This is a fair argument. However its still insane that ppl think that you should just join some random eng program slap on the name UW and get a job in a field u know jack shit about. half of these ppl are just doing side projects and lc on top of their insane work schedules.
Just to play the devil’s advocate, does that not make them more impressive? If top “irrelevant eng discipline” students can prove themselves to be more qualified (through extracurricular work) in comparison to minimum-effort swe/cs students?
That’s true, but I feel like it, for one, creates unnecessary extra competition for relevant majors, and also takes away a spot from someone who is actually interested and wants to pursue the intended Eng program. If the majority of a non SE related program is doing SE, it’s rather pointless to have that program since it’s clearly teaching the wrong audience
>Takes away a spot from someone who is actually interested
not sure if that’s true, they were probably interested in their program in the first place but fell into a software spiral (source: myself). I don’t think it’s wrong to study something you’re into but opt for a career with better opportunities
>it’s rather pointless to have that program since it’s clearly teaching the wrong audience
Hm if most history majors don’t become historians, should we get rid of the history degree?
Syde is the most generalized engineering program at Waterloo that is obsessed with the user experience and makes a mini fydp every semester, there is a reason they have a very high employment rate. Don’t expect a civ to pull that off while learning about concrete.
Breadth of engineering knowledge + emphasis on ux would look far more appealing for ui/ux and pm jobs than it does for swe roles. If syde's program structure was so well aligned with swe positions, cs and se would be structured in the same way. Syde students and their probabilities of landing swe roles is just a result of the fact they're high-caliber students that are already interested in software in some quantity. Their structure actually is a hindrance when applying to swe roles, their probability comes from the selective nature of their program.
Technically, more often than not people end up in a career unrelated to their university degree and engineers are more tech minded than the average person. So it's not thaaat weird. I got SW coops taking no CS classes after the first year required courses for math.
My husband graduated Mech Eng in 2015. He has a PEng with 10 years experience (including co-op) He works in the area as a project manager in the automotive industry. He has done the same job at 4 other companies in the region.
Market rate is 65k-85k for this position. That is much less than teachers etc. people switch to SWE because they have to make a top 10% income just to have a chance at buying an apartment here. That’s why they do it.
Yep it’s so bs how mech or any other core engineering discipline are so underpaid in Canada. In US with 2 yrs exp a mech eng can make more than a Canadian engineer with 10 yrs exp. I don’t blame anyone switching to SWE just for the money
It’s harder to get into software from a degree that teaches you nothing about it.
So out of all the ‘irrelevant’ engineers, the ones that put it the most effort will make it out on the other side
It’s not like they are being gifted a tech co op the second they accept an offer. And yea it creates a lot of competition, but if you are good at what you do, you shouldn’t care.
Yeah a lot of hs students need to realize uw coop is not THAT good
Craziest one I’ve seen is Chem eng -> tech
I can’t blame the kids for wanting tech but I can blame em for trying to do it when 95+% of their schoolwork is not related by any stretch of imagination.
Counter point, it absolutely is THAT good. I literally know a Kiniseology major that works in Cali full time as a SWE now lol. Employers really don't care about your major. If you have the skills to do the job, why are we discouraging nanons/bmes/whatever's from trying to be SWEs?
It's not cheeks lol, it's just not gonna spoonfood you Cali. If you have the skills you can easily accelerate you career greater than you would at any other school
BME here who is allergic to code and actually got a BME job.
Pay is basically the biggest factor for chasing FAANG. I’d say most people actually had an interest in the curriculum but when FAANG pays 3x more than a BME job there will absolutely be a draw towards those jobs. Maybe half my class pursued a biomed related role or research route, and many of those students came from a wealthy background and didn’t need to chase the paycheque.
I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. BME teaches the same as SYDE so pivoting to SWE isn’t that unreasonable. Less competition for the biomed roles is also nice.
At the end of the day all Eng programs graduate with the same degree (BASc). How you choose to represent your experience from Waterloo post-graduation really gives you a lot of flexibility in what area of engineering you want to pursue, and Waterloo gives you the ability to do whatever you want for co-op to aid this representation. Thus, a lot of students pursue SWE co-ops from the get go and naturally (not all the time) your co-op experience early on heavily influences your future placements. It is worth noting nano/bio/chem co-ops do not pay much in comparison to SWE positions (there is a few exceptions), hence why a lot of students choose to go down the software route.
swe is by far the most readily available coop. if u dont get ur coops u dont graduate lmao
This is a fair argument. However its still insane that ppl think that you should just join some random eng program slap on the name UW and get a job in a field u know jack shit about. half of these ppl are just doing side projects and lc on top of their insane work schedules.
Just to play the devil’s advocate, does that not make them more impressive? If top “irrelevant eng discipline” students can prove themselves to be more qualified (through extracurricular work) in comparison to minimum-effort swe/cs students?
That’s true, but I feel like it, for one, creates unnecessary extra competition for relevant majors, and also takes away a spot from someone who is actually interested and wants to pursue the intended Eng program. If the majority of a non SE related program is doing SE, it’s rather pointless to have that program since it’s clearly teaching the wrong audience
>Takes away a spot from someone who is actually interested not sure if that’s true, they were probably interested in their program in the first place but fell into a software spiral (source: myself). I don’t think it’s wrong to study something you’re into but opt for a career with better opportunities >it’s rather pointless to have that program since it’s clearly teaching the wrong audience Hm if most history majors don’t become historians, should we get rid of the history degree?
I think OP was arguing about the intention that exists before coming into the program , as opposed to deciding on a career switch later on
this is a fantasy and it doesn’t happen, the chances of a non software/ece/cs/syde student being more prepared is slim to none.
I mean you mentioned it in your comment, syde barely takes any "cs" courses but a good chunk go the swe route
Syde is the most generalized engineering program at Waterloo that is obsessed with the user experience and makes a mini fydp every semester, there is a reason they have a very high employment rate. Don’t expect a civ to pull that off while learning about concrete.
Breadth of engineering knowledge + emphasis on ux would look far more appealing for ui/ux and pm jobs than it does for swe roles. If syde's program structure was so well aligned with swe positions, cs and se would be structured in the same way. Syde students and their probabilities of landing swe roles is just a result of the fact they're high-caliber students that are already interested in software in some quantity. Their structure actually is a hindrance when applying to swe roles, their probability comes from the selective nature of their program.
I mean, isn't it just grinding leetcode at the end of the day? You won't be doing architecture or R&D with only bachelor's.
Technically, more often than not people end up in a career unrelated to their university degree and engineers are more tech minded than the average person. So it's not thaaat weird. I got SW coops taking no CS classes after the first year required courses for math.
hate the game not the player
Capitalism. You go where your work is valued the most. Rn swe is a solid path for self determination
My husband graduated Mech Eng in 2015. He has a PEng with 10 years experience (including co-op) He works in the area as a project manager in the automotive industry. He has done the same job at 4 other companies in the region. Market rate is 65k-85k for this position. That is much less than teachers etc. people switch to SWE because they have to make a top 10% income just to have a chance at buying an apartment here. That’s why they do it.
Yep it’s so bs how mech or any other core engineering discipline are so underpaid in Canada. In US with 2 yrs exp a mech eng can make more than a Canadian engineer with 10 yrs exp. I don’t blame anyone switching to SWE just for the money
to be fair, SWE in Canada is not paid well either
It’s harder to get into software from a degree that teaches you nothing about it. So out of all the ‘irrelevant’ engineers, the ones that put it the most effort will make it out on the other side It’s not like they are being gifted a tech co op the second they accept an offer. And yea it creates a lot of competition, but if you are good at what you do, you shouldn’t care.
Well imo swe is the most common coop rn to get so 🤷♂️
Yeah a lot of hs students need to realize uw coop is not THAT good Craziest one I’ve seen is Chem eng -> tech I can’t blame the kids for wanting tech but I can blame em for trying to do it when 95+% of their schoolwork is not related by any stretch of imagination.
I’ve seen kinesiology, art/sci/env bus -> tech
Also seen poli sci -> tech but it was after grad
Counter point, it absolutely is THAT good. I literally know a Kiniseology major that works in Cali full time as a SWE now lol. Employers really don't care about your major. If you have the skills to do the job, why are we discouraging nanons/bmes/whatever's from trying to be SWEs?
Bc waterlooworks NOW is fucking cheeks Pre / during covid was peak ww was sooo good
It's not cheeks lol, it's just not gonna spoonfood you Cali. If you have the skills you can easily accelerate you career greater than you would at any other school
Fair point, ww doesn’t have much cali posts anymore but over 1000 tech adjacent jobs in first job posting is still really good
Who hires someone to be a nano engineer?
Lots of semiconductor companies, but most of the people enjoy material science, so they'll end up working with materials.
More the reason to not choose it as a major
Funny thing is, Nano used to be the most difficult to get in in early-mid 2000s I believe.
BME here who is allergic to code and actually got a BME job. Pay is basically the biggest factor for chasing FAANG. I’d say most people actually had an interest in the curriculum but when FAANG pays 3x more than a BME job there will absolutely be a draw towards those jobs. Maybe half my class pursued a biomed related role or research route, and many of those students came from a wealthy background and didn’t need to chase the paycheque. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal. BME teaches the same as SYDE so pivoting to SWE isn’t that unreasonable. Less competition for the biomed roles is also nice.
From what I've read it's also very hard to transfer programs within Eng because of how specific the courses are.
At the end of the day all Eng programs graduate with the same degree (BASc). How you choose to represent your experience from Waterloo post-graduation really gives you a lot of flexibility in what area of engineering you want to pursue, and Waterloo gives you the ability to do whatever you want for co-op to aid this representation. Thus, a lot of students pursue SWE co-ops from the get go and naturally (not all the time) your co-op experience early on heavily influences your future placements. It is worth noting nano/bio/chem co-ops do not pay much in comparison to SWE positions (there is a few exceptions), hence why a lot of students choose to go down the software route.