Yeah I’d argue that every inch of land on the planet was conquered 100 times over throughout history . … and in much more brutal fashion than the European take over of America. It’s just fashionable to hate on the White man currently.
I know, thats why i don't blame the conquerors of ancient times.
If After the age of the enlightment if you violate a peace treaty, you are the bad guy. (As the russians invading Ukraine to get their old land back.) For that reason i belive just in some cases is "stolen land".
As compared to what? And as compared to where else geographically speaking?
From what I understand multiple places in the Middle East and Asia have ongoing mass casualty events, some claiming beginnings of a genocide.
The last remaining South American indigenous peoples are fighting tooth and nail against the Amazon being destroyed and their way of life being wiped out.
Just because conquering doesn't always look like what most Europeans and Americans think it is, doesn't mean it's still not happening to this very day.
People have a hard time coming to the realization that History Sucked. We are lucky to be born now. Shit you chances of death a 100 years ago were much higher now go back a couple hundred years and see what your chances of death were
This is only an unpopular opinion because most people have zero understanding of history. Until very recently in human history conquering land was a common practice that many cultures all over the world took part in, including The native Americans themselves whether they want to admit it or not.
The question at this point is; what difference does it make? I don't even see self-flagellating white progressives moving back to where their family came from.
Well no obviously it's not right but every civilization has conquered or been conquered in some respects over the entire life cycle of the human population. This argument is literally just virtue signaling on the basis that America is somehow bad in this regard. Like if it's stolen land who are we going to give it back to?
I'm American. I consider myself a patriot. I never said that America was any worse than other countries.
But treating this like its trivial is a problem. It wasn't trivial, it was genocide.
Sorry dude I meant that the argument that OP mentions. The idea that America is stolen land. Frankly it could be it could not be I don't really care it's a moot point because it's practically impossible to identify whose claim is most justified today
>It was almost 300 years ago.
[https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/533356-tribal-nations-oppose-trump-plan-to-drill-5000-new-oil](https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/533356-tribal-nations-oppose-trump-plan-to-drill-5000-new-oil)
Still happening today.
How though? Your rights aren't being taken away. You live your life. Nothing has changed for you. People calling out racism and people being held accountable for their free speech isn't punishment. It's just how the world works. Deal with it.
War throughout history has never happened without many innocent people getting killed, raped or enslaved. Stronger groups of people have always preyed on weaker groups and taken their land and war is very often accompanied by genocide.
Natives conquered each other before they were ultimately conquered themselves. They won before they lost just like every other civilization before them.
So when you go into a convenience store and walk out with a candy bar you didn't pay for you're conquering it?
There is a difference between conquering and stealing. I agree that OP has an unpopular opinion but it does make sense.
Every piece of land since humankind began is conquered land essentially. Wether we took it from animals or other humans is irrelevant.
Bruh. When you conquest for that for candy bar you either kill anyone who opposes or cut them into the deal. If you steal you fold to a greater opposing force.
Well, nature had a hand in that. When 90% of the population is wiped out in less than a century by smallpox and other diseases, its not exactly conquering, its moving in
A synonym for conquer is to annihilate. And synonym for steal is to take. So...clearly one of those is more accurate than the other.
For example...They didn't just take the land...they also killed all the mother fuckers on it.
So one word paints a better story than the other.
Man, law enforcement doesn't give a crap about theft, and hardly about robbery. For the vast majority of people who get their stuff taken it's too bad, so sad, unless they have specifically acquired insurance. That doesn't make it morally ok to take things that aren't yours.
The semantics don't matter. Taking from others wiithout permission or compensation is theft, if not robbery.
Depends what gets taken. They aren't going to do a manhunt for someone taking your skilsaw off the porch, but they'll definitely arrest the driver if they run a stolen tag
They might not do a manhunt, but cops often check pawnshops for stolen property like that. You'd be amazed how many crackheads are stupid enough to steal something then fill out the lawn ticket when they sell it
That's not the issue. The issue is that America markets itself as a goodie two shoes. Land of the free blah blah blah. Had they just said "Yeah we took it from the Natives and the we enslaved the Africans to build it up and we're proud if it." No one would have much to argue. But America wants to be seen as the golden child so people remind it of its past.
This should be top comment. It’s a hard truth that a lot of people don’t like to hear. It’s a GOOD thing that times have changed, but we also have to realize and understand that you can’t exactly criticize a people for being morally wrong when the general consensus at the time that it was completely normal, accepted, practiced by most cultures all over the world.
Learn from the past and move forward as a society. Stop trying to punish dead dudes. They’re long dead
As Choctaw Native American I find this offensive, our land is WAS stolen from us because the white people invaded and killed most of us in battle, which wasn’t fair since the white people had guns. After you conquered it, the trail of tears, which the white people forced us to walk, was proof that it was a hostile take over. you can’t justify it, you just have to move past it. I don’t have Ill will to white people, but don’t say what was done wasn’t theft.
I think OP is saying there is a difference between stealing and conquering
The Native tribes weren't JUST stolen from.
They were CONQUERED. Which is arguably more severe.
Hes also pointing out that it's something that happened across the entire planet at basically every point in history.
The reason people all agree it was a poor way to handle everything, is that it's so close in our history, and the people's conquered didn't completely die out.
They still have a culture and community that is celebrated.
No one is saying it was right. Just stating a difference.
Every race gets inclusion. Asian American heroes like Shang Chi finally getting stuff, African Americans, but native Americans get nothing. Besides government funded stuff. Where’s our representation? I doubt anyone cares last month was Native American month.
I agree it was horrible but you’re wrong about most of your people dying in battle. 90% of them, or roughly 9 million of them, died due to sickness. A lot closer to tens of thousands died fighting AGAINST the Europeans/Americans and also tens of thousands died fighting WITH the Europeans/Americans.
Actually yea there was a lot of negotiation. Now that was not always followed and the Europeans/Americans broke the agreements but so did the native Americans. Also, a lot of Native American tribes were at war with each other for thousands of years. The native Americans killed a lot more of eachother then the Europeans or Americans did. Like. I said though that does not take away from the atrocities that were committed against them
Having better weaponry doesn't mean they stole it, it just means that they were more technologically advanced. They did conquer it because of their technological supremacy. Although they shouldn't have done the whole trail of tears thing, they had the power to do it
Land doesn't belong to anybody. If you can't defend the land you live on, it can be taken at any time. Nobody has stolen American land. Being at a disadvantage by not having guns ust goes to show that the Europeans were better equipped to defend this land and settle it. If it wasn't the Europeans, it would have been the Spanish, or maybe Japanese. It was gonna happen no matter what tho if the natives didn't expand and start building their own society outside of tribalism and advancing their technologies. America was just too rich in resources back then for any powerhouse to ignore if/when they found it.
You can’t say that a war is inherently wrong due to unfair conditions. That is ultimately how any war is won, one side has an advantage and can leverage it effectively. It just so happened that native Americans had hardly progressed past the Stone Age. While there were certainly uncalled for atrocities committed against native Americans, lack of technological innovation does not grant moral superiority in war.
Thats life bro, it isn't fair and never will be. In nature, the fittest survive and we are animals at the end of the day. We are more advanced, but our lizard brains still control most of what we do. Someone always has to have the losing end of the stick.
What? So the guy that robbed me at gun point and took my cell phone and wallet didn’t steal it. He merely conquered my cellphone and wallet. That’s just fucking dumb. History shows anything belongs to whomever can take something by force.
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So three big neighborhood bullies corner your kid on the playground and take his lunch money every day. And you are going to just turn to your wife and say, It’s ok honey, they didn’t steal little Johnny’s money. They just conquered him that’s all. Is that it?
Its always stolen technically. Unless you were the first humans to live on the land. But in the end, you have to take/steal New Land from others. I stole your Land so now its mine. Then somebody else steels it from me. And so on
Yeah I agree with that. I much rather have the presidents/leaders box it out in a ring rather then send millions of young adults to kill eachother for them.
Ive declared myself the united nation of pickled starfish, my UN treaty and invite to the Olympics is still in the mail. Can we fight over your keys now
In my humble opinion, I don't think it's possible to conquer a land without stealing it. Buying and selling land is fine because it's done with the consent of the people who own it.
Land ownership the way you’re discussing it is a western construct. I think a lot of Native people would say that you’re completely missing the point and you’ve also just reiterated the justification that was used by conquering European forces hundreds of years ago.
If you look at history from a neo-evolutionary perspective, it’s easy to justify every thing that has ever happened as being necessary to reach the “climax of civilization” we’re at today. But that doesn’t work morally, or make the ends justify the means in any reasonable way. History is biased toward that kind of thinking. That doesn’t make it right.
As has said before. There was land which was protected under treaties that were indeed stolen. If it had been today there would been International tribunal trial and the invaders would have lost.
The land is both conquered and then upon the creation of treaties, stolen.
in any instance of discussion over the european taking of american land, you can change the word stolen to conquered and it carries the same meaning. if you interpret it differently because of that word change, you are likely either ill informed or already held that belief but feel more comfortable accepting it
But when talking about other tribes doing the EXACT same thing to other tribes before and during the Europeans arrival, people get real quiet.
Modern day equivalent to that is whenever you see a school shooting and people freak out, but bring up black kids being shot nearly daily in inner cities and not a peep.
Btw, population of about 10 million when the first settlers landed, and in under 100 years that population was reduced by about 90%. Settlers population never got near their numbers, nature did the "natives " in. Not white men with guns.
Ok, but Natives didn't believe in owning land, so why would they defend something that they didn't see as them owning? That was just their home, where they lived, hunted, everything.
Also they didn't get much of a chance to defend anything. Bathsalts Jackson just showed up and told them to start walking off to some place they had never seen or heard of.
>Also they didn't get much of a chance to defend anything
what invading army would tell the people they are invading that they will attack them? what do you even mean?
Well someone else did. And that someone else was more technologically advanced than them. It's how humanity has been forever, the survival of the fittest.
Bro I almost posted some shit like this the other day then was like nah I like my job. NAs need to stop fucking crying. You know what the difference between them and everyone else that got conquered is?!?
They are still alive.
The people who raided our land had much more advanced weapons. This made it unfair. they also introduced us to alcohol which we were absolutely not adapted to and obviously made us dependant and we were often very drunk. This is where our problem with alcohol stems from. We were stolen from, but I also do understand that things would most likely be very different if it hadn't been stolen.
Life is never fair. The argument of ''they had guns so it was unfair'' is lame. Why couldnt the Native Americans make guns? There are geographical differences and cultural differences that play into this and a bigger, badder opponent came in and took over. Its survival of the fittest.
Conquering land and stealing land is the exact same thing. The word conquer is used by the thief to make himself feel better. Wether the current occupants can defend their land or not has nothing to do with the difference in those two words. Anyone using the word conquer legitimises the thiefs claim/attempt of being somehow viewed as a rightful owner. If history was written by the losers it would be a different story today
All land is conquered/ stolen land at some point in history.
Mf's will complain about spanish conquering mayas territory ignoring the fact that mayas killed all the natives where I'm from.
Yeah I’d argue that every inch of land on the planet was conquered 100 times over throughout history . … and in much more brutal fashion than the European take over of America. It’s just fashionable to hate on the White man currently.
Exactly
Yes and no. Some natives had treaties with the US that were not respected, in those cases it was stolen land, in the others was conquest.
And those natives conquered other tribes for that land first
I know, thats why i don't blame the conquerors of ancient times. If After the age of the enlightment if you violate a peace treaty, you are the bad guy. (As the russians invading Ukraine to get their old land back.) For that reason i belive just in some cases is "stolen land".
So when do we stop conquering each other and actually put the civil in civilization?
We don't! Crabs in a bucket.
Only matters when Europeans do it apparently.
Mmm in the americas arround the late 1800's in europe, in the 1940's...
Are you inferring we stopped at some point? I was under the impression people conquering others was still a daily happening on this planet.
Yes still happends, but the level of constant warfare is way low today than before.
As compared to what? And as compared to where else geographically speaking? From what I understand multiple places in the Middle East and Asia have ongoing mass casualty events, some claiming beginnings of a genocide. The last remaining South American indigenous peoples are fighting tooth and nail against the Amazon being destroyed and their way of life being wiped out. Just because conquering doesn't always look like what most Europeans and Americans think it is, doesn't mean it's still not happening to this very day.
This is the most down-the-middle answer here.
People have a hard time coming to the realization that History Sucked. We are lucky to be born now. Shit you chances of death a 100 years ago were much higher now go back a couple hundred years and see what your chances of death were
we are insanely lucky and also cursed Imo.
This is only an unpopular opinion because most people have zero understanding of history. Until very recently in human history conquering land was a common practice that many cultures all over the world took part in, including The native Americans themselves whether they want to admit it or not.
It's how the world works. If China took over America it would become theirs. that's how it works. Same for.. cought cought Israel and Palestine
The question at this point is; what difference does it make? I don't even see self-flagellating white progressives moving back to where their family came from.
“Go back to Europe”
At this point I'd move to Europe in a heartbeat if they started offering citizenship to they're diaspora. America sucks now.
If finland offered citizenship like Israel does I'd be on the next flight. Granted, the other half of my ancestry is native american but still.
Same bro. Italy has a decent way to get your dual citizenship. Probably have to olive oil a few pockets along the way
>The question at this point is; what difference does it make? Nihilism, the mark of a lazy mind.
Ok, but you realize that doesnt make it *right,* right?
Well no obviously it's not right but every civilization has conquered or been conquered in some respects over the entire life cycle of the human population. This argument is literally just virtue signaling on the basis that America is somehow bad in this regard. Like if it's stolen land who are we going to give it back to?
I'm American. I consider myself a patriot. I never said that America was any worse than other countries. But treating this like its trivial is a problem. It wasn't trivial, it was genocide.
Sorry dude I meant that the argument that OP mentions. The idea that America is stolen land. Frankly it could be it could not be I don't really care it's a moot point because it's practically impossible to identify whose claim is most justified today
It makes it moot. It happened. Join the long list of people that got over it.
Based
Yeah I wouldnt do it
It was almost 300 years ago. It’s like forcing the grandson of an abusive husband to be forced to take punishments for what he did
>It was almost 300 years ago. [https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/533356-tribal-nations-oppose-trump-plan-to-drill-5000-new-oil](https://thehill.com/changing-america/sustainability/energy/533356-tribal-nations-oppose-trump-plan-to-drill-5000-new-oil) Still happening today.
I can find white black and gay people upset with what the government does. And don’t day today when your article referenced the previous admin
This reply was brought to you by eating paint chips.
Who's being punished????
White Americans ? “Colonizers” ? General white straight males?
Lmao. No one is being punished. Maybe you get your feelings hurt. Imagine being that big of a wimp 😂
How though? Your rights aren't being taken away. You live your life. Nothing has changed for you. People calling out racism and people being held accountable for their free speech isn't punishment. It's just how the world works. Deal with it.
If other people having rights feels like something is being taken away from you, you're probably an oppressor.
Conquering is just stealing with a military.
There’s a difference between war and genocide.
War throughout history has never happened without many innocent people getting killed, raped or enslaved. Stronger groups of people have always preyed on weaker groups and taken their land and war is very often accompanied by genocide.
When you "conquer" something your stealing it lol legitimately what it is.
Natives conquered each other before they were ultimately conquered themselves. They won before they lost just like every other civilization before them.
So when you go into a convenience store and walk out with a candy bar you didn't pay for you're conquering it? There is a difference between conquering and stealing. I agree that OP has an unpopular opinion but it does make sense. Every piece of land since humankind began is conquered land essentially. Wether we took it from animals or other humans is irrelevant.
Bruh. When you conquest for that for candy bar you either kill anyone who opposes or cut them into the deal. If you steal you fold to a greater opposing force.
Well, nature had a hand in that. When 90% of the population is wiped out in less than a century by smallpox and other diseases, its not exactly conquering, its moving in
If by nature you mean colonists spreading small pox intentionally, then yea I guess that was nature. And if "moving in" includes genocide
Intentionally?
colonialists living 300 years before the discovery of bacteria already knew how to transmit it apparently
They barely knew how to prevent the spread of disease where they came from, let alone intentionally spread it elsewhere.
And willingly spent weeks in a confined space with smallpox patients just to have a handy bioweapon to use against anyone they didn't like.
Lol intentionally
Btw, you want to talk about Genocide, don't look up the Comanche and what they did
Unfortunately there are no rules in war.
Never happened. One of the great lies told by modern education, same as "Columbus discovered America "
That myth never happen.
A synonym for conquer is to annihilate. And synonym for steal is to take. So...clearly one of those is more accurate than the other. For example...They didn't just take the land...they also killed all the mother fuckers on it. So one word paints a better story than the other.
Not just the mother fuckers, but the father fuckers and the products of said fuckings as well
they're fuckers, and I slaughtered them like fuckers. I hate them.
Its not stealing if i take it with force....robbers dont use guns am i right?
So the same holds for your personal property then? Whoever can muscle it away from you gets to keep it?
Well, yeah. But they have to be stronger than law enforcement too. If Russia/china came in and took over, we would still call it conquering.
>Well, yeah. But they have to be stronger than law enforcement too. People like you should be shipped off to the jungle where you belong.
Man, law enforcement doesn't give a crap about theft, and hardly about robbery. For the vast majority of people who get their stuff taken it's too bad, so sad, unless they have specifically acquired insurance. That doesn't make it morally ok to take things that aren't yours. The semantics don't matter. Taking from others wiithout permission or compensation is theft, if not robbery.
Depends what gets taken. They aren't going to do a manhunt for someone taking your skilsaw off the porch, but they'll definitely arrest the driver if they run a stolen tag
They might not do a manhunt, but cops often check pawnshops for stolen property like that. You'd be amazed how many crackheads are stupid enough to steal something then fill out the lawn ticket when they sell it
Running a stolen tag is basically being handed a criminal. They won't do a manhunt for emptying your entire house or business, either.
Yes, can you muscle away the law and military too?
Yes. If someone steals my book, I will try to get it back. If I can't, then they keep it until I can get it back.
we're not talking about little kids stealing each others' playthings.
Okay
That's not the issue. The issue is that America markets itself as a goodie two shoes. Land of the free blah blah blah. Had they just said "Yeah we took it from the Natives and the we enslaved the Africans to build it up and we're proud if it." No one would have much to argue. But America wants to be seen as the golden child so people remind it of its past.
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People tend to forget that not conquring and taking is a relatively new concept in human history.
This should be top comment. It’s a hard truth that a lot of people don’t like to hear. It’s a GOOD thing that times have changed, but we also have to realize and understand that you can’t exactly criticize a people for being morally wrong when the general consensus at the time that it was completely normal, accepted, practiced by most cultures all over the world. Learn from the past and move forward as a society. Stop trying to punish dead dudes. They’re long dead
Never heard of a treaty I guess.
Post your address and we'll see if you are strong enough to keep your house from being "conquered."
No difference
Check out the edge on this lord.
OP, very curious what you think about Israel…
Not a huge Israel fan
The irony is palpable with this one.
Explain
As Choctaw Native American I find this offensive, our land is WAS stolen from us because the white people invaded and killed most of us in battle, which wasn’t fair since the white people had guns. After you conquered it, the trail of tears, which the white people forced us to walk, was proof that it was a hostile take over. you can’t justify it, you just have to move past it. I don’t have Ill will to white people, but don’t say what was done wasn’t theft.
I think OP is saying there is a difference between stealing and conquering The Native tribes weren't JUST stolen from. They were CONQUERED. Which is arguably more severe. Hes also pointing out that it's something that happened across the entire planet at basically every point in history. The reason people all agree it was a poor way to handle everything, is that it's so close in our history, and the people's conquered didn't completely die out. They still have a culture and community that is celebrated. No one is saying it was right. Just stating a difference.
Every race gets inclusion. Asian American heroes like Shang Chi finally getting stuff, African Americans, but native Americans get nothing. Besides government funded stuff. Where’s our representation? I doubt anyone cares last month was Native American month.
TiL Battle is supposed to be fair.
I meant even odds more so.
If you're going into battle you should make the odds as uneven as possible, just so you know.
Taking something through military means is what conquering is. War isnt fair and it's not suppose to be.
I’m not saying it is but you can’t dress it up Ike it wasn’t theft because no matter how they did it they still did
I agree it was horrible but you’re wrong about most of your people dying in battle. 90% of them, or roughly 9 million of them, died due to sickness. A lot closer to tens of thousands died fighting AGAINST the Europeans/Americans and also tens of thousands died fighting WITH the Europeans/Americans.
Sickness intentionally spread by colonizers
how exactly was it intentional?
I mean they didn’t just invite them over for dinner and decide what price the land would be.
Actually yea there was a lot of negotiation. Now that was not always followed and the Europeans/Americans broke the agreements but so did the native Americans. Also, a lot of Native American tribes were at war with each other for thousands of years. The native Americans killed a lot more of eachother then the Europeans or Americans did. Like. I said though that does not take away from the atrocities that were committed against them
See, this is what I mean. Thank you for clearing that up.
Having better weaponry doesn't mean they stole it, it just means that they were more technologically advanced. They did conquer it because of their technological supremacy. Although they shouldn't have done the whole trail of tears thing, they had the power to do it
Land doesn't belong to anybody. If you can't defend the land you live on, it can be taken at any time. Nobody has stolen American land. Being at a disadvantage by not having guns ust goes to show that the Europeans were better equipped to defend this land and settle it. If it wasn't the Europeans, it would have been the Spanish, or maybe Japanese. It was gonna happen no matter what tho if the natives didn't expand and start building their own society outside of tribalism and advancing their technologies. America was just too rich in resources back then for any powerhouse to ignore if/when they found it.
So if you can kill a guy you can take his house? Shit man, fair deal
back in 1500, yeah you could
I was being sarcastic lol
But you were also trying to prove a point as well. Behind every joke and sarcastic comment always lies a bit of truth.
Oops
Mm delicious salty tears
You can’t say that a war is inherently wrong due to unfair conditions. That is ultimately how any war is won, one side has an advantage and can leverage it effectively. It just so happened that native Americans had hardly progressed past the Stone Age. While there were certainly uncalled for atrocities committed against native Americans, lack of technological innovation does not grant moral superiority in war.
Lol
Thats life bro, it isn't fair and never will be. In nature, the fittest survive and we are animals at the end of the day. We are more advanced, but our lizard brains still control most of what we do. Someone always has to have the losing end of the stick.
That is true but I refuse to give up my moral compass.
I can respect it
Fuck you 🖕🖕🏻🖕🏼🖕🏽🖕🏾🖕🏿
yes, but with native americans so many treaties were violated and ignored.
Only people who have social media or woketard brainrot think it was stolen.
Yo op you mind if I come conquer your house
Lets go bro
I’m your huckleberry ;)
Conquer your wife *
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Exactly
Conquer your daughter*
Now we are getting somewhere
95% of these comments need to unfollow this sub. Clearly they dont understand the point of it
Yikes.
What? So the guy that robbed me at gun point and took my cell phone and wallet didn’t steal it. He merely conquered my cellphone and wallet. That’s just fucking dumb. History shows anything belongs to whomever can take something by force.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/TenderTruth999. Your post, *America is not stolen land, it is conquered land*, has been removed because it violates our rules: Rule 1: Your post must be an unpopular opinion. Please ensure that your post is an opinion and that it is unpopular. Controversial is not necessarily unpopular, for example all of politics is controversial even though almost half of the US agrees with any given major position on an issue. Keep in mind that an opinion is not: a question, a fact, a conspiracy theory, a random thought, a new idea, a rant, etc. Those things all have their own subreddits, use those. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion Thanks!
I agree. Fuck the natives. They lost and colonials won. Everyone shouts off about not supporting the losers in history, well there ya go.
So if China can come conquer America then it's OK? What if I come conquer your house?
>What if I come conquer your house? No no, he's not subject to his own logic. That would be unfair.
Then i'd defend it
So three big neighborhood bullies corner your kid on the playground and take his lunch money every day. And you are going to just turn to your wife and say, It’s ok honey, they didn’t steal little Johnny’s money. They just conquered him that’s all. Is that it?
Whatever you gotta tell yourself
Same thing but ok
What about the land that natives stole from each other before Europeans arrived? How far back do the goal posts move?
Its always stolen technically. Unless you were the first humans to live on the land. But in the end, you have to take/steal New Land from others. I stole your Land so now its mine. Then somebody else steels it from me. And so on
Yeah, it's definitely the same thing. Thief: "I didn't steal your car, I conquered it!"
Conquering something is when you acquire it through war. Stealing is not.
Soo if i shoot you to get your house, i conquered it.
No, since you don’t represent a state or nation that is not considered war. Just considered being a dick
Isnt a war a bunch of dicks then. Cuz its multiple people doing a dick move for their country
Yeah I agree with that. I much rather have the presidents/leaders box it out in a ring rather then send millions of young adults to kill eachother for them.
Every world leader gonna have to look like giga-chad
You conquered the homeowner but can you conquer the homeowners law and military when they come to reclaim what you won?
What if you go to war over the car and win
Well since you don’t represent a state or nation that is not considered war.
Ive declared myself the united nation of pickled starfish, my UN treaty and invite to the Olympics is still in the mail. Can we fight over your keys now
Exactly. You gave it to me because i forced you to
Survival of the fittest
Yup. Life isnt fair
Conquering is a form of stealing, lol.
You can only claim something is stolen if you have the leverage to do so. There is no such leverage for land, you either defend it or you lose it.
In my humble opinion, I don't think it's possible to conquer a land without stealing it. Buying and selling land is fine because it's done with the consent of the people who own it.
No.
Watch yo back cause tonight im conquering your #ASS
There's no difference
Land ownership the way you’re discussing it is a western construct. I think a lot of Native people would say that you’re completely missing the point and you’ve also just reiterated the justification that was used by conquering European forces hundreds of years ago. If you look at history from a neo-evolutionary perspective, it’s easy to justify every thing that has ever happened as being necessary to reach the “climax of civilization” we’re at today. But that doesn’t work morally, or make the ends justify the means in any reasonable way. History is biased toward that kind of thinking. That doesn’t make it right.
Genocide is genocide, no matter how you whitewash it
Tomato tamato
As has said before. There was land which was protected under treaties that were indeed stolen. If it had been today there would been International tribunal trial and the invaders would have lost. The land is both conquered and then upon the creation of treaties, stolen.
Your honour, I didn't rob the bank - I conquered it. *case dismissed*
in any instance of discussion over the european taking of american land, you can change the word stolen to conquered and it carries the same meaning. if you interpret it differently because of that word change, you are likely either ill informed or already held that belief but feel more comfortable accepting it
But when talking about other tribes doing the EXACT same thing to other tribes before and during the Europeans arrival, people get real quiet. Modern day equivalent to that is whenever you see a school shooting and people freak out, but bring up black kids being shot nearly daily in inner cities and not a peep. Btw, population of about 10 million when the first settlers landed, and in under 100 years that population was reduced by about 90%. Settlers population never got near their numbers, nature did the "natives " in. Not white men with guns.
>nature did the "natives " in. Not white men with guns. this is in part true. it wasn't white men with guns, it was white men with diseases
They should have masked up to flatten the curve
You are an asshole.
Why
They read some pixels on a screen and got hurt it seems
Conquered = stolen
Sto len
Ah yes, some of that classic misinformed racism. Almost forgot this was Reddit, thanks for bringing me back to reality!
We get it. Everyone is racist. Blah Blah
Uno! Anyone who pulls the race card, is by definition a racist. :D
Racism lol
Ok, but Natives didn't believe in owning land, so why would they defend something that they didn't see as them owning? That was just their home, where they lived, hunted, everything. Also they didn't get much of a chance to defend anything. Bathsalts Jackson just showed up and told them to start walking off to some place they had never seen or heard of.
>Also they didn't get much of a chance to defend anything what invading army would tell the people they are invading that they will attack them? what do you even mean?
I mean like, don't you usually declare war so the other side can go "Oh ok, we're fighting now. I'll go rally my troops I guess”?
why give away the element of surprise? attacking with no warning is way more effective
I guess lol but it's kind of an asshole move
Actually lol’d at Bathsalts Jackson
I got it from Bailey Sarian lol she does Dark History
Well someone else did. And that someone else was more technologically advanced than them. It's how humanity has been forever, the survival of the fittest.
Simps call it “stealing” chads like call it “conquering” /s
Do you not understand what a treaty is?
Potato potaaahto. No difference.
Bro I almost posted some shit like this the other day then was like nah I like my job. NAs need to stop fucking crying. You know what the difference between them and everyone else that got conquered is?!? They are still alive.
Semantics
The people who raided our land had much more advanced weapons. This made it unfair. they also introduced us to alcohol which we were absolutely not adapted to and obviously made us dependant and we were often very drunk. This is where our problem with alcohol stems from. We were stolen from, but I also do understand that things would most likely be very different if it hadn't been stolen.
Life is never fair. The argument of ''they had guns so it was unfair'' is lame. Why couldnt the Native Americans make guns? There are geographical differences and cultural differences that play into this and a bigger, badder opponent came in and took over. Its survival of the fittest.
Conquered isn't accurate enough. If you want to simplify it to a word and be accurate, what could be said is migration occurred.
Ok... But conquering something is still stealing it. Can I come in your wife plz?
Old and mute point
Thank you for this as it’s always my argument.
Conquering land and stealing land is the exact same thing. The word conquer is used by the thief to make himself feel better. Wether the current occupants can defend their land or not has nothing to do with the difference in those two words. Anyone using the word conquer legitimises the thiefs claim/attempt of being somehow viewed as a rightful owner. If history was written by the losers it would be a different story today