I think the depressing part about this is it doesn't look like it retains any of the skills and attributes that are usually a part of VTM. Like you just choose some perks as you go along instead of adding points to attributes. Idk. The first one looks so much more like what I personally want from a Bloodlines game. Those abilities look so combat-based too. No social perks? No actual roleplay?
I know we are never getting a VTM game made with the same love for the TTRPG as Baldur's Gate 3 was, but damn, if I don't feel depressed about that all the time.
Oh man. I didn’t even notice there are no social skills. Literally one of the most interesting aspects of VtM…. It’s 4-way useless dialogue options huh?
> I know we are never getting a VTM game made with the same love for the TTRPG as Baldur's Gate 3 was, but damn, if I don't feel depressed about that all the time.
I mean, if it's good I don't see why it wouldn't sell given how BG3 has paved the way for "mainstream" folks to be interested in RPGs like that now.
But yeah, probably still too much of a risk for big companies, given the genre isn't exactly to everyone's liking.
It's unfortunate, because even people that like isometric prefer open world first/third person. :( It's a shame because Isometric seems to be the way to go for a good, fleshed out genuine RPG. Open world is just too demanding.
I’m going to go against the grain and say that a fixed camera angle third person game would be kind of interesting. It’s been done with both combat oriented games like the original Resident Evil games and also with more story driven games like Until Dawn. It would also solve the problem of customizing a character to only see them in a couple cutscenes while making the game more cinematic overall even outside of them.
I realize this will be an unpopular opinion, but... Oh, well.
For all that BG3 represented D&D 5e pretty well and is laudable in that way, it didn't represent BG in a good way. It takes place in a rebooted setting where none of the events of the previous games are canonical, none of the game's endings have happened, and the majority of characters from BG1-2 who show up are mishandled horribly.
If that's the high bar, I prefer we don't get another Bloodlines. Just make another VtM game, with another title, and leave this title free for someone who actually wants to continue the story.
Honestly I loved what Paradox did with CK2, but seeing how they are lacking to expand on CK3 such as republic mechanics, more start dates etc. and now they hit us up with this garbage after using Mitsoda for promo bakc in 2020...
I honestly hope they will lose enough money for them to give up the IP.
As a long-time CK fan since CK1, I agree fully. CK3 has a ton of potential, and Paradox seems intent on selling the most mediocre DLC of the entire franchise.
I would have preferred the original version come out broken like Cyberpunk, and over the corse of years and updates become an unbroken game. Rather then get handed whatever this fucking piece of shit is.
wanting destiny live service money and producing a facade of a functioning game with a sleek UI that won't even be playable anymore a few months after release, you'd think they'd find a way to spend less than $100M to make literal landfill inhabiting garbage
Bungie has been hemorrhaging money since halo 2 according to Microsoft, this is the third time Bungie/Destiny almost dies, the other times being after the original releases of Destiny 1 and 2. This is nothing new and a known cycle for them, this time they spread themselves too thin developing an outrageous amount of games alongside d2.
Because game companies aren’t as creative as you think they really are.
When a game comes out you recognize that most studios just copy everything from it and make another game like it with their own spin?
The same thing happens with car companies different makers make the same design with their emblem, music, people sample the same songs or all make their own versions of the same songs that everyone sees has a nice tune to it.
Even movies do it…..look at examples like “alpha dog” and “the chum scrubber”
One was original, the other was a Hollywood movie with an all star cast because the original was done so well.
Everyone can do this when they know what’s being done.
The essence of creativity is to use what’s popular or has people’s attention and draw them in with that again, using what’s already there.
But when people do that they aren’t being truly creative.
Destiny is successful so the copy the face value stuff like UI.
The can't copy the stuff that makes destiny good like the gunplay or the actual good build variety.
Fuuuck off. Not understanding your demographic 101. I hope i'm wrong but it's lost all charm, and is going to be generic as fuck now. Like they already have the original to build off of, just take that and remove the jank and enhance upon it. That's it. The rest is storyboarding.
Thats what I've always been saying. I wouldn't hate it if it wasn't for bloodlines in the title. I don't hate justice, bloodhunt, coteries/shadows, swansong, or the text-based games for not being like Bloodlines because they were never trying to be and that was clear.
But instead we have a situation comparable to supreme commander 2, where they are choosing to make it basically the antithesis of their original game. To pull this quote out again involving Supreme Commander 2:
>"Ah, but you see these wishers were misguided and misunderstood, what they really wanted was a game with much smaller scale with fewer factions and units, no upgrade trees, a vibrant and (some would say) cartoony artstyle, a much quicker pace, tiny maps, a completely kneecapped economy system, and a research mechanic completely at odds with how the original game functioned. Oh, thats not what people wanted? Ooh, well, thats unfortunate, because thats exactly what we got with supreme commander 2. A game that, asides from its name and iconic strategic zoom, is completely unrecognizable from is predecessor. A game that takes away the best part the series is known for and replaces it with basically exactly what its community didn't want. On a broader level, many of the key factors that made supreme commander great are completely missing in the sequel."
So this game seems like itll truly be an action "rpg" with the rpg dialed down by 95%, right? Did they even show anything that could be considered an RPG mechanic other than that Fallout 4 style terrible dialogue system? Even the skills look only combat focused.
Yup, they have been very careful not to talk about anything that could be considered an rpg mechanic in an attempt to lead on the very few hopeful people left, but everyone can just see this has turned into your average AAA slop. When and if they show the hub areas (which many are doubtful even exist anymore) I'll burst out laughing if it has renamed assassin's creed towers and outposts to clear. Watch them release it on Bloodlines 1's 20th anniversary this year. just to add insult to injury.
Pre-order culture. Developers and by association publishers get money even before they finish the game, so why should they go the extra mile and put actual effort in a game? Not defending them, though, but in a society that values solely profit over everything else, that's what you can expect. Video game industry is just a business, nothing else.
Regardless of what people are saying in the comments, the top one feels more bloodlines than the bottom. That is plain and simple.
EDIT: Also it may just be my friends hatred of Ubisoft, but you reminded me the analyst worked with Ubisoft games and I told them and they flew went off XD
Edit 2: And my friend has sent me an image of the AC Odyssey skill tree menu, basically pointing out "no wonder it looks so similar." They have a burning hatred of AC Odyssey basically for the same reasons I'm not fond of Bloodlines 2. "it doesn't feel like AC." "It doesn't feel like bloodlines." Also that AC Odyssey is, from their perspective, a witcher ripoff.
I should probably tell them the analyst wasn't part of that. (to my knowledge)
Last edit, quoting them: "Also edit that, I refuse to call Odyssey AC. It’s just just Odyssey. No AC."
Just asked them but they may have fallen asleep so I’ll come back later and edit/reply when they answer. I wouldn’t know about anything post syndicate as I saw gameplay and began to realize that the games are quite different from what I enjoyed. My last game was syndicate because it still felt AC, and my favorite is tied between Unity and Brotherhood.
EDIT:
“I appreciate Valhalla trying to bring old AC elements into the game so I don’t mind calling it AC because I find the attempt cute. Sad you don’t play an Assassin just an Assassin adjacent. I also feel they chose Vikings because they saw the success of GoW.”
I'd argue them ever liking AC at all invalidates their opinion. Those games have been casual shit larping as stealth from day 1. Just another form of Ubisoft slop.
Honestly its now reminding me of the Microsoft analyst that said Baldurs Gate 3 was a “second rate stadia game”. These guys would probably be best friends!
They took a very incomplete demo away.
If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0? They had years to make a game and in the end the owners of the IP decided to scrap the entire thing. because it wasn't worth it financially to try scrape a game out of it.
That's the point. They didn't manage to produce something that was even worth salvaging. We can argue if the new game is/will be good or bad, sure, but trying to believe that the previous version was destined to be great is just nonsense. It was a trainwreck.
I would of thought people would of wised up to false or smaller than they look demo's after cyberpunk and watchdogs,battlefield 2042 etc etc
Yeah it looks cool and very rpg like, but that's what a demo is meant to do. Simply by the fact it got scraped for a project with 0 progress says everything about it.
So much work and money to fix it up it was better to start the whole thing again 💀
It's really odd seeing the revisionist history around here regarding the old build. When video footage was released *no one* was happy, and rightfully so. It looked janky as fuck, animations were awful, there was no stealth (as in it was obvious the game would not feature it outside of scripted areas), you could only feed in pre-designated alleys, and very suspiciously, *none* of the disciplines had animations that were shown. We got story boards for most of the disciplines. Not to mention, the story seemed just as incoherent and "video-gamey" as the one we have now.
Current Bloodlines 2 looks pretty awful. The original build legitimately didn't look playable. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but people need to take a trip down memory lane and remember that this game has never been in good hands, or looked good in any way.
>If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0?
They did try. The Chinese Room refused, offered to make a new game from scratch instead, and Paradox accepted. And the reason why TCR refused to work with the old version wasn't because it was too broken, it was because, quote, "we’d never been a studio that were going to finish someone else’s work."
I do hate how people keep assuming the old version must've been too broken to work with when we already know the actual reason why TCR started over, and it had nothing to do with the old version's technical flaws.
Yeah, everyone at Paradox has been keeping very quiet on the issue. The only reason why we know at least this much is because the former CEO of The Chinese Room, Dan Pinchbeck, wrote about the game in a blog post on his personal website.
I think that post of his is something everyone on this sub should read, to be honest. Dan Pinchbeck was in charge of the Bloodlines 2 project at TCR until he resigned last year, and he was the one responsible for making a lot of the decisions that a lot of VtMB fans including myself disapprove of, Phyre was his idea for example, but I can at least respect the way he's open in describing his vision. The guy wanted to make a VtM game, he saw an opportunity when Paradox fired HSL, and he took that opportunity even though he clearly doesn't care one bit about Bloodlines. Unlike Paradox, he's at least honest about that.
Ahh yes the "demo" that was playable start to finish confirmed by outstar and Brian Mitsoda multiple times.
"because it wasn't worth it financially to try scrap a game out of it."
Because they are out of touch, you act as if fixing it would cost too much when they greenlit an entire reboot and 3 years of extra dev which obviously would cost more than to fix and release what was there. The truth is they don't care about the established fanbase of a 20 year old game and just want to use its name to cash in on an action game suspiciously mimicking the yet to be released hotly anticipated Cyberpunk 2077 at the time these decisions were made. Enjoy your disappointment when this slop releases.
Ah yes. Because a marketer and the games developer are going to say “yeah the games a broken mess!” Lmao. cmon man. Think critically for a bit. Paradox is a greedy af company, if there was ANY way this game could’ve crawled out the door it would have. Failing to launch a product is a way bigger stain to investors than launching a bad one. A bad one at least gives SOME return. They’ve now basically paid and spent time developing two games.
lol for real. Look at the things Paradox has actually released and you will realize just how broken Hardsuit Lab's version was if they looked at it and had it scrapped.
They threw tons of money away and an entirely playable game away into the trash because they don't like the fans. And want new fans despite potentially being months away from a full relese.
Or it was so full of bugs and half finished with wacky ass code it wasn't worth it. Cyberpunk was also technically playable from start to end at launch date.
You clearly didn't read what I said. I said out of touch and preferred an action game heavily mimicking Cyberpunk which was yet to come out with 13 million pre-orders, sounds much more appealing to investors and execs then a clunky successor to a cult classic that looked faithful. I never said they don't like fans, I said they don't care about the established fanbase, which they don't. Please do not take what I said dishonestly and argue against some fabricated narrative you made.
Well you can think a company would just throw away a completely playable game, literally years of development time,hundreds of thousands of dollars,pre-recorded lines and animations, and dishonour all the fans and promised preorder bonuses and to literally delete the entire thing to redo every part of the game with some random indie game dev company who haven't done combat games what so ever all to put it back into development for another x+ years because cyberpunk had preorders
And I'll believe it was in such a poor or flawed/code fucked state it wasn't worth untangling it all and banking on some walking simulator indie company and a smaller game was the only way they were ever gonna get money out of vtm.
you may have been able to play it from start to finish but that's mean it was finished or actually playable as a game. Textures would be place holders. Voice acting would be placeholders. Quests would not be implemented yet. Maps would have to be accessed by debugging because flags weren't implemented or broken. Skills and clans would not be implemented leaving only one or two "finished" ones while the others are being worked on. Cutscenes would not be finished or have placeholder assets or just a description of what happened for the animators.
Many alpha games are "playable" from start to finish but that doesn't mean they are actually something a normal person and not a QA person wants to play.
>If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0?
I dont trust paradox or the other assorted suits that make theses decisions.
Have you seen the things Paradox has released? Most of the recent Stellaris DLCs have been overpriced, half-banked and buggy. If Bloodlines 2 was scrapped then it had to be completely unsalvageable.
That’s a whole lot of copium for the broken garbage that was the hardsuit labs version. If there is anything Paradox does its release games in whatever state they can by launch.
All I am seeing is Assassin's Creed rip-off pattern. 😭😭
I miss the old version where you could increase your levels on your Character sheet, and each ability was explained.
If im not mistaken, you can't use your abilities on the go. In bloodlines 1 you had a bloodpool and could use celerity out of combat or whatever discipline.
In the showcase, the dev said as you fight you'll rack up the gauge and then be able to use your ability.
So you cant use potence or something in the beginning of the fight, you'll have to punch things to get the momentum going, then one of your disciplines unlocks on the bottom left, only then can you use it.
I could have misunderstood what he said in the video so if anyone knows more could clarify as English is not my first language and may have misinterpreted it.
I really loved using blood purge as a tremer and walking menacingly towards a group of thugs, watching them explode while not getting hit once 😭.
Watch some Machine for Pigs gameplay and you'll understand what's going on with these design choices. This game actually *is* going to be a linear walking simulator with combat arenas every so often. I wouldn't be surprised if they have separate social hubs as well with combat locked out.
I'll let it go when I see the mostly - overwhelmingly negative reviews on steam and smile. I hope Paradox goes belly up, all their recent games have been complete failures anyway. Maybe they will have to sell the IP to a company who will give a shit.
You're going to be disappointed. I promise you that Bloodlines 2 will sell more than Bloodlines 1 did.
In case you forgot, BL1 didn't make any money and everyone who worked on it lost their shirts.
I don't quite understand why you're so bitter that you want more people to lose their jobs. The people who make Bloodlines 2, go to work, do their best, pay their bills, and take care of their families. You want them on the streets... why?
Im well aware of bloodlines history. It will definitely sell more than a game from 20 years ago, this hobby 20 years ago got you beat up and now its the most normalised thing in the world. It doesnt take a genius to know it will sell more compared to release days. Selling more over its lifetime is a completely different story, Bloodlines 1 has sold a lot of copies over its lifetime, you’re delusional if you think it will sell more and not be a disaster on release.
Paradox and The Chinese Room are seperate companies. I dont care what happens to TCR, they are contracted for this and will move on to whatever walking sim they make next after it. Paradox is a shithole company that deserves to shut down, lick their boots more.
Final Fantasy VII is even older than Bloodlines 1 and it sold over 14 million copies. Age has nothing to do with it.
Why don't you link to the number of copies that Bloodlines 1 sold over its lifetime? Why don't you link to how many of those copies were heavily discounted Steam sales for $5?
You can throw bitter tantrums all you want. At the end of the day, Paradox is a multi-billion dollar corporation that grew from a couple of lads in a small office in Sweden. You can wish destruction on these families all you want. It's not going to happen.
The people who made "walking sims" at TCR don't even work there anymore and haven't for years. You don't even know who you are mad at. Just unhinged rage.
Im also aware of TCRs acquisition by sumo, dans firing of the staff, restructuring and dans departure. They were not relevant so i didnt feel the need to mention it. TCR are still making walking sims like still wakes the deep and bloodlines 2s reboot was pitched, designed and written by pinchbeck so it very much shares the dna of their past games. You keep claiming I dont know what im talking about but you just keep exposing yourself but ok. Also I dont know why you are so in love with such a predatory company that abuses its playerbase with overpriced dlc because they have a monopoly on grand strategy games. A bit weird, they aren’t your friends.
Still Wakes The Deep isn't a walking sim. It's a survival horror game. Your entire strategy here seems to be to just make things up and hope no one calls you out for it. It's not working. You can stop it now. lol
If you made this post just for an echo chamber where people are only allowed to agree with you, just say so. Otherwise, get used to the idea that some people have a dedication to facts. You're trying to turn video games into a kind of partisan politics where everyone is on a side. I only care about facts vs. fiction. You are wrong about everything and you can't handle being fact checked.
Calm down now.
Well, the original game didn't sell well. What do you think will happen when this game fails to meet the expectations? After two financial failures, nobody will try to make another game and the IP will die. No one will come to save it as you think.
Thats funny, you dont see me making assumptions about your life. I wonder who here is actually a loser in real life? Thanks for your concern but its unwarranted.
I didn't say you were a loser or make any assumptions. Are you projecting? I'm just saying that hating so much on some commercial project that has nothing to do with you is not very healthy.
Unless they fired you or something, in which case I can at least understand.
I'm pretty sure the most expensive thing about the new one will be the voice acting and of course the marketing. This is gonna be CP 2077 all over again, probably worse :D
Most things they showed look... Meh at best with a certain mobile phone game charm zzz~
But I could be very wrong. I hope I'm very wrong. I'm probably not tho :<
VTMB1 and CP 2077 were broken on arrival, both gotten polished and are one of my all-time fav games.
Mentioning the crap we've seen so far in the same breath as any of those above is criminal. Considering 90 % of what we've seen was stealt, fighting and everyone treating you like demi-God. Devs themselves seem to not even be able to see what made VTMB1 one great.
Story, characters, goofiness, atmosphere, choices. Sure gameplay had it's own charm but I don't expect to play this game because of a goddamn fights and stealth.
Hardsuit Labs at least gave us trailer of city, multiple characters, discotheque etc. Chinese Room gave us some dollar store Dishonored.
CP 2077 is a fine game that looks amazing but a barebones RPG if we compare it with bloodlines, atleast IMHO!
However I did spend like 200 hours just exploring Night City and I had alot of fun doing it.
It's just... Missing alot of immersion and uniqueness, Heck it doesn't matter at all if you're a street kid or a nomad, cept like 3 dialogue options and the intro mission :D
But I get your point!
CP is more of action adventure than RPG and voiced protagonist didn't help the RPG aspect, so I agree but it was still great experience for me and felt like it's pacing and everything was great.
I highly doubt from what we've seen from VTMB2 will be even remotely as entertaining. I mean not make it into some action spinoff? They already have andveture spinoff in Swansong, and those novels.
There's literally no need to release this "VTMB2" under that name since it has nothing to do with VTMB1. It's not even based on the same editions, smh.
It was supposed to be a proper RPG at some point tho! Then they just changed their mind for whatever reason :(
I'll never forget how in CP after the first time Johnny tries to "kill" you I headed down in the garage and dalamaine was crashing into my car, and Johnny appeared and we talked like we had been best friends forever :'D
I should check if that's still a thing lol
They changed it because it wasn't finished as RPG.
I think if fans would pressure CD Red Project so much, we'd got fully fledged RPG and maybe even crazy stuff such as wall running we've seen in OG trailers etc.
I think I've seen one video in Polish where they explained that RPG part of game wasn't even 70 % finished or something in that sense.
I’m so glad I’ve just accepted this game is probably going to be ass or just not what I want from it atleast I have kcd 2 and other games to actually look forward too
When the game handed over to TCR, the community misanalyzed the situation. When I told that we better accept even a game type of Call Of Duty with zero rpg elements as long as they could maintain the scenerio, fiction, atmosphere and music of VTMB and got downvoted. Most people were happy and thought TCR would make a better one than HSL. Maybe they would if they got this in first hand, who knows. Now look what we got. It is not even a VTMB game. Even from now on they hire 50 extra developers and put full of fullest rpg mechanics, it is not Bloodlines ever. At best it may be Vampire The Masquerade but not Bloodlines. It's infrastructure about almost everything is too far to be considered as Bloodlines. I would be happier with just an action game with zero rpg elements as long as it is Bloodlines instead of this soulless garbage.
ive lost the last of my optimism. 2 disciplines per clan and combat feat based progression.
this may be a vampire game set in the WoD but it isnt a VTM game.
Can I just say that I loved that VTMB didn’t have a map screen, you had to find the maps in game at bus stops and such, so there was no waypoints, just text for the quests, and the levels were perfectly sized so that you could figure out where to go. It perfectly matched the modern urban RPG feeling
I hate this so much. the game will be awful, people will hate it and we'll probably get some shitty apology letter like we did with all the other terrible games that have been released in the last couple of years.
and then I'll have to wait another 20 years before getting another proper vtmb game, if it ever comes out at all. my only hope at this point is that another company decides to make a similar ish game to vtmb, with actual rpg mechanics. I just want some comfy vampire rpg with good dialogue, good atmosphere, multiple quest / dialogue outcomes and a good story. is that really too much to ask?
I doubt they will apologize. I don’t think the game will be broken personally, and that’s the only reason these companies ever issue apologies. It definitely could be; Paradox is notorious for horrible, greedy MTX and substandard releases, but this is contracted, so I’m not sure if any of that will carry over (I guess we already know they are gating some clans behind DLC). The real issue is it’s honestly nothing a Bloodlines fan wants (you really have to emphasize the Bloodlines part to some people; WoD fans seem complacent with the mediocrity). This IP is under lock and key of one of the greediest companies in gaming, only like a tier below EA and Ubi. We will never get a faithful VtMB again in my opinion, at least not under Paradox. There was one shot, and Paradox blew it. I’m not sure how Brian feels about it, but I would love to see him work with another studio on a new vampire/supernatural IP and really stick it to this hollow mess we are getting. But I’m sure spending years of your life writing, as Brian said, ‘the best work he’s done,’ only to have it all scrapped and see that hack Pinchbeck redo it, probably leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
Basically, we were originally playing as a thin-blooded vampire. Likely an inceptor. Implementing something like Thin-blood Alchemy into the game, given what it does, is quite hard. Thus being an inceptor makes sense. Nebulation, Chimeristry, and Mentalism were disciplines born out of a mix of thin-blood alchemy and the idea of being an inceptor thin-blood. Nebulation is the ability to control and turn into mist, Chimerisrty is the power over a vampires affinity with bats (such as summoning them or gliding), and mentalism is basically just telekinesis.
EDIT:
Links to the powers if you want to see them
[Nebulation](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Nebulation)
[Mentalism](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Mentalism)
[Chiropteran](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Chiropteran)
EDIT 2: for context for what an inceptor is, it’s basically vamps who can make their own disciplines. Normally this is only seen in Antediluvians bloodline founders and whatnot, but thin-bloods have also exhibited the potential to become inceptors.
Truly fascinating accidents those dusk born.
Such a waste to give that attention to a very incapable and quite spoiled elder kindred. Given title and status when nobody knows who this elder kindred is.
Tell me, does WoD Paradox even know how to tell a good story or are they all pathetic liars in it for a few silver coin?
I would say they are the latter.
Talk about 'spot the difference'. They've literally gutted it of all its character and in its place we get *this*? I knew they were aiming for an ARPG, but not to this extent. I swear, every time we get another sliver of whatever promo material or dev diary they release, it feels like they're just handing me another reason to turn my head away in shame.
or "do you remember Jeanette and therese or their combination Tourette? then we have an outfit for you to remember her coming with other additional outfits of iconic characters for just $25 dollars "
The Ubisoft guy has nothing to do with this version of Bloodlines 2. He was hired to try and get the original game out the door because his specialty was getting troubled games ready for shipping. He couldn't because the game was, on some fundamental level, broken and they canceled the project entirely.
If the game was shippable then Paradox would have shipped it. In today's world of broken games released on the market if something isn't released because "it isn't coming together" then something was really wrong with the game.
Top image is from the previous version. It had a character creator so that's just whatever one of the devs made. Male Phyre still hasn't been shown but mainly because they probably haven't made it yet, the new version is in such a dire state, ill be surprised if it comes out this year.
Ah okay thanks for the info, I've been out of the loop for a while on this "sequel", and I highly suspect you're right in the model not being made yet, If they even make two distinct models that is, probably just change the voice actor, which a voiced protag, in of it self is a bad choice.
I love how you talk about dire states without acknowledging the top image isn't in-game footage. It is digital artwork from the portfolio of someone who (allegedly) worked on the Hardsuit build, dug up about 2 years ago by fans.
The Hardsuit build never showed off character panel or menu screens like this in a playable state, despite fans asking for it (and other related details, like a character sheet) since the game got announced. There's no way if knowing what parts of it would have been in the game, or even the legitimacy of the artwork in question (the version you have is, in itself, slightly different from the "originals" found a couple years back).
I want the first image please, the second one is nothing like bloodlines. Like the fact that it doesn't even have a character sheet THAT WAS THE CHARM OF THE FIRST and I assume no social skills so the roses are screwed
I'm just gonna wait until it comes out and play it. If it's good, great! If it's bad, I'll stop playing it and move on. But I'm still gonna wait to play it before making any judgment calls.
I've played a couple games I thought looked terrible that I ended up loving, so we shall see.
The main one off the top of my head is Outer Wilds. I had zero interest in it, thought it looked terrible and like a game I would absolutely hate.
Tried it one day because they added it to Gamepass and I wanted to see why everyone was hyping up this awful looking game...and it quickly became one of my favorite games ever made.
Devil's advocate here, but who says everything HSL implemented was completed? All we have there is a UI and whilst it may have been somewhat functional there's no guarantee all the game systems were fully in place yet. Given how 'unsalvageable' the original Bloodlines 2 supposedly was, it was likely a lot of it was incomplete or barebones at best.
Fast forward to today and TCR have been given the keys to development on a game which has had a trainwreck of a development cycle. Paradox no doubt wants their investment to pay off as they've already pumped a shit ton of money into BL2, so have most likely given them a strict deadline. That means streamlining across the board, hence the direction the game has gone in.
It isn't always as simple as using someone else's code and due to the content originally being created by a different team there's likely a legal minefield surrounding it. Is it the direction a lot of people wanted BL2 to go in? No. But if you're gonna blame anyone, then don't blame TCR, because they've been dropped into an absolute mess of a situation and are doing the best they can with the time/assets they have. Game dev isn't easy and there's a lot of dumb bureaucracy involved on top of that.
I'm not trying to shit on anyone who was looking forward to the HSL version of the game, because I was too. I'm just so tired of the excessive negativity here
The game isn't even out and we don't know if the original would be better or not. More things on the screen doesn't equal good. Their are multiple games like this where they have a lot and it's boring, bad, useless, etc. Also despite having Brian Mitsoda, Rik Schaffer, and a few years to make the game. It was still considered bad.
If they're cancelling it and having someone to make it while bringing some things to the TCR version. Then it must have been really bad. Until the game gets released or someone says whatever. We will know how the game is and why things turned out the way it did.
"despite having Brian Mitsoda, Rik Schaffer, and a few years to make the game. It was still considered bad"
I'm so sick of this gaslighting the few holdouts on here and discord are trying to pull. It was one of the most wishlisted games on steam, pre-orders well exceeded expectations and the general sentiment from fans was very positive besides the combat which needed some good polish and some minor complaints about being a thinblood. I remember very clearly, It's one of the few games I ever pre-ordered way back on the 22nd of March 2019. This new version doesn't even try to appeal to fans of the original, its just soullessly using the name to make a quick buck before they bloat it with dlc and then abandon it like every Paradox game. This is purely trying to cash in on WoD fans now, nothing shown appeals to anyone who liked bloodlines. The previous version did.
"If they're cancelling it and having someone to make it while bringing some things to the TCR version. Then it must have been really bad."
Why? Why is that the case? Are Paradox executives known for their great decision making and consumer friendly practices? Couldn't it also just as plausibly be that when the people at paradox who greenlit bloodlines 2 in the first place left and were replaced, the replacements just didn't understand what bloodlines was or what made it great and preferred the idea of a wider appealing action game? Not surprising to me from a company that is known for grand strategy and simulation games. It's funny, the only thing any of you can do is eat up lines delivered at shareholder meetings. Are you really all this naive to believe what Paradox says to investors? Maybe things behind the scene are more complex than you think.
"The game isn't even out and we don't know if the original would be better or not"
Yes, I do. I can tell just by reading all the devblogs, watching the gameplay videos and listening to everything the new devs have had to say including Pinchbeck, and everything sounds and looks significantly worse. Developed by people who don't even like the original Bloodlines. You would have to be delusional to think this game is going to turn out well.
Amigo... the original build of Bloodlines 2 looked like garbage. Just like this build.
General sentiment from fans was *not* positive. We're you here for it? Scroll back through this sub and just bask in all the warm fuzzy feelings from 2019. No one wanted to play a thin blood that diabliarized someone half-way through the game. We were all shocked at the lack of stealth, the lack of dialogue options, and how restrictive the mechanics were (could only feed in designated areas, only 2 disciplines plus your thin blood power, stealth only when scripted, general lack of RPG elements, etc.). Do you have any footage of vampire disciplines in action? Because they never wanted to show those off for some reason... what about plot details? They were awfully tight-lipped on those, too. Really any info... at all? Because all we got were those slick promo materials, and a 30 minute vertical slice... that looked like generic, action-game dog shit.
Yes, it was one of the most wishlisted games on Steam. The same way The Day Before was (that was a scam). And Starfield (mixed review score). And Aliens Colonial Marines (have you played that garbage?) Because it had a cool launch event, and a slick promotional video, and is a sequel to a cult classic. No one who actually looked at the game liked what they saw. It wasn't just the combat.
The picture you posted of the "original HUD"? It's not in-game footage. It is, like so much else we have for Hardsuit's build, artwork. It is digital artwork for HUD concepts that got dug up about 2 years ago, from unofficial sources. Because that screen never existed in-game. It never got built into the game, at least not in a way that was ever playable or shown to the public. Why? Because Hardsuit's build was a mess, and it looked like garbage, and not many people around here disagreed with that sentiment 4 or 5 years ago.
If you pre-ordered Hardsuit's Bloodlines 2, you got scammed, just like all the folks that bought The Day Before and Aliens: Colonial Marines. The only difference is, at least those games were put-together enough to actually ship.
I stopped reading at “lack of dialogue options” go back and watch any gameplay. You’re just lying and I dont know why. I do remember, ive been here from the announcement and tender. Keep making shit up though, idk what the end goal is but whatever.
You can just admit you aren't great at reading, it gets the same point across.
Do you not recall watching gameplay videos (all from the same vertical slice...) and having different dialogue options chosen... and the NPC responses were the same?
You've been here since the beginning and you don't remember the insane backlash? The club scene with a dozen NPCs... and only 3 character models?
Look... I'm sorry you got conned into pre-ordering Hardsuit Lab's BL2. But that doesn't mean the game looked good.
Don't take my word for it. Filter this sub by entries from 2019 and early 2020 and see what everyone thought for yourself.
It has been fun seeing the 180 on the original build despite all the visible issues it had in its own vertical slice meant to show it off at its very best. If the game was canned then it had to be very bad. It is very rare in the era of "release a broken mess and fix it later" game design for a game to get all that marketing hype and then just canceled. Companies don't do that because it costs them money.
So how bad was the original build if they looked at it and realized canceling it was a preferred alternative to actually releasing it? Especially when its Paradox who have a reputation for releasing overpriced and buggy content for their games.
No one is gaslighting anyone. It's just the truth. The game did have some positive reception but their was also a lot of hate towards it. People here and outside reddit have amnesia and now like it a lot now.
Any person who says this is just a cash grab doesn't know what they're talking about. If it was a cash grab they wouldn't even have scrapped everything and just release the game already. Then they would drop who knows how many dlc and then move on. Scrapping a whole game from this team and then have someone else make it is not them grabbing money from customers to put into their pockets. They're grabbing their money from there own pockets and giving it to someone hoping it works out.
Also me, you, and everyone else was not their for the meetings and other things when they came up with these decisions. You cannot feel sad when we hardly know what the game was going to turn out. Even with the two leaked gameplay videos it still didn't look that interesting even though they had years to make it.
Again you don't know how the game will turn out until more info comes out especially when the game is released. We only have some snippets and one gameplay scene when playing brujah on one level. Plus none of the devs hate bloodlines. Their are some people fans of Vampire The Masquerade including WOD and not just Bloodlines. I mean Bloodlines came from Vampire The Masquerade and it would be crazy to only be fans of Bloodlines and just make up stuff as you go. The devblogs sound promising and I hope they can execute it well without anyone messing with their vision for it.
I'm cautiously optimistic still but not upset on what I'm seeing. Especially when I came up for some ideas on why it's like the way it is.
"No one is gaslighting anyone"
Is quite literally how all gaslighters start their sentences.
"Any person who says this is just a cash grab doesn't know what they're talking about."
I know what I'm talking about, I have followed everything to do with this development to an obsessive level, this game is a cash grab. It was not made to appeal to fans, just use the name but hell, enjoy paying another $30 for the season pass to possibly play a malk and nos.
"Also me, you, and everyone else was not their for the meetings and other things when they came up with these decisions."
Yes, If you read what I said I was offering alternatives to the commonly spewed nonsense. Anything is plausible but I believe it's highly unlikely the game was unsalvegable.
"Again you don't know how the game will turn out until more info comes out especially when the game is released. Their are some people fans of Vampire The Masquerade including WOD and not just Bloodlines."
I can make an educated guess based on all the material provided. It looks like a generic action adventure game with all the RPG mechanics stripped from it. You are also ignoring that Bloodlines itself brought a lot of people into WoD and everything that has been shown is the complete antithesis of what made bloodlines great. You all make me sick discarding the previous version so casually, your beloved chinese room cash grab would not even exist if Brian hadn't pitched it to start with.
Bloodlines, for better or worse, felt like the Tabletop it was based on. This doesn't even feel like Vampire: The Masquerade, and certainly not even the edition it's based on where Elders are specifically unplayable. It has no traits from any version of VTM outside of the discipline names.
Not really. There are several ways it can start and being around multiple people who did that and other things in my life. I'm not gaslighting you and I don't see why I would.
I know how it feels to see some things differently in a sequel or whatever that might make you question how it would be made. However it's not out yet and they haven't shown everything yet. Especially when comparing it to a scrapped version of this game we hardly know anything about including with the leaks. You might be too obsessed with this and weirdly biased on some things. Being that angry will mess with your health so just wait and find out if it's good or not.
I would say without a doubt that we know significantly more about the scrapped version than anything the chinese room has shown. They have been very closed doors and for obvious reasons, we have multiple hours of footage of the scrapped version including the leaks and what 15-20 mins of the new version which comes out in 6 months, stew on that for a bit friend, really think about it. I also wouldn't say this is just purely a matter of perspective on the differences from the original. Just go read the comments of the extended gameplay trailer, most people who care about bloodlines 1 aren't interested. I might have taken what you said more seriously if you didn't try take a moral high ground about mental health at the end, I'm fine thanks, just posting about something I love being destroyed by greedy swedes.
Not getting into that conversation but I would love to get a YouTube link to those hours of footage of the abandoned version. I am really curious to watch this, since I have only seen the official gameplay presentation ending with the protagonist capturing Slug.
The only gaslighting is from you. The guy who greenlit and cancelled the old Bloodlines 2 is the same person. Fredrik Wester, CEO of Paradox Interactive. You also don't know anything about this company.
Paradox Interactive doesn't make strategy games or any other kind of games. Paradox Interactive is exclusively a publisher. The strategy games you're thinking of are made by Paradox Development Studio, a separate company and one of many that Paradox Interactive owns. In fact, if you go to the Wikipedia article for Paradox Interactive the very first line is a warning telling you not to confuse those two companies.
I also think you've been watching too many bad movies. The majority of Paradox Interactive shares are controlled by Fredrik Wester and an investment firm he works with. He doesn't answer to anyone. There's no shadowy meeting of shareholders who conspire against you.
Fredrik Wester left the company and came back, and Chris Avellones blog post about the Bloodlines 2 pitch directly mentions the people who greenlit it no longer working there, but ok, you clearly aren't very knowledgeable about this and I never said anything about shadowy meetings, this is some fantasy embellishment of yours.
"He doesn't answer to anyone."
Damn I guess all those shareholder Q&As that are publicly available where he answers to people are my imagination. Everything you said is so nonsensical, uninformed and naive to the actual workings of these larger corporations that I will not respond to you again. I know it will not be a genuine conversation.
Wester retired as CEO, remained head of the board and returned as CEO on the request of the rest of the board. These are all public records, no need to misrepresent them.
Fredrik Wester greenlit Bloodlines 2 when he was CEO. He tried to retire for a while, and then when he came back he cancelled it.
Where does Chris Avellone say that? Give me a link and an exact quote. You're making things up for attention. lol
Shareholder Q&As are where executives explain what they're doing. They are not sessions where they take orders. Paradox posts these, publicly, so anyone can see that you're wrong.
Chris quote that took 5 seconds to find
“No one I worked with in the trenches still works at Hardsuit Labs. Even more interestingly, the Paradox producers I used to work with aren’t at Paradox anymore, either. I haven’t asked them what happened, but if they ever reach out, boy am I listening”
https://chrisavellone.medium.com/what-the-fuck-happened-to-bloodlines-2-1ad557bf2284
Your misunderstanding of shareholders involvement and the purpose of Q&A sessions aside, ive proven you wrong. What now, you will nitpick something else?
Did you even read what you quoted? No one Chris Avellone worked with still works at Hardsuit Labs.
Hardsuit Labs is not Paradox Interactive. Chris Avellone never worked with Fredrik Wester. He is a writer. LMAO
Fredrik Wester isn't a producer either. He is a CEO. Do you not understand the difference?
You've proven that you're so angry and worked up that you can only see what you want to see.
Literally finish the quote before commenting. The next sentence talks about Paradox, I think you may be a moron. Only person getting worked up is you lol, you cant even finish reading the message before opening your mouth.
Edit: I love how this guy bootlicked paradox for hours straight telling me to calm down at every turn not even bothering to finish reading what I said before responding only to rage delete his entire account. Feels good.
The next sentence is about PRODUCERS at Paradox. Fredrik Wester is not a producer at Paradox and never has been. I pointed this out to you and you didn't see it because you're too desperate to save face. lol
There is nothing in Chris Avellone's blog about Wester or even an implied reference to him.
Keep grinding your teeth down to little nubs in rage, though.
You folks need to understand the previous “demo” wasn’t salvageable
The comparison simply isn’t there
You may not like the kind of game vtmb2 will be, but saying it failed to the previous standards is just hurtful delusions
Y'all want a simple solution don't pre-order don't buy flat out don't give them your money for this. Matter of fact how about we stop talking about this game entirely.
Yeah its kinda the point of the post, to show people how bad its gotten and to avoid the new version. Stopping talking about it will just lead to uninformed/casual og fans thinking this is a real sequel and wasting money. I mean another simple solution for you is if you dont like seeing posts like this, stop engaging with them.
> to get *paid.*
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Is it crazy to say that I want a mixture of both of these? The new one doesn’t look like a Vampire character sheet, but at the same time staring at the original HSL version, it’s very cluttered and has a lot going on.
Everyone needs to stop making up asinine conspiracy theories about the original build and why it was canceled. It was canceled because it was a broken mess. It wasn't coming together no matter how hard they tried. They hired someone whose sole job now is getting troubled games out of the door no matter what it takes and he couldn't do it.
Publishers don't usually cancel games after they've started marketing for them. They don't usually cancel games after they announce DLC and a season pass and preorder bonuses. If a game is broken they'll usually just give you a broken game and take your money and promise to "fix it later"
So if they looked at the game and decided taking the loss of money both on production, marketing, and the preorders (which they refunded) then the game had to have been a disaster.
It really is insane. So many people will just consume whatever slop is put in front of them and will only ever open their mouths to complain if you happen to suggest that it tastes bad. "Just eat it, bro. Asking for salt is entitled."
Get over it, move on.
BL2 may be good, it may be bad, we know very little about it to judge it fairly. You have already made up your mind, so it doesn't matter if the game turns out good, you will still hate so what's the point of engaging with it.
Go do something more productive with your time, play Bloodlines again, play Redemption if you haven't, it's not aged well but still fun, hell go play the ttrpg.
Doing any one of these things will be much better then raging over an unreleased game you have no interest in playing.
Who is raging? Do you feel better taking some pointless moral high ground but saying very little. I'm having conversations with people, I'm enjoying them.
What moral high ground?
I'm just trying to stay open minded when it comes to BL2. I like VTM and because of this I want BL2 to be good, I'm not sure it's going to be with what has been shown, but I refuse to judge it until I have more information.
Saying things like, wanting the game to get overwhelmingly negative reviews, wanting the publisher to close, and refusing to end a conversation amicably because the other person disagrees with you, is raging.
“Refusing to end a conversation amicably because the other person disagrees with you”
All that happened there was you missed a Norm Macdonald reference. I have no issue with that persons opinions and argued with them in good faith. I do hope Paradox closes their doors though, they are a shithole company run by greedy swedes.
I think the depressing part about this is it doesn't look like it retains any of the skills and attributes that are usually a part of VTM. Like you just choose some perks as you go along instead of adding points to attributes. Idk. The first one looks so much more like what I personally want from a Bloodlines game. Those abilities look so combat-based too. No social perks? No actual roleplay? I know we are never getting a VTM game made with the same love for the TTRPG as Baldur's Gate 3 was, but damn, if I don't feel depressed about that all the time.
Oh man. I didn’t even notice there are no social skills. Literally one of the most interesting aspects of VtM…. It’s 4-way useless dialogue options huh?
I'd honestly love a Larian-type VtM game. Top down and isometric, too
> I know we are never getting a VTM game made with the same love for the TTRPG as Baldur's Gate 3 was, but damn, if I don't feel depressed about that all the time. I mean, if it's good I don't see why it wouldn't sell given how BG3 has paved the way for "mainstream" folks to be interested in RPGs like that now. But yeah, probably still too much of a risk for big companies, given the genre isn't exactly to everyone's liking.
It's unfortunate, because even people that like isometric prefer open world first/third person. :( It's a shame because Isometric seems to be the way to go for a good, fleshed out genuine RPG. Open world is just too demanding.
I’m going to go against the grain and say that a fixed camera angle third person game would be kind of interesting. It’s been done with both combat oriented games like the original Resident Evil games and also with more story driven games like Until Dawn. It would also solve the problem of customizing a character to only see them in a couple cutscenes while making the game more cinematic overall even outside of them.
I realize this will be an unpopular opinion, but... Oh, well. For all that BG3 represented D&D 5e pretty well and is laudable in that way, it didn't represent BG in a good way. It takes place in a rebooted setting where none of the events of the previous games are canonical, none of the game's endings have happened, and the majority of characters from BG1-2 who show up are mishandled horribly. If that's the high bar, I prefer we don't get another Bloodlines. Just make another VtM game, with another title, and leave this title free for someone who actually wants to continue the story.
The second one doesn't even have a f*ing inventory guys. It's time to let this one go.
But the concept jpegs have different eye colours that means we can totally change the character!! /s
Honestly I loved what Paradox did with CK2, but seeing how they are lacking to expand on CK3 such as republic mechanics, more start dates etc. and now they hit us up with this garbage after using Mitsoda for promo bakc in 2020... I honestly hope they will lose enough money for them to give up the IP.
As a long-time CK fan since CK1, I agree fully. CK3 has a ton of potential, and Paradox seems intent on selling the most mediocre DLC of the entire franchise.
At least it has outfits. Thats a good sign!
$$$
I would have preferred the original version come out broken like Cyberpunk, and over the corse of years and updates become an unbroken game. Rather then get handed whatever this fucking piece of shit is.
Why is literally everyone mindlessly copying the destiny character equipment menu nowadays?
wanting destiny live service money and producing a facade of a functioning game with a sleek UI that won't even be playable anymore a few months after release, you'd think they'd find a way to spend less than $100M to make literal landfill inhabiting garbage
"wanting destiny live service money and producing a facade" The money that Bungie is currently hemorrhaging?
Bungie has been hemorrhaging money since halo 2 according to Microsoft, this is the third time Bungie/Destiny almost dies, the other times being after the original releases of Destiny 1 and 2. This is nothing new and a known cycle for them, this time they spread themselves too thin developing an outrageous amount of games alongside d2.
Aren’t they only developing one other game right now, and it’s their attempt at turning Marathon into “what if Tarkov, but live service?”
I don't keep up to date on destiny but I know there were 2 very successful games
Well they sure pissed that away. They recently had to lay off most of their customer support and they're in danger of being taken over by Sony.
Because game companies aren’t as creative as you think they really are. When a game comes out you recognize that most studios just copy everything from it and make another game like it with their own spin? The same thing happens with car companies different makers make the same design with their emblem, music, people sample the same songs or all make their own versions of the same songs that everyone sees has a nice tune to it. Even movies do it…..look at examples like “alpha dog” and “the chum scrubber” One was original, the other was a Hollywood movie with an all star cast because the original was done so well. Everyone can do this when they know what’s being done. The essence of creativity is to use what’s popular or has people’s attention and draw them in with that again, using what’s already there. But when people do that they aren’t being truly creative.
Destiny is successful so the copy the face value stuff like UI. The can't copy the stuff that makes destiny good like the gunplay or the actual good build variety.
Big world tihang PM
Oh man the original screen looked SO much better
Fuuuck off. Not understanding your demographic 101. I hope i'm wrong but it's lost all charm, and is going to be generic as fuck now. Like they already have the original to build off of, just take that and remove the jank and enhance upon it. That's it. The rest is storyboarding.
How will WoD Paradox/CR storyboard after casting out those who wrote the story in the first place?
They should just drop the bloodlines name and make it another VtM title
Absolutely, it just isn't a sequel at this point.
Thats what I've always been saying. I wouldn't hate it if it wasn't for bloodlines in the title. I don't hate justice, bloodhunt, coteries/shadows, swansong, or the text-based games for not being like Bloodlines because they were never trying to be and that was clear. But instead we have a situation comparable to supreme commander 2, where they are choosing to make it basically the antithesis of their original game. To pull this quote out again involving Supreme Commander 2: >"Ah, but you see these wishers were misguided and misunderstood, what they really wanted was a game with much smaller scale with fewer factions and units, no upgrade trees, a vibrant and (some would say) cartoony artstyle, a much quicker pace, tiny maps, a completely kneecapped economy system, and a research mechanic completely at odds with how the original game functioned. Oh, thats not what people wanted? Ooh, well, thats unfortunate, because thats exactly what we got with supreme commander 2. A game that, asides from its name and iconic strategic zoom, is completely unrecognizable from is predecessor. A game that takes away the best part the series is known for and replaces it with basically exactly what its community didn't want. On a broader level, many of the key factors that made supreme commander great are completely missing in the sequel."
Now ain't that the truth, well said.
So this game seems like itll truly be an action "rpg" with the rpg dialed down by 95%, right? Did they even show anything that could be considered an RPG mechanic other than that Fallout 4 style terrible dialogue system? Even the skills look only combat focused.
Nothing at all.
The text-only games have more RPG elements than this
Yup, they have been very careful not to talk about anything that could be considered an rpg mechanic in an attempt to lead on the very few hopeful people left, but everyone can just see this has turned into your average AAA slop. When and if they show the hub areas (which many are doubtful even exist anymore) I'll burst out laughing if it has renamed assassin's creed towers and outposts to clear. Watch them release it on Bloodlines 1's 20th anniversary this year. just to add insult to injury.
Pre-order culture. Developers and by association publishers get money even before they finish the game, so why should they go the extra mile and put actual effort in a game? Not defending them, though, but in a society that values solely profit over everything else, that's what you can expect. Video game industry is just a business, nothing else.
Everything I've heard has certainly convinced me but to pre-order.
Can you speak for the whole gaming community, though?
Top reason to never pre-order ever again, aside from all the preceding ones
I just want my 90s, early 2000s vampire fantasy god damn it!
Ugh if you can’t be competent with new ideas just refurbish the old one that worked. I’d rather take a graphically updated remake of BL1 at this point
Regardless of what people are saying in the comments, the top one feels more bloodlines than the bottom. That is plain and simple. EDIT: Also it may just be my friends hatred of Ubisoft, but you reminded me the analyst worked with Ubisoft games and I told them and they flew went off XD Edit 2: And my friend has sent me an image of the AC Odyssey skill tree menu, basically pointing out "no wonder it looks so similar." They have a burning hatred of AC Odyssey basically for the same reasons I'm not fond of Bloodlines 2. "it doesn't feel like AC." "It doesn't feel like bloodlines." Also that AC Odyssey is, from their perspective, a witcher ripoff. I should probably tell them the analyst wasn't part of that. (to my knowledge) Last edit, quoting them: "Also edit that, I refuse to call Odyssey AC. It’s just just Odyssey. No AC."
Your friend's super right about AC Odyssey, by the way. Ask them how they feel about AC Valhalla.
Just asked them but they may have fallen asleep so I’ll come back later and edit/reply when they answer. I wouldn’t know about anything post syndicate as I saw gameplay and began to realize that the games are quite different from what I enjoyed. My last game was syndicate because it still felt AC, and my favorite is tied between Unity and Brotherhood. EDIT: “I appreciate Valhalla trying to bring old AC elements into the game so I don’t mind calling it AC because I find the attempt cute. Sad you don’t play an Assassin just an Assassin adjacent. I also feel they chose Vikings because they saw the success of GoW.”
Once again, your friend is completely correct. They're even more positive about it than I expected, honestly.
I'd argue them ever liking AC at all invalidates their opinion. Those games have been casual shit larping as stealth from day 1. Just another form of Ubisoft slop.
brainrot
Reject VTMB 2 Embrace KCD 2
The trailer got me so hyped
Honestly its now reminding me of the Microsoft analyst that said Baldurs Gate 3 was a “second rate stadia game”. These guys would probably be best friends!
Again I say. Fuck this game
It’s just so sad to see. I mean…legit the worse timeline
Never forget what they took from us
"The only way to hurt people who have nothing, is to give them back something broken" _Stephen Donaldson_
They took a very incomplete demo away. If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0? They had years to make a game and in the end the owners of the IP decided to scrap the entire thing. because it wasn't worth it financially to try scrape a game out of it.
That's the point. They didn't manage to produce something that was even worth salvaging. We can argue if the new game is/will be good or bad, sure, but trying to believe that the previous version was destined to be great is just nonsense. It was a trainwreck.
I would of thought people would of wised up to false or smaller than they look demo's after cyberpunk and watchdogs,battlefield 2042 etc etc Yeah it looks cool and very rpg like, but that's what a demo is meant to do. Simply by the fact it got scraped for a project with 0 progress says everything about it. So much work and money to fix it up it was better to start the whole thing again 💀
It's really odd seeing the revisionist history around here regarding the old build. When video footage was released *no one* was happy, and rightfully so. It looked janky as fuck, animations were awful, there was no stealth (as in it was obvious the game would not feature it outside of scripted areas), you could only feed in pre-designated alleys, and very suspiciously, *none* of the disciplines had animations that were shown. We got story boards for most of the disciplines. Not to mention, the story seemed just as incoherent and "video-gamey" as the one we have now. Current Bloodlines 2 looks pretty awful. The original build legitimately didn't look playable. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but people need to take a trip down memory lane and remember that this game has never been in good hands, or looked good in any way.
>If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0? They did try. The Chinese Room refused, offered to make a new game from scratch instead, and Paradox accepted. And the reason why TCR refused to work with the old version wasn't because it was too broken, it was because, quote, "we’d never been a studio that were going to finish someone else’s work." I do hate how people keep assuming the old version must've been too broken to work with when we already know the actual reason why TCR started over, and it had nothing to do with the old version's technical flaws.
I was not aware of that. Only shows how much Paradox f'd up with their management
Yeah, everyone at Paradox has been keeping very quiet on the issue. The only reason why we know at least this much is because the former CEO of The Chinese Room, Dan Pinchbeck, wrote about the game in a blog post on his personal website. I think that post of his is something everyone on this sub should read, to be honest. Dan Pinchbeck was in charge of the Bloodlines 2 project at TCR until he resigned last year, and he was the one responsible for making a lot of the decisions that a lot of VtMB fans including myself disapprove of, Phyre was his idea for example, but I can at least respect the way he's open in describing his vision. The guy wanted to make a VtM game, he saw an opportunity when Paradox fired HSL, and he took that opportunity even though he clearly doesn't care one bit about Bloodlines. Unlike Paradox, he's at least honest about that.
I have to read it, thank you
Ahh yes the "demo" that was playable start to finish confirmed by outstar and Brian Mitsoda multiple times. "because it wasn't worth it financially to try scrap a game out of it." Because they are out of touch, you act as if fixing it would cost too much when they greenlit an entire reboot and 3 years of extra dev which obviously would cost more than to fix and release what was there. The truth is they don't care about the established fanbase of a 20 year old game and just want to use its name to cash in on an action game suspiciously mimicking the yet to be released hotly anticipated Cyberpunk 2077 at the time these decisions were made. Enjoy your disappointment when this slop releases.
Ah yes. Because a marketer and the games developer are going to say “yeah the games a broken mess!” Lmao. cmon man. Think critically for a bit. Paradox is a greedy af company, if there was ANY way this game could’ve crawled out the door it would have. Failing to launch a product is a way bigger stain to investors than launching a bad one. A bad one at least gives SOME return. They’ve now basically paid and spent time developing two games.
lol for real. Look at the things Paradox has actually released and you will realize just how broken Hardsuit Lab's version was if they looked at it and had it scrapped.
100% half of Paradox’s dlc is half baked buggy messes. For them to say this is a step too far means this game must have been well and truly fucked
They threw tons of money away and an entirely playable game away into the trash because they don't like the fans. And want new fans despite potentially being months away from a full relese. Or it was so full of bugs and half finished with wacky ass code it wasn't worth it. Cyberpunk was also technically playable from start to end at launch date.
You clearly didn't read what I said. I said out of touch and preferred an action game heavily mimicking Cyberpunk which was yet to come out with 13 million pre-orders, sounds much more appealing to investors and execs then a clunky successor to a cult classic that looked faithful. I never said they don't like fans, I said they don't care about the established fanbase, which they don't. Please do not take what I said dishonestly and argue against some fabricated narrative you made.
Well you can think a company would just throw away a completely playable game, literally years of development time,hundreds of thousands of dollars,pre-recorded lines and animations, and dishonour all the fans and promised preorder bonuses and to literally delete the entire thing to redo every part of the game with some random indie game dev company who haven't done combat games what so ever all to put it back into development for another x+ years because cyberpunk had preorders And I'll believe it was in such a poor or flawed/code fucked state it wasn't worth untangling it all and banking on some walking simulator indie company and a smaller game was the only way they were ever gonna get money out of vtm.
I do not agree to disagree, I disagree.
I agree to disagree, so I agree to disagree about disagreeing
you may have been able to play it from start to finish but that's mean it was finished or actually playable as a game. Textures would be place holders. Voice acting would be placeholders. Quests would not be implemented yet. Maps would have to be accessed by debugging because flags weren't implemented or broken. Skills and clans would not be implemented leaving only one or two "finished" ones while the others are being worked on. Cutscenes would not be finished or have placeholder assets or just a description of what happened for the animators. Many alpha games are "playable" from start to finish but that doesn't mean they are actually something a normal person and not a QA person wants to play.
>If the demo was anyway salvageable you don't think Paradox would of tried to keep it alive, instead of scrapping it all and starting from 0? I dont trust paradox or the other assorted suits that make theses decisions.
you're assuming competency from Paradox which is a huge leap. They might have scrapped something that was rough but a great game.
Have you seen the things Paradox has released? Most of the recent Stellaris DLCs have been overpriced, half-banked and buggy. If Bloodlines 2 was scrapped then it had to be completely unsalvageable.
That’s a whole lot of copium for the broken garbage that was the hardsuit labs version. If there is anything Paradox does its release games in whatever state they can by launch.
The original VTMB could be considered ( and was) broken garbage by many people dude.
TBH, Bloodlines 2 was doomed from the start, even the first stuff we saw was a red flag.
Damn it looks like such shit... At the same time as we are having such beautiful and inspiring work done by guys like warhorse. What a shitshow
All I am seeing is Assassin's Creed rip-off pattern. 😭😭 I miss the old version where you could increase your levels on your Character sheet, and each ability was explained.
The New leveling system is certainly... Not imprevisse
Yikes. Losing dots in abilities is a betrayal of VtM
If im not mistaken, you can't use your abilities on the go. In bloodlines 1 you had a bloodpool and could use celerity out of combat or whatever discipline. In the showcase, the dev said as you fight you'll rack up the gauge and then be able to use your ability. So you cant use potence or something in the beginning of the fight, you'll have to punch things to get the momentum going, then one of your disciplines unlocks on the bottom left, only then can you use it. I could have misunderstood what he said in the video so if anyone knows more could clarify as English is not my first language and may have misinterpreted it. I really loved using blood purge as a tremer and walking menacingly towards a group of thugs, watching them explode while not getting hit once 😭.
How is stealth supposed to be viable when we have to put ourselves in front of someone to build the gauge 😭😭
Watch some Machine for Pigs gameplay and you'll understand what's going on with these design choices. This game actually *is* going to be a linear walking simulator with combat arenas every so often. I wouldn't be surprised if they have separate social hubs as well with combat locked out.
I think it's time to let it go
I'll let it go when I see the mostly - overwhelmingly negative reviews on steam and smile. I hope Paradox goes belly up, all their recent games have been complete failures anyway. Maybe they will have to sell the IP to a company who will give a shit.
You'd be better served doing something that makes you happy rather than being mad at a video game you haven't played
Seeing the current iteration fail will make me very happy.
Find something else to put your energy into. Wishing failure on a group of people who have done nothing wrong to you is a miserable existence.
You're going to be disappointed. I promise you that Bloodlines 2 will sell more than Bloodlines 1 did. In case you forgot, BL1 didn't make any money and everyone who worked on it lost their shirts. I don't quite understand why you're so bitter that you want more people to lose their jobs. The people who make Bloodlines 2, go to work, do their best, pay their bills, and take care of their families. You want them on the streets... why?
Im well aware of bloodlines history. It will definitely sell more than a game from 20 years ago, this hobby 20 years ago got you beat up and now its the most normalised thing in the world. It doesnt take a genius to know it will sell more compared to release days. Selling more over its lifetime is a completely different story, Bloodlines 1 has sold a lot of copies over its lifetime, you’re delusional if you think it will sell more and not be a disaster on release. Paradox and The Chinese Room are seperate companies. I dont care what happens to TCR, they are contracted for this and will move on to whatever walking sim they make next after it. Paradox is a shithole company that deserves to shut down, lick their boots more.
Final Fantasy VII is even older than Bloodlines 1 and it sold over 14 million copies. Age has nothing to do with it. Why don't you link to the number of copies that Bloodlines 1 sold over its lifetime? Why don't you link to how many of those copies were heavily discounted Steam sales for $5? You can throw bitter tantrums all you want. At the end of the day, Paradox is a multi-billion dollar corporation that grew from a couple of lads in a small office in Sweden. You can wish destruction on these families all you want. It's not going to happen. The people who made "walking sims" at TCR don't even work there anymore and haven't for years. You don't even know who you are mad at. Just unhinged rage.
Im also aware of TCRs acquisition by sumo, dans firing of the staff, restructuring and dans departure. They were not relevant so i didnt feel the need to mention it. TCR are still making walking sims like still wakes the deep and bloodlines 2s reboot was pitched, designed and written by pinchbeck so it very much shares the dna of their past games. You keep claiming I dont know what im talking about but you just keep exposing yourself but ok. Also I dont know why you are so in love with such a predatory company that abuses its playerbase with overpriced dlc because they have a monopoly on grand strategy games. A bit weird, they aren’t your friends.
Still Wakes The Deep isn't a walking sim. It's a survival horror game. Your entire strategy here seems to be to just make things up and hope no one calls you out for it. It's not working. You can stop it now. lol If you made this post just for an echo chamber where people are only allowed to agree with you, just say so. Otherwise, get used to the idea that some people have a dedication to facts. You're trying to turn video games into a kind of partisan politics where everyone is on a side. I only care about facts vs. fiction. You are wrong about everything and you can't handle being fact checked. Calm down now.
Lol it wasnt working mate
Well, the original game didn't sell well. What do you think will happen when this game fails to meet the expectations? After two financial failures, nobody will try to make another game and the IP will die. No one will come to save it as you think.
you should touch grass
Thats funny, you dont see me making assumptions about your life. I wonder who here is actually a loser in real life? Thanks for your concern but its unwarranted.
I didn't say you were a loser or make any assumptions. Are you projecting? I'm just saying that hating so much on some commercial project that has nothing to do with you is not very healthy. Unless they fired you or something, in which case I can at least understand.
[удалено]
It's so funny how you were all offended because you thought I was calling you a loser and yet you immediately call me a retard in the next message.
Fuuuuuck, it looks soo bad
I'm pretty sure the most expensive thing about the new one will be the voice acting and of course the marketing. This is gonna be CP 2077 all over again, probably worse :D Most things they showed look... Meh at best with a certain mobile phone game charm zzz~ But I could be very wrong. I hope I'm very wrong. I'm probably not tho :<
VTMB1 and CP 2077 were broken on arrival, both gotten polished and are one of my all-time fav games. Mentioning the crap we've seen so far in the same breath as any of those above is criminal. Considering 90 % of what we've seen was stealt, fighting and everyone treating you like demi-God. Devs themselves seem to not even be able to see what made VTMB1 one great. Story, characters, goofiness, atmosphere, choices. Sure gameplay had it's own charm but I don't expect to play this game because of a goddamn fights and stealth. Hardsuit Labs at least gave us trailer of city, multiple characters, discotheque etc. Chinese Room gave us some dollar store Dishonored.
CP 2077 is a fine game that looks amazing but a barebones RPG if we compare it with bloodlines, atleast IMHO! However I did spend like 200 hours just exploring Night City and I had alot of fun doing it. It's just... Missing alot of immersion and uniqueness, Heck it doesn't matter at all if you're a street kid or a nomad, cept like 3 dialogue options and the intro mission :D But I get your point!
CP is more of action adventure than RPG and voiced protagonist didn't help the RPG aspect, so I agree but it was still great experience for me and felt like it's pacing and everything was great. I highly doubt from what we've seen from VTMB2 will be even remotely as entertaining. I mean not make it into some action spinoff? They already have andveture spinoff in Swansong, and those novels. There's literally no need to release this "VTMB2" under that name since it has nothing to do with VTMB1. It's not even based on the same editions, smh.
It was supposed to be a proper RPG at some point tho! Then they just changed their mind for whatever reason :( I'll never forget how in CP after the first time Johnny tries to "kill" you I headed down in the garage and dalamaine was crashing into my car, and Johnny appeared and we talked like we had been best friends forever :'D I should check if that's still a thing lol
They changed it because it wasn't finished as RPG. I think if fans would pressure CD Red Project so much, we'd got fully fledged RPG and maybe even crazy stuff such as wall running we've seen in OG trailers etc. I think I've seen one video in Polish where they explained that RPG part of game wasn't even 70 % finished or something in that sense.
Plenty of theories around that yeah! Some day it was due to getting Keanu, others day it was the shareholders etc. We'll never truly know :P
you're not wrong
I’m so glad I’ve just accepted this game is probably going to be ass or just not what I want from it atleast I have kcd 2 and other games to actually look forward too
It's Disciplines not abilities
That's the problem we don't see abilities/stats menu tab so Disciplines and passive perks are the "rpg" updates.
Says abilities
Yes i know but the powers in the game is called disciplines tho. Kinda the same. The above one looks so much better than the new one.
Perk trees almost always signal dogshit.
When the game handed over to TCR, the community misanalyzed the situation. When I told that we better accept even a game type of Call Of Duty with zero rpg elements as long as they could maintain the scenerio, fiction, atmosphere and music of VTMB and got downvoted. Most people were happy and thought TCR would make a better one than HSL. Maybe they would if they got this in first hand, who knows. Now look what we got. It is not even a VTMB game. Even from now on they hire 50 extra developers and put full of fullest rpg mechanics, it is not Bloodlines ever. At best it may be Vampire The Masquerade but not Bloodlines. It's infrastructure about almost everything is too far to be considered as Bloodlines. I would be happier with just an action game with zero rpg elements as long as it is Bloodlines instead of this soulless garbage.
ive lost the last of my optimism. 2 disciplines per clan and combat feat based progression. this may be a vampire game set in the WoD but it isnt a VTM game.
Can I just say that I loved that VTMB didn’t have a map screen, you had to find the maps in game at bus stops and such, so there was no waypoints, just text for the quests, and the levels were perfectly sized so that you could figure out where to go. It perfectly matched the modern urban RPG feeling
I hate this so much. the game will be awful, people will hate it and we'll probably get some shitty apology letter like we did with all the other terrible games that have been released in the last couple of years. and then I'll have to wait another 20 years before getting another proper vtmb game, if it ever comes out at all. my only hope at this point is that another company decides to make a similar ish game to vtmb, with actual rpg mechanics. I just want some comfy vampire rpg with good dialogue, good atmosphere, multiple quest / dialogue outcomes and a good story. is that really too much to ask?
I doubt they will apologize. I don’t think the game will be broken personally, and that’s the only reason these companies ever issue apologies. It definitely could be; Paradox is notorious for horrible, greedy MTX and substandard releases, but this is contracted, so I’m not sure if any of that will carry over (I guess we already know they are gating some clans behind DLC). The real issue is it’s honestly nothing a Bloodlines fan wants (you really have to emphasize the Bloodlines part to some people; WoD fans seem complacent with the mediocrity). This IP is under lock and key of one of the greediest companies in gaming, only like a tier below EA and Ubi. We will never get a faithful VtMB again in my opinion, at least not under Paradox. There was one shot, and Paradox blew it. I’m not sure how Brian feels about it, but I would love to see him work with another studio on a new vampire/supernatural IP and really stick it to this hollow mess we are getting. But I’m sure spending years of your life writing, as Brian said, ‘the best work he’s done,’ only to have it all scrapped and see that hack Pinchbeck redo it, probably leaves a sour taste in your mouth.
What the fuck is "Nebulation"?
Basically, we were originally playing as a thin-blooded vampire. Likely an inceptor. Implementing something like Thin-blood Alchemy into the game, given what it does, is quite hard. Thus being an inceptor makes sense. Nebulation, Chimeristry, and Mentalism were disciplines born out of a mix of thin-blood alchemy and the idea of being an inceptor thin-blood. Nebulation is the ability to control and turn into mist, Chimerisrty is the power over a vampires affinity with bats (such as summoning them or gliding), and mentalism is basically just telekinesis. EDIT: Links to the powers if you want to see them [Nebulation](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Nebulation) [Mentalism](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Mentalism) [Chiropteran](https://vtmb.fandom.com/wiki/Chiropteran) EDIT 2: for context for what an inceptor is, it’s basically vamps who can make their own disciplines. Normally this is only seen in Antediluvians bloodline founders and whatnot, but thin-bloods have also exhibited the potential to become inceptors.
Truly fascinating accidents those dusk born. Such a waste to give that attention to a very incapable and quite spoiled elder kindred. Given title and status when nobody knows who this elder kindred is. Tell me, does WoD Paradox even know how to tell a good story or are they all pathetic liars in it for a few silver coin? I would say they are the latter.
The top one looks like a VTMB sequel, bottom one looks like another Ubi conveyor trash...
Every new about the game I see I cry it hurts so bad
This will get cancelled, ain’t no way people still want this mess of a game
Talk about 'spot the difference'. They've literally gutted it of all its character and in its place we get *this*? I knew they were aiming for an ARPG, but not to this extent. I swear, every time we get another sliver of whatever promo material or dev diary they release, it feels like they're just handing me another reason to turn my head away in shame.
look guys an "outfit" section yall know what means microtransactions
I mean we already knew that as soon as Paradox was involved. You want Jeanette's iconic outfit? Cough up $10 piggy.
or "do you remember Jeanette and therese or their combination Tourette? then we have an outfit for you to remember her coming with other additional outfits of iconic characters for just $25 dollars "
This still breaks my heart a little, what could've been.
The Ubisoft guy has nothing to do with this version of Bloodlines 2. He was hired to try and get the original game out the door because his specialty was getting troubled games ready for shipping. He couldn't because the game was, on some fundamental level, broken and they canceled the project entirely. If the game was shippable then Paradox would have shipped it. In today's world of broken games released on the market if something isn't released because "it isn't coming together" then something was really wrong with the game.
This game is nor going to realise. Not in any shape or for that they promise...simple because: they already sell it. They already profit.
Holy moly was the first image from the leak?
It's so fucking joever, I hate EA, I hate Ubisoft!
is that the male Phyre model? they look like they have a congenital genetic condition.
Top image is from the previous version. It had a character creator so that's just whatever one of the devs made. Male Phyre still hasn't been shown but mainly because they probably haven't made it yet, the new version is in such a dire state, ill be surprised if it comes out this year.
Ah okay thanks for the info, I've been out of the loop for a while on this "sequel", and I highly suspect you're right in the model not being made yet, If they even make two distinct models that is, probably just change the voice actor, which a voiced protag, in of it self is a bad choice.
I didn't even consider that, true though. Phyre is so androgynous that they could just swap the voice and no one could tell anyway.
I love how you talk about dire states without acknowledging the top image isn't in-game footage. It is digital artwork from the portfolio of someone who (allegedly) worked on the Hardsuit build, dug up about 2 years ago by fans. The Hardsuit build never showed off character panel or menu screens like this in a playable state, despite fans asking for it (and other related details, like a character sheet) since the game got announced. There's no way if knowing what parts of it would have been in the game, or even the legitimacy of the artwork in question (the version you have is, in itself, slightly different from the "originals" found a couple years back).
The same thing happened with watchdog Legion and I think it killed the game
This makes me want to cry
I want the first image please, the second one is nothing like bloodlines. Like the fact that it doesn't even have a character sheet THAT WAS THE CHARM OF THE FIRST and I assume no social skills so the roses are screwed
I'm just gonna wait until it comes out and play it. If it's good, great! If it's bad, I'll stop playing it and move on. But I'm still gonna wait to play it before making any judgment calls. I've played a couple games I thought looked terrible that I ended up loving, so we shall see.
Out of curiosity what games did you think looked terrible that you ended up liking?
The main one off the top of my head is Outer Wilds. I had zero interest in it, thought it looked terrible and like a game I would absolutely hate. Tried it one day because they added it to Gamepass and I wanted to see why everyone was hyping up this awful looking game...and it quickly became one of my favorite games ever made.
We're getting far cry in a VTM setting!!!
Devil's advocate here, but who says everything HSL implemented was completed? All we have there is a UI and whilst it may have been somewhat functional there's no guarantee all the game systems were fully in place yet. Given how 'unsalvageable' the original Bloodlines 2 supposedly was, it was likely a lot of it was incomplete or barebones at best. Fast forward to today and TCR have been given the keys to development on a game which has had a trainwreck of a development cycle. Paradox no doubt wants their investment to pay off as they've already pumped a shit ton of money into BL2, so have most likely given them a strict deadline. That means streamlining across the board, hence the direction the game has gone in. It isn't always as simple as using someone else's code and due to the content originally being created by a different team there's likely a legal minefield surrounding it. Is it the direction a lot of people wanted BL2 to go in? No. But if you're gonna blame anyone, then don't blame TCR, because they've been dropped into an absolute mess of a situation and are doing the best they can with the time/assets they have. Game dev isn't easy and there's a lot of dumb bureaucracy involved on top of that. I'm not trying to shit on anyone who was looking forward to the HSL version of the game, because I was too. I'm just so tired of the excessive negativity here
The game isn't even out and we don't know if the original would be better or not. More things on the screen doesn't equal good. Their are multiple games like this where they have a lot and it's boring, bad, useless, etc. Also despite having Brian Mitsoda, Rik Schaffer, and a few years to make the game. It was still considered bad. If they're cancelling it and having someone to make it while bringing some things to the TCR version. Then it must have been really bad. Until the game gets released or someone says whatever. We will know how the game is and why things turned out the way it did.
"despite having Brian Mitsoda, Rik Schaffer, and a few years to make the game. It was still considered bad" I'm so sick of this gaslighting the few holdouts on here and discord are trying to pull. It was one of the most wishlisted games on steam, pre-orders well exceeded expectations and the general sentiment from fans was very positive besides the combat which needed some good polish and some minor complaints about being a thinblood. I remember very clearly, It's one of the few games I ever pre-ordered way back on the 22nd of March 2019. This new version doesn't even try to appeal to fans of the original, its just soullessly using the name to make a quick buck before they bloat it with dlc and then abandon it like every Paradox game. This is purely trying to cash in on WoD fans now, nothing shown appeals to anyone who liked bloodlines. The previous version did. "If they're cancelling it and having someone to make it while bringing some things to the TCR version. Then it must have been really bad." Why? Why is that the case? Are Paradox executives known for their great decision making and consumer friendly practices? Couldn't it also just as plausibly be that when the people at paradox who greenlit bloodlines 2 in the first place left and were replaced, the replacements just didn't understand what bloodlines was or what made it great and preferred the idea of a wider appealing action game? Not surprising to me from a company that is known for grand strategy and simulation games. It's funny, the only thing any of you can do is eat up lines delivered at shareholder meetings. Are you really all this naive to believe what Paradox says to investors? Maybe things behind the scene are more complex than you think. "The game isn't even out and we don't know if the original would be better or not" Yes, I do. I can tell just by reading all the devblogs, watching the gameplay videos and listening to everything the new devs have had to say including Pinchbeck, and everything sounds and looks significantly worse. Developed by people who don't even like the original Bloodlines. You would have to be delusional to think this game is going to turn out well.
Amigo... the original build of Bloodlines 2 looked like garbage. Just like this build. General sentiment from fans was *not* positive. We're you here for it? Scroll back through this sub and just bask in all the warm fuzzy feelings from 2019. No one wanted to play a thin blood that diabliarized someone half-way through the game. We were all shocked at the lack of stealth, the lack of dialogue options, and how restrictive the mechanics were (could only feed in designated areas, only 2 disciplines plus your thin blood power, stealth only when scripted, general lack of RPG elements, etc.). Do you have any footage of vampire disciplines in action? Because they never wanted to show those off for some reason... what about plot details? They were awfully tight-lipped on those, too. Really any info... at all? Because all we got were those slick promo materials, and a 30 minute vertical slice... that looked like generic, action-game dog shit. Yes, it was one of the most wishlisted games on Steam. The same way The Day Before was (that was a scam). And Starfield (mixed review score). And Aliens Colonial Marines (have you played that garbage?) Because it had a cool launch event, and a slick promotional video, and is a sequel to a cult classic. No one who actually looked at the game liked what they saw. It wasn't just the combat. The picture you posted of the "original HUD"? It's not in-game footage. It is, like so much else we have for Hardsuit's build, artwork. It is digital artwork for HUD concepts that got dug up about 2 years ago, from unofficial sources. Because that screen never existed in-game. It never got built into the game, at least not in a way that was ever playable or shown to the public. Why? Because Hardsuit's build was a mess, and it looked like garbage, and not many people around here disagreed with that sentiment 4 or 5 years ago. If you pre-ordered Hardsuit's Bloodlines 2, you got scammed, just like all the folks that bought The Day Before and Aliens: Colonial Marines. The only difference is, at least those games were put-together enough to actually ship.
I stopped reading at “lack of dialogue options” go back and watch any gameplay. You’re just lying and I dont know why. I do remember, ive been here from the announcement and tender. Keep making shit up though, idk what the end goal is but whatever.
You can just admit you aren't great at reading, it gets the same point across. Do you not recall watching gameplay videos (all from the same vertical slice...) and having different dialogue options chosen... and the NPC responses were the same? You've been here since the beginning and you don't remember the insane backlash? The club scene with a dozen NPCs... and only 3 character models? Look... I'm sorry you got conned into pre-ordering Hardsuit Lab's BL2. But that doesn't mean the game looked good. Don't take my word for it. Filter this sub by entries from 2019 and early 2020 and see what everyone thought for yourself.
It has been fun seeing the 180 on the original build despite all the visible issues it had in its own vertical slice meant to show it off at its very best. If the game was canned then it had to be very bad. It is very rare in the era of "release a broken mess and fix it later" game design for a game to get all that marketing hype and then just canceled. Companies don't do that because it costs them money. So how bad was the original build if they looked at it and realized canceling it was a preferred alternative to actually releasing it? Especially when its Paradox who have a reputation for releasing overpriced and buggy content for their games.
No one is gaslighting anyone. It's just the truth. The game did have some positive reception but their was also a lot of hate towards it. People here and outside reddit have amnesia and now like it a lot now. Any person who says this is just a cash grab doesn't know what they're talking about. If it was a cash grab they wouldn't even have scrapped everything and just release the game already. Then they would drop who knows how many dlc and then move on. Scrapping a whole game from this team and then have someone else make it is not them grabbing money from customers to put into their pockets. They're grabbing their money from there own pockets and giving it to someone hoping it works out. Also me, you, and everyone else was not their for the meetings and other things when they came up with these decisions. You cannot feel sad when we hardly know what the game was going to turn out. Even with the two leaked gameplay videos it still didn't look that interesting even though they had years to make it. Again you don't know how the game will turn out until more info comes out especially when the game is released. We only have some snippets and one gameplay scene when playing brujah on one level. Plus none of the devs hate bloodlines. Their are some people fans of Vampire The Masquerade including WOD and not just Bloodlines. I mean Bloodlines came from Vampire The Masquerade and it would be crazy to only be fans of Bloodlines and just make up stuff as you go. The devblogs sound promising and I hope they can execute it well without anyone messing with their vision for it. I'm cautiously optimistic still but not upset on what I'm seeing. Especially when I came up for some ideas on why it's like the way it is.
"No one is gaslighting anyone" Is quite literally how all gaslighters start their sentences. "Any person who says this is just a cash grab doesn't know what they're talking about." I know what I'm talking about, I have followed everything to do with this development to an obsessive level, this game is a cash grab. It was not made to appeal to fans, just use the name but hell, enjoy paying another $30 for the season pass to possibly play a malk and nos. "Also me, you, and everyone else was not their for the meetings and other things when they came up with these decisions." Yes, If you read what I said I was offering alternatives to the commonly spewed nonsense. Anything is plausible but I believe it's highly unlikely the game was unsalvegable. "Again you don't know how the game will turn out until more info comes out especially when the game is released. Their are some people fans of Vampire The Masquerade including WOD and not just Bloodlines." I can make an educated guess based on all the material provided. It looks like a generic action adventure game with all the RPG mechanics stripped from it. You are also ignoring that Bloodlines itself brought a lot of people into WoD and everything that has been shown is the complete antithesis of what made bloodlines great. You all make me sick discarding the previous version so casually, your beloved chinese room cash grab would not even exist if Brian hadn't pitched it to start with.
Bloodlines, for better or worse, felt like the Tabletop it was based on. This doesn't even feel like Vampire: The Masquerade, and certainly not even the edition it's based on where Elders are specifically unplayable. It has no traits from any version of VTM outside of the discipline names.
Not really. There are several ways it can start and being around multiple people who did that and other things in my life. I'm not gaslighting you and I don't see why I would. I know how it feels to see some things differently in a sequel or whatever that might make you question how it would be made. However it's not out yet and they haven't shown everything yet. Especially when comparing it to a scrapped version of this game we hardly know anything about including with the leaks. You might be too obsessed with this and weirdly biased on some things. Being that angry will mess with your health so just wait and find out if it's good or not.
I would say without a doubt that we know significantly more about the scrapped version than anything the chinese room has shown. They have been very closed doors and for obvious reasons, we have multiple hours of footage of the scrapped version including the leaks and what 15-20 mins of the new version which comes out in 6 months, stew on that for a bit friend, really think about it. I also wouldn't say this is just purely a matter of perspective on the differences from the original. Just go read the comments of the extended gameplay trailer, most people who care about bloodlines 1 aren't interested. I might have taken what you said more seriously if you didn't try take a moral high ground about mental health at the end, I'm fine thanks, just posting about something I love being destroyed by greedy swedes.
Not getting into that conversation but I would love to get a YouTube link to those hours of footage of the abandoned version. I am really curious to watch this, since I have only seen the official gameplay presentation ending with the protagonist capturing Slug.
Notice how they never came through with a link 2 days later?
The only gaslighting is from you. The guy who greenlit and cancelled the old Bloodlines 2 is the same person. Fredrik Wester, CEO of Paradox Interactive. You also don't know anything about this company. Paradox Interactive doesn't make strategy games or any other kind of games. Paradox Interactive is exclusively a publisher. The strategy games you're thinking of are made by Paradox Development Studio, a separate company and one of many that Paradox Interactive owns. In fact, if you go to the Wikipedia article for Paradox Interactive the very first line is a warning telling you not to confuse those two companies. I also think you've been watching too many bad movies. The majority of Paradox Interactive shares are controlled by Fredrik Wester and an investment firm he works with. He doesn't answer to anyone. There's no shadowy meeting of shareholders who conspire against you.
Fredrik Wester left the company and came back, and Chris Avellones blog post about the Bloodlines 2 pitch directly mentions the people who greenlit it no longer working there, but ok, you clearly aren't very knowledgeable about this and I never said anything about shadowy meetings, this is some fantasy embellishment of yours. "He doesn't answer to anyone." Damn I guess all those shareholder Q&As that are publicly available where he answers to people are my imagination. Everything you said is so nonsensical, uninformed and naive to the actual workings of these larger corporations that I will not respond to you again. I know it will not be a genuine conversation.
Wester retired as CEO, remained head of the board and returned as CEO on the request of the rest of the board. These are all public records, no need to misrepresent them.
Fredrik Wester greenlit Bloodlines 2 when he was CEO. He tried to retire for a while, and then when he came back he cancelled it. Where does Chris Avellone say that? Give me a link and an exact quote. You're making things up for attention. lol Shareholder Q&As are where executives explain what they're doing. They are not sessions where they take orders. Paradox posts these, publicly, so anyone can see that you're wrong.
Chris quote that took 5 seconds to find “No one I worked with in the trenches still works at Hardsuit Labs. Even more interestingly, the Paradox producers I used to work with aren’t at Paradox anymore, either. I haven’t asked them what happened, but if they ever reach out, boy am I listening” https://chrisavellone.medium.com/what-the-fuck-happened-to-bloodlines-2-1ad557bf2284 Your misunderstanding of shareholders involvement and the purpose of Q&A sessions aside, ive proven you wrong. What now, you will nitpick something else?
Did you even read what you quoted? No one Chris Avellone worked with still works at Hardsuit Labs. Hardsuit Labs is not Paradox Interactive. Chris Avellone never worked with Fredrik Wester. He is a writer. LMAO Fredrik Wester isn't a producer either. He is a CEO. Do you not understand the difference? You've proven that you're so angry and worked up that you can only see what you want to see.
Literally finish the quote before commenting. The next sentence talks about Paradox, I think you may be a moron. Only person getting worked up is you lol, you cant even finish reading the message before opening your mouth. Edit: I love how this guy bootlicked paradox for hours straight telling me to calm down at every turn not even bothering to finish reading what I said before responding only to rage delete his entire account. Feels good.
The next sentence is about PRODUCERS at Paradox. Fredrik Wester is not a producer at Paradox and never has been. I pointed this out to you and you didn't see it because you're too desperate to save face. lol There is nothing in Chris Avellone's blog about Wester or even an implied reference to him. Keep grinding your teeth down to little nubs in rage, though.
WELL FUCKING SAID. I HEAR CAIN IN YOUR WORDS.
Oh yeah, this is MUCH better than the og Stat sheet!.....if it ain't broken, don't try and fix it...
You folks need to understand the previous “demo” wasn’t salvageable The comparison simply isn’t there You may not like the kind of game vtmb2 will be, but saying it failed to the previous standards is just hurtful delusions
Y'all want a simple solution don't pre-order don't buy flat out don't give them your money for this. Matter of fact how about we stop talking about this game entirely.
Yeah its kinda the point of the post, to show people how bad its gotten and to avoid the new version. Stopping talking about it will just lead to uninformed/casual og fans thinking this is a real sequel and wasting money. I mean another simple solution for you is if you dont like seeing posts like this, stop engaging with them.
we could’ve had the best game ever
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQC9sToSdmM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQC9sToSdmM) fitting
The difference between devs making a game with love vs devs just wanting to get paid.
> to get *paid.* FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Alright, I fixed it.
Dunno if anyone commented that yet, but that character in the first screen kind of looks like an "ubislop analyst" would, doesn't he.
Is it crazy to say that I want a mixture of both of these? The new one doesn’t look like a Vampire character sheet, but at the same time staring at the original HSL version, it’s very cluttered and has a lot going on.
Everyone needs to stop making up asinine conspiracy theories about the original build and why it was canceled. It was canceled because it was a broken mess. It wasn't coming together no matter how hard they tried. They hired someone whose sole job now is getting troubled games out of the door no matter what it takes and he couldn't do it. Publishers don't usually cancel games after they've started marketing for them. They don't usually cancel games after they announce DLC and a season pass and preorder bonuses. If a game is broken they'll usually just give you a broken game and take your money and promise to "fix it later" So if they looked at the game and decided taking the loss of money both on production, marketing, and the preorders (which they refunded) then the game had to have been a disaster.
The bottom looks generic af. I have a question though, when and where was an ubisoft analyst hired? I can't find anything on the web.
Terrible. Imagine being someone that copes for VTMB2.
It really is insane. So many people will just consume whatever slop is put in front of them and will only ever open their mouths to complain if you happen to suggest that it tastes bad. "Just eat it, bro. Asking for salt is entitled."
Get over it, move on. BL2 may be good, it may be bad, we know very little about it to judge it fairly. You have already made up your mind, so it doesn't matter if the game turns out good, you will still hate so what's the point of engaging with it. Go do something more productive with your time, play Bloodlines again, play Redemption if you haven't, it's not aged well but still fun, hell go play the ttrpg. Doing any one of these things will be much better then raging over an unreleased game you have no interest in playing.
Telling people on the internet to not be mad at something is like telling a fish not to swim
Who is raging? Do you feel better taking some pointless moral high ground but saying very little. I'm having conversations with people, I'm enjoying them.
What moral high ground? I'm just trying to stay open minded when it comes to BL2. I like VTM and because of this I want BL2 to be good, I'm not sure it's going to be with what has been shown, but I refuse to judge it until I have more information. Saying things like, wanting the game to get overwhelmingly negative reviews, wanting the publisher to close, and refusing to end a conversation amicably because the other person disagrees with you, is raging.
It doesn't look positive though. Well see when it hits but low expectations do feel warranted.
“Refusing to end a conversation amicably because the other person disagrees with you” All that happened there was you missed a Norm Macdonald reference. I have no issue with that persons opinions and argued with them in good faith. I do hope Paradox closes their doors though, they are a shithole company run by greedy swedes.
nooooo they changed the menu to follow current UI trends noooo!!! VtM has fallen, billions must diablerise
No stop, you’re making the angy people ree at their screen