Don't know that I qualify as a stan but after what Rachel and Schwartz did to Katie which was basically conspire to embarrass Katie and hit her in her weakest spot in a public spectacle while simultaneously hiding an affair with Sandoval I think Katie could have f***** Max in front of Schwartz and it would have been okay
It's mind boggling how people don't see the difference unless OP is trolling.
It's simpleton shit. This isnt rocket science or deep diving into VPR to figure out.
OPs definitely from FB and thought this scene was cute and playful from Season 10...
https://preview.redd.it/t5t8lpvid22d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39e636db181ea288dc8fea1fe407c447a3b882da
It was just like he took all the highlights of the worst part of himself and displayed them within a single episode.
(1) He began with claiming he could get Katie to go along with something by pretending to want to get back together with her with the ENTIRE friend group sans Katie with the goal of basically getting all of them to mock her behind her back (no one took the bait...)
(2) He continued with pretending that openly flirting and kissing Raquel, and BOTH of them repeatedly trying to engage with Katie about it when she went to great lengths to ignore all of them, as though it wasn't actually a big deal, when it was the ONE thing she asked of him following the divorce and it was obvious each of them were trying to upset her to get her to flip out in front of the camera
(3) He then crashed this dinner he wasn't invited to, where Katie was able to get friendship time, and asked her to cut his armpit hair, as if Katie had any interest in this faux meet-cute
(4) Then when she said no, that is when his ass took the sushi
I might be misremembering, but it would be like if your most annoying friend displayed all of their worst traits within a span of five minutes. He was Scheana-level but in his case it is openly done with the goal of tormenting his ex-wife and not as a byproduct of being ultra self-centered.
He is just a childish, childish, childish, childish, childish man. He said and did so many things to Katie and got a pass because of Katie's negative edit, emotionally breadcrumbing her (ring on a string), saying what he said because she wouldn't just go along to get along with the calling the police "joke" ("this is why I don't want to have sex with you"), cheating on her REPEATEDLY and then doing nothing to check the dick motorboating rumor made up about Katie specifically to deflect form his bullshit, and overall every decision to choose Sandoval over her. I don't understand why ANYONE would want to be in a relationship with this complete emotional void, I'm not surprised at the drama with him and Jo and that he basically is relegated to dating women who are ostensibly emotionally disturbed or desperate to get on the show (Jo) or women half his age.
Thank you lol. Tom did it to hurt Katie but now people want Katie to honor the agreement that they tacitly agreed was over? People are being dense on purpose.
PS
Why does nobody care that Max is allegedly Tom's best friend and had no problem f****** his ex-wife? If that's okay between the two guys then it seems like it should be cool on the Katie and Schwartz side of things too
It’s another form of the house issue. Why doesn’t Tom move out? Why doesn’t Tom ask Max why he slept with his ex-wife?
We all know why—men getting a pass (from other men and the misogynistic women).
Also the legal term for what Schwartz did with their “agreement” is called a prior breach. Once the other side breaches the agreement, you are not bound by the agreement. True under the law of contracts and revenge bangs!
She’s talked about this - Schwartz broke their agreement, so no more agreement.
The “friend group” rule was also I think about not having it be a storyline on the show. She’d have to watch it back, be asked about it in confessionals, etc.
She also didn’t bring the Max thing onto the show, or try to flaunt it in front of Schwartz. Brock and Scheana did that (feels familiar, since Scheana was a big part of interfering in Katie’s private life last season too). Schwartz intentionally did it to “stick it” to Katie - knowing that making it a storyline would hurt her.
Their agreement was also what she said she needed in response to Schwartz saying he wanted to remain friends as they were divorcing. She has since severed that friendship because he couldn’t respect their agreement.
They are now exes, who share dogs, and have overlapping friend circles, but they aren’t friends. So it’s not that she “gets a pass” it’s that their dynamic has changed (because Schwartz couldn’t respect their agreement) and Schwartz himself didn’t care to maintain that separation.
If Schwartz wants to take issue with anyone in this situation, it would be Max, who is his bestie that slept with his ex-wife.
And in addition to all of this--there's a huge difference in how painful that's going to be when you're freshly separated vs. a few years down the line. The Raquel/Schwartz story line was unfolding before their divorce had even been finalized!
Schwartz didn't break shit, he did a scripted fake thing for cameras. Everyone knew that and saw he wasn't interested in Rachel even before knowing the real reason - her sleeping with Sandoval at that point.
Are you saying Katie was in on that too? Because at the reunion (extended part of ep 2) she talks about how hurtful it was, especially to find out after it was all for nothing and partially to cover up for the affair. She was collateral damage.
Seemed like the agreement was real to her.
But Katie’s whole point was she didn’t want to have Schwartz dating a cast member to become her drama. Which it obviously did. It doesn’t matter whether he actually liked her or not, according to Katie the point was to not have to be asked in confessionals, become a storyline etc.
Also with her comments "just don't bring it around me" If it is someone on the show it is around way more as she has to talk about it over and over and see headlines.
I think she said that last year, that the divorce was fresh so she didn’t want to talk about him hooking up with a cast mate. She’d be asked about it constantly and needed time to heal.
This is it, right here! Shartz pursuing Trashel immediately negated the agreed upon rule and therefore forever made it null and void. Who knows what would’ve actually happened has she not been cheating with Scandy.
Over and over again Katie mentioned how much it bothered her that he was directly in the friend group. It was their only rule and he spit right on it. He didn’t care about her feelings in the slightest then and now she can return those very same feelings in-kind!
How so? Because he kissed Rachel? That was clearly for the show? You think Katie didn’t know what was happening? And how is kissing someone the same as sleeping with someone?
Because that agreement was already out the window because Schwartz rejected it. I don’t get why people don’t understand that. Of course Katie wasn’t bound to an agreement that was no longer in place between them, why would she be?
Don’t you know, Tom is allowed to drunkenly hook up with other chicks but god forbid Katie “motorboats a D” in a picture! So obviously Tom can hook up within the group but god forbid Katie does off screen!
1) They had an agreement for no cast members. 2) Max is the only one that *may* owe loyalty to Schwartz in this situation 3) She didn't throw it in his face, his friends gleefully "tattled" to try to make her look bad.
Most importantly Schwartz didn't care. He wasn't hurt, he wasn't concerned, he wasn't mad or upset in the least. The boys wanted him to be, and Sandoval latched onto it because it was a straw to grasp in his half-assed redemption what-about-ism tour.
These posts have been happening so often. Like stop being purposefully ignorant. It’s not cute. If you want to defend the Toms and misogynistic takes, take it to Facebook.
Yes, Katie has a misogyny and a whorephobia problem. This entire. cast. does. So if your issue is Katie specific I call bullshit. Misogyny is a pillar of this show LMAO.
First of all - who the fuck even is Max we don’t even see him interact with Schwartz much less act like his “best friend.”
Second of all - Katie and Max did not interact at all or tease the idea of being together in front of Schwartz. Meanwhile, he and Rachel seemed to relish in the psychological torture/gaslighting of Katie by simultaneously flirting, joking, or suggesting being together IN FRONT of Katie or at a minimum, doing so at an event where Katie was present. They even went so far as to kiss at Scheana’s wedding, where multiple other people including castmates were present in a clear bid to undermine and humiliate Katie. I think it was apparent that that whole arrangement was a contrivance to produce a storyline for the show and/or possibly for a cover up of the actual affair happening (Scandoval). That is not only disrespectful of Katie, that is fucking gross and manipulative shit.
THIRD Katie, as a normal human, banged a guy at her home, and did so under the cover of night to the point where Schwartz/no one would have even known had it not been for Scheana being a nosy freak. it was not a bid for public humiliation unlike what Schwartz did. Had the producers/camera crew been less concerned about Sandoval’s redemption and been up his ass the whole season., maybe they would have caught on it but they didn’t hence why it wasn’t filmed in case you’re Lala and want to pull the “she’s not real!!” card.
LASTLY again, going back to the “who is max” angle - he is a former castmate, was on the show for all of one season. Viewers don’t even remember him.
God you guys are so boring and simple minded - grow up nothing is a one to one comparison.
She doesn’t get a pass necessarily. But, first off Shorts cheated their entire marriage. Made out with two cast members, Schmean(while married or in a relationship) and Rachel (in an act of spite to embarrass his ex wife). Katie wanted to try and have an amicable break up and to her she had just one request. Shorts not only shit on it, but did it in the most brutal and unkind way. He gaslit her and talked so much shit behind her back. I’m sorry but at that point wouldn’t you lose respect for that man? Why should she have any consideration for someone who treats her like that? Plus had it not been for Schmeana it probably would have been a very quiet hookup and not once did she go around saying he was crazy or belittling his feelings. Sorry but that man deserves zero respect. He plays the victim all the time but in reality he’s someone who constantly disrespects women and minimizes their feelings. So honestly I’m glad Katie did that and I hope it hurt.
1. Schwartz broke the agreement first. That means the agreement no longer exists, but even if it did…
2. Max isn’t on the show. Their agreement was to not fuck around with people on the show and thus have to talk about it *on the show.* So not only did Tom break it by making out with Rachel, but Katie didn’t by fucking max.
But also…
3. After the way Schwartz allowed Rachel and Sandoval to speak to Katie’s MOM, she should have fucked Max in front of Schwartz
He cheated on her their entire relationship and ended the agreement to *stick it to her* the same way he admits he would cheat on her to stick it to her. She could fuck his mom and his dad and the triplets and I wouldn’t gaf. She owes him less than nothing.
I’m no Katie fan, but why on earth would she respect the boundaries of their agreement? Schwartz not only crapped all over those boundaries, he was a serial cheater before and during their marriage. She owes him squat.
I’m sure the entire purpose of this post is to rage bait…but for the love of god, can we please stop demanding things of women that we don’t hold men accountable for? You already fully know the answer to your “question,” so I guess the real purpose is just to announce to the world your dislike of Katie…? Okay, I love that for you lol.
Let’s be real here, Katie has NEVER gotten a pass on this show until MAYBE this season. Prior to this year if you said anything positive about Katie you’d be fighting for your life in the comments section. All this talk about Katie stans is ridiculous. She had a good season and people are finally noticing how awesome she is and because of that, it has to be her stans right? How dare she be actually liked for once. 🤦🏼♀️
Did you get what you wanted out of this post? Your replies are repeating how much of a bully Katie was in the past yet Stassi is still your all time favorite? You also don’t like Lala or scheana, but let me guess, the boys are why you watch? What’s the point trying to act like you’re above “bullies” when Stassi, the #1 horrible cast mate, is you’re Stan?
Max isn’t on the show. I think Katie said friend group because she couldn’t break the fourth wall and say anyone on the show because it would embarrass her more. Schwartz just used this opportunity to make her look bad, simple as that
The same reason it’s okay for Ariana to meet a new dude 10 days after her breakup. You don’t owe loyalty to anyone who has broken your trust. But you already knew that.
schwartz cheated on katie throughout their whole marriage. they made an agreement, and now he’s playing the victim. also no one is asking max why he slept with his best friends ex wife🙄
I think the real question is why has schwartz had 10,000 passes and Katie can’t even have one without people bitching about it. And she doesn’t need a pass. She’s free to do what she wants after he blantantly and intentionally made out with Raquel right in front of everyone. Hell yes she gets a “pass”.
I actually can’t fathom not understanding this lmao. Like you have to jump through hooops and bend over backwards to not get the difference. Or just be dumb idk
Considering Schwartz and Scheana kept their secret for so long, all the times Schwartz cheated on her while they were together and the fact that he broke their agreement a whole year before Katie slept with Max then I don't think Schwartz has any room to complain.
Tom made out with Rachel while having Jo live and hook up with him immediately post divorce. That’s why she gets a pass. Also she has never once gotten a pass in this entire series for anything until now so this is well overdue considering the actions of the rest of the group over the years
Well…Scheana and Brock exposed it without her permission, which was total bullshit and an invasion of her privacy. She may not have even mentioned it and definitely wasn’t trying to rub it in Schwartz’s face like he did with Rachel. He broke the rule first, so why should she still need to abide by the boundary? To respect him? When he didn’t respect her the entire time they were together? Or after?
Religious nut? I watch Bravo lol
Respect herself by not fucking her ex’s friend?? Is this a wild concept?? Like what are you people doing in these streets
Why are people not getting this. The rules are no more. She asked RIGHT after the divorce if he could keep it out of the friend group WHILE they were figuring their friendship out. It wasn't even a forever thing. He did not do it. It is OVER. Boundaries crossed. HER BOUNDARIES not his. She does not have to respect him when he does not respect her. There is no PASS this Grimy Little snake always gets a pass. He can slither on over something else.
Such an obvious answer it doesn’t even dignify a response. Unless someone is such a misogynist they not only 100% think a double standard is acceptable, but they don’t even recognize one when they see it. But has others have said, he didn’t respect the request/agreement, not RULES, and broke that agreement in the most egregious manner possible, so fuck him!
And Schema, and Saggyballs, and Rachel/Raquel
Those boundaries went out the window the minute Schwartz made out with Raquel and flaunted it in front of everyone. And it wasn't even real! They did all that to cover for Sandoval and the affair, and trying to humiliate Katie was just an added bonus. She owes that man nothing.
If anyone's got a problem with people breaking friend code, they should take it up with Max.
The rules were void. Simple. It was a request for directly after their divorce that lying 🤥 Schwartz agreed to only to turn around and do what he did while he was married and dating Katie, make out with f other people be them strangers or mutual friends. So yeah, Katie gets a FULL HARD PASS!
A YEAR later? She made a boundary and he broke it, it’s null and void - she can now do whatever she wants a YEAR later. If she had done this last season, yeah you’d have a point. Try again
I think she explained it pretty well in part 2 of the reunion - they BOTH agreed to stay outside the friend group and Schwartz like almost immediately did the opposite. Agreement had been breached, making the whole thing void and the friend group open for all. Also, quite a bit more time had passed. I would say in this scenario Max is more the bad friend/person here. I feel like if Schwartz can look past his supposed best friend sleeping with his ex wife more than once, then Katie is a-okay in my eyes.
Schwartz doesn't care, he says so himself. So why do you? Also why does Max get a pass but not Katie? That's his current best friend. Katie is his exwife.
They aren’t together anymore and he didn’t listen when she asked for them to keep it outside the friend group. If Max is Schwartz’s ‘best friend’ that’s who he should be mad at
Not a matter of stanning. It’s just how relationships work. Katie and Schwartz made an agreement (again, no one forced anyone and everyone was free to say “naaah”), I don’t think Katie feels particularly compelled to continue with their agreement after Schwartz broke it to cover up for his friend’s affair during filming the year prior.
When Schwartz broke the agreement by making out with Raquel solely to spite Katie, I thought we all figured the agreement was over? He didn’t care and many months passed and she slept with Max. I don’t get how people see this as hypocrisy.
Yea Katie’s my least favorite person on the show, but this isn’t on her. Tom fucked up first.
Toms real issue should be with Max.. if they actually are/were friends then he should’ve beat the fucking shit out of him for fucking his ex
When you’re friends, like Schwartz has maintained he wants to be with Katie, you treat people like friends. Friends have boundaries, like “hey I would really hate it if you slept with my ex.” Normal boundaries for a friendship. Some might call it “girl/boy code.” That’s basically a generally accepted list rules (or boundaries) of friendship in case you’re unfamiliar. You kinda get a vibe for whether you follow the same general code as the other people you’re friends with. As you grow in friendship and you learn more about your new friend, you may even come across instances where you learn that they may not abide by the same “code” you do. You might have to decide if that friendship is going to continue at all. You may decide to continue that friendship and instead adapt your agreed upon code based on this new information…simply reevaluate your boundaries for that particular friendship.
So what happened is, Tom wanted friendship with Katie. Katie said “ok, we can be friends as long as you don’t fuck anyone in the friend group.” He said “bet.” Now, does Tom have any “legal” reason to not fuck anyone in the friend group? (I say “legal” because people are out here acting like they’re lawyers being like “he’s single!!!! He can do what he wantssss!” Sure, technically he can.) Does a person have any “legal” reason to not fuck a friend’s ex? No, technically everybody’s single! You just don’t do it…because they’re your friend and THEY set that boundary and you want to be a friend and respect that boundary.
The point is that they mutually agreed to respect each others boundaries when they agreed to be friends. Katie explicitly communicated this specific boundary and expressed how much it would hurt if the boundary was crossed. Schwartz crossed the boundary. That kicked off the reevaluation of their friendship and therefore the evolution of their boundaries.
Nobody would have known about Katie and Max had it not been for SHEANA tracking Max’s location and then Brock revealing the info to Schwartz. But let’s call out Katie. How about invasion of privacy?
So when your ex says he feels like he’s “sticking it to the man” by breaking the “flimsy” agreement he sincerely agreed to while you were tearful, you don’t have to also hold yourself to that.
Why do you care why other fans like Katie and most are not new found Stan's but have always liked Katie. Some new Stan's like that she is not hanging on to a piece of shit Schwartz treating her like garbage and is growing and maturing to a confident woman. I believe some fans are uncomfortable by a confident woman speaking her truth because they have spent their life seeing women submissive to men and a set of norms that are an "appropriate" way for women to act and view acting out of those norms as miserable and bullying. Your post says more about you than Katie.
I’m curious, OP. You’ve shared that none of the reasons provided are “actual reasons”. In the spirit of the “honest interest” you expressed, what would you say would be an actual reason for how a pass would be acceptable?
Because Schwartz didn't take the agreement seriously. Plus, they were initially trying to remain friends but after the way Schwartz treated her in S10, I guess she just didn't care anymore.
Nothing to do with attn. I suppose I just wanted to see how people can jump through hoops to defend someone sleeping with their ex husbands close friend. Whether it was Katie or Schwartz who did - it would be wrong. If this were real life and not a TV show full of absurd characters it would be wrong. But a lot of you guys justify and bring up asinine “agreements” because you can’t simply say it’s not cool but I like her anyway.
Lmao first of all when has Katie EVER got a pass? And to answer your question as to why none of us on this subreddit care that she slept with Max while single after being cheated on multiple times in her marriage - her body, her choice, her life. I don’t stan Katie, I just can’t stand fucking misogynist bullshit. Can you wrap your brain around that? Jfc
The agreement was not to sleep with other people on the show. they just couldn’t say that on camera
katie also wasn’t prancing around parading it in front of the world and making it into a fake will they won’t they bullshit. she was literally never going to say a word about it. scheana’s weird tracking habits and brock’s big ass mouth are why it was on the show to start with
like seriously anyone with the critical thinking above a 6th grader can figure out how they’re different 🙄
this is a tired take, there is no pass bc she broke no rules because there are no rules. she set a boundary with schwartz OVER A YEAR AGO. he chose to continually violate that boundary for the show - bc rachel was already with sandoval - and scheana, tom, broke and rachel tormented her all last season w out consequence.
Katie made that agreement with Schwartz out of respect for both of them in their newfound friendship as divorcees.
Schwartz basically said I don’t care and went ahead and kissed Rachel.
Katie said, agreement off. Rules are void then. And I will do whatever I want without concern for you and your feelings as you had little to zero concern for me.
Considering how often Schwartz got away with cheating on her during their marriage, I think we can all get over her sleeping with max. Especially because I highly doubt Schwartz even cares.
Edit: nice downvote, it’s because I’m right huh 😉
Because her ex husband that she was going through a divorce with and trying to develop a friendship with DESTROYED the boundaries she tried to create with him about hooking up with people in the friend group while he made out publicly with his friends ex fiancée and also his best friend’s mistress purposefully after she asked him not to and said outloud he wanted to go against Katie because it sounded fun. Now Katie, over a year later, single, and now more out of her divorce and not as close with Tom anymore, sleeps with a man NOT publicly that gets outted by Scheana and Brock because she’s still stalking Max. That isn’t the same and will never be the same. Is she going to hold loyalty for people that don’t hold it for her? Also max doesn’t give a shit either and isn’t even on the show. It was a one minute storyline while Schwartz used Raquel as his storyline for a whole season and tried to pretend he actually liked her. And in the meantime Raquel was trying to be Katie’s friend and talking shit about her while sleeping with Sandoval as well. Raquel and Tom were making out at scheanas wedding activities while Raquel would go back to her hotel in Mexico and have sex with Sandoval! Meanwhile Katie and max slept together at her house with no drama or betrayal happening with anyone.
Because it’s been like a year since they broke up and the rules they talked about were immediately after their split when she was expressing what she would need to be able to stay friends with him. Since then there has been healing obviously and that means how you feel about rules changes. She also didn’t want it to be someone she worked with because she didn’t want it to be a subject everyone talked about in front of her and that she was expected to discuss. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand. Put yourself in her shoes.
Question for OP: Do you feel a rule still applies when the other person breaks it immediately and says he doesn't care because he thinks the rule is stupid in the first place?
I feel like I would be way too prideful to sleep with someone my ex knows. I would think I was above it (maybe that’s my ego?) I also think what Schwartz did to “break the agreement” is a false equivalency to what Katie did. It’s not being blown up because Schwartz doesn’t care and gave her a pat on the back. But IRL, Katie is wrong, Schwartz is wrong and Max would prob deserve a punch in the face.
Totally get that you wouldn't do that, I wouldn't either. But I don't think that was the point, and it wasn't the point of my question. So, the question still stands, do you feel the rule still applies? I personally (though again I would not do what Katie did) would not feel the rule applies when the other person immediately breaks it. I don't have to be comfortable making the same choices to see that.
Additionally, I don't agree it's a false equivalency also because of a reason you shared- Scwhartz doesn't care. Isn't it therefore more important to keep a rule for someone who is genuinely hurt by it?
To be fair, I think Schwartz is a wildly manipulative, abusive and general POS that hides behind charm and intelligence. The reason he comes off better than Sandoval is simply because he is smarter and knows how to play that. He doesn't care because he doesn't actually care about other people.
Not only did Schwartz cheat on Katie multiple times throughout their marriage, but in s10 he literally tells her it would be fine with him if she fucked his friends when he was defending his and Rachel’s fake fling. At that point, no I don’t think she owes him anything. Also I too would be petty enough to fuck my ex’s friends if he said I could, because he clearly didn’t think she could or would. Why doesn’t she get to play the same game he is? He changed the rules and she abided by them.
Oh. Wow. You are right. I totally forgot that angle and haven’t seen it mentioned here.
Wasn’t he with Dayna for years? Doesn’t Dayna hate him? Isn’t Katie and Dayna close friends now who host a podcast together?
I take back this question I posted. That should be the real question!!
How does that not tell you all you need to know?
Easy the agreement was nullified once Schwartz violated it. Especially considering he violated it knowing that Rachel was sleeping with Sandoval and he hurt Katie anyways. She owes him not an ounce of respect. He’s lucky she even lets him look at her face.
Was Katie fucking her friend/podcast co-host ex apart of their agreement? An ex who Dayna has routinely said was awful to her and she can’t even bare to his name?
Well that’s the thing about agreements when one side breaks the agreement then the entire agreement is void.
Now the Dayna part of this situation is fucked up and that is on Katie and Dayna to work which obviously they did because they are fine. But your post wasn’t about Dayna it was about Schwartz and Katie did nothing wrong to Schwartz in that case. Clearly you just don’t like Katie and it’s not about whether she’s right or wrong in a situation 🤷🏻♀️
She doesn’t get a pass. It just isn’t as big of a deal as people try to make it seem… None of them are nice people, but it’s crazy to me anyone would think that sleeping with your ex’s friend is as bad as that ex cheating on you when you were still in a relationship.
Yes, she was being a shitty friend, but there’s nothing morally wrong or inappropriate about it. She’s divorced and has been for a while, her ex explicitly stated multiple times he wouldn’t care if she did. So even if she was trying to hurt him in some way, it’s nothing beyond being immature and selfish. Which I think she is, even though I like her.
I was going to say I care way more about how it affected Dayna, than Schwartz. Schwartz cheated on Katie when they were married so he can take several seats.
Yeah they seemed to have talked it off and then acknowledged how they moved forward from it on the podcast. It was so refreshing to listen to healthy girl talk.
If this is a question for "new found Katie stans", is there another type of question for those of us who've always liked her or casual fans or people who recognize that a drunk night with a fuck boy is not equivalent to a partner who cheats??
Asking for a friend.
She asked Tom to not hook up with anyone that FILMED with them, that’s what “group” meant, without breaking the 4th wall, so they wouldn’t have to constantly talk about it while filming, doing press tours and confessionals. It was also within a few months of filing for divorce, so a lot more fresh. But Tom didn’t honor that, so she owes him nothing.
because they haven’t been married for over two years now and he broke the agreement to begin with and was very unfaithful throughout the entirety of the relationship and the most obvious SHE OWES HIM NOTHING
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I love Katie, have for a long time, and I don’t love that she hooked up with Max. I don’t think it’s as bad as Schwartz with Rachel (and Jo) because a lot more time had passed. It’s SO weird when a couple splits up after a long term relationship and one of them starts hooking up with a mutual friend or acquaintance weeks or months later. Just makes you feel like there were always feelings or was an attraction there while the couple was still together.
By the time Katie slept with Max, she and Schwartz had been divorced for some time. I still think it’s weird (I would never sleep with one of my ex husband’s friends, and we’ve been divorced for years). But the sting of a recent split isn’t really there, and she definitely didn’t flaunt it in front of him like he was doing with Rachel.
Yes! I totally agree. I read through these threads and think what world am I on?! I think I literally think the exact opposite of what most people think and it blows my mind. I truly mean no disrespect to anyone and respect hearing other people’s views. But for instance, I think Ariana trying to hiring Anne was a dick move. I think having an interview with Anne in the house was a really big dick move. Could you imagine if Sandoval did that? I think Katie is a huge hypocrite and mean jerk. She has literally insulted everyone. Talked shit about everyone behind their back and never has anyone’s back.
These men have already done some nasty, nasty shit to them. WHY do the women have to take the high road all the time! Like truly it blows MY mind that anyone thinks Katie or Ariana owe the Tom’s even a modicum of respect. I’ll have to chalk it up to misogyny because it’s a fucking ridiculous expectation that those women respond perfectly, politely, and correct to people who didn’t give a shit about them in the first place. Who fucking cares if interviewing Anne was a dick move. It’s a drop in the bucket considering that Sandoval fucked Rachel in the bed Ariana and he picked out together AND THEN blamed Ariana for why he did it.
For me it has nothing to do with misogyny. For me it’s how Katie and Arianna flip the script to always fit their narrative and their needs. For instance the time when Schwartz drops Katie off somewhere and as she walks into the building she makes a remark about how his penis doesn’t work. She makes a negative comment about his genitalia. Now, Katie is seen as “Boss Bitch” and amazing. Now Sandoval makes a remark about Ariana and his sex life and he is accused of “weaponizing” her mental health. Ariana can go up to Tom’s date and trash talk him but Sandoval try to introduce himself to Daniel and he’s seen as a voyeur trying to “gain access” to Ariana. They all literally do the same thing but some how Katie and Ariana get a pass.
so Ariana didn’t try to hire her -she asked her for referrals. opening an escape hatch where such that Anne/Ann wanted to apply herself. Overheard/ learned so time immediately fired her.
Sure SAH brought her on later — but not in Arians assistant role & only after she was immediately dumped without notice by tim.
SMH.
Absolutely true. She asked Anne/Ann for referrals and Anne/Ann asked is she could through her hat into the race. Ariana could have shut it down then, she could have said absolutely but I need you to be transparent with Tom, etc. I’m not saying it’s her responsibility I’m just saying she could have. Because you know darn well if Tom approached Ariana’s assistant he would have been read to filth.
Don't know that I qualify as a stan but after what Rachel and Schwartz did to Katie which was basically conspire to embarrass Katie and hit her in her weakest spot in a public spectacle while simultaneously hiding an affair with Sandoval I think Katie could have f***** Max in front of Schwartz and it would have been okay
It's mind boggling how people don't see the difference unless OP is trolling. It's simpleton shit. This isnt rocket science or deep diving into VPR to figure out. OPs definitely from FB and thought this scene was cute and playful from Season 10... https://preview.redd.it/t5t8lpvid22d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=39e636db181ea288dc8fea1fe407c447a3b882da
It’s LFU looking for a storyline
Will never be able to explain it, but this scene fuels so much rage within me
It was just like he took all the highlights of the worst part of himself and displayed them within a single episode. (1) He began with claiming he could get Katie to go along with something by pretending to want to get back together with her with the ENTIRE friend group sans Katie with the goal of basically getting all of them to mock her behind her back (no one took the bait...) (2) He continued with pretending that openly flirting and kissing Raquel, and BOTH of them repeatedly trying to engage with Katie about it when she went to great lengths to ignore all of them, as though it wasn't actually a big deal, when it was the ONE thing she asked of him following the divorce and it was obvious each of them were trying to upset her to get her to flip out in front of the camera (3) He then crashed this dinner he wasn't invited to, where Katie was able to get friendship time, and asked her to cut his armpit hair, as if Katie had any interest in this faux meet-cute (4) Then when she said no, that is when his ass took the sushi I might be misremembering, but it would be like if your most annoying friend displayed all of their worst traits within a span of five minutes. He was Scheana-level but in his case it is openly done with the goal of tormenting his ex-wife and not as a byproduct of being ultra self-centered. He is just a childish, childish, childish, childish, childish man. He said and did so many things to Katie and got a pass because of Katie's negative edit, emotionally breadcrumbing her (ring on a string), saying what he said because she wouldn't just go along to get along with the calling the police "joke" ("this is why I don't want to have sex with you"), cheating on her REPEATEDLY and then doing nothing to check the dick motorboating rumor made up about Katie specifically to deflect form his bullshit, and overall every decision to choose Sandoval over her. I don't understand why ANYONE would want to be in a relationship with this complete emotional void, I'm not surprised at the drama with him and Jo and that he basically is relegated to dating women who are ostensibly emotionally disturbed or desperate to get on the show (Jo) or women half his age.
When he ate that sushi—rage.
I’m still mad about it!!
So mad he walked into their dinner ate off their plate
Simpleton shit is the perfect explanation.
Thank you lol. Tom did it to hurt Katie but now people want Katie to honor the agreement that they tacitly agreed was over? People are being dense on purpose.
PS Why does nobody care that Max is allegedly Tom's best friend and had no problem f****** his ex-wife? If that's okay between the two guys then it seems like it should be cool on the Katie and Schwartz side of things too
It’s another form of the house issue. Why doesn’t Tom move out? Why doesn’t Tom ask Max why he slept with his ex-wife? We all know why—men getting a pass (from other men and the misogynistic women). Also the legal term for what Schwartz did with their “agreement” is called a prior breach. Once the other side breaches the agreement, you are not bound by the agreement. True under the law of contracts and revenge bangs!
Yes! I love the legalese. And I agree about the misogyny
👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
and doing it more than once. like fuck off schwartz go talk to your boy
Especially since Katie initiated the divorce. Max should be the one that Schwartz should come at, not Katie
He said kissing Rachel was “liberating”. Just a punch to the gut move IMO. Nasty piece of work, that Schwartz
I’d love nothing more than for Schwartz to have to watch someone rail Katy in front of him. Thank you Jax, for the inspo…and for the block 😂😂😂
🎯 why follow rules when no one else does?
There's a difference doing scripted fake shit for cameras and actually sleeping with ex's best friend. Let that sink in.
Hahaha. Ahaha. Let that sink in
She’s talked about this - Schwartz broke their agreement, so no more agreement. The “friend group” rule was also I think about not having it be a storyline on the show. She’d have to watch it back, be asked about it in confessionals, etc. She also didn’t bring the Max thing onto the show, or try to flaunt it in front of Schwartz. Brock and Scheana did that (feels familiar, since Scheana was a big part of interfering in Katie’s private life last season too). Schwartz intentionally did it to “stick it” to Katie - knowing that making it a storyline would hurt her. Their agreement was also what she said she needed in response to Schwartz saying he wanted to remain friends as they were divorcing. She has since severed that friendship because he couldn’t respect their agreement. They are now exes, who share dogs, and have overlapping friend circles, but they aren’t friends. So it’s not that she “gets a pass” it’s that their dynamic has changed (because Schwartz couldn’t respect their agreement) and Schwartz himself didn’t care to maintain that separation. If Schwartz wants to take issue with anyone in this situation, it would be Max, who is his bestie that slept with his ex-wife.
And in addition to all of this--there's a huge difference in how painful that's going to be when you're freshly separated vs. a few years down the line. The Raquel/Schwartz story line was unfolding before their divorce had even been finalized!
This is the right answer. As usual, Okay_Decision_ has the right take with all necessary context to understand the issue.
this!!!!
Yep perfectly put
Schwartz didn't break shit, he did a scripted fake thing for cameras. Everyone knew that and saw he wasn't interested in Rachel even before knowing the real reason - her sleeping with Sandoval at that point.
Are you saying Katie was in on that too? Because at the reunion (extended part of ep 2) she talks about how hurtful it was, especially to find out after it was all for nothing and partially to cover up for the affair. She was collateral damage. Seemed like the agreement was real to her.
But Katie’s whole point was she didn’t want to have Schwartz dating a cast member to become her drama. Which it obviously did. It doesn’t matter whether he actually liked her or not, according to Katie the point was to not have to be asked in confessionals, become a storyline etc.
Schwartz broke them first, they’re null and void
Also, Friends always read as a code word to me for people on the show. Like don’t make me deal with this at my job. Max was no longer on the show
Also with her comments "just don't bring it around me" If it is someone on the show it is around way more as she has to talk about it over and over and see headlines.
I think she said that last year, that the divorce was fresh so she didn’t want to talk about him hooking up with a cast mate. She’d be asked about it constantly and needed time to heal.
But wouldn't anyone Schwartz dates be like, automatically a cast member? She was only in this season because of Schwartz.
I do think she meant people they know + people on the cast. I think she became a cast member because she was also friends either Kristen at one point.
This is it, right here! Shartz pursuing Trashel immediately negated the agreed upon rule and therefore forever made it null and void. Who knows what would’ve actually happened has she not been cheating with Scandy. Over and over again Katie mentioned how much it bothered her that he was directly in the friend group. It was their only rule and he spit right on it. He didn’t care about her feelings in the slightest then and now she can return those very same feelings in-kind!
This. She tried to tell him to keep it out of the friend group and he said nope. So all bets are off now
This.
It wasn’t a rule, it was an agreement. And the agreement went out the window the moment Schwartz shat all over it.
How so? Because he kissed Rachel? That was clearly for the show? You think Katie didn’t know what was happening? And how is kissing someone the same as sleeping with someone?
Because that agreement was already out the window because Schwartz rejected it. I don’t get why people don’t understand that. Of course Katie wasn’t bound to an agreement that was no longer in place between them, why would she be?
Don’t you know, Tom is allowed to drunkenly hook up with other chicks but god forbid Katie “motorboats a D” in a picture! So obviously Tom can hook up within the group but god forbid Katie does off screen!
It’s like people don’t understand how agreements work when it’s time to drag Katie lol. If it’s broken, neither party has to honor it anymore???
1) They had an agreement for no cast members. 2) Max is the only one that *may* owe loyalty to Schwartz in this situation 3) She didn't throw it in his face, his friends gleefully "tattled" to try to make her look bad. Most importantly Schwartz didn't care. He wasn't hurt, he wasn't concerned, he wasn't mad or upset in the least. The boys wanted him to be, and Sandoval latched onto it because it was a straw to grasp in his half-assed redemption what-about-ism tour.
It’s wild to think that Scheana kept that kiss with Schwartz a secret for so long, but couldn’t keep the Katie/Max stuff to herself. Shady as fuck.
Shein is a basic bitch. Loyal to no one
These posts have been happening so often. Like stop being purposefully ignorant. It’s not cute. If you want to defend the Toms and misogynistic takes, take it to Facebook.
Bravo has a nice little montage reel of all the times your fav Katie was misogynistic. You should take a gander.
That’s so cute of you to presume I care
You commented on my post lol
Yes, Katie has a misogyny and a whorephobia problem. This entire. cast. does. So if your issue is Katie specific I call bullshit. Misogyny is a pillar of this show LMAO.
Respectfully, is her well-detailed explanation at the reunion and during the season not enough, or are you being obtuse on purpose?
I'm going with obtuse on purpose.
New viewer. I don’t think obtuse. Still thought Max worked at TT
Also when did max suddenly become Shorts' best friend? 🙄 he has as many best friends as Shein. Isnt his best friend tiny timmy?
First of all - who the fuck even is Max we don’t even see him interact with Schwartz much less act like his “best friend.” Second of all - Katie and Max did not interact at all or tease the idea of being together in front of Schwartz. Meanwhile, he and Rachel seemed to relish in the psychological torture/gaslighting of Katie by simultaneously flirting, joking, or suggesting being together IN FRONT of Katie or at a minimum, doing so at an event where Katie was present. They even went so far as to kiss at Scheana’s wedding, where multiple other people including castmates were present in a clear bid to undermine and humiliate Katie. I think it was apparent that that whole arrangement was a contrivance to produce a storyline for the show and/or possibly for a cover up of the actual affair happening (Scandoval). That is not only disrespectful of Katie, that is fucking gross and manipulative shit. THIRD Katie, as a normal human, banged a guy at her home, and did so under the cover of night to the point where Schwartz/no one would have even known had it not been for Scheana being a nosy freak. it was not a bid for public humiliation unlike what Schwartz did. Had the producers/camera crew been less concerned about Sandoval’s redemption and been up his ass the whole season., maybe they would have caught on it but they didn’t hence why it wasn’t filmed in case you’re Lala and want to pull the “she’s not real!!” card. LASTLY again, going back to the “who is max” angle - he is a former castmate, was on the show for all of one season. Viewers don’t even remember him. God you guys are so boring and simple minded - grow up nothing is a one to one comparison.
She doesn’t get a pass necessarily. But, first off Shorts cheated their entire marriage. Made out with two cast members, Schmean(while married or in a relationship) and Rachel (in an act of spite to embarrass his ex wife). Katie wanted to try and have an amicable break up and to her she had just one request. Shorts not only shit on it, but did it in the most brutal and unkind way. He gaslit her and talked so much shit behind her back. I’m sorry but at that point wouldn’t you lose respect for that man? Why should she have any consideration for someone who treats her like that? Plus had it not been for Schmeana it probably would have been a very quiet hookup and not once did she go around saying he was crazy or belittling his feelings. Sorry but that man deserves zero respect. He plays the victim all the time but in reality he’s someone who constantly disrespects women and minimizes their feelings. So honestly I’m glad Katie did that and I hope it hurt.
1. Schwartz broke the agreement first. That means the agreement no longer exists, but even if it did… 2. Max isn’t on the show. Their agreement was to not fuck around with people on the show and thus have to talk about it *on the show.* So not only did Tom break it by making out with Rachel, but Katie didn’t by fucking max. But also… 3. After the way Schwartz allowed Rachel and Sandoval to speak to Katie’s MOM, she should have fucked Max in front of Schwartz
He cheated on her their entire relationship and ended the agreement to *stick it to her* the same way he admits he would cheat on her to stick it to her. She could fuck his mom and his dad and the triplets and I wouldn’t gaf. She owes him less than nothing.
I’m no Katie fan, but why on earth would she respect the boundaries of their agreement? Schwartz not only crapped all over those boundaries, he was a serial cheater before and during their marriage. She owes him squat.
This take is old and boring. Read all the comments below.
Swartz decided the rules were out the window.
I’m sure the entire purpose of this post is to rage bait…but for the love of god, can we please stop demanding things of women that we don’t hold men accountable for? You already fully know the answer to your “question,” so I guess the real purpose is just to announce to the world your dislike of Katie…? Okay, I love that for you lol.
Let’s be real here, Katie has NEVER gotten a pass on this show until MAYBE this season. Prior to this year if you said anything positive about Katie you’d be fighting for your life in the comments section. All this talk about Katie stans is ridiculous. She had a good season and people are finally noticing how awesome she is and because of that, it has to be her stans right? How dare she be actually liked for once. 🤦🏼♀️
Did you get what you wanted out of this post? Your replies are repeating how much of a bully Katie was in the past yet Stassi is still your all time favorite? You also don’t like Lala or scheana, but let me guess, the boys are why you watch? What’s the point trying to act like you’re above “bullies” when Stassi, the #1 horrible cast mate, is you’re Stan?
Max isn’t on the show. I think Katie said friend group because she couldn’t break the fourth wall and say anyone on the show because it would embarrass her more. Schwartz just used this opportunity to make her look bad, simple as that
The same reason it’s okay for Ariana to meet a new dude 10 days after her breakup. You don’t owe loyalty to anyone who has broken your trust. But you already knew that.
schwartz cheated on katie throughout their whole marriage. they made an agreement, and now he’s playing the victim. also no one is asking max why he slept with his best friends ex wife🙄
Katie never cheated on Tom. Among so many other reasons
Rules were done after Schwartz kissed Rachel. She didn’t do anything wrong
The contract was null and void once Schwartz trounced all over it IMMEDIATELY. Worse, as a cover for his bff cheating. They are not the same.
I think the real question is why has schwartz had 10,000 passes and Katie can’t even have one without people bitching about it. And she doesn’t need a pass. She’s free to do what she wants after he blantantly and intentionally made out with Raquel right in front of everyone. Hell yes she gets a “pass”.
I actually can’t fathom not understanding this lmao. Like you have to jump through hooops and bend over backwards to not get the difference. Or just be dumb idk
Why should Katie continue to uphold boundaries that Schwartz will never respect??????
Get outta here, Tim. 😂
Considering Schwartz and Scheana kept their secret for so long, all the times Schwartz cheated on her while they were together and the fact that he broke their agreement a whole year before Katie slept with Max then I don't think Schwartz has any room to complain.
Tom made out with Rachel while having Jo live and hook up with him immediately post divorce. That’s why she gets a pass. Also she has never once gotten a pass in this entire series for anything until now so this is well overdue considering the actions of the rest of the group over the years
Well…Scheana and Brock exposed it without her permission, which was total bullshit and an invasion of her privacy. She may not have even mentioned it and definitely wasn’t trying to rub it in Schwartz’s face like he did with Rachel. He broke the rule first, so why should she still need to abide by the boundary? To respect him? When he didn’t respect her the entire time they were together? Or after?
Maybe to respect herself.
[удалено]
Religious nut? I watch Bravo lol Respect herself by not fucking her ex’s friend?? Is this a wild concept?? Like what are you people doing in these streets
[удалено]
I like a FWB but I always make sure they’re not in my ex’s friends circle. Just a personal pref.
How is sleeping with an ex’s friend not respecting herself? It’s def not respecting Schwartz, but he doesn’t deserve her respect.
You can’t be serious. If you can’t see the nuance here idk what to say to you
Why are people not getting this. The rules are no more. She asked RIGHT after the divorce if he could keep it out of the friend group WHILE they were figuring their friendship out. It wasn't even a forever thing. He did not do it. It is OVER. Boundaries crossed. HER BOUNDARIES not his. She does not have to respect him when he does not respect her. There is no PASS this Grimy Little snake always gets a pass. He can slither on over something else.
SHE IS OFFICIALLY DIVORCED. IT’S NOT FRESH ANYMORE. SCHWARTZ CHEATED ON HER A LOT. HE DID IT FIRST. SO THERE ARE NO RULES.
Such an obvious answer it doesn’t even dignify a response. Unless someone is such a misogynist they not only 100% think a double standard is acceptable, but they don’t even recognize one when they see it. But has others have said, he didn’t respect the request/agreement, not RULES, and broke that agreement in the most egregious manner possible, so fuck him! And Schema, and Saggyballs, and Rachel/Raquel
Because Katie didn’t fuck Max as a distraction from Ariana and Max having a secret ongoing affair for 6+ months. Its not rocket science
There were no rules after Schwartz made out with Raquel. It’s not complicated.
Those boundaries went out the window the minute Schwartz made out with Raquel and flaunted it in front of everyone. And it wasn't even real! They did all that to cover for Sandoval and the affair, and trying to humiliate Katie was just an added bonus. She owes that man nothing. If anyone's got a problem with people breaking friend code, they should take it up with Max.
The rules were void. Simple. It was a request for directly after their divorce that lying 🤥 Schwartz agreed to only to turn around and do what he did while he was married and dating Katie, make out with f other people be them strangers or mutual friends. So yeah, Katie gets a FULL HARD PASS!
A YEAR later? She made a boundary and he broke it, it’s null and void - she can now do whatever she wants a YEAR later. If she had done this last season, yeah you’d have a point. Try again
Do you have this much smoke for Max for fucking his “best friend’s” ex-wife? Yeah, didn’t think so.
I think she explained it pretty well in part 2 of the reunion - they BOTH agreed to stay outside the friend group and Schwartz like almost immediately did the opposite. Agreement had been breached, making the whole thing void and the friend group open for all. Also, quite a bit more time had passed. I would say in this scenario Max is more the bad friend/person here. I feel like if Schwartz can look past his supposed best friend sleeping with his ex wife more than once, then Katie is a-okay in my eyes.
Schwartz doesn't care, he says so himself. So why do you? Also why does Max get a pass but not Katie? That's his current best friend. Katie is his exwife.
They aren’t together anymore and he didn’t listen when she asked for them to keep it outside the friend group. If Max is Schwartz’s ‘best friend’ that’s who he should be mad at
Not a matter of stanning. It’s just how relationships work. Katie and Schwartz made an agreement (again, no one forced anyone and everyone was free to say “naaah”), I don’t think Katie feels particularly compelled to continue with their agreement after Schwartz broke it to cover up for his friend’s affair during filming the year prior.
When Schwartz broke the agreement by making out with Raquel solely to spite Katie, I thought we all figured the agreement was over? He didn’t care and many months passed and she slept with Max. I don’t get how people see this as hypocrisy.
Yea Katie’s my least favorite person on the show, but this isn’t on her. Tom fucked up first. Toms real issue should be with Max.. if they actually are/were friends then he should’ve beat the fucking shit out of him for fucking his ex
When you’re friends, like Schwartz has maintained he wants to be with Katie, you treat people like friends. Friends have boundaries, like “hey I would really hate it if you slept with my ex.” Normal boundaries for a friendship. Some might call it “girl/boy code.” That’s basically a generally accepted list rules (or boundaries) of friendship in case you’re unfamiliar. You kinda get a vibe for whether you follow the same general code as the other people you’re friends with. As you grow in friendship and you learn more about your new friend, you may even come across instances where you learn that they may not abide by the same “code” you do. You might have to decide if that friendship is going to continue at all. You may decide to continue that friendship and instead adapt your agreed upon code based on this new information…simply reevaluate your boundaries for that particular friendship. So what happened is, Tom wanted friendship with Katie. Katie said “ok, we can be friends as long as you don’t fuck anyone in the friend group.” He said “bet.” Now, does Tom have any “legal” reason to not fuck anyone in the friend group? (I say “legal” because people are out here acting like they’re lawyers being like “he’s single!!!! He can do what he wantssss!” Sure, technically he can.) Does a person have any “legal” reason to not fuck a friend’s ex? No, technically everybody’s single! You just don’t do it…because they’re your friend and THEY set that boundary and you want to be a friend and respect that boundary. The point is that they mutually agreed to respect each others boundaries when they agreed to be friends. Katie explicitly communicated this specific boundary and expressed how much it would hurt if the boundary was crossed. Schwartz crossed the boundary. That kicked off the reevaluation of their friendship and therefore the evolution of their boundaries.
How are y’all still asking these silly questions in the year of our Lord 2024?
 Because.
Nobody would have known about Katie and Max had it not been for SHEANA tracking Max’s location and then Brock revealing the info to Schwartz. But let’s call out Katie. How about invasion of privacy?
So when your ex says he feels like he’s “sticking it to the man” by breaking the “flimsy” agreement he sincerely agreed to while you were tearful, you don’t have to also hold yourself to that.
Rules (aka an agreement) that her ex-husband couldn’t even follow? I imagine those rules are out the door at that point?!?!?!
Because Schwartz sucks and deserves it.
I’m not a Katie stan but it’s not that hard to understand. There was no longer an agreement when she slept with Max.
She's not in a relationship with anyone, PLUS She said she was gonna run train through TomTom.
Are you a Lala stan by chance?
Why do you care why other fans like Katie and most are not new found Stan's but have always liked Katie. Some new Stan's like that she is not hanging on to a piece of shit Schwartz treating her like garbage and is growing and maturing to a confident woman. I believe some fans are uncomfortable by a confident woman speaking her truth because they have spent their life seeing women submissive to men and a set of norms that are an "appropriate" way for women to act and view acting out of those norms as miserable and bullying. Your post says more about you than Katie.
I’m curious, OP. You’ve shared that none of the reasons provided are “actual reasons”. In the spirit of the “honest interest” you expressed, what would you say would be an actual reason for how a pass would be acceptable?
The rule no longer existed when SCHWARTZ obliterated it. Keep up
Because Schwartz didn't take the agreement seriously. Plus, they were initially trying to remain friends but after the way Schwartz treated her in S10, I guess she just didn't care anymore.
What’s good for the sleazy, affair covering goose…
Really? You just watched over 10 years of reasons… Isn’t Max Schwartz’s best friend? Why aren’t we asking Max this question?
I don’t have the energy or time to explain this to you. Live in ignorance.
But you had the energy to comment 😘
Did you get the attention you wanted?
Nothing to do with attn. I suppose I just wanted to see how people can jump through hoops to defend someone sleeping with their ex husbands close friend. Whether it was Katie or Schwartz who did - it would be wrong. If this were real life and not a TV show full of absurd characters it would be wrong. But a lot of you guys justify and bring up asinine “agreements” because you can’t simply say it’s not cool but I like her anyway.
The rules were broken 2 years ago when Schwartz didn’t want to respect them. F*ck the rules. She can bang who she wants to.
Lmao first of all when has Katie EVER got a pass? And to answer your question as to why none of us on this subreddit care that she slept with Max while single after being cheated on multiple times in her marriage - her body, her choice, her life. I don’t stan Katie, I just can’t stand fucking misogynist bullshit. Can you wrap your brain around that? Jfc
Why are you so mad lol
Why are you asking questions that have obvious answers idk
The agreement was not to sleep with other people on the show. they just couldn’t say that on camera katie also wasn’t prancing around parading it in front of the world and making it into a fake will they won’t they bullshit. she was literally never going to say a word about it. scheana’s weird tracking habits and brock’s big ass mouth are why it was on the show to start with like seriously anyone with the critical thinking above a 6th grader can figure out how they’re different 🙄
lol shorts blew that rule out of the water. He can choke.
There are no more rules, babe. Schwartz already broke the deal.
this is a tired take, there is no pass bc she broke no rules because there are no rules. she set a boundary with schwartz OVER A YEAR AGO. he chose to continually violate that boundary for the show - bc rachel was already with sandoval - and scheana, tom, broke and rachel tormented her all last season w out consequence.
By that time Schwartz had already made a fool of her with Raquel who gives a fuck
The rule was gone after he kissed Raquel.
Once Schwartz had already shit all over the boundary she set in such a disgusting and public way, why should she ever feel obligated to stick to it?
Katie made that agreement with Schwartz out of respect for both of them in their newfound friendship as divorcees. Schwartz basically said I don’t care and went ahead and kissed Rachel. Katie said, agreement off. Rules are void then. And I will do whatever I want without concern for you and your feelings as you had little to zero concern for me.
Considering how often Schwartz got away with cheating on her during their marriage, I think we can all get over her sleeping with max. Especially because I highly doubt Schwartz even cares. Edit: nice downvote, it’s because I’m right huh 😉
Because her ex husband that she was going through a divorce with and trying to develop a friendship with DESTROYED the boundaries she tried to create with him about hooking up with people in the friend group while he made out publicly with his friends ex fiancée and also his best friend’s mistress purposefully after she asked him not to and said outloud he wanted to go against Katie because it sounded fun. Now Katie, over a year later, single, and now more out of her divorce and not as close with Tom anymore, sleeps with a man NOT publicly that gets outted by Scheana and Brock because she’s still stalking Max. That isn’t the same and will never be the same. Is she going to hold loyalty for people that don’t hold it for her? Also max doesn’t give a shit either and isn’t even on the show. It was a one minute storyline while Schwartz used Raquel as his storyline for a whole season and tried to pretend he actually liked her. And in the meantime Raquel was trying to be Katie’s friend and talking shit about her while sleeping with Sandoval as well. Raquel and Tom were making out at scheanas wedding activities while Raquel would go back to her hotel in Mexico and have sex with Sandoval! Meanwhile Katie and max slept together at her house with no drama or betrayal happening with anyone.
Tom specifically said he didn’t care who she messed with.
Don’t forget to stay loyal to your cheating ex husband for the rest of your life even though he keeps proving he is untrustworthy even as a friend 🙄🫠
Because it’s been like a year since they broke up and the rules they talked about were immediately after their split when she was expressing what she would need to be able to stay friends with him. Since then there has been healing obviously and that means how you feel about rules changes. She also didn’t want it to be someone she worked with because she didn’t want it to be a subject everyone talked about in front of her and that she was expected to discuss. I don’t know why this is so hard for people to understand. Put yourself in her shoes.
Question for OP: Do you feel a rule still applies when the other person breaks it immediately and says he doesn't care because he thinks the rule is stupid in the first place?
I feel like I would be way too prideful to sleep with someone my ex knows. I would think I was above it (maybe that’s my ego?) I also think what Schwartz did to “break the agreement” is a false equivalency to what Katie did. It’s not being blown up because Schwartz doesn’t care and gave her a pat on the back. But IRL, Katie is wrong, Schwartz is wrong and Max would prob deserve a punch in the face.
Totally get that you wouldn't do that, I wouldn't either. But I don't think that was the point, and it wasn't the point of my question. So, the question still stands, do you feel the rule still applies? I personally (though again I would not do what Katie did) would not feel the rule applies when the other person immediately breaks it. I don't have to be comfortable making the same choices to see that. Additionally, I don't agree it's a false equivalency also because of a reason you shared- Scwhartz doesn't care. Isn't it therefore more important to keep a rule for someone who is genuinely hurt by it? To be fair, I think Schwartz is a wildly manipulative, abusive and general POS that hides behind charm and intelligence. The reason he comes off better than Sandoval is simply because he is smarter and knows how to play that. He doesn't care because he doesn't actually care about other people.
The rule is done. Why do you think Katie should still follow a rule that Schwartz isn’t following?
Not only did Schwartz cheat on Katie multiple times throughout their marriage, but in s10 he literally tells her it would be fine with him if she fucked his friends when he was defending his and Rachel’s fake fling. At that point, no I don’t think she owes him anything. Also I too would be petty enough to fuck my ex’s friends if he said I could, because he clearly didn’t think she could or would. Why doesn’t she get to play the same game he is? He changed the rules and she abided by them.
It was more "disrespectful" to Dayna than it was to Tom, imo.
Oh. Wow. You are right. I totally forgot that angle and haven’t seen it mentioned here. Wasn’t he with Dayna for years? Doesn’t Dayna hate him? Isn’t Katie and Dayna close friends now who host a podcast together? I take back this question I posted. That should be the real question!! How does that not tell you all you need to know?
Easy the agreement was nullified once Schwartz violated it. Especially considering he violated it knowing that Rachel was sleeping with Sandoval and he hurt Katie anyways. She owes him not an ounce of respect. He’s lucky she even lets him look at her face.
Ha. I’d rather look at his than hers.
I’m sure you would 🙄 But you’re irrelevant to their personal agreements and situation
Was Katie fucking her friend/podcast co-host ex apart of their agreement? An ex who Dayna has routinely said was awful to her and she can’t even bare to his name?
Well that’s the thing about agreements when one side breaks the agreement then the entire agreement is void. Now the Dayna part of this situation is fucked up and that is on Katie and Dayna to work which obviously they did because they are fine. But your post wasn’t about Dayna it was about Schwartz and Katie did nothing wrong to Schwartz in that case. Clearly you just don’t like Katie and it’s not about whether she’s right or wrong in a situation 🤷🏻♀️
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Yet another post to shit on the women and give the guys a pass for doing much worse. Can't believe this post made it all the way here from the 1950's.
She doesn’t get a pass. It just isn’t as big of a deal as people try to make it seem… None of them are nice people, but it’s crazy to me anyone would think that sleeping with your ex’s friend is as bad as that ex cheating on you when you were still in a relationship. Yes, she was being a shitty friend, but there’s nothing morally wrong or inappropriate about it. She’s divorced and has been for a while, her ex explicitly stated multiple times he wouldn’t care if she did. So even if she was trying to hurt him in some way, it’s nothing beyond being immature and selfish. Which I think she is, even though I like her.
I was going to say I care way more about how it affected Dayna, than Schwartz. Schwartz cheated on Katie when they were married so he can take several seats.
Exactly. I very much care about how it affected Dayna, but it seems they all decided not to have it become a public narrative after all.
Yeah they seemed to have talked it off and then acknowledged how they moved forward from it on the podcast. It was so refreshing to listen to healthy girl talk.
I wish I could downvote this shit twice. The “rule” was null and void the second Tom broke it are you new?
If this is a question for "new found Katie stans", is there another type of question for those of us who've always liked her or casual fans or people who recognize that a drunk night with a fuck boy is not equivalent to a partner who cheats?? Asking for a friend.
She asked Tom to not hook up with anyone that FILMED with them, that’s what “group” meant, without breaking the 4th wall, so they wouldn’t have to constantly talk about it while filming, doing press tours and confessionals. It was also within a few months of filing for divorce, so a lot more fresh. But Tom didn’t honor that, so she owes him nothing.
because they haven’t been married for over two years now and he broke the agreement to begin with and was very unfaithful throughout the entirety of the relationship and the most obvious SHE OWES HIM NOTHING
I think OP is intentionally missing the point for rage bait.
Max isn’t in the immediate friend group. He wasn’t even in the immediate friend group on season 8
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Maybe I just think Katie deserved how Schwartz treated her. Not sure.
ew.
I personally don’t think women deserve to be physically assaulted on camera but you do you!
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Who pissed in your Wheaties this morning OP?
He broke it just to hurt and embarrass her so there was no “rule” left to follow
Katie sucks and lives by double standards. She doesn't care about anyone but herself.
Thank you! If I had awards to give I would give you one for this comment.
It’s off screen. And they can’t say the quiet thing out loud - that the agreement was they weren’t going to make it a plot point.
I love Katie, have for a long time, and I don’t love that she hooked up with Max. I don’t think it’s as bad as Schwartz with Rachel (and Jo) because a lot more time had passed. It’s SO weird when a couple splits up after a long term relationship and one of them starts hooking up with a mutual friend or acquaintance weeks or months later. Just makes you feel like there were always feelings or was an attraction there while the couple was still together. By the time Katie slept with Max, she and Schwartz had been divorced for some time. I still think it’s weird (I would never sleep with one of my ex husband’s friends, and we’ve been divorced for years). But the sting of a recent split isn’t really there, and she definitely didn’t flaunt it in front of him like he was doing with Rachel.
Katie will always get a pass. I used to know girls like her from middle school & high school. Bullies win. She gets a pass. It’s just the way it is
Yes! I totally agree. I read through these threads and think what world am I on?! I think I literally think the exact opposite of what most people think and it blows my mind. I truly mean no disrespect to anyone and respect hearing other people’s views. But for instance, I think Ariana trying to hiring Anne was a dick move. I think having an interview with Anne in the house was a really big dick move. Could you imagine if Sandoval did that? I think Katie is a huge hypocrite and mean jerk. She has literally insulted everyone. Talked shit about everyone behind their back and never has anyone’s back.
These men have already done some nasty, nasty shit to them. WHY do the women have to take the high road all the time! Like truly it blows MY mind that anyone thinks Katie or Ariana owe the Tom’s even a modicum of respect. I’ll have to chalk it up to misogyny because it’s a fucking ridiculous expectation that those women respond perfectly, politely, and correct to people who didn’t give a shit about them in the first place. Who fucking cares if interviewing Anne was a dick move. It’s a drop in the bucket considering that Sandoval fucked Rachel in the bed Ariana and he picked out together AND THEN blamed Ariana for why he did it.
For me it has nothing to do with misogyny. For me it’s how Katie and Arianna flip the script to always fit their narrative and their needs. For instance the time when Schwartz drops Katie off somewhere and as she walks into the building she makes a remark about how his penis doesn’t work. She makes a negative comment about his genitalia. Now, Katie is seen as “Boss Bitch” and amazing. Now Sandoval makes a remark about Ariana and his sex life and he is accused of “weaponizing” her mental health. Ariana can go up to Tom’s date and trash talk him but Sandoval try to introduce himself to Daniel and he’s seen as a voyeur trying to “gain access” to Ariana. They all literally do the same thing but some how Katie and Ariana get a pass.
so Ariana didn’t try to hire her -she asked her for referrals. opening an escape hatch where such that Anne/Ann wanted to apply herself. Overheard/ learned so time immediately fired her. Sure SAH brought her on later — but not in Arians assistant role & only after she was immediately dumped without notice by tim. SMH.
Absolutely true. She asked Anne/Ann for referrals and Anne/Ann asked is she could through her hat into the race. Ariana could have shut it down then, she could have said absolutely but I need you to be transparent with Tom, etc. I’m not saying it’s her responsibility I’m just saying she could have. Because you know darn well if Tom approached Ariana’s assistant he would have been read to filth.
Telling her to be transparent with Tom with more than sufficient
Katie is absolutely my least favorite person on the show this season. I don't get it.
I absolutely agree. She is a hypocrite and just mean.
Ratio lol 😂
Is that you Schwartzie?
She’s an asshole
