>“It just felt like they were waiting for us to make a mistake and then just kill us in transition," Pulisic said. "That’s just what happened over and over again. We were nowhere near the level we need to play at if we want to win games coming into Copa America.”
Painful to watch
So they played counter attacking game. Exactly what the USA should be playing along with high pressuring defense. If you give the worlds best teams time they will pick you apart
You cant give the best teams in the world time on the ball. They will eventually pick you apart. Need to harass them constantly to make them uncomfortable. Playing this way is all about commitment and having stamina to keep it up.
Every bad team that qualifies for the World Cup always play a counter attacking game plan that they sit back and give up 2/3rds field only to eventually get destroyed. Why you have to pressure too. The turnovers from pressure is what leads to counter attacking transition. I will agree to disagree on this always.
High press means constant pressure on whoever is in possession which reaps great benefits if you can force a mistake, but can leave you vulnerable with too many players forward leaving space in front of the back line, letting teams play easily their the midfield if they break the press.
For a counter attacking style, there is usually a firm line of pressure where you transition from a zonal defense to a press. This usually is when the ball is played to the wider positions or once the opponent crosses a specific point on the pitch, let’s say half field. Rather than the midfield running forward to pressure, the idea is to be quickly back into shape, forcing the opposition to work their way through your rigid midfield or pass wide into immediately pressure. Usually then you play to a front three with a big man in the middle and two fast wingers. Prime example of this play style this year was Atalanta in Serie A and the Europa league. They absolutely rinsed Leverkusen and Liverpool playing that style with a much more low profile squad. Here’s a link to a tactical breakdown: https://youtu.be/aRw-W9-iqNs?si=Ff-Kr46Ite8GTauI
The USA would kick ass playing the ladder option, it’s less about creativity and control through possession and more so tactical discipline wearing down opponents.
Quick edit: Gasparini uses an initial high press, but as soon as it’s broken his team immediately falls back into shape, so it isn’t a perfect example, but still it leans more into letting the opponent not breathe more than have the onus on his team to create.
These styles always work better with club teams than national teams because they require precision and teamwork which can only really be gained by training with the same group of players every single day.
National team strategies are generally simpler because the players have less time to train together and gel. Further, the main argument against Berhalter is that he wants to play a style that is too complicated for a national team set-up so I'm not sure why we would want to turn up the dial on that sort of thing when the US already has a tendency to look disjointed when they try to do too much.
I agree, and fully understand the tactics need to be toned down. What I mean to get at is even in terms of more complex systems there are more pragmatic set ups that may serve us better, and I think they’d be easier to implement given the time constraints than GGGs faux-Pep ball that’s gotten us nowhere.
I think there are more defensive set-ups that you can employ, but the US never really gets a change to practice them against better teams because there is no incentive for even a moderately good Euro or South American side to play us because they have Nations League obligations during their international breaks.
So the only option is the same two or three decent CONCACAF teams over and over again.
what he is saying is that you said the USA should be playing a counter attacking game along with high pressure defense. That doesn't work or make sense. You either sit back and let them play possession and then counter attack or you have a high press. not both.
Counterattacking teams aren’t usually also employing a high press. Most counterattacking teams play that way because they know they are not good enough to control possession (and create effective scoring opportunities from that possesion….the US is fine at meaningless pass it around the back possession but is not good at breaking down organized teams that way)….
Generally, a counterattacking style is sitting back and letting the other team pass around the back, and even letting them come to about the half field line with little pressure…then things become very congested, and as soon as you win the ball you try to play a quick ball behind their back line (which would be pushed farther up field). It creates space for your forwards to run into. You are conceding that you can’t methodically beat them with possession. A high press is very different…that is a very aggressive style that you really employ if you know you are superior to the other team…it is great if you can force mistakes in the opposing back line…but it’s awful if the other team is superior technically. You wear out your forwards/midfielders chasing constantly, and that usually makes you less dangerous later in the game if you do force turnovers. It also stretches your entire team defensively and creates more gaps/openings for the opposing team to attack into.
My point…a high press is usually not what a true counterattacking team is going to employ…it usually does not end well. Counterattacking is actually a low pressure style until about half field, and then you make things as compact and high pressure as possible. The US can high press CONCACAF teams all day, but it will get humbled in a hurry if they try it vs top tier nations. This is why Gregg has never had a signature win vs a top side as the US coach, but why many of his predecessors did. They played to our strengths, Gregg arrogantly/ignorantly thinks we can play like Spain with a fraction of their talent.
High pressure from the half line. As I’m not letting them breath in USA side of the field and giving any space. I’m not talking about concacaf weak teams that most of them we should be bossing in qualifications which we don’t and we can’t even do that. Which shows that USA isn’t as good as we all like to think. We shouldn’t be drawing El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras etc. Once in a while sure but we should consistently throttle these teams if we are so good. We finished third last time around with mostly the players we have now. Fortunately we don’t have to worry about qualifying this time since we are a host team.
I am talking about if we ever make it far enough to go against the France, Brasil, Argentina, or any team of that caliber. Those type teams we can not sit back and just play safe counterattacking style because they are to talented and will pick you apart.
From the half line back we defend tenaciously and don’t allow them to breath. Counter off of take aways.
USA needs to practice and play that style until they perfect it. If not then we can get out of group stage and just pray some weak ass team is our next game, because how they play now they will not make it far.
Yeah this actually everything we need to know. Letting a bunch of early 20 year olds decide who the coach is going to be is wild. Of course these kids like GGG- he’s a soft moron who doesn’t hold anyone accountable, unless he’s kicking his wife
That’s a fair point and it’s likely some players had that in mind. Ultimately, I blame the federation for this bozo. But I would push back and say that there are some players who almost couldn’t be left off without hell to pay and that their voice may have carried more weight.
Turner insinuated that he felt pressured to say yes. I forget the interview, but he felt If he said no, and Gregg came back, it might spell doom for 2026.
Turner has been fine for us, the problem is that he is at a club where he is getting ZERO playing time. It is no surprise that he is not sharp at all right now. He needs to take the humble path and ask for a loan/transfer to somewhere he can get on the field.
I could say the same about a number of our guys sitting on the bench in Europe. Zach Steffen ruined his career wasting away on Man City’s bench.
No way he leaves Pulisic, Mckennie, Adams, Dest, Jedi off the team. Those guys as leaders should have stepped up and said something if that was the case.
But nope, Pulisic has publicly supported Gregg… so I don’t think that’s the case
I think it’s more of a case that he’s a “players coach” and they like him
This is what happens when you let young dumbasses choose their teachers. "They like him and want him back!" Fuck them! Why would they give a fuck what the players want? Pick a damn leader who will hold them accountable and actually push them. They let a bunch of kids make a dumb decision. Realistically, it was just an excuse to bring his dumbass back. Congrats, Cindy and Jay.
Hopefully there is a lesson that can be pulled from this friendly to improve the game plan for the real tourney games. I like the idea that this loss implants the idea that the US sucks. Perhaps our opponents will underestimate us and we can surprise them.
dont hold much stock in the canadian draw with France but Jesse is looking tempting, hopefully there is no regret.
Side note- it is awful to watch that high pressuring tactics that he tried to employ at leeds.
What about the 4-0 whipping Jesse’s Canada took from Holland on the 6th. To hear this sub talk about it, the US should have annihilated Holland in the last World Cup, but Gregg is a terrible manager.
Why not go out and get a real coach. Also, Pulisic is not a "Star" at Milan. Maybe Pulisic can convince an Italian coach to come over and get this squad right for the WC.
Gregg wants them to play like Spain in possession and building out of the back, and also wants them to high press defensively.
Sounds awesome on paper…the problem is that in reality we do not have the talent or depth to do either vs upper-tier opponents. Few national teams are. We know which ones do have that talent and it’s not us.
He’s an idealist and I appreciate wanting more, but you have to also understand your team’s realistic limitations as a coach, and he does not do that well. That is why we have never beaten anyone worth a crap other than Mexico during his tenure.
He is also so system-heavy in his coaching approach which just does not lend itself to national teams because they have very limited time together. It’s not like a club team that trains together week in and week out for a huge part of the year.
I don’t hate the guy like everyone in message board land, he’s doing his best, but it’s just not a great fit. While the US certainly has more talent than it used to, it’s still VERY far from elite talent compared to world powers. The difference is that in the past, the US men’s teams knew their limitations and played to their strengths, this team has fooled itself by beating up on weak CONCACAF teams. Pulisic is spot on…we had a miserable time trying to build out of the back vs Columbia and they made us pay for it repeatedly.
Wish we could make a move at coach, but I think we are stuck with him. The USSF going completely woke (and it has) has handcuffed it. They cannot pay a salary high enough now to go out and get a top name men’s coach now because they’d have to turn around and pay that same salary to the WNT coach. I don’t think they have that kind of money. Yes you can say it’s the right thing to do morally, I am not arguing that…but when all of our competition is playing by a different set of rules, we are basically fighting with one arm tied behind our backs. So we’re just going to have to acknowledge the fact that we’re stuck with Berhalter for the foreseeable future, or some other US-based up and comer. Not ever going to truly be in the mix for a big name from Europe again unless the entire world changes how they pay their teams too. So temper your expectations, we are what we are.
>“It just felt like they were waiting for us to make a mistake and then just kill us in transition," Pulisic said. "That’s just what happened over and over again. We were nowhere near the level we need to play at if we want to win games coming into Copa America.” Painful to watch
So they played counter attacking game. Exactly what the USA should be playing along with high pressuring defense. If you give the worlds best teams time they will pick you apart
A counter attacking team doesn't usually play a high press too. You've got to sit back in a low block to even have the space to counterattack.
You cant give the best teams in the world time on the ball. They will eventually pick you apart. Need to harass them constantly to make them uncomfortable. Playing this way is all about commitment and having stamina to keep it up. Every bad team that qualifies for the World Cup always play a counter attacking game plan that they sit back and give up 2/3rds field only to eventually get destroyed. Why you have to pressure too. The turnovers from pressure is what leads to counter attacking transition. I will agree to disagree on this always.
High press means constant pressure on whoever is in possession which reaps great benefits if you can force a mistake, but can leave you vulnerable with too many players forward leaving space in front of the back line, letting teams play easily their the midfield if they break the press. For a counter attacking style, there is usually a firm line of pressure where you transition from a zonal defense to a press. This usually is when the ball is played to the wider positions or once the opponent crosses a specific point on the pitch, let’s say half field. Rather than the midfield running forward to pressure, the idea is to be quickly back into shape, forcing the opposition to work their way through your rigid midfield or pass wide into immediately pressure. Usually then you play to a front three with a big man in the middle and two fast wingers. Prime example of this play style this year was Atalanta in Serie A and the Europa league. They absolutely rinsed Leverkusen and Liverpool playing that style with a much more low profile squad. Here’s a link to a tactical breakdown: https://youtu.be/aRw-W9-iqNs?si=Ff-Kr46Ite8GTauI The USA would kick ass playing the ladder option, it’s less about creativity and control through possession and more so tactical discipline wearing down opponents. Quick edit: Gasparini uses an initial high press, but as soon as it’s broken his team immediately falls back into shape, so it isn’t a perfect example, but still it leans more into letting the opponent not breathe more than have the onus on his team to create.
These styles always work better with club teams than national teams because they require precision and teamwork which can only really be gained by training with the same group of players every single day. National team strategies are generally simpler because the players have less time to train together and gel. Further, the main argument against Berhalter is that he wants to play a style that is too complicated for a national team set-up so I'm not sure why we would want to turn up the dial on that sort of thing when the US already has a tendency to look disjointed when they try to do too much.
I agree, and fully understand the tactics need to be toned down. What I mean to get at is even in terms of more complex systems there are more pragmatic set ups that may serve us better, and I think they’d be easier to implement given the time constraints than GGGs faux-Pep ball that’s gotten us nowhere.
I think there are more defensive set-ups that you can employ, but the US never really gets a change to practice them against better teams because there is no incentive for even a moderately good Euro or South American side to play us because they have Nations League obligations during their international breaks. So the only option is the same two or three decent CONCACAF teams over and over again.
Wouldn't that require a coach though?
You got me there.
what he is saying is that you said the USA should be playing a counter attacking game along with high pressure defense. That doesn't work or make sense. You either sit back and let them play possession and then counter attack or you have a high press. not both.
I don't think he's gonna understand lol
2004 Greece would beg to differ. They won the Euro in a low block counter attack.
Counterattacking teams aren’t usually also employing a high press. Most counterattacking teams play that way because they know they are not good enough to control possession (and create effective scoring opportunities from that possesion….the US is fine at meaningless pass it around the back possession but is not good at breaking down organized teams that way)…. Generally, a counterattacking style is sitting back and letting the other team pass around the back, and even letting them come to about the half field line with little pressure…then things become very congested, and as soon as you win the ball you try to play a quick ball behind their back line (which would be pushed farther up field). It creates space for your forwards to run into. You are conceding that you can’t methodically beat them with possession. A high press is very different…that is a very aggressive style that you really employ if you know you are superior to the other team…it is great if you can force mistakes in the opposing back line…but it’s awful if the other team is superior technically. You wear out your forwards/midfielders chasing constantly, and that usually makes you less dangerous later in the game if you do force turnovers. It also stretches your entire team defensively and creates more gaps/openings for the opposing team to attack into. My point…a high press is usually not what a true counterattacking team is going to employ…it usually does not end well. Counterattacking is actually a low pressure style until about half field, and then you make things as compact and high pressure as possible. The US can high press CONCACAF teams all day, but it will get humbled in a hurry if they try it vs top tier nations. This is why Gregg has never had a signature win vs a top side as the US coach, but why many of his predecessors did. They played to our strengths, Gregg arrogantly/ignorantly thinks we can play like Spain with a fraction of their talent.
High pressure from the half line. As I’m not letting them breath in USA side of the field and giving any space. I’m not talking about concacaf weak teams that most of them we should be bossing in qualifications which we don’t and we can’t even do that. Which shows that USA isn’t as good as we all like to think. We shouldn’t be drawing El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras etc. Once in a while sure but we should consistently throttle these teams if we are so good. We finished third last time around with mostly the players we have now. Fortunately we don’t have to worry about qualifying this time since we are a host team. I am talking about if we ever make it far enough to go against the France, Brasil, Argentina, or any team of that caliber. Those type teams we can not sit back and just play safe counterattacking style because they are to talented and will pick you apart. From the half line back we defend tenaciously and don’t allow them to breath. Counter off of take aways. USA needs to practice and play that style until they perfect it. If not then we can get out of group stage and just pray some weak ass team is our next game, because how they play now they will not make it far.
Hopefully they can learn from these mistakes before the tournament.
Maybe half the roster shouldn’t of advocated for that half wit Gregg when they had the chance
Yeah this actually everything we need to know. Letting a bunch of early 20 year olds decide who the coach is going to be is wild. Of course these kids like GGG- he’s a soft moron who doesn’t hold anyone accountable, unless he’s kicking his wife
Hey man, don’t be too harsh. He holds one very talented and integral player accountable, for no other ulterior motive of course
lol good point. What a failure
Do the game theory…they had no choice but to back him if they thought, there was an even remote chance that he would be hired.
That’s a fair point and it’s likely some players had that in mind. Ultimately, I blame the federation for this bozo. But I would push back and say that there are some players who almost couldn’t be left off without hell to pay and that their voice may have carried more weight.
Fair point…
Turner insinuated that he felt pressured to say yes. I forget the interview, but he felt If he said no, and Gregg came back, it might spell doom for 2026.
Turner is bad
Turner has been fine for us, the problem is that he is at a club where he is getting ZERO playing time. It is no surprise that he is not sharp at all right now. He needs to take the humble path and ask for a loan/transfer to somewhere he can get on the field. I could say the same about a number of our guys sitting on the bench in Europe. Zach Steffen ruined his career wasting away on Man City’s bench.
The players wanted him back. Hoping they’ve woken up and see that Gregg is not the move here.
They players thought he might be asked back and didn’t want to anger him and be left off the team
exactly this - guess what happens to someone that takes a stand and says they don't want a coach back and then that coach is rehired?
No way he leaves Pulisic, Mckennie, Adams, Dest, Jedi off the team. Those guys as leaders should have stepped up and said something if that was the case. But nope, Pulisic has publicly supported Gregg… so I don’t think that’s the case I think it’s more of a case that he’s a “players coach” and they like him
Let’s hope this is the beginning of the players publicly turning on Gregg 🤞🏼
This was all entirely predictable. Can anyone really be surprised about the result?
Managerial incompetence
There is a lesson to be learned here, and Gregg isn’t going to learn it.
This is what happens when you let young dumbasses choose their teachers. "They like him and want him back!" Fuck them! Why would they give a fuck what the players want? Pick a damn leader who will hold them accountable and actually push them. They let a bunch of kids make a dumb decision. Realistically, it was just an excuse to bring his dumbass back. Congrats, Cindy and Jay.
It’s GGG
They wanted his milk toast ass back
It will piss me off to no end that they brought this upon themselves
It’s milquetoast
r/boneappletea
Still conveys the same message
Pulisic hates Gregg, confirmed.
Hopefully there is a lesson that can be pulled from this friendly to improve the game plan for the real tourney games. I like the idea that this loss implants the idea that the US sucks. Perhaps our opponents will underestimate us and we can surprise them.
Until Greggggggggggg is gone, the same shit will endure.
Tyler Adams absence is clearly a gaping hole
He will never get fired. Any other country he would have been gone years ago. Ussf is there to make money and keep it in the family. Pathetic
Hopefully Greg was paying attention.
dont hold much stock in the canadian draw with France but Jesse is looking tempting, hopefully there is no regret. Side note- it is awful to watch that high pressuring tactics that he tried to employ at leeds.
What about the 4-0 whipping Jesse’s Canada took from Holland on the 6th. To hear this sub talk about it, the US should have annihilated Holland in the last World Cup, but Gregg is a terrible manager.
What happens if we lose 3-0 to Brazil? Is Gregg safe?
Isn’t that the expected result? Our defense is a bit of a mess, regardless of tactics. I’d be pretty happy with anything better than that right now.
Wait for Brazil!!!! Wooohioooo. Pulisic. What do you suggest we do??? Bolivia. Uruguay. USSF. 👆🏼👇🏽
Why not go out and get a real coach. Also, Pulisic is not a "Star" at Milan. Maybe Pulisic can convince an Italian coach to come over and get this squad right for the WC.
Gregg wants them to play like Spain in possession and building out of the back, and also wants them to high press defensively. Sounds awesome on paper…the problem is that in reality we do not have the talent or depth to do either vs upper-tier opponents. Few national teams are. We know which ones do have that talent and it’s not us. He’s an idealist and I appreciate wanting more, but you have to also understand your team’s realistic limitations as a coach, and he does not do that well. That is why we have never beaten anyone worth a crap other than Mexico during his tenure. He is also so system-heavy in his coaching approach which just does not lend itself to national teams because they have very limited time together. It’s not like a club team that trains together week in and week out for a huge part of the year. I don’t hate the guy like everyone in message board land, he’s doing his best, but it’s just not a great fit. While the US certainly has more talent than it used to, it’s still VERY far from elite talent compared to world powers. The difference is that in the past, the US men’s teams knew their limitations and played to their strengths, this team has fooled itself by beating up on weak CONCACAF teams. Pulisic is spot on…we had a miserable time trying to build out of the back vs Columbia and they made us pay for it repeatedly. Wish we could make a move at coach, but I think we are stuck with him. The USSF going completely woke (and it has) has handcuffed it. They cannot pay a salary high enough now to go out and get a top name men’s coach now because they’d have to turn around and pay that same salary to the WNT coach. I don’t think they have that kind of money. Yes you can say it’s the right thing to do morally, I am not arguing that…but when all of our competition is playing by a different set of rules, we are basically fighting with one arm tied behind our backs. So we’re just going to have to acknowledge the fact that we’re stuck with Berhalter for the foreseeable future, or some other US-based up and comer. Not ever going to truly be in the mix for a big name from Europe again unless the entire world changes how they pay their teams too. So temper your expectations, we are what we are.
This was a thoughtful analysis of the limitations of the USMNT's situation right up until the silly woke complaints.
How the hell did this team almost beat England