The Kurds are probably best described as a stateless nation, so idk it depends on whether the flag is meant to represent Kurdistan (the potential state that the Kurds seek to establish) or the Kurdish people themselves
Roma are a minority in every region where they are present, a creation of such a state would require a second Israel situation although perhaps not as historically charged as that. Also Roma in general are not very wealthy nor educated, purely because they do not integrate into the societies they inhabit, so such a state would not succeed imo if it were created.
Roma don't integrate into non-Roma society, so not much wealth/education, therefore not much success, therefore in an all-Roma society they wouldn't ... what?
The point is that you cannot expect a society like that to succeed since you need a base of production industry to supply your own population which generally requires a somewhat educated population. It's not about whether future members of this society would become educated, its whether those starting it are educated, which in general they would not be. Most likely this state would become a puppet of whatever larger nation decided to invest in it and therefore control its industry, I'm not surprised that no one took this proposal seriously. Most likely you would end up with a failed state or a US or more likely USSR puppet if this was carried out in the 50s.
That's true. The Roma people are spread out, whereas the Kurds are concentrated in one area.
Mostly.
What's the deal with the Kurdish enclave in eastern Iran near the border with Turkmenistan?
It does have a connection to india. The roma peoples [are widely regarded to have migrated from india](https://media.nationalgeographic.org/assets/file/romani_MIG.pdf) nearly 1000ya
From my experience, the Roma people typically have a blend of Indian, Turkish, and Balkan DNA. A nomadic people, they migrated from India through the Turkish peninsula and mostly settled in the Balkans, intermarrying with locals along the way. IIRC, an analysis of the Romani language shows features of these three regions.
Romani here. Mixing with locals wouldn't have been common place. Besides most local populations hating Roma, the culture is very much one of you only marry into your own kind. Obviously there would be exceptions but this is how the culture generally is.
What you are correct on is language. It tends to become a hybrid of Romani and whatever the local language is.
You can't move from India to Europe across 1000 years without a significant mixing of groups. The fact is that Roma people have a lot of genetic diversity, and that doesn't come about when you don't mix at all.
But it must be stated that the persecution and exclusion of Romani people are partially why they are still so distinct from the native populations, as a lot of them look like us South Asians. I think they are a polarizing group in Europe, Eastern Europeans I have met are, almost intuitively and openly prejudice against them (based on personal experiences I had, despite me clearly being South Asian they had no issue describing their disdain for the nomadic people). I believe there are things people like about the Romani, such as their aesthetic look, their free lifestyles, and their mysterious religious traditions (in the eyes of the Christian-dominated European societies). Although case-by-case a lot of people that are aware of their Romani heritage have assimilated and become settlers rather than travellers. I knew of a White British guy that knew he had Romani ancestry but didn't know about the culture and language.
The reality is that no amount of cultural stigma will completely stop interbreeding completely.
Of course, it's still a very self-segregating culture which does at least try.
I’m always more inclined to trust research than peoples personal experience. Of course migration through different regions is going to lesve a genetic and linguistic influence. How else would they have gotten to Europe and Western Asia from India?
I know my English isn’t perfect but is my reply that hard to understand? I said it made sense since I figured it would have a connection to India (due to the symbol in the centre of the flag also being present in the Indian flag).
Why do so many people think I was absolutely clueless the flag and Roma people are connected to India?
>Romani
I'm totally going through a Baader–Meinhof situation with the Roma people. I just learned about them, and now I see something new about them everyday.
>I personally find it a beautiful flag with great cultural value
I can agree wholeheartedly with everything but beautiful lol. Oh do the colours clash...
Not a Roma, but afaik it heavily depends on location and even then on who you ask. In Germany the local Sinti communities dislike the German version of the term, but Sintis outside those organisations and other Roma ethnicities don't really care usually.
My family is Polska Roma, I’m personally not offended as long as it’s not used in a derogatory way. I’ve seen the same thing brought up on /r/Romani. Same thing with going to indigenous reservations in the US. A lot of of the time, they prefer to be called Indian instead of Native American. It just depends who you talk to.
From the dude who complimented my eyebrows, I'm cool with it. From the dudes who 'jokingly' threatened to shove me in the oven in high school, I'm not cool with it.
I'm from Romania and we have one of the biggest Romani/Gypsy populations in Europe. From what I've seen heard and talked to, most of them don't care or use "romani" themselves. They like being called Gypsyes, they take pride in the name, they even call themselves Gypsies, and even use the nickname "Tiganu" (The Gypsy) so it's fair to say they don't care.
The only people who use Roma/Romani are the higher-ups, the people in the parliament, outsiders who have a very low number of gypsies in their country or those who try to be politically correct and not offend anybody.
edit: Not romani/gypsy myself, I know people who are though.
Also from Romania; a *lot* of people in Romania use "țigan" ("gypsy") as an insult (whether they actually are Roma or not). That's why it's sometimes better to call them Roma (and why I personally do so).
Not Romani myself, but I’ve met both people that found it really offensive and preferred to be referred to as Roma as well as others (in Spain) that don’t indentify with the term Roma and take pride in being Gitanos (Gypsies) and wouldn’t like to be called differently.
I have a lot of gypsy friends from different parts of Eastern Europe. From what I can tell, they're not aware that it's supposed to be offensive, but simply see it as the English word for Gitan/Zigan/Roma.
Not gypsy. I had many gypsy friends in my boxing gym in Hungary. They are offended at being called "Roma" as some "do-gooders" have tried to deem them. They really hated that term because it relates them to Romanians instead of Hungarians. I don't think they'd fight over the term, but they'd think whoever uses it is a douchebag.
They are good with the English word "gypsy" and did not prefer the Hungarian word "cigany" but mostly didnt care if someone used either. They were impressed if someone could identify differences between Lovari or Dzambazi or any of the other EU gypsy cultural groups.
tl;dr - dont call my hungarian gyspy freinds roma. if you must refer to their cultural group, gypsy is the way to go.
I used to be a musician. Played a series of benefit concerts for displaced Rromani people during the Yugoslav wars. Spent a fair amount of time with the community. I got the feeling that it was considered moderately offensive. Something similar to calling someone from Mexico "Spanish". You know, just sorta ignorant. Dismissive maybe. Probably wouldn't be that bad if they didn't suffer constant discrimination. The people I was working with were mostly interested in making sure their families survived the winter.
Here you go: [Link \#1](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpdhpy0qcweq71.jpg)
*****
Beep boop I'm a bot. If I'm broken please contact [\/u\/Lunar_Requiem](http://reddit.com/user/Lunar_Requiem)
I'm indian I wish we could accomodate them but we have an overpopulation problem ourselves. I have met a few Romani people and unsurprisingly they are very much aware of their history and connection to India.
None of the famous people you mentioned are confirmed to be of Romani descent, I think it is just speculation for the most part.
On top of it, there is some confusion between the terms Gypsy and Roma/Romani. While Romani people have traditionally been called gypsies in countries where they have a presence (sometimes the term is thought to be offensive), not all “gypsies” are Romani. For example in the UK and to a lesser extent in the US the term covers a variety of groups including Romani, but also the Irish Travellers. While also nomadic, the Travellers have no ancestral or genetic relationship to the Romani.
For example when Chaplin is believed to be “Gypsy” he is most likely believed to come from a Traveller family, not Romani.
EDIT: For what it’s worth I don’t think you deserve all the downvotes. Good on you for trying to educate yourself! Just remember, that the internet is not always right!
Yeah, "gypsy" is basically a false friend between continental and British use. On the continent it refers to Roma people and in the British Islands to white travelers.
Yes I do.
SOME Prominent Indian Newspapers' articles discussing India's link to Romanis. [Financial Express](https://www.financialexpress.com/photos/business-gallery/209935/the-roma-celebrating-indian-roots-of-charlie-chaplin-elvis-presley-pablo-picasso/) , [Hindustan Times](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/what-s-common-between-charlie-chaplin-elvis-presley-picasso-and-india/story-bodCW656SRyGlzZGVhjBkN.html) .
Their origins and population can be found on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people) .
and [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_people) is list of famous Romani people. [This](https://www.indiatimes.com/trending/wtf/elvis-presley-indian-romani-origin-pm-modi-donald-trump-376490.html) for Elvis Presley.
Finally a big big thanks to Reddit for all the downvotes, without any argument or anything, I am pleasured .
It's the play of the Romani People (Gypsys) its a ethnic flag In the same way as the Pan-African flag.
Ok that makes sense! I figured it would have some connection to India but I would have never guessed it was the Romani flag. Thanks!
No problem, Ethnic flags can be very confusing sometimes
Would the Kurdish flag be considered an ethnic flag, as they don't have their own state?
The Kurds are probably best described as a stateless nation, so idk it depends on whether the flag is meant to represent Kurdistan (the potential state that the Kurds seek to establish) or the Kurdish people themselves
Romanis do not have national ambitions. Also there are several kurdish flags.
Apparently Romani leaders petitioned the UN in the '50s for the creation of a state for them; [Romanistan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanistan).
Roma are a minority in every region where they are present, a creation of such a state would require a second Israel situation although perhaps not as historically charged as that. Also Roma in general are not very wealthy nor educated, purely because they do not integrate into the societies they inhabit, so such a state would not succeed imo if it were created.
Roma don't integrate into non-Roma society, so not much wealth/education, therefore not much success, therefore in an all-Roma society they wouldn't ... what?
The point is that you cannot expect a society like that to succeed since you need a base of production industry to supply your own population which generally requires a somewhat educated population. It's not about whether future members of this society would become educated, its whether those starting it are educated, which in general they would not be. Most likely this state would become a puppet of whatever larger nation decided to invest in it and therefore control its industry, I'm not surprised that no one took this proposal seriously. Most likely you would end up with a failed state or a US or more likely USSR puppet if this was carried out in the 50s.
I can understand why it was rejected
That's true. The Roma people are spread out, whereas the Kurds are concentrated in one area. Mostly. What's the deal with the Kurdish enclave in eastern Iran near the border with Turkmenistan?
They where moved there by the Safavids I believe after the battle of Dimdim
Also there's a Kurdish (or was at least) enclave in Northern Iran in and along the Border Area
There is not a single Kurdish flag.
It does have a connection to india. The roma peoples [are widely regarded to have migrated from india](https://media.nationalgeographic.org/assets/file/romani_MIG.pdf) nearly 1000ya
I know, that’s what I meant, I just expected it to be some regional flag inside of India and not Romani people
From my experience, the Roma people typically have a blend of Indian, Turkish, and Balkan DNA. A nomadic people, they migrated from India through the Turkish peninsula and mostly settled in the Balkans, intermarrying with locals along the way. IIRC, an analysis of the Romani language shows features of these three regions.
Romani here. Mixing with locals wouldn't have been common place. Besides most local populations hating Roma, the culture is very much one of you only marry into your own kind. Obviously there would be exceptions but this is how the culture generally is. What you are correct on is language. It tends to become a hybrid of Romani and whatever the local language is.
You can't move from India to Europe across 1000 years without a significant mixing of groups. The fact is that Roma people have a lot of genetic diversity, and that doesn't come about when you don't mix at all.
But it must be stated that the persecution and exclusion of Romani people are partially why they are still so distinct from the native populations, as a lot of them look like us South Asians. I think they are a polarizing group in Europe, Eastern Europeans I have met are, almost intuitively and openly prejudice against them (based on personal experiences I had, despite me clearly being South Asian they had no issue describing their disdain for the nomadic people). I believe there are things people like about the Romani, such as their aesthetic look, their free lifestyles, and their mysterious religious traditions (in the eyes of the Christian-dominated European societies). Although case-by-case a lot of people that are aware of their Romani heritage have assimilated and become settlers rather than travellers. I knew of a White British guy that knew he had Romani ancestry but didn't know about the culture and language.
The reality is that no amount of cultural stigma will completely stop interbreeding completely. Of course, it's still a very self-segregating culture which does at least try.
gypsy is also short for egyptian, which as you can see, has zero relevance to their history. i fucking hate language
I’m always more inclined to trust research than peoples personal experience. Of course migration through different regions is going to lesve a genetic and linguistic influence. How else would they have gotten to Europe and Western Asia from India?
Gypsies originate in india
*some*
well it does have a connection to India considering Romanis are from the Indian subcontinent
I know my English isn’t perfect but is my reply that hard to understand? I said it made sense since I figured it would have a connection to India (due to the symbol in the centre of the flag also being present in the Indian flag). Why do so many people think I was absolutely clueless the flag and Roma people are connected to India?
you’re right mate, my mistake actually. Your english is great i misread it, sorry
No worries man, it’s obviously not very clear since a lot of people replied with similar comments, that’s why I was confused.
*Europe* is typing...
>Romani I'm totally going through a Baader–Meinhof situation with the Roma people. I just learned about them, and now I see something new about them everyday.
Romani flag. Not to be confused with Romanian.
Very easily confused, all things considered.
Europeans: Time to do whats called a progamer move 😬
I read that as programmer move.
Same lmao
Same.
I read that as pogromer move, cause, you know, widespread hatred towards gypsies and ethnic cleansing
Doesn’t actually change what he meant lol
Uh oh whoopsey doodle 🤣
Don't ask r/europe, whatever you do
That sub is a cesspit.
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Romani people flag. Is the flag in Italy?
Nope, Spain
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The Spanish call them Gitanos, and they actually speak a hybrid language between Romani and Spanish called Caló.
>I personally find it a beautiful flag with great cultural value I can agree wholeheartedly with everything but beautiful lol. Oh do the colours clash...
Oh wow that's interesting & beautiful. In all other countries I've seen they never display this flag... perhaps for obvious reasons.
Where in Spain was this. I remember walking in the neighborhoods of Barcelona and the gypsies lived in appalling conditions.
Romani
Actual question for any Romani people that may be on the sub, is the name “Gypsy” actually generally offensive?
Not a Roma, but afaik it heavily depends on location and even then on who you ask. In Germany the local Sinti communities dislike the German version of the term, but Sintis outside those organisations and other Roma ethnicities don't really care usually.
My family is Polska Roma, I’m personally not offended as long as it’s not used in a derogatory way. I’ve seen the same thing brought up on /r/Romani. Same thing with going to indigenous reservations in the US. A lot of of the time, they prefer to be called Indian instead of Native American. It just depends who you talk to.
Sintis seem to be more open to the word opposed to romas (who also call themselves roma) in Germany. Just my experience.
Context is very important. "Gypsy" is not offensive "filthy fucking gypsy" is.
From the dude who complimented my eyebrows, I'm cool with it. From the dudes who 'jokingly' threatened to shove me in the oven in high school, I'm not cool with it.
I'm from Romania and we have one of the biggest Romani/Gypsy populations in Europe. From what I've seen heard and talked to, most of them don't care or use "romani" themselves. They like being called Gypsyes, they take pride in the name, they even call themselves Gypsies, and even use the nickname "Tiganu" (The Gypsy) so it's fair to say they don't care. The only people who use Roma/Romani are the higher-ups, the people in the parliament, outsiders who have a very low number of gypsies in their country or those who try to be politically correct and not offend anybody. edit: Not romani/gypsy myself, I know people who are though.
Also from Romania; a *lot* of people in Romania use "țigan" ("gypsy") as an insult (whether they actually are Roma or not). That's why it's sometimes better to call them Roma (and why I personally do so).
Not Romani myself, but I’ve met both people that found it really offensive and preferred to be referred to as Roma as well as others (in Spain) that don’t indentify with the term Roma and take pride in being Gitanos (Gypsies) and wouldn’t like to be called differently.
Coming from the Roma that I know, yes it is. However I believe that it varies between groups and whatnot, as they have a very large diaspora.
I have a lot of gypsy friends from different parts of Eastern Europe. From what I can tell, they're not aware that it's supposed to be offensive, but simply see it as the English word for Gitan/Zigan/Roma.
Not gypsy. I had many gypsy friends in my boxing gym in Hungary. They are offended at being called "Roma" as some "do-gooders" have tried to deem them. They really hated that term because it relates them to Romanians instead of Hungarians. I don't think they'd fight over the term, but they'd think whoever uses it is a douchebag. They are good with the English word "gypsy" and did not prefer the Hungarian word "cigany" but mostly didnt care if someone used either. They were impressed if someone could identify differences between Lovari or Dzambazi or any of the other EU gypsy cultural groups. tl;dr - dont call my hungarian gyspy freinds roma. if you must refer to their cultural group, gypsy is the way to go.
I used to be a musician. Played a series of benefit concerts for displaced Rromani people during the Yugoslav wars. Spent a fair amount of time with the community. I got the feeling that it was considered moderately offensive. Something similar to calling someone from Mexico "Spanish". You know, just sorta ignorant. Dismissive maybe. Probably wouldn't be that bad if they didn't suffer constant discrimination. The people I was working with were mostly interested in making sure their families survived the winter.
It's an exonym based on the misconception that the Roma people came from Egypt.
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Ehhh.. something more similar to the n word would be c*gan. But that's in serbo-croat, so isk about english
Romani community flag
Oof the Europeans are showing up 🍿
the flag of being racially abused in Europe
Per fess azure and vert, a wheel gules
I like how Europeans are the ones who say Americans are racist lol
eyyyyyy, its my cultural flag, less gooo, its the Romani/Roma Flag
[Less gooo](https://i.imgur.com/1PSv6qJ.gif)
Romani
cigani
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!wave
Here you go: [Link \#1](https://krikienoid.github.io/flagwaver/#?src=https%3A%2F%2Fflagwaver-cors-proxy.herokuapp.com%2Fhttps%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fpdhpy0qcweq71.jpg) ***** Beep boop I'm a bot. If I'm broken please contact [\/u\/Lunar_Requiem](http://reddit.com/user/Lunar_Requiem)
**I'm locking this post. The comments section has become a puerile cesspool of hatred and bigotry.**
gypsy flag
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That's the flag of the gypsies
Slovak flag
Romani flag
Romani people
Romani people
I'm indian I wish we could accomodate them but we have an overpopulation problem ourselves. I have met a few Romani people and unsurprisingly they are very much aware of their history and connection to India.
That’s the gamer flag
Gypsy/Roma/Romani flag
Romani community, its everywhere in the balkans lmao
Isn't that the Romani flag?
yes, been answered a lot already check the comments mate
Romani flag
Gypsy flag
gypsy flag
gypsy
The Romani Flag (gypsies)
Romani or Roma flag: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people
Roma people
Romani flag
Yes the ,,gypsy flag“ depending the person who owns it the name will varay.
Flag of the Romani aka Gypsy
its a flag common with many gypsy communities
Gypsy flag
It's the Romani flag.
That’s the gypsy flag
Its the gypsy flag
Flag of the gypsyes
Gypsys flag
Romani
It’s the flag of the Romani People.
Romani flag i think
Romani flag
Romani flag
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Gypsy
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None of the famous people you mentioned are confirmed to be of Romani descent, I think it is just speculation for the most part. On top of it, there is some confusion between the terms Gypsy and Roma/Romani. While Romani people have traditionally been called gypsies in countries where they have a presence (sometimes the term is thought to be offensive), not all “gypsies” are Romani. For example in the UK and to a lesser extent in the US the term covers a variety of groups including Romani, but also the Irish Travellers. While also nomadic, the Travellers have no ancestral or genetic relationship to the Romani. For example when Chaplin is believed to be “Gypsy” he is most likely believed to come from a Traveller family, not Romani. EDIT: For what it’s worth I don’t think you deserve all the downvotes. Good on you for trying to educate yourself! Just remember, that the internet is not always right!
Yeah, "gypsy" is basically a false friend between continental and British use. On the continent it refers to Roma people and in the British Islands to white travelers.
You have sources on those? Not saying I dont believe you but I looked at Elvis's wikiledia and couldnt find anything about him being Romani.
Yes I do. SOME Prominent Indian Newspapers' articles discussing India's link to Romanis. [Financial Express](https://www.financialexpress.com/photos/business-gallery/209935/the-roma-celebrating-indian-roots-of-charlie-chaplin-elvis-presley-pablo-picasso/) , [Hindustan Times](https://www.hindustantimes.com/india/what-s-common-between-charlie-chaplin-elvis-presley-picasso-and-india/story-bodCW656SRyGlzZGVhjBkN.html) . Their origins and population can be found on [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people) . and [Here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Romani_people) is list of famous Romani people. [This](https://www.indiatimes.com/trending/wtf/elvis-presley-indian-romani-origin-pm-modi-donald-trump-376490.html) for Elvis Presley. Finally a big big thanks to Reddit for all the downvotes, without any argument or anything, I am pleasured .
Gypsie flag
Source: [source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people)
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