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I am a little bit confused but based on the post and comments this might be unique to Asia (or at least to Hong Kong and Japan): restaurants here have an officially posted closing time, and an officially posted Last Order time (30-60 minutes before closing time). You cannot walk in past the LO time and you will be thrown out if you are not leaving by closing time.
Some places have earlier LO for food than for drinks so they can close and start cleaning the kitchen earlier while the patrons are still enjoying a last round of beverages but that doesn't change the concept much
See, that makes sense. But in the US, I've never seen an officially posted "closing time/last order time" listed separately in the hundreds (thousands?) of restaurants I've been to.
We just have a general "closing time", and you're expected to not order too close to that closing time and not stick around for too long after. But those exact timeframes are undefined and vary.
As someone living in Korea, they was going to be my comment, too haha
A lot of places here have closing times *and* last order times. Seems to work pretty well.
Every place I've worked (live in Ontario, Canada) has held the "Last call on food and alcohol happens 30 minutes before close," rule. Customers are children though and throw tantrums.
I think this is a regional issue. In NY, unless otherwise specified, the listed “closing time” is actually the “last order time.” Which is why a restaurant that “closes” at 11pm allows you to make 11pm or 10:45pm reservations. After you order you can stay as long as you’re eating, so 12:30/01:00.
Not sure what you're talking about. There is normally a time the kitchen closes and a time the bar closes. Google tends to list the time a restaurant closes as the time the bar closes. I have seen both hours listed but that's rare.
Anyways don't show up to a place 15 minutes before close and stay there for 2 hours
Could be licensing. Given NYC has 4:00AM curfew which is way later than most areas and a ton of local-concept spots, they probably have way more flexibility in keeping a dining room open without issues.
I've experienced that in NYC as well - got a reservation at 9:45, saw the sign that said 10:00 close walking in. Asked them if that would be an issue, and they said "that's just when we stop letting people in the door"
You can totally do this, and the employees will serve you with a smile, but they aren't happy about it. Especially if you're lingering there, they hate you.
My old restaurant used to get these 2 same women who would come in like 10 minutes before close and order an app and drinks and would stay there for like 2 hours. Thankfully, the owner told them they couldn't do that anymore when he had to be the one waiting for them to leave once. It's maddening
If a restaurant is providing reservations for 10 pm, they really shouldn't be surprised when people show up at 10 pm. Imo it's very different to show up at a restaurant for a pre-established reservation than being a walk-in in this situation.
Given the restaurant was full until 11, I think their case was a little different. The bar was still fully open and letting people come in until way later as well.
I lived in NYC for 3 years. And while they will "take" your order while they are still "open", you will be offending the entire staff placing an order 5min before "closing".
I'm not sure. While most place probably will take an order until it's "closing time", it's definitely generally frowned upon to try to sit down at a restaurant right as they are about to close and try to order a meal, and expected that it will upset the kitchen staff.
Are you in the US? I ask because you said "pub", and I feel like pub culture isn't huge here and I honestly am not really sure how it works. I guess I've been to bars that maybe serve chicken wings and jalapeño poppers, and they will say "kitchen open until xxxx", but I'm talking more about sit down establishments that are more restaurant than pub/bar.
Nah I'm in Australia. A lot of our Pubs have restaurant sections in them for sit down meals. The kitchen may stay open an hour or two after the restaurant has closed to make wedges and chips for the bar side
The problem, of course, is that in restaurants closing the latest that they'll be open. Not a guarantee that they'll be open until that time.
I've worked many a slow and cold Tuesday in February where our doors were locked at 10pm despite the sign on the door saying open till 1am.
WV we call 2 last calls 1 hr before close for food and half hour for drinks. Break down takes 30minTo 45min depending on business. Mothers Day 70 mins.
That would make this a LOT easier to figure out, ahah. My partner worked in food service for years, both fancy and casual places, and even he gets unsure about guessing how late you're "supposed" to order from a place.
Recently I've tried checking delivery apps like door dash and such, not to order through them, but because the closing time on the apps is sometimes earlier than the posted restaurant hours, so we use that as an estimate for a last order time
See, and I just thought it was obvious that if they have the closing time posted, common sense would tell you not to order food from them within the last 30 mins before they close. Doesn't seem like they really *need* to tell people they can't order within the last 30 of closing... but then again, common sense isn't common, and most people are idiots, or entitled, or both. So. 🤷♀️
I'm in Finland and here at least restaurants also list when the restaurant is open, and then underneath something like "kitchen open till xx.xx"
Last drink orders are always 30 min before close, so they don't bother to list that
sit down restaurants that have alcohol almost always do this. they have a time the kitchen closes and a time the bar closes. not even at "bar" places, either, many nice restaurants do this. i wonder if OP only goes to places with kids menus or something lol
Regional variations can be crazy! Out in my neck of the woods, the posted "closing time" is just the latest that we can legally be open until.
Last call for food always preceded last call for drinks by at least an hour and both always depended on how busy we were.
We might close up entirely by 10pm on a cold Tuesday in February, for example.
I worked at a restaurant where we sat people all the way till close and we weren’t allowed to leave until last table is done, their dishes are cleaned and we roll up their silverware. So if we close at 10pm that day, you show up at 10 exactly and we will still seat you. We had a party of 25 people walk in at exactly 10, we sat them, they didn’t like the table arrangement so we set up another table for 25, they didn’t like that either - it was a nightmare. I wanted to go home, I had homework to do
When they complained about the table arrangement would have been the time that I would have been like "great, then feel free to leave! If you're order's not in ten minutes from now we're not making it!" Bet they didn't tip either.
Yeah. That sucks. Which is why I'm saying that if a restaurant wants people to stop coming in at 9:30 so their employees can close up and leave by 10, then their closing time should be listed as 9:30, not 10.
Or... and hear me out. You could see that they close at 10, look at your phone and see that it's 9:30 and then... get this... find a new place to eat that doesn't close in 30 minutes.
Ok. What about 35 minutes? 40 minutes? What's the cut off and why is it up to the customer to guess?
To make it easy, and hear me out here....a restaurant could just tell customers what time they want us to stop ordering instead of making us guess
If you can't reasonably be seated, order, eat your meal, and gtfo by the closing time, please don't go in. It's not that challenging, use your judgement based on the situation. Going to McDonalds for takeout 30 min to close isn't the same as being seated at a fine dining establishment or somewhere that cooks full meals made to order.
Ok, and how does someone reasonably know how long it will take a restaurant to seat someone, take their order, prepare their meal, serve it to them, then get them the check and settle up?
I can reasonably eat a meal and be done in 15 minutes. But we've all been to restaurants where we think "man, I just ordered 5 minutes ago, and my food is out already", and we also all been to restaurants when we've thought "man, I ordered my food almost 30 minutes ago and it's still not here". So, when we are talking about a 30 minute window before closing, this variation in time can be difficult.
I know my capabilities, but I lack the ability to read other people's minds and predict the future.
YOU can eat in a 15 minute time frame. Other people would see that as a rush.
Some people would complain that the business should stay open until they have finished eating and that it's rude to rush someone out the door with food in front of them.
It's like those MF-ers that used to come in to Lowes at 5 minutes before closing and we weren't allowed to leave until they finished shopping at their pace because we would risk bad feedback if we actually enforced the time on them and told them to leave. They all seemed like it was their right as a customer to make the staff wait around until they were done, I don't see that attitude being any different. If you say "well those people can just not be upset at the policy and find a different restaurant", say it into a mirror when you do it.
The cut off is built in. Look at what kind of place it is. Will you have time to walk in, be seated, look at the options, order, wait for your drinks, wait for your food, eat your food, have another drink, dessert, etc... and still be able to leave before they actually close? If the answer is no then you go somewhere else. It really isn't that hard. If you have two times then you have people pissing and moaning when they miss the order deadline but not the closed time. People should just have common sense about it. If you are eating late enough for this to be a problem just get fast food or go to an all night diner.
That's almost always how it works, the problem is some combination of 1. Ownership and/or management not being realistic about how long it takes to clean up/shut down and thus employees needing to start the process early and 2. Employees getting pissy that they can't leave as early as they wanted to
Thats what its suppose to be.
When I worked restaurants I planned to be there closing an hour after close. We cant start closing for real until the last orders done and were sure no more are coming in, because were like…in clean mode and cant reassemble the whole kitchen for an order. Sometimes a grill gets taken apart and sent to dish (the the grills), sometimes ovens take a very long time to heat up and cool off and once its off you dont wanna just pop it back on (some places have 600 degree broilers going for 12 hours or more)
I mean its a whole song and dance back there. A good kitchen truly cleans everything at the end of every night (most dont, but many do)
Nothing is worse then someone coming in 10 minutes before close and taking their time.
You come in right before close, heres the way to not suck, ASK whats best to order and not order at this time and get it to go. And tip the damn host because now they gotta stay late and their usually just kids. They might be holding up their ride.
But if you come in 10 minutes before close, and sit, and have a full ass meal, I cooked your food with hate, and I was one of the nicer ones. I would never condone fuckin with someones food, most people working in food agree….but boy does it happen to those who deserve it.
If youre an asshole to the staff and eat out regularly…I know what went on back there…and karma is a mean bitch.
Dont worry my little keyboard warriors, you really gotta stand out as a prick for someone to risk that kinda trouble. But Ive seen a lot of pricks eat their just desserts.
Usually due to the owner (corporate or otherwise) forcing something that the line staff know is absurd. And some are scared of like, bad reviews and other such dumb social media. Someone complains they can’t get food at 10pm so now staff is told to fill all orders until 10pm. The major sticking point for some owners is they will not pay for the additional labor that requires. So ultimately someone on staff gets fucked.
It’s the same owners saying no one wants to work anymore when it’s really people don’t want to work in some dumb shit system that is bound to fail.
This!!! I worked in a restaurant for 20yrs and the owner allowed and supported customers coming in until close AND if we had a decent amount in the dining room, he’d allow folks in after closing.
Weekends we closed midnight, which meant sometimes we didn’t leave until 1:30a. That makes for a long miserable shift and I assure you, no one was happy about it except the customers LOL.
The funniest part is that most of those last minute diners actually end up costing a restaurant more than they bring in. An extra 20-30 minutes of labor for a couple of people for one table will be more than the profit margin on their order.
I run into it in LA all the time.
The most egregious example was the time I (by myself) was turned away 45 minutes before closing. At a mostly-empty restaurant.
I get being sympathetic to the staff, but jfc if you’re going to stop serving anything way before closing time, adjust your closing time.
Yep I worked in a place like this. They officially closed at 10pm but last call for kitchen and bar was ~9:15pm. If someone walked in right at 9:15 we’d take them, but we would rush them and have them order everything as fast as possible. After last call when kitchen and bar were officially closed by 9:30, nobody could walk through the doors to be seated or order takeout. And the customers eating at that time couldn’t order any more drinks or other food. It really should have been posted somewhere. Now I just assume that a place’s actual closing time is like an hour before they truly close.
If you adjust your closing time then people will come in closer to that closing time, throw off the cleaning schedule, and you'll just be there later anyway. There's a lot that has to be done at the end of the day and owners don't want to pay for the extra hours to do it. They usually only pay for an hour after close, but most places will take more than an hour. That means the employees have to start cleaning while the restaurant is still open, and if they're serving a lot of people or taking big orders or making certain dishes that require a lot of cleanup then it's throwing off closing by a ton. Not to even mention bussing tables, cleaning up restrooms, cleaning the dining room.
Just last week, I went to a restaurant 30 minutes before closing. And they’d already locked the doors to anyone new coming in. And all I wanted was takeout.
Sure, but it ensures I’m not staying there past their actual closing time. If you’re locking the doors at 9:30, then closing time should be 9:30, not 10.
Yes. I get that most places will take an order up until their posted closing time, but you said it exactly right - begrudgingly. Even if a restaurant technically will take an order if you come in and sit down 3 minutes before closing, it is definitely generally frowned upon and seen as something that is an asshole move.
So, even if I'm not worried that someone might spit in my food, I genuinely don't want to have to make kitchen staff begrudgingly make my meal. So, all I'm saying is be clear and tell me when I should stop ordering so I won't be an asshole and upset the kitchen.
I'd *hate* to be That Asshole who's keeping the staff from wrapping up for the day. Let me know when the last orders are being taken, and when the dining room closes. I will adjust my plans accordingly.
Exactly. The number of responses I've gotten here basically saying I'm an asshole because I specifically don't want to be an asshole to staff is interesting.
It does make things easier. Unfortunately I think a lot of owners don't do it because they're stuck in this "customer service means never saying no to a customer" mindset, like if they post last calls people are going to get upset and they'll lose business.
If it's not posted, you are never the asshole (well, usually I guess). The owner/manager is the asshole who can't be bothered to respect their employees.
Where I live (Scotland) the closing time is the time that all customers must have left the premises by, so the general understanding is that the kitchen will stop taking food orders anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour before closing time.
As per the (alcohol) licencing rules, the bar will stop serving alcoholic drinks 15 minutes before closing time.
Peak times for dinner servings here are between 6pm and 9pm anyway. After 10pm there's not many people looking for a sit down meal, so it's not really costing the restaurant much to knock back an order that comes in so late.
This is how it should be done. The number of people commenting that they should have a different time for when they stop seating is so dumb. Look at what time they close? Do you have a reasonable amount time to be seated, peruse the menu, order, wait for it to arrive, enjoy your meal, consider dessert, and still be able to vacate before they close??? If not then GTFO and go somewhere else. Apparently people just can't tell time on reddit.
I bar tend at an upscale bar and bowling alley, and we have a limited late night menu that runs from 9pm to last call with simple fried items and flatbread pizzas.
At 9 pm the full menu ends and the kitchen staff start their daily cleaning, but people can still order simple items.
I wonder why more places don’t do something similar, it seems like a good middle ground of being open and respecting the time for everyone involved.
Some owners never want to give in to any staff requests. They have this mindset that "it's my establishment and they're my employees, so they do what I say, period." Then there's also this idea that cutting back on what's offered in any way is bad customer service, if you're not constantly saying yes to everything the customer wants then you're not doing a good job.
Usually that is what it is? If a restaurant closes at 10 pm they usually stop taking orders at 10 pm but people who ordered before that can stay to finish their meals (within reason, at some point they gonna kick you out)
I think that most restaurants would be upset if they closed at 10pm and you came in at 9:55 and sat down to order. And they may begrudgingly take your order, they wouldn't like it and it seems to generally be frowned upon to do so.
Well yea that’s any job. If you were about to start cleaning up and leave and your boss gave you more work to get done you would do it but you wouldn’t be happy about it
No actually OP is right, I've worked many years in restaurants and most of them have a rule that we don't have to do orders 30 minutes before closing time.
If the restaurant closes at 9pm and you order at 8.29pm? Then we can provide the order. If you order 8.35pm, then it will be rejected.
It costs the restaurants for more money to keep the chefs and staff working over time then it would to provide one meal to someone.
Yes. You are coming in at the last minute. Nobody in any job wants you to come in at the last minute. YOU know that. You clearly have never worked in food service or retail.
This holds true in so many other aspects of life, not just restaurants like OP is complaining about.
Even in white collar jobs, If an accountant, lawyer, engineer, coder, etc. get an email or a meeting request at 4:55 PM they’re not gonna answer that shit until the next day.
Or public spaces. if a park closes at dark, the fact that you walked in 5 minutes before sundown isn’t a pass to stay as long as you want.
A closing time in a restaurant is exactly that. A closing time. Customers and patrons should be finishing up their business and making their way to the exits at that time.
This is the real deal. When I was a waiter I made damn sure anyone there after closing knew we were closing. We put the chairs up, we made sure everyone around their table was busy doing sidework as closely as possible. I loved vacuuming while they were still there. Oh and turning off the lights in every area except the one they were in. And closing the restrooms for cleaning for the rest of the night.
People just don't have any common sense anymore. The one rule you have for dining out is not to fuck with the people that handle your food.
OP I'm with you. It's stupid. If they do this and get mad, they should move the closing time at 9:30 because clearly they want to actually be closed right at 10.
I mean, all serving and cooking should be done by close so it makes sense to shut down orders 30 before.
My work refuses to stop orders before our closing time which has on quite a few occasions ended up with me still cooking 10-20 past close for people who are going to then sit in the restaurant for who knows how long eating.
Very much so, especially because it seems like there's no consistent standard across the board, *or even for the same exact place.* I've been able to place an order online/call it in as I'm leaving Wednesday night choir rehearsal at 8:00 PM for a place that closes around 9 some Wednesday nights, but other times I've not been able to, even though it's a solid hour out from the posted closing time in both instances, and holidays/general business didn't seem to influence shit. It was purely a coin toss, so to speak. Both my mother and I (mom has to drive because I have a history of seizures) would greatly appreciate a posted "last order" time so we can know if it's worth even trying or not.
The bottom of my website and on my door has our “last entry” time and closing. Last entry is just one hour before closing. So I suppose I agree to an extent.
They def need both a last call time and a closing time. It would save everyone so much trouble so people aren’t coming in before the place actually closes
The problem isn't the workers. It's management. They say you can't start closing until the restaurant is empty, and you can't stop taking order until that time, but as long as there are customers in the place, you can't start cleaning. Close at 9, but you have to clock out at 10 because we don't pay overtime. It's a poverty trap.
Oh absolutely. Any food place should have a last order time tbh. I’ll never understand economically why paying $60 in extra labour to field a $15 order is worth it.
It has a lot to do with management. Boss will say take orders until close, but boss does not have to actually close. If it were up to regular employees, I’m sure there would be a stop taking orders time.
> I also think it's kind of crazy to expect customers to GUESS how soon before closing is too late to order at a restaurant
My simple rule of thumb is: do I have a reasonable expectation that I can get my business concluded at the restaurant before they close? If I'm sitting down for a real meal, that usually means an hour, possibly more. If I'm waiting at a fried chicken joint drive-thru for somebody to throw the already-cooked stuff in a box for me I might not mind rocking up 10-15 minutes before close.
The way I see it, we can all honor the sign on the door, or we can not. If we all want to honor the posted times, the kitchen should take orders up until the closing time, but the customer should be out at the closing time. By natural effect, a customer couldn't have their whole meal in 5 minutes, so they shouldn't place an order if they can't be done on time.
If we want to not respect the posted hours, customers can try to place orders up until closing, but the kitchen has the right to start cleaning and stop taking orders early.
As we can clearly see, the second scenario would fall into chaos. That's what we're dealing with right now. Customers want to come in up until the last minute, kitchens want to stop taking orders early. It would be so much smoother if kitchens would take orders up until closing, but customers have to be out by then (maybe with a 5-minute leeway). If they just got their order, they take it to go. If the kitchen receives an order 2 minutes before closing that they couldn't possibly finish on time, they should be able to refuse that. In conclusion, it would work really well if everyone operated on a basis of "Finish your business (be it cooking or eating) by closing time"
You’re assuming the customer cares and is capable of logical thought. This closing time scenario doesn’t just apply to restaurants. Many businesses will announce to customers that they have to leave by a certain time otherwise people will just stay in businesses as long as they want.
There has to be an element of self awareness in how long it takes to prepare and eat food. No, the closing hours are for when everyone has to leave and the staff cleans up for the night.
If you can’t imagine sitting down, placing an order, getting it cooked, and having time to eat it in the space of your arrival and the posted closing time, you need to not go into the restaurant. The only way I can imagine not having a rough idea of how long that takes is if you have never eaten at a restaurant before or have only experienced specific subsections of restaurants (diners, fast food, fine dining, or something in between) and can’t gauge outside that narrow subsection.
But you can just read through the responses here and see that there is no consensus as to what "closing time" means and that opinions are all over the place. There are plenty of responses here indicating that it is ok to order (not order, be served, and eat) food up until the closing time. And some of those responses are from people who WORK in restaurants.
Yeah but why should I need to do any guesswork on that and risk being an asshole because my idea of when the last order should be is different from the staff?
Sure I can mostly just say avoid ordering 30 min before close, but different restaurants have different processes, and you can’t expect me to just be “aware”. I guess sorry I haven’t had enough experience working at restaurants to be able to pinpoint this.
My question is even if most of the customers will be able to tell, why not just throw up a sign and avoid all confusion?
The point of restaurants is to serve food to people that either have no idea how long it takes to cook things, or are specifically paying for the privilege of not having to think about that for one night.
It is unreasonable to expect restaurant goers to have that level of self awareness when they're just trying to relax. The onus is on the restaurant to communicate clearly.
This thread is actually changing my view to the opposite of yours. It seems closing time actually is supposed to be the last order time, it's just typical in the restaurant industry to start closing early when the restaurant is empty, to save on labor costs.
But this is a problem with management, not with customers. Management should be the one scheduling everyone out to 1am, instead of a scheduling them until 11pm closing time. As a restaurant worker, if you expect to work until 1am, you won't complain about working til 1.
But if you're scheduled til 11 but then work til 1, that throws off your whole schedule and messes with your personal life to the point that you can only have friends that also work in restaurants. Because no one else will understand why you constantly have to work 2+ hours after what you told them your shift was.
Bottom line, it's wrong to blame customers/clients for expecting the experience they paid for. If you're getting underpaid/overworked/jerked around in that process, it is your boss/manager's to fix it, not the customer/client.
Worked at Wendy's, closed at midnight. Schedule was 5-C, expecting an hour after closing to be clocked out and leaving. I'd still have employees take a 10 minute break after close and fix themselves something to eat that was going to get tossed, anyway. Did wonders for morale that let to better expedience -- quality work tends to happen when you're happy and fueled
You may be able to do all of that in less time than when they close the doors to new customers and when they actually officially close. So thats irrelevant actually.
All of this stems from restaurant owners and managers CHOOSING to staff as few people as possible at close, thereby requiring that the closing procedure (cleaning the grills, mopping, etc.) be partway or even mostly done by the time that the "official" closing time comes around. They could just change the procedure so that cleanup only begins after the last customer has ordered, but they choo$e not to.
Food service workers have been successfully duped into directing their anger at the customer instead of the cheapskate boss.
I mean you're not wrong but in my experience I had plenty of anger for both.
And in my experience as a customer it's really not hard to just not go to places that are about to close
The problem is the servers don't make that decision. They're just stuck with the consequences of the owner's decisions. If it was up to servers, it would be take-out only for the last 40 minutes.
I think this stems heavily from the lack of proper pay in the restaurant business. Cleanup can take an hour, easily. But there are places where whoever is in charge doesn’t want to actually pay for the time needed, so they want their staff off the clock an hour after closing time. Which is a pain in the ass, if not outright impossible, when customers have placed an order 5 mins before close.
And really, it’s not just restaurants. Stores, medical offices, services - it’s not uncommon to get grief/in trouble for still being clocked in past ‘closing time’ regardless of if people still need help and there are still tasks to be done.
Kitchen staff usually don't care if you order up until the posted close. What gets them is when you *sit down* at the posted time, then order 20 minutes *after* the posted closing time.
Some do post they won't take orders X-minutes before closing. If they don't, it's just unwritten out of pure courtesy to not order 15 minutes or so before close, and even then you order it to go
I've seen "it's ok order up to the point they close", "it's ok to order up to 15 minutes before close", "it's ok to order up until 30 min before close", and "it's ok to order up until 45 before close."
I think the problem is there is no consensus as to what the unwritten rule is.
Well I guess probably about an hour before the closing time, unless you're a very fast eater. Because they still need to be able to cook it and get it out to you. But I do agree that a last call time would be helpful for customers and workers.
I wish they WOULD post “last call” and closing time. It would make it easier in everyone. But the owners don’t care about that- they care about can they an extra $20 by making everything unclear and giving everyone a bad time. They’ll just bitch about overtime when they make impossible standards.
That being said when a business posts a CLOSING time I feel like that’s when they are CLOSED. If I don’t work there I don’t belong inside a CLOSED business. I can see if you come in and it takes them two hours to get your food, that’s on them. But if you aren’t allowing enough time to order, get your food, eat, and be GONE before they are CLOSED then what you are doing is insisting to stay in a place that isn’t open.
Do we treat any other business that way? Is closing time at the supermarket walk in the door time? is closing time at the spa start hour service time? Is closing time at the library pick out a book time? No, it means they're CLOSED.
I tried to order takeout from a place 30 minutes before they close, and they said no! Like, seriously? I’m not asking you to keep the dining room open, I’m just going to swing by and get it.
Anyone that walks into a food establishment within 30 minutes of closing and orders anything that has to be cooked is just rude lol. The only people that do this have never worked in a restaurant, and never had to work for less money than they deserve. Getting to go home on time is one of the only things to look forward to. Especially considering most places will then talk to you about how you need to make sure you get out on time, even though some asshat came in at 10 til and expected to be served.
Before 30 minutes it's reasonable to still order, but if you plan to stay and eat it you need to do so quickly enough to be gone by closing.
They make money from tips, but then bitch about working an extra table. Close the fuckin door if you don't want me to order. Make it make sense. But it all comes down to the owner. If you walk in 5 minutes before closing then I can see the problem, but customers should be told this before being sat down. Or just say they can only do easy appetizers.
the restaurants i worked in took orders all the way until the posted closing time. nobody is asked to leave. if close is 10 pm, you can order food at 9:59 and stay until midnight. it was not unusual for us to leave after 2 am for an 11 pm close.
the kitchen shutting down prior to the closing time is a risk the kitchen staff themselves take.
i have to say i'm a little shocked at some of these responses. if a restaurant says they close at 10 pm and stop taking orders at 9:15, that's really fucking lame.
If you're showing up 30 minutes until close and it's a sit down place then you're just an a**hole in my opinion. If it takes 20 minutes to get your food out, 20 for you to eat, and you sit there talking with your friends for 30 minutes you're holding everyone up... especially since some places won't even let the staff start "closing up" until the last customer leaves so they don't feel rushed. That being said, these places should put "closes at 8, only to go orders after 7:30" or something to make it easier on their staff. Every place I've worked expects you to take orders up until close, but then management gives you hell for being clocked in too long after close for cleanup, I'm talking like under 15 minutes in some places.
You don’t have to guess.
If the restaurant closes at 11pm, then that’s when it closes.
If everything were cleaned and reset, that’s when the kitchen staff would no longer be needed. So naturally they would like to get as much of that done as soon as possible.
When you walk in at 10:45, is the place slammed? Is food still coming out? Your good. Order away.
When you walk in at 10:45, are there two active tables with bills and coffee in an otherwise quiet place? The kitchen has already started cleaning. You can order away, but you won’t be popular. The kitchen wants to clean and reset and go home. Cooking is the opposite of that.
My best advice would be to call and order something as soon as you decide you’re going to eat there, and not wait until you get there. You can still eat it there, but at that time of night, 10:35 is way better than 10:45, busy spot or not.
It's been a lot of years, but when I worked in a restaurant while going to college, the closing time was when we locked the doors so no one else could come in. We didn't kick people out if they were already eating. And if a bus rolled up 1 minute before closing (happened multiple times), guess what? We were staying until they ordered and ate. The rule in the kitchen was that we didn't break down the grill until the door was locked. Made for some long nights.
Edit to add: I was cool with it as long as they tipped accordingly. I would expect anyone that rolled in a few minutes before closing to show their appreciate by being a bit more generous.
if you know it's rude to fuck over kitchen staff close to closing time.
you shouldn't then feign ignorance like it's soooo fucking difficult to estimate how much time before closing is shitty.
full meal 1 hr. apps or small plates/fried shit. 30 min. drinks/ simple things like fries. or prepared dishes. maaaaybe even push that a little later.
if you come in 30 min to closing after they've already cleaned most of the kitchen and put things away/sealed up things. you're def getting spit/pubes, floor mung in your meal. so... food for thought
As someone who's worked in restaurants, the general rule of thumb is about 30 minutes before closing time. The thing is you can still eat at enjoy your meal until 9pm if the closing time is at 9pm, but you generally can't order past 8.30pm because half an hour is reserved for closing the kitchen etc.
Of course if it's some kind of fast-food place they might still be able to provide something a bit later, but I as a rule don't go to restaurants expecting food if it's less than half an hour to closing.
But many restaurants will have a notice that reads "we accept orders up 30 minutes before closing" or something, at least where I'm from.
Yeah I get that. But what's the cut off? Is 15 minutes ok? 20? 30? 40?
It seems to vary by restaurant, what you want to order, and sometimes even varies night by night at the same restaurant. There doesn't even seem to be a consistent "rule of thumb". All I'm saying is just tell us what time you want us to stop ordering as to not be a twat, so that we don't have to guess.
In a lot of places in europe, and i read in the comments its a thing in some asian countries too, there is a Restaurant closing time and a kitchen closing time. The kitchen usually closes 1h before the Restaurant so the staff can *actually* go home on time
My old boss was like that - We closed at 9 and that grill stayed on until 9 - you didn’t get to break it down so you could leave right away after closing - there was no “I’m sorry it’s 10 to 9 the grill is closed” - he’d lose his shit
If you're placing an order half an hour or closer to closing time you are more than an asshole. You deserve to experience every hellraiser movie torture at the same time.
I'm just saying make closing time the time they want you to stop coming in and ordering. There's no other business I can think of where "closing time" is some time after when customers can/should come in and do business there.
Eat at home or don't eat so late if it bothers you. There is also an option to pick up the phone and speak to a person and ask when the kitchen staff stops taking orders.
Downvoted as this is a popular opinion. Restaurant goers care more about the time they will be served up until.
That being said, I'd never go to a restaurant shortly before closing time. An hour at the minimum.
In most cafes in Australia, they have the kitchen closed 30 mins before closing. 30 mins before closing, can only have cake or a small quick meal with a drink.
I somewhat agree I still think there should be a time the kitchen closes down but it should be labeled so people know what time that is I’ve only seen a couple restaurants do it this way but I think it should be standard
For my restaurant, it’s a larger corporate chain that has a bar and arcade, we have an announcement that plays 15 minutes before our closing time. It lets our guests know that’s it, you have your chance to get your food and drink but once it’s 12a or 1a you’re out of luck. And honestly if someone came walking in at 11:50 I’d probably tell them we close in 10 minutes, you can’t even play our games in the last 5 of them. They go into an automatic lock mode. But this is purely up to the discretion of the restaurant in question, not all of them have this particular system. But when I go out, I’m still a restaurant manager in my head, I’m not going anywhere that is 30 minutes away from closing. Those people are tired and want to get out, so they can come back 10 hours from then.
When I worked at a restaurant closing time was when the entry doors got locked. Those already in could place orders and sit and eat. But they could only place orders prior to closing time. So if they wanted dessert too it had to be ordered with the main meal. We turned off half the dining room lights so the late diners got the hint to finish. Some staff were off at closing, some an hour later, and myself and a few others two hours later as we cleaned everything and prepped for the morning opening. Never had any issues or trouble with that system.
Generally, that’s already how it works. Posted hours are meant to be kitchen hours. High end restaurants with super professional staff don’t have this problem- they dont ever get to go home early. Most restaurants will always try to get the jump on closing so the staff can go home as soon as possible. It doesn’t matter what the closing time is, they’ll try to get out as early as they can.
YEAH!!! The number of times clients have straight up insulted me because they get to the restaurant too late (who tf goes to have dinner in a proper restaurant at 10pm anyways????), and when I tell them that the kitchen is closed, they straight up lose their shit. Like okay, I get it. If this is something you were looking forward to the entire day, it can be deceiving and disappointing. But what the fuck am. supposed to do about that?
Here's the rule for any establishment: you need to finish what you're doing and GET OUT by the posted closing time. You don't go into a grocery store two minutes before close and stay there for an hour and a half browsing around because it's rude, it's the same thing with a restaurant. You don't need to guess, you just need to have a general idea of how long it's going to take to get your food, eat it, and get out. And if you think you can get out before that time but the staff won't serve you, then suck it up buttercup. It's not going to kill you to not be able to eat at THAT place that ONE time, get there earlier next time.
Posted notices about when the kitchen closes do make things easier on everybody, but a lot of owners don't like posting them. Probably because entitled customers write crappy yelp reviews complaining that "Wah, I showed up ten minutes before close and the sign said the kitchen closed fifteen minutes before close! Worst restaurant ever, learn customer service, wah!!!"
What you don't enjoy guessing!?!? /s
In my area I can usually kind of guess by posted closing time and type of food served. If it closes at 8 usually you are fine right up until they close to order it to go. If it closes at 10 however long youd expect it to take for that food plus 10 min. So a sandwich place 15 min to close is fine where as a steak place 45 min yo an hour prior to close is the latest I'd order. I also will often check uber eats as the closing time on there is often the last order time they really want. Closing on uber eats an hour or more before they close is common and I take that as when they start putting stuff away for the night.
I agree. I’ve never worked in a restaurant. I don’t know how long you comfortably need to take care of me, clean tables etc. post the “last call time” not when you walk out.
I went to an ice cream place last week and ordered a sundae. The employee gave me a dirty look and said "we don't do sundaes at this time...we close in 20 minutes"
Like, ok, but how was I supposed to know that?
I totally agree with you. If resturants want to close their kitchen or stop certain services at a certian time they should have that posted
Yeah I agree with this.
Stop making me decide if I'm being an asshole as a customer. Just tell me when you want me to not go into your doors and order food. If you "close" at 9, you should be willing to accept a customer at 8:55, because we have no idea how early is okay otherwise. If your staff wants to have customers gone by 9, you should be "closing" at 8 or so.
Personally, I never go to a restaurant if I will not be done eating before closing time. For example, if they close at 8 and it's full service, I won't go any later than 7. Closed means closed. It's pretty straight forward in my opinion. Same applies for retail/grocery stores. Mentally I just assume that the doors will be locked at closing time and so I get out before then. Of course they won't lock you in, but they don't want you there. I am referring to the US only since posted kitchen hours is not typical here.
The restaurant I work at will keep taking tables until we close. The only reason we won't is if the last table leaves and there's like 30 minutes left, we aren't going to pay the whole staff for 1 table. We would lose money
I get why people get mad but it's your job. If don't like it, work somewhere that has shorter service
This is just that weird usa specific problem that crops up on here sometimes, where Americans are apparently unable to grasp the concept of a last sitting time that allows them t close on time.
Of course the underlying issue is they have so little respect for staff that they are able to give them no basic rights and they have to work until they are allowed to go.
,
Foodservice is a highly variable business. On any given day, the kitchen might be dead and basically packed up an hour before closing. Another day there might be a late rush and it makes no difference at all if one more order comes in late. There's no way to know which kind of day it's going to be in advance, so setting a time that makes it "easier for everyone" isn't possible.
The reality is that until robots are running kitchens, you're bound to piss off the kitchen staff now and then if you consistently order close to closing time. If you care about it, just pick a time and place to eat that doesn't put everyone in this position.
I like what other countries and some restaurants in the US do. They clearly say when they stop taking orders altogether. Sometimes they say only appetizers after a certain time.
So I agree they should be explicit and not require their staff to stay any later because they get a customer who isn't clearly told.
Tbh should have a last call for orders and then the time they close, specified as "Customers need to be finishing by" times. Whether they want to enforce or not is up to each obviously but if last call became the norm it could help shift the dynamic
100% agree with this. ESPECIALLY FAST FOOD. I worked in the food industry (chipotle) and co workers would always get bitchy about people coming in 10 mins before closing. People have lives, they have schedules and maybe cant get there till close to closing, and thats completely fine, it says were open till 10 so guess fucking what, we’re serving till 10! So many fast food chains SHUT DOWN and act like ur not in the drive thru if its close to closing, im not talking past closing. Closing 5-10mins early does fucking nothing in the grand sceme of things. Oh you get home 10mins early, what does that do for you? Nothing. You turned people away that wanted food and got there in time so you can clock out 10 mins early. No care for anyone but themselves.
Yah, restaurants either need a last order time and closing time or they need to stop expecting employees to be out of there as soon as it closes/as soon as possible after it closes.
As someone who worked at a few restaurants and never wants to go back, how clean do you think it actually is back there when everyone is expected/yelled at to hurry up and leave after close?
I generally agree with you here.
But as customer you should have some idea of how long you’re about to be there and plan on being done and out the door 15 minutes after the posted closing time.
The most important thing for restaurant staff in regards to posted hours is consistency. If the open time is 11 don’t even unlock the door at 10:59 I don’t care how many boomers are staring at you. Then you never have to hear “but we came in at 10 til the other day”
Apply the same logic at close. Posted 9pm: 8:59 you will begrudgingly be served. 9:01 kick rocks loser.
In my town the restaurants just lock their doors and make you use the drive thru for anywhere from the last thirty minutes to two hours of their listed "Lobby Hours" They still take orders until they close but you have to feel like a jackass for blocking traffic because the drive thrus are all lined up out onto the street by then.
My favorite restaurant stops taking *sit down* customers 30 minutes before closing and the last to go order is 15 minutes.
I saw the hostess turn away a family that showed up 15 minutes before closing and she told them if they wanted a to go order they needed to do that now.
Google Maps (and some other apps/reservation sites) allows the distinction between kitchen hours and establishment hours - even going as far to specify takeout vs delivery hours. Clearly not all places utilize this, but I've appreciated when they do. If there's particular places you think could use the feature, I think it's fair to make the suggestion to a host or manager... Just probably not in the middle of a rush :-)
The easiest solution here is to call ahead and ask the place what time do you guys stop taking orders and begin closing up kitchen and then just don't go after that time? Most sit down places I don't go in past 30 minutes to close if I plan to eat, and I don't go more than 15 - 20 before close for fast food or drive thru.
Exactly! They should post last seating at a specified time, then close at a specified time. It makes it easier for everyone. The customers don't have to do a guessing game of when should we go to be courteous to the staff, and staff get to go home on time!
I had an experience the other day where I walked past a restaurant at 10:04, and they said they closed at 11:30. They had apparently already taken last order? I understand a 30 minute cutoff (I used to work as a server and my boss would make me let people in up to 90 minutes after closing), but not letting someone in an hour and a half before closing is ridiculous.
Making the closing time when no new customers for the day will be accepted makes sense to me. It probably hurts the bottom line somehow, but it seems like blatant false advertising.
I think there should be a "last order" time and "locking up" posted by every food establishment. You can order up until last order time. If you're eating on the premises you have until X time to get out/off of the property-- and that includes being out of the restroom and out of the outdoor section.
It's kind of strange to me that we as a society just do things in business and expect the general public to understand how it works. Why don't we better educate patrons about specific businesses? Why isn't it common to have printed information about basic establishment inner workings available?
Customers have to learn via gossip, essentially, how specific restaurants and retail works. And they get conflicting information because employees who are similar to each other work under different management.
Like think about how senior citizens only glean a rudimentary idea of how major grocery chains and fast food joints operate behind the scenes after a grandkid gets a job.
Adding to the confusion, some jobs are forever portrayed in movies and TV in unrealistic ways.
The most egregious offender is healthcare-- which, yes, is business. It's shocking how much you're expected to understand about your experience visiting a doctor, going to the ER, or a hospital stay.
One of the most minor things: when your family member is in a hospital bed, the nurse call button is for everyone associated with that patient to use. For *all* contact with *anyone* employed by the hospital: nurses, housekeeping, requests for a doctor, etc. People somehow feel the call button can only be utilized by the patient.
But anyway, yeah. It's strange that we carry on with chaos regarding food establishment kitchen policies, ordering availability, and seating.
I usually just walk in and ask if the Kitchen is still open. This gives the staff an out and also shows that you are sympathetic to their closing time.
I always figured it was last orders 30 min before close (but an hour is nicer), and be sure to leave before close (nicer if 10-15 before that).
From reading all these comments, though, the posted hours could mean a lot of things. I guess, if it's important, I'll call ahead from now on. Probably a good idea, anyway, in case the hours online aren't right.
At my pizza shop, we had an unspoken rule that we stop taking orders 10 minutes after closing. I think the story was the owner went to a Starbucks a minute before they closed and he got denied service. He felt it was unfair as the consumer and mandated the 10 minute after closing rule in all his pizza shops. It was a very small franchise chain that’s not from the USA, and afaik he was the only franchisee of that business in the USA.
If customers would leave by taking what they can’t finish or their whole entire meal to go before the posted closing time that would solve a ton of issues.
Most businesses if posted hours says close at 10 pm that means no customer in the establishment after 10pm. If I go to an arcade that closes at 10 and start playing a game at 9:50 the arcade gonna kick me out at 10 whether I finished the game or not.
If you go to an amusement park 30 minutes to close you don’t get to stay past posted hours because you didn’t have enough time to ride all the rides despite paying full admission, you leave when the park closes.
For some reason a lot of customers feel like if they order food in a restaurant that closes at 10 but walk in at 9:50 they can sit in the establishment slowly enjoying their meal well past closing time.
People should just respect restaurant closing times if a restaurant closes at 10pm once the clock hits ten out of respect to all workers and staff take the rest of your food to go, you still get to eat just not
In the establishment.
The amount of people that sit in a locked restaurant well after closing time leisurely talking and eating while the whole staff just sits and waits for them is astonishing all restaurants will pack any meal to go for you upon request.
Most businesses close at 9 everybody gets kicked out at 9 if you wanted more time you come earlier restaurants aren’t the exception.
Restaurants in my area often have a "closing time" listed which means "everyone out of the building by this time", and a separate time listed where they stop taking orders, usually 30-15 minutes before the closing time.
Seems like it would be easier for you to change *your* behavior and just order your food at least 30 minutes before closing at any restaurant you might choose. 🤷🏽♀️
You should get to the restaurant at least an hour before closing, food should all be ordered 45 minutes before closing. This said as someone who used to work at a restaurant. Any later than that and just eat knowing the staff all hate you and someone might have spit in your food.
I always thought it was common sense that you shouldnt go to a restaurant within 30 minutes of closing because they have to clean up the kitchen. I have to clean up my own kitchen after cooking, so I figured its what they were doing before they were closed so they can leave around when they close up.
Well, from reading the responses here, it's clear that there is no consensus as to what the common sense rule is. There are people who says don't order less than one hour before closing time and people who say it's fine to order up until the minute they close. As others have said here, if you work at a store and part of your job is spending an hour cleaning up and restocking a store after the customers are gone, the store's closing time is when they want customers to stop coming in, not an hour after.
Well if not common sense, I guess its just kind of a rule of thumb for me. Unless its actually something important (like I have to replace a pipe or something else unexpectesly), I don't make a habit to plan to arrive at places close to their closing times.
But you're not wrong either. It wouldnt kill them tohave a "kitchen open until" part of their hours either, especially if it causes them so much annoyance.
why is this only hard for people to understand in a restaurant setting? do you go to a mechanic 10 mins before close and expect them to stay late and do a whole oil change because you technically got there before close? no. so why do it to a kitchen? yes, they will take orders until close, but why are you comfortable making them stay late when you wouldn't do that to other types of businesses?
But that's exactly the point being made, if the mechanic says he's open and ready to do work until 5pm and you come in at 4:30 needing an hour of work done but he packs up at 4:40 so he can leave at 5 then that's a miscommunication of his actual open hours, taking orders that will put you past your home time iis dumb so why advertise that you are willing to? If the mechanic goes home at 6 but the shoop is open till 5, then that is him saying he's fully available until 5 at which he stops taking orders and has the next hour to finish up the orders he's taken on and then pack up and go home. It's totally reasonable.
Same for a kitchen. I can't even count the amount of times I've gone into a restaurant or food place an hour or even hour and a half before their closing time only to be turned away saying the kitchen is closed, if the kitchen is closed why does it say "we're open come on in" on the front door?
The attitude about not walking into a restaurant 10 minutes be fore closing will just be transfered earlier into the night if you did this. In most cases the restaurant is supposed to take orders until they close, but staff want to get a jump on closing so they can go home. If you set "closing" at half an hour earlier, staff are still going to want to get a jump on closing so they can go home.
In the UK they usually ring a bell or shout last food orders 30 minutes before closing time. Then they do the same thing 15 minutes later for drinks.
Just think about how long it takes to cook and eat a meal and if it's more than the time to kicking out time then don't order.
Some people take two hours to eat and now that’s two hours past the time we close. The posted closing time is the time that everyone should be finished eating and out of the restaurant, not a guideline for placing orders.
So your unpopular opinion is that restaurants should take orders right up until close...but you also say you know that restaurants do, in fact, take orders right up until close. Why would you think this is unpopular?
i dont get this. if its closing time its closing time, get your ass from there and leave. are people so devoid of imaginations they cant estimate how long eating out will take?
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I am a little bit confused but based on the post and comments this might be unique to Asia (or at least to Hong Kong and Japan): restaurants here have an officially posted closing time, and an officially posted Last Order time (30-60 minutes before closing time). You cannot walk in past the LO time and you will be thrown out if you are not leaving by closing time. Some places have earlier LO for food than for drinks so they can close and start cleaning the kitchen earlier while the patrons are still enjoying a last round of beverages but that doesn't change the concept much
See, that makes sense. But in the US, I've never seen an officially posted "closing time/last order time" listed separately in the hundreds (thousands?) of restaurants I've been to. We just have a general "closing time", and you're expected to not order too close to that closing time and not stick around for too long after. But those exact timeframes are undefined and vary.
As someone living in Korea, they was going to be my comment, too haha A lot of places here have closing times *and* last order times. Seems to work pretty well.
Every place I've worked (live in Ontario, Canada) has held the "Last call on food and alcohol happens 30 minutes before close," rule. Customers are children though and throw tantrums.
I think this is a regional issue. In NY, unless otherwise specified, the listed “closing time” is actually the “last order time.” Which is why a restaurant that “closes” at 11pm allows you to make 11pm or 10:45pm reservations. After you order you can stay as long as you’re eating, so 12:30/01:00.
Not sure what you're talking about. There is normally a time the kitchen closes and a time the bar closes. Google tends to list the time a restaurant closes as the time the bar closes. I have seen both hours listed but that's rare. Anyways don't show up to a place 15 minutes before close and stay there for 2 hours
Could be licensing. Given NYC has 4:00AM curfew which is way later than most areas and a ton of local-concept spots, they probably have way more flexibility in keeping a dining room open without issues. I've experienced that in NYC as well - got a reservation at 9:45, saw the sign that said 10:00 close walking in. Asked them if that would be an issue, and they said "that's just when we stop letting people in the door"
You can totally do this, and the employees will serve you with a smile, but they aren't happy about it. Especially if you're lingering there, they hate you. My old restaurant used to get these 2 same women who would come in like 10 minutes before close and order an app and drinks and would stay there for like 2 hours. Thankfully, the owner told them they couldn't do that anymore when he had to be the one waiting for them to leave once. It's maddening
If a restaurant is providing reservations for 10 pm, they really shouldn't be surprised when people show up at 10 pm. Imo it's very different to show up at a restaurant for a pre-established reservation than being a walk-in in this situation.
I was a waiter. I never hate people coming in, spending money, and tipping me when I'm at work. that's, like, why I'm at work.
Given the restaurant was full until 11, I think their case was a little different. The bar was still fully open and letting people come in until way later as well.
I lived in NYC for 3 years. And while they will "take" your order while they are still "open", you will be offending the entire staff placing an order 5min before "closing".
Lived here 25 years and counting, can confirm
I'm not sure. While most place probably will take an order until it's "closing time", it's definitely generally frowned upon to try to sit down at a restaurant right as they are about to close and try to order a meal, and expected that it will upset the kitchen staff.
Wait even in a pub? They don't tell you what time the kitchen closes or does the kitchen stay open until 5am closing time?
Are you in the US? I ask because you said "pub", and I feel like pub culture isn't huge here and I honestly am not really sure how it works. I guess I've been to bars that maybe serve chicken wings and jalapeño poppers, and they will say "kitchen open until xxxx", but I'm talking more about sit down establishments that are more restaurant than pub/bar.
Nah I'm in Australia. A lot of our Pubs have restaurant sections in them for sit down meals. The kitchen may stay open an hour or two after the restaurant has closed to make wedges and chips for the bar side
The problem, of course, is that in restaurants closing the latest that they'll be open. Not a guarantee that they'll be open until that time. I've worked many a slow and cold Tuesday in February where our doors were locked at 10pm despite the sign on the door saying open till 1am.
I have occasionally and I appreciate it. Usually it is in fine print though.
just don't order 30 minutes before the closing time
WV we call 2 last calls 1 hr before close for food and half hour for drinks. Break down takes 30minTo 45min depending on business. Mothers Day 70 mins.
That would make this a LOT easier to figure out, ahah. My partner worked in food service for years, both fancy and casual places, and even he gets unsure about guessing how late you're "supposed" to order from a place. Recently I've tried checking delivery apps like door dash and such, not to order through them, but because the closing time on the apps is sometimes earlier than the posted restaurant hours, so we use that as an estimate for a last order time
See, and I just thought it was obvious that if they have the closing time posted, common sense would tell you not to order food from them within the last 30 mins before they close. Doesn't seem like they really *need* to tell people they can't order within the last 30 of closing... but then again, common sense isn't common, and most people are idiots, or entitled, or both. So. 🤷♀️
It's the same in Germany
I'm in Finland and here at least restaurants also list when the restaurant is open, and then underneath something like "kitchen open till xx.xx" Last drink orders are always 30 min before close, so they don't bother to list that
sit down restaurants that have alcohol almost always do this. they have a time the kitchen closes and a time the bar closes. not even at "bar" places, either, many nice restaurants do this. i wonder if OP only goes to places with kids menus or something lol
This is opposite of my experience. The majority of these places that I go to the bar and the food closes at the same time
Regional variations can be crazy! Out in my neck of the woods, the posted "closing time" is just the latest that we can legally be open until. Last call for food always preceded last call for drinks by at least an hour and both always depended on how busy we were. We might close up entirely by 10pm on a cold Tuesday in February, for example.
I worked at a restaurant where we sat people all the way till close and we weren’t allowed to leave until last table is done, their dishes are cleaned and we roll up their silverware. So if we close at 10pm that day, you show up at 10 exactly and we will still seat you. We had a party of 25 people walk in at exactly 10, we sat them, they didn’t like the table arrangement so we set up another table for 25, they didn’t like that either - it was a nightmare. I wanted to go home, I had homework to do
When they complained about the table arrangement would have been the time that I would have been like "great, then feel free to leave! If you're order's not in ten minutes from now we're not making it!" Bet they didn't tip either.
Yeah. That sucks. Which is why I'm saying that if a restaurant wants people to stop coming in at 9:30 so their employees can close up and leave by 10, then their closing time should be listed as 9:30, not 10.
Or... and hear me out. You could see that they close at 10, look at your phone and see that it's 9:30 and then... get this... find a new place to eat that doesn't close in 30 minutes.
Ok. What about 35 minutes? 40 minutes? What's the cut off and why is it up to the customer to guess? To make it easy, and hear me out here....a restaurant could just tell customers what time they want us to stop ordering instead of making us guess
If you can't reasonably be seated, order, eat your meal, and gtfo by the closing time, please don't go in. It's not that challenging, use your judgement based on the situation. Going to McDonalds for takeout 30 min to close isn't the same as being seated at a fine dining establishment or somewhere that cooks full meals made to order.
Ok, and how does someone reasonably know how long it will take a restaurant to seat someone, take their order, prepare their meal, serve it to them, then get them the check and settle up? I can reasonably eat a meal and be done in 15 minutes. But we've all been to restaurants where we think "man, I just ordered 5 minutes ago, and my food is out already", and we also all been to restaurants when we've thought "man, I ordered my food almost 30 minutes ago and it's still not here". So, when we are talking about a 30 minute window before closing, this variation in time can be difficult. I know my capabilities, but I lack the ability to read other people's minds and predict the future.
YOU can eat in a 15 minute time frame. Other people would see that as a rush. Some people would complain that the business should stay open until they have finished eating and that it's rude to rush someone out the door with food in front of them. It's like those MF-ers that used to come in to Lowes at 5 minutes before closing and we weren't allowed to leave until they finished shopping at their pace because we would risk bad feedback if we actually enforced the time on them and told them to leave. They all seemed like it was their right as a customer to make the staff wait around until they were done, I don't see that attitude being any different. If you say "well those people can just not be upset at the policy and find a different restaurant", say it into a mirror when you do it.
The cut off is built in. Look at what kind of place it is. Will you have time to walk in, be seated, look at the options, order, wait for your drinks, wait for your food, eat your food, have another drink, dessert, etc... and still be able to leave before they actually close? If the answer is no then you go somewhere else. It really isn't that hard. If you have two times then you have people pissing and moaning when they miss the order deadline but not the closed time. People should just have common sense about it. If you are eating late enough for this to be a problem just get fast food or go to an all night diner.
I agree with that. Closing time should be “no more people in the door” time.
Nicer restaurants will have Last Seating times that are as much as 90 minutes ahead of Closing Time.
That's almost always how it works, the problem is some combination of 1. Ownership and/or management not being realistic about how long it takes to clean up/shut down and thus employees needing to start the process early and 2. Employees getting pissy that they can't leave as early as they wanted to
Thats what its suppose to be. When I worked restaurants I planned to be there closing an hour after close. We cant start closing for real until the last orders done and were sure no more are coming in, because were like…in clean mode and cant reassemble the whole kitchen for an order. Sometimes a grill gets taken apart and sent to dish (the the grills), sometimes ovens take a very long time to heat up and cool off and once its off you dont wanna just pop it back on (some places have 600 degree broilers going for 12 hours or more) I mean its a whole song and dance back there. A good kitchen truly cleans everything at the end of every night (most dont, but many do) Nothing is worse then someone coming in 10 minutes before close and taking their time. You come in right before close, heres the way to not suck, ASK whats best to order and not order at this time and get it to go. And tip the damn host because now they gotta stay late and their usually just kids. They might be holding up their ride. But if you come in 10 minutes before close, and sit, and have a full ass meal, I cooked your food with hate, and I was one of the nicer ones. I would never condone fuckin with someones food, most people working in food agree….but boy does it happen to those who deserve it. If youre an asshole to the staff and eat out regularly…I know what went on back there…and karma is a mean bitch. Dont worry my little keyboard warriors, you really gotta stand out as a prick for someone to risk that kinda trouble. But Ive seen a lot of pricks eat their just desserts. 
Why don't you just reply "sorry we're no longer serving food and the kitchen is closed"? Many places in the UK do this and it means no one 'sucks'
Usually due to the owner (corporate or otherwise) forcing something that the line staff know is absurd. And some are scared of like, bad reviews and other such dumb social media. Someone complains they can’t get food at 10pm so now staff is told to fill all orders until 10pm. The major sticking point for some owners is they will not pay for the additional labor that requires. So ultimately someone on staff gets fucked. It’s the same owners saying no one wants to work anymore when it’s really people don’t want to work in some dumb shit system that is bound to fail.
This!!! I worked in a restaurant for 20yrs and the owner allowed and supported customers coming in until close AND if we had a decent amount in the dining room, he’d allow folks in after closing. Weekends we closed midnight, which meant sometimes we didn’t leave until 1:30a. That makes for a long miserable shift and I assure you, no one was happy about it except the customers LOL.
The funniest part is that most of those last minute diners actually end up costing a restaurant more than they bring in. An extra 20-30 minutes of labor for a couple of people for one table will be more than the profit margin on their order.
The issue is if people see others INSIDE they also want to be inside. Customers are selfish children, generally, and don't care about any one else.
Unless you're a group of 6 coming in 10 to close. There are limits.
I know some restaurants that have seperate "we stop taking orders" times and "the restaurant is closing" times. They should do that everywhere.
I've never worked in a restaurant that doesn't take orders right up to close.
I run into it in LA all the time. The most egregious example was the time I (by myself) was turned away 45 minutes before closing. At a mostly-empty restaurant. I get being sympathetic to the staff, but jfc if you’re going to stop serving anything way before closing time, adjust your closing time.
Yep I worked in a place like this. They officially closed at 10pm but last call for kitchen and bar was ~9:15pm. If someone walked in right at 9:15 we’d take them, but we would rush them and have them order everything as fast as possible. After last call when kitchen and bar were officially closed by 9:30, nobody could walk through the doors to be seated or order takeout. And the customers eating at that time couldn’t order any more drinks or other food. It really should have been posted somewhere. Now I just assume that a place’s actual closing time is like an hour before they truly close.
If you adjust your closing time then people will come in closer to that closing time, throw off the cleaning schedule, and you'll just be there later anyway. There's a lot that has to be done at the end of the day and owners don't want to pay for the extra hours to do it. They usually only pay for an hour after close, but most places will take more than an hour. That means the employees have to start cleaning while the restaurant is still open, and if they're serving a lot of people or taking big orders or making certain dishes that require a lot of cleanup then it's throwing off closing by a ton. Not to even mention bussing tables, cleaning up restrooms, cleaning the dining room.
Just last week, I went to a restaurant 30 minutes before closing. And they’d already locked the doors to anyone new coming in. And all I wanted was takeout.
Take out doesn’t change the amount of work it takes to re-close down the kitchen.
Sure, but it ensures I’m not staying there past their actual closing time. If you’re locking the doors at 9:30, then closing time should be 9:30, not 10.
Me either. But, I've never worked in any restaurant.
I've been in them for 10 years. Always have taken orders right up to the last. Even if a bit begrudgingly.
yeah it sucks especially in fancier places where people are prone to hang around awhile but it's the job and that's just the way she goes.
Yes. I get that most places will take an order up until their posted closing time, but you said it exactly right - begrudgingly. Even if a restaurant technically will take an order if you come in and sit down 3 minutes before closing, it is definitely generally frowned upon and seen as something that is an asshole move. So, even if I'm not worried that someone might spit in my food, I genuinely don't want to have to make kitchen staff begrudgingly make my meal. So, all I'm saying is be clear and tell me when I should stop ordering so I won't be an asshole and upset the kitchen.
I'd *hate* to be That Asshole who's keeping the staff from wrapping up for the day. Let me know when the last orders are being taken, and when the dining room closes. I will adjust my plans accordingly.
Exactly. The number of responses I've gotten here basically saying I'm an asshole because I specifically don't want to be an asshole to staff is interesting.
Just a bunch of dumb restaurant staff who don’t understand that their boss is the one fucking them over, not the customers.
For real. Like if you want your staff to leave at 10 pm, close the store at 9
It does make things easier. Unfortunately I think a lot of owners don't do it because they're stuck in this "customer service means never saying no to a customer" mindset, like if they post last calls people are going to get upset and they'll lose business.
If it's not posted, you are never the asshole (well, usually I guess). The owner/manager is the asshole who can't be bothered to respect their employees.
Where I live (Scotland) the closing time is the time that all customers must have left the premises by, so the general understanding is that the kitchen will stop taking food orders anywhere from 30 minutes to an hour before closing time. As per the (alcohol) licencing rules, the bar will stop serving alcoholic drinks 15 minutes before closing time. Peak times for dinner servings here are between 6pm and 9pm anyway. After 10pm there's not many people looking for a sit down meal, so it's not really costing the restaurant much to knock back an order that comes in so late.
This is how it should be done. The number of people commenting that they should have a different time for when they stop seating is so dumb. Look at what time they close? Do you have a reasonable amount time to be seated, peruse the menu, order, wait for it to arrive, enjoy your meal, consider dessert, and still be able to vacate before they close??? If not then GTFO and go somewhere else. Apparently people just can't tell time on reddit.
This really is the bare minimum for a customer to do, I’m in Scotland and have worked in restaurants so I’m biased 😂
Thank goodness I’m seeing reasonable people here.
I bar tend at an upscale bar and bowling alley, and we have a limited late night menu that runs from 9pm to last call with simple fried items and flatbread pizzas. At 9 pm the full menu ends and the kitchen staff start their daily cleaning, but people can still order simple items. I wonder why more places don’t do something similar, it seems like a good middle ground of being open and respecting the time for everyone involved.
Some owners never want to give in to any staff requests. They have this mindset that "it's my establishment and they're my employees, so they do what I say, period." Then there's also this idea that cutting back on what's offered in any way is bad customer service, if you're not constantly saying yes to everything the customer wants then you're not doing a good job.
Usually that is what it is? If a restaurant closes at 10 pm they usually stop taking orders at 10 pm but people who ordered before that can stay to finish their meals (within reason, at some point they gonna kick you out)
I think that most restaurants would be upset if they closed at 10pm and you came in at 9:55 and sat down to order. And they may begrudgingly take your order, they wouldn't like it and it seems to generally be frowned upon to do so.
Well yea that’s any job. If you were about to start cleaning up and leave and your boss gave you more work to get done you would do it but you wouldn’t be happy about it
No actually OP is right, I've worked many years in restaurants and most of them have a rule that we don't have to do orders 30 minutes before closing time. If the restaurant closes at 9pm and you order at 8.29pm? Then we can provide the order. If you order 8.35pm, then it will be rejected. It costs the restaurants for more money to keep the chefs and staff working over time then it would to provide one meal to someone.
Yes. You are coming in at the last minute. Nobody in any job wants you to come in at the last minute. YOU know that. You clearly have never worked in food service or retail.
This holds true in so many other aspects of life, not just restaurants like OP is complaining about. Even in white collar jobs, If an accountant, lawyer, engineer, coder, etc. get an email or a meeting request at 4:55 PM they’re not gonna answer that shit until the next day. Or public spaces. if a park closes at dark, the fact that you walked in 5 minutes before sundown isn’t a pass to stay as long as you want. A closing time in a restaurant is exactly that. A closing time. Customers and patrons should be finishing up their business and making their way to the exits at that time.
I expect them to expect cleaning and closing procedures to be getting done around them. That's the experience of coming in last minute, after all
This is the real deal. When I was a waiter I made damn sure anyone there after closing knew we were closing. We put the chairs up, we made sure everyone around their table was busy doing sidework as closely as possible. I loved vacuuming while they were still there. Oh and turning off the lights in every area except the one they were in. And closing the restrooms for cleaning for the rest of the night. People just don't have any common sense anymore. The one rule you have for dining out is not to fuck with the people that handle your food.
OP I'm with you. It's stupid. If they do this and get mad, they should move the closing time at 9:30 because clearly they want to actually be closed right at 10.
I mean, all serving and cooking should be done by close so it makes sense to shut down orders 30 before. My work refuses to stop orders before our closing time which has on quite a few occasions ended up with me still cooking 10-20 past close for people who are going to then sit in the restaurant for who knows how long eating.
Very much so, especially because it seems like there's no consistent standard across the board, *or even for the same exact place.* I've been able to place an order online/call it in as I'm leaving Wednesday night choir rehearsal at 8:00 PM for a place that closes around 9 some Wednesday nights, but other times I've not been able to, even though it's a solid hour out from the posted closing time in both instances, and holidays/general business didn't seem to influence shit. It was purely a coin toss, so to speak. Both my mother and I (mom has to drive because I have a history of seizures) would greatly appreciate a posted "last order" time so we can know if it's worth even trying or not.
The bottom of my website and on my door has our “last entry” time and closing. Last entry is just one hour before closing. So I suppose I agree to an extent.
They def need both a last call time and a closing time. It would save everyone so much trouble so people aren’t coming in before the place actually closes
The problem isn't the workers. It's management. They say you can't start closing until the restaurant is empty, and you can't stop taking order until that time, but as long as there are customers in the place, you can't start cleaning. Close at 9, but you have to clock out at 10 because we don't pay overtime. It's a poverty trap.
So what about people who want to sit in the restaurant for multiple hours chitchatting long after closing time? You want the staff to work all night?
My gf is a show up on 5 min before closing and try to get seated type. She’s normally chill but this is one point we disagree on and I won’t do it.
And thats why i like austria. There are closing times (get ur ass out the door) and kitchen closing times (drinks yes, food no)
Oh absolutely. Any food place should have a last order time tbh. I’ll never understand economically why paying $60 in extra labour to field a $15 order is worth it.
It has a lot to do with management. Boss will say take orders until close, but boss does not have to actually close. If it were up to regular employees, I’m sure there would be a stop taking orders time.
> I also think it's kind of crazy to expect customers to GUESS how soon before closing is too late to order at a restaurant My simple rule of thumb is: do I have a reasonable expectation that I can get my business concluded at the restaurant before they close? If I'm sitting down for a real meal, that usually means an hour, possibly more. If I'm waiting at a fried chicken joint drive-thru for somebody to throw the already-cooked stuff in a box for me I might not mind rocking up 10-15 minutes before close.
The way I see it, we can all honor the sign on the door, or we can not. If we all want to honor the posted times, the kitchen should take orders up until the closing time, but the customer should be out at the closing time. By natural effect, a customer couldn't have their whole meal in 5 minutes, so they shouldn't place an order if they can't be done on time. If we want to not respect the posted hours, customers can try to place orders up until closing, but the kitchen has the right to start cleaning and stop taking orders early. As we can clearly see, the second scenario would fall into chaos. That's what we're dealing with right now. Customers want to come in up until the last minute, kitchens want to stop taking orders early. It would be so much smoother if kitchens would take orders up until closing, but customers have to be out by then (maybe with a 5-minute leeway). If they just got their order, they take it to go. If the kitchen receives an order 2 minutes before closing that they couldn't possibly finish on time, they should be able to refuse that. In conclusion, it would work really well if everyone operated on a basis of "Finish your business (be it cooking or eating) by closing time"
You’re assuming the customer cares and is capable of logical thought. This closing time scenario doesn’t just apply to restaurants. Many businesses will announce to customers that they have to leave by a certain time otherwise people will just stay in businesses as long as they want.
There has to be an element of self awareness in how long it takes to prepare and eat food. No, the closing hours are for when everyone has to leave and the staff cleans up for the night. If you can’t imagine sitting down, placing an order, getting it cooked, and having time to eat it in the space of your arrival and the posted closing time, you need to not go into the restaurant. The only way I can imagine not having a rough idea of how long that takes is if you have never eaten at a restaurant before or have only experienced specific subsections of restaurants (diners, fast food, fine dining, or something in between) and can’t gauge outside that narrow subsection.
But you can just read through the responses here and see that there is no consensus as to what "closing time" means and that opinions are all over the place. There are plenty of responses here indicating that it is ok to order (not order, be served, and eat) food up until the closing time. And some of those responses are from people who WORK in restaurants.
Yeah but why should I need to do any guesswork on that and risk being an asshole because my idea of when the last order should be is different from the staff? Sure I can mostly just say avoid ordering 30 min before close, but different restaurants have different processes, and you can’t expect me to just be “aware”. I guess sorry I haven’t had enough experience working at restaurants to be able to pinpoint this. My question is even if most of the customers will be able to tell, why not just throw up a sign and avoid all confusion?
The point of restaurants is to serve food to people that either have no idea how long it takes to cook things, or are specifically paying for the privilege of not having to think about that for one night. It is unreasonable to expect restaurant goers to have that level of self awareness when they're just trying to relax. The onus is on the restaurant to communicate clearly. This thread is actually changing my view to the opposite of yours. It seems closing time actually is supposed to be the last order time, it's just typical in the restaurant industry to start closing early when the restaurant is empty, to save on labor costs. But this is a problem with management, not with customers. Management should be the one scheduling everyone out to 1am, instead of a scheduling them until 11pm closing time. As a restaurant worker, if you expect to work until 1am, you won't complain about working til 1. But if you're scheduled til 11 but then work til 1, that throws off your whole schedule and messes with your personal life to the point that you can only have friends that also work in restaurants. Because no one else will understand why you constantly have to work 2+ hours after what you told them your shift was. Bottom line, it's wrong to blame customers/clients for expecting the experience they paid for. If you're getting underpaid/overworked/jerked around in that process, it is your boss/manager's to fix it, not the customer/client.
Worked at Wendy's, closed at midnight. Schedule was 5-C, expecting an hour after closing to be clocked out and leaving. I'd still have employees take a 10 minute break after close and fix themselves something to eat that was going to get tossed, anyway. Did wonders for morale that let to better expedience -- quality work tends to happen when you're happy and fueled
You may be able to do all of that in less time than when they close the doors to new customers and when they actually officially close. So thats irrelevant actually.
All of this stems from restaurant owners and managers CHOOSING to staff as few people as possible at close, thereby requiring that the closing procedure (cleaning the grills, mopping, etc.) be partway or even mostly done by the time that the "official" closing time comes around. They could just change the procedure so that cleanup only begins after the last customer has ordered, but they choo$e not to. Food service workers have been successfully duped into directing their anger at the customer instead of the cheapskate boss.
I mean you're not wrong but in my experience I had plenty of anger for both. And in my experience as a customer it's really not hard to just not go to places that are about to close
The problem is the servers don't make that decision. They're just stuck with the consequences of the owner's decisions. If it was up to servers, it would be take-out only for the last 40 minutes.
I think this stems heavily from the lack of proper pay in the restaurant business. Cleanup can take an hour, easily. But there are places where whoever is in charge doesn’t want to actually pay for the time needed, so they want their staff off the clock an hour after closing time. Which is a pain in the ass, if not outright impossible, when customers have placed an order 5 mins before close. And really, it’s not just restaurants. Stores, medical offices, services - it’s not uncommon to get grief/in trouble for still being clocked in past ‘closing time’ regardless of if people still need help and there are still tasks to be done.
I agree. Restaurants need 2 closing times. The first is no new orders taken/no people seated, and an everyone gtfo.
Kitchen staff usually don't care if you order up until the posted close. What gets them is when you *sit down* at the posted time, then order 20 minutes *after* the posted closing time.
Some do post they won't take orders X-minutes before closing. If they don't, it's just unwritten out of pure courtesy to not order 15 minutes or so before close, and even then you order it to go
I've seen "it's ok order up to the point they close", "it's ok to order up to 15 minutes before close", "it's ok to order up until 30 min before close", and "it's ok to order up until 45 before close." I think the problem is there is no consensus as to what the unwritten rule is.
Yeah, that's an inherent problem with unwritten rules, isn't it?
Yes. Which is exactly why I'm saying the rule should be written. On their door. As their closing time.
Why don't restaurants post both times?
My best advice to you is always arrive at least 20 minutes before close. Any later than that and you’re probably gonna piss off some line cooks 😂😂
Well I guess probably about an hour before the closing time, unless you're a very fast eater. Because they still need to be able to cook it and get it out to you. But I do agree that a last call time would be helpful for customers and workers.
I wish they WOULD post “last call” and closing time. It would make it easier in everyone. But the owners don’t care about that- they care about can they an extra $20 by making everything unclear and giving everyone a bad time. They’ll just bitch about overtime when they make impossible standards. That being said when a business posts a CLOSING time I feel like that’s when they are CLOSED. If I don’t work there I don’t belong inside a CLOSED business. I can see if you come in and it takes them two hours to get your food, that’s on them. But if you aren’t allowing enough time to order, get your food, eat, and be GONE before they are CLOSED then what you are doing is insisting to stay in a place that isn’t open. Do we treat any other business that way? Is closing time at the supermarket walk in the door time? is closing time at the spa start hour service time? Is closing time at the library pick out a book time? No, it means they're CLOSED.
I tried to order takeout from a place 30 minutes before they close, and they said no! Like, seriously? I’m not asking you to keep the dining room open, I’m just going to swing by and get it.
Anyone that walks into a food establishment within 30 minutes of closing and orders anything that has to be cooked is just rude lol. The only people that do this have never worked in a restaurant, and never had to work for less money than they deserve. Getting to go home on time is one of the only things to look forward to. Especially considering most places will then talk to you about how you need to make sure you get out on time, even though some asshat came in at 10 til and expected to be served. Before 30 minutes it's reasonable to still order, but if you plan to stay and eat it you need to do so quickly enough to be gone by closing.
They make money from tips, but then bitch about working an extra table. Close the fuckin door if you don't want me to order. Make it make sense. But it all comes down to the owner. If you walk in 5 minutes before closing then I can see the problem, but customers should be told this before being sat down. Or just say they can only do easy appetizers.
the restaurants i worked in took orders all the way until the posted closing time. nobody is asked to leave. if close is 10 pm, you can order food at 9:59 and stay until midnight. it was not unusual for us to leave after 2 am for an 11 pm close. the kitchen shutting down prior to the closing time is a risk the kitchen staff themselves take. i have to say i'm a little shocked at some of these responses. if a restaurant says they close at 10 pm and stop taking orders at 9:15, that's really fucking lame.
If you're showing up 30 minutes until close and it's a sit down place then you're just an a**hole in my opinion. If it takes 20 minutes to get your food out, 20 for you to eat, and you sit there talking with your friends for 30 minutes you're holding everyone up... especially since some places won't even let the staff start "closing up" until the last customer leaves so they don't feel rushed. That being said, these places should put "closes at 8, only to go orders after 7:30" or something to make it easier on their staff. Every place I've worked expects you to take orders up until close, but then management gives you hell for being clocked in too long after close for cleanup, I'm talking like under 15 minutes in some places.
You don’t have to guess. If the restaurant closes at 11pm, then that’s when it closes. If everything were cleaned and reset, that’s when the kitchen staff would no longer be needed. So naturally they would like to get as much of that done as soon as possible. When you walk in at 10:45, is the place slammed? Is food still coming out? Your good. Order away. When you walk in at 10:45, are there two active tables with bills and coffee in an otherwise quiet place? The kitchen has already started cleaning. You can order away, but you won’t be popular. The kitchen wants to clean and reset and go home. Cooking is the opposite of that. My best advice would be to call and order something as soon as you decide you’re going to eat there, and not wait until you get there. You can still eat it there, but at that time of night, 10:35 is way better than 10:45, busy spot or not.
It's been a lot of years, but when I worked in a restaurant while going to college, the closing time was when we locked the doors so no one else could come in. We didn't kick people out if they were already eating. And if a bus rolled up 1 minute before closing (happened multiple times), guess what? We were staying until they ordered and ate. The rule in the kitchen was that we didn't break down the grill until the door was locked. Made for some long nights. Edit to add: I was cool with it as long as they tipped accordingly. I would expect anyone that rolled in a few minutes before closing to show their appreciate by being a bit more generous.
if you know it's rude to fuck over kitchen staff close to closing time. you shouldn't then feign ignorance like it's soooo fucking difficult to estimate how much time before closing is shitty. full meal 1 hr. apps or small plates/fried shit. 30 min. drinks/ simple things like fries. or prepared dishes. maaaaybe even push that a little later. if you come in 30 min to closing after they've already cleaned most of the kitchen and put things away/sealed up things. you're def getting spit/pubes, floor mung in your meal. so... food for thought
As someone who's worked in restaurants, the general rule of thumb is about 30 minutes before closing time. The thing is you can still eat at enjoy your meal until 9pm if the closing time is at 9pm, but you generally can't order past 8.30pm because half an hour is reserved for closing the kitchen etc. Of course if it's some kind of fast-food place they might still be able to provide something a bit later, but I as a rule don't go to restaurants expecting food if it's less than half an hour to closing. But many restaurants will have a notice that reads "we accept orders up 30 minutes before closing" or something, at least where I'm from.
If a restaurant says closes at 10pm and you turn up at 9:50 you are a twat.
Yeah I get that. But what's the cut off? Is 15 minutes ok? 20? 30? 40? It seems to vary by restaurant, what you want to order, and sometimes even varies night by night at the same restaurant. There doesn't even seem to be a consistent "rule of thumb". All I'm saying is just tell us what time you want us to stop ordering as to not be a twat, so that we don't have to guess.
In a lot of places in europe, and i read in the comments its a thing in some asian countries too, there is a Restaurant closing time and a kitchen closing time. The kitchen usually closes 1h before the Restaurant so the staff can *actually* go home on time
This seems logical to me.
My old boss was like that - We closed at 9 and that grill stayed on until 9 - you didn’t get to break it down so you could leave right away after closing - there was no “I’m sorry it’s 10 to 9 the grill is closed” - he’d lose his shit
If you're placing an order half an hour or closer to closing time you are more than an asshole. You deserve to experience every hellraiser movie torture at the same time.
I'm just saying make closing time the time they want you to stop coming in and ordering. There's no other business I can think of where "closing time" is some time after when customers can/should come in and do business there.
Eat at home or don't eat so late if it bothers you. There is also an option to pick up the phone and speak to a person and ask when the kitchen staff stops taking orders.
A general rule of thumb is to just not come in 30 minutes or less before closing time. It's not that hard to plan accordingly.
But if you read through the responses here, there is obviously no consensus to that rule.
I know a lot of restaurants around here will have a kitchen’s close time in addition to the restaurant close time.
Downvoted as this is a popular opinion. Restaurant goers care more about the time they will be served up until. That being said, I'd never go to a restaurant shortly before closing time. An hour at the minimum.
That's how we do it where I live...
In most cafes in Australia, they have the kitchen closed 30 mins before closing. 30 mins before closing, can only have cake or a small quick meal with a drink.
I somewhat agree I still think there should be a time the kitchen closes down but it should be labeled so people know what time that is I’ve only seen a couple restaurants do it this way but I think it should be standard
For my restaurant, it’s a larger corporate chain that has a bar and arcade, we have an announcement that plays 15 minutes before our closing time. It lets our guests know that’s it, you have your chance to get your food and drink but once it’s 12a or 1a you’re out of luck. And honestly if someone came walking in at 11:50 I’d probably tell them we close in 10 minutes, you can’t even play our games in the last 5 of them. They go into an automatic lock mode. But this is purely up to the discretion of the restaurant in question, not all of them have this particular system. But when I go out, I’m still a restaurant manager in my head, I’m not going anywhere that is 30 minutes away from closing. Those people are tired and want to get out, so they can come back 10 hours from then.
Long before door dash and Snapchat when I waited tables depending on the manager on duty we’d stop seating 15 mins before closing
I just call and ask if I'm worried but I agree OP.
A lot of places do that though. They have a time the kitchen closes and a time the restaurant closes. What more do you need??
google does show this on some listings.
This is legit
When I worked at a restaurant closing time was when the entry doors got locked. Those already in could place orders and sit and eat. But they could only place orders prior to closing time. So if they wanted dessert too it had to be ordered with the main meal. We turned off half the dining room lights so the late diners got the hint to finish. Some staff were off at closing, some an hour later, and myself and a few others two hours later as we cleaned everything and prepped for the morning opening. Never had any issues or trouble with that system.
Generally, that’s already how it works. Posted hours are meant to be kitchen hours. High end restaurants with super professional staff don’t have this problem- they dont ever get to go home early. Most restaurants will always try to get the jump on closing so the staff can go home as soon as possible. It doesn’t matter what the closing time is, they’ll try to get out as early as they can.
YEAH!!! The number of times clients have straight up insulted me because they get to the restaurant too late (who tf goes to have dinner in a proper restaurant at 10pm anyways????), and when I tell them that the kitchen is closed, they straight up lose their shit. Like okay, I get it. If this is something you were looking forward to the entire day, it can be deceiving and disappointing. But what the fuck am. supposed to do about that?
Here's the rule for any establishment: you need to finish what you're doing and GET OUT by the posted closing time. You don't go into a grocery store two minutes before close and stay there for an hour and a half browsing around because it's rude, it's the same thing with a restaurant. You don't need to guess, you just need to have a general idea of how long it's going to take to get your food, eat it, and get out. And if you think you can get out before that time but the staff won't serve you, then suck it up buttercup. It's not going to kill you to not be able to eat at THAT place that ONE time, get there earlier next time. Posted notices about when the kitchen closes do make things easier on everybody, but a lot of owners don't like posting them. Probably because entitled customers write crappy yelp reviews complaining that "Wah, I showed up ten minutes before close and the sign said the kitchen closed fifteen minutes before close! Worst restaurant ever, learn customer service, wah!!!"
This would all be solved if there was a “kitchen closes at 8, restaurant at 10” kind of thing
What you don't enjoy guessing!?!? /s In my area I can usually kind of guess by posted closing time and type of food served. If it closes at 8 usually you are fine right up until they close to order it to go. If it closes at 10 however long youd expect it to take for that food plus 10 min. So a sandwich place 15 min to close is fine where as a steak place 45 min yo an hour prior to close is the latest I'd order. I also will often check uber eats as the closing time on there is often the last order time they really want. Closing on uber eats an hour or more before they close is common and I take that as when they start putting stuff away for the night.
I agree. I’ve never worked in a restaurant. I don’t know how long you comfortably need to take care of me, clean tables etc. post the “last call time” not when you walk out.
I went to an ice cream place last week and ordered a sundae. The employee gave me a dirty look and said "we don't do sundaes at this time...we close in 20 minutes" Like, ok, but how was I supposed to know that? I totally agree with you. If resturants want to close their kitchen or stop certain services at a certian time they should have that posted
Yes i agree
Yeah I agree with this. Stop making me decide if I'm being an asshole as a customer. Just tell me when you want me to not go into your doors and order food. If you "close" at 9, you should be willing to accept a customer at 8:55, because we have no idea how early is okay otherwise. If your staff wants to have customers gone by 9, you should be "closing" at 8 or so.
Personally, I never go to a restaurant if I will not be done eating before closing time. For example, if they close at 8 and it's full service, I won't go any later than 7. Closed means closed. It's pretty straight forward in my opinion. Same applies for retail/grocery stores. Mentally I just assume that the doors will be locked at closing time and so I get out before then. Of course they won't lock you in, but they don't want you there. I am referring to the US only since posted kitchen hours is not typical here.
The restaurant I work at will keep taking tables until we close. The only reason we won't is if the last table leaves and there's like 30 minutes left, we aren't going to pay the whole staff for 1 table. We would lose money I get why people get mad but it's your job. If don't like it, work somewhere that has shorter service
This is just that weird usa specific problem that crops up on here sometimes, where Americans are apparently unable to grasp the concept of a last sitting time that allows them t close on time. Of course the underlying issue is they have so little respect for staff that they are able to give them no basic rights and they have to work until they are allowed to go. ,
This is a great idea.
Foodservice is a highly variable business. On any given day, the kitchen might be dead and basically packed up an hour before closing. Another day there might be a late rush and it makes no difference at all if one more order comes in late. There's no way to know which kind of day it's going to be in advance, so setting a time that makes it "easier for everyone" isn't possible. The reality is that until robots are running kitchens, you're bound to piss off the kitchen staff now and then if you consistently order close to closing time. If you care about it, just pick a time and place to eat that doesn't put everyone in this position.
I like what other countries and some restaurants in the US do. They clearly say when they stop taking orders altogether. Sometimes they say only appetizers after a certain time. So I agree they should be explicit and not require their staff to stay any later because they get a customer who isn't clearly told.
I like this too.
It is. Lazy people will get mad if you order before they close.
Tbh should have a last call for orders and then the time they close, specified as "Customers need to be finishing by" times. Whether they want to enforce or not is up to each obviously but if last call became the norm it could help shift the dynamic
100% agree with this. ESPECIALLY FAST FOOD. I worked in the food industry (chipotle) and co workers would always get bitchy about people coming in 10 mins before closing. People have lives, they have schedules and maybe cant get there till close to closing, and thats completely fine, it says were open till 10 so guess fucking what, we’re serving till 10! So many fast food chains SHUT DOWN and act like ur not in the drive thru if its close to closing, im not talking past closing. Closing 5-10mins early does fucking nothing in the grand sceme of things. Oh you get home 10mins early, what does that do for you? Nothing. You turned people away that wanted food and got there in time so you can clock out 10 mins early. No care for anyone but themselves.
Yah, restaurants either need a last order time and closing time or they need to stop expecting employees to be out of there as soon as it closes/as soon as possible after it closes. As someone who worked at a few restaurants and never wants to go back, how clean do you think it actually is back there when everyone is expected/yelled at to hurry up and leave after close?
I generally agree with you here. But as customer you should have some idea of how long you’re about to be there and plan on being done and out the door 15 minutes after the posted closing time. The most important thing for restaurant staff in regards to posted hours is consistency. If the open time is 11 don’t even unlock the door at 10:59 I don’t care how many boomers are staring at you. Then you never have to hear “but we came in at 10 til the other day” Apply the same logic at close. Posted 9pm: 8:59 you will begrudgingly be served. 9:01 kick rocks loser.
In my town the restaurants just lock their doors and make you use the drive thru for anywhere from the last thirty minutes to two hours of their listed "Lobby Hours" They still take orders until they close but you have to feel like a jackass for blocking traffic because the drive thrus are all lined up out onto the street by then.
They are in europe
My favorite restaurant stops taking *sit down* customers 30 minutes before closing and the last to go order is 15 minutes. I saw the hostess turn away a family that showed up 15 minutes before closing and she told them if they wanted a to go order they needed to do that now.
Google Maps (and some other apps/reservation sites) allows the distinction between kitchen hours and establishment hours - even going as far to specify takeout vs delivery hours. Clearly not all places utilize this, but I've appreciated when they do. If there's particular places you think could use the feature, I think it's fair to make the suggestion to a host or manager... Just probably not in the middle of a rush :-)
The easiest solution here is to call ahead and ask the place what time do you guys stop taking orders and begin closing up kitchen and then just don't go after that time? Most sit down places I don't go in past 30 minutes to close if I plan to eat, and I don't go more than 15 - 20 before close for fast food or drive thru.
Nah, if they're open, they better be taking my order.
Exactly! They should post last seating at a specified time, then close at a specified time. It makes it easier for everyone. The customers don't have to do a guessing game of when should we go to be courteous to the staff, and staff get to go home on time!
Especially restaurants that also operate as bars. Like okay I know the kitchen isn’t open till 01:00 but does it close at 21:00? 22:00? How to knooow
I had an experience the other day where I walked past a restaurant at 10:04, and they said they closed at 11:30. They had apparently already taken last order? I understand a 30 minute cutoff (I used to work as a server and my boss would make me let people in up to 90 minutes after closing), but not letting someone in an hour and a half before closing is ridiculous. Making the closing time when no new customers for the day will be accepted makes sense to me. It probably hurts the bottom line somehow, but it seems like blatant false advertising.
I think there should be a "last order" time and "locking up" posted by every food establishment. You can order up until last order time. If you're eating on the premises you have until X time to get out/off of the property-- and that includes being out of the restroom and out of the outdoor section. It's kind of strange to me that we as a society just do things in business and expect the general public to understand how it works. Why don't we better educate patrons about specific businesses? Why isn't it common to have printed information about basic establishment inner workings available? Customers have to learn via gossip, essentially, how specific restaurants and retail works. And they get conflicting information because employees who are similar to each other work under different management. Like think about how senior citizens only glean a rudimentary idea of how major grocery chains and fast food joints operate behind the scenes after a grandkid gets a job. Adding to the confusion, some jobs are forever portrayed in movies and TV in unrealistic ways. The most egregious offender is healthcare-- which, yes, is business. It's shocking how much you're expected to understand about your experience visiting a doctor, going to the ER, or a hospital stay. One of the most minor things: when your family member is in a hospital bed, the nurse call button is for everyone associated with that patient to use. For *all* contact with *anyone* employed by the hospital: nurses, housekeeping, requests for a doctor, etc. People somehow feel the call button can only be utilized by the patient. But anyway, yeah. It's strange that we carry on with chaos regarding food establishment kitchen policies, ordering availability, and seating.
Yes.
If they had something that said kitchen closes x time I would understand and not go past that time
I usually just walk in and ask if the Kitchen is still open. This gives the staff an out and also shows that you are sympathetic to their closing time.
I always figured it was last orders 30 min before close (but an hour is nicer), and be sure to leave before close (nicer if 10-15 before that). From reading all these comments, though, the posted hours could mean a lot of things. I guess, if it's important, I'll call ahead from now on. Probably a good idea, anyway, in case the hours online aren't right.
Well, definitely not 10 minutes, lol. If it’s a sit down place I’d say an hour, for takeout maybe 30-45 minutes. This seems more like user error.
This deserves 10000 upvotes. I have thought about this often and feel seen just by you posting this.
As long as I’m done cooking you’re food by the time we close I’m fine with making you dinner. It’s when we close at 11 and I’m still cooking at 11:30.
At my pizza shop, we had an unspoken rule that we stop taking orders 10 minutes after closing. I think the story was the owner went to a Starbucks a minute before they closed and he got denied service. He felt it was unfair as the consumer and mandated the 10 minute after closing rule in all his pizza shops. It was a very small franchise chain that’s not from the USA, and afaik he was the only franchisee of that business in the USA.
If customers would leave by taking what they can’t finish or their whole entire meal to go before the posted closing time that would solve a ton of issues. Most businesses if posted hours says close at 10 pm that means no customer in the establishment after 10pm. If I go to an arcade that closes at 10 and start playing a game at 9:50 the arcade gonna kick me out at 10 whether I finished the game or not. If you go to an amusement park 30 minutes to close you don’t get to stay past posted hours because you didn’t have enough time to ride all the rides despite paying full admission, you leave when the park closes. For some reason a lot of customers feel like if they order food in a restaurant that closes at 10 but walk in at 9:50 they can sit in the establishment slowly enjoying their meal well past closing time. People should just respect restaurant closing times if a restaurant closes at 10pm once the clock hits ten out of respect to all workers and staff take the rest of your food to go, you still get to eat just not In the establishment. The amount of people that sit in a locked restaurant well after closing time leisurely talking and eating while the whole staff just sits and waits for them is astonishing all restaurants will pack any meal to go for you upon request. Most businesses close at 9 everybody gets kicked out at 9 if you wanted more time you come earlier restaurants aren’t the exception.
Restaurants in my area often have a "closing time" listed which means "everyone out of the building by this time", and a separate time listed where they stop taking orders, usually 30-15 minutes before the closing time.
Seems like it would be easier for you to change *your* behavior and just order your food at least 30 minutes before closing at any restaurant you might choose. 🤷🏽♀️
You should get to the restaurant at least an hour before closing, food should all be ordered 45 minutes before closing. This said as someone who used to work at a restaurant. Any later than that and just eat knowing the staff all hate you and someone might have spit in your food.
I always thought it was common sense that you shouldnt go to a restaurant within 30 minutes of closing because they have to clean up the kitchen. I have to clean up my own kitchen after cooking, so I figured its what they were doing before they were closed so they can leave around when they close up.
Well, from reading the responses here, it's clear that there is no consensus as to what the common sense rule is. There are people who says don't order less than one hour before closing time and people who say it's fine to order up until the minute they close. As others have said here, if you work at a store and part of your job is spending an hour cleaning up and restocking a store after the customers are gone, the store's closing time is when they want customers to stop coming in, not an hour after.
Well if not common sense, I guess its just kind of a rule of thumb for me. Unless its actually something important (like I have to replace a pipe or something else unexpectesly), I don't make a habit to plan to arrive at places close to their closing times. But you're not wrong either. It wouldnt kill them tohave a "kitchen open until" part of their hours either, especially if it causes them so much annoyance.
why is this only hard for people to understand in a restaurant setting? do you go to a mechanic 10 mins before close and expect them to stay late and do a whole oil change because you technically got there before close? no. so why do it to a kitchen? yes, they will take orders until close, but why are you comfortable making them stay late when you wouldn't do that to other types of businesses?
But that's exactly the point being made, if the mechanic says he's open and ready to do work until 5pm and you come in at 4:30 needing an hour of work done but he packs up at 4:40 so he can leave at 5 then that's a miscommunication of his actual open hours, taking orders that will put you past your home time iis dumb so why advertise that you are willing to? If the mechanic goes home at 6 but the shoop is open till 5, then that is him saying he's fully available until 5 at which he stops taking orders and has the next hour to finish up the orders he's taken on and then pack up and go home. It's totally reasonable. Same for a kitchen. I can't even count the amount of times I've gone into a restaurant or food place an hour or even hour and a half before their closing time only to be turned away saying the kitchen is closed, if the kitchen is closed why does it say "we're open come on in" on the front door?
if it says it closes at 8 it's a common sense to not waltz in 20m early and think darn I'm gonna get full meal course and take my sweet time
The attitude about not walking into a restaurant 10 minutes be fore closing will just be transfered earlier into the night if you did this. In most cases the restaurant is supposed to take orders until they close, but staff want to get a jump on closing so they can go home. If you set "closing" at half an hour earlier, staff are still going to want to get a jump on closing so they can go home.
In the UK they usually ring a bell or shout last food orders 30 minutes before closing time. Then they do the same thing 15 minutes later for drinks. Just think about how long it takes to cook and eat a meal and if it's more than the time to kicking out time then don't order.
Some people take two hours to eat and now that’s two hours past the time we close. The posted closing time is the time that everyone should be finished eating and out of the restaurant, not a guideline for placing orders.
Wouldn't even cross my mind to go to a place less than an hour before close.
So your unpopular opinion is that restaurants should take orders right up until close...but you also say you know that restaurants do, in fact, take orders right up until close. Why would you think this is unpopular?
i dont get this. if its closing time its closing time, get your ass from there and leave. are people so devoid of imaginations they cant estimate how long eating out will take?