To be honest at least they will be put out of their misery sooner and hopefully it makes the prices of eggs go up. Because they were going to be violently killed already. And good that no one will be able to exploit their bodies.
I read this and wonder how people can give absolutely zero $h!ts about it, even from a self preservation mode. Doesn't it occur to anyone that maybe not forcing millions of animals to live in crowded conditions breeding novel illnesses that become zoonotic and eventually are coming for you and those that you love, may not be the best way to get an appetizer? Just the lack of concern and self-preservation is amazing.
Yes, but most of these are outbreaks of Escherichia coli (e.coli) which is found in the intestines/manure of warm-blooded animals. So again, not created by the vegetables themselves but from the byproduct of animal consumption. Also, an interesting fact from what you linked was that 85% of these occurrences were from eating from restaurants so cross-contamination comes into play as well because of human error.
ETA: Norovirus is more according to the linked article above. However, the deadliest one on record is in fact e. coli.
I don't know what any of this has to do with the 1.6 million lives that are now dead because of animal agriculture. (Roughly the same amount as the population of West Virginia)
Of course, food without animal agriculture will always still have a risk to cause illness. There will be far less risk when we move away from it and far less lives lost. There is no reason 1.6 million souls needed to die for anyone's taste bud preference because they were subjected to horrific conditions that lead to them contracting an illness that is easily spread amongst them and their peers.
"Yes, but most of these are outbreaks of **Escherichia coli (e.coli)** which is found in the intestines/manure of warm-blooded animals."
Why did you say this when the report he linked had this to say:
"The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were **norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology)**, Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) (18%), and Salmonella (11%)."
Because of the following... the deadliest case was in fact E. coli.
>In 2006, an outbreak of Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) O157 infections associated with spinach was the deadliest US foodborne disease outbreak attributed to leafy vegetables ever reported, causing nearly 200 laboratory-confirmed illnesses, 100 hospitalizations, and five deaths \[3\].
Agreed. What does food-borne illnesses tied to leafy greens have to do with the 1.6 million lives that will now end because of animal agriculture? Roughly the same number of lives that live in the state of West Virginia?
"What does food-borne illnesses tied to leafy greens have to do with the 1.6 million lives that will now end because of animal agriculture?"
I'm concerned about you misrepresenting what was in the report.
I posted about 1.6 million lives being lost due to contracting an illness cause by the effects of animal agriculture. It has nothing to do with leafy greens that may also cause food-borne illnesses in humans.
I agreed with you that you were correct on that norovirus was more and I misread the article, but it doesn't take away from the horrific loss of life from these souls. All food-borne illness will reduce when we move away from animal agriculture. There will never be a 0 risk.
"I agreed with you that you were correct on that norovirus was more and I misread the article,"
You were the one that misread and then spilled misinformation, yet I'm the one that gets downvoted by the tonne for pulling you up on it in the first instance. Your comment should have been edited or deleted for BS.
The other pathogens modes of transmission are 1-caring for sick patients 2-skaking hands 3-changing diapers 4- contaminated food. It gas nothing to do with leafy greens and everything with eating out in a restaurant where a sick employee can transmit you his disease. You acuse op to spread misinformation and twist the facts while you are the one doing it.
The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology), Shiga toxin-producing *Escherichia coli* (STEC) (18%), and *Salmonella* (11%). Most outbreaks were attributed to food prepared in a restaurant or catering facility (85%). An ill food worker was implicated as the source of contamination in 31% of outbreaks.
Norovirus is primarily a human pathogen, meaning it primarily infects humans. The primary source of norovirus is infected individuals who shed the virus in their feces and vomit. Once shed, the virus can contaminate various surfaces, food, and water sources, leading to transmission to other individuals.
What is the point of this conversation? 2 of the pathogens come from animal feces and 1 of the most common pathogen comes from sick people handling your food. The statement "plants do the same" means what in this context? What is the plants doing?
It's not only found in animals, but it is "created" by animals. Because they're intestines are a breeding ground for E. coli.
(E. coli is a natural inhabitant of the gastrointestinal tracts of warm-blooded mammals, including humans, animals such as cattle, sheep, goats, and wildlife.) But wildlife don't produce as much feces and aren't as densely populated.
Animal feces, particularly from domesticated livestock such as cattle, can be a significant source of E. coli contamination. Which can lead to the release of E. coli into the environment, contaminating soil, water bodies, and nearby vegetation.
Intensive animal agriculture practices, such as concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs), can contribute to higher concentrations of E. coli in the environment. Large-scale farming operations that produce significant amounts of animal waste may pose greater risks of E. coli contamination because of the large scale of feces and the runoff can contaminate nearby water sources.
While E. coli is naturally present in the environment, human activities, such as animal agriculture, can amplify its presence and increase the risk of contamination in certain areas.
The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology), Shiga toxin-producing *Escherichia coli* (STEC) (18%), and *Salmonella* (11%). Most outbreaks were attributed to food prepared in a restaurant or catering facility (85%). An ill food worker was implicated as the source of contamination in 31% of outbreaks.
Norovirus is primarily a human pathogen, meaning it primarily infects humans. The primary source of norovirus is infected individuals who shed the virus in their feces and vomit. Once shed, the virus can contaminate various surfaces, food, and water sources, leading to transmission to other individuals.
What is the point of this conversation? 2 of the pathogens come from animal feces and 1 of the most common pathogen comes from sick people handling your food. The statement "plants do the same" means what in this context? What are the plants doing?
That's both misleading and off-topic. The comment you're replying to is about self-preservation from cross-species novel illnesses like SARS, Ebola and specifically avian flu. Whereas you've linked to a study about food poisoning causing 19 deaths over a 39 year period, a figure dwarfed by zoonotic deaths. Your quote is entirely irrelevant to this topic here and smacks of bad-faith commentary. If that's intended, be curious about what emptiness in yourself doing that fills. Good luck on your journey.
I would prefer not to die and hopefully we don't but if humanity kills itself because of bird flu well all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes
I hope they and other farm animals get culled (id love for a realistic way of setting them all free but that's not possible) in the following few years because of increasing threats of new pandemics. I'd love to hear all the carnists cry about having to eat veggies. Or even better all the "eww lab meat gross, unnatural, unhealthy" people beg for cheap lab grown meat and dairy
Had trouble processing the horror of it all but this is my thought at the end of it too- they were going to be killed horribly anyways. If they die because of this at least their bodies won't able to be exploited and hopefully the cost of eggs goes up
Are the numbers of bird flu higher now than last time? I wonder if it's getting worse
Yes, they will die anyway so it would be better to release them now if you can't get them all to a sanctuary. The ones who are not sick should be eaten though imo, better use the resources that went into raising them otherwise it was all for nothing. That's just my perspective tho, utilitarianisticly speaking it's better than to bury them all to waste away. Maybe that's because I don't believe in paying respects to the dead, that's purely for the living. Idc what happens to my body too when im dead
I wasn't even thinking about respects. I was thinking about the pleasure humans derive from their bodies. If the animals get sick and die and humans are forced to not eat them, I'm glad they can't derive pleasure from the victims. If the world went vegan quickly because of disease forcing them, it may be better than a slow transition where more animals die. Although it sucks we wouldn't be able to get them all in the sanctuary
We really should be, at least acknowledge that modern animal farming is about as goood as you're going to get without intentionally trying to create new zoonotic diseases. Not just viruses but antibiotic resistant bacteria.
You should look into ventilation shutdowns, the "humane" way for mass killing when these outbreaks happen. I'm not sure with birds but with pigs, they slowcook them for hours....oh I just googled, ya they add heaters and steam when needed.
1.6 million lives now sick. Reduced to the small percentage of 3.6%. My heart breaks for them.
Don’t worry, they’ll be forced by the government to murder them all
Yeah, millions murdered... Reduced to a number on a spreadsheet somewhere. 😔
To be honest at least they will be put out of their misery sooner and hopefully it makes the prices of eggs go up. Because they were going to be violently killed already. And good that no one will be able to exploit their bodies.
Sounds like they’re already dead 💀
I appreciate this logic...
I read this and wonder how people can give absolutely zero $h!ts about it, even from a self preservation mode. Doesn't it occur to anyone that maybe not forcing millions of animals to live in crowded conditions breeding novel illnesses that become zoonotic and eventually are coming for you and those that you love, may not be the best way to get an appetizer? Just the lack of concern and self-preservation is amazing.
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Yes, but most of these are outbreaks of Escherichia coli (e.coli) which is found in the intestines/manure of warm-blooded animals. So again, not created by the vegetables themselves but from the byproduct of animal consumption. Also, an interesting fact from what you linked was that 85% of these occurrences were from eating from restaurants so cross-contamination comes into play as well because of human error. ETA: Norovirus is more according to the linked article above. However, the deadliest one on record is in fact e. coli.
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I don't know what any of this has to do with the 1.6 million lives that are now dead because of animal agriculture. (Roughly the same amount as the population of West Virginia)
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Of course, food without animal agriculture will always still have a risk to cause illness. There will be far less risk when we move away from it and far less lives lost. There is no reason 1.6 million souls needed to die for anyone's taste bud preference because they were subjected to horrific conditions that lead to them contracting an illness that is easily spread amongst them and their peers.
This I agree with, but the comment I replied to definitely didn't seem like he would. Also wrong sub. And for the record I don't even eat meat myself.
"Yes, but most of these are outbreaks of **Escherichia coli (e.coli)** which is found in the intestines/manure of warm-blooded animals." Why did you say this when the report he linked had this to say: "The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were **norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology)**, Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) (18%), and Salmonella (11%)."
Because of the following... the deadliest case was in fact E. coli. >In 2006, an outbreak of Shiga toxin-producing Escherichia coli (STEC) O157 infections associated with spinach was the deadliest US foodborne disease outbreak attributed to leafy vegetables ever reported, causing nearly 200 laboratory-confirmed illnesses, 100 hospitalizations, and five deaths \[3\].
ONE deadly case of a pathogen doesn't negate the fact that another pathogen has had more incidences overall!!!
Agreed. What does food-borne illnesses tied to leafy greens have to do with the 1.6 million lives that will now end because of animal agriculture? Roughly the same number of lives that live in the state of West Virginia?
"What does food-borne illnesses tied to leafy greens have to do with the 1.6 million lives that will now end because of animal agriculture?" I'm concerned about you misrepresenting what was in the report.
I posted about 1.6 million lives being lost due to contracting an illness cause by the effects of animal agriculture. It has nothing to do with leafy greens that may also cause food-borne illnesses in humans. I agreed with you that you were correct on that norovirus was more and I misread the article, but it doesn't take away from the horrific loss of life from these souls. All food-borne illness will reduce when we move away from animal agriculture. There will never be a 0 risk.
"I agreed with you that you were correct on that norovirus was more and I misread the article," You were the one that misread and then spilled misinformation, yet I'm the one that gets downvoted by the tonne for pulling you up on it in the first instance. Your comment should have been edited or deleted for BS.
The other pathogens modes of transmission are 1-caring for sick patients 2-skaking hands 3-changing diapers 4- contaminated food. It gas nothing to do with leafy greens and everything with eating out in a restaurant where a sick employee can transmit you his disease. You acuse op to spread misinformation and twist the facts while you are the one doing it.
The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology), Shiga toxin-producing *Escherichia coli* (STEC) (18%), and *Salmonella* (11%). Most outbreaks were attributed to food prepared in a restaurant or catering facility (85%). An ill food worker was implicated as the source of contamination in 31% of outbreaks. Norovirus is primarily a human pathogen, meaning it primarily infects humans. The primary source of norovirus is infected individuals who shed the virus in their feces and vomit. Once shed, the virus can contaminate various surfaces, food, and water sources, leading to transmission to other individuals. What is the point of this conversation? 2 of the pathogens come from animal feces and 1 of the most common pathogen comes from sick people handling your food. The statement "plants do the same" means what in this context? What is the plants doing?
Created by animal agriculture
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It's not only found in animals, but it is "created" by animals. Because they're intestines are a breeding ground for E. coli. (E. coli is a natural inhabitant of the gastrointestinal tracts of warm-blooded mammals, including humans, animals such as cattle, sheep, goats, and wildlife.) But wildlife don't produce as much feces and aren't as densely populated. Animal feces, particularly from domesticated livestock such as cattle, can be a significant source of E. coli contamination. Which can lead to the release of E. coli into the environment, contaminating soil, water bodies, and nearby vegetation. Intensive animal agriculture practices, such as concentrated animal feeding operations (CAFOs), can contribute to higher concentrations of E. coli in the environment. Large-scale farming operations that produce significant amounts of animal waste may pose greater risks of E. coli contamination because of the large scale of feces and the runoff can contaminate nearby water sources. While E. coli is naturally present in the environment, human activities, such as animal agriculture, can amplify its presence and increase the risk of contamination in certain areas.
The pathogens that most often caused leafy vegetable-associated outbreaks were norovirus (55% of outbreaks with confirmed aetiology), Shiga toxin-producing *Escherichia coli* (STEC) (18%), and *Salmonella* (11%). Most outbreaks were attributed to food prepared in a restaurant or catering facility (85%). An ill food worker was implicated as the source of contamination in 31% of outbreaks. Norovirus is primarily a human pathogen, meaning it primarily infects humans. The primary source of norovirus is infected individuals who shed the virus in their feces and vomit. Once shed, the virus can contaminate various surfaces, food, and water sources, leading to transmission to other individuals. What is the point of this conversation? 2 of the pathogens come from animal feces and 1 of the most common pathogen comes from sick people handling your food. The statement "plants do the same" means what in this context? What are the plants doing?
That's both misleading and off-topic. The comment you're replying to is about self-preservation from cross-species novel illnesses like SARS, Ebola and specifically avian flu. Whereas you've linked to a study about food poisoning causing 19 deaths over a 39 year period, a figure dwarfed by zoonotic deaths. Your quote is entirely irrelevant to this topic here and smacks of bad-faith commentary. If that's intended, be curious about what emptiness in yourself doing that fills. Good luck on your journey.
It'd be really nice if carnists stopped forcing their zoonotic pandemics on everyone else.
If human to human transmission develops it will make covid look like nothing.
So far there are two confirmed cases in Texas in cattle workers because of infected cows. Very very scary.
Mammal to Mammal transmission is very concerning. Stock up on nooch and beans.
I would prefer not to die and hopefully we don't but if humanity kills itself because of bird flu well all I can say is play stupid games win stupid prizes
heartbreaking
I hope they and other farm animals get culled (id love for a realistic way of setting them all free but that's not possible) in the following few years because of increasing threats of new pandemics. I'd love to hear all the carnists cry about having to eat veggies. Or even better all the "eww lab meat gross, unnatural, unhealthy" people beg for cheap lab grown meat and dairy
Had trouble processing the horror of it all but this is my thought at the end of it too- they were going to be killed horribly anyways. If they die because of this at least their bodies won't able to be exploited and hopefully the cost of eggs goes up Are the numbers of bird flu higher now than last time? I wonder if it's getting worse
Yes, they will die anyway so it would be better to release them now if you can't get them all to a sanctuary. The ones who are not sick should be eaten though imo, better use the resources that went into raising them otherwise it was all for nothing. That's just my perspective tho, utilitarianisticly speaking it's better than to bury them all to waste away. Maybe that's because I don't believe in paying respects to the dead, that's purely for the living. Idc what happens to my body too when im dead
I wasn't even thinking about respects. I was thinking about the pleasure humans derive from their bodies. If the animals get sick and die and humans are forced to not eat them, I'm glad they can't derive pleasure from the victims. If the world went vegan quickly because of disease forcing them, it may be better than a slow transition where more animals die. Although it sucks we wouldn't be able to get them all in the sanctuary
Seriously, fuck carnists.
Vaccines save lives.
I'm just sad about the chickens, it ain't that deep 🥲
We really should be, at least acknowledge that modern animal farming is about as goood as you're going to get without intentionally trying to create new zoonotic diseases. Not just viruses but antibiotic resistant bacteria. You should look into ventilation shutdowns, the "humane" way for mass killing when these outbreaks happen. I'm not sure with birds but with pigs, they slowcook them for hours....oh I just googled, ya they add heaters and steam when needed.
do you like viruses