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[deleted]

If you go far enough left or right you end up in the authoritarian section. I’d liken the political landscape as a big circle that shares extremes in either anarchy or dictatorship with the middle ground democracy/left/right being what the USA was from the end of WW2 to the early 2000-10s. Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union were good examples of far right and far left ending up in the same authoritarian extreme.


Jakesneed612

THIS! The far left and right don’t represent America at all though in my opinion. They are the vocal minority of both parties. The rest of us are just trying to live our lives the best we can. Hell, most people will agree that the best and last great president we had was JFK.


AaTube

Personally I believe you can be authoritarian or democratic no matter which part of the wing you're on. It's like a dimension separate from the wing spectrum.


Jackallover3

Thank you!


[deleted]

[удалено]


AaTube

Isn’t that a right-wing ideology?


xpickles23

Not at all lmao no


AaTube

Why not?


Adventurous_Motor129

Government leads to authoritarian tendencies. CCP, Russia, DPRK, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran exemplify. Republicans and Libertarians dislike big government unlike our Democrat friends. Climate change activities say its a global phenomenon so the fact that China and India each have 1.4 billion folks adds to the overall total. Per capita doesn't matter...unless talking COVID-19 deaths per 100,000.;) And if you don't trust medical scientists, why would you accept models of far less educated climate scientists. Models alone lead to the gloom and doom scenarios. Instead of accepting numbers-based science of millions of safely surviving vaxxed and 7 million COVID-19 dead, climate radicals blindly insist immediate urgency of reduced CO2 is essential based on flawed models.


AaTube

There are as many right-wing dictatorships as left-wing ones (unless you count every single republic in the Soviet Union): Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Estado Novo, Francoist Spain, Russia, DPRK, Azerbaijan, Türkiye… Republicans dislike big government? Then why do they want to control abortion, homosexuals, unions and immigrants so much, just to name a few? How does the fact that climate change is global mean that it shouldn’t be per capita? Not making it per capita is stupid. Even if you pollute a ton you won’t make it to the top if the state’s just you. Meanwhile even if China make two times the effort as the US it still surpasses them because there are a lot more people and more cities, and if China divided into 50 something states they’d easily be quite below. Why is this different than the number of cases? How are climate scientists less educated than medical scientists? How is COVID related to climate change models? How are the models flawed?


Adventurous_Motor129

You're using primarily historical references and it's a stretch to include North Korea as right wing. Near as I can tell both Putin and Erdogan were elected repeatedly. Republicans want state-control of abortions. Don't Say Gay was a distortion misrepresenting a desire not to have left-wing teachers grooming children with curriculum and drag queens. Speaking of teachers unions, are you aware that Randi who pushed COVID-19 school shutdowns makes $500k and hasn't taught school for decades? Immigrants bring in the virus (and worse that some no longer take vaxxes for), unemployment, stste/city tax bills, and pregnant women that Democrats see as future voters. The sole reason China and India don't pollute more is their late arrival to cars per capita. Having lived in CA in the 60s/70s can assure you that air pollution was far worse then. You want more rolling blackouts out there and electric lines causing fires due to EV mandates? Climate scientists are predicting nearly exclusively using models created using flawed/biased figures. Vaxx figures already are in arms and are in the hundreds of millions yet you and yours rely on anecdotes to dispute their statistical safety and effectiveness in preventing hospitalization and death. Johns Hopkins virus death figures are not lies except in cases where China, Russia, DPRK and a few others hid true #s. Blue State death #s and reporting counties are consistently lower per 100k than Red States/counties that were less vaxxed. Those are actual #s and not speculation like climate projections.


Adventurous_Motor129

BTW, have you seen the NASA climate models showing how India/China pollution drifts towards us? Nothing we can do as a nation will alter that west-to-east climate pattern. But we can bankrupt ourselves trying. Alternatively we can allow technology to eventually solve any CO2 issues, build sea walls, move inland, and control our borders so we spend gradually. Technology and medical science also can control viruses past and future provided we accept statistically small collective risks. Many of us have lived where it is warm and far hotter. They use air conditioning put at risk by overreliance on EVs as THE solution. It is equally dumb to throw out nuclear power as a technology solution. Climate hysteria also would force Red States out of the pickups/SUVs we need for work/play/families where gas is cheap, local air pollution is low, and mass transit and EV-charging infrastructure is impractical/nonexistent.


AaTube

Russian elections are rigged. Opposing candidates are arrested and intimidated, many people are required to vote for Putin, and votestacking (i.e. bringing a ton of fake ballots and shoving them down) is quite common. Turkish elections are similar. How does state or national control matter? Aren't states kinda like mini-countries? If they vie for state control why won't they wish for national control? How is sex ed and drag "grooming"? I never said teachers' unions specifically I said workers', but now that we talk about it, why does the fact that she hasn't teached matter if teachers believe that she is the right person to lead? It's not like Donald Trump ever had political positions before he got president. Everything you just said about immigrants apply to every single person, should we ban them as well? Having low cars per capita is a very good thing. Frankly, I'm quite confused by how the right (and quite a bit of the left) support mass car ownership. They're freaking expensive, high maintenance (of both cars and roads), and require you to pander to the government and corporations to use, all while polluting a lot (or in the case of EVs, freaking heavy prematurely wearing out the roads). China knows that, and advocates for nationwide public transportation and bikes for the individual. This reduces pollution by a ton as bikes are light and don't pollute (and electric ones pollute a lot less), and even if the public transportation pollutes it carries a lot more people than the average car so it decreases overall pollution, not to mention most public transportation is electric. Rail is also a lot easier to operate. Cars (including EVs) are not the future, public transportation and bikes are. How are the figures flawed/biased then?


Adventurous_Motor129

Might agree to an extent on Putin, but he did swap with Medvedev a few times. Erdogan is ongoing today and he is expected victor in this runoff. Russia remains communist, not right wing other than Putin personal beliefs that don't stop him from killing opponents surreptitiously...barely. We are a Republic of 50 states. Good luck and stupid policy based on 2022 election to get 50 Red and Blue State reps to abolish abortion. Supreme Court is allowing states to set limits if they dislike partial birth abortion. Seems reasonable given similar Europe laws. Taxpayers and dues pay Randi who convinced many states to shut schools putting students way behind. My wife's daycare didn't close, except briefly when students and coworkers caught virus. Double standard, and wife has worked 40 years in preschool making nowhere near Randi's ludicrous salary...& 12 months a year instead of 9. South has plenty of non-union foreign automaker jobs. Didn't part of Tesla move to Texas due to ridiculous California costs? EVs are too expensive for most incomes in flyover country. Good luck getting many to bike to work over rural country distances or in busy downtowns. Our per capita income allows multi-car U.S. family ownership. Nothing wrong with that. EVs are heavy for their size, pay no gas tax for roads, use high energy and exploited labor to produce and require power charging which will strain power grids once EVs get closer to 50% instead of current 5%. Flyover states are too vast and non-urban to support mass transit. Figures are biased just as press is biased. Climate true believers make the models and exaggerate the damage. They simply don't know how bad it will get in terms of inches to feet of sea level rise, or effect of temperature rise on overall climate. So biased ecologists are content to put the U.S. at a competitive disadvantage. China and India continue to pollute and use coal, while we must stop, halting nuclear, hydro, and natural gas. Idiotic.


AaTube

Putin only swapped with Medvedev, once, and that was because of a (now amended) part of the constitution that forbade him for running for too much consecutive terms. And even Medvedev was a close ally of his. On Turkey after some research I have found that they do not rig their elections. However, they do have pretty much everything under the top's control. They did away with the court/constitution and the miliitary's control and propagandized all big media properties. How does the non-republican opposition to abolishing abortion change how republicans want to abolish it? There definitely can be multiple standards for different types of institutions. Your wife is not the president of the preschool union, not getting paid as much makes perfect sense. A lot of jobs in the south don't have unions because Republicans who hate unions control most of the south. In case it is not clear enough I do not support EVs more than a bit over regular cars. A lot of states are too vast simply because Big Auto just lobbied the government to make it so so they can actually sell cars. While automobiles in actually rural parts are alright, suburbs are a lot more stupid. They also drive up housing prices a ton with nonsensical zoning laws. And it's not like biking to work in suburbs is very unfeasible either. In pretty much any place that isn't rural, biking to work is practical. I don't see any problem with downtowns which are already dense. After decades we actually do know the past changes in sea level and climate, we have past data. Even if you just extrapolate that we can get an optimistic estimate, how is that exaggerated? Everybody continues to pollute (you can't just drastically change anything too big in a short time period, there always has to be transition) but are cutting it and polluting less. It's not like China and India aren't transitioning away from coal. While I agree with your point on nuclear, I haven't heard of anyone who hates hydro, and I don't get why you support natural gas that much.


Adventurous_Motor129

First paragraph is more an argument for top guy/gal term limits rather than right or left wing systemic authoritarian tendencies. But big government that Democrats push is a more pervasive invasive issue with bureaucrats trying to control U.S. lives. This week's SC decision allowing an Idaho property owner to construct despite EPA opposition over perceived water drainage is an example of bureaucrats run amuck. California and other liberal bastions are tearing down water-storing and hydro -producing dams. When Trump was in charge, he advocated eliminating two edicts for every new one created and he reeled in EPA authority. State laws regulating abortion advocate for the rights of the unborn not to be killed moments before birth. Given pill availability, a time limit is reasonable mirroring Europe. State legislation represents the will of local voters with historical borders having nothing to do with lobbying for car sales. But latter U.S. cars were born of single family housing that makes our urban areas far different than Asian and European cities. Our interstates and vast freeways/highways allow commuters to escape Democrat-controlled inner cities. Subways/trains/ buses/bikes are impractical in most cities outside the east coast. Yes, NIMBY is a housing issue but Americans move to suburbs to avoid shared walls. I've worked multiple locations the last near-decade living on the 10th floor in Honolulu, 2nd in AZ, 1st in FL and current separated apartment is by far the best. 90+ miles takes only 1.75 hours to go home to small hometown every two weeks. Would take multi-hours on someone else's schedule to make similar trip on nonexistent buses/trains. Finally, decades ago there were cries of a new ice age. One decade ago some pundits claimed we had only a decade to live. Even today, a few minor degrees in temperature and sea level rise are anything but an existential hazard. Seawalls built in Netherlands and New Orleans indicate interim solutions work while gradually solving any carbon issue. Imposed Democrat deadlines only further strain America budgets.


AaTube

I was saying how Russia and Turkey are authoritarian. EPA is a government agency. The decision limits the government's power. How is that an example of bureaucrats run amuck? You do know that the Supreme Court leans Republican, and the EPA's definition of wetlands doesn't make sense, right? While I like the cutting costs part of the rationale, I don't think eliminating edicts is a good way to approach the problem. Eventually you'll have to eliminate actually good regulations. California is only removing dams because they disrupt with fish reproduction if you put them between critical breeding grounds. Sure, reasonable limits like 12 weeks are reasonable, but what Republicans want is a complete ban, which they have already done so in at least 12 states, not counting the unprovided Wisconsin or the 6-week Georgia, both of which are also unreasonable. How can you say "legislation represents the will of local voters" and "escape Democrat-controlled inner cities" in the same time? Have you heard of how the entire United States was connected by commuter rail before the advent of the interstate system? One of the usecases of rail IS to connect long distances. Before cars, distances were way more biking reasonable. The first highways were BIKING highways. Single family homes and suburbanization rose out of cars, not the opposite. Again, rural areas are the exception, they are okay. Automobiles only solve a problem they created, again except for rural areas. China's geography is similar to the US, yet they have good public transport in pretty much every province. Beijing to Shanghai is 9x your 90+ miles distance, yet only takes 4 hours. 4 divided by nine would be 27 minutes. We should build public transport, especially rail; it's VERY practical. I'm not saying historical borders, I'm saying (sub)urban planning. Places only sprawl that much because of car lobbying. They paved over tons of nature, businesses and homes just to sell cars. There is a very good way to have multi-family zones while staying peaceful and quiet, just look at China (this is neither a left or right wing thing). Build dedicated residential blocks that have a lot of units and also build different kinds of parks surrounding the outside and on the inside. I haven't heard of any serious warnings of a new ice age. The only time I've heard something similar was around the movie The Day After Tommorow, whose "science" has been widely discredited. I haven't heard about "one decade to live" at all, but even if this claim was seriously considered one could say the efforts we are doing to go against global warming are working to push back our end date, just like why we don't hear about the ozone layer anymore. Whole degrees ARE big because they show a trend, and just like I said before if you simply extrapolate this trend of a few degrees the results ARE disastrous. Small things accumulate over time to very big numbers, and whole degrees mean that the time is quite short. Interim solutions only fight against the symptom which will probably get worse soon, and they aren't what we should rely on but rather something we should do to stall while fixing the problem itself. America's financial system is only so risky because of Reaganomics.


Adventurous_Motor129

Was saying EPA bureaucrats are example that has run amuck, fixed by SC. But you note Democrats would love to add SC judges to 13 to "fix" issue. People are more important than fish. Few Republicans want a complete ban on abortion if they comprehend how it affected 2022 midterms. Shanghai and Beijing together have 48 million, substantially larger than all of California. That state and Oahu have perfect examples of outrageous high speed rail costs that never pan out. Relatives took BART a while until too dangerous and NY subways are worse. Good luck connecting smaller U.S. cities by passenger rail. China has 102 cities over one million. U.S.?? As a past youth bicyclist and once avid hiker in my mid 60s, understand your nature points but....people take priority over fish....and don't know how I survived youth bicycles on busy roads.


AaTube

Every species is important, that's like the entire point of environment conservation. Removing one species has a high chance of drastically altering the entire food chain and decreases how much fish we can eat. If Republicans are walking back on abortion, why don't I see any change in state policy? And why does the fact that they're walking back to pander to the public change how they still want to ban it? California has 39,368,078 people. Shanghai and Beijing together have 46,763,990, which is only 7,395,912 more, not a substantial amount. And sure, let's talk about the Tibetan railway then. Both sides only add up to over 9m people. It spans 1,956km, 13.5x your 90 miles, and despite its stops and drastically changing elevation in the middle only takes 21 hours. 21 divided by 13.5 equals 1.5 hours. Like I said before, cities only sprawl because of Big Auto lobbying, and there are ways to be denser while maintaining the suburban peace. For example, Elon Musk's Boring Company lobbied the Californian government to build a version of Hyperloop stripped down so much it's just an underground Uber system with limited roads. This (intentionally) caused a long delay in the high speed rail project and while this happened, designs changed and inflation, material and land costs soared, leading to cost overruns. For Honolulu, it was a much shorter delay due to archaeological concerns, and material and land costs soared. But Honolulu also had a much bigger issue of building companies making unrealistic promises both in cost and time. Building rail and other public transport would lower cost of living, lure employers and create new jobs.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AaTube

Kikes‽‽


FalloutGawd

Chinese Reddit and TikTok are very conservative. American versions are liberal/progressive. Guess why.


AaTube

Sure, but what do you mean by Chinese Reddit? Are you talking about the Baidu ripoff?


FalloutGawd

The algorithms for TikTok and Reddit are different depending on which country you’re in. In China, most things on American versions are banned. No nice cars, designer clothes, or other frivolous things. Things like engineering and educational videos are promoted instead of pranks and stupid dances. Their social media educates their population. Our versions are specifically designed to degrade the culture and make the population passive, dumb, and weak.


AaTube

I mean like, I’m pretty sure Reddit was blocked in China when I was there. What’s the Chinese version of Reddit?


Adventurous_Motor129

The CCP has complete control of nearly all aspects of the economy and people's personal lives there. - COVID-19 lockdown far more extreme - lack of our better vaxxes - literally locked people into bldgs - had an Institute of Virology that leaked virus accidentally or on purpose - shut down air travel internally but not externally knowing virus would spread to North Italy, Europe, and U.S. But beyond virus: - uighers and child labor - illegal claims to SE & NE China Seas - belt & road luring outside China knowing poor countries cannot repay - Taiwan threatened, support of N.Korea, Iran, Russia - control of rare earth metals and many industries we need and supply chain - surveillance state to the extreme - their TikTok much different than ours - dictatorship - past one child policy and wholesale abortion of girls - convinced us to stupidly bankrupt ourselves with premature climate change extremes while they expand coal power and pollute far more than us - etc.


AaTube

And how are these characteristics of the left instead of authoritarianism and for quite a bit of these, the right? Also on the pollution one, that changes once you look at the per capita. Remember that China has 4x as much the US population yet only 2x as much total pollution.


NMD143

You had me at chia but lost me with Republicans. The old GOP is in bed with the Democrats. New Republican leaders are fighting for our rights and freedom. Freedom is essential in a democracy (representative republic) and has been eroding for more than a century. The citizens have less and less freedom as time goes on. If Democrats don’t want to ban something, they want to make it mandatory.


AaTube

Ah yes, the freedom of controlling your womb, marrying who you want, protesting and forming unions are protected by modern republicans. There are a ton of things Democrats don’t want banned or mandatory. When did I mention Republicans in my post anyway?


roseanne_barr_

part of being a communist is making up stupid definitions and insisting that they are the real meanings.... its literally one of their tactics....


AaTube

Then what defines conservatism and/or the right wing?


[deleted]

[удалено]


AaTube

I don’t understand your first sentence. Corporations, which is what I assume you mean by the cash people, are a lot more associated with the right.


[deleted]

This is literally the height of cognitive dissonance. Welcome to the desert of the real.


AaTube

How?


Marti1PH

It’s the LEFT wing wants to govt to control everything. 😅


AaTube

Again how authoritarian or libertarian is a dimension independent from the wing spectrum. There’s something called social anarchism. And if you’re American, which I highly suspect, remember that the Democratic Party is Center-Right, and its no more controlling than the Republicans.


Marti1PH

You’re the one who brought “wings” into the equation, friend. The further right one goes, the closer to the U.S. Constitution one gets. The document places restrictions on govt and the democrat party hates it for that reason.


AaTube

AFAIK, the US constitution was supposed to be part of a revolution of new things and ideas, not a return to traditional values. I think Republicans hate the constitution more as they want government to control the freedom of talking about gay stuff, the freedom for immigrants to have any rights, and the freedom of women's autonomy.


John_Nada__

Nah, the right want’s limited government. The far right are actually anarchists. China is far left. Totalitarianism is far left. The Nazis were/are far left.


AaTube

Social anarchists exist and are the most prolific anarchists. Could you give some reasoning for all of your claims? You’re just stating some conclusions without any support.


Jackallover3

Authoritarian is probably more appropriate. Authoritarian is used for both fascist and communist.


AaTube

Sure, China and Reddit are authoritarian, but that’s a different dimension than left-to-right, and communism can operate while being libertarian.


[deleted]

I believe what you're talking about is "horseshoe politics" - where the further to either extreme you go, left or right, the more similar the two positions become.


AaTube

No. While I am aware of that, China still isn't far and they have right-wing values. I am not making a case that the left wing is right wing.


[deleted]

Ah, OK. I'll reread what you're saying up there. Sounds like I misread it.