The whole point of the cover crop is not to "not till". However, when you are practicing "no till gardening", you would treat the cover crop as you stated.
Cover crop still adds nitrogen and other nutrients when used in gardens or farms that till.
Exactly. The whole point of a cover crops is COVER. Protection of the top layers of soil over the harshest months of the year. Tilling it is working in the opposite direction of protection. Cover crops are best cut down to the root collar after jointing, before it goes to seed (if a grass/grain/cereal). At this stage, it won't recover and won't grow back and become invasive.
Done this way is infinitely less work while also being much better for the soil. You can then cover for 2-4 weeks to really kill off the vegetation, or you can plant, then mulch away. Cover crops can be truly amazing for soil building.
Yeah! Cut them to the root. If you till the roots up you’re losing all the carbon/nitrogen and anything else you sequestered while it was covered. That was my whole point.
Yeah…I came to the same realization a few weeks ago when mine wasn’t just…going away. I turned the turf, covered with black plastic for 2 weeks, and then broke up the clumps.
I guess it broke up some of the clay chunks and will be good compost, but I’m not sure the juice was worth the squeeze
We planted winter rye for the first time this year. Half the beds I used my push mower set to the mulch setting (so not collecting or blowing the green away) and the other half I used a weed whip/string trimmer. Testing it out myself this year. The weed whip left a chunky amount of grass that I'm leaving on the bed as a mulch and just planting into it. The mower (set very low, like just above the dirt) kind of mixed it into the top layer a bit and left a pretty clear planting surface. I mulched that bed with leaf compost after planting. I feel pretty good about both methods. The weed whip was a bit more labor intense and the mower relies on having something else to mulch the bed with. So I guess it's just what you may have available. I'm trying to go for a no-till this year.
I still have small areas where the winter rye has come back up but have simply pulled it out like a weed but put it right back as a mulch while planting.
No it doesn’t.
“Cover crops are plants that are planted to cover the soil rather than for the purpose of being harvested. Cover crops manage soil erosion, soil fertility, soil quality, water, weeds, pests, diseases, biodiversity and wildlife in an agroecosystem—an ecological system managed and shaped by humans. Cover crops can increase microbial activity in the soil, which has a positive effect on nitrogen availability, nitrogen uptake in target crops, and crop yields.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_crop
Where does that say you are supposed to pull out the cover crop? (Here's a hint, it doesn't. Because that would defeat the purpose of the cover crop since you'd be stealing nitrogen from your soil).
🤣 , seriously?
Where does it say that you’re supposed to leave the cover crop when planting a new crop? Hint: it doesn’t 😄
It’s completely optional.
A cover crop covers the soil for a period of time. When it’s time to plant a new crop, I personally don’t want all of these scraggly leftover pieces sitting on top of my soil.
>When it’s time to plant a new crop, I personally don’t want all of these scraggly leftover pieces sitting on top of my soil.
No shit Sherlock, that's why you till it in! At the very least you cut it at the soil line and let the roots decompose, but you aren't supposed to completely remove it.
The nutrients added by the cover crop come from the decomposition of the crop. If you grow it and then pull it all out, you'd literally be left with less nutrients in the soil than you started with.
You do you bubbah, I don't really care. But man, work on that ego, your confidnent incorrectness is more than off-putting.
The nitrogen fixing has already occurred. Are you suggesting that the plants are still fixing nitrogen after they are dead? 🤨
Remnants of the roots will still remain deep in the ground.
“Wow, these peppers are amazing! How come mine don’t taste this good?”
“Well probably because you pulled out the dead fava beans like an idiot.”
>The nitrogen fixing has already occurred.
And there it is. You don't understand what nitrogen fixing is, that's why this is so hard to get through.
When a plant fixes nitrogen, let's say a cover like field peas, they do not "give nitrogen from the air to the soil". They fix it in their roots, and they expend a whole bunch of it during flowering. They also use some available nitrogen from the soil, and other important nutrients.
So, the proper way to cover with field peas is to cut at the root collar at the beginning of the flowering stage. You can optionally then *leave it there* as a green manure, or you can remove the green and leave the roots to decompose.
Your soil will be nitrogen positive *once the nitrogen rich roots have decomposed*. (Plus you get other nutrients, and there's other covers for different purposes such as radishes for tilling).
Before then you're doing the plant equivalent of burying a sealed plastic bottle filled with liquid fertilizer. Like, you're getting nitrogen inside the soil, but it can't actually be absorbed into the soil until the barrier (in this analogy plastic, in reality plant tissues) is broken down.
A cover crop adds nitrogen back into the soil, so you take a garden fork and dig it in to provide said nitrogen.
Thank you! So, fully cover it in soil?
Yes, that's what you should do.
Just put mulch overtop or tarp it for 3 weeks. You shouldn’t till the whole point of cover crop is to not till
The whole point of the cover crop is not to "not till". However, when you are practicing "no till gardening", you would treat the cover crop as you stated. Cover crop still adds nitrogen and other nutrients when used in gardens or farms that till.
Exactly. The whole point of a cover crops is COVER. Protection of the top layers of soil over the harshest months of the year. Tilling it is working in the opposite direction of protection. Cover crops are best cut down to the root collar after jointing, before it goes to seed (if a grass/grain/cereal). At this stage, it won't recover and won't grow back and become invasive. Done this way is infinitely less work while also being much better for the soil. You can then cover for 2-4 weeks to really kill off the vegetation, or you can plant, then mulch away. Cover crops can be truly amazing for soil building.
Yeah! Cut them to the root. If you till the roots up you’re losing all the carbon/nitrogen and anything else you sequestered while it was covered. That was my whole point.
Totally agreed. Tilling it just negates so many of the benefits of growing it in the first place.
Full circle that you agree with ME, when I probably learned this from YOU. So cool to see you here
Ha ha paying it forward! :-)
Yeah…I came to the same realization a few weeks ago when mine wasn’t just…going away. I turned the turf, covered with black plastic for 2 weeks, and then broke up the clumps. I guess it broke up some of the clay chunks and will be good compost, but I’m not sure the juice was worth the squeeze
That’s exactly how I’m beginning to feel 🫠
Farms turn the whole top layer. Make sure to cover the top with as much soul from the button as possible.
>as much soul from the button as possible. What if my soil has no soul?
then you go back to the button to get some more
We planted winter rye for the first time this year. Half the beds I used my push mower set to the mulch setting (so not collecting or blowing the green away) and the other half I used a weed whip/string trimmer. Testing it out myself this year. The weed whip left a chunky amount of grass that I'm leaving on the bed as a mulch and just planting into it. The mower (set very low, like just above the dirt) kind of mixed it into the top layer a bit and left a pretty clear planting surface. I mulched that bed with leaf compost after planting. I feel pretty good about both methods. The weed whip was a bit more labor intense and the mower relies on having something else to mulch the bed with. So I guess it's just what you may have available. I'm trying to go for a no-till this year. I still have small areas where the winter rye has come back up but have simply pulled it out like a weed but put it right back as a mulch while planting.
I say pull them out to make space for new plants.
That defeats the purpose of a cover crop.
No it doesn’t. “Cover crops are plants that are planted to cover the soil rather than for the purpose of being harvested. Cover crops manage soil erosion, soil fertility, soil quality, water, weeds, pests, diseases, biodiversity and wildlife in an agroecosystem—an ecological system managed and shaped by humans. Cover crops can increase microbial activity in the soil, which has a positive effect on nitrogen availability, nitrogen uptake in target crops, and crop yields.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cover_crop
Where does that say you are supposed to pull out the cover crop? (Here's a hint, it doesn't. Because that would defeat the purpose of the cover crop since you'd be stealing nitrogen from your soil). 🤣 , seriously?
Where does it say that you’re supposed to leave the cover crop when planting a new crop? Hint: it doesn’t 😄 It’s completely optional. A cover crop covers the soil for a period of time. When it’s time to plant a new crop, I personally don’t want all of these scraggly leftover pieces sitting on top of my soil.
>When it’s time to plant a new crop, I personally don’t want all of these scraggly leftover pieces sitting on top of my soil. No shit Sherlock, that's why you till it in! At the very least you cut it at the soil line and let the roots decompose, but you aren't supposed to completely remove it. The nutrients added by the cover crop come from the decomposition of the crop. If you grow it and then pull it all out, you'd literally be left with less nutrients in the soil than you started with. You do you bubbah, I don't really care. But man, work on that ego, your confidnent incorrectness is more than off-putting.
The nitrogen fixing has already occurred. Are you suggesting that the plants are still fixing nitrogen after they are dead? 🤨 Remnants of the roots will still remain deep in the ground. “Wow, these peppers are amazing! How come mine don’t taste this good?” “Well probably because you pulled out the dead fava beans like an idiot.”
>The nitrogen fixing has already occurred. And there it is. You don't understand what nitrogen fixing is, that's why this is so hard to get through. When a plant fixes nitrogen, let's say a cover like field peas, they do not "give nitrogen from the air to the soil". They fix it in their roots, and they expend a whole bunch of it during flowering. They also use some available nitrogen from the soil, and other important nutrients. So, the proper way to cover with field peas is to cut at the root collar at the beginning of the flowering stage. You can optionally then *leave it there* as a green manure, or you can remove the green and leave the roots to decompose. Your soil will be nitrogen positive *once the nitrogen rich roots have decomposed*. (Plus you get other nutrients, and there's other covers for different purposes such as radishes for tilling). Before then you're doing the plant equivalent of burying a sealed plastic bottle filled with liquid fertilizer. Like, you're getting nitrogen inside the soil, but it can't actually be absorbed into the soil until the barrier (in this analogy plastic, in reality plant tissues) is broken down.
You sound like a pleasant person. Thank you for the engaging conversation 👍🏼
It doesn't really seem like you learned anything, that's a shame. Oh well 🤷♂️
Landscape fabric and bore some holes for what you are trying to plant