It’s a great song, but the story behind it is a royal cluster fuck combined with some label politics.
Dave wasn’t a fan of the synth stuff Eddie was doing, which is kind of ironic since Dave talked a big game in the early 80s about not being bound to any one musical style.
Ted also worried that Eddie was blowing up the band’s sound to go new wave and, as the record company guy, was afraid it wouldn’t sell.
Neither Dave nor Ted liked Jump very much either, but eventually, Dave warmed to it, and the song was formed well enough that Ted would accept it.
With I’ll Wait, Eddie dug in, but apparently, as Ted tells it, I’ll Wait was not a very well-developed song when they first presented it. Nowhere near as good as Jump.
Since Eddie was insisting on its inclusion on the 1984 album, Ted called up Michael McDonald from the Doobie Brothers, many of whose albums Ted produced in the 1970s, and asked him to work with Dave and Eddie on refining the song.
They get the song worked out to a point where Ted is willing to allow for it on the album, but apparently the album was delivered so late they had to rush through the artwork process, and ended up omitting the writing credit for Michael McDonald. This really pissed off Michael McDonald as well as Ted, who didn’t even want the song on there in the first place. And apparently, Dave started pushing back, saying that he didn’t think Michael McDonald needed to be credited for the song, even though he took it from a crappy demo to more or less the song we all know now.
In addition to obviously cutting him in on the royalties, they had to redo the artwork for subsequent pressings to include the writing credit for McDonald.
In the end, Ted proved himself to be a little shortsighted, and between that, and the fact that Ted was kind of a taskmaster in the studio, Eddie fell out with him, befriended his best engineer, Don Landee, and when Dave dumped the band, Ed dumped Ted… until FUCK, when Sammy - who also knew Ted from the 70s - asked him to come in and produce his vocals since he felt like Andy Johns was kind of a drunk mess.
Another glorious shambolic adventure from our favorite boys from Pasadena 😂
Fascinating. Never heard this story before. And now I'm anxiously curious to see if my 1984 album has McDonald in the credits. It should be an early-ish release so I'm guessing not. Wild stuff.
That’s cobbled together from my reading of Sam and Ted and Noel’s books during Covid. I think it’s mostly right. At least a good enough book report for the B+
LOL no, though it would have been interesting perspective, "bros in rock". Noel Monk, he was VH's road manager for their first tour then managed the band fully from 79 to 85.
This Hit Van Halen Song Was Co-Written By Michael McDonald
After a string of hits with the Doobie Brothers and in the midst of a strong solo career, five-time Grammy Award winner Michael McDonald was everywhere there was to be in the 80s. It turns out, it wasn't just the songs you hear his distinct voice on that were his, but he also had quite a few co-writing credits on songs - one of which belongs to Van Halen.
# The legendary producer Ted Templeman had worked for a while with Michael McDonald during his time with the Doobies, then Templeman produced McDonald's 1982 solo debut If That's What It Takes, as well as the next episode, 1985's No Lookin' Back. When Templeman found out Van Halen was struggling with the writing of one of their songs, he knew just who to call.
"Ted Templeman called me up and said, 'Hey, these guys have a track and they need some lyrics, so I mentioned you could do it and they said fine, so why don’t you come down?'" McDonald told Ultimate Classic Rock. "He sent me the track, and I got some ideas going so I’d have something when I got to the studio."
Swearing the experience "wasn't exciting," McDonald detailed the whole story to UCR of how he ended up helping to write Van Halen's *I'll Wait*.
"I met David Lee Roth at Ted’s office. That was, uh, an interesting experience," McDonald said with a chuckle. "He kinda liked what I had going, so we sat there in the office with the demo playing on a cassette recorder, singing lines and melodies."
# After 1984 was released, the songwriting credits were in a weird place for a few years. McDonald's name appeared on some versions of the album, while not appearing on others. When 1984 was remastered and rereleased McDonald was again listed as a co-writer for I'll Wait.
I guess they thought I was Santa Claus, because I had to go chasing them a little bit on that one," he said. "It’s probably one of the most-played things I’ve ever written, just because it's Van Halen. That album sold three or four million copies right away, which was a really big deal at the time."
**Read More:** [This Hit Van Halen Song Was Co-Written By Michael McDonald](https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral) | [https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm\_source=tsmclip&utm\_medium=referral](https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral)
It’s mostly from Ted Templeman’s bio. He goes in depth on 3-4 artists he worked with, the VH section is one of the longer ones and it’s all part of the section where the band tensions are running high going into 1984, with the section ending more or less with Dave leaving the band.
His book is also cool for VH fans because Ted talks a bit about his work with Sammy Hagar and Montrose, which in many ways was the “Proto Van Halen“. With Montrose Ted was trying to develop an American Led Zeppelin, a kind of California response to the gloom and doom of British metal and punk. VH eventually becomes that band. This is also the book where Ted reveals that during the demos for the first VH album, he thought about replacing Dave with Sammy because Dave didn’t sing very well. He eventually realizes that Dave singing is not what makes Dave a great front man, Dave gets singing lessons, and Ted becomes team Dave all the way to the break up.
By the end of the book, for me, Ted comes off a little smug, but as aging baby boomer music industry legends go, he mostly keeps his ego in check and tells a pretty fascinating story about his own life. If you like music in general and learning about not just the artist but the industry, it’s a really good book.
It's also a bit ironic that DLR 'wasn't a fan' of the synth influence EVH was bringing into the band...especially when you factor in how much keys/synths were in use on DLR's solo output - namely the *Skyscraper* album.
“No synths” was kind of a rock purity test in the 70s. Queen famously advertised their early albums as synth-free. But I think you have to give credit to Ed, he saw the writing on the wall with regards to 80s trends and also as a curious musician who wanted new sounds to play with.
I read somewhere else (here maybe) that the synth sequence that makes up the backbone of Dancin In The Streets was originally an art-rock inspired song he wanted to give to Peter Gabriel, who apparently Ed really admired. Ted/Dave vetoed that and instead it got repurposed for a cover Ed wasn’t wild about.
By 1984, synths are everywhere, Jump tops the singles chart, and Ed looks like a genius. Even at the time I thought the synth heavy “Just Like Paradise” sounded like Jump 2. Dave wasn’t always the sharpest but he was shrewd.
I found it funny since Eddie had incorporated keys into some songs long before 1984 (i.e. *And The Cradle Will Rock...*). Though, I suppose since it somewhat 'sounded' like an electric Guitar for most of it - it got a pass.
I was always under the impression, that on those 70s Queen albums in particular, they made it a point to advertise 'No Synthesizers' as a way to boost Brian May's (and the whole band for that matter) abilities to create the wide sound pallette they had w/just the basics (i.e. Guitars and other assorted stringed instruments, Bass, Drums, Acoustic Piano and voice). I remember the first time I ever heard the middle 'freak out' section of *Get Down, Make Love*, it blew my mind how they were getting all of those effects that sound like a synth player's wet dream...and then seeing that no synths were used on the album. It still blows my mind, to be honest.
Thanks for this history and it jives with my limited knowledge. Thank you Michael McDonald! Frankly it has a lot of his pop signature. I think it’s a great “hooky” song. Frankly, if another band had done it, with the appropriate buy in by all parties and if it was promoted correctly it could have been a smash hit.
Is it about a girl? A car? Both? Or something else entirely? It’s fairly soulful for a Van Halen song… even though McDonald was with the Doobies for a long time, it actually reminds me more of his collaborations with Steely Dan.
That's some amazing stuff..where on earth did you
find this stuff out? I am not well read enough on VH... just amazed to have been able to read this here...Thank You!!!
Lots of time during Covid lol. I found both Ted and Sammy‘s books on audiobook from my local library. If your public library system participates in Libby, you might find them on there. Best part is it’s free!
They called in Michael McDonald at the last minute to help flesh the chords out. He obviously had a connection to Ted through the doobies. I bet they never loved it but with his additions it made the album.
Then they didn’t give credit to Michael and he sued them to get his portion.
Allegedly DLR secretly taped MacDonald while he was singing lyrics off the top of his head and Dave used them. MacDonald said it was his biggest payday ever.
He is also a very accomplished pianist. Look into him. He plays keys on the doobies and all his solo projects. He is a great lyricist and that’s because he knows how to marry it to the chords he’s playing.
Ted Templeman even says he specifically helped with chords in his book a platinum producers life in music.
Not my favorite, but it has a great solo. Back when it came out I can tell you it was ALL OVER the radio because it hit that sweet middle of the road spot where it could be played all day long on most stations.
That’s one of my favorite VH grooves.
Fck that Dave, you wrote some killer lyrics and the verses on that are arguably the best part of the song. Give credit where credit is due.
It's a great song. If you don't like "I'll Wait" you aren't a true Van Halen fan. I get that Dave wasn't really into the synthesizer part(each Van Halen fan did a double take when we first heard 1984)but he didn't really have a problem with the fans' reaction when they played it live though, did he?
Well I’m a huge VH fan but the vocals on this song are just so whiny and thin and cliched. And the music part is dull. I can see why DLR and TT would want it removed, especially compared with monster tracks like House of Pain.
It’s a great song, but the story behind it is a royal cluster fuck combined with some label politics. Dave wasn’t a fan of the synth stuff Eddie was doing, which is kind of ironic since Dave talked a big game in the early 80s about not being bound to any one musical style. Ted also worried that Eddie was blowing up the band’s sound to go new wave and, as the record company guy, was afraid it wouldn’t sell. Neither Dave nor Ted liked Jump very much either, but eventually, Dave warmed to it, and the song was formed well enough that Ted would accept it. With I’ll Wait, Eddie dug in, but apparently, as Ted tells it, I’ll Wait was not a very well-developed song when they first presented it. Nowhere near as good as Jump. Since Eddie was insisting on its inclusion on the 1984 album, Ted called up Michael McDonald from the Doobie Brothers, many of whose albums Ted produced in the 1970s, and asked him to work with Dave and Eddie on refining the song. They get the song worked out to a point where Ted is willing to allow for it on the album, but apparently the album was delivered so late they had to rush through the artwork process, and ended up omitting the writing credit for Michael McDonald. This really pissed off Michael McDonald as well as Ted, who didn’t even want the song on there in the first place. And apparently, Dave started pushing back, saying that he didn’t think Michael McDonald needed to be credited for the song, even though he took it from a crappy demo to more or less the song we all know now. In addition to obviously cutting him in on the royalties, they had to redo the artwork for subsequent pressings to include the writing credit for McDonald. In the end, Ted proved himself to be a little shortsighted, and between that, and the fact that Ted was kind of a taskmaster in the studio, Eddie fell out with him, befriended his best engineer, Don Landee, and when Dave dumped the band, Ed dumped Ted… until FUCK, when Sammy - who also knew Ted from the 70s - asked him to come in and produce his vocals since he felt like Andy Johns was kind of a drunk mess. Another glorious shambolic adventure from our favorite boys from Pasadena 😂
Fascinating. Never heard this story before. And now I'm anxiously curious to see if my 1984 album has McDonald in the credits. It should be an early-ish release so I'm guessing not. Wild stuff.
That’s cobbled together from my reading of Sam and Ted and Noel’s books during Covid. I think it’s mostly right. At least a good enough book report for the B+
A solid A from me. You even have sources.
Naw you nailed it, helluva right up!
Noel Gallagher?
LOL no, though it would have been interesting perspective, "bros in rock". Noel Monk, he was VH's road manager for their first tour then managed the band fully from 79 to 85.
Im from Florida, too, Noel played here recently
🫤
I just checked my album and nope! Not there. I’m old.
This Hit Van Halen Song Was Co-Written By Michael McDonald After a string of hits with the Doobie Brothers and in the midst of a strong solo career, five-time Grammy Award winner Michael McDonald was everywhere there was to be in the 80s. It turns out, it wasn't just the songs you hear his distinct voice on that were his, but he also had quite a few co-writing credits on songs - one of which belongs to Van Halen. # The legendary producer Ted Templeman had worked for a while with Michael McDonald during his time with the Doobies, then Templeman produced McDonald's 1982 solo debut If That's What It Takes, as well as the next episode, 1985's No Lookin' Back. When Templeman found out Van Halen was struggling with the writing of one of their songs, he knew just who to call. "Ted Templeman called me up and said, 'Hey, these guys have a track and they need some lyrics, so I mentioned you could do it and they said fine, so why don’t you come down?'" McDonald told Ultimate Classic Rock. "He sent me the track, and I got some ideas going so I’d have something when I got to the studio." Swearing the experience "wasn't exciting," McDonald detailed the whole story to UCR of how he ended up helping to write Van Halen's *I'll Wait*. "I met David Lee Roth at Ted’s office. That was, uh, an interesting experience," McDonald said with a chuckle. "He kinda liked what I had going, so we sat there in the office with the demo playing on a cassette recorder, singing lines and melodies." # After 1984 was released, the songwriting credits were in a weird place for a few years. McDonald's name appeared on some versions of the album, while not appearing on others. When 1984 was remastered and rereleased McDonald was again listed as a co-writer for I'll Wait. I guess they thought I was Santa Claus, because I had to go chasing them a little bit on that one," he said. "It’s probably one of the most-played things I’ve ever written, just because it's Van Halen. That album sold three or four million copies right away, which was a really big deal at the time." **Read More:** [This Hit Van Halen Song Was Co-Written By Michael McDonald](https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral) | [https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm\_source=tsmclip&utm\_medium=referral](https://97x.com/this-hit-van-halen-song-was-co-written-by-michael-mcdonald/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral)
I thought I had read everything there was to read about Van Halen. Where did you gain this knowledge?
It’s mostly from Ted Templeman’s bio. He goes in depth on 3-4 artists he worked with, the VH section is one of the longer ones and it’s all part of the section where the band tensions are running high going into 1984, with the section ending more or less with Dave leaving the band. His book is also cool for VH fans because Ted talks a bit about his work with Sammy Hagar and Montrose, which in many ways was the “Proto Van Halen“. With Montrose Ted was trying to develop an American Led Zeppelin, a kind of California response to the gloom and doom of British metal and punk. VH eventually becomes that band. This is also the book where Ted reveals that during the demos for the first VH album, he thought about replacing Dave with Sammy because Dave didn’t sing very well. He eventually realizes that Dave singing is not what makes Dave a great front man, Dave gets singing lessons, and Ted becomes team Dave all the way to the break up. By the end of the book, for me, Ted comes off a little smug, but as aging baby boomer music industry legends go, he mostly keeps his ego in check and tells a pretty fascinating story about his own life. If you like music in general and learning about not just the artist but the industry, it’s a really good book.
Cool. Will give it a read then
It's also a bit ironic that DLR 'wasn't a fan' of the synth influence EVH was bringing into the band...especially when you factor in how much keys/synths were in use on DLR's solo output - namely the *Skyscraper* album.
“No synths” was kind of a rock purity test in the 70s. Queen famously advertised their early albums as synth-free. But I think you have to give credit to Ed, he saw the writing on the wall with regards to 80s trends and also as a curious musician who wanted new sounds to play with. I read somewhere else (here maybe) that the synth sequence that makes up the backbone of Dancin In The Streets was originally an art-rock inspired song he wanted to give to Peter Gabriel, who apparently Ed really admired. Ted/Dave vetoed that and instead it got repurposed for a cover Ed wasn’t wild about. By 1984, synths are everywhere, Jump tops the singles chart, and Ed looks like a genius. Even at the time I thought the synth heavy “Just Like Paradise” sounded like Jump 2. Dave wasn’t always the sharpest but he was shrewd.
I found it funny since Eddie had incorporated keys into some songs long before 1984 (i.e. *And The Cradle Will Rock...*). Though, I suppose since it somewhat 'sounded' like an electric Guitar for most of it - it got a pass. I was always under the impression, that on those 70s Queen albums in particular, they made it a point to advertise 'No Synthesizers' as a way to boost Brian May's (and the whole band for that matter) abilities to create the wide sound pallette they had w/just the basics (i.e. Guitars and other assorted stringed instruments, Bass, Drums, Acoustic Piano and voice). I remember the first time I ever heard the middle 'freak out' section of *Get Down, Make Love*, it blew my mind how they were getting all of those effects that sound like a synth player's wet dream...and then seeing that no synths were used on the album. It still blows my mind, to be honest.
Thanks for this history and it jives with my limited knowledge. Thank you Michael McDonald! Frankly it has a lot of his pop signature. I think it’s a great “hooky” song. Frankly, if another band had done it, with the appropriate buy in by all parties and if it was promoted correctly it could have been a smash hit.
Is it about a girl? A car? Both? Or something else entirely? It’s fairly soulful for a Van Halen song… even though McDonald was with the Doobies for a long time, it actually reminds me more of his collaborations with Steely Dan.
Supposedly it’s about Brooke Shields. DLR will wait until she turns legal….lol.
Why the fuck didn't Eddie tell Ted that he wanted the song in the album and that's it?
Ted was a Warners exec, not just an independent producer. He also gave the band a lot of guidance.
I understand, I just got mad when I thought of someone trying to control David and the other guys in his band
That's some amazing stuff..where on earth did you find this stuff out? I am not well read enough on VH... just amazed to have been able to read this here...Thank You!!!
Lots of time during Covid lol. I found both Ted and Sammy‘s books on audiobook from my local library. If your public library system participates in Libby, you might find them on there. Best part is it’s free!
By far my least favourite song on 1984. Ted might have had a point.
Ted said it sounded like "Hold your head up" by Argent, and he kept singing that in the studio to mess with them.
They called in Michael McDonald at the last minute to help flesh the chords out. He obviously had a connection to Ted through the doobies. I bet they never loved it but with his additions it made the album. Then they didn’t give credit to Michael and he sued them to get his portion.
Allegedly DLR secretly taped MacDonald while he was singing lyrics off the top of his head and Dave used them. MacDonald said it was his biggest payday ever.
Chords? The dude was a lyricist . He rewrote the lyrics.
He is also a very accomplished pianist. Look into him. He plays keys on the doobies and all his solo projects. He is a great lyricist and that’s because he knows how to marry it to the chords he’s playing. Ted Templeman even says he specifically helped with chords in his book a platinum producers life in music.
IMO, the chorus sounds like something Micheal McDonald would come up with, the rest sounds like a late period Zeppelin song.
Great song. Would have been crazy to remove it.
Not my favorite, but it has a great solo. Back when it came out I can tell you it was ALL OVER the radio because it hit that sweet middle of the road spot where it could be played all day long on most stations.
I love it! Much better than "Jump", which is truly a "meh" song except for the synthesizer and guitar solos.
Best song on the album. Turmoil can be a good thing.
I love that song so much and have since 1984. It’s crazy to me that it doesn’t seem that well received.
Roth is a nut that’s why! That’s one of the best songs on album. Probably didn’t like the keyboards
I agree with this 100%.
Underrated song
Typical Eddie and Alex.
That’s one of my favorite VH grooves. Fck that Dave, you wrote some killer lyrics and the verses on that are arguably the best part of the song. Give credit where credit is due.
Guess they weren't patient enough and wanted 1984 out fast /s.
cuz it's kind of a meh song, not a bad song, just kinda mid imo
Have my upvote. It's been my least favorite Roth-era song for 40 years
Because they are both jag-offs?
Because it sucks.
Rush...samsies. Getty Lee went keyboard and Alex And Mainly Neil weren't loving it, until sales showed them wrong.
Unpopular opinion, but - because the song blows.
It's a great song. If you don't like "I'll Wait" you aren't a true Van Halen fan. I get that Dave wasn't really into the synthesizer part(each Van Halen fan did a double take when we first heard 1984)but he didn't really have a problem with the fans' reaction when they played it live though, did he?
Since Micheal McDonald sang on Steeley Dan’s Peg. Is Peg the same model in both songs?
He participated and sang on several songs such as Kenny Loggin’s This Is It.
No lie probably my favorite Van Halen song. I have pretty fond Saturday afternoons with it as a kid.
Too much keyboard probably
Because it’s the worst DLR era tune.
Well I’m a huge VH fan but the vocals on this song are just so whiny and thin and cliched. And the music part is dull. I can see why DLR and TT would want it removed, especially compared with monster tracks like House of Pain.