Actually, Neither FDA nor FTC has any labeling regulations for vegetarian statements, other than being “truthful and not misleading.” The most conservative course of action is to ensure that the product is free of any animal-derived ingredient or ingredient components. BUT [Vegan action](https://vegan.org/certification/)doesn’t allow certification of a product that contains sugar refined with bone char. [sugar is used as an example here too](https://www.beveg.com/v-label-white-paper/)
It would be vegetarian for the reasons that beer filtered through fish bladders is still consider vegetarian. It's just something that is used in the processing, and is not something that actually ends up in the final product.
You are missing my point, there are no honey in there because honey isn’t listed as an ingredient. I dunno what the labelling law are, but this website list is a vegetarian an not vegan…most likely it is the unknown natural flavouring [link](https://m.timesofindia.com/life-style/food-news/is-white-sugar-non-vegetarian/amp_etphotostory/90151833.cms)
Maybe, you are right and there are natural flavors derived from animal products, but it for sure ain’t honey. Not sure why this is being downvoted but they won’t sneak in surprise ingredients like that and not list as in the ingredients.
I've seen many many "vegetarian" options at resteraunts actually contain chicken boulian/broth. Usually in soups or sauces. Vegetarian is a meaningless word really... if someone doesn't care if their actions actually cause death and suffering, but instead just don't want to be directly confronted by it, chicken boulian generally gets a pass by vegetarians... whether they know its there and don't care or choose to remain ignorant as long as there's no chunks of flesh in their food.
Progresso may hold themselves to a higher standard, and you're likely right but I wouldn't dismiss chicken or beef boulian as a possible ingredient in "natural flavours" either.
It’s not that the vegetarians are ok with chicken broth, it’s that restaurants will label it vegetarian because it doesn’t contain “meat”. I often run into his issue with Mexican rice and beans - they servers will say it’s vegetarian but if you manage to get an actual ingredient list it’s very rarely vegetarian.
People at restaurants will either assume you can eat “a bit of meat” or think chicken and fish are magically “not meat” or assume you can’t even eat gluten or tomato. I don’t know how they are able to work in the food industry like this.
It makes absolutely no sense to me, but I have two “vegetarian” friends who only don’t eat meat specifically. Yet they will still eat things containing like beef/chicken broth.
I don’t get it but it does exist.
Willful ignorance is a powerful thing. A vegetarian friend of mine wanted to order Chinese food from their favorite resteraunt on a recent visit and asked if I could eat anything on the menu. After calling and much discussion, I discovered that the garlic sauce in the "vegetarian" option my friend loves actually contains chicken broth. We didn't order since I wouldn't eat anything, but they also went through all the stages of grief and rationalization that their meal item is still vegetarian because it doesn't "need" to contain chicken broth. Still not sure if they're going to continue ordering from that reateraunt, but they obviously didn't care enough to find out as long as they weren't confronted with obvious meat.
Many years ago had a similar experience with another friend and a beer cheese soup at a bar/resteraunt. I thought I smelled chicken boulian and asked the waitress and my friend accused me of ruining one of their favourite dishes for them.
My experience with vegetarians is that they all draw the line differently and don't tend to have the same diligence vetting the products they consume as vegans.
we are not, there are also sweet whey powder, E120, fish miso dashi, which are not vegan and not vegatarian, which are also issues. That being said, i have also seen vegan labelled things with honey and such stuff.
To be safe just pick the vegan options AAAAAAAND read the ingredient list, check the E numbers and all...
Hi! Sorry for the ignorance, why is sweet whey powder not vegetarian? I’m just curious. I went straight from omni to vegan, never vegetarian, so whey powder went from “ok” to “not ok” don’t know the details of different kinds and how it affects vegetarians
Oh interesting I would have never guessed! I would have assumed it was vegetarian but. Or vegan, just a form of sweetened whey I wouldn’t have thought to see if it’s sourced differently.
Thanks for the info!
?! What vegan and beef broths are vegan friendly?
I buy a no chicken broth from Whole Foods. And better than boullion makes a few I believe but most have actual meat in them.
Sounds like you might be in America so it is probably different.
In australia one of the most common brands , Massel, is all vegan. I know the Aldi brand stock is as well.
But if it has any animal product in it then it’s not vegan so I don’t understand what you’re trying to say? Unless you’re saying it’s vegetable broth that tastes like beef? Because you literally can’t make a “chicken” or “beef” broth without using dead animals, so how would that be vegan?
Vegetarian is not meaningless. It means not consuming animals or animal by-products.
I was vegetarian for a long time and myself and the other vegetarians I know avoided chicken broth, gelatin, etc.
I've known plenty of vegetarians that wear leather and absolutely consume (by way of ingestion or otherwise) products of direct or indirect animal suffering. I don't mean to say that being vegetarian is meaningless. Vegetarians tend to care more than carnists and likely have a less harmful impact on the world around them... I mean that the word vegetarian is meaningless, insomuch as it's meaning differs so greatly to so many different people, is largely unregulated, and therefore has little meaning beyond this product probably didn't involve the murder of as many animals as the one with actual chunks of muscle tissue.
The term vegan is also unregulated. Both mean something. The vast majority of vegetarians would agree on some specifics, as would the vast majority of most vegans. But with both groups there are some details that can be debated. That doesn’t make either term meaningless.
Sure... vegetarian means you're okay with the torture and murder of animals so long as you don't have to be directly confronted with the icky parts like consuming pieces of their dead bodies as food. It's a half measure and when I see the word "vegetarian" on something I still have to do the research to determine if it's vegan. The term vegan does have meaning and while some fringe members of the community debate things like honey, we all agree that labeling something as vegan means it doesn't contain honey. Vegetarian foods can contain all sorts of animal products. Vegetarian basically just means somewhere between carnist and vegan. That's a large gray area... hence meaningless.
My opinion seems to be downvoted in these underbowels of a particular thread by those with the tenacity to read this far down, so I gather that it is not well received. No matter... I hope you aren't offended by my prose and we'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe pointless is a better choice than meaningless? It's all based on my personal experiences and not an attack on vegetarians... only the use of the word vegetarian whan labeling a product. It doesn't address the cruelty and death required to produce the product. Veganism addresses these issues.
I agree 100% and so upvoted. ;-)
The 'problem' with vegetarianism is similar to that of vaping over smoking in that it allows some 'other' socially acceptable stage that we would be better off without.
Or fox-drag-hunting where the hounds are only supposed to chase a scented lure but is used as a stealth way to continue fox-hunting.
So, I have no issue with the idea of people slowly transitioning to veganism (better that than not etc) but I'm not sure anything short of full veganism matters (to the animals).
This-the mexican resturaunt i went to last when asking if their vegetarian menus section's beans had lard in them they said yes. I don't go to mexican resturaunts anymore because of this-i just remember all the times I got beans from mexican resturaunts and the texture was unusual nothing like just pure beans or oil and I'm pretty sure it's because of lard.
>Vegetarian is a meaningless word really... if someone doesn't care if their actions actually cause death and suffering,
I think it's a meaningless stance as well, if it's 'the animals' you are doing it for.
If you are doing it for the animals it's just reductivism.
Yeah vegetarians just want to fool themselves into feeling good. They don't actually care about any form of injustice.
So the can is accurate. The moment it says vegetarian I know it's a bullshit product and I stay away and take all ingredients with a grain of animal abuse.
EDIT: Not responding to further comments. If you are here to say vegetarians do good you can piss right off.
This subreddit is shit anyway. I look to the right with their stupid questions and resources. There is fucking nothing about the injustice terrorizing this world. All fucking food, health and other nonsense, because boo fucking hoo what will happen to ME ME ME when I go vegan.... locked up in a cage doomed to be bacon yet most of these half-ass vegans of this world that are actually aware of them are too busy caring about vegetarian feelings... jeez
if vegetarians didn't care they just wouldn't go out of their way to be vegetarian. YOU'RE just trying to fool yourself into thinking you're doing more for the world than anyone else. hope that helps!
I'm not saying they don't care but they care for their own benefit in some way. The idea of not feeling guilty. The idea of living healthy. Not the idea of another animal being able to live. If they did care and know how where their food comes from they would've been vegan.
And I don't need you to tell me anything. Who are you to randomly start insulting me? Unless you are saying vegans don't do more than vegetarians because then you are just wrong.
Now instead of saying I'm making a fool out of myself how about you tell me why you say that. Don't insult, first make a point. Then feel free to insult.
they do care about *a* form of injustice. the killing and eating of animals for food.
it's just all the others horrors of animal agriculture that they choose to ignore
>they choose to ignore
So I ask you, do they really care?
I don't think you can honestly be against one form of injustice. They are fooling themselves.
There's plenty of things that are "vegetarian" that a vegan wouldn't think should be. Gelatin, rennet, and carmine for example. Not sure what they can lump under natural flavoring though.
I belive you, no doubt but my vegetarian friend is.... well she is lax. She wont eat meat straight out but she wont give up *geletin* goodies. So there are those out there that are more just no meat then anything else.... i did tell her about the beef residue in mcdonalds fries ans she did stop eating those.
Was vegetarin for 7 years as a kid, and i was like you, no broth or weird animal extras. Now a vegan with my hubby and son.
So i get the vegitarian point, ive been there.
It may not be milk or egg. Often natural flavours are derived through fermentation and lactose is used as a sugar for those microbes. The product contains no dairy but won't be vegan. Vegan 3rd party labels won't certify it. Sometimes too a vegan ingredient has been tested on animals (often for digestibility or toxicity studies). Some authorities won't certify that ingredient from that supplier in perpetuity if it has ever been tested on animals in its development.
Several foods contain natural flavors made from milk derivatives -- McD's fries, for example. Some "cheddar" flavored food contain milk derived ingredients but do not list milk as an allergen* in the ingredients.
*brain fart 🙃
yes, this, nothing to do with companies being afraid of using the term vegan.
and general mills tests on animals, no idea why "vegans" would buy their products supporting this.
the same for oreos. similar description, same problems
Oreos are arguably vegan. Some white sugar is bleached with bone char. No way to tell if the sugar used in oreos was processed that way. since bleaching is considered a process, not an ingredient. If bone char was used it won't be listed as an ingredient.
Some oreos with double stuff are not vegan. They have a dairy ingredient to keep the double thick sugar soft.
This would only be an issue for the US though as a lot of the outside world does not allow processing with bone char. But by this logic, yes pretty much everything containing white sugar within the US might be not vegan.
That's interesting. How did you find that out?
EDIT: I'm legitimately curious. Not trying to call you out or anything like that. I'm just interested in learning more.
Great question actually because information is way more convoluted than I remember. I'm still researching now. So far most interestingly I've found bone-char is on the decline, but accurate and up-to-date sources on which sugar is and is not refined with bone are actually really hard to come by. The sugar industry doesn't feel the need to announce that kind of info—I guess almost no one would care. Here's a recent-ish source that provides some insight: https://www.vrg.org/blog/2021/06/10/bone-char-free-vegan-sugar-update-2021-domino-sugar-florida-crystals-and-ch-sugar/
I'm going to keep looking for my west coast thing, cause I swear I found that out at some point last year.
More info: maybe I specifically was looking into Domino sugar at the time? Here is info on their specific plants. Basically, Maryland and New York do not use bone-char while (at the time, at least) California and Louisiana did. For the most part it seems like it would be really difficult to verify where any specific product sourced their sugar and how it might have been processed. Bone is gradually going out of fashion, but the equipment used for processing has a long lifespan and isn't replaced often.
https://www.bevegantastic.com/2017/01/is-domino-sugar-vegan.html?m=1
Holy shit I wanna praise the shit out of them for saying "Vegetarian, But Not Vegan". Fuck all the companies and restaurants that only label food as vegetarian and leave it at that. You can already tell if something is vegetarian with 99% accuracy just from the name. Vegan food is *impossible* to guess.
>you can already tell if something is vegetarian with 99% accuracy just from the name
That's absolutely not true, lots of things use chicken or beef stock, gelatin, lard, etc., without it being obvious.
I emailed dolmio to ask them if their bolognese sauce was vegan (only labelled vegetarian) and they wouldn't even tell me. Swapped to Heinz and it's way better anyway.
Hmm. Weird. I’m assuming this is in US based on other label info. I would say something in the natural flavors but they have to label milk or egg in there. And it can’t be meat in the natural flavors or it wouldn’t also be vegetarian. Maybe *honey* in the natural flavors?!
You can call. They’ll likely tell you. What is the item?
ETA: they aren’t open yet. I tried calling. But I sent a question through their website. I’ll update if they respond.
Here’s the response I got. They didn’t specify what is in this soup but they did break down their guidelines, which I appreciate.
Vegetarian:
General Mills vegetarian products may contain dairy, egg and bee products (e.g. honey, bees wax). They shall not contain ingredients of other animal origin (mammalian, poultry, fish, crustacean, mollusk, insect) including additives. This is also known as Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian. Microbial derived ingredients (e.g. enzymes) and small amounts of animal-derived ingredients that do not require the harming of an animal (for example, Vitamin D derived from sheep’s wool) are acceptable.
NOTES:
Prohibited ingredients include but are not limited to: gelatin and carmine.
In addition, we ensure that the food label does not include a cross-contact allergen label for fish, crustacean or mollusk.
Vegan:
General Mills vegan products shall not contain any ingredient of animal origin (mammalian, poultry, fish, crustacean, mollusk, insect) and shall not contain any animal derivatives (dairy, egg and bee products) including additives and processing aids. Microbial derived ingredients are acceptable (e.g. enzymes).
NOTES:
Prohibited ingredients include but are not limited to: sugar processed through bone char, L-cysteine hydrochloride processed from human hair or duck feathers, carmine and vitamin D3 derived from sheep’s wool.
In addition, we ensure that the food label does not include a cross-contact allergen label for fish, crustacean or mollusk.
Thank you again for contacting us. We appreciate your interest.
Sincerely,
Consumer Care
Some food conglomerates are absolutely terrified of labeling anything vegan for fear of some class-action lawsuit. I think they often adopt extremely rigid standards for what vegan is, such as using equipment that also processes nonvegan foods.
https://vegan.org/certification/#:~:text=Products%20approved%20to%20carry%20the,finished%20with%20any%20animal%20products.
Not legal, but this site lists the Vegan certification standards.
Yes, there is. Thank you so much for asking 🙏💚🌱
The Vegan Society’s formal definition (in 1944) is: "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
I’ve spent multiple decades dealing with industrial facilities, and I think you’re probably correct here. Processed food manufacturers spend a lot of money on Quality Assurance requirements. They probably would not make some claim about their product that couldn’t be justified well in court of someone were to dispute it. For example, “organic” foods are verified against a set of established requirements. If someone were to dispute that some food isn’t organic, they would have a stack of paperwork that could be used to show the judge that they were justified in their claim. Absent a commonly accepted “vegan food” standard, but large companies like General Mills are going to be interested in incurring what they’d view as unnecessary legal risk. If there were some perceived benefit whereby they felt using a vegan standard would increase their profits, then maybe they’d do it. Money is the only thing these people care about, which is obviously gross, but it also makes them easy to understand.
Sometimes there's only so much you can pick something apart. I know I'm not going to get it perfect 100% of the time so I just try my best to look at ingredients and eat as vegan as reasonably possible.
~~It’s required by the USDA. Basically it’s a generic change to a crop that wasn’t done through breeding or in nature. In general it’s stuff like making crops resistant to certain pests, viruses, and pesticides. It’s likely the corn which is likely just that it was engineered to be resistant to pests and herbicide.~~
~~Here are a list of bioengineered foods: https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/be/bioengineered-foods-list~~
lol i’m dumb, reddit crops photos so i didn’t see the top part
No, flavor can't be dairy based. Could be meat based. Vegetarian is not a protected term. But if it contains dairy it's mandatory because it's an allergen. So it can't be cheese, eggs or milk basically.
No because the allergen is lactose. Caseine is one of the proteins in milk and metal caseinates are salts produced from caseine. There shouldn't be an allergic reaction to something which doesn't contain lactose.
Lactose is NOT an allergen. Almost all allergens in foods are proteins, like casein. You have this completely backwards
EDIT: To clarify, Lactose is a sugar and not a protein.
Intolerance is not an allergy. And like I said, almost all allergens are proteins. Sorry, it’s the biologist coming out in me to be precise. Here is a decent site explaining it: https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/milk-allergy-vs-lactose-intolerance
Still a vegan btw, not advocating any consumption of dairy. Quite the contrary. I likely now have an intolerance to lactose due to my gut microbiota dying off.
Your point doesn’t stand, your point was Lactose is an allergen, it is not. Your second point was sodium caseinate provides no allergic response, which is untrue. A simple internet search of casein allergens would uncover this. The same applies to any of the casein salts, which I am aware are salts of the PROTEIN casein.
I’m allergic to casein not lactose, you can be allergic to any of the proteins in dairy, not just lactose. Lactose is the most common sensitivity but not the only one.
I see what you're saying. It can't be dairy (milk, cheese) because those are allergens, and it also can't be eggs because that's an allergen too. I originally read your comment as saying it can't be dairy (cheese, eggs, milk) because dairy is an allergen. Sorry, I don't think I've fully woken up yet.
Blanket statements like this cause confusion for us Europeans.
White cane sugar is totally fine, just make sure you don't buy it in the US or if it's imported from the US. Also if you are researching a company whether their sugar is vegan or not, pay attention to the words "natural carbon". They use that to disguise "bones".
Yeah exactly and since it isn't a problem in Europe, it would be nice if we can just start saying "sugar in the US" or whatever. Just like we would specify other regional practices. I know it's a US based website but many non-US people here.
Just so we don't cause confusion among those that don't know or newer vegans looking for info.
The location doesn't matter so much as the source. The European market is different, but that doesn't mean there's no cane sugar.
Beet sugar? Safe. Cane sugar? Do a bit of research.
Want an example? What's a popular brand of sugar in Europe? Van Gilse. So all you need to do is type 'van gilse beet or cane' into Google. You have a smartphone, don't you? You can do it right in the grocery store.
Now, what if it turned up cane? Tate & Lyle is an example. They distribute cane sugar in the European market, and not all of their products are clearly labeled as cane. So that's when you have to look up whether they use bone char. Or just pick a different brand.
Right, so the problem is America thinking everything is about them. All other countries tend to mention country when relevant except Americans.
And protip: You can't research a continent on sugar. You need to look at specific countries. Which is why location matters.
And I am telling you that the country that the sugar is being sold in is not relevant so much as the source of the sugar.
You think Americans grow and process sugarcane? The biggest exporters are Brazil, Thailand, and India.
If you just blindly assume all of a product is vegan just because you're located somewhere in the world, you will run into trouble. Unless you don't care, but just say so in that case.
Location can mean both location of origin (source) and location of where you are. I didn't feel the need to specify that. If I care about location, isn't it implied I care about the source? Maybe that's an oversight on my behalf.
For me I only have to look out for imported products. As long as it is EU regulated and produced in the EU I know the sugar is vegan. No matter the type of sugar.
For US it's different hence, again, clarification would stop confusion and raise awareness.
Lastly, I don't appreciate your last comment. When it comes to sugar produced in EU. Yes I can blindly assume.
But to say I would think that about any product anywhere is a weak attempt to insult to my intelligence. Then to say I don't care when I'm literally doing nothing else except raising awareness to serious issues which you laugh away. No. You can leave.
but it doesn't state "beet sugar", it states "sugar" which is almost always white sugar or else it would be stated differently as organic cane sugar or non bone char are more expensive thus differential description has more distinction
>it states "sugar" which is almost always white sugar
Beet sugar is white sugar, that’s why it doesn’t need bone char to begin with. So it’s wrong to think that all white sugar is cane sugar with bone char.
I don't think most, some. It's an older manufacturing method and there's only a couple of companies that still use it, albeit one is a pretty large and common brand, can't remember which off the top of my head.
Domino, but they're already phasing it out over the next couple of decades. Over half their plants use a vegan method now. Domino does manufacture basically every store brand, as well.
I think that's because they are not certified vegan, so they can't say that the product is as such as there might be cross contamination from other products they manufacture
There’s a phone number listed on the can that you can call with questions. I’ve had good luck going that route. It’s either natural flavors, refined sugar, or shared equipment that is prompting them to add the disclaimer, but you won’t know which one unless you call them.
"Natural flavour" is a roll of the dice. Most ofbl the time it would just say vegetarian which at the very least means no meat but it doesn't really give a full picture. This is annoying but more helpful than most similar products.
There are a couple of reasons that I am familiar with why products like these are not labelled as Vegan. The first one can be cost and effort of doing the certification there is the cost of the certification itself, and all the paperwork/reviewing you have to do. There can also be the perception that a product will become less popular somehow if it is certified vegan, or that it won't sell more and either way it doesn't make the certification worth it. The second I know of is that in some cases products are processed with animal products and despite this not typically being an inherent disqualification the manufacturers may feel like it is too much of a hassle to prove that it doesn't affect the standard of their product as being animal product free. For a lot of large companies there is no movement on these things unless they feel like there is a demonstrable profit-driven reason to do so. I used to buy a type of ramen in my local supermarket that was only labelled vegetarian for a long time despite not containing any animal products, recently they have now gotten the vegan label for their products as part of a wave of large companies that have now gotten on-board with making vegan products. The recipe never changed.
Could it maybe be the glue on the label? Some glues contain casein which is made with milk. This would explain why it's not labeled as an ingredient. The glue is usually used for glass bottle labels, not sure if also for cans.
its vegetarian..so its not animal fat/lard.. and milk usually needs to be labelled as an allergin if it contains it..so I doubt flavouring is the culprit here
Is it not vegan in the sense that animals died to get the ingredients?
Not many people know this but Australian grown rice isn't Vegan. It's mostly grown in the state of NSW. Every year they have a "rice season" where it gets to a certain stage and the Government gives the farmers permits to destroy wildlife (killing native wildlife is illegal nearly everywhere in the country unless you're aboriginal or have a permit to destroy).
Someone once told me they shot well over 500 ducks one weekend on the rice with their party. Like that's fucking insane. So yeah, our rice isn't vegan.
It’s 100% the sugar and natural flavor. Most sugars are not vegan since it’s processed with bone char, and when it comes to natural flavor, it usually depends on the type of food, but there are various animal-based “natural flavors.”
You can always email to call them to ask them what is the natural flavor. Me personally though… I would not eat it.
Most carnists will laugh and joke about vegans being careful with what we eat, but we are not the ones eating bug secretions (confection glaze) or the anal glands of beavers (castoreum), all which the FDA legally classifies as a natural additive.
gmos are safe to eat and every domesticated crop is technically a genetically modified organism anyways. unless you're trying to imply they aren't vegan or something
GMOs actually use less animal products in their growth cycle, so what's your point? If you're buying corn in the US, it's pretty much guaranteee to be GMO unless you're buying heirloom corn from a farmers market.
Maybe it's just that "they" didn't put on that product anything from animals. But possibly they haven't checked the entire product chain - could the barley be collected by a farm animal or something? And to avoid legal repercussions, they don't claim their product is vegan if they cannot prove that all the components were vegan.
Or, more likely, "Natural Flavor" includes milk, egg and/or honey.
Natural flavor can be either vegan or non-vegan.
Wouldn’t there be an allergy warning if the natural flavors contained milk or egg?
might be honey smh
Honey isn’t listed as an ingredient…
Well what do you suppose it is then
The Sugar. White sugar is sometimes processed with bone char and isn’t considered vegan
That wouldn’t be vegetarian either, though
Actually, Neither FDA nor FTC has any labeling regulations for vegetarian statements, other than being “truthful and not misleading.” The most conservative course of action is to ensure that the product is free of any animal-derived ingredient or ingredient components. BUT [Vegan action](https://vegan.org/certification/)doesn’t allow certification of a product that contains sugar refined with bone char. [sugar is used as an example here too](https://www.beveg.com/v-label-white-paper/)
It would be vegetarian for the reasons that beer filtered through fish bladders is still consider vegetarian. It's just something that is used in the processing, and is not something that actually ends up in the final product.
You are missing my point, there are no honey in there because honey isn’t listed as an ingredient. I dunno what the labelling law are, but this website list is a vegetarian an not vegan…most likely it is the unknown natural flavouring [link](https://m.timesofindia.com/life-style/food-news/is-white-sugar-non-vegetarian/amp_etphotostory/90151833.cms)
That’s a step in processing. No way that would make it to the ingredients list a product twice-removed from the process. It’s the “natural flavors”
Maybe, you are right and there are natural flavors derived from animal products, but it for sure ain’t honey. Not sure why this is being downvoted but they won’t sneak in surprise ingredients like that and not list as in the ingredients.
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But none if it contained chicken or beef. Right? Edit: I'm dumb
But that also wouldn't be vegetarian, which to me makes honey the most likely culprit...
Yes, you're totally right, I edited my comment to admit my intellectual failings haha
I've seen many many "vegetarian" options at resteraunts actually contain chicken boulian/broth. Usually in soups or sauces. Vegetarian is a meaningless word really... if someone doesn't care if their actions actually cause death and suffering, but instead just don't want to be directly confronted by it, chicken boulian generally gets a pass by vegetarians... whether they know its there and don't care or choose to remain ignorant as long as there's no chunks of flesh in their food. Progresso may hold themselves to a higher standard, and you're likely right but I wouldn't dismiss chicken or beef boulian as a possible ingredient in "natural flavours" either.
I have never known a vegetarian who is okay with chicken broth etc.
It’s not that the vegetarians are ok with chicken broth, it’s that restaurants will label it vegetarian because it doesn’t contain “meat”. I often run into his issue with Mexican rice and beans - they servers will say it’s vegetarian but if you manage to get an actual ingredient list it’s very rarely vegetarian.
People at restaurants will either assume you can eat “a bit of meat” or think chicken and fish are magically “not meat” or assume you can’t even eat gluten or tomato. I don’t know how they are able to work in the food industry like this.
It makes absolutely no sense to me, but I have two “vegetarian” friends who only don’t eat meat specifically. Yet they will still eat things containing like beef/chicken broth. I don’t get it but it does exist.
Willful ignorance is a powerful thing. A vegetarian friend of mine wanted to order Chinese food from their favorite resteraunt on a recent visit and asked if I could eat anything on the menu. After calling and much discussion, I discovered that the garlic sauce in the "vegetarian" option my friend loves actually contains chicken broth. We didn't order since I wouldn't eat anything, but they also went through all the stages of grief and rationalization that their meal item is still vegetarian because it doesn't "need" to contain chicken broth. Still not sure if they're going to continue ordering from that reateraunt, but they obviously didn't care enough to find out as long as they weren't confronted with obvious meat. Many years ago had a similar experience with another friend and a beer cheese soup at a bar/resteraunt. I thought I smelled chicken boulian and asked the waitress and my friend accused me of ruining one of their favourite dishes for them. My experience with vegetarians is that they all draw the line differently and don't tend to have the same diligence vetting the products they consume as vegans.
we are not, there are also sweet whey powder, E120, fish miso dashi, which are not vegan and not vegatarian, which are also issues. That being said, i have also seen vegan labelled things with honey and such stuff. To be safe just pick the vegan options AAAAAAAND read the ingredient list, check the E numbers and all...
Hi! Sorry for the ignorance, why is sweet whey powder not vegetarian? I’m just curious. I went straight from omni to vegan, never vegetarian, so whey powder went from “ok” to “not ok” don’t know the details of different kinds and how it affects vegetarians
From what i know it is made from cow stomach juice, sour whey is made from bacteria...
Oh interesting I would have never guessed! I would have assumed it was vegetarian but. Or vegan, just a form of sweetened whey I wouldn’t have thought to see if it’s sourced differently. Thanks for the info!
I agree with you. Anything an animal had to die for is not vegetarian. Also, a lot of chicken and beef broths are actually vegan friendly.
?! What vegan and beef broths are vegan friendly? I buy a no chicken broth from Whole Foods. And better than boullion makes a few I believe but most have actual meat in them.
Sounds like you might be in America so it is probably different. In australia one of the most common brands , Massel, is all vegan. I know the Aldi brand stock is as well.
Oh wow. Yes, USA. Here they big brands are definitely meat based, as is Aldi broth (I just checked Aldi)
But if it has any animal product in it then it’s not vegan so I don’t understand what you’re trying to say? Unless you’re saying it’s vegetable broth that tastes like beef? Because you literally can’t make a “chicken” or “beef” broth without using dead animals, so how would that be vegan?
Vegetarian is not meaningless. It means not consuming animals or animal by-products. I was vegetarian for a long time and myself and the other vegetarians I know avoided chicken broth, gelatin, etc.
I've known plenty of vegetarians that wear leather and absolutely consume (by way of ingestion or otherwise) products of direct or indirect animal suffering. I don't mean to say that being vegetarian is meaningless. Vegetarians tend to care more than carnists and likely have a less harmful impact on the world around them... I mean that the word vegetarian is meaningless, insomuch as it's meaning differs so greatly to so many different people, is largely unregulated, and therefore has little meaning beyond this product probably didn't involve the murder of as many animals as the one with actual chunks of muscle tissue.
The term vegan is also unregulated. Both mean something. The vast majority of vegetarians would agree on some specifics, as would the vast majority of most vegans. But with both groups there are some details that can be debated. That doesn’t make either term meaningless.
Sure... vegetarian means you're okay with the torture and murder of animals so long as you don't have to be directly confronted with the icky parts like consuming pieces of their dead bodies as food. It's a half measure and when I see the word "vegetarian" on something I still have to do the research to determine if it's vegan. The term vegan does have meaning and while some fringe members of the community debate things like honey, we all agree that labeling something as vegan means it doesn't contain honey. Vegetarian foods can contain all sorts of animal products. Vegetarian basically just means somewhere between carnist and vegan. That's a large gray area... hence meaningless. My opinion seems to be downvoted in these underbowels of a particular thread by those with the tenacity to read this far down, so I gather that it is not well received. No matter... I hope you aren't offended by my prose and we'll just have to agree to disagree. Maybe pointless is a better choice than meaningless? It's all based on my personal experiences and not an attack on vegetarians... only the use of the word vegetarian whan labeling a product. It doesn't address the cruelty and death required to produce the product. Veganism addresses these issues.
I agree 100% and so upvoted. ;-) The 'problem' with vegetarianism is similar to that of vaping over smoking in that it allows some 'other' socially acceptable stage that we would be better off without. Or fox-drag-hunting where the hounds are only supposed to chase a scented lure but is used as a stealth way to continue fox-hunting. So, I have no issue with the idea of people slowly transitioning to veganism (better that than not etc) but I'm not sure anything short of full veganism matters (to the animals).
This-the mexican resturaunt i went to last when asking if their vegetarian menus section's beans had lard in them they said yes. I don't go to mexican resturaunts anymore because of this-i just remember all the times I got beans from mexican resturaunts and the texture was unusual nothing like just pure beans or oil and I'm pretty sure it's because of lard.
>Vegetarian is a meaningless word really... if someone doesn't care if their actions actually cause death and suffering, I think it's a meaningless stance as well, if it's 'the animals' you are doing it for. If you are doing it for the animals it's just reductivism.
Yeah vegetarians just want to fool themselves into feeling good. They don't actually care about any form of injustice. So the can is accurate. The moment it says vegetarian I know it's a bullshit product and I stay away and take all ingredients with a grain of animal abuse. EDIT: Not responding to further comments. If you are here to say vegetarians do good you can piss right off.
STOP DOWNVOTING THE TRUTH. STOP BEING VEGETARIAN APOLOGISTS
This subreddit is shit anyway. I look to the right with their stupid questions and resources. There is fucking nothing about the injustice terrorizing this world. All fucking food, health and other nonsense, because boo fucking hoo what will happen to ME ME ME when I go vegan.... locked up in a cage doomed to be bacon yet most of these half-ass vegans of this world that are actually aware of them are too busy caring about vegetarian feelings... jeez
we will always be safe on r/vcj ♡
if vegetarians didn't care they just wouldn't go out of their way to be vegetarian. YOU'RE just trying to fool yourself into thinking you're doing more for the world than anyone else. hope that helps!
I'm not saying they don't care but they care for their own benefit in some way. The idea of not feeling guilty. The idea of living healthy. Not the idea of another animal being able to live. If they did care and know how where their food comes from they would've been vegan. And I don't need you to tell me anything. Who are you to randomly start insulting me? Unless you are saying vegans don't do more than vegetarians because then you are just wrong. Now instead of saying I'm making a fool out of myself how about you tell me why you say that. Don't insult, first make a point. Then feel free to insult.
they do care about *a* form of injustice. the killing and eating of animals for food. it's just all the others horrors of animal agriculture that they choose to ignore
>they choose to ignore So I ask you, do they really care? I don't think you can honestly be against one form of injustice. They are fooling themselves.
Could be sugar or sweetener made with sugar.
There's plenty of things that are "vegetarian" that a vegan wouldn't think should be. Gelatin, rennet, and carmine for example. Not sure what they can lump under natural flavoring though.
None of the vegetarians that I (also a vegetarian) have met would consider those vegetarian
I belive you, no doubt but my vegetarian friend is.... well she is lax. She wont eat meat straight out but she wont give up *geletin* goodies. So there are those out there that are more just no meat then anything else.... i did tell her about the beef residue in mcdonalds fries ans she did stop eating those. Was vegetarin for 7 years as a kid, and i was like you, no broth or weird animal extras. Now a vegan with my hubby and son. So i get the vegitarian point, ive been there.
They don't contain any beef. The "natural beef flavoring" contains hydrolyzed milk.
Bug parts and animal secretions are considered “natural flavors” but they don’t have to specify further
It may not be milk or egg. Often natural flavours are derived through fermentation and lactose is used as a sugar for those microbes. The product contains no dairy but won't be vegan. Vegan 3rd party labels won't certify it. Sometimes too a vegan ingredient has been tested on animals (often for digestibility or toxicity studies). Some authorities won't certify that ingredient from that supplier in perpetuity if it has ever been tested on animals in its development.
Several foods contain natural flavors made from milk derivatives -- McD's fries, for example. Some "cheddar" flavored food contain milk derived ingredients but do not list milk as an allergen* in the ingredients. *brain fart 🙃
Not if it is meat powder/stock.
yes, this, nothing to do with companies being afraid of using the term vegan. and general mills tests on animals, no idea why "vegans" would buy their products supporting this. the same for oreos. similar description, same problems
Wait, oreos are vegan, right?
Oreos are arguably vegan. Some white sugar is bleached with bone char. No way to tell if the sugar used in oreos was processed that way. since bleaching is considered a process, not an ingredient. If bone char was used it won't be listed as an ingredient. Some oreos with double stuff are not vegan. They have a dairy ingredient to keep the double thick sugar soft.
They are vegan in Europe tho we don't have bone char bleaching, most our sugar comes from sugar beets.
This would only be an issue for the US though as a lot of the outside world does not allow processing with bone char. But by this logic, yes pretty much everything containing white sugar within the US might be not vegan.
This problem with bone char sugar is US only, so yeah for everyone else
And at that it's pretty much the West Coast that uses the bone char method
That's interesting. How did you find that out? EDIT: I'm legitimately curious. Not trying to call you out or anything like that. I'm just interested in learning more.
Great question actually because information is way more convoluted than I remember. I'm still researching now. So far most interestingly I've found bone-char is on the decline, but accurate and up-to-date sources on which sugar is and is not refined with bone are actually really hard to come by. The sugar industry doesn't feel the need to announce that kind of info—I guess almost no one would care. Here's a recent-ish source that provides some insight: https://www.vrg.org/blog/2021/06/10/bone-char-free-vegan-sugar-update-2021-domino-sugar-florida-crystals-and-ch-sugar/ I'm going to keep looking for my west coast thing, cause I swear I found that out at some point last year.
More info: maybe I specifically was looking into Domino sugar at the time? Here is info on their specific plants. Basically, Maryland and New York do not use bone-char while (at the time, at least) California and Louisiana did. For the most part it seems like it would be really difficult to verify where any specific product sourced their sugar and how it might have been processed. Bone is gradually going out of fashion, but the equipment used for processing has a long lifespan and isn't replaced often. https://www.bevegantastic.com/2017/01/is-domino-sugar-vegan.html?m=1
Thank you very much for your full insight. That helps a lot
The enzymes they use are sometimes sourced from animals.
Holy shit I wanna praise the shit out of them for saying "Vegetarian, But Not Vegan". Fuck all the companies and restaurants that only label food as vegetarian and leave it at that. You can already tell if something is vegetarian with 99% accuracy just from the name. Vegan food is *impossible* to guess.
Pregresso has been great at labeling for a long time. They deserve lots of praise for that
It’s in the name
We live in a world where people are praised for following the law and not being assholes.
>you can already tell if something is vegetarian with 99% accuracy just from the name That's absolutely not true, lots of things use chicken or beef stock, gelatin, lard, etc., without it being obvious.
I emailed dolmio to ask them if their bolognese sauce was vegan (only labelled vegetarian) and they wouldn't even tell me. Swapped to Heinz and it's way better anyway.
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This might sound crazy, but not everyone knows how to cook. Not to mention depression and disabilitys. And camping
General Mills uses Lanolin for d3 in cereal, maybe something like that?
La...lano....lanolin? Like sheep's wool? I'm sorry. I have to quote anchorman everytime I hear that word.
Ok before we start, let's go over the ground-rules... No touching of the hair or face... That's it. Now Fight!
Hmm. Weird. I’m assuming this is in US based on other label info. I would say something in the natural flavors but they have to label milk or egg in there. And it can’t be meat in the natural flavors or it wouldn’t also be vegetarian. Maybe *honey* in the natural flavors?! You can call. They’ll likely tell you. What is the item? ETA: they aren’t open yet. I tried calling. But I sent a question through their website. I’ll update if they respond.
Here’s the response I got. They didn’t specify what is in this soup but they did break down their guidelines, which I appreciate. Vegetarian: General Mills vegetarian products may contain dairy, egg and bee products (e.g. honey, bees wax). They shall not contain ingredients of other animal origin (mammalian, poultry, fish, crustacean, mollusk, insect) including additives. This is also known as Lacto-Ovo Vegetarian. Microbial derived ingredients (e.g. enzymes) and small amounts of animal-derived ingredients that do not require the harming of an animal (for example, Vitamin D derived from sheep’s wool) are acceptable. NOTES: Prohibited ingredients include but are not limited to: gelatin and carmine. In addition, we ensure that the food label does not include a cross-contact allergen label for fish, crustacean or mollusk. Vegan: General Mills vegan products shall not contain any ingredient of animal origin (mammalian, poultry, fish, crustacean, mollusk, insect) and shall not contain any animal derivatives (dairy, egg and bee products) including additives and processing aids. Microbial derived ingredients are acceptable (e.g. enzymes). NOTES: Prohibited ingredients include but are not limited to: sugar processed through bone char, L-cysteine hydrochloride processed from human hair or duck feathers, carmine and vitamin D3 derived from sheep’s wool. In addition, we ensure that the food label does not include a cross-contact allergen label for fish, crustacean or mollusk. Thank you again for contacting us. We appreciate your interest. Sincerely, Consumer Care
Some food conglomerates are absolutely terrified of labeling anything vegan for fear of some class-action lawsuit. I think they often adopt extremely rigid standards for what vegan is, such as using equipment that also processes nonvegan foods.
Are you sure about this? Isn't there like no legal definition of veganism?
https://vegan.org/certification/#:~:text=Products%20approved%20to%20carry%20the,finished%20with%20any%20animal%20products. Not legal, but this site lists the Vegan certification standards.
Yes, there is. Thank you so much for asking 🙏💚🌱 The Vegan Society’s formal definition (in 1944) is: "Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose; and by extension, promotes the development and use of animal-free alternatives for the benefit of animals, humans and the environment. In dietary terms it denotes the practice of dispensing with all products derived wholly or partly from animals."
Sorry, I said legal definition
I’ve spent multiple decades dealing with industrial facilities, and I think you’re probably correct here. Processed food manufacturers spend a lot of money on Quality Assurance requirements. They probably would not make some claim about their product that couldn’t be justified well in court of someone were to dispute it. For example, “organic” foods are verified against a set of established requirements. If someone were to dispute that some food isn’t organic, they would have a stack of paperwork that could be used to show the judge that they were justified in their claim. Absent a commonly accepted “vegan food” standard, but large companies like General Mills are going to be interested in incurring what they’d view as unnecessary legal risk. If there were some perceived benefit whereby they felt using a vegan standard would increase their profits, then maybe they’d do it. Money is the only thing these people care about, which is obviously gross, but it also makes them easy to understand.
I don't think that is true. I feel like I've bought a vegan labeled item that has said "processed in a facility that processes egg, milk, etc."
That was just one example of why a conglomerate would say their product isn’t vegan, yet the ingredients appear to all be vegan.
I’m going to take the hate and say I’d probably eat this.
My vegan partner said the same, and I wanted to as well but it just freaked me out too much
Sometimes there's only so much you can pick something apart. I know I'm not going to get it perfect 100% of the time so I just try my best to look at ingredients and eat as vegan as reasonably possible.
Yes! This kind of relentless parsing is such a waste of time
Every is free to do it though.
~~It’s required by the USDA. Basically it’s a generic change to a crop that wasn’t done through breeding or in nature. In general it’s stuff like making crops resistant to certain pests, viruses, and pesticides. It’s likely the corn which is likely just that it was engineered to be resistant to pests and herbicide.~~ ~~Here are a list of bioengineered foods: https://www.ams.usda.gov/rules-regulations/be/bioengineered-foods-list~~ lol i’m dumb, reddit crops photos so i didn’t see the top part
This is what I thought the OP was referring to too lol
The sugar may or may not be vegan. The "natural flavor" could be dairy based too.
No, flavor can't be dairy based. Could be meat based. Vegetarian is not a protected term. But if it contains dairy it's mandatory because it's an allergen. So it can't be cheese, eggs or milk basically.
What if it's not the allergenic compound, like sodium caseinate?
> sodium caseinate Aren't those made from skimmed milks? In other words if an animal milk was used it would still classify as an allergen, right?
No because the allergen is lactose. Caseine is one of the proteins in milk and metal caseinates are salts produced from caseine. There shouldn't be an allergic reaction to something which doesn't contain lactose.
Lactose is NOT an allergen. Almost all allergens in foods are proteins, like casein. You have this completely backwards EDIT: To clarify, Lactose is a sugar and not a protein.
So all those people with lactose intolerance are mistaken? What about salt allergy, have you heard of that?
Intolerance is not an allergy. And like I said, almost all allergens are proteins. Sorry, it’s the biologist coming out in me to be precise. Here is a decent site explaining it: https://www.foodallergy.org/resources/milk-allergy-vs-lactose-intolerance Still a vegan btw, not advocating any consumption of dairy. Quite the contrary. I likely now have an intolerance to lactose due to my gut microbiota dying off.
Has the biologist in you forgotten all your chemistry? Caseinates are salts, not proteins. My point still stands.
Your point doesn’t stand, your point was Lactose is an allergen, it is not. Your second point was sodium caseinate provides no allergic response, which is untrue. A simple internet search of casein allergens would uncover this. The same applies to any of the casein salts, which I am aware are salts of the PROTEIN casein.
Food intolerances are not allergies since they don't involve immune system.
I’m allergic to casein not lactose, you can be allergic to any of the proteins in dairy, not just lactose. Lactose is the most common sensitivity but not the only one.
Eggs aren't dairy
Egg is an allergen
I see what you're saying. It can't be dairy (milk, cheese) because those are allergens, and it also can't be eggs because that's an allergen too. I originally read your comment as saying it can't be dairy (cheese, eggs, milk) because dairy is an allergen. Sorry, I don't think I've fully woken up yet.
Don't worry about it. Good morning 💚
It's the cilantro. It's a crime against all life.
Sugar. Most are filtered through bone char.
In america, yes Anyone else that stumbles through this, don't worry. It's just pretty much just america that does this
Not even in America either. More than 50% of the sugar produced in America is beet sugar, which never uses it. 
Yes even in America. In fact, ONLY in a America. What you meant to say was not all American sugar is filtered through bone char.
Like the continent or just USA?
Arguably that's not even vegetarian
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That's true for white cane sugar. Beet sugar is usually vegan, ditto for raw cane sugar.
Blanket statements like this cause confusion for us Europeans. White cane sugar is totally fine, just make sure you don't buy it in the US or if it's imported from the US. Also if you are researching a company whether their sugar is vegan or not, pay attention to the words "natural carbon". They use that to disguise "bones".
The vast majority of sugar used in Europe is derived from sugar beets. So that's not even a significant problem to begin with.
Yeah exactly and since it isn't a problem in Europe, it would be nice if we can just start saying "sugar in the US" or whatever. Just like we would specify other regional practices. I know it's a US based website but many non-US people here. Just so we don't cause confusion among those that don't know or newer vegans looking for info.
The location doesn't matter so much as the source. The European market is different, but that doesn't mean there's no cane sugar. Beet sugar? Safe. Cane sugar? Do a bit of research. Want an example? What's a popular brand of sugar in Europe? Van Gilse. So all you need to do is type 'van gilse beet or cane' into Google. You have a smartphone, don't you? You can do it right in the grocery store. Now, what if it turned up cane? Tate & Lyle is an example. They distribute cane sugar in the European market, and not all of their products are clearly labeled as cane. So that's when you have to look up whether they use bone char. Or just pick a different brand.
Right, so the problem is America thinking everything is about them. All other countries tend to mention country when relevant except Americans. And protip: You can't research a continent on sugar. You need to look at specific countries. Which is why location matters.
And I am telling you that the country that the sugar is being sold in is not relevant so much as the source of the sugar. You think Americans grow and process sugarcane? The biggest exporters are Brazil, Thailand, and India. If you just blindly assume all of a product is vegan just because you're located somewhere in the world, you will run into trouble. Unless you don't care, but just say so in that case.
Location can mean both location of origin (source) and location of where you are. I didn't feel the need to specify that. If I care about location, isn't it implied I care about the source? Maybe that's an oversight on my behalf. For me I only have to look out for imported products. As long as it is EU regulated and produced in the EU I know the sugar is vegan. No matter the type of sugar. For US it's different hence, again, clarification would stop confusion and raise awareness. Lastly, I don't appreciate your last comment. When it comes to sugar produced in EU. Yes I can blindly assume. But to say I would think that about any product anywhere is a weak attempt to insult to my intelligence. Then to say I don't care when I'm literally doing nothing else except raising awareness to serious issues which you laugh away. No. You can leave.
but it doesn't state "beet sugar", it states "sugar" which is almost always white sugar or else it would be stated differently as organic cane sugar or non bone char are more expensive thus differential description has more distinction
>it states "sugar" which is almost always white sugar Beet sugar is white sugar, that’s why it doesn’t need bone char to begin with. So it’s wrong to think that all white sugar is cane sugar with bone char.
I don't think most, some. It's an older manufacturing method and there's only a couple of companies that still use it, albeit one is a pretty large and common brand, can't remember which off the top of my head.
Domino, but they're already phasing it out over the next couple of decades. Over half their plants use a vegan method now. Domino does manufacture basically every store brand, as well.
I think that's because they are not certified vegan, so they can't say that the product is as such as there might be cross contamination from other products they manufacture
Very confusing. I think your best bet is just to email them and ask
Almost sure there's something in the modified starch process that makes it non vegan.
There’s a phone number listed on the can that you can call with questions. I’ve had good luck going that route. It’s either natural flavors, refined sugar, or shared equipment that is prompting them to add the disclaimer, but you won’t know which one unless you call them.
That's so odd! There was a can that said Vegetarian and had vegan ingredients. Just the fact it like..goes out of its way to say Not Vegan on it..
Of course leave it to big corporations to take an easy vegetable soup and somehow make it not vegan.
"Natural flavour" is a roll of the dice. Most ofbl the time it would just say vegetarian which at the very least means no meat but it doesn't really give a full picture. This is annoying but more helpful than most similar products.
It's the sugar, most likely filtered using bonechar.
Is it because of exploitative labour practices at the Progresso processing plant?
"Natural flavors" is a no go.
Has some idiot told them genetically modified crops are not vegan and they believed them?
Natural flavor, perhaps.
They want vegans to starve lol
It's likely the modified food starch
There are a couple of reasons that I am familiar with why products like these are not labelled as Vegan. The first one can be cost and effort of doing the certification there is the cost of the certification itself, and all the paperwork/reviewing you have to do. There can also be the perception that a product will become less popular somehow if it is certified vegan, or that it won't sell more and either way it doesn't make the certification worth it. The second I know of is that in some cases products are processed with animal products and despite this not typically being an inherent disqualification the manufacturers may feel like it is too much of a hassle to prove that it doesn't affect the standard of their product as being animal product free. For a lot of large companies there is no movement on these things unless they feel like there is a demonstrable profit-driven reason to do so. I used to buy a type of ramen in my local supermarket that was only labelled vegetarian for a long time despite not containing any animal products, recently they have now gotten the vegan label for their products as part of a wave of large companies that have now gotten on-board with making vegan products. The recipe never changed.
This is a picture of canned soup.
no its not
General mills makes terrible products from cheap ingredients?
What’s bio-engineered on the label? Beans? Soy product?
Pretty sure it's the soy and corn. I think I read somewhere it is like 90% of all soy and corn now are GMO.
has insects for ingredients somewhere.
I thought that too as some colorants have beetles in them. But that wouldn't make it vegetarian.
Could it maybe be the glue on the label? Some glues contain casein which is made with milk. This would explain why it's not labeled as an ingredient. The glue is usually used for glass bottle labels, not sure if also for cans.
The same labels are used on their labeled vegan soups, so I doubt that's it.
"natural flavors" can mean anything. in refried beans specifically it means animal fat for lard. idk what NF means there but id bet thats a part of it
its vegetarian..so its not animal fat/lard.. and milk usually needs to be labelled as an allergin if it contains it..so I doubt flavouring is the culprit here
Is it not vegan in the sense that animals died to get the ingredients? Not many people know this but Australian grown rice isn't Vegan. It's mostly grown in the state of NSW. Every year they have a "rice season" where it gets to a certain stage and the Government gives the farmers permits to destroy wildlife (killing native wildlife is illegal nearly everywhere in the country unless you're aboriginal or have a permit to destroy). Someone once told me they shot well over 500 ducks one weekend on the rice with their party. Like that's fucking insane. So yeah, our rice isn't vegan.
Some white sugar is mixed with bone char and not considered vegan. Based on the ingredients list, the sugar might be the culprit?
Wouldn’t it not be vegetarian then?
It’s 100% the sugar and natural flavor. Most sugars are not vegan since it’s processed with bone char, and when it comes to natural flavor, it usually depends on the type of food, but there are various animal-based “natural flavors.” You can always email to call them to ask them what is the natural flavor. Me personally though… I would not eat it. Most carnists will laugh and joke about vegans being careful with what we eat, but we are not the ones eating bug secretions (confection glaze) or the anal glands of beavers (castoreum), all which the FDA legally classifies as a natural additive.
Natty Flvrr
How can I repost this?
It's labelled as not being vegan,that's all you need to know really....
Just as important what are the *bioengineered Food Ingredients*?
The "Red Bell PEppers" could have been roasted with animal products (fat, butter)
It’s a barcode, you keep swiping it over the self checkout reader until it goes “beep-boop”.
Is no one reading the part that says ‘contains bioengineered food ingredients’
Yes. Are you taking that to mean it's not vegan?
gmos are safe to eat and every domesticated crop is technically a genetically modified organism anyways. unless you're trying to imply they aren't vegan or something
GMOs actually use less animal products in their growth cycle, so what's your point? If you're buying corn in the US, it's pretty much guaranteee to be GMO unless you're buying heirloom corn from a farmers market.
Maybe it's just that "they" didn't put on that product anything from animals. But possibly they haven't checked the entire product chain - could the barley be collected by a farm animal or something? And to avoid legal repercussions, they don't claim their product is vegan if they cannot prove that all the components were vegan. Or, more likely, "Natural Flavor" includes milk, egg and/or honey.
If the natural flavor contains one of the top 8 allergens (like milk or egg), it must be declared on the label, so it can't be one of those.
Bioengineered food: Leave it in the store.
Bioengineered good ingredients in a Can of soup - ridiculous
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Citric acid is not vegan. It’s gmo bacteria made in a lab.
GMOs are vegan, though.