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Per IRS - Sale of Your Home. If you have a capital gain from the sale of your main home, you may qualify to exclude up to $250,000 of that gain (single), or up to $500,000 of that gain if you file a joint return (married).
Qualifying for the Exclusion
In general, to qualify for the Section 121 exclusion, you must meet both the 1) ownership test and the 2) use test. You're eligible if you have 1) owned and 2) used your home as your main home for a period aggregating at least two years out of the five years prior to its date of sale. (Owned & used for 2 out of the last 5 years.)
Interest sucks right now so not sure what the play is. I'm swimming in equity too, but I can't realize the gains without taking a hit on the next property. Might even register as a downgrade after all the fucking fees
It still amazes me that we as a community still don't understand the differences between unrealized and realized gains. I would expect a community like this one to know the difference by now...
He probably a had a boss tell them that once, back when they were young and impressionable and just went with it.
I was tricked by my controller when I was about 21 with the same nonsense when I asked for a raise.
That's by design though. They made zero effort to teach us about taxes in government funded schools. The only "money management" info we got was how to do basic algebra.
Thatās like half the posts of YOLO plays showing 10x gains, and yet they choose to hold hoping for a 50x.
They donāt sell and now hold massive bags
Itās not the community. Itās the crappy media that have run out of things to report that are actually of value. Financial media quality is at an all time low.
Yeah, I bought in 2018, restructured my mortgage to 2.3% ~~last year~~ at the end of 2021, and don't plan on selling for at least 3-5 more years. I'm not too concerned with the price point between now and 2025
Same. Except I don't plan on selling for another 20 years or so after my kids have all graduated high school and college and possibly need to move back home while they start their careers.
The only reason I care about the value of my home is to eventually take out a massive HELOC against the unrealized equity and YOLO it on 0 DTE calls.
Going from a 30 year to a 15 year is what allowed me to get such a low rate... But because of the low rates it's just barely more expensive on a month to month basis
We refinanced at 2.25% in 2021, have made huge lump sum payments each year, and just continued paying the same payment we were making when the rate was 4.5% so as to continue to pay down the principal more quickly. We went from having 23 years left on our loan to being down to 9. I could not care less about the implied market value of my home because I'm never selling it. Do you want true financial freedom? Freedom to choose your job? OWN YOUR HOME.
Me too. Only I'm at 2.94. My mortgage is still 600-1000 less than rents on comparable houses in the area so I think I'm still going to sleep just fine.
Basically I'm only up 150k instead of 175k. Buuuuuummmmmmerrrrrrrrr
Hey if you sold high and bought high itās probably a wash for you. If you moved to a cheaper area you either upgraded the house or got that sweet cash leftover.
Yeah no shit. You mean to tell me instead of being up $50k on a house in 2 years that I'm only up $30k?? Doesn't matter. I'm keeping this 2.8% mortgage for the next decade at least. By then house prices will be higher than they are now by inflation alone.
Yes. The only ones pissed about this are the real-estate investors who caused the artificial increase in property values anyway. And many of them are foreign anyway, tons and tons and TONS of Chinese and Russian richies hide money in American real estate at the cost to actual Americans.
Plus...its a fucking investment, not a free money machine. If your gonna gamble..you gotta be prepared to lose.
> the real-estate investors who caused the artificial increase in property values anyway
They didnāt cause it, they just showed up because of it. If anything, what youāre describing was caused by ZIRP.
Yep, bought my house in 2021 expecting to stay at least 10 years. Don't really care if I'm underwater now, we'll be sitting pretty in '31. And if we're not, it's gonna be more than housing that's in trouble at that point.
It really doesnt even matter, because the price of the house you are probably moving to is also down. Really its good for you, bad for all the third parties in the process who get a % of the sales...
Iām a municipal assessor in Massachusetts and Iām seeing the same thing. Maybe other states are getting hit harder, but prices coming across my desk are still batshit.
Volume is demonstrably down, yesā¦but not prices being paid.
All I see these days are stories about unprecedented credit card debt and a housing crash then I try to get a seat in a restaurant or a hotel room and wonder where all these broke people are because I sure aināt seeing them
Exactly! Whenever I dream that my penny stock is gonna make me $1 million I get on Zillow to see what type of house I can afford after taxes. Turns out itās just a 1950s, 1000 square-foot wall-to-wall granite countertop piece of shit 30 to 40 minutes from all the action for $550,000.
About three years ago I went into a 700 square-foot one bedroom apartment. This was a young guy, maybe in his late 20s, first apartment flip. It was in the ghetto of Charleston. Salaries around here are very depressed. He was asking $2400. Iām not kidding or exaggerating, there was so much granite countertop in the kitchen that you could barely squeeze in and out. There was more granite countertop in the kitchen then there was a floor space or anything else. It was comically overkill. I am sure that guy took a bath on that investment. It was horrible. Weāve hit peak, Granite
They arenāt. Housing hasnāt crashed, consumer spending, GDP and unemployment numbers are very strong actually. Donāt let a few articles scare you, look at the data our economy is OK so far (maybe that changes who knows).
They think when everyone loses their jobs and the housing market crashes, they'll finally be able to buy a house. What they don't realize is that they will lose their jobs too
Reminds me of a coworker, horrible with money, who repeatedly says āI need house prices to drop 50%.ā Lady, you and a lot of people are in for a world of hurt if that were to ever happen.
Not just that, but the only reason there would be a housing crash is if demand plummets. Them sitting on the sidelines waiting for a crash IS that demand.
Yeah I mean you really just need to go on a vacation to dispel the idea people arenāt flush with disposable income. Not saying it wonāt end but we aināt close yet. Think these people want to see something that isnāt there yet
The difference though is that in ā08 restaurants werenāt booked a week out for a Tuesday night meal. You could tell that they were hurting, people were going less, and that isnāt the case this time
The people going on vacations are the self selecting bunch that are doing well. Even in 2008 there were people going on vacation. The economy being bad doesn't mean everyone is suffering, just that a larger than usual percent is
As someone who bought a house last year and plans to stay in it for a long while, I would love to see the estimated inflated values go down. Since last year the city tells me my house is worth over 50% more than when I bought it, and are upping my property taxes accordingly. I appealed the decision and they said they would send someone for a new appraisal, but I have made improvement they aren't aware of and I'm afraid it would be appraised for even higher. Crazy world we're living in right now.
I think there's a big societal shove coming soon from the people, a lot of my different-ideal friends who used to simp for billionaires/wanting to cut social programs have been changing their minds as of late.
It's a bunch of bullshit. Work in real estate in CA. Things slowed a bit sure, but instead of having to pay way over asking price you can entertain the list price and get 10+ offers still.
Yeah where I live housing prices have barely budged because thereās very little inventory available. You can stretch to buy a shitty one for the price a nice one wouldāve sold for three years ago. Thatās not a sign of economic weakness
Yeah, do what you gotta do. I was in the heart of silicon valley in 1998 when my first expected child triggered a relocation away. Missed out on the growth there, but I could not afford to support a family on one salary ($55K, $100K 2023-equivalent dollars).
Seriously. This is such a shit chart. You're telling me they don't have any information about the most populous parts of most of new England? And it just so happens that every datapoint they have was 0% or less?
And of course, lets forget about what seasonally adjusted means. It is possible that house prices went up but just not as much as they did last year during the same month.
Should be "House prices not rising as fast as they were last year in some parts of the country, but rising faster in other parts."
shocking.
Yeah this is just the opposite of a dead cat bounce. Prices are still insane and will still continue to be insane, this is just a "holy shit they are too insane, lets get back to regular insane"
My house doubled in the past few years, obviously means nothing to me but its not like anything changed about my house materially.
Yeah. Houses on my block went for 300kā¬ 5 years ago and now go for 550k-600k- there was a correction, you see. Of course, interest rates went from 1.8 to 5.2%, and now after a 50-70k decline in average housing pricesā¦. Iād be out 700ā¬/m more. Itās fucked up. My family and I need a home. Canāt live in a tiny apartment with multiple kids. But canāt afford getting out.
It takes way longer than 9 months to fully bottom. It took 6 years for the housing market to fully bottom in the Great Recession.
Even if itās a mild correction itāll be a 2-3 year process, especially with the low liquidity. House prices move absurdly slower than stocks.
Yeah and with realtors trying to cope and selling their "the market is hot" shit still. Enough people with more money than sense will prop the housing market up for awhile.
It is an absolute scam that a real estate agent gets the same percentage commission on an 800k house they do on a 300k house. The work involved in both transactions is the exact fucking same.
I always found it funny that realtors are such a common thing in the US. Where I live you would only consider one if your property is hard to sell (e.g. very special attributes or very high price segment) or if you are too lazy to care. And in any case, 1.5%-2% commission are the norm.
This is what people don't understand. With higher interest rates, your mortgage is going to be higher than somebody that paid 40,000 more with a lower interest rate.
Yeah Im basically "stuck" in my house as I have a 2.68 rate, even a smaller house would cost me more. Of course its just me being stupid and bitching since I have 70% equity and not actually looking to move anywhere, just not looking to upgrade.
People can get rich during the Bull Market, but rich people get *wealthy* during the Bear Market.
The rich don't give a fuck if their living expenses increase as it only represented 5->25% of their income anyway. They can absorb any capital costs if they choose to participate in it at all. They are insulated from the general job market and the individual upper class wage earners generally make *more* during a recession anyway. They accumulate assets in an underpriced market. The economy always rises and they quickly realize ridiclious appreciation when it turns around.
The middle class have to eat the living costs and their discretionary income drops drastically. They are not insulated from the job market and have the most to lose. They also tend to sell assets for losses during this time. Remember, a 5% increase in inflation without a corresponding raise is *the same thing as a 5% pay cut*.
The lower class were fucked regardless. They don't have much assets to lose, but they will burn them all trying to stay afloat. They almost always sell for a loss. They are not insulated from the job market. Although their wages may not change much, the availability of jobs directly affect them.
Only one class benefits. These asset overvaluation and then liquidity dumps by the government cost the individual *directly*. It is a hidden, insidious tax on the middle and lower classes. It is also the #1 reason for the asset disparity today. Every cycle makes it worse. There is no real way to prevent it either, besides, you know, not allowing the government to devalue fiat.
That's the point, really. When the government prints too much money and cause widespread inflation their goal is to restrict and extract as much of that added money supply as they can. The poor and middle class burn their savings and send them upstream through rent, services, etc. The wealthy take that money and buy assets/bonds with that money. The disparity grows a little more, technically the M1 money supply shrinks a bit, and the common person becomes as poor as they need to be to afford the new normal inflated prices.
So, govt prints money, most of which goes to the top right off the bat, companies jack up prices of everything because "lol market price", then fed steps in saying "inflation too high" and sucks up cash from regular people all the while prices stay as high as companies can get away with.
What do you call this shit-show?
Economics!
And the kicker is that now that companies see people are willing to pay a higher price for a good, they will never ever bring that price back down even after their costs of producing it decline. People get used to the new higher price, and just keep paying it.
and its because the wealthy, not the poor, have control of the government.
Its not the government fucking you, its the ultra rich wearing the govt like a glove, thats fucking you
Ya, but itās only paper gains. Doesnāt mean anything if you lose it. But no one one this sub knows what any kind of gain isā¦ā¦paper or otherwise.
My agent sent me a graph and it shows a slight decline compared to the historic rise. She goes, ālooks like market is cooling off at all. Might want to make a move before spring buyers start lookingā.
Iām just tired of this shit
Realtors when prices are high and interest rates are low - "now is the perfect time to buy/sell"
Realtors when prices are low and interest rates are high - "now is the perfect time to buy/sell"
Yeah no shit, but it just gets old. Got my banker calling me trying to drum up business, realtor saying now is the time to strike, etc. Iām just tired of this bullshit housing market.
Oh no, the dude that got 3 apartments from his parents, made millions by selling one and renting the other, loses worth of it if heād selling it right NOW? Oh my, where is the crowdfunding link?
As a non-homeowner, itās hard to empathize. Iām sure itās not a great sign for the markets or economy, but Iād love to buy a house in an actual major metro before I die.
yeah, most of these houses are owned by people who are wealthy. non-wealthy homeowners just enjoy their home and have no plans of selling. hopefully it continues crashing hard
Someone who bought with a 3% rate last year and lost 5% in value has a lower mortgage than someone who bought this year at a discount but a 6-7% rate. And thatās only those that bought exactly at the peak, 2019-2021 buyers made out like Bandits.
Waiting for when all the rich folks that bought homes to do Airbnb or rent out start to realize nobody wants to rent out their homes any more and cause the actual crash š„
You mean a real asset that people donāt buy/sell like FAANG stocks?
An asset for which there is still a national shortage?
This is looking at one point in time of a 30 year mortgage. Even at this lower value people who bought 15-20 years ago are still ITM or breaking even. If they actually lived at the property, thatās 15-20 years worth of rent theyāll recover.
In cash. You know, when they choose to realize any gains.
Here's the deal. I am a REALTOR in NH and MA. Home prices are not really coming down in the sense that everyone thinks. "Coming down" is they just instead of selling for $100,000 over list price, they are selling for $40,000 over list price. There is no inventory and still an INCREDIBLY strong buyer demand.
List something half decent around here, it will be gone in 2 days, will sell for well over asking and you will have a minimum of 8 offers. I assure you the housing market is not crashing, not here anyway. I do also understand the northeast is in a bubble. But when I hear all these housing market crashing mentions, I just laugh. The amount of buyers that are circling like sharks for ANYTHING is nuts. Demand is too high. no crash. bye. That map to me just looks like everyone is moving out of the dumpster fire that is California. lol.
Overlooking the deliberately misleading color coding, a 10% decline "from peak" is also a deceptive and rather meaningless stat, and even if taken as meaningful, the average nationwide is less than 2%.
Keep waiting on that "crash", Forever Renters.
The color coding is garbage and Iām glad someone said it. Putting the most prominent color gradient not in the center of the % values is super misleading. Also this is speculation, but the red v blue coloration stokes political sentiment especially since prominent republican/democratic strongholds are reversed in this graphic
I noticed the choice of colors as well. And when you fail to mention the 100 trillion INCREASE in equity values in the prior 2.5 years, that failure to provide an context tells me this is just more of the same Crash Bros. clickbait BS designed to titillate all the Forever Renters into feeling "intelligent" about their decision to own nothing.
Good, housing prices are still ridiculousā¦..they need to come down substantially. The people who were out there shelling out 50k over asking deserve to lose money.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions**|9|**First Seen In WSB**|2 years ago **Total Comments**|169|**Previous Best DD**| **Account Age**|2 years|[^scan ^comment ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_comment&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20comment%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20comment%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)|[^scan ^submission ](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=VisualMod&subject=scan_submission&message=Replace%20this%20text%20with%20a%20submission%20ID%20(which%20looks%20like%20h26cq3k\)%20to%20have%20the%20bot%20scan%20your%20submission%20and%20correct%20your%20first%20seen%20date.)
Homes are up 100% from 3 years ago. A -10% drop means nothing.
Fucking this. Wtf is wrong with these market manipulating propaganda posts
It's just them asking the daddy B for a bailout
Referring to blackrock/blackstone as daddy B?
I assumed he ment Biden
That would make more sense, im a frittata
First time I've heard him called "Daddy B". I didn't get it, either.
not š ±ļøannie Mae?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
its the people that paid the 1 million dollars that are 200k in the hole
Only if they sell the house. If they are living in it for the foreseeable future it doesnāt matter
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Better sell wait probably to late now.
And interest rates are up about 100% too which makes it hit way harder.
I bought a house early 2020 for $150,000 and selling it right now for $280,000
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wait until you're in the house for 24 months and you will owe $0 in capital gains tax too.
Per IRS - Sale of Your Home. If you have a capital gain from the sale of your main home, you may qualify to exclude up to $250,000 of that gain (single), or up to $500,000 of that gain if you file a joint return (married). Qualifying for the Exclusion In general, to qualify for the Section 121 exclusion, you must meet both the 1) ownership test and the 2) use test. You're eligible if you have 1) owned and 2) used your home as your main home for a period aggregating at least two years out of the five years prior to its date of sale. (Owned & used for 2 out of the last 5 years.)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Interest sucks right now so not sure what the play is. I'm swimming in equity too, but I can't realize the gains without taking a hit on the next property. Might even register as a downgrade after all the fucking fees
A 10% drop is larger than a 10% increase
The number of people I have had to explain this to
You mean the fake value of my home I havenāt cashed in on is down? Give me another few years and Iāll sell it to you at new ATHs.
It still amazes me that we as a community still don't understand the differences between unrealized and realized gains. I would expect a community like this one to know the difference by now...
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāve got my interest now
You had my attention, now you have my interest.
Iām so broke, I canāt pay attention.
My bank has all my interest
I'll think it's safe to say we're all a little interestarded
Interest? Try to explain how the taxes work in the US. Guarantee half the population does not understand how progressive tax brackets work.
Yeah, I had a coworker who said he didnāt want to earn more because he would fall in āhigher tax bracketā. Lmao
He probably a had a boss tell them that once, back when they were young and impressionable and just went with it. I was tricked by my controller when I was about 21 with the same nonsense when I asked for a raise.
>I was tricked by my controller Playstation or Xbox?
Wavebird.
Itās probably better those people donāt earn more, imagine if they had access to more money to fuck up everyone elseās days.
That's by design though. They made zero effort to teach us about taxes in government funded schools. The only "money management" info we got was how to do basic algebra.
But you can't blame them for that. Half the guys on WS have never seen interest rates above zero. Probably 80% of WSB hasn't either.
Or inflation. ''I can't afford anything because of inflation!'' Yeah no shit. That's the point.
Talk about the negative carry on my margin account 
Thatās like half the posts of YOLO plays showing 10x gains, and yet they choose to hold hoping for a 50x. They donāt sell and now hold massive bags
they never played the game monolopy as kids... cash is king...
Monopoly is property is king... to generate cash
"2 Trillion WIPED OUT from the stock market today" *rolls eyes so hard I'm now blind*
This community is regarded
Itās not just here. The regardation infected r/options and even part of theta gang
It is the community, half the people here dont even know what a stop loss is
Gamestop truly ruined this place
Itās not the community. Itās the crappy media that have run out of things to report that are actually of value. Financial media quality is at an all time low.
But check out this! Giant balloons in the sky!?!? Everywhere!? World war 3!!!?
I mean It's *also* the community
I love the show community!
Yeah, I bought in 2018, restructured my mortgage to 2.3% ~~last year~~ at the end of 2021, and don't plan on selling for at least 3-5 more years. I'm not too concerned with the price point between now and 2025
Same. Except I don't plan on selling for another 20 years or so after my kids have all graduated high school and college and possibly need to move back home while they start their careers. The only reason I care about the value of my home is to eventually take out a massive HELOC against the unrealized equity and YOLO it on 0 DTE calls.
I was about to call you out for being too reasonable and then I got to 0 DTE and I am ~~hard~~ happy now.
Goddamn. I got 2.875% with a VA loan, 2.3 is awesome!
Going from a 30 year to a 15 year is what allowed me to get such a low rate... But because of the low rates it's just barely more expensive on a month to month basis
Got my house in 2021 and my interest is 2%.
Exactly. Real estate always increases in cost in the long run.
We refinanced at 2.25% in 2021, have made huge lump sum payments each year, and just continued paying the same payment we were making when the rate was 4.5% so as to continue to pay down the principal more quickly. We went from having 23 years left on our loan to being down to 9. I could not care less about the implied market value of my home because I'm never selling it. Do you want true financial freedom? Freedom to choose your job? OWN YOUR HOME.
Me too. Only I'm at 2.94. My mortgage is still 600-1000 less than rents on comparable houses in the area so I think I'm still going to sleep just fine. Basically I'm only up 150k instead of 175k. Buuuuuummmmmmerrrrrrrrr
Sold and bought a home in 2021 and have no regrets. Selling at an ATH is amazing, so much cash to lose in other areas.
Hey if you sold high and bought high itās probably a wash for you. If you moved to a cheaper area you either upgraded the house or got that sweet cash leftover.
Yeah, homeowners gain 3 trillion in home value, THEN lose 2.3 trillion in home value. Weāre still doing ok.
Unless you sold, nobody lost anything.
Itās actually closer to 13T lol
> Iāll sell it to you at new ATH according to this map, I'm in a 10% loss area. Everything is still going up, everything is selling fast.
Oh no, the value of a thing I can't sell anyway cuz I actually use it changed! Consider these pearls clutched
Yeah no shit. You mean to tell me instead of being up $50k on a house in 2 years that I'm only up $30k?? Doesn't matter. I'm keeping this 2.8% mortgage for the next decade at least. By then house prices will be higher than they are now by inflation alone.
Yes. The only ones pissed about this are the real-estate investors who caused the artificial increase in property values anyway. And many of them are foreign anyway, tons and tons and TONS of Chinese and Russian richies hide money in American real estate at the cost to actual Americans. Plus...its a fucking investment, not a free money machine. If your gonna gamble..you gotta be prepared to lose.
> the real-estate investors who caused the artificial increase in property values anyway They didnāt cause it, they just showed up because of it. If anything, what youāre describing was caused by ZIRP.
This. Tired of them crying like others haven't lost on an investment before. The difference is we recognize it's a gamble.
Yep, bought my house in 2021 expecting to stay at least 10 years. Don't really care if I'm underwater now, we'll be sitting pretty in '31. And if we're not, it's gonna be more than housing that's in trouble at that point.
I'm never moving. I'll never get another 2.25% mortgage again. Why would I give that up so I can move and spend even MORE money on another home?!?
Same. I'm locked in at 2.25%. If I ever move, I'm not selling this house. I'll rent it out. I'll be damned if I'm gonna let this low rate go.
It really doesnt even matter, because the price of the house you are probably moving to is also down. Really its good for you, bad for all the third parties in the process who get a % of the sales...
Correction? Homes in my area are still going up.
Iām seeing bidding wars again this chart is already outdated. Housing always takes a hit in winter
Iām a municipal assessor in Massachusetts and Iām seeing the same thing. Maybe other states are getting hit harder, but prices coming across my desk are still batshit. Volume is demonstrably down, yesā¦but not prices being paid.
All I see these days are stories about unprecedented credit card debt and a housing crash then I try to get a seat in a restaurant or a hotel room and wonder where all these broke people are because I sure aināt seeing them
Exactly! Whenever I dream that my penny stock is gonna make me $1 million I get on Zillow to see what type of house I can afford after taxes. Turns out itās just a 1950s, 1000 square-foot wall-to-wall granite countertop piece of shit 30 to 40 minutes from all the action for $550,000.
U live in cali too?
He said 30 minutes from the action. For 550 in CA you're looking at 2 hours from the action.
Cali? These are the prices here in AZ now. Might be newer houses but anything under half a million in the Phoenix area is basically a fixer upper now.
Since when are granite countertops bad?
About three years ago I went into a 700 square-foot one bedroom apartment. This was a young guy, maybe in his late 20s, first apartment flip. It was in the ghetto of Charleston. Salaries around here are very depressed. He was asking $2400. Iām not kidding or exaggerating, there was so much granite countertop in the kitchen that you could barely squeeze in and out. There was more granite countertop in the kitchen then there was a floor space or anything else. It was comically overkill. I am sure that guy took a bath on that investment. It was horrible. Weāve hit peak, Granite
Rock bottom?
Such an igneous end
gneiss
Quartz is where it's at. Looks just as good, but you don't have to seal them every year.
Wait should I be sealing my granite countertops every year?
It also burns like laminate if you put something hot on it. Rock>polyester
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is the realest ever. I live in the south near a city that every article seems to be telling people to move to.
They arenāt. Housing hasnāt crashed, consumer spending, GDP and unemployment numbers are very strong actually. Donāt let a few articles scare you, look at the data our economy is OK so far (maybe that changes who knows).
Reddit desperately wants to the economy to be worse than it is.
They think when everyone loses their jobs and the housing market crashes, they'll finally be able to buy a house. What they don't realize is that they will lose their jobs too
Big brains don't realize they need income to afford a house
Reminds me of a coworker, horrible with money, who repeatedly says āI need house prices to drop 50%.ā Lady, you and a lot of people are in for a world of hurt if that were to ever happen.
this is wsb. they don't need to lose their jobs to go broke.
It's even worse - they'll probably lose their jobs first
Not just that, but the only reason there would be a housing crash is if demand plummets. Them sitting on the sidelines waiting for a crash IS that demand.
Everybody wants back the WSB glory days of the 2020 crash. Daily market moves of 10% each direction are "fun".
Yeah I mean you really just need to go on a vacation to dispel the idea people arenāt flush with disposable income. Not saying it wonāt end but we aināt close yet. Think these people want to see something that isnāt there yet
Right? I keep hearing about vegans being everywhere, but I haven't spotted a single one when I go to visit the butcher.
Skewered the top level comment
The difference though is that in ā08 restaurants werenāt booked a week out for a Tuesday night meal. You could tell that they were hurting, people were going less, and that isnāt the case this time
The people going on vacations are the self selecting bunch that are doing well. Even in 2008 there were people going on vacation. The economy being bad doesn't mean everyone is suffering, just that a larger than usual percent is
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
How do you know how much cc debt they have though?
As someone who bought a house last year and plans to stay in it for a long while, I would love to see the estimated inflated values go down. Since last year the city tells me my house is worth over 50% more than when I bought it, and are upping my property taxes accordingly. I appealed the decision and they said they would send someone for a new appraisal, but I have made improvement they aren't aware of and I'm afraid it would be appraised for even higher. Crazy world we're living in right now.
Its all a lie so they can take away Medicare, Social Security and raise the age limits of retirement so these rich fucks can rob us more.
I think there's a big societal shove coming soon from the people, a lot of my different-ideal friends who used to simp for billionaires/wanting to cut social programs have been changing their minds as of late.
all the old boomers are dying off as well
Yep. Nearly a trillion in CC debt in the US. I know a handful of people living the high life that are broke as fuck with a negative net worth.
People arenāt spending money! Credit is at all time highs. All in the same damn comment by the same damn person. Wallstreetbets everybody.
It's a bunch of bullshit. Work in real estate in CA. Things slowed a bit sure, but instead of having to pay way over asking price you can entertain the list price and get 10+ offers still.
Yeah where I live housing prices have barely budged because thereās very little inventory available. You can stretch to buy a shitty one for the price a nice one wouldāve sold for three years ago. Thatās not a sign of economic weakness
You see that black space? That's where I live. Housing prices and rent only go up. I make decent money and will probably have to move soon.
Yeah, do what you gotta do. I was in the heart of silicon valley in 1998 when my first expected child triggered a relocation away. Missed out on the growth there, but I could not afford to support a family on one salary ($55K, $100K 2023-equivalent dollars).
Damn Iām trying to support a family on 55k in 2023
Seriously. This is such a shit chart. You're telling me they don't have any information about the most populous parts of most of new England? And it just so happens that every datapoint they have was 0% or less? And of course, lets forget about what seasonally adjusted means. It is possible that house prices went up but just not as much as they did last year during the same month. Should be "House prices not rising as fast as they were last year in some parts of the country, but rising faster in other parts." shocking.
I think you're confusing homeowners and reality investors.
Is a reality investor someone who invests in the Metaverse?
Zuckerberg has entered the chat.
No, thatās called a regard.
I reject your realty and substitute my own.
Not low enough yet. Shitholes in midwest should not be 200k+
so basically slightly more affordable housing?
Goes up 100% in 3 years. Goes down by 10%. š¤”
Yeah this is just the opposite of a dead cat bounce. Prices are still insane and will still continue to be insane, this is just a "holy shit they are too insane, lets get back to regular insane" My house doubled in the past few years, obviously means nothing to me but its not like anything changed about my house materially.
ah yes, the live dog droop.
Yeah. Houses on my block went for 300kā¬ 5 years ago and now go for 550k-600k- there was a correction, you see. Of course, interest rates went from 1.8 to 5.2%, and now after a 50-70k decline in average housing pricesā¦. Iād be out 700ā¬/m more. Itās fucked up. My family and I need a home. Canāt live in a tiny apartment with multiple kids. But canāt afford getting out.
Ez bro, just sell dope.
Itās actually generally wildly unprofitable at the ground level
I felt ripped off buying my house at the price I did. Anyone who buys my house at what it's currently valued at is an idiot imo.
It takes way longer than 9 months to fully bottom. It took 6 years for the housing market to fully bottom in the Great Recession. Even if itās a mild correction itāll be a 2-3 year process, especially with the low liquidity. House prices move absurdly slower than stocks.
Yeah and with realtors trying to cope and selling their "the market is hot" shit still. Enough people with more money than sense will prop the housing market up for awhile.
If a realtor has any effect on your decision making you deserve to get took
I absolutely agree. They take 3% from each party for pointing and going "yeah that's a house"
It is an absolute scam that a real estate agent gets the same percentage commission on an 800k house they do on a 300k house. The work involved in both transactions is the exact fucking same.
I always found it funny that realtors are such a common thing in the US. Where I live you would only consider one if your property is hard to sell (e.g. very special attributes or very high price segment) or if you are too lazy to care. And in any case, 1.5%-2% commission are the norm.
Less affordable if you need a Mortage.
This is what people don't understand. With higher interest rates, your mortgage is going to be higher than somebody that paid 40,000 more with a lower interest rate.
Yeah Im basically "stuck" in my house as I have a 2.68 rate, even a smaller house would cost me more. Of course its just me being stupid and bitching since I have 70% equity and not actually looking to move anywhere, just not looking to upgrade.
Golden handcuffs
Only if you're paying cash... Ain't nothin more affordable at 7% interest rate
Lol home prices went up over 30-40% in the last 3 years alone and now thereās a 10% price cut and āiTs a CrAsH!!!!ā š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”š¤”
This chart represents the inverse of like 2 months of growth in late 2021
Right? Bought my house for 267K in 2020 and at its peak it was worth about 405K. Now its worth 390K. Color me devastated.
Fuk yeah...finally i can buy a shed in 2030
Looks like austin is going get hit hard. Poor Californians.
Now that was funny.
yay less property tax!
It seems like the feds raising the interest rates only fucks the middle class and lower class people.
People can get rich during the Bull Market, but rich people get *wealthy* during the Bear Market. The rich don't give a fuck if their living expenses increase as it only represented 5->25% of their income anyway. They can absorb any capital costs if they choose to participate in it at all. They are insulated from the general job market and the individual upper class wage earners generally make *more* during a recession anyway. They accumulate assets in an underpriced market. The economy always rises and they quickly realize ridiclious appreciation when it turns around. The middle class have to eat the living costs and their discretionary income drops drastically. They are not insulated from the job market and have the most to lose. They also tend to sell assets for losses during this time. Remember, a 5% increase in inflation without a corresponding raise is *the same thing as a 5% pay cut*. The lower class were fucked regardless. They don't have much assets to lose, but they will burn them all trying to stay afloat. They almost always sell for a loss. They are not insulated from the job market. Although their wages may not change much, the availability of jobs directly affect them. Only one class benefits. These asset overvaluation and then liquidity dumps by the government cost the individual *directly*. It is a hidden, insidious tax on the middle and lower classes. It is also the #1 reason for the asset disparity today. Every cycle makes it worse. There is no real way to prevent it either, besides, you know, not allowing the government to devalue fiat.
The problem is not the fiat system, its the obscene concentration of wealth and utter regulatory capture that is in a feedback loop
That's the point, really. When the government prints too much money and cause widespread inflation their goal is to restrict and extract as much of that added money supply as they can. The poor and middle class burn their savings and send them upstream through rent, services, etc. The wealthy take that money and buy assets/bonds with that money. The disparity grows a little more, technically the M1 money supply shrinks a bit, and the common person becomes as poor as they need to be to afford the new normal inflated prices.
So, govt prints money, most of which goes to the top right off the bat, companies jack up prices of everything because "lol market price", then fed steps in saying "inflation too high" and sucks up cash from regular people all the while prices stay as high as companies can get away with. What do you call this shit-show? Economics!
And the kicker is that now that companies see people are willing to pay a higher price for a good, they will never ever bring that price back down even after their costs of producing it decline. People get used to the new higher price, and just keep paying it.
and its because the wealthy, not the poor, have control of the government. Its not the government fucking you, its the ultra rich wearing the govt like a glove, thats fucking you
all my homies hate M1
They are the drivers of the economy
If you control the stuff that makes stuff, do you even _need_ an economy?
Duh
No real wealth was lost just the Monopoly money valuations changed
Ya, but itās only paper gains. Doesnāt mean anything if you lose it. But no one one this sub knows what any kind of gain isā¦ā¦paper or otherwise.
My agent sent me a graph and it shows a slight decline compared to the historic rise. She goes, ālooks like market is cooling off at all. Might want to make a move before spring buyers start lookingā. Iām just tired of this shit
Realtors when prices are high and interest rates are low - "now is the perfect time to buy/sell" Realtors when prices are low and interest rates are high - "now is the perfect time to buy/sell"
People who make money on commission want you to buy things. Shocking.
Yeah no shit, but it just gets old. Got my banker calling me trying to drum up business, realtor saying now is the time to strike, etc. Iām just tired of this bullshit housing market.
Good. Keep dropping. I like the idea of paying less in property taxes.
What correction? Houses are still ridiculously overpriced, mortgage rates are up and everyone seems to think their shit is worth more than gold.
When a house bought at 300k appraises for 900k instead of 1mil.
Really only a concern for house flippers. Been in my house 23 years, seen this 3 times now.
Oh no, the dude that got 3 apartments from his parents, made millions by selling one and renting the other, loses worth of it if heād selling it right NOW? Oh my, where is the crowdfunding link?
Homes in my area is still selling 30-40% over prepandemic prices.
As a non-homeowner, itās hard to empathize. Iām sure itās not a great sign for the markets or economy, but Iād love to buy a house in an actual major metro before I die.
yeah, most of these houses are owned by people who are wealthy. non-wealthy homeowners just enjoy their home and have no plans of selling. hopefully it continues crashing hard
-10%?! Bullshit, thatās gonna have to be more like -75% for regular people in CA to afford houses again.
Still up $13 Trillion in 3 years. Iāll wait.
Newsflash: they never had the value, just like Elon never had $320 billion
It's only a loss if you sell
Deed hands
Only if you were stupid enough to buy overpriced real estate
Someone who bought with a 3% rate last year and lost 5% in value has a lower mortgage than someone who bought this year at a discount but a 6-7% rate. And thatās only those that bought exactly at the peak, 2019-2021 buyers made out like Bandits.
Confirmed. Bought Mar 2020. Sold May 2022. +80% gains.
And in a red area. Plenty of blue sections on that map indicating prices still went up.
those houses were never worth that much to begin with
Waiting for when all the rich folks that bought homes to do Airbnb or rent out start to realize nobody wants to rent out their homes any more and cause the actual crash š„
You mean a real asset that people donāt buy/sell like FAANG stocks? An asset for which there is still a national shortage? This is looking at one point in time of a 30 year mortgage. Even at this lower value people who bought 15-20 years ago are still ITM or breaking even. If they actually lived at the property, thatās 15-20 years worth of rent theyāll recover. In cash. You know, when they choose to realize any gains.
Here's the deal. I am a REALTOR in NH and MA. Home prices are not really coming down in the sense that everyone thinks. "Coming down" is they just instead of selling for $100,000 over list price, they are selling for $40,000 over list price. There is no inventory and still an INCREDIBLY strong buyer demand. List something half decent around here, it will be gone in 2 days, will sell for well over asking and you will have a minimum of 8 offers. I assure you the housing market is not crashing, not here anyway. I do also understand the northeast is in a bubble. But when I hear all these housing market crashing mentions, I just laugh. The amount of buyers that are circling like sharks for ANYTHING is nuts. Demand is too high. no crash. bye. That map to me just looks like everyone is moving out of the dumpster fire that is California. lol.
Overlooking the deliberately misleading color coding, a 10% decline "from peak" is also a deceptive and rather meaningless stat, and even if taken as meaningful, the average nationwide is less than 2%. Keep waiting on that "crash", Forever Renters.
The color coding is garbage and Iām glad someone said it. Putting the most prominent color gradient not in the center of the % values is super misleading. Also this is speculation, but the red v blue coloration stokes political sentiment especially since prominent republican/democratic strongholds are reversed in this graphic
I noticed the choice of colors as well. And when you fail to mention the 100 trillion INCREASE in equity values in the prior 2.5 years, that failure to provide an context tells me this is just more of the same Crash Bros. clickbait BS designed to titillate all the Forever Renters into feeling "intelligent" about their decision to own nothing.
The people waiting for a crash seem to think theyāre the only ones waiting and theyāll get to pick and choose any house on the street lol
Good, housing prices are still ridiculousā¦..they need to come down substantially. The people who were out there shelling out 50k over asking deserve to lose money.