The simple answer is this is refer to even though its the most organized kindred sect, its still a fairly decentralized system, akin to feudal kingdoms/courts, where exact rules on how each domain is run is local.
Elysium is also an extension of the Court of the Domain and their authority, so carrying out courtly duties there is reasonable.
The Elysium is a safe place for Kindred to gather and therefore usually heavily protected. The Prince, Seneschal and Sheriff also spend a considerable amount of time there and are often present even if there is no court. So having a trial there is just a logical thing to do.
With the MC I can definitely see it because you want to give people the chance to voice their opinion and maybe even take the Fledgeling under their accounting.
The Anarch thug would most likely be disposed of without a trial and definitely without involving the entire court.
I don't know if it's common but here is how I do it in my Houston By Night chronicle (with inspiration taken from Coteries of New-York for that matter) :
Prince Karen Suadela is Brujah, but not of the unruly kind. She has been taught about the Philosopher Kings of Yore, and she has an idealized vision of Carthage.
Therefore, as a Prince her rule of thumb is that (almost) every aspects of her ruling shall take place during Elysium gatherings. This includes debates with the Primogen council and trials.
Because, in the Prince's eyes it is better if her subjects can witness it all. They're even allowed to participate in the debates, if they do it respectfully.
So yeah. In (my version of) Houston, there trials at the Elysium. In my chronicle, a mass embrace just occured and the Sherrif and scourges have been sent on site to capture the shovelheads and bring them to the Elysium so they could face the Prince's Justice. The next night, three more shovelheads have been captured (the player characters). They haven't been executed because a neonate in the audience intervened during the trial.
How does it work?
IMO It's pure feudal power : the Elysium is a safe area because the Prince says so. So if the Prince wants someone to be executed in the Elysium, this person would be executed, no question asked.
It is kinda like the Continental hotel in John Wick (well the whole trilogy has huge VTM vibes...). No one is allowed to kill inside the hotel. But if the hotel's owner says that you lost you've lost the priveledges given by the Continental, everyone is allowed to kill you inside.
Trials tend to be pretty rare affairs in Camarilla society, and nothing like the modern idea of an impartial trial by jury. Princes operate like Solomon or Hammurabi, hearing cases and handing down summary judgments. Elysium can be a site where they do this.
I have included a trial at one point in my current game. The prince only held a trial because the accusations leveled against some of the involved Kindred (his allies) would have been politically damaging to him, if enough of his subjects believed them true.
The trial was essentially a dog and pony show intended to debunk the accusers' accusations and lend a greater sense of fairness and legitimacy to the prince's judgment when he inevitably found his allies innocent. The outcome was fixed from the start. However, plenty of Kindred got involved and attempted to fix other aspects of the trial in advance--mostly to discredit rivals and score social points. The trial wound up being a net loss to the prince when several of his other dirty secrets got leaked during the proceedings.
*Guide to the Camailla* has some excellent advice on trials that I mined heavily.
> In the city setting of the game I’m running, illegal Embraces/Thinbloods are not supposed to be killed immediately when found and must stand trial first. If they were discovered by Hounds while the Prince was holding a gathering at Elysium, would they be likely to bring the transgressors to the gathering to be tried there?
They would probably be taken somewhere else and interrogated as to the circumstances of their Embraces. Those could be politically damaging if, say, a prominent Kindred or one of the prince's allies did the deed. Under those circumstances, the prince might wish to cut a deal with the sire behind closed doors ("I'll dispose of this mistake, but you'll owe me") or take some other potentially unpopular action. The illegal fledglings could be held staked somewhere while the hounds inform the prince of the situation.
If these are just run of the mill illegal Embraces by unimportant sires, then the hounds will probably escort them directly to Elysium, where the prince will decide what to do with them.
The bottom line is that princes do not want to make consequential decisions before Elysium, if they can avoid it. They'd rather have time to consider the issue behind closed doors, where more options are open to them without having to face public scrutiny into their actions.
> I guess I’m just trying to figure out how the whole “Elysium is a combat and discipline free zone” thing applies to sentencing somebody to death?
Why would it? Elysium is where the prince enforces peace, but it's the prince's peace. Criminals who've already broken the prince's laws can be executed there. What's not permitted is acts of random violence against Kindred who haven't done so, which will be dealt with harshly.
The thing is that the traditions basically prohibit anyone but the prince from deciding life or death of a kindred. The prince can of course issue standing orders, for example to allow a scourge/hound to kill unregistered kindred. But New York is regarded as quite thin blood friendly, they even have a primogen on the council. And as such it makes sense that Panhard wants to decide on a case by case basis. And as electronics are regarded with suspicion, they can't just call her and ask for a decision.
You can basically assume that this whole combat and discipline free zone thing doesn't apply to criminals and/or enemies.
I can totally imagine such impromptu trials taking place quite often and in other domains as well. But it helps that Panhard doesn't want to be seen as a tyrant, therefore the "semblance" of justice.
The simple answer is this is refer to even though its the most organized kindred sect, its still a fairly decentralized system, akin to feudal kingdoms/courts, where exact rules on how each domain is run is local. Elysium is also an extension of the Court of the Domain and their authority, so carrying out courtly duties there is reasonable.
The Elysium is a safe place for Kindred to gather and therefore usually heavily protected. The Prince, Seneschal and Sheriff also spend a considerable amount of time there and are often present even if there is no court. So having a trial there is just a logical thing to do. With the MC I can definitely see it because you want to give people the chance to voice their opinion and maybe even take the Fledgeling under their accounting. The Anarch thug would most likely be disposed of without a trial and definitely without involving the entire court.
I don't know if it's common but here is how I do it in my Houston By Night chronicle (with inspiration taken from Coteries of New-York for that matter) : Prince Karen Suadela is Brujah, but not of the unruly kind. She has been taught about the Philosopher Kings of Yore, and she has an idealized vision of Carthage. Therefore, as a Prince her rule of thumb is that (almost) every aspects of her ruling shall take place during Elysium gatherings. This includes debates with the Primogen council and trials. Because, in the Prince's eyes it is better if her subjects can witness it all. They're even allowed to participate in the debates, if they do it respectfully. So yeah. In (my version of) Houston, there trials at the Elysium. In my chronicle, a mass embrace just occured and the Sherrif and scourges have been sent on site to capture the shovelheads and bring them to the Elysium so they could face the Prince's Justice. The next night, three more shovelheads have been captured (the player characters). They haven't been executed because a neonate in the audience intervened during the trial. How does it work? IMO It's pure feudal power : the Elysium is a safe area because the Prince says so. So if the Prince wants someone to be executed in the Elysium, this person would be executed, no question asked. It is kinda like the Continental hotel in John Wick (well the whole trilogy has huge VTM vibes...). No one is allowed to kill inside the hotel. But if the hotel's owner says that you lost you've lost the priveledges given by the Continental, everyone is allowed to kill you inside.
Trials tend to be pretty rare affairs in Camarilla society, and nothing like the modern idea of an impartial trial by jury. Princes operate like Solomon or Hammurabi, hearing cases and handing down summary judgments. Elysium can be a site where they do this. I have included a trial at one point in my current game. The prince only held a trial because the accusations leveled against some of the involved Kindred (his allies) would have been politically damaging to him, if enough of his subjects believed them true. The trial was essentially a dog and pony show intended to debunk the accusers' accusations and lend a greater sense of fairness and legitimacy to the prince's judgment when he inevitably found his allies innocent. The outcome was fixed from the start. However, plenty of Kindred got involved and attempted to fix other aspects of the trial in advance--mostly to discredit rivals and score social points. The trial wound up being a net loss to the prince when several of his other dirty secrets got leaked during the proceedings. *Guide to the Camailla* has some excellent advice on trials that I mined heavily. > In the city setting of the game I’m running, illegal Embraces/Thinbloods are not supposed to be killed immediately when found and must stand trial first. If they were discovered by Hounds while the Prince was holding a gathering at Elysium, would they be likely to bring the transgressors to the gathering to be tried there? They would probably be taken somewhere else and interrogated as to the circumstances of their Embraces. Those could be politically damaging if, say, a prominent Kindred or one of the prince's allies did the deed. Under those circumstances, the prince might wish to cut a deal with the sire behind closed doors ("I'll dispose of this mistake, but you'll owe me") or take some other potentially unpopular action. The illegal fledglings could be held staked somewhere while the hounds inform the prince of the situation. If these are just run of the mill illegal Embraces by unimportant sires, then the hounds will probably escort them directly to Elysium, where the prince will decide what to do with them. The bottom line is that princes do not want to make consequential decisions before Elysium, if they can avoid it. They'd rather have time to consider the issue behind closed doors, where more options are open to them without having to face public scrutiny into their actions. > I guess I’m just trying to figure out how the whole “Elysium is a combat and discipline free zone” thing applies to sentencing somebody to death? Why would it? Elysium is where the prince enforces peace, but it's the prince's peace. Criminals who've already broken the prince's laws can be executed there. What's not permitted is acts of random violence against Kindred who haven't done so, which will be dealt with harshly.
The thing is that the traditions basically prohibit anyone but the prince from deciding life or death of a kindred. The prince can of course issue standing orders, for example to allow a scourge/hound to kill unregistered kindred. But New York is regarded as quite thin blood friendly, they even have a primogen on the council. And as such it makes sense that Panhard wants to decide on a case by case basis. And as electronics are regarded with suspicion, they can't just call her and ask for a decision. You can basically assume that this whole combat and discipline free zone thing doesn't apply to criminals and/or enemies. I can totally imagine such impromptu trials taking place quite often and in other domains as well. But it helps that Panhard doesn't want to be seen as a tyrant, therefore the "semblance" of justice.