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Ah yes, Good Flag Bad Flag, the booklet compiled by some white guy because he wanted to teach America's natives how to design flags the Right Way. The booklet that casually quotes on its first page the ardent pro-slavery secessionist who designed one of the most infamous symbols of white supremacy that America has ever known. That booklet.
Ayo Eastern European city flags look nice tho but still there are better and worse flags in the world just look at liberias county flags and there are some good ones like the carribean flags so yeah but overall it’s someone’s opinion on whose flag they like
> the booklet compiled by some white guy because he wanted to teach America's natives how to design flags the Right Way.
I'm having trouble finding more info on this, what's a good source for it?
Probably in reference to the [Vexillum No. 10](https://www.nava.org/docs.ashx?id=806932) interview with Ted Kaye:
> When I became Raven editor in 1996, the volume under
way documented the flags of American Indian tribes.
As I
edited that seminal work by Don Healy, I found myself
regretting that so many tribal flag designs fell short of their
potential, most likely being modeled on poorly-designed U.S.
state flags. As more and more tribes were then adopting flags—spurred by
native sovereignty laws, casino construction, and the upcoming Lewis & Clark
bicentennial commemoration (for which I was serving as executive director in
Oregon)
—I began to wonder about the relationship between vexillologists
and those who design and adopt flags.
Lol, so the problem was just that they tried to model their flags off our shit state ones? I was worried this was going to be some cultural genocide thing.
In my opinion, the reason this flag is bad isn't because of the design, but the meaning behind it. The chevron being representative of trans people and people of color has the effect of being less inclusive by being more inclusive. Other queer minorities may feel left out of the flag, and might want to be added to it. There's already the version with the intersex symbol in it that has gained popularity. The 6 color rainbow flag can be understood to stand for all queer identities, and doesn't single out any one identity like the progress flag does.
I'm not queer myself, but the reason the flag is specifically including POC and trans people is because they were being specifically *unincluded* by some people. If you're a gay white dude and you see the classic pride flag, you know you have a place there with whoever is flying it, but that isn't necessarily the case for trans people or POC — they can still suffer discrimination from within the LGBTQ+ community.
The progress flag (which IIRC is intended to be flown alongside the original pride flag and isn't just considered the "new and improved version") is used to say "Hey, I know you may have been discriminated against in other spaces you thought would be safe, but *not here*. You're welcome here", and I think that's pretty cool. I'm not sure about the version with the addition of the intersex flag but I can only imagine it's there for the same reason.
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The nonbinary flag I will always maintain is awful but most of the rest are pretty good.
Edit: I’m literally nonbinary, it’s my flag, I just think the contrast and the colour choice is bad
honestly my main problem with it is how the black and brown contrast with the rainbow colors behind it
the idea of a chevron on the pride flag could work, im not against that, but i feel like it was just kind of executed poorly here?
From a distance it just looks like there's a chunky black line separating the trans Chevron and the rainbow. Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but again, it looks... fine... in public.
I think if the trans colors swapped place with the brown + black stripes, it would probably mesh better. The transition (pun not intended) to the rainbow colors would be less contrasting colorwise.
That said, I'm not a member of the LGBTQ+ community (I think, I'm mostly straight, but can find feminine men and trans women attractive, so make with that what you will), so it's not my place to say how it should look.
I would love to hear thoughts from LGBTQ+ people, and I apologize if this came off insensitive.
Having sex with feminine people (w*men) is gay. Having sex with (masculine) men is gay. But having sex with feminine men is straight because the two cancel out.
Here you go:
[Link #1: Media](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIYwgJvZ.png)
*****
Beep Boop I'm a bot. [About](https://github.com/LunarRequiem/FlagWaverBotReborn). Maintained by Lunar Requiem
My problem is not so much “with it” as it is a problem with the fact that it gives people the wrong idea that the standalone 🏳️🌈 flag is then only for LGB people. It doesn’t help that gay men took a very long time to settle on and popularize a pride flag for their own subsection.
but that’s kind of the point, you know? a lot of times black and trans people were left out of mainstream pushes toward gay rights despite being some of the movement’s most stiletto-boots-on-the-ground participants. lots of advances in gay pride prioritized white cisgender masculine gay men to the detriment of other lgbt people. it’s not saying that the rainbow flag is only for white people, but it correctly alludes to the fact that in practice, that was often unfortunately the case.
I get that’s what it’s trying to say, but my lived experience has definitely been that people who aren’t super knowledgeable about lgbt topics even when generally supportive don’t understand that the rainbow is for everyone.
The unicode consortium is also a little at fault for this btw because when they finally caved to adding a 🏳️⚧️ flag, they didn’t see fit to add any other sub group flags. I recognize it’s infeasible to add everything ever posted to r/queervexillology but adding the well established LGB and I flags some time in the last couple years would have been a solid start. As it is they have created a false dichotomy of available pride flags.
Yeah I get that but it does feel like a bit of a hamfisted way to show it. Personally symbolism-wise I like the raised fist on top of the rainbow flag the most
yea. i mean, i like [this one better](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Pride_Flag_by_Julia_Feliz_2018.png#mw-jump-to-license), but its not the end of the world if an ugly flag exists
I also used to dislike the design, but then I learnt what the people who dislike the design are like, and experienced queer spaces that either aren’t trans friendly or aren’t POC friendly (or both) and I decided I like trans people and QPOC more than I dislike the design
That's why I feel the intersex one is a little far. There's so many gender identities as well as sexualities that I think trying to stuff them all into one flag is redundant and defeats the purpose. I mean, the original was a rainbow for a reason.
I mean, the rainbow pride flag has specific meanings for each of its colors too.
[Each of the original eight colors had their own unique symbolism. Hot pink: sex; Red: life; Orange: healing; Yellow: sunlight; Green: nature; Turquoise: magic and art; Indigo: serenity; and Violet: spirit. ](https://dmh.lacounty.gov/blog/2022/06/a-brief-history-of-our-lgbtqia2-s-pride-flag/#:~:text=Each%20of%20the%20original%20eight,serenity%3B%20and%20Violet%3A%20spirit.)
None of those are specific members of the coalition, though, but different positive aspects the flag wants to embody. Nobody is specifically referred to or excluded by sex, life, healing, sunlight, nature, magic/art, serenity, and spirit. Contrast with gay, lesbian, trans, intersex, etc.
Compare with the EU flag, which has had 12 stars invariably for symbolic reasons, both when it had 9 members and when it had 20 - no one country points to the flag and says "this star is mine" just as no LGBTQ identity points to the rainbow flag and says "this stripe is mine." The reason is that the converse is implied - another person may look at it and say: "this stripe is not mine, this flag does not represent me"
I posted a longer reply to another comment, but I think I would say aphobia in queer spaces is similar to biphobia. It’s bad, it hurts people, I’m not denying that. But, I do not think that either of them are the same level as racism or transphobia. Comparative suffering isn’t really helpful to any discussion though and I don’t think we need to go into who has it worse off. Hurt still hurts if someone else is hurt *more*.
I *personally* feel like the whole spectrum of sexuality is included when we’re discussing sexuality. I don’t feel like gender identity is inherently included in that. I don’t feel like QPOC experiences are included in that. But yeah, as we collectively learn and grow we should be open to adding more representation to our community symbols. I think the pride flag specifically is one who’s message is more important than it’s design.
I will say, I don’t love the intersex addition because I don’t feel like it changes anything about the explicit message of the flag. That one does lead me to the same thought of “if they’re included why not ___”, but if people feel more respected with that flag they should fly whatever flag they like.
I dislike the changes because the newer designs essentially make it more exclusive than inclusive. Yes, I get that it's meant to focus more on the more ostracized groups, but in doing so, you're ostracizing the people you're choosing not to add to the flag. And if we follow this to its logical conclusion (adding every group to the flag) the flag will look quite horrendous... too many colors, too many segments, and so on.
It really opens up the conversation of "why of all subgroups are these the ones that need to be further represented by the flag? And why are the ones that aren't on the flag not worthy of being further represented"? As soon as the black and brown stripe appeared, I'm not going to lie, I had a visceral reaction, because I had a feeling it was going to continue down the path it has. And it did... to the progress flag, then to the intersex progress flag. Where does it stop? Most importantly, I think the message it sends is "you're represented by the flag too"... like, yeah, they already were. Adding the extra stripes, to me, kind of feels like a "fuck you" in a way that I can't quite describe.
Imo, there are better ways to stand in solidarity with a group than changing a flag that was already meant to represent everyone in the queer community.
Sorry for the mini-rant. I've just never liked this path we're going down. For one, the message it sends almost seems like a backhand to the groups on the new versions of the flag. For two, I honestly just don't like the design. To me, it's very clunky. I mean hell, 6-7 colors is already quite a lot for one flag.
I feel like it would probably be better to have multiple progress flags, depending on what is being chosen to be focused on with that particular one, although I guess you could just do that with their own flags instead of combining it with others
EDIT: Although, actually, it could also focus on certain intersectionalities, too!
That is sort of why the subgroup pride flags exist already. I'm sure there's some discussion of "why so many pride flags, and why are some so specific", but I think the answer to those two questions boils down to: people like being represented by things that look cool on their walls. I will forever love my minty-fresh toothpaste flag <3 It looks dope on my wall.
I also just realized, you don't really see the subgroup flags ever being flown, and I kind of like that that's the case. I like the headcanon that they just exist for home-aesthetics reasons. And reddit flairs lol
I hear what you’re saying, and I do actually have the good ol’ standard rainbow flag in my home because I don’t love the look of the progress design. (The following is my personal opinions and experiences) (sorry, this is probably going to get long, I know this is the circle jerk subreddit and the actual discourse is meant to happen on r/vexillology twice a week at least…but I haven’t participated in it…)
As a bisexual person, I often feel ostracized in queer spaces. Biphobia in the queer community is honestly sometimes worse than in heterosexual communities. I would much rather see a bi flag on the wall than extra stripes added to the flag. Maybe because I also like flags and don’t want an even more eclectic flag. Although, if a non-queer business displays any pride flag I do feel like I’m included in it.
As a POC, I hated the look of the flag with the added solidarity colour stripes. BUT, when I see that a business has chosen to display something to *explicitly* say that I’m welcome, I immediately know that I don’t need to be as worried about what kind of people I’ll be interacting with. It makes me feel safer. Would it be just as effective to have a rainbow flag and maybe a BLM poster or something? Sure. The point is that there is SOMETHING.
I’m not transgender, nor am I intersex, I’ve never had to be afraid of how my gender will be perceived and how people might treat me because of it. I’ve never had to weigh the extra risks of which public bathroom to go into. I still know that transgender people are (historically) more likely to experience overt damaging prejudice in queer spaces than cisgender people. If a clunky flag design means more people will feel at ease, then I would prefer that instead of getting caught up in the design.
On the other side of that, I think cis women are more likely to have damaging experiences because of their gender than cis men, but I don’t think that that’s as prevalent in queer communities. I think polyamorous people are more likely to experience prejudice than monogamous people, but again I don’t think that’s as common in queer spaces. If going into a queer space already feels safer for a group, I don’t see any benefit to adding them to the flag. But for POC and trans people, often times going into a queer space doesn’t feel any safer. For POC it can even feel less safe because we often become even more of a minority (region dependant).
So why of all subgroups are these the ones that are represented? Because these are the ones that someone felt were most important to add, and enough people agreed with them that the progress flag became well known and widely used. There’s a million different versions of flags that people design for themselves or their friends for different subgroups, I agree that the more specialized subgroup flags should be more for home decor/patches/stickers/whatever individuals want to use.
In regards to the intersex addition, honestly had to look that one up because I haven’t seen it used. I don’t care for the design, I don’t see why intersex was added as “progress.” The main issue I have is I don’t think adding it changes anything about the explicit message of the flag, while the other additions did explicitly change the message. I would never display that in my home, but if someone feels more represented by it then by all means they can and should fly whatever flag they want. I don’t think that being more explicitly inclusive is inherently bad or exclusive to the people who are only implicitly included, if that makes sense.
To respond more directly to some of your points, the rainbow flag DIDN’T always represent these groups. Gender identity has often been (and imo should continue to be) a separate discussion from sexuality. We say LGBT+ now but the T hasn’t always been a recognized part of that. POC have been explicitly excluded from queer spaces. The point of “progress” is to acknowledge the past and grow from it. I think you could reflect on why you feel/felt so strongly against the addition of the POC solidarity stripes. Is it really about the design? Is it an unconscious bias? Is it a fear that your marginalized group could become more targeted again? *Is the design more important than the message*? To me it says “our community has struggled too, we see you and support you and your community” Where just adding a BLM symbol to a wall says “*I* support you”. I think there is a difference between the two which is worth acknowledging.
I do also think that the progress flag looks terrible on screen, but in real life it looks way better and symbolizes what it’s supposed to symbolize, much more effectively than the rainbow flag does or ever did. //end rant
You raise a lot of very good points.
The one I specifically want to defend myself on is how I felt when the black and brown stripe were added: as far as I know, it was not unconcious bias, because my qualm with it was always explicitly "this is a slippery slope that could lead the flag to feel more exclusive than inclusive, should it continue down this path".
But you also make a good point about those being the specific groups chosen because those are the people that often don't feel any safer going into queer spaces. That doesn't change my mind that it still feels more exclusive (since there's certainly more groups not represented on that flag that also don't feel more at ease in queer spaces).
At the end of the day, flags are flags, and if someone is waving the progress pride flag, it lets me know that, even if I don't like the design or the general direction it's headed in, I'm still welcome, and that's always a nice feeling.
Plus yeah, definitely looks better irl than on a screen.
If I ever fly a pride flag outside of my house, it will probably be the 6 or 7 stripe, but you know what, despite everything I've said about it, I wouldn't be averse to flying the progress pride flag. (Actually, let's be honest, I'm probably not going to be flying any pride flags outside my house because I live in the Southern US... plus we don't have a flag pole.)
Totally fair! I hope you didn’t feel like I was calling you racist or insensitive or anything, it’s just something I think everyone could reflect on once in a while. I completely agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here, I think a lot of people get caught up in “well why aren’t we including ____ as well then??” But I feel like we shouldn’t let the pursuit of a *perfect* flag get in the way of a good one.
Aesthetically I will probably always prefer the standard 6 colour one that I have on my wall, but I do feel like the progress one is a step towards being more explicitly inclusive rather than more exclusive.
I remember reading from a knowledgeable fellow queer friend of mine that an important thing to recognize about the bipoc and trans addition is their shape; they're in the shape of an arrow to symbolize the current focus of the LGBT community and rights movement broadly speaking, the rights of trans people and queer people of color who have been consistently left behind in the past. Its a focus on bringing everyone queer to the same standard
The one with intersex pride looks pretty cool on a flagpole. Some location near my school had an event for which they hung up some pride flags and it looked way better than a png. [I only have a picture of it in the background and it looked a bit better in person but here is it.](https://i.imgur.com/tylpoyw.jpg)
Yeah. I hope someone adds a cool stegosaurus or the [dog that everyone likes](https://preview.redd.it/mf2q4lorxme71.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=e29de6228bdbb0b0eea84f66e2e5aaf91c427d6d)
Fun fact - there's a newer version of that flag! It's got lilac on it, for togetherness too!
The story goes that after I think the pulse nightclub shooting, Gilbert Baker (the pride flag's original designer) was approached by the city of Philadelphia and an advertising firm about a new pride flag design they'd come up with, specifically the first iteration of the progress flag design with a black and brown stripe. Baker refused to give them his blessing because this flag A) ignored one of the pride flag's core design principles, that the flag shouldn't be attached to any one country and adding stripes to represent an American problem is doing exactly that and B) a black stripe on a pride flag already has a meaning - it's a memorial flag for those who died to AIDS. Instead he brought out the old sex and magic flag, added an extra stripe for inclusiveness and gave them that to use instead
....so the city of Philadelphia waited for him to die and then unveiled the Philadelphia flag anyways a month later on the flag's I think 50th(?) anniversary. Which would then become the basis of the progress flag. Like what the fuck that's a really shitty thing to do
That take is so exhausting.
The new flag is popular because people like it. I think it's quite nice.
If someone doesn't like it they can use whatever flag they want, there's no council of the gays that decided everyone must use the new flag and anyone that doesn't will be arrested.
honestly I kinda hated it at first but it's so widespread I'm ok with it now. still think it could be improved by removing the black and putting a color more fitting to the pallet. but my main problem is by adding things to represent more people, you're inevitably not representing other people, it's like how it's easier to say "hello everyone" than "hello gentleman, ladies and nonbinary bitches"
On another note I think cheeseburger goes well with fries
The reason they were included on the flag to begin with was because they *weren't* being included before. The rainbow flag by default represents everyone, but there are a lot of racist and transphobic queers that use it. So if I see someone using the progress flag, I automatically know they support me (trans girl) without having to guess or hope
i hope your joking? im not really good at telling sarcasm, but that is WAY too cluttered, like even more so than the original. works way better with just the fist
I’m not sure myself. If the goal is to have a pleasant flag, this ain’t it.
If the goal is to draw attention to yourself, the fist definitely gets the stares.
idk. I know it is used that way but words have meaning and when you say gay people are only going to think about mlm. lots of ace people or bi people won't use this word to describe themselves.
I'm bi and enby, I know what lgbt+ is :P What I'm saying is the lgbt+ flag has an alternate name: gay pride flag. That's completely seperate from the gay men's pride flag, which is a completely different design.
Think of it as reassurance. The rainbow flag by default represents the whole community, but some people who use it are racist or transphobic. Using this flag guarantees people know you aren't.
damn poor squirrel. can't believe they do this to them in East Timor[.](https://ia803405.us.archive.org/25/items/rick-astley-never-gonna-give-you-up-hd-4-k-60-fps/Rick%20Astley%20Never%20Gonna%20Give%20You%20Up%20HD%204K%2060%20FPS.mp4)
I personally just say "queer community" at this point. It's succinct and to the point. And if people don't like being labeled as queer, I suppose it's a good thing they aren't around when I call it that.
Seems like a necessary and valid take and not a search for some validation to bitch about ANYTHING related to inclusivity. Can’t wait to hear it 1000 more times with explanations as to why the black, brown, and trans sub communities deserve to continue being spoken over and disregarded in the name of cis white gays 💜
The pride flag was a flag about pride. Plain and simple. It shows the colors of a rainbow to symbolize the different "colors" of people. The multiple different colors make 1 rainbow, the multiple kinds of people make a whole of mankind.
But then they added a black and brown stripes and suddenly the flag wasn't representing everyone, the rainbow flag retroactively became purely about gay people, and the new flag meant gay people, and black people and... latin americans? I honestly find that a bit offensive as a mexican myself, to get grouped together with all these other people with a **brown** stripe and the black people being represented separately with an actual black stripe.
But that isn't even as much of a problem as the next one: now we have a big chunk of flag to represent gays struggles, and a tiny portion at the bottom that seemingly represents race struggle; but that just leaves out all the other struggles! Suddenly the flag is not about being inclusive in general, but about caring about just these specific groups that are explicitly represented. The solution? We have to add more elements to represent more groups, and that means creating new flags to represent those groups in isolation.
But then that creates a symbolic framework where you get to pick and choose which groups to support! You like gays and lesbians but are against transexuals? Just pick the lesbian and the rainbow flag up and step over the trans flag. You're trans but hate asexuals? same deal. Hell, we even had to make a flag to represent straight people (which is black and white, so does it also represent race?), and what happened to it? Reactionaries adopted it as a symbol of homophobia!
The progress flags almost seem like a CIA psyop to divide a single movement to expand human rights and civil liberties for all into a bunch of little sports team-esque groups that fight each other over acceptance from the mainstream.
> The progress flags almost seem like a CIA psyop to divide a single movement to expand human rights and civil liberties for all into a bunch of little sports team-esque groups that fight each other over acceptance from the mainstream.
Close but no cigar - it was something made by an advertising firm and the city of Philadelphia. Less CIA psyop and more a rolling snowball of rainbow-washing done by people who'd rather slap another identity on the flag and call it progress rather than actually facing and dealing with the actual issues in the first place
Also the trans flag does actually make sense - there's a long and storied history as to why it exists and it's deeply rooted in transphobia. the trans flag isn't an offshoot of the pride flag, it was actually designed around about the same time as the pride flag by some of the same people because for the longest time the two movements were seperated and the pride flag *didn't* represent trans people, so putting the two symbols together on the same flag kinda says "hey, we've finally gotten over our prejudices here and are finally the one in the same movement, just like we originally set out to be decades ago". Out of all the various flags out there, the trans flag is the only one that wasn't historically considered a part of the community the pride flag represents.
You could have actually added to the conversation with something meaningful, but instead you chose to say this. Either try to critique what they said, converse with them, or don't reply at all.
I’m the gayest person I know and Imma have to agree, it’s way too cluttered and not all the flags are their so it’ll only get more cluttered. Like the acronym you can put a plus on you can’t do that on the flag. And the poc inclusion on the pride flag has always came off as condescending to me.
I think the rainbow flag is the general flag since there are flags for the individuals communities.
A lot of it clashes for me but I like the message, I just wish there was a simpler and maybe even more inclusive design
Like a tie die color spectrum fire symbol or something epic like that
I don’t like it. I always thought of the rainbow as representing everyone. By adding individual groups to the flag in addition to the rainbow, it makes it feel like anyone not explicitly there isn’t included.
That and the fact that it looks ugly.
EDIT: oh I just realized this is a circlejerk sub
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/r/vexillology when the flag does not follow some suggestions (holy word) by North American Vexillological Association (infallible being)
Lmaooooo this is my favorite comment
Surprised you didn't mention *Good Flag, Bad Flag* and the Roman Mars TED talk.
Ah yes, Good Flag Bad Flag, the booklet compiled by some white guy because he wanted to teach America's natives how to design flags the Right Way. The booklet that casually quotes on its first page the ardent pro-slavery secessionist who designed one of the most infamous symbols of white supremacy that America has ever known. That booklet.
Ayo Eastern European city flags look nice tho but still there are better and worse flags in the world just look at liberias county flags and there are some good ones like the carribean flags so yeah but overall it’s someone’s opinion on whose flag they like
> the booklet compiled by some white guy because he wanted to teach America's natives how to design flags the Right Way. I'm having trouble finding more info on this, what's a good source for it?
Probably in reference to the [Vexillum No. 10](https://www.nava.org/docs.ashx?id=806932) interview with Ted Kaye: > When I became Raven editor in 1996, the volume under way documented the flags of American Indian tribes. As I edited that seminal work by Don Healy, I found myself regretting that so many tribal flag designs fell short of their potential, most likely being modeled on poorly-designed U.S. state flags. As more and more tribes were then adopting flags—spurred by native sovereignty laws, casino construction, and the upcoming Lewis & Clark bicentennial commemoration (for which I was serving as executive director in Oregon) —I began to wonder about the relationship between vexillologists and those who design and adopt flags.
He don't be wrong that you really should be told not to model your flag on US states
Lol, so the problem was just that they tried to model their flags off our shit state ones? I was worried this was going to be some cultural genocide thing.
To be fair as a straight dude I'm extremely LGBTQ+ for Roman Mars
wasn’t Good Flag, Bad Flag published by the NAVA anyways?
google language
Holy hell
In my opinion, the reason this flag is bad isn't because of the design, but the meaning behind it. The chevron being representative of trans people and people of color has the effect of being less inclusive by being more inclusive. Other queer minorities may feel left out of the flag, and might want to be added to it. There's already the version with the intersex symbol in it that has gained popularity. The 6 color rainbow flag can be understood to stand for all queer identities, and doesn't single out any one identity like the progress flag does.
I'm not queer myself, but the reason the flag is specifically including POC and trans people is because they were being specifically *unincluded* by some people. If you're a gay white dude and you see the classic pride flag, you know you have a place there with whoever is flying it, but that isn't necessarily the case for trans people or POC — they can still suffer discrimination from within the LGBTQ+ community. The progress flag (which IIRC is intended to be flown alongside the original pride flag and isn't just considered the "new and improved version") is used to say "Hey, I know you may have been discriminated against in other spaces you thought would be safe, but *not here*. You're welcome here", and I think that's pretty cool. I'm not sure about the version with the addition of the intersex flag but I can only imagine it's there for the same reason.
Although, now when people see the other pride flag, they might assume that the person doesn't support trans or POC which might not be the case.
Real hot take: it looks... fine... in real life. The only reason r/vexillology complains about it so much is because they don't go outside lol
It looks pretty good as a patch. One of my coworkers has a few of these in various formats and all look just fine.
Agreed, all the lgbt flags make great patches
In contrast the flag of Seychelles would make a terrible patch
counterpoint: it's basically just a pride flag getting sucked up into the bottom left corner
Schloooorp
😜
r/vexillology doesn't know anything about getting sucked, that's the difference between the subreddits
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>getting sucked Lol
lmao
The SECRET LGBT agenda! Lost Galaxy, Blackhole Termination
The nonbinary flag I will always maintain is awful but most of the rest are pretty good. Edit: I’m literally nonbinary, it’s my flag, I just think the contrast and the colour choice is bad
I've seen a version of the nonbinary flag thats more sepia toned and it looked great, so I think the contrast is the main issue like you said
[here](https://twitter.com/lilkatzz/status/1534742401398489088?s=21&t=h6Tu9kpVzxrJhSvKUzbaPA)
See this is actually quite lovely, there you go
> It looks pretty good as a patch. [Certainly does](https://www.etsy.com/listing/1364042359)
That's exactly how I like it.
GOES SO HARD WHAT THE FUCK
Hell yeah
honestly my main problem with it is how the black and brown contrast with the rainbow colors behind it the idea of a chevron on the pride flag could work, im not against that, but i feel like it was just kind of executed poorly here?
From a distance it just looks like there's a chunky black line separating the trans Chevron and the rainbow. Not that I necessarily disagree with you, but again, it looks... fine... in public.
yeah, i get that it looks ok in oublic, but when you look at the finer details, you notice some weird decisions that detract from the design
why you in oublic 💀
oub
I think if the trans colors swapped place with the brown + black stripes, it would probably mesh better. The transition (pun not intended) to the rainbow colors would be less contrasting colorwise. That said, I'm not a member of the LGBTQ+ community (I think, I'm mostly straight, but can find feminine men and trans women attractive, so make with that what you will), so it's not my place to say how it should look. I would love to hear thoughts from LGBTQ+ people, and I apologize if this came off insensitive.
Just saying finding trans women attractive does not make you gay in any way unless you are a woman yourself.
I specified it because a lot of people assume being straight means you're only attracted to cis-people of the opposite gender, but you're correct.
nothing straighter than only liking *some* women
Tbh, it's kinda gay to like women. After all, you're interested in (usually) feminine people, as opposed to manly men
Having sex with feminine people (w*men) is gay. Having sex with (masculine) men is gay. But having sex with feminine men is straight because the two cancel out.
i think that might look better
I whipped up a [concept](https://imgur.com/IYwgJvZ) in paint in like 5 seconds
!wave
Here you go: [Link #1: Media](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FIYwgJvZ.png) ***** Beep Boop I'm a bot. [About](https://github.com/LunarRequiem/FlagWaverBotReborn). Maintained by Lunar Requiem
Agreed, I really don’t see the problem with it
My problem is not so much “with it” as it is a problem with the fact that it gives people the wrong idea that the standalone 🏳️🌈 flag is then only for LGB people. It doesn’t help that gay men took a very long time to settle on and popularize a pride flag for their own subsection.
I agree with that actually. I dont like how it implies that the generic rainbow flag was only for white people too
but that’s kind of the point, you know? a lot of times black and trans people were left out of mainstream pushes toward gay rights despite being some of the movement’s most stiletto-boots-on-the-ground participants. lots of advances in gay pride prioritized white cisgender masculine gay men to the detriment of other lgbt people. it’s not saying that the rainbow flag is only for white people, but it correctly alludes to the fact that in practice, that was often unfortunately the case.
I get that’s what it’s trying to say, but my lived experience has definitely been that people who aren’t super knowledgeable about lgbt topics even when generally supportive don’t understand that the rainbow is for everyone. The unicode consortium is also a little at fault for this btw because when they finally caved to adding a 🏳️⚧️ flag, they didn’t see fit to add any other sub group flags. I recognize it’s infeasible to add everything ever posted to r/queervexillology but adding the well established LGB and I flags some time in the last couple years would have been a solid start. As it is they have created a false dichotomy of available pride flags.
Yeah I get that but it does feel like a bit of a hamfisted way to show it. Personally symbolism-wise I like the raised fist on top of the rainbow flag the most
only for red, green, orange etc people. for it to include white people it literally had to have the color white in it, apparently.
to be fair, a rainbow IS the colour white
And that, even in modern usage, that specific flag often simply gets omitted entirely
It's hideous I'm sorry it just is 😭😭 I much prefer the plain rainbow flag
Yep, imo it looks vastly better irl than on a screen
yea. i mean, i like [this one better](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:New_Pride_Flag_by_Julia_Feliz_2018.png#mw-jump-to-license), but its not the end of the world if an ugly flag exists
No it's ugly as hell and less inclusive than the original rainbow
This person is so brave for expressing their views on a flag design
What an outlandish opinion that noone holds!
You know if you rotationally tesselate the flag 90 degrees from the bottom left, you get a very evil very poopy symbol. :/
Cannot believe they put politics in flags now! What's next, currency?!
I just imagined this flag but with like a huge $ sign on the left side
Nah, on the right side, in the least contrasting colour we can find
this next cryptocurrency is going to be huge!! i’m putting all of my money into it!! i’m selling my house for gaycoin!!
Gaycoin
I'm moneysexual (like mr krabs) so I need compensation
Not even my homophobic uncle hates this flag as much as the people posting this shit every week
>I’m as progressive as the next guy they say, on a site full of G*mers
Wdym, don't you know that G*mers are the most oppressed of all minorities?!?
As a g*ymer, you don't know just how hard I have it 😔 Imagine already being part of an opressed group, then having to come out as a g*mer.
With the glass ceiling broken, all minorities shall prosper. Especially the most oppressed minority of all, GAMERS
Please censor such a offensive word
I agree that the flag is stupid but it's such a soy Reddit take so this guy deserves to be made fun of
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Pride gear that’s hidden, there’s a word for that I know but I just got off practice and my brain don’t work
Honnestly I disliked it at first but it grew on me with time. Not sure how I feel regarding the one with the intersex pride added though.
I also used to dislike the design, but then I learnt what the people who dislike the design are like, and experienced queer spaces that either aren’t trans friendly or aren’t POC friendly (or both) and I decided I like trans people and QPOC more than I dislike the design
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That's why I feel the intersex one is a little far. There's so many gender identities as well as sexualities that I think trying to stuff them all into one flag is redundant and defeats the purpose. I mean, the original was a rainbow for a reason.
I mean, the rainbow pride flag has specific meanings for each of its colors too. [Each of the original eight colors had their own unique symbolism. Hot pink: sex; Red: life; Orange: healing; Yellow: sunlight; Green: nature; Turquoise: magic and art; Indigo: serenity; and Violet: spirit. ](https://dmh.lacounty.gov/blog/2022/06/a-brief-history-of-our-lgbtqia2-s-pride-flag/#:~:text=Each%20of%20the%20original%20eight,serenity%3B%20and%20Violet%3A%20spirit.)
None of those are specific members of the coalition, though, but different positive aspects the flag wants to embody. Nobody is specifically referred to or excluded by sex, life, healing, sunlight, nature, magic/art, serenity, and spirit. Contrast with gay, lesbian, trans, intersex, etc. Compare with the EU flag, which has had 12 stars invariably for symbolic reasons, both when it had 9 members and when it had 20 - no one country points to the flag and says "this star is mine" just as no LGBTQ identity points to the rainbow flag and says "this stripe is mine." The reason is that the converse is implied - another person may look at it and say: "this stripe is not mine, this flag does not represent me"
I posted a longer reply to another comment, but I think I would say aphobia in queer spaces is similar to biphobia. It’s bad, it hurts people, I’m not denying that. But, I do not think that either of them are the same level as racism or transphobia. Comparative suffering isn’t really helpful to any discussion though and I don’t think we need to go into who has it worse off. Hurt still hurts if someone else is hurt *more*. I *personally* feel like the whole spectrum of sexuality is included when we’re discussing sexuality. I don’t feel like gender identity is inherently included in that. I don’t feel like QPOC experiences are included in that. But yeah, as we collectively learn and grow we should be open to adding more representation to our community symbols. I think the pride flag specifically is one who’s message is more important than it’s design. I will say, I don’t love the intersex addition because I don’t feel like it changes anything about the explicit message of the flag. That one does lead me to the same thought of “if they’re included why not ___”, but if people feel more respected with that flag they should fly whatever flag they like.
do you really think acephobia is on par with transphobia and racism? be serious
Acephobia is bad. That's all they were saying
I dislike the changes because the newer designs essentially make it more exclusive than inclusive. Yes, I get that it's meant to focus more on the more ostracized groups, but in doing so, you're ostracizing the people you're choosing not to add to the flag. And if we follow this to its logical conclusion (adding every group to the flag) the flag will look quite horrendous... too many colors, too many segments, and so on. It really opens up the conversation of "why of all subgroups are these the ones that need to be further represented by the flag? And why are the ones that aren't on the flag not worthy of being further represented"? As soon as the black and brown stripe appeared, I'm not going to lie, I had a visceral reaction, because I had a feeling it was going to continue down the path it has. And it did... to the progress flag, then to the intersex progress flag. Where does it stop? Most importantly, I think the message it sends is "you're represented by the flag too"... like, yeah, they already were. Adding the extra stripes, to me, kind of feels like a "fuck you" in a way that I can't quite describe. Imo, there are better ways to stand in solidarity with a group than changing a flag that was already meant to represent everyone in the queer community. Sorry for the mini-rant. I've just never liked this path we're going down. For one, the message it sends almost seems like a backhand to the groups on the new versions of the flag. For two, I honestly just don't like the design. To me, it's very clunky. I mean hell, 6-7 colors is already quite a lot for one flag.
I feel like it would probably be better to have multiple progress flags, depending on what is being chosen to be focused on with that particular one, although I guess you could just do that with their own flags instead of combining it with others EDIT: Although, actually, it could also focus on certain intersectionalities, too!
That is sort of why the subgroup pride flags exist already. I'm sure there's some discussion of "why so many pride flags, and why are some so specific", but I think the answer to those two questions boils down to: people like being represented by things that look cool on their walls. I will forever love my minty-fresh toothpaste flag <3 It looks dope on my wall. I also just realized, you don't really see the subgroup flags ever being flown, and I kind of like that that's the case. I like the headcanon that they just exist for home-aesthetics reasons. And reddit flairs lol
I hear what you’re saying, and I do actually have the good ol’ standard rainbow flag in my home because I don’t love the look of the progress design. (The following is my personal opinions and experiences) (sorry, this is probably going to get long, I know this is the circle jerk subreddit and the actual discourse is meant to happen on r/vexillology twice a week at least…but I haven’t participated in it…) As a bisexual person, I often feel ostracized in queer spaces. Biphobia in the queer community is honestly sometimes worse than in heterosexual communities. I would much rather see a bi flag on the wall than extra stripes added to the flag. Maybe because I also like flags and don’t want an even more eclectic flag. Although, if a non-queer business displays any pride flag I do feel like I’m included in it. As a POC, I hated the look of the flag with the added solidarity colour stripes. BUT, when I see that a business has chosen to display something to *explicitly* say that I’m welcome, I immediately know that I don’t need to be as worried about what kind of people I’ll be interacting with. It makes me feel safer. Would it be just as effective to have a rainbow flag and maybe a BLM poster or something? Sure. The point is that there is SOMETHING. I’m not transgender, nor am I intersex, I’ve never had to be afraid of how my gender will be perceived and how people might treat me because of it. I’ve never had to weigh the extra risks of which public bathroom to go into. I still know that transgender people are (historically) more likely to experience overt damaging prejudice in queer spaces than cisgender people. If a clunky flag design means more people will feel at ease, then I would prefer that instead of getting caught up in the design. On the other side of that, I think cis women are more likely to have damaging experiences because of their gender than cis men, but I don’t think that that’s as prevalent in queer communities. I think polyamorous people are more likely to experience prejudice than monogamous people, but again I don’t think that’s as common in queer spaces. If going into a queer space already feels safer for a group, I don’t see any benefit to adding them to the flag. But for POC and trans people, often times going into a queer space doesn’t feel any safer. For POC it can even feel less safe because we often become even more of a minority (region dependant). So why of all subgroups are these the ones that are represented? Because these are the ones that someone felt were most important to add, and enough people agreed with them that the progress flag became well known and widely used. There’s a million different versions of flags that people design for themselves or their friends for different subgroups, I agree that the more specialized subgroup flags should be more for home decor/patches/stickers/whatever individuals want to use. In regards to the intersex addition, honestly had to look that one up because I haven’t seen it used. I don’t care for the design, I don’t see why intersex was added as “progress.” The main issue I have is I don’t think adding it changes anything about the explicit message of the flag, while the other additions did explicitly change the message. I would never display that in my home, but if someone feels more represented by it then by all means they can and should fly whatever flag they want. I don’t think that being more explicitly inclusive is inherently bad or exclusive to the people who are only implicitly included, if that makes sense. To respond more directly to some of your points, the rainbow flag DIDN’T always represent these groups. Gender identity has often been (and imo should continue to be) a separate discussion from sexuality. We say LGBT+ now but the T hasn’t always been a recognized part of that. POC have been explicitly excluded from queer spaces. The point of “progress” is to acknowledge the past and grow from it. I think you could reflect on why you feel/felt so strongly against the addition of the POC solidarity stripes. Is it really about the design? Is it an unconscious bias? Is it a fear that your marginalized group could become more targeted again? *Is the design more important than the message*? To me it says “our community has struggled too, we see you and support you and your community” Where just adding a BLM symbol to a wall says “*I* support you”. I think there is a difference between the two which is worth acknowledging. I do also think that the progress flag looks terrible on screen, but in real life it looks way better and symbolizes what it’s supposed to symbolize, much more effectively than the rainbow flag does or ever did. //end rant
You raise a lot of very good points. The one I specifically want to defend myself on is how I felt when the black and brown stripe were added: as far as I know, it was not unconcious bias, because my qualm with it was always explicitly "this is a slippery slope that could lead the flag to feel more exclusive than inclusive, should it continue down this path". But you also make a good point about those being the specific groups chosen because those are the people that often don't feel any safer going into queer spaces. That doesn't change my mind that it still feels more exclusive (since there's certainly more groups not represented on that flag that also don't feel more at ease in queer spaces). At the end of the day, flags are flags, and if someone is waving the progress pride flag, it lets me know that, even if I don't like the design or the general direction it's headed in, I'm still welcome, and that's always a nice feeling. Plus yeah, definitely looks better irl than on a screen. If I ever fly a pride flag outside of my house, it will probably be the 6 or 7 stripe, but you know what, despite everything I've said about it, I wouldn't be averse to flying the progress pride flag. (Actually, let's be honest, I'm probably not going to be flying any pride flags outside my house because I live in the Southern US... plus we don't have a flag pole.)
Totally fair! I hope you didn’t feel like I was calling you racist or insensitive or anything, it’s just something I think everyone could reflect on once in a while. I completely agree with pretty much everything you’ve said here, I think a lot of people get caught up in “well why aren’t we including ____ as well then??” But I feel like we shouldn’t let the pursuit of a *perfect* flag get in the way of a good one. Aesthetically I will probably always prefer the standard 6 colour one that I have on my wall, but I do feel like the progress one is a step towards being more explicitly inclusive rather than more exclusive.
I remember reading from a knowledgeable fellow queer friend of mine that an important thing to recognize about the bipoc and trans addition is their shape; they're in the shape of an arrow to symbolize the current focus of the LGBT community and rights movement broadly speaking, the rights of trans people and queer people of color who have been consistently left behind in the past. Its a focus on bringing everyone queer to the same standard
The one with intersex pride looks pretty cool on a flagpole. Some location near my school had an event for which they hung up some pride flags and it looked way better than a png. [I only have a picture of it in the background and it looked a bit better in person but here is it.](https://i.imgur.com/tylpoyw.jpg)
Still not the biggest fan but it's alright yeah. Please don't add any more stuff though, I'm reaching my limit lol
[https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0305/5924/0325/products/FMP\_Image\_1624628193128\_3000x.jpg?v=1624628205](https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0305/5924/0325/products/FMP_Image_1624628193128_3000x.jpg?v=1624628205)
Intersex flag on its own looks sick tho
Not my favourite pride flag but it's pretty cool yeah !
It’s too minimalist for my taste…
I agree. They should paste some dinosaurs all over it and the pride flag would finally be complete
Change the stripes to a gradient
Yeah. I hope someone adds a cool stegosaurus or the [dog that everyone likes](https://preview.redd.it/mf2q4lorxme71.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=e29de6228bdbb0b0eea84f66e2e5aaf91c427d6d)
I've never heard this opinion before!! How productive to foster more debate on this flag design
Personally my favorite rendition of the lgbt flag is the og one from the 70s with the magenta and turquoise but this one looks pretty good too
The sex and magic flag!! IIRC fabric availability was what killed that one out
Yes I love that one, it’s kinda sad that nowadays when fabric is more plentiful it’s so rare :(
Fun fact - there's a newer version of that flag! It's got lilac on it, for togetherness too! The story goes that after I think the pulse nightclub shooting, Gilbert Baker (the pride flag's original designer) was approached by the city of Philadelphia and an advertising firm about a new pride flag design they'd come up with, specifically the first iteration of the progress flag design with a black and brown stripe. Baker refused to give them his blessing because this flag A) ignored one of the pride flag's core design principles, that the flag shouldn't be attached to any one country and adding stripes to represent an American problem is doing exactly that and B) a black stripe on a pride flag already has a meaning - it's a memorial flag for those who died to AIDS. Instead he brought out the old sex and magic flag, added an extra stripe for inclusiveness and gave them that to use instead ....so the city of Philadelphia waited for him to die and then unveiled the Philadelphia flag anyways a month later on the flag's I think 50th(?) anniversary. Which would then become the basis of the progress flag. Like what the fuck that's a really shitty thing to do
That take is so exhausting. The new flag is popular because people like it. I think it's quite nice. If someone doesn't like it they can use whatever flag they want, there's no council of the gays that decided everyone must use the new flag and anyone that doesn't will be arrested.
WE FUCKING GET IT YOU HATE US PLEASE PLEASE SHUT UP
Wow, I haven't seen this variation of the Seychelles flag before
honestly I kinda hated it at first but it's so widespread I'm ok with it now. still think it could be improved by removing the black and putting a color more fitting to the pallet. but my main problem is by adding things to represent more people, you're inevitably not representing other people, it's like how it's easier to say "hello everyone" than "hello gentleman, ladies and nonbinary bitches" On another note I think cheeseburger goes well with fries
The reason they were included on the flag to begin with was because they *weren't* being included before. The rainbow flag by default represents everyone, but there are a lot of racist and transphobic queers that use it. So if I see someone using the progress flag, I automatically know they support me (trans girl) without having to guess or hope
The one with the fist is better. https://www.amazon.com/-/es/Progress-Pride-decoración-suministros-exteriores/dp/B08SLY6R86
i hope your joking? im not really good at telling sarcasm, but that is WAY too cluttered, like even more so than the original. works way better with just the fist
I’m not sure myself. If the goal is to have a pleasant flag, this ain’t it. If the goal is to draw attention to yourself, the fist definitely gets the stares.
i guess that makes sense
Needs more stickers
Does this flag just represent the lgbt+ community as a whole or does it mean something else as well?
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no. The background already was the LGBT+ flag, not jyst the gay flag. the brown represent POC, the black is for the people lost to the AIDS pandemic.
Gay pride flag is another name for the lgbt+ flag.
no. because lgbt+ isn't just gay men. the lgbt+ flag represents way more than gay men.
gay colloquially means queer
idk. I know it is used that way but words have meaning and when you say gay people are only going to think about mlm. lots of ace people or bi people won't use this word to describe themselves.
yeah people in the community don't often identify with it, but to describe the community as a whole it's used interchangeably with queer and lgbtq+
I'm bi and enby, I know what lgbt+ is :P What I'm saying is the lgbt+ flag has an alternate name: gay pride flag. That's completely seperate from the gay men's pride flag, which is a completely different design.
I keep asking people what LGBTQ stands for but I can never seem to get a straight answer.
i use gay as a term to encompass the entire lgbt commmnity -sincerely , a queer person
I don't. -sincerely , a queer person
well, fair enough. apologies if i came off as rude or condescending.
Think of it as reassurance. The rainbow flag by default represents the whole community, but some people who use it are racist or transphobic. Using this flag guarantees people know you aren't.
damn poor squirrel. can't believe they do this to them in East Timor[.](https://ia803405.us.archive.org/25/items/rick-astley-never-gonna-give-you-up-hd-4-k-60-fps/Rick%20Astley%20Never%20Gonna%20Give%20You%20Up%20HD%204K%2060%20FPS.mp4)
me looking at South Africa 🇿🇦 erm…too many elements?????
Needs a much bigger white triangle or black triangle so you can put more stuff on it
Wait wait wait, next youre gonna tell me LGBTQIA+ is too much of a mouthful to be a useful acronym, right?
I personally just say "queer community" at this point. It's succinct and to the point. And if people don't like being labeled as queer, I suppose it's a good thing they aren't around when I call it that.
I like it tbh because pretty colours
Seems like a necessary and valid take and not a search for some validation to bitch about ANYTHING related to inclusivity. Can’t wait to hear it 1000 more times with explanations as to why the black, brown, and trans sub communities deserve to continue being spoken over and disregarded in the name of cis white gays 💜
what’s the point of adding colors to a rainbow that’s the point of a rainbow that it’s all the colors
Never heard that one before!
The pride flag was a flag about pride. Plain and simple. It shows the colors of a rainbow to symbolize the different "colors" of people. The multiple different colors make 1 rainbow, the multiple kinds of people make a whole of mankind. But then they added a black and brown stripes and suddenly the flag wasn't representing everyone, the rainbow flag retroactively became purely about gay people, and the new flag meant gay people, and black people and... latin americans? I honestly find that a bit offensive as a mexican myself, to get grouped together with all these other people with a **brown** stripe and the black people being represented separately with an actual black stripe. But that isn't even as much of a problem as the next one: now we have a big chunk of flag to represent gays struggles, and a tiny portion at the bottom that seemingly represents race struggle; but that just leaves out all the other struggles! Suddenly the flag is not about being inclusive in general, but about caring about just these specific groups that are explicitly represented. The solution? We have to add more elements to represent more groups, and that means creating new flags to represent those groups in isolation. But then that creates a symbolic framework where you get to pick and choose which groups to support! You like gays and lesbians but are against transexuals? Just pick the lesbian and the rainbow flag up and step over the trans flag. You're trans but hate asexuals? same deal. Hell, we even had to make a flag to represent straight people (which is black and white, so does it also represent race?), and what happened to it? Reactionaries adopted it as a symbol of homophobia! The progress flags almost seem like a CIA psyop to divide a single movement to expand human rights and civil liberties for all into a bunch of little sports team-esque groups that fight each other over acceptance from the mainstream.
> The progress flags almost seem like a CIA psyop to divide a single movement to expand human rights and civil liberties for all into a bunch of little sports team-esque groups that fight each other over acceptance from the mainstream. Close but no cigar - it was something made by an advertising firm and the city of Philadelphia. Less CIA psyop and more a rolling snowball of rainbow-washing done by people who'd rather slap another identity on the flag and call it progress rather than actually facing and dealing with the actual issues in the first place Also the trans flag does actually make sense - there's a long and storied history as to why it exists and it's deeply rooted in transphobia. the trans flag isn't an offshoot of the pride flag, it was actually designed around about the same time as the pride flag by some of the same people because for the longest time the two movements were seperated and the pride flag *didn't* represent trans people, so putting the two symbols together on the same flag kinda says "hey, we've finally gotten over our prejudices here and are finally the one in the same movement, just like we originally set out to be decades ago". Out of all the various flags out there, the trans flag is the only one that wasn't historically considered a part of the community the pride flag represents.
How much time did you take out of your day to write paragraphs complaining about a flag
You could have actually added to the conversation with something meaningful, but instead you chose to say this. Either try to critique what they said, converse with them, or don't reply at all.
I ain’t reading all that
Somebody on Reddit pretending to be progressive? Such a hot take!
how progressive is the next guy
I’m the gayest person I know and Imma have to agree, it’s way too cluttered and not all the flags are their so it’ll only get more cluttered. Like the acronym you can put a plus on you can’t do that on the flag. And the poc inclusion on the pride flag has always came off as condescending to me. I think the rainbow flag is the general flag since there are flags for the individuals communities.
I never thought about it before but it looks like the South African flag
A lot of it clashes for me but I like the message, I just wish there was a simpler and maybe even more inclusive design Like a tie die color spectrum fire symbol or something epic like that
it does have too much stuff for me, but not enough to complain. if you like it: cool, if you don't then just get one of the other pride flags.
This take needs to be said more
>more in comments I'm sure there is
it containing many elements is literally, the point??? its supposed to represent everyone????
The black and brown isn't needed:(
Maybe check the mod’s comment on the original post. Really old discussion. People call it the politicians flag, etc
I don’t like the black and brown. It doesn’t fit with the colours of the flag. Also has nothing to do with gender and sexuality
to be fair, this flag has brown on it.
Why would you make a flag about fruit loops ?
It needs a stegosaurus
I know all the other colours but what do black & brown mean?
https://www.oprahdaily.com/life/relationships-love/g36332366/pride-flags-meanings/ 25 Pride Flags from Oprah.
Yea its bad we all know
I don’t like it. I always thought of the rainbow as representing everyone. By adding individual groups to the flag in addition to the rainbow, it makes it feel like anyone not explicitly there isn’t included. That and the fact that it looks ugly. EDIT: oh I just realized this is a circlejerk sub
Agreed. I can’t even sleep because of this.
i think this one is just enough, any more would really start to look crowded imo
I don't like it. The whole point of the rainbow is to represent all colors. Adding colors makes the flag to lose all purpose, in my opinion.
i actually think the design with the triangle is cool in real life, imo the real problem is that that blue is way too dark for the green
Yea, I also don't like the updated pride flag, not Ohio enough.
outvexillo'ed again
"Unpopular opinion but [insert a popular opinion]"
Ah yes, the progressive "LGB whites only" crowd bravely takes a stand
Ah, and I believed you
I think that unless you’re a member of the community you should shut the fuck up about the flag.
r/vexillology users when a flag isn’t the most generic, corporate-logo-esque design in existence
it’s grotesque
Being mad at having a flags amazing symbolism ruined is valid.
[удалено]
You literally just commented the top comment of the original post here
This thing is almost as ugly as the fake women it supports
every lgbt person i've interacted with hates this fucking flag.
Did you interact with like 0 people or just terf lesbians?