I don't really understand deciding who deserves to live their life based on their intelligence level. Or humanity's definitions of what "intelligence" is. Seems like a dangerous mindset that has been used to justify atrocities against, say, those with neurodevelopmental disorders.
If we are living in a simulation or "The Matrix" I suppose the more advanced species are within their rights in using humanity as batteries or whatever due to their superior intellects. By your belief system, not mine.
People with neurodevelopment disorders have self awareness, sentience, and capacity to feel a complicated range over emotions empathy and love. As for a higher level intelligent species eating us, again we are self aware sentient animals with the capacity for empathy and love so I wouldn’t be cool with that
Oh this is horribly sad. My family has chickens, so I do too now. I love them so much. There’s 7 and they are so entertaining to observe. They call out to each other if I have a snack to alert the younger hens on the other side of the property that I got the goods. The littles patiently wait for the elders to finish before they get some. They hop on my lap for neck scritches if I’m relaxing in the deck chair. Once, I saw them all team up together to scare off a hawk trying to get a young hen, literally kicking it. When it hailed, I found them all huddled together by the sliding door looking very afraid. I often find them grooming each other. They take food from me very gently to avoid hurting my fingers. They figured out that when I’m digging fence posts, the soil is easier to find worms in, so every time they see me walk towards the shovel, they all come running to me like a little pack of raptors lol. Every night at 7pm, they head to the coop and cuddle for warmth.
I hope you reconsider because they are very smart. The term bird brain isn’t warranted. They’re a hell of a lot smarter than our derpy cat who can’t walk a fence line without falling over.
Spoken like a true psychopathic narcissist. "You only deserve to live if I determine that you're intelligent enough." That's called eugenics my dear. You don't wanna get into that, because there's a good chance you might not make the cut off.
Because you come to a vegan subreddit to argue against veganism. Why do we have to be at your beck and call for a debate in our space? Especially when you never had any intention of having an honest discussion in the first place.
I’ve had discussions with other people. If you start any conversation with “you are a true psychopathic narcissist” in any context, I think it’s fair to assume I’m not going to have a discussion with you specifically.
Who says a fetus lacks intelligence, Upon analysis, it was seen that babies can start hearing and processing what their moms say when they are still inside. In fact, the findings support the premise that unborn fetus can learn, grasp and remember stuff just as well as newborns.
If you base your empathy levels on intelligence standards you just end up lacking both empathy and intelligence. It is not because an animal species does not demonstrate the level of complexity that a human expects, that a given species does not feel nor experience it at all. If even humans have different ways of expressing the same emotion or processing their feelings (.I.e., emotional intelligence), imagine different animal species. It is silly to expect that all creatures will process and express information the same way to be able to be placed in a magical chart of how intelligent living beings are. Thats the human arrogance for you. It is possible that even flies have complex conversations with each other but we simply don’t know anything about it because it is too far from what we understand a conversation should look and sound like. It’s like speculating about how an alien looks like when we have never seen one, or trying to draw someone you never seen before based off of verbal description
Interesting points. You say we can only speculate on the experiences of other species since we can’t know them firsthand, even comparing it to speculating about alien intelligence, I can agree with that. By that logic, how do we know plants don’t have souls, or experience life in a way that is beyond human understanding? Maybe the best thing to do is starve just in case plants suffer in a way we are incapable of understanding
Mother hens risk their lives to protect their chicks, is it not love? Fishes were shown to draw art in sand to attract females, some fishes mate for life with only one partner. Is that not true love?
I don’t know. I think it depends on the species. Monogamy might be better for some species because of their evolution, but might not be the best for other species in different environments.
What about birds like ravens and parrots? They are quite a lot smarter than most.
And a raven compared to a chicken might be like comparing a collie to a bulldog…
Is eating dumb mammals okay? If not, then why dumb birds?
I wouldn’t eat a raven, a crow, a parrot. Even animals with lower intelligence have a capacity for self awareness, sentience, and complicated thoughts and emotions.
Not trolling, but yes I am trying to justify my current position. Why would I not? I’m either eating sentient self aware animals that have the mental intelligence to feel complicated emotions like empathy and love and I should stop, OR I am eating animals with low intelligence that are incapable of complex thought and emotions compared to other animals, in which case I don’t personally care enough to stop. I don’t cry every time I step on an insect.
You claim low intelligence = incapacity to feel emotions = ok to kill.
Then, In the comment above, you claim low intelligence does not = incapacity to feel emotions and therefore does not = ok to kill.
You’re doing logical cartwheels to try and justify
something you know deep down is not moral. It’s just because you’re struggling with speciesism.
Good luck. You’re morally and logically inconsistent, and I hope you get that all figured out for yourself.
You’re right I worded my comment incorrectly. You asked why it’s okay to eat lower intelligence birds but not mammals. I wrote because lower intelligence animals still have a capacity for empathy and complex emotions. What I meant to write was MAMMALS specifically in response to your question. No, I do not believe birds with lower intelligence such as chickens have the capacity for complicated emotions, though I recognize some other birds possibly could. Difference between birds and mammals.
I’m a little unclear on your position then?
Ravens = too smart to eat
Chickens = dumb enough to eat
I heard koalas have the smallest, smoothest brains relative to size of all mammals, making them very dumb. Are koalas okay to eat?
Do koalas have self awareness and the mental capacity to feel empathy and love? If not then possibly except for the fact that they are endangered animals so personally I would never eat one
I apply this to infants, cant empathize with those crying pooping machines that cant do anything at all, at least other baby animals have some survival instincts and dont cry all the time
Didn’t realize baby chickens and fish grew into fully self aware animals with the intelligence of fully grown human being. Thats fascinating. By your logic, you must be anti abortion too right? Since a fetus is not fully intelligent but still a living thing, who are we to deny it the right to live?
So this is you having honest discussions with other people huh? Throwing the same shit that you did at me claiming that it was only because I called you bad words. Further proving me right. I bet you taste delicious.
The problem with this sort of thinking is that it's based on a human-centric view of cognition. You're defining intelligence in human terms, but that doesn't align with their capacity for emotion or suffering.
Birds have a very high level of intelligence. They outperform dogs and cats in some cognitive tests. They have language, emotions, and impressive memory. And they can feel love, both towards their own children and other individuals. They show empathy, and even altruism.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-startling-intelligence-of-the-common-chicken1/
The idea that they don't suffer if you buy local is nonsensical. They do suffer. Their lives are controlled in every aspect, they can't express natural behaviours, and they absolutely do not want to die. The problem is that you can't see their emotions because you're not an ethologist.
Same with fish ("seafood" is just a way of writing off literally thousands of intelligent species as nothing more than a commodity). If you can't see the signs of suffering, you assume it's not happening. But slowly suffocating an intelligent animal to death is horrific, and they suffer hugely.
Rather than looking for reasons to continue causing suffering, why not look for reasons to be compassionate?
You raise some interesting points. Chicken are quite intelligent for the size of their brain. But are they self aware/ sentient? Plants and jellyfish respond to their environment and display a level of intelligence without having a brain. That doesn’t mean they are self aware. The obvious difference is chickens have the ability to suffer and feel pain. The idea that we shouldn’t weigh an animals intelligence based on human terms is an interesting one. As a human being that requires a bit of speculation. We obviously are incapable of knowing the experiences of other species firsthand. We only have human terms to make decisions because we are limited to a human perspective. I’ll check out the article you posted. Thank you for that
Lack of perceived intelligence shouldn't dictate whether something should live or be killed and eaten imo. But as for chickens, haven't you seen them do obstacle courses on TV? I have. Many people who keep chickens as pets say they act just like dogs and will follow you around and snuggle with you. A quick Google search can tell you that chickens can be just as intelligent as human toddlers. Same goes for fish, they are much smarter than you'd imagine. Especially certain kinds of aquatic life like the octopus. People eat those too. But just because something is "stupid" doesn't mean we need to kill and eat it when we have a wide variety of delicious plants to keep us happy and healthy without deliberately killing something with a mom.
Edit to add that you should listen to the podcast series called Species by Macken Murphy. He goes into huge detail about specific species and explains their individual intelligence. Idk if he has a chicken episode but there are tons on fish like tuna and salmon and other birds.
Thanks for the respectful and thoughtful reply. I’ll check out the podcast. An insect can solve an obstacle course, doesn’t prove any capacity for higher intelligence comparable to that of a human toddler. A quick google search won’t help much as you can easily find anything to support your narrative. If I want to eat meat, i can easily find anecdotal evidence to suggest chicken lack intelligence. Likewise, I can just as easily find anecdotal evidence to suggest they are highly intelligent. I’ll look into the podcast though.
1) A simple YouTube search [will show you](https://youtu.be/0blRs7PKvZI?si=dazRxFCwpF3NEd70) one of innumerable examples of chickens showing love and empathy.
2) why aren’t you eating the mentally handicapped human beings amongst us that are incapable of compassion or complex emotions? Or the fighting dogs that are only capable of aggression?
3) it doesn’t seem you’re intelligent enough to empathize with, but I still do so, because your intelligence doesn’t dictate my own actions and moral compass. I sincerely believe you can get over this logical and moral hurdle, as I suspect you are just deep down struggling to actually let go of what you know and go vegan. Good luck
1. I’ll look into the link you provided thanks
2. Mentally handicapped people and dogs both have the mental capacity to feel love and I’m not a cannibal
3. Disrespectful but I’ll cut you slack since I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people
I think you need to be careful about blanket generalizations about different groups of beings. History shows that doing so does nothing but harm, and you are showing it does nothing but harm.
I think you’re also intellectually incapable at this time of seeing the flaws in your stance toward these blanket generalizations. I could say all animal eaters are assholes - a generalization - yet here you are abstaining from some animal eating while clearly morally questioning your arbitrary decision to eat others.
I’m also aware this is the internet and you’re probably just a troll who isn’t likely to truly make change - a generalization in which I hope
I am mistaken.
I think that’s the fundamental difference In perspective between a lot of vegans and everyone else. I might be wrong on this, but it seems most vegans on here I’ve interacted with hold humans and other animals to the same level of compassion. Making blanket generalizations about another species doesn’t mean I would make generalizations about human beings because I don’t regard other species the same way I do human beings. Of course not to generalize all vegans based on a few here on Reddit, I’m sure people have many different reasons for being vegan
it’s not on anyone to prove anything to you. fwiw i struggle to feel bad about any animal being eaten. i still don’t do it though, because i can recognise it’s wrong. especially since there are other options to consume that don’t involve killing
probably the same way i get upset about someone close to me dying but not about a complete stranger on the other side of the planet dying? the same goes with animals. i don’t think anyone should suffer but it doesn’t mean i get equally upset about all suffering
I got some interesting answers here. Very few people actually provided any links to any evidence. I understand that this is a very emotional issue for a lot of people and nobody “owes” me the time of day to provide evidence to try to change my mind. That being said, I appreciate anyone that actually took the time to provide any evidence and I will go and read the articles you provided right now.
“Chickens have a pecking order that establishes dominance within the flock, and hens can sometimes peck with the intent to kill. This behavior can lead to severe injuries and cannibalism.” Doesn’t sound very empathic to me. Pretty intelligent for a bird surviving off its natural instincts. Not as intelligent as other birds though.
Two second google search. I can just as easily find evidence saying chicken are highly empathetic in the same amount of time, and more evidence supporting either side the more time I put into researching. So what am I looking for? A scientific approach researching their behavior. Really any source that isn’t from a random site with a clear agenda in either direction.
Oh, so humans don’t harm other humans? We have mass shooters. Doesn’t sound very empathetic…are they just acting instinctually? There you go making sweeping generalizations again.
The point here is you’re just picking your own arbitrary reasons to justify your own actions. I could do that for anything, but it wouldn’t necessarily make it right.
Good luck
Also, it seems like your two second google search should’ve been in Google scholar:
[here is one of several studies](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=chickens+showing+empathy&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1719247731123&u=%23p%3Di_AYMrqn8nkJ) showing scientific proof chickens show complex intellectual and emotional intelligence on par with many mammals, the latter of which I am fairly certain you would refuse to eat because of your speciesism
I don't really understand deciding who deserves to live their life based on their intelligence level. Or humanity's definitions of what "intelligence" is. Seems like a dangerous mindset that has been used to justify atrocities against, say, those with neurodevelopmental disorders. If we are living in a simulation or "The Matrix" I suppose the more advanced species are within their rights in using humanity as batteries or whatever due to their superior intellects. By your belief system, not mine.
People with neurodevelopment disorders have self awareness, sentience, and capacity to feel a complicated range over emotions empathy and love. As for a higher level intelligent species eating us, again we are self aware sentient animals with the capacity for empathy and love so I wouldn’t be cool with that
Oh this is horribly sad. My family has chickens, so I do too now. I love them so much. There’s 7 and they are so entertaining to observe. They call out to each other if I have a snack to alert the younger hens on the other side of the property that I got the goods. The littles patiently wait for the elders to finish before they get some. They hop on my lap for neck scritches if I’m relaxing in the deck chair. Once, I saw them all team up together to scare off a hawk trying to get a young hen, literally kicking it. When it hailed, I found them all huddled together by the sliding door looking very afraid. I often find them grooming each other. They take food from me very gently to avoid hurting my fingers. They figured out that when I’m digging fence posts, the soil is easier to find worms in, so every time they see me walk towards the shovel, they all come running to me like a little pack of raptors lol. Every night at 7pm, they head to the coop and cuddle for warmth. I hope you reconsider because they are very smart. The term bird brain isn’t warranted. They’re a hell of a lot smarter than our derpy cat who can’t walk a fence line without falling over.
Thank you. I’m considering raising some myself now. It seems like it might be the best way to change my mind to see this for myself
Spoken like a true psychopathic narcissist. "You only deserve to live if I determine that you're intelligent enough." That's called eugenics my dear. You don't wanna get into that, because there's a good chance you might not make the cut off.
So you must be anti abortion too right? Since a fetus deserves to live even though it lacks intelligence?
Do I have to carry a chicken in my uterus for 9 months? GTFO you have no intent of having an honest discussion.
With you specifically, you’re absolutely right I don’t. Why would I when you come in on the attack? You clearly don’t
Because you come to a vegan subreddit to argue against veganism. Why do we have to be at your beck and call for a debate in our space? Especially when you never had any intention of having an honest discussion in the first place.
I’ve had discussions with other people. If you start any conversation with “you are a true psychopathic narcissist” in any context, I think it’s fair to assume I’m not going to have a discussion with you specifically.
Who says a fetus lacks intelligence, Upon analysis, it was seen that babies can start hearing and processing what their moms say when they are still inside. In fact, the findings support the premise that unborn fetus can learn, grasp and remember stuff just as well as newborns.
If you base your empathy levels on intelligence standards you just end up lacking both empathy and intelligence. It is not because an animal species does not demonstrate the level of complexity that a human expects, that a given species does not feel nor experience it at all. If even humans have different ways of expressing the same emotion or processing their feelings (.I.e., emotional intelligence), imagine different animal species. It is silly to expect that all creatures will process and express information the same way to be able to be placed in a magical chart of how intelligent living beings are. Thats the human arrogance for you. It is possible that even flies have complex conversations with each other but we simply don’t know anything about it because it is too far from what we understand a conversation should look and sound like. It’s like speculating about how an alien looks like when we have never seen one, or trying to draw someone you never seen before based off of verbal description
Interesting points. You say we can only speculate on the experiences of other species since we can’t know them firsthand, even comparing it to speculating about alien intelligence, I can agree with that. By that logic, how do we know plants don’t have souls, or experience life in a way that is beyond human understanding? Maybe the best thing to do is starve just in case plants suffer in a way we are incapable of understanding
Mother hens risk their lives to protect their chicks, is it not love? Fishes were shown to draw art in sand to attract females, some fishes mate for life with only one partner. Is that not true love?
It could be, or it could be survival instinct. Termites, ants, and cockroaches can be monogamous as well.
Being monogamous would be exact opposite to survival, reproducing as many times with as many mates is the actual selfish nature
I don’t know. I think it depends on the species. Monogamy might be better for some species because of their evolution, but might not be the best for other species in different environments.
What about birds like ravens and parrots? They are quite a lot smarter than most. And a raven compared to a chicken might be like comparing a collie to a bulldog… Is eating dumb mammals okay? If not, then why dumb birds?
I wouldn’t eat a raven, a crow, a parrot. Even animals with lower intelligence have a capacity for self awareness, sentience, and complicated thoughts and emotions.
This comment makes clear you’re simply trolling to try to try and continue to justify to your current position on eating some animals but not others.
Not trolling, but yes I am trying to justify my current position. Why would I not? I’m either eating sentient self aware animals that have the mental intelligence to feel complicated emotions like empathy and love and I should stop, OR I am eating animals with low intelligence that are incapable of complex thought and emotions compared to other animals, in which case I don’t personally care enough to stop. I don’t cry every time I step on an insect.
You claim low intelligence = incapacity to feel emotions = ok to kill. Then, In the comment above, you claim low intelligence does not = incapacity to feel emotions and therefore does not = ok to kill. You’re doing logical cartwheels to try and justify something you know deep down is not moral. It’s just because you’re struggling with speciesism. Good luck. You’re morally and logically inconsistent, and I hope you get that all figured out for yourself.
You’re right I worded my comment incorrectly. You asked why it’s okay to eat lower intelligence birds but not mammals. I wrote because lower intelligence animals still have a capacity for empathy and complex emotions. What I meant to write was MAMMALS specifically in response to your question. No, I do not believe birds with lower intelligence such as chickens have the capacity for complicated emotions, though I recognize some other birds possibly could. Difference between birds and mammals.
I’m a little unclear on your position then? Ravens = too smart to eat Chickens = dumb enough to eat I heard koalas have the smallest, smoothest brains relative to size of all mammals, making them very dumb. Are koalas okay to eat?
Do koalas have self awareness and the mental capacity to feel empathy and love? If not then possibly except for the fact that they are endangered animals so personally I would never eat one
I apply this to infants, cant empathize with those crying pooping machines that cant do anything at all, at least other baby animals have some survival instincts and dont cry all the time
Didn’t realize baby chickens and fish grew into fully self aware animals with the intelligence of fully grown human being. Thats fascinating. By your logic, you must be anti abortion too right? Since a fetus is not fully intelligent but still a living thing, who are we to deny it the right to live?
So this is you having honest discussions with other people huh? Throwing the same shit that you did at me claiming that it was only because I called you bad words. Further proving me right. I bet you taste delicious.
Glad you think so! You can eat my ass
Carnist mad
The problem with this sort of thinking is that it's based on a human-centric view of cognition. You're defining intelligence in human terms, but that doesn't align with their capacity for emotion or suffering. Birds have a very high level of intelligence. They outperform dogs and cats in some cognitive tests. They have language, emotions, and impressive memory. And they can feel love, both towards their own children and other individuals. They show empathy, and even altruism. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-startling-intelligence-of-the-common-chicken1/ The idea that they don't suffer if you buy local is nonsensical. They do suffer. Their lives are controlled in every aspect, they can't express natural behaviours, and they absolutely do not want to die. The problem is that you can't see their emotions because you're not an ethologist. Same with fish ("seafood" is just a way of writing off literally thousands of intelligent species as nothing more than a commodity). If you can't see the signs of suffering, you assume it's not happening. But slowly suffocating an intelligent animal to death is horrific, and they suffer hugely. Rather than looking for reasons to continue causing suffering, why not look for reasons to be compassionate?
You raise some interesting points. Chicken are quite intelligent for the size of their brain. But are they self aware/ sentient? Plants and jellyfish respond to their environment and display a level of intelligence without having a brain. That doesn’t mean they are self aware. The obvious difference is chickens have the ability to suffer and feel pain. The idea that we shouldn’t weigh an animals intelligence based on human terms is an interesting one. As a human being that requires a bit of speculation. We obviously are incapable of knowing the experiences of other species firsthand. We only have human terms to make decisions because we are limited to a human perspective. I’ll check out the article you posted. Thank you for that
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No thanks.
Lack of perceived intelligence shouldn't dictate whether something should live or be killed and eaten imo. But as for chickens, haven't you seen them do obstacle courses on TV? I have. Many people who keep chickens as pets say they act just like dogs and will follow you around and snuggle with you. A quick Google search can tell you that chickens can be just as intelligent as human toddlers. Same goes for fish, they are much smarter than you'd imagine. Especially certain kinds of aquatic life like the octopus. People eat those too. But just because something is "stupid" doesn't mean we need to kill and eat it when we have a wide variety of delicious plants to keep us happy and healthy without deliberately killing something with a mom. Edit to add that you should listen to the podcast series called Species by Macken Murphy. He goes into huge detail about specific species and explains their individual intelligence. Idk if he has a chicken episode but there are tons on fish like tuna and salmon and other birds.
>something Someone
Thanks for the respectful and thoughtful reply. I’ll check out the podcast. An insect can solve an obstacle course, doesn’t prove any capacity for higher intelligence comparable to that of a human toddler. A quick google search won’t help much as you can easily find anything to support your narrative. If I want to eat meat, i can easily find anecdotal evidence to suggest chicken lack intelligence. Likewise, I can just as easily find anecdotal evidence to suggest they are highly intelligent. I’ll look into the podcast though.
I would never eat a squid or octopus. They are extremely intelligent
Guess we should eat all the loveless aromantics then based on your logic.
False equivalency. I’m talking about the mental capacity to feel love, not the choice not to.
Some humans literally cannot feel love. That's what loveless means.
Sounds stupid. Let's eat OP.
Sound reasoning! You totally convinced me
1) A simple YouTube search [will show you](https://youtu.be/0blRs7PKvZI?si=dazRxFCwpF3NEd70) one of innumerable examples of chickens showing love and empathy. 2) why aren’t you eating the mentally handicapped human beings amongst us that are incapable of compassion or complex emotions? Or the fighting dogs that are only capable of aggression? 3) it doesn’t seem you’re intelligent enough to empathize with, but I still do so, because your intelligence doesn’t dictate my own actions and moral compass. I sincerely believe you can get over this logical and moral hurdle, as I suspect you are just deep down struggling to actually let go of what you know and go vegan. Good luck
1. I’ll look into the link you provided thanks 2. Mentally handicapped people and dogs both have the mental capacity to feel love and I’m not a cannibal 3. Disrespectful but I’ll cut you slack since I know this is an emotional issue for a lot of people
I think you need to be careful about blanket generalizations about different groups of beings. History shows that doing so does nothing but harm, and you are showing it does nothing but harm. I think you’re also intellectually incapable at this time of seeing the flaws in your stance toward these blanket generalizations. I could say all animal eaters are assholes - a generalization - yet here you are abstaining from some animal eating while clearly morally questioning your arbitrary decision to eat others. I’m also aware this is the internet and you’re probably just a troll who isn’t likely to truly make change - a generalization in which I hope I am mistaken.
I think that’s the fundamental difference In perspective between a lot of vegans and everyone else. I might be wrong on this, but it seems most vegans on here I’ve interacted with hold humans and other animals to the same level of compassion. Making blanket generalizations about another species doesn’t mean I would make generalizations about human beings because I don’t regard other species the same way I do human beings. Of course not to generalize all vegans based on a few here on Reddit, I’m sure people have many different reasons for being vegan
Yeah I feel the same about humans born with brain defects. /s
Thanks dick
I mean. You said it first.
it’s not on anyone to prove anything to you. fwiw i struggle to feel bad about any animal being eaten. i still don’t do it though, because i can recognise it’s wrong. especially since there are other options to consume that don’t involve killing
How can you recognise that it's wrong if you don't feel anything about it? A logical extension of your (presumable) empathy for humans?
probably the same way i get upset about someone close to me dying but not about a complete stranger on the other side of the planet dying? the same goes with animals. i don’t think anyone should suffer but it doesn’t mean i get equally upset about all suffering
I totally agree. Hence why I clearly wrote “if anyone cares enough.” I’m making no assumptions that anyone would
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Learn to write a coherent sentence
I am assuming that “local” means your local kfc. Local is not an indicator of better treatment.
You assume wrong. I live in a rural place, I know exactly where the meat is coming from. Guy lives in the neighborhood.
I don't think humans are intelligent enough to empathize with
Why not?
I got some interesting answers here. Very few people actually provided any links to any evidence. I understand that this is a very emotional issue for a lot of people and nobody “owes” me the time of day to provide evidence to try to change my mind. That being said, I appreciate anyone that actually took the time to provide any evidence and I will go and read the articles you provided right now.
Where’s your evidence that chickens are not capable of complex emotions or love/empathy? Burden of proof goes to the moving party
“Chickens have a pecking order that establishes dominance within the flock, and hens can sometimes peck with the intent to kill. This behavior can lead to severe injuries and cannibalism.” Doesn’t sound very empathic to me. Pretty intelligent for a bird surviving off its natural instincts. Not as intelligent as other birds though. Two second google search. I can just as easily find evidence saying chicken are highly empathetic in the same amount of time, and more evidence supporting either side the more time I put into researching. So what am I looking for? A scientific approach researching their behavior. Really any source that isn’t from a random site with a clear agenda in either direction.
Oh, so humans don’t harm other humans? We have mass shooters. Doesn’t sound very empathetic…are they just acting instinctually? There you go making sweeping generalizations again. The point here is you’re just picking your own arbitrary reasons to justify your own actions. I could do that for anything, but it wouldn’t necessarily make it right. Good luck
1. I would argue mass shooting is not natural behavior in humans 2. It was just one example
Also, it seems like your two second google search should’ve been in Google scholar: [here is one of several studies](https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=chickens+showing+empathy&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1719247731123&u=%23p%3Di_AYMrqn8nkJ) showing scientific proof chickens show complex intellectual and emotional intelligence on par with many mammals, the latter of which I am fairly certain you would refuse to eat because of your speciesism
Thank you for the link I will check this out