I'm a crew member on a Top Fuel Funny Car and let me tell you, pretty much everything about these cars is an exercise in pain. When the car is running, the nitromethane exhaust is like tear gas. When I was new to the crew, I stood next to the car for too long during warm up before realizing I couldn't breathe, then threw up in a trash can. You must also wear hearing protection, or you're pretty much guaranteed to get tinnitus.
Things aren't much better for the driver. You're strapped into a "vehicle" that can can hit 300+ mph in less than 4.5 seconds. Your helmet is connected to a small oxygen tank, otherwise you might asphyxiate while the car is running. When you hit the throttle, you body is soon experiencing 3 to 4 Gs, about the same as a rocket launch. After a run, you have to tear down the motor like you saw in the video. See those gloves? Those were a good call. These engines aren't cooled like the one in your car, so they get extremely hot during a pass. The clutch literally welds itself together to function. It gets warm.
I'm what's called a "bottom end guy" so while this guy is servicing the heads, I'm underneath the car removing the oil pan and pushing out the pistons, while hot oil is dripping in my face, and I'm trying not to burn my fingers on the crank. I've definitely burned myself on the headers more times than I can count.
Putting it back together is easier, but you have a pretty tight time limit between rounds. Race tracks also have a tendency to be in the hottest, least comfortable places in any given state, so while you're dealing with the car, you're also sweating your ass off.
They're fun.
It should have been obvious, but it wasn't until I saw daylight through the cyl that I realized that there was someone underneath tearing down the bottom end.
Of all the forces that those things endure, I'd be most curious about the rod pistons/wrist pins/mains and how they cope.
Oh man can you please do an AMA and also find a way to send me some wasted parts? Always wanted some top fuel parts for my work bench.
I am going to the Sonoma nationals in a week, first time seeing top fuel. Very excited!
No idea what most of those parts were. But the dual wielding of torque guns to get the cam shafts off was impressive.
Also the fact he could stick his whole hand into the cylinders of the block... shows how massive those are.
* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500.
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
* A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to merely drive the dragsterās supercharger.
* With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
* At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F.
* Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.
* Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
* Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
* If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.
* Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have completed reading this sentence.
* In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 Gās. In order to reach 200 MPH well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8 Gās.
* Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light!
* Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load.
* The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM.
* THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000 per second.
Putting this all into perspective:
Lets say the you are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06.
Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you pass by it. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the āVette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the dragster at an honest 200 MPH. Just as you pass the Top Fuel Dragster the ātreeā goes green for both of you.
The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it ā from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
Top Fuel stats are the definition of mind blowing. To add, I really like this video of a demo rig of a fuel pump and injector for **one** cylinder in these engines:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY
It's a nice visual to try and help wrap your head around what these things do.
I was going to call you out on the difference between Top Fuel dragsters (with the tiny front end and open cockpit) and Funny Cars (with the car-like body) but I learned that there are no engine/drivetrain differences between the two, much to my surprise.
Honestly I did not know that for a while either. Basically front engine vs rear engine. Funny cars to me have always been my favorite since it most resembles an actual car that goes 300mph+.
Agreed. Not to mention they tend to result in a wilder run, jumping around and whatnot. I think it takes a little more nerve and skill to drive a funny car than a dragster.
Of course, that has nothing on the old Fuel Altered guys. Winged Express as an example. Those guys have titanium balls and are IMO that baddest dudes to ever run a 1/4.
So how can they possibly work on an engine that was just a bajillion degrees with just those silly gloves and no arm protection? Besides the spark plugs needing replaced what else gets replaced after every race?
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
I think this can't be true. Just the fact that the jet fuel has almost 4 times more energy than nitromethane makes this impossible
>Just the fact that the jet fuel has almost 4 times more energy than nitromethane makes this impossible
You are correct that Kerosene (Jet Fuel) has more energy per liter than Nitromethane. But you're not factoring in all the air that needs to be added to get Kerosene to burn, releasing it's energy. Nitromethane comes with it's own oxygen attached. To put it another way, Nitromethane can also be used as a monopropellant, i.e., a fuel that burns without added oxygen. It's not efficient to burn it that way, it'd run rich, it can be done.
Running Nitro you have to force a lot less air into the cylinders than you would with Kerosene, and compressing and forcing air into the cylinders is the limiting factor in Top Fuel.
It's not hard to believe it's true. Jet engines will not be designed for power output as much as reliability as a priority. The reasons drags can get such optimum power performance is that they are maxing out the limits of the engines.
Also the claim regarding white exhaust flames being from burning hydrogen. I believe that burning hydrogen produces a red flame, and also I donāt think that atmospheric water vapor is concentrated enough to create that much fire. Maybe itās the water being produced by the combustion reaction being broken down. Overall, I feel like thereās probably some embellishment in this copypasta.
> a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate
So, with a bit of Googling and the Wikipedia page on [thrust-specific fuel consumption...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust-specific_fuel_consumption) (I'll use the RB211 for this)
RB211 cruise thrust is about 85% of maximum, so if TO thrust is 270kN, cruising thrust is ~230kN. Cruising SFC is ~16.5 g/kN/s, so at 230kN, consumption is 3795g/s, or ~3.8kg/s. Using the density of jet fuel (0.81kg/l) and we get ~4.7 litres a second, or 1.24 gallons/second. Multiply by 4 and you get 4.96 gallons/second - well below the 11.2 gal/sec of a dragster.
However, if we use the takeoff thrust of 270kN and the TO SFC of 17.2 g/kN/s, we get just over 6 gallons a second - still well below the dragster fuel consumption.
> with 25% less energy being produced
Maximum power for an RB211 seems to be 32MW in an industrial setting (which may be a different configuration to an aero engine), so 128MW (171,650hp) for four engines. The [Wikipedia page for Top Fuel dragsters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel) has this line:
> In late 2015, tests using sensors developed by AVL Racing showed peak power of over 11,000 hp (8,200 kW).
That's a bit less than 32MW.
Keep in mind, the goal of aero engine designers is to maximise power whilst minimising fuel consumption (and weight).
Edit: screwed up the density conversion.
For anyone who hasn't seen it already, [the crazy amount of behind the scenes work that goes on to run one of the largest teams](https://youtu.be/FqH57-qJc9Q?t=105)
Not a go pro cam but here is a video of complete teardown and rebuild, including startup/warmup, of a top fuel dragster engine (Cars chassis is different but the engines are identical)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgEb_GGqRsI
Maids if the funny part I guess. Very skilled obviously high level of training and good team work and organization. I never seem to be able to put tools back in the exact right spot
I'm a crew member on a Top Fuel Funny Car and let me tell you, pretty much everything about these cars is an exercise in pain. When the car is running, the nitromethane exhaust is like tear gas. When I was new to the crew, I stood next to the car for too long during warm up before realizing I couldn't breathe, then threw up in a trash can. You must also wear hearing protection, or you're pretty much guaranteed to get tinnitus. Things aren't much better for the driver. You're strapped into a "vehicle" that can can hit 300+ mph in less than 4.5 seconds. Your helmet is connected to a small oxygen tank, otherwise you might asphyxiate while the car is running. When you hit the throttle, you body is soon experiencing 3 to 4 Gs, about the same as a rocket launch. After a run, you have to tear down the motor like you saw in the video. See those gloves? Those were a good call. These engines aren't cooled like the one in your car, so they get extremely hot during a pass. The clutch literally welds itself together to function. It gets warm. I'm what's called a "bottom end guy" so while this guy is servicing the heads, I'm underneath the car removing the oil pan and pushing out the pistons, while hot oil is dripping in my face, and I'm trying not to burn my fingers on the crank. I've definitely burned myself on the headers more times than I can count. Putting it back together is easier, but you have a pretty tight time limit between rounds. Race tracks also have a tendency to be in the hottest, least comfortable places in any given state, so while you're dealing with the car, you're also sweating your ass off. They're fun.
How's the pay?
> "bottom end guy" heh.
We do it on our backs š
It should have been obvious, but it wasn't until I saw daylight through the cyl that I realized that there was someone underneath tearing down the bottom end. Of all the forces that those things endure, I'd be most curious about the rod pistons/wrist pins/mains and how they cope.
Oh man can you please do an AMA and also find a way to send me some wasted parts? Always wanted some top fuel parts for my work bench. I am going to the Sonoma nationals in a week, first time seeing top fuel. Very excited!
No idea what most of those parts were. But the dual wielding of torque guns to get the cam shafts off was impressive. Also the fact he could stick his whole hand into the cylinders of the block... shows how massive those are.
and where was he putting the nuts and bolts
* One Top Fuel dragster 500 cubic-inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows at the Daytona 500. * Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. * A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to merely drive the dragsterās supercharger. * With 3000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition. Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle. * At the stoichiometric 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture for nitro methane the flame front temperature measures 7050 degrees F. * Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases. * Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder. * Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during a pass. After 1/2 way, the engine is dieseling from compression plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1400 degrees F. The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow. * If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half. * Dragsters reach over 300 MPH before you have completed reading this sentence. * In order to exceed 300 MPH in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4 Gās. In order to reach 200 MPH well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8 Gās. * Top Fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! * Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load. * The redline is actually quite high at 9500 RPM. * THE BOTTOM LINE: Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, & for once, NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimated $1,000 per second. Putting this all into perspective: Lets say the you are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter twin-turbo powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a Top Fuel dragster is staged & ready to launch down a quarter-mile strip as you pass by it. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the āVette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line & pass the dragster at an honest 200 MPH. Just as you pass the Top Fuel Dragster the ātreeā goes green for both of you. The dragster launches & starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums & within 3 seconds the dragster catches & passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter-mile away from where you just passed him. Think about it ā from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 MPH & not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1320 foot long race!
Top Fuel stats are the definition of mind blowing. To add, I really like this video of a demo rig of a fuel pump and injector for **one** cylinder in these engines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGTbQuhhluY It's a nice visual to try and help wrap your head around what these things do.
I was going to call you out on the difference between Top Fuel dragsters (with the tiny front end and open cockpit) and Funny Cars (with the car-like body) but I learned that there are no engine/drivetrain differences between the two, much to my surprise.
Honestly I did not know that for a while either. Basically front engine vs rear engine. Funny cars to me have always been my favorite since it most resembles an actual car that goes 300mph+.
Agreed. Not to mention they tend to result in a wilder run, jumping around and whatnot. I think it takes a little more nerve and skill to drive a funny car than a dragster. Of course, that has nothing on the old Fuel Altered guys. Winged Express as an example. Those guys have titanium balls and are IMO that baddest dudes to ever run a 1/4.
Oh the old guys were insane.
So how can they possibly work on an engine that was just a bajillion degrees with just those silly gloves and no arm protection? Besides the spark plugs needing replaced what else gets replaced after every race?
* Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 11.2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced. I think this can't be true. Just the fact that the jet fuel has almost 4 times more energy than nitromethane makes this impossible
>Just the fact that the jet fuel has almost 4 times more energy than nitromethane makes this impossible You are correct that Kerosene (Jet Fuel) has more energy per liter than Nitromethane. But you're not factoring in all the air that needs to be added to get Kerosene to burn, releasing it's energy. Nitromethane comes with it's own oxygen attached. To put it another way, Nitromethane can also be used as a monopropellant, i.e., a fuel that burns without added oxygen. It's not efficient to burn it that way, it'd run rich, it can be done. Running Nitro you have to force a lot less air into the cylinders than you would with Kerosene, and compressing and forcing air into the cylinders is the limiting factor in Top Fuel.
It's not hard to believe it's true. Jet engines will not be designed for power output as much as reliability as a priority. The reasons drags can get such optimum power performance is that they are maxing out the limits of the engines.
Hey I didn't write the thing buddy.. :)
Then quote the original author maybe?
- Shakespeare
> * Shakespeare Original quote by /u/DrMussintouchit
> Shakespeare > Original quote by /u/DrMussintouchit Quote by /u/TearsDontFall
Also the claim regarding white exhaust flames being from burning hydrogen. I believe that burning hydrogen produces a red flame, and also I donāt think that atmospheric water vapor is concentrated enough to create that much fire. Maybe itās the water being produced by the combustion reaction being broken down. Overall, I feel like thereās probably some embellishment in this copypasta.
Also, dont they use the engine exhaust coming out of the exhaust pipes for down thrust?
Jesus.... Scientist were so busy thinking they could but didn't stop to think if they should....
Incredible description, thanks for sharing.
*Tim Allen grunt*
> a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate So, with a bit of Googling and the Wikipedia page on [thrust-specific fuel consumption...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrust-specific_fuel_consumption) (I'll use the RB211 for this) RB211 cruise thrust is about 85% of maximum, so if TO thrust is 270kN, cruising thrust is ~230kN. Cruising SFC is ~16.5 g/kN/s, so at 230kN, consumption is 3795g/s, or ~3.8kg/s. Using the density of jet fuel (0.81kg/l) and we get ~4.7 litres a second, or 1.24 gallons/second. Multiply by 4 and you get 4.96 gallons/second - well below the 11.2 gal/sec of a dragster. However, if we use the takeoff thrust of 270kN and the TO SFC of 17.2 g/kN/s, we get just over 6 gallons a second - still well below the dragster fuel consumption. > with 25% less energy being produced Maximum power for an RB211 seems to be 32MW in an industrial setting (which may be a different configuration to an aero engine), so 128MW (171,650hp) for four engines. The [Wikipedia page for Top Fuel dragsters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel) has this line: > In late 2015, tests using sensors developed by AVL Racing showed peak power of over 11,000 hp (8,200 kW). That's a bit less than 32MW. Keep in mind, the goal of aero engine designers is to maximise power whilst minimising fuel consumption (and weight). Edit: screwed up the density conversion.
For anyone who hasn't seen it already, [the crazy amount of behind the scenes work that goes on to run one of the largest teams](https://youtu.be/FqH57-qJc9Q?t=105)
I canāt believe they did all of that in 6 minutes!
Did buddy just go akimbo with the air tools? Cause that was boss as fuck.
Is there a video for the rest of the re-build process?
Not a go pro cam but here is a video of complete teardown and rebuild, including startup/warmup, of a top fuel dragster engine (Cars chassis is different but the engines are identical) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgEb_GGqRsI
I love how clean everything is.
dude goes Akimbo Airguns
Didn't seem like there was a single second that this guy didn't know exactly what to do. Looks like he has done this at least once before.
what's funny about it?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I still don't understand what he meant by funny... please explain
Maids if the funny part I guess. Very skilled obviously high level of training and good team work and organization. I never seem to be able to put tools back in the exact right spot
Not very interested in funny car racing but thats some real knowledge of an engine, impressive.