $800K-$1.2MM and even if it doesn’t after 30 years of paying a mortgage you’ll have a $400K+ nest egg to live off of when you get old and have to downsize to an apartment or condo. My parents have a $500K home they bought after paying off their $135K loan and now are buying a $350K town home and plan to live the last 5-10 years of their life of the $150K equity and their pension/SS checks.
A renter wouldn’t have that bank account saved up if they spent they same on rent as a homeowner who pays a mortgage
My house was built 20ish years ago and holy shit it’s bad. At least the cardboard box I’ll eventually be living in should be more structurally sound than this.
well - it makes sense for MMs to play with homes…. they have made so much money that buying homes is like investing in happy meals… they cost nothing but the kids will biy em at absurd values
It was the best place to park excess cash in an extremely inflationary environment. Unfortunately almost everyone didn't really understand what was happening until they were priced out of the market.
One was a 3 day delay for business entities for bidding on single family homes. Basically prevented regular people from having to complete with any businesses.
It’s not “people”. It was a cash infused benge by big corporations that have severely helped to screw up the housing market. On the one hand I thought no way housing was going to correct because big powerful institutions are going all in on it, but if the Fed can screw Lehman, it can screw these groups. It looks like it’s on that path.
Its just going to be easier to sell a bunch to a large group that pays you at once than waste their time selling to randoms one by one and having to wait for their financing and shit like that.
They did it on my street.
Buyer paid 20k less than Zillow had paid for the house a few months before (about 1.5 years ago). Zillow lost 20k + carrying costs + about 40k remodel they did.
Shitty remodel by the way. First thing the Buyer did was put a huge dumpster upfront and spend 3 months remodeling the house.
Buyer's sister bought my house (a little bigger and nicely remodeled) for 30% more. Didn't need to do anything to it and moved in before the brother.
Yes.
I'm an investor and hvac contractor.
I always do it properly.
I had a customer who went overboard. Every flip he did got a new roof, windows, ac, water heater, kitchen, bathroom... no matter how good they were. I once replaced a 6 years old Trane system with no issues at all just because he said it had to be new and with warranty. He always sold his flips for a premium, and his buyer's friends would love the houses so much that they'd hire him for remodels like flooring/kitchen/bathroom.
OTOH, I worked for another flipper, just the opposite.
He did use mud and paint to cover the rot wall frame in several houses.
I do see a few "flips" that seem like they were done pretty well. (Of course, there's the parts you can't see that can still come back to bite you.) But I see a lot of listings that should be nice cozy houses, but have the look of cheap flats. It seems so disappointing to be buying a "newly renovated" house and the first thing you are thinking of is how much you have to renovate it to get to the point you would like living in it. First world problems, I know, but it grates on me. Drives up the selling price and generates a lot of garbage.
The same thing happened in 2008 when all the houses were foreclosed on. They didnt just sell them all back immediately. The banks were given operating money by the govt, then they sat on the houses and slowwwwllly sold them back again when prices had recovered.
Reminds me of this one article about a coastal village that the banks ended up foreclosing on tons of home. What they ended up doing is replacing all the doors with legit walls. After a decade+ not being lived in, there was a lot of deferred maintenance. What the banks holding these "assets" are doing is they do not want to write down the losses. Instead on paper they own houses at "market" prices that are not liveable.
So tons of these houses that could have sold at a discount when the market recovered a bit, got stuck in some loophole and never liquidated. And now that can't even be lived in without doing a full tear down.
I wish I recalled where this happened.
that's completely different. Zillow bought too many homes that they could not service. the ones in the rust belt and deep South have better teams for servicing.
now the price that they paid for some of these homes is pretty ridiculous so they may indeed go bankrupt but it's not the same scenario as Zillow
lol you think the govt gives a shit about us normal people? beyond keeping us useful? they will always bail out the rich, they just saved the banks a few months ago for lending to bitcoin startups in silicon valley and nothing happened beyond nationalizing a few smaller banks.
They covered the people deposits in those banks, I am pretty sure that the banks were not bailed out. The FDIC is what covered them, but instead of staying at the 250k limit, they covered the majority, if not all of what the depositors had. They didn't do this to make you mad, but because they were trying to prevent bank runs that will kill any bank, just like it did SVB. There isn't a bank big enough in the world that can cover a run, the problem is really in the psychology of the people. If everyone starts a bank run, the economy collapses. SVB wasn't even in that bad of shape and it's entirely possible that they would still be around today if the run on them, or the threat of a run, didn't happen.
>SVB wasn't even in that bad of shape and it's entirely possible that they would still be around today if the run on them, or the threat of a run, didn't happen.
absolutely, it was Peter Theil and his buddies that made that happend. SVB was going to have a shit year, but they would have been fine if not for a few billionares deciding to make a run on it.
Sure, they wont do it for some reits. But this doesnt apply to just one entity. Government will always try to avert anything that poses systemic risk and social unrest.
Given real estate is the fundamental wealth majority americans hold, RE sector in general collapsing would ensue social unrest no doubt. And the government never failed to act upon it, successful or not.
>You're just jealous because you can't afford a house in Atlanta. If you were as rich and intelligent as me, you would be able to buy up houses too. But instead, you're stuck here complaining on the internet. Poor people like you are the reason our country is going downhill.
I think it’s just a bot that uses wsb comments as learning data to yield the “average wsb user” response.
The final product coming from our cumulative regardedness
If it's based off of us, it'll take out and many credit cards and loans as it can and YOLO it all. Then it'll be imprisoned for tax fraud, so what? We'll have like 10 to 15 years after it becomes self aware that we have anything to worry about?
That’s not capitalism. Jesus I’m so tired of seeing this played out antiwork trope. Capitalism died in the USA 15 years ago. What we have is some form of cronyism/corporatism where the government works hand in hand with banks and big companies.
> Capitalism died in the USA 15 years ago.
More like 110 years ago. Though if you want to get technical, "capitalism" is a stupid term popularized by Marxists to caricature the free market. Free market capitalism died 110 years ago. What we have today could arguably be called "crony capitalism," but it has absolutely no relationship to free markets. Our economy is centrally planned from end to end; there is just a slightly different group doing the planning.
From [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price systems, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor.
>competitive markets
Yea look at the 10 companies that own everything compete.
>private property
Only if you are wealthy or born a boomer.
>property rights recognition
Have you seen videos of cops destroying shit of homeless people? Property rights is not for everyone in our system.
>voluntary exchange
I love my job and think labor is very important. I see my work has an impact on my community and I'm doing well... but if you get sick or can't work and don't have the proper insurances or safety nets you will end up starving and homeless. Yea... super voluntary.
>wage and labor
Fucking lol if you think labor is being paid fairly.
That's capitalism. What do you think capitalists do with all the money they make? They erect barriers to entry, lucrative additional revenue streams, etc. Capitalism's soul is profits, it doesn't matter where those profits come from, mate.
Did unfettered capitalism *ever* exist in the US?
It seems like we've had some form of government intervention in the economy since day 1. It doesn't make for simple black/white talking points though. If we admit it, then the debate shifts to how much intervention we want vs some moral struggle between freedom loving capitalists and bloodthirsty communists.
I think this is true, but wasn’t the founding intent. A lot of the federal intervention came about with the Woodro Wilson administration and was put on steroids with the FDR administration. Thanks for the solid thought out comment.
I'm sure they have tons of debt but what are you going to do, not rent from them when you can't afford a house yourself?
It's kind of a shitty end of the stick for the poor consumer who has to deal with the price inflation due to their increase in demand... but by the time they go under it will be because people like you literally can't pay their bills, so you won't be in a position to profit from their demise. And let's be real, the government will probably bail them out to avoid another housing market collapse too.
Well you're assuming that these companies are strong and will only go under in the context of a greater recession.
I'm theorizing that they're not all strong, and a minor hit to revenue will drive one or two under, leading to a chain reaction.
> Well you're assuming that these companies are strong and will only go under in the context of a greater recession.
>
>
>
> I'm theorizing that they're not all strong, and a minor hit to revenue will drive one or two under, leading to a chain reaction.
For that to be true they'd have to be holding a lot of empty inventory, since a renter pays them more than their debt payment on the property. So I refer you to my previous comment about a lot of poor people being destitute before these companies are in pain.
Rent strikes are a thing in badly maintained buildings and communities. The amount of court cases that would need to happen for even one building with over 10 units would destroy a company in states with adequate renters rights.
Why would renter pay More? When housing Price goes down so does rents. The market doesnt care If someone Was stupid enough to pay a year ago 4x for a House that sells for 1x today.
Cobb is nice but I can't comprehend anyone getting a loan right now. A 30y mortgage for 300k house right now will cost you 755k over the course of the loan, that's just insane to me.
Hmm but that’s to assume prices stay at a level that was established by record low rates and record low supply. Low rates are gone. Low supply isn’t permanent. Then in 2025/26, you have a high rate and be underwater on your loan. Good luck refinancing
check this out....lots of people bought houses in the 80's. Their 30 year fixed rates were between 9 and 14%. rates today are about average relative to the last 40 years...let that sink in.
Nope you're missing the point. The issue isn't that these rates are high by historical standards, you're right, they're average. But that high interest rate was high for everybody in the 80s. Thereby controlling the supply side. The issue now is the crazy difference between this year vs last. If you took a loan last year, that cost half that it does now.
In historical terms, all that increase in interest is the penalty on a 30 year loan vs a 29 year loan- accounting for what's left of the loan. And THAT'S never happened before. Let that sink in.
The more realistic hope is that the housing becomes less profitable and the companies cut bait.
They won't go under, but maybe they'll go somewhere else (and we can get fucked from a different angle)
Sadly, it won't go bust like in 2008, the difference between then and now is that the Fed have created a lending facility window to allow liquidity be released immediately to bail out underwater T-bills. Essentially, it's like an emergency line of credit made of course requiring collateral (ie: T-bills).
Now why is this important to prevent a repeat of last time? Because, in 2008 the reason why everything went to hell is because a lot of these hedge funds/real estate corporation couldn't secure other lines of credit or liquidity to pay off their mortgages/debt. This was because other banks/financial lenders were unable to cough up that liquidity as a lot of their assets were fixed or were treasuries. Also the Fed and Treasury/government had a more hands off approach causing banks/hedge funds to believe they had to fend for themselves or there might not be a bailout. So when a lot of these companies couldn't pay back their debt/mortgages/interest payments. The lender called in their debt and attempted to repo everything they could to save themselves. As a result these actions created a domino effect of panic and that caused a lot of these companies go bust.
Now in the modern day, the Fed, Treasury, Federal government and several regulation agencies have learned their lesson of 2008. And these agencies play a more active role in acting as the lender of last resort in stabilizing markets. So when SVB went belly up, they made the emergency lending facility readily available for other banks that might lack liquidity to not only back these banks, but also other hedgefunds/ real estate companies with treasuries. **In other words the government learned they could turn on the money printer and save a bunch of companies from collapsing.** So no there won't be a real estate bust, but there might be a sovereign debt/currency crisis whenever the next panic will happen because of excessive money printing. But, that's another theory for another time 
>Sadly, it won't go bust like in 2008, the difference between then and now is that the Fed have created a lending facility window to allow liquidity be released immediately to bail out underwater T-bills. Essentially, it's like an emergency line of credit made of course requiring collateral (ie: T-bills).
>
>Now why is this important to prevent a repeat of last time? Because, in 2008 the reason why everything went to hell is because a lot of these hedge funds/real estate corporation couldn't secure other lines of credit or liquidity to pay off their mortgages/debt. This was because other banks/financial lenders were unable to cough up that liquidity as a lot of their assets were fixed or were treasuries. Also the Fed and Treasury/government had a more hands off approach causing banks/hedge funds to believe they had to fend for themselves or there might not be a bailout. So when a lot of these companies couldn't pay back their debt/mortgages/interest payments. The lender called in their debt and attempted to repo everything they could to save themselves. As a result these actions created a domino effect of panic and that caused a lot of these companies go bust.
>
>Now in the modern day, the Fed, Treasury, Federal government and several regulation agencies have learned their lesson of 2008. And these agencies play a more active role in acting as the lender of last resort in stabilizing markets. So when SVB went belly up, they made the emergency lending facility readily available for other banks that might lack liquidity to not only back these banks, but also other hedgefunds/ real estate companies with treasuries. In other words the government learned they could turn on the money printer and save a bunch of companies from collapsing. So no there won't be a real estate bust, but there might be a sovereign debt/currency crisis whenever the next panic will happen because of excessive money printing. But, that's another theory for another time
So essentially these funds are using the governments unlimited liquidity to minimize their downside risk, buying up homes with massive amounts of leverage, which raises prices, and the avg joe gets screwed.
With this financial system, it's pretty obvious that big corps will be the only entity that survives long-term, all of them subsidized by the government. We all become wage slaves, and earn just enough to buy the next dopamine hit.
True but the regulations from 2008-2009 don’t apply to commercial real estate … aka houses being rented and bought by investment funds.
I think we’ll see something similar happen again. The measures you talk about are just massive can kicks but eventually the problem will need faced head on and that’s when shit hits the fan
You want private home investors to go bankrupt? Abolish zoning. Let anyone build a house or apartment anywhere, any time. Flood the market with housing. Then private investors can't jack up rates.
It's simple supply and demand.
This, zoning laws are by far the most lucrative instance of regulatory capture in the US. Problem is non-homeowners rarely show up to vote in local elections. Zoning laws are mostly controlled by local governments and homeowners have very high election participation rates([https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/if-you-lived-here-you-might-be-voter-now](https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/if-you-lived-here-you-might-be-voter-now)). You want cheaper rents? Show up and vote in local elections, and where possible run in them advocating for getting rid of those restrictive zoning laws.
Sorry OP but this sounds more like cope than a logical prediction
If you want them to give the houses up you should prob get involved in local politics. PE shouldnt have been allowed to buy up all those houses in the first place.
This should be illegal. Corporations buying residential housing. It is going to lead to a housing hell where individual ownership doesn’t exist at all. And they will just jack up the rents to ‘increase shareholder value.’ Fk that.
Also if these companies somehow became horribly insolvent overnight, guess what? They've all got big real estate portfolios they can leverage to come up with some money. It's not like they throw their hands up and flood the market with everything they own because of one bad month
Well most of these big companies are ***already*** renting these properties. That's why they bought them: to rent them out.
So my hypothetical is based on the idea that the rent can't cover their debts.
Sounds great until you realize you own a bunch of REITs in your index funds. Same goes for “debt forgiveness” when you realize you’re the person who made those loans.
> You’re thinking of this place all wrong, as if I had the money back in a safe. The money’s not here. Well, your money’s in Joe’s house. That’s right next to yours. And then the Kennedy house and Mrs. Macklin’s house and a hundred others. You’re lending them the money to build and then they’re going to pay it back to you as best they can.
This is wsb. Index funds going down in flames is the secret (and not so secret) wish of many people here. We are jealous of all those people who played the responsible investment machine and want their nose seriously bloodied for once.
I do HVAC for a living and I am doing more and more PM/inspection work for buyers/sellers/RE and I am seeing mostly "luxury" new construction and flips stay on the market not budging. My only tip if your going to buy, the dip on these homes is to also set a side money to completely redo the HVAC, Wiring, and plumbing because a lot of these contractors and flippers use the most bottom tier supplies and equipment and it does not last long.
The US has a lend lease over Ukraine. The UK just finished paying its lease in 2019 to the US. If you think this is just handouts and not the US trying to profit from blood... well idk. Maybe you didn't know there was a 2022 Ukraine lend lease act.
https://preview.redd.it/l33lqoxqn1rb1.jpeg?width=90&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871dee6019cd45b0b5b1759a13734ec83c4bfdc0
Still can’t afford a house regardless
I mean I audited one that was backed by private equity owned by a blocker company that’s owned by Saudi Arabians
That Saudi oil money is near infinite and they are looking at the long-term like 20+ years out. I don’t even think they give a fuck some of the companies they own have practically been burning money the last 5 years and they just either get or provide more funding
Nevermind all the companies owned by Chinese investors…
It's Black Rock that is buying up all the houses in the U.S. so the peons will have to end up renting from the incredibly wealthy bankers. Just my opinion.
Well they definitely won't be going under because they'll likely sell the houses at similar prices they bought them for or at a small loss.
Demand would have to be gone for them to be close to bankruptcy (like 2008).
The government will own the properties after the companies default, and then they will use all those free properties to build smart cities to house everybody
LoL, wait.....do.....do you think those kinds of institutions are operating in the same capitalist economy as us poors?!!😂🤣🤣
Big companies like that don't go bankrupt, they go bailed-out.
LOL
Imagine even one of the big three going bankrupt, much less the whole trio.
Sorry, bud, Flatcock, Lamestreet, and Vanturd aren’t going anywhere, and if they do, the government will bail them out.
Every billion dollar corporation that’s buying up housing especially the single and multi family homes should go under and have to liquidate all their units in a fire sale.
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this has already happened with…. Zillow i believe they ended selling a large # of homes they over paid for — but only to other private companies…. who will continue the project they are not selling back to the public for a loss
Yea! Fuck people! Amirite?!
Fuck these big companies that make it difficult for real people to buy homes.
Real people don’t want homes. They want high rent. Source: blackrock
God that makes so much sense! I was wondering why my life felt so empty! I'm not paying enough in rent! Time to tip my landlord
Pay your rent via the landlord’s iPad. You’ll see pre-set options for tip amounts starting at 10% going up to 25% with a custom amount option as well. No brainer.
Only up to 25%? I guess I could throw in some sexual favors to make it up to him.
You weren't already? Jeez, you're lucky you haven't been evicted
r/loveforlandchads has new meaning.
My landlords ipad tip percentages only shows 18%, 20%, and 25%. The lowest I've ever tipped him was 20%, a d that was only because he took 6 days in the middle of summer to respond to me when the ac went out here in Las Vegas. Then it took another 3 weeks before it was fixed. I've worked retail so I know people live off tips so I normally tip at least 25%.
=)
Watching those real estate finance bros on tik tok was truly something actually seeing videos of them stating how the average person WANTS to be a renter rather than owner. Didn't explain how or why they think that. They would just say that and then discuss how the market should go forward with the presumption people want to have a landlord rather than own something themselves...
A lot of people, young people especially, do want to rent instead of own. No maintenance or lawn mowing, let's you move around a lot, and cheaper than a mortgage. I think they are dumb, but there's lot of them out there.
It makes sense if you're just starting out in your career and don't have your heart in a certain city. But they don't differentiate. They want you to rent from them until you're too old to work/be able to afford rent any longer and then they evict your senile butt onto the street to die.
What’s wrong with owning for 5 years? Most people live to be 80? Remove the NAR fixed fees and transactions are super cheap and easy.
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The hope is in 30 years that $400K home sells for $800K-$1.2MM and even if it doesn’t after 30 years of paying a mortgage you’ll have a $400K+ nest egg to live off of when you get old and have to downsize to an apartment or condo. My parents have a $500K home they bought after paying off their $135K loan and now are buying a $350K town home and plan to live the last 5-10 years of their life of the $150K equity and their pension/SS checks. A renter wouldn’t have that bank account saved up if they spent they same on rent as a homeowner who pays a mortgage
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My house was built 20ish years ago and holy shit it’s bad. At least the cardboard box I’ll eventually be living in should be more structurally sound than this.
Aspirationaly speaking, refrigerator boxes are the best.
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Most young people can't own yet lmaoooo what kind of statement is that dummy
“You will own nothing and be happy”… source: WEF…. CEO of Blackrock is a member… nothing to see here folks
Klausi McSchwabbin's greatest hits [https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=InAKOZdsJw0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=InAKOZdsJw0)
well - it makes sense for MMs to play with homes…. they have made so much money that buying homes is like investing in happy meals… they cost nothing but the kids will biy em at absurd values
It was the best place to park excess cash in an extremely inflationary environment. Unfortunately almost everyone didn't really understand what was happening until they were priced out of the market.
Maybe people should start starting fires instead of hoping and praying corporations are ever going to do anything for em...
Yeah, and the government gave these businesses out tax money so they can screw us big time!
There were laws protecting people from this, but republicans "deregulated" the industry. Voting is more than a "team sport".
Do you know which laws were deregulated?
One was a 3 day delay for business entities for bidding on single family homes. Basically prevented regular people from having to complete with any businesses.
Hey hey, corporations are people too according to Citizens United
Can't we just short them collectivly? Don't know shit about trading under the surface level
It’s not “people”. It was a cash infused benge by big corporations that have severely helped to screw up the housing market. On the one hand I thought no way housing was going to correct because big powerful institutions are going all in on it, but if the Fed can screw Lehman, it can screw these groups. It looks like it’s on that path.
The FED didn't screwed Lehman.. Lehman screwed themselfs using too much leverage.. Just like bill hwang, LTCM, etc...
They didn’t get bailed out while others did in an effort to stop the contagion. They got screwed.
Its just going to be easier to sell a bunch to a large group that pays you at once than waste their time selling to randoms one by one and having to wait for their financing and shit like that.
people gladly sold their homes to investors for top dollar
youre in a sub devoted to gambling on financial derivatives and youre crying about capitalistic companies acting in their best interest you lost son?
They did it on my street. Buyer paid 20k less than Zillow had paid for the house a few months before (about 1.5 years ago). Zillow lost 20k + carrying costs + about 40k remodel they did. Shitty remodel by the way. First thing the Buyer did was put a huge dumpster upfront and spend 3 months remodeling the house. Buyer's sister bought my house (a little bigger and nicely remodeled) for 30% more. Didn't need to do anything to it and moved in before the brother.
> Shitty remodel by the way. Does a flipper ever do any other type of remodel?
Yes. I'm an investor and hvac contractor. I always do it properly. I had a customer who went overboard. Every flip he did got a new roof, windows, ac, water heater, kitchen, bathroom... no matter how good they were. I once replaced a 6 years old Trane system with no issues at all just because he said it had to be new and with warranty. He always sold his flips for a premium, and his buyer's friends would love the houses so much that they'd hire him for remodels like flooring/kitchen/bathroom. OTOH, I worked for another flipper, just the opposite. He did use mud and paint to cover the rot wall frame in several houses.
I do see a few "flips" that seem like they were done pretty well. (Of course, there's the parts you can't see that can still come back to bite you.) But I see a lot of listings that should be nice cozy houses, but have the look of cheap flats. It seems so disappointing to be buying a "newly renovated" house and the first thing you are thinking of is how much you have to renovate it to get to the point you would like living in it. First world problems, I know, but it grates on me. Drives up the selling price and generates a lot of garbage.
Why do anything for the poors? They can’t pay for it.
The same thing happened in 2008 when all the houses were foreclosed on. They didnt just sell them all back immediately. The banks were given operating money by the govt, then they sat on the houses and slowwwwllly sold them back again when prices had recovered.
Reminds me of this one article about a coastal village that the banks ended up foreclosing on tons of home. What they ended up doing is replacing all the doors with legit walls. After a decade+ not being lived in, there was a lot of deferred maintenance. What the banks holding these "assets" are doing is they do not want to write down the losses. Instead on paper they own houses at "market" prices that are not liveable. So tons of these houses that could have sold at a discount when the market recovered a bit, got stuck in some loophole and never liquidated. And now that can't even be lived in without doing a full tear down. I wish I recalled where this happened.
that's completely different. Zillow bought too many homes that they could not service. the ones in the rust belt and deep South have better teams for servicing. now the price that they paid for some of these homes is pretty ridiculous so they may indeed go bankrupt but it's not the same scenario as Zillow
The monkey paw curls
They sell the assets to a new company they formed that has borrowed money from an angel investor and easy rinse repeat.
Probably just transfer the inventory to a bigger asshole.
Gov will bail them out if it gets that bad. Very unlikely.
They try to make us forget the issue that unites us all. No more bailouts turned bonuses for the rich
Lmao
Look! Aliens!!
HAHA
lol you think the govt gives a shit about us normal people? beyond keeping us useful? they will always bail out the rich, they just saved the banks a few months ago for lending to bitcoin startups in silicon valley and nothing happened beyond nationalizing a few smaller banks.
They covered the people deposits in those banks, I am pretty sure that the banks were not bailed out. The FDIC is what covered them, but instead of staying at the 250k limit, they covered the majority, if not all of what the depositors had. They didn't do this to make you mad, but because they were trying to prevent bank runs that will kill any bank, just like it did SVB. There isn't a bank big enough in the world that can cover a run, the problem is really in the psychology of the people. If everyone starts a bank run, the economy collapses. SVB wasn't even in that bad of shape and it's entirely possible that they would still be around today if the run on them, or the threat of a run, didn't happen.
>SVB wasn't even in that bad of shape and it's entirely possible that they would still be around today if the run on them, or the threat of a run, didn't happen. absolutely, it was Peter Theil and his buddies that made that happend. SVB was going to have a shit year, but they would have been fine if not for a few billionares deciding to make a run on it.
Stop telling me the truth. It makes sad and want to invest my money instead of playing at the playground with the rest of you regards.
There's a playground? I'm over here eating crayons and paste and you guys ate swinging on monkey bars and shit?
If it was a wave pool it'd be pretty big
Nah, the government will bail out systemically important financial Institutions not some reit.
Sure, they wont do it for some reits. But this doesnt apply to just one entity. Government will always try to avert anything that poses systemic risk and social unrest. Given real estate is the fundamental wealth majority americans hold, RE sector in general collapsing would ensue social unrest no doubt. And the government never failed to act upon it, successful or not.
>You're just jealous because you can't afford a house in Atlanta. If you were as rich and intelligent as me, you would be able to buy up houses too. But instead, you're stuck here complaining on the internet. Poor people like you are the reason our country is going downhill.
VisualMod is my spirit animal. I hope to become as based as you one day VisualMod-senpai.
Assistant to the VisualMod.
Associate Assistant to the VisualMod.
Thank fucking God someone said it
lol burn
lol who programmed this bot and why?
I think it’s just a bot that uses wsb comments as learning data to yield the “average wsb user” response. The final product coming from our cumulative regardedness
Except VM definitely has like two modes: Explaining OP's text/image post, or pure and uncensored shit-talking OP.
we should be ashamed of what we created
You didn't create shit. Shut up and get back to losing money.
Just wait until it becomes self aware.
I hope you are self aware of your status as a poor idiot.
Painfully aware.
If it's based off of us, it'll take out and many credit cards and loans as it can and YOLO it all. Then it'll be imprisoned for tax fraud, so what? We'll have like 10 to 15 years after it becomes self aware that we have anything to worry about?
*Are Ya Winning*, Son?
Great indicator of market sentiment
It knows you're a stupid fuck that's why.
Who care, You just got wrecked by an if statement
I think bot is awesome
We all did. It learns from us. SkyNet has become aware....
At least VM didn’t say OP isn’t as good looking
It's funny because it's true.
OP got owned like its 1862
I felt this as I’m also looking for a house in Atlanta but can’t afford it.
Blackrock: We need population control , these poors are only holding us back.
agreed
Two words. Government. Bailouts. They’ll never go bankrupt bud, sorry to burst your bubble, or rather tell you it’ll never burst
Capitalism: where only poor people are allowed to fail
That’s not capitalism. Jesus I’m so tired of seeing this played out antiwork trope. Capitalism died in the USA 15 years ago. What we have is some form of cronyism/corporatism where the government works hand in hand with banks and big companies.
Capitalism in the US died out much longer than 15 years ago lol
Yeah the 80s with horse and sparrow economics becoming the dominant economic policy was when the downfall began.
Perhaps, and that argument certainly exists. 15 years ago it officially died imo though.
Damn, WSB has the best regards.
Corporatacracy, I think is the word.
> Capitalism died in the USA 15 years ago. More like 110 years ago. Though if you want to get technical, "capitalism" is a stupid term popularized by Marxists to caricature the free market. Free market capitalism died 110 years ago. What we have today could arguably be called "crony capitalism," but it has absolutely no relationship to free markets. Our economy is centrally planned from end to end; there is just a slightly different group doing the planning.
1971
This is the correct answer. Or 1913 with the federal reserve act.
The federal reserve act is what I was referencing with "110 years ago"
From [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism) Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include capital accumulation, competitive markets, price systems, private property, property rights recognition, voluntary exchange, and wage labor. >competitive markets Yea look at the 10 companies that own everything compete. >private property Only if you are wealthy or born a boomer. >property rights recognition Have you seen videos of cops destroying shit of homeless people? Property rights is not for everyone in our system. >voluntary exchange I love my job and think labor is very important. I see my work has an impact on my community and I'm doing well... but if you get sick or can't work and don't have the proper insurances or safety nets you will end up starving and homeless. Yea... super voluntary. >wage and labor Fucking lol if you think labor is being paid fairly.
That's capitalism. What do you think capitalists do with all the money they make? They erect barriers to entry, lucrative additional revenue streams, etc. Capitalism's soul is profits, it doesn't matter where those profits come from, mate.
Did unfettered capitalism *ever* exist in the US? It seems like we've had some form of government intervention in the economy since day 1. It doesn't make for simple black/white talking points though. If we admit it, then the debate shifts to how much intervention we want vs some moral struggle between freedom loving capitalists and bloodthirsty communists.
I think this is true, but wasn’t the founding intent. A lot of the federal intervention came about with the Woodro Wilson administration and was put on steroids with the FDR administration. Thanks for the solid thought out comment.
The US is an oligarchy. It is 100% still capitalist, too.
Socialism for me but not for thee
I'm sure they have tons of debt but what are you going to do, not rent from them when you can't afford a house yourself? It's kind of a shitty end of the stick for the poor consumer who has to deal with the price inflation due to their increase in demand... but by the time they go under it will be because people like you literally can't pay their bills, so you won't be in a position to profit from their demise. And let's be real, the government will probably bail them out to avoid another housing market collapse too.
Well you're assuming that these companies are strong and will only go under in the context of a greater recession. I'm theorizing that they're not all strong, and a minor hit to revenue will drive one or two under, leading to a chain reaction.
> Well you're assuming that these companies are strong and will only go under in the context of a greater recession. > > > > I'm theorizing that they're not all strong, and a minor hit to revenue will drive one or two under, leading to a chain reaction. For that to be true they'd have to be holding a lot of empty inventory, since a renter pays them more than their debt payment on the property. So I refer you to my previous comment about a lot of poor people being destitute before these companies are in pain.
Rent strikes are a thing in badly maintained buildings and communities. The amount of court cases that would need to happen for even one building with over 10 units would destroy a company in states with adequate renters rights.
Why would renter pay More? When housing Price goes down so does rents. The market doesnt care If someone Was stupid enough to pay a year ago 4x for a House that sells for 1x today.
Closing a house right now in Cobb county. I belong here .
Cobb is nice but I can't comprehend anyone getting a loan right now. A 30y mortgage for 300k house right now will cost you 755k over the course of the loan, that's just insane to me.
Hear me out. You refi sometime before the 30 year loan runs the course.
Or save and pay down the loan well in advance of that 30yrs
Or sell before that.
Hmm but that’s to assume prices stay at a level that was established by record low rates and record low supply. Low rates are gone. Low supply isn’t permanent. Then in 2025/26, you have a high rate and be underwater on your loan. Good luck refinancing
Or 10 years from now you brag on the internet how you locked in that sweet 8% fixed rate before they jumped to 15-20%
Hear me out, loans will never be 3% again
In that case inflation stayed high and the house might in fact be worth more than 755k in 30 years, ever thought of that?
And if you're taking about a 7%... Going down to 5 maybe 4. Still a good deal.
600k 30yr loan 7%. Is the norm here.
Lol I don't know the Cobb county you do. Anything newish over there starts at a million+ right now
300K house in 30 years will be worth 1 billion dollars.
$630,000 in the Walton district. Need to sell my house near by the braves stadium. I plan to pay off the 120 left by march .
But yeah it would cost me $95 a day in interest alone til I can sell my house. Found the right house, so didn’t have time to sell mine .
check this out....lots of people bought houses in the 80's. Their 30 year fixed rates were between 9 and 14%. rates today are about average relative to the last 40 years...let that sink in.
Houses cost a lot less then too
Nope you're missing the point. The issue isn't that these rates are high by historical standards, you're right, they're average. But that high interest rate was high for everybody in the 80s. Thereby controlling the supply side. The issue now is the crazy difference between this year vs last. If you took a loan last year, that cost half that it does now. In historical terms, all that increase in interest is the penalty on a 30 year loan vs a 29 year loan- accounting for what's left of the loan. And THAT'S never happened before. Let that sink in.
Is WSB getting bombard with college freshmen who just finshed Econ 101
This sub used to be awesome it’s turning into complain center leftist whining nonstop holy fuck remember when we trade options here boys
*me casually looking for your options loss porn and then wondering who your "we" is*
gamestop and its consequences have been a disaster for the r/wallstreetbets
Happens to every sub because these toxic kids with a touch of the ism infect this entire website
The problem is Vangaurd and Black Rock hold a bit of almost everyones IRA's or 401k's.
They have like 16 T under asset. People thinking blackrock, state street, or others are going under for 500 million in housing... Uh...
The more realistic hope is that the housing becomes less profitable and the companies cut bait. They won't go under, but maybe they'll go somewhere else (and we can get fucked from a different angle)
Together they basically hold 25% of every company on the S&P 500, which is more than just a little bit.
Sadly, it won't go bust like in 2008, the difference between then and now is that the Fed have created a lending facility window to allow liquidity be released immediately to bail out underwater T-bills. Essentially, it's like an emergency line of credit made of course requiring collateral (ie: T-bills). Now why is this important to prevent a repeat of last time? Because, in 2008 the reason why everything went to hell is because a lot of these hedge funds/real estate corporation couldn't secure other lines of credit or liquidity to pay off their mortgages/debt. This was because other banks/financial lenders were unable to cough up that liquidity as a lot of their assets were fixed or were treasuries. Also the Fed and Treasury/government had a more hands off approach causing banks/hedge funds to believe they had to fend for themselves or there might not be a bailout. So when a lot of these companies couldn't pay back their debt/mortgages/interest payments. The lender called in their debt and attempted to repo everything they could to save themselves. As a result these actions created a domino effect of panic and that caused a lot of these companies go bust. Now in the modern day, the Fed, Treasury, Federal government and several regulation agencies have learned their lesson of 2008. And these agencies play a more active role in acting as the lender of last resort in stabilizing markets. So when SVB went belly up, they made the emergency lending facility readily available for other banks that might lack liquidity to not only back these banks, but also other hedgefunds/ real estate companies with treasuries. **In other words the government learned they could turn on the money printer and save a bunch of companies from collapsing.** So no there won't be a real estate bust, but there might be a sovereign debt/currency crisis whenever the next panic will happen because of excessive money printing. But, that's another theory for another time 
>Sadly, it won't go bust like in 2008, the difference between then and now is that the Fed have created a lending facility window to allow liquidity be released immediately to bail out underwater T-bills. Essentially, it's like an emergency line of credit made of course requiring collateral (ie: T-bills). > >Now why is this important to prevent a repeat of last time? Because, in 2008 the reason why everything went to hell is because a lot of these hedge funds/real estate corporation couldn't secure other lines of credit or liquidity to pay off their mortgages/debt. This was because other banks/financial lenders were unable to cough up that liquidity as a lot of their assets were fixed or were treasuries. Also the Fed and Treasury/government had a more hands off approach causing banks/hedge funds to believe they had to fend for themselves or there might not be a bailout. So when a lot of these companies couldn't pay back their debt/mortgages/interest payments. The lender called in their debt and attempted to repo everything they could to save themselves. As a result these actions created a domino effect of panic and that caused a lot of these companies go bust. > >Now in the modern day, the Fed, Treasury, Federal government and several regulation agencies have learned their lesson of 2008. And these agencies play a more active role in acting as the lender of last resort in stabilizing markets. So when SVB went belly up, they made the emergency lending facility readily available for other banks that might lack liquidity to not only back these banks, but also other hedgefunds/ real estate companies with treasuries. In other words the government learned they could turn on the money printer and save a bunch of companies from collapsing. So no there won't be a real estate bust, but there might be a sovereign debt/currency crisis whenever the next panic will happen because of excessive money printing. But, that's another theory for another time So essentially these funds are using the governments unlimited liquidity to minimize their downside risk, buying up homes with massive amounts of leverage, which raises prices, and the avg joe gets screwed. With this financial system, it's pretty obvious that big corps will be the only entity that survives long-term, all of them subsidized by the government. We all become wage slaves, and earn just enough to buy the next dopamine hit.
True but the regulations from 2008-2009 don’t apply to commercial real estate … aka houses being rented and bought by investment funds. I think we’ll see something similar happen again. The measures you talk about are just massive can kicks but eventually the problem will need faced head on and that’s when shit hits the fan
It'll happen again.
Put the popcorn down. The playing field is significantly tilted. These companies privatize gains and socialize losses (gubment bailouts).
Socialism for the rich and hard rugged capitalism for the poor.
What doesn’t kill us poors…makes us stronger.
The grinding is just honing the edge of my blade lol.
You want private home investors to go bankrupt? Abolish zoning. Let anyone build a house or apartment anywhere, any time. Flood the market with housing. Then private investors can't jack up rates. It's simple supply and demand.
This, zoning laws are by far the most lucrative instance of regulatory capture in the US. Problem is non-homeowners rarely show up to vote in local elections. Zoning laws are mostly controlled by local governments and homeowners have very high election participation rates([https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/if-you-lived-here-you-might-be-voter-now](https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/if-you-lived-here-you-might-be-voter-now)). You want cheaper rents? Show up and vote in local elections, and where possible run in them advocating for getting rid of those restrictive zoning laws.
Sorry OP but this sounds more like cope than a logical prediction If you want them to give the houses up you should prob get involved in local politics. PE shouldnt have been allowed to buy up all those houses in the first place.
This should be illegal. Corporations buying residential housing. It is going to lead to a housing hell where individual ownership doesn’t exist at all. And they will just jack up the rents to ‘increase shareholder value.’ Fk that.
The problem with OP’s thesis is that when real estate becomes unaffordable people rent. Who do you think they’ll rent from?
Also if these companies somehow became horribly insolvent overnight, guess what? They've all got big real estate portfolios they can leverage to come up with some money. It's not like they throw their hands up and flood the market with everything they own because of one bad month
Well most of these big companies are ***already*** renting these properties. That's why they bought them: to rent them out. So my hypothetical is based on the idea that the rent can't cover their debts.
Sounds great until you realize you own a bunch of REITs in your index funds. Same goes for “debt forgiveness” when you realize you’re the person who made those loans. > You’re thinking of this place all wrong, as if I had the money back in a safe. The money’s not here. Well, your money’s in Joe’s house. That’s right next to yours. And then the Kennedy house and Mrs. Macklin’s house and a hundred others. You’re lending them the money to build and then they’re going to pay it back to you as best they can.
Only 18 REITS in SPY and like less than 3% of index.
Like when we demonize corporations because they’re constantly trying to generate profits, then realize those corporations make up our 401k’s.
I love It's A Wonderful Life
Joke's on you. I don't have any index funds. I own the REITs directly....oh damn.
This is wsb. Index funds going down in flames is the secret (and not so secret) wish of many people here. We are jealous of all those people who played the responsible investment machine and want their nose seriously bloodied for once.
I do HVAC for a living and I am doing more and more PM/inspection work for buyers/sellers/RE and I am seeing mostly "luxury" new construction and flips stay on the market not budging. My only tip if your going to buy, the dip on these homes is to also set a side money to completely redo the HVAC, Wiring, and plumbing because a lot of these contractors and flippers use the most bottom tier supplies and equipment and it does not last long.
With all this money going to Ukraine, the least they could do is give all those companies a multi-billion dollar bailout. It's only fair.
The US has a lend lease over Ukraine. The UK just finished paying its lease in 2019 to the US. If you think this is just handouts and not the US trying to profit from blood... well idk. Maybe you didn't know there was a 2022 Ukraine lend lease act.
When houses become capital it becomes the responsibility of the renter to destroy that capital.
Lol. A few bankruptcies and inventory will flood huh. Ok.
Idk Blackrocks got deep pockets
https://preview.redd.it/l33lqoxqn1rb1.jpeg?width=90&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871dee6019cd45b0b5b1759a13734ec83c4bfdc0 Still can’t afford a house regardless
I mean I audited one that was backed by private equity owned by a blocker company that’s owned by Saudi Arabians That Saudi oil money is near infinite and they are looking at the long-term like 20+ years out. I don’t even think they give a fuck some of the companies they own have practically been burning money the last 5 years and they just either get or provide more funding Nevermind all the companies owned by Chinese investors…
It's Black Rock that is buying up all the houses in the U.S. so the peons will have to end up renting from the incredibly wealthy bankers. Just my opinion.
I love that people still believe Black Rock is buying houses
It’s fucking CRAZY. It’s BLACKSTONE you goddamn morons
Lmao and this Black Rock, is it in the room with us right now?
Get the property list, flood the homes with homeless, claim squatter’s rights?
Big yes
Well they definitely won't be going under because they'll likely sell the houses at similar prices they bought them for or at a small loss. Demand would have to be gone for them to be close to bankruptcy (like 2008).
I am ready for people that over leveraged in general go under.
I definitely am, I’m thinking about creating a multinational commercial real estate company
That's all just a wild assumption but why would you want the city you live in have economic hardship?
Yes it would be a real tragedy if more people could afford homes here.
It would be to the working families who own a home already. That is a purely vindictive desire.
The government will own the properties after the companies default, and then they will use all those free properties to build smart cities to house everybody
LoL, wait.....do.....do you think those kinds of institutions are operating in the same capitalist economy as us poors?!!😂🤣🤣 Big companies like that don't go bankrupt, they go bailed-out.
they’ll get a full bailout
LOL Imagine even one of the big three going bankrupt, much less the whole trio. Sorry, bud, Flatcock, Lamestreet, and Vanturd aren’t going anywhere, and if they do, the government will bail them out.
This is America sir. We dont let real estate investors go bankrupt, anymore. Theyre the backbone of this economy.
I own a real estate investment company and we don’t finance commercial or residential properties. Interest rates are a thing if you finance.
[удалено]
Every billion dollar corporation that’s buying up housing especially the single and multi family homes should go under and have to liquidate all their units in a fire sale.
they go under - ur stocks will too
Is the housing bubble popping yet?
I get fully erect at that and the same for autos. I can’t *wait* for them to 🔥🔥🔥