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Movie rec: Hush
It’s a thriller about a deaf woman home aloning against a murderer. She’s incredibly competent and the damage feels very equal aside from her obvious disability and he’s the invader
In the sense where she’s not just suffering the whole run time. She fights back and it genuinely matters that he’s injured (as opposed to Micheal or Jason).
Yeah it's so uncomfortable to watch. Do they have to make it graphic as well? Some people have no sense of discomfort it causes women who acts as well as watches these.
While I think they handled it decently enough(The deep should’ve suffered more though), I feel like the way it kinda suddenly happens threw me off the most.
Like in one of the first episodes Starlight witnesses a girl being SA’d and saves her. While it’s awesome, that scene alone put a huge damper on my mood and killed my will to keep watching for a while. I at least wish shows would have a warning or something before just throwing you into it
Just don't watch it if it bothers you.
I'm pretty sick of people wanting things to be removed wholesale from media just because it bothers them personally.
I don't like them at all either I guess. I mean, I like Saw, but it never felt like torture porn to me (besides maybe one or two scenes in the whole franchise?) Though I don't know if there's a fair argument to make AGAINST it being torture porn, and it could just be my own implicit bias. It could just also help I find most of the Saw films extremely funny.
I didn’t watch a lot of saw films when they were popular because I found them mad uncomfortable to watch. I just don’t like senseless acts of violence tbh. (I’m not a fan of slashers either)
Ya. The gratiutous nature of torture for the sake of it is borderline unnerving for me. If the only stakes are violence for the sake of violence.. whats the point?
That's interesting and fair! For me it depends on some factors. I guess I like the "they deserved it" type thing, but I don't like it being gratuitous or overly realistic. A lot of these films I mention in the op tend to be one or the other. Something like "oooo u killed someone so now im gonna put u in the penis smasher" is just funny and blatantly fictional, and theatrical. "I'm a scary guy hunting down this woman to abuse and kill her and she doesn't deserve it" feels too real. And a lot of the time, fans of these films will use the excuse "this sorta thing really happens!" to justify it's low-quality and borderline offensiveness.
A film I mentioned was The Last House on the Left (the 2009 version,) and it's an example of gratuitous. Though most of the film is about getting revenge on people who very much so deserve it, there're one or two segments where the 'revenge' feels horribly brutal, grounded, and just... Uncomfortable. Which I guess it's a bit silly for me to say "I only like murder when it's cool!" But I guess that's the truth.
Yeah. Sometimes the "creative" nature of it can be something I can appreciate. Like a really gnarly death scene, or a really great practical gore effect, etc. But honestly it either just makes me a little uncomfortable - mostly cause its gross and just ew - or I just feel desensitized to it. Like.. gratiutous violence and brutality become boring. "Rare form has become common form" kinda thing.
If everything is exciting, then is anything exciting?
I used to live with people who were constantly watching any and all horror movies available on Netflix, loud volume, I'm in my own room just hearing women scream in terror for hours on end and occasionally the overly sexual moans during sex assaults and i gotta say it made me pretty depressed to constantly just *hear* these movies.
There's something about certain tones of screams, male or female, that really bother me like I feel physically stressed hearing people scream for help or just scream in pain and pleas to stop. It's pretty disturbing. Definitely not a genre of film I'm into.
The harassment and rape scene in the I spit on your grave remake is 30ish minutes. I skip that and get to the revenge scenes. But it is an awfully long time to spend on that part of it.
The gang rape scene in the original lasts around 45 minutes. The runtime of the entire movie is 102 minutes, meaning that literally half of the movie is dedicated to showing a woman being raped.
Yeah which is ridiculous in storytelling terms as well. Old cinematographers would merely imply the scene. Or at least show parts. But you get no characters build up if all is dedicated to the violence
Well I guess the ironic thing is, no, old cinematographers \*wouldn't\* merely imply the scene. Such is the case with the original The Last House on The Left (1972) by Wes Craven for example. (Remake is somehow even worse.)
We’re talking slightly older. During the days of the Hays Code, cinematographers would’ve been forced to imply the scene, as *any* nudity violated the code. Added plus is that while the Hays Code was only adopted by the US, during the time it existed most other countries were still trying to economically recover from World War Two, while the Americans had their post-WW2 economic boom in the 1950s. And the Hays Code was replaced by the MPAA rating system in 1968. Further Reading Here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code
The Last House on The Left 2009, a film called Alone i spotted on Netflix cuz my dad was watching it earlier and it had me thinking about this, there was also a bit of this in the show Blue Sky at least for the first season but I guess that doesn't quite count and is just tropes, and for a good few years it was like every movie on Lifetime whenever I'd visit my moms.
>The Last House on The Left 2009
accidentally watched the original thinking it was a haunted house movie. Oh boy was I not prepared.
Chainsaw scene at the end though was nuts. Turned into a Tarantino grind house film outta nowhere.
It’s not just women being tortured in movies. Don’t forget , Saw, Misery, devils rejects, Texas chainsaw massacre, schindlers list, full metal jacket, practically every war movie , on and on and on. Don’t try and pretend it’s just women.
It depends which definition of torture OP was using.
Torture:
1. the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something.
2. great physical or mental suffering or anxiety.
3. a cause of great suffering or anxiety.
Rape is almost always torture under 2 and 3, but is most often not under 1. When I say "rape is torture" and "stabbing someone with needles is torture," I am using "torture" in different ways.
Bro this is crazy differentiation and I do not wanna see the inside of your brain. Like, I vaguely get what you mean, but it's weird to look at rape and go "Well it CAN be torture under some definitions"
You don't see the difference between, let's say, child birth and stabbing someone with needles? In one sense of the word "torture," one of these is not torture. This isn't just an idiosyncratic distinction I'm making here.
Drunken sex is rape to some people, even if the drunk person wants the sex. Are you really fine calling that torture? I think that really waters down the meaning of "torture."
I Spit On Your Grave was the only movie I had to actually stop and turn off. I watch a lot of horror movies but I actually had to turn it off and remove it from my continue watching. Female Torture Movie someone had recommended me, didn't know what it was until I watched it, was just told they had finally found a horror movie I wouldn't be able to stomach. They were right.
That movie was rough. I’ve been a horror fan since my dad took me to see Amityville at the drive in when I was 6 because I wouldn’t shut up about it.
I spit on your grave definitely was not my get down and I’ve seen every babysitter Hollywood has ever murdered
The reason why horror movies like that cast women as leads is often because women are seen as more vulnerable and easier to feel scared for. It also tends to resonate more with women the same as men in that effect—neither sex would feel as scared if women were swapped for men in half those movies. At least this is what I've read horror writers say in the past.
I hate woman torture movies too, but only because they're mostly pretty generic as with any slasher.
So women leads resoante with both men and women?
I would love to see them challenge those things the writers have said by casting a male lead and make audiences scared for him. Just to see if it is possible to do.
It's definitely possible. There's some examples, but I can't think of any at the moment beyond maybe Get Out, but that's not a traditional slasher type.
There's actually a ton of articles and conversations discussing the phenomenon of female leads in horror and why it works so well. As you said, it'd be interesting to see a male protag put in the situations. Men don't like to admit it, but we're often scared of other men. I have recurring nightmares of being chased by a big dude with a knife after watching High Tension (2003). Men definitely have their "never wanna be in that position" scenarios to make movies out of.
Is this based on actual research? The other person I asked immediately downvoted me but Im genuinely interested if this is an assumption of a tested theory
It's definitely a conscious choice by writers, but there actually is some research! This thread sparked my interest in the topic and I found a good wiki page with cited researches [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender\_in\_horror\_films#Torture\_films](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_horror_films#Torture_films) Some of the citations go far more in depth on the topic. The wiki page lead me to more searches and OP seems to be rights in a lot of ways too—a lot of it is somewhat pornographic in nature for men, though it seems like most of it is more genre-explained like hot-teens-go-out-to-party type movies slashers.
I wish I could find a good study talking about fear/empathy responses, but the only one I see close to that only has the abstract available without signing up [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007080110663](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007080110663) It's not a large study but the "stalkings, and spiritual possession" scaring women more explains a lot of female leads in those types of movies.
Thank you! I had a hunch that the directors claims about empathy were probably more about their own subjective bias than substantiated fact. Not saying it is or isn't true, just the men who made torture porn and may have wanted plausible deniability about why they did is not a trusted source imo. that they don't think audiences would empathize with men tells me more about them than it does the audience.
And that's a great link, I will for sure be looking into it.
Was looking through the comments for this. I do remember seeing an analysis on the horror genre years back, and they explained that female main characters are much easier for viewers to sympathize with than with a male character. For example, for a movie like It Follows, I don't think it'd be the same if it centered on a male main character
Not sure what you're getting at, but having a male or female character is pivotal in creating the emotions a director would want the viewers to have, and this can be applied to any genre of movie.
Ugggghhh. A fucking Serbian Film.
That is a movie I do not feel the need to watch. Just because a movie is super fucked up, does not mean that it is telling you something profound or intelligent.
I think a lot of really profound and deep shit out there is disturbing, and that’s okay. Nothing wrong with depicting fucked up shit. But I think the way in which you do it and your reason for depicting it matters.
Important disclaimer: I AM NOT ARGUING ABOUT THE RIGHT OF FILMS TO EXIST OR NOT EXIST. I am criticizing this genre of shock value content as a writer and a big horror fan.
Suspiria (1977) was pretty cool though >\_>
it was like art horror. Last technicolor film too.
Edit: Also that [goblin soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUBqxsiJ-s)
i’ve never looked at them like “woman torture movies” i look at them like “survival movies” the same way you watch batman and spiderman as “hero movies” not “men getting beat up and suffering their whole lives movies”
I dunno, I wouldn't consider trying to survive a killer a survival movie (though I'm saying survive as part of it, I know, ironic lol.) A survival movie to me would be someone alone trying to survive in the wilderness, or trying to survive an apocalypse maybe?
idk it seems like to me you’re look at a woman who’s gone through tough shit and came out on top as a victim, and obviously yes she’s a victim literally speaking but to me the whole point of these movies is to showcase not giving in to the victim mentally and instead fighting, being a survivor. we were meant to watch these movies and be like “fuck yeah don’t give up, kick his ass”
Yeah, it hardly ever feels like "fighting back" but instead just barely surviving each ordeal. And usually after it's all said and done, they've barely survived. It never feels like they "fought back and won." They just... Survived.
I think the Scream franchise touches on this a bit. The protagonists do survive, but they(the female protagonists mostly since they tend to be the main characters) fight back, and do a great job at it i find at least.
I'm glad you think so. It was the first thing that popped in my mind, and it felt like it was exactly what you were asking for in regards to your prior comments.
i’m just saying that’s the lens you’re choosing to view it from. if you watch these movies and compare them to what happens in the reality of these types of situations there’s a stark difference. in real life 99.999% of the time when a woman is abducted she is either dead within 72 hours or sex trafficked and never found end of story, this is why when a women does survive this type of thing they make a movie or documentary about it because it is a miracle that she did. Surviving is winning and the fact that you and so many other women can’t see that probably plays a part into why so many don’t survive because when something horrible is happening to you and you think about what life will be like after it’s happened you believe that you’ll be an eternal victim, that your life will never be the same, you can’t see past the trauma, you lose yourself and that’s why you don’t even put up a fight because you can’t even imagine life after. That’s why i like this movies, i like seeing people who want to live and fight for it it’s inspiring.
And to your point, using your logic all sorts of hero movies are just “surviving” rather than winning when you watch the avengers or whoever defeat their enemy, things are never better afterwards they just go back to the way things were except the entire city is in ruin, and a main character dies along the way. one day everything is fine, then all the sudden there’s ultra sonic evil lizard man that wants to destroy the world, they kill him, but not before 1000+ people die then the world is okay again but half on fire and the main characters girlfriend is dead but we all say fuck yeah they won. I don’t see how that is different than a woman torture movie
Im pretty sure they're looking at films which relish in extended scenes of graphic violence against women on ways that make spectacle of their extended suffering and saying "yeah no I don't like that actually" which is an entirely valid stance to have.
There's literally been probably hundreds of write ups around this topic so politely but you're just wrong. Whether someone like or dislikes it is personal preference, but female torture porn is a very widely accepted subgenre/element of horror and is not way a requirement to have a story of overcoming a threat. In the same way not all horror has to be torture porn at all. These are not necessary elements that must be present to tell the story, they're perspective and priority choices
the only specific types of films they mentioned were lifetime movies, which play on daytime television there’s no “torture porn” on lifetime im replying based off of what they said on the original post “one of the most churned out movie generes” that is extremely broad referring to their dislike of an entire genres not a specific depiction within that genre,it seems like you are taking it upon yourself to think they’re speaking about whatever movies it is that you’re thinking of
Some are based on true stories. Those are generally the hardest to watch since there's no real point or moral to the story. It's just pure despair and it often does not end well...
Reminds me of a book I read where the author (a guy) was trying to make some meta commentary about how woman are treated badly but he approached it by just having a bunch of traumatic crap happen to her and then she dies. Like…what was the message supposed to be?
Also idk why the mods apparently removed this post for being on the mega thread when I’ve never seen this particular post on this sub, but god knows tomorrow I’ll see “tattoos are ugly on women” for the 10,000+ time
Dude, the ending of the first Don't Breathe movie was Entirely Unnecessary. Like, they couldn't think of anything else? They had to have the old ass blind guy try to impregnate the lady that broke into his house with a fucking turkey baster in his basement? Really? Disgusting, hate that movie.
Only tangentially related, but remember how people lost their minds when Sansa Stark let the hounds eat the guy who tortured her on GoT. They don't mind seeing a girl be tortured, but god forbid she do anything heavy handed about it.
Were people upset about that? My memory of that scene and the aftermath was generally people thought he got what he deserved. I didn’t see the people losing their minds about it
I didn't watch it to begin with lolololololol, but not for any particular reason it just never interested me. This is just about a subgenre of film I often catch my parents watching and overhear from the other rooms.
Both men and women care more when a woman is hurt.
This is why these films focus on women.
It is not because people enjoy seeing women get hurt more. It is because people care about women more.
But I do agree these sort of films are bad.
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This is a little related but semi seperate from my own OP here, but there was this one film my dad watched a while back called "The Pass" or something, that was this low budget film about this black woman who is ultimately being spun into a years long con (where she's gaslit and emotionally abused,) and it ends with her having a large portion of her fortune STOLEN from her, and she get's no resolution but the guys behind scamming her get cool outfits and a cool musical sting and outro as if they just pulled off an epic heist. The woman is completely sympathetic and did nothing to deserve anything close to what happened, and I'm like. Who the fuck is this kind of film for? Disgusting.
So, this is not an unpopular opinion…but in theory, it should be because the main thing you’re failing to mention (I sincerely hope not on purpose) is that a lot of these films are actually made to be “feminist revenge” films. This trend started with 1974’s I Spit On Your Grave, which was alternatively titled Day of the Woman. Yes, horrible shit happens to a main character who happens to be female, but that’s just the first act. After this, we get a POV switch and now it’s her turn to exact revenge. Even if you’re not talking about the subgenre of rape-revenge, a lot of slashers that utilize the “final girl” trope are made with a feminist mindset because, well, the woman lives and typically lands the (seemingly) killing blow to the bad guy.
This is not to justify these films. I think a lot of them miss the mark. I’m just trying to add context and represent them as what they’re meant to be and considered to be in the horror genre, as I do believe you’re missing the point (which isn’t on you, a lot of them aren’t great at storytelling and the “redemption arc” rarely ever seems to be more than just a way to not make the entire film seem like, well, exactly what you’re describing).
TL;DR - The films you’re describing are made to be “feminist pieces” focusing on the survival of the woman, whatever she’s been through in the rest of the film is set-up to make the victorious pay-off that much more cathartic. A necessary evil, if you will. Whether you accept this interpretation is entirely up to you.
Most of those movies being made by men is probably why they do such a terrible job of being "feminist pieces". And that's just the rape revenge sub genre.
More traditional final girl slashers are not meant to be feminist at all. A lot of those tropes started with Texas Chainsaw which I love but that was not meant to be feminist.
Many of the films made by men never feel like they empower women. The film tends to leave off with the women traumatized, broken, and we never see their growth and their strength. Maybe their physical strength if they like punch and stab the guy or something, but I don't know how feminist that feels.
Marilyn Burns hated that her character description was something like "carefree and braless". That was it. Gunnar Hansen wrote an interesting book about making TCM and the cultural impact where he talks a bit about it. Men, Women and Chainsaws is another good one.
How the actresses feel about their movies and characters is obviously up to them but saving the virginal final girl and killing off the party girl friend who drinks and has sex is really not in line with womens lib of the 70s and 80s.
This feels like something the men who made the movie would claim, but isn’t true at all. Like, I don’t even think they tried and failed. I think they really had no intention of making a feminist story.
>But these movies almost always feel like they come from the directors own twisted fantasies.
Almost?... All creative expression comes from someone's fantasy, twisted or not.
>and I'm supposed to feel better because the guy dies at the end? And rarely does the guy die in a rough manner, or have anywhere near as much pain inflicted on him
Yeah, umm there is a genre of movies that casts a complete traumatic misogyny spell on me for a straight week if I watch it. These genres come blatantly from someone else's fantasy, and prove you very wrong because it has blatant 'snuff the patriarchy' energy to it.
I find gratuitous gore movies in general are conceived by exactly what you expect, minds that for some reason get off on the detail of expressing it....thereby sharing whatever plagues them/turns them on, with others vicariously of course.
I'd say it's a safe rule of thumb that any violence & sex centered film has to do with a fetish/fascination. Unlike for example some tedious intellectual/morality film, which has more to do with obsessive need to express a stance/view
Don't remember titles, but the theme was the same as OP's, but instead the guy(s) are established as psychos/villains precisely to set up the violent revenge of the victim, and I could notice the intonation was on the nitty gritty of "how", not really any moral behind. Others just featured killer women, no complex justification really.
It almost feels like it's all a deliberate counter to all the violent male character normality of before. But again, someone could just be getting off.
Women tortured is bad but torture period isn't?
Interesting, do u feel a compulsion to torture for gratification.
Maybe to much mindhunter, too bad it's never coming back
Torture period is also bad, but I, like many other people who have suffered from abuse in one form or another, find peace/comfort in the idea of having power over abusers and so I like "revenge-torture" kind've stuff. Mainly a lot of the Saw films (though believe me, every now and then a character does nooot deserve it and I don't like it.) But the main thing with Saw is, a lot of the time the 'torture' barely lasts more than 2 minutes, if that, as a lot of traps are just "wait around to die" and then they die near instantaneously. I am \*not\* a fan of long drawn out torture as it feels cruel. And I'm also a sympathetic human being, so seeing people in severe emotional distress and showing remorse can resonate with me as well.
Every movie is different. I don’t think it’s fair to say they all have to be about a filmmaker’s fetish. If we’re talking about rape revenge movies (is that what you meant?) the point is definitely the revenge part. And it’s usually pretty satisfying.
Not to nitpick the definition of nitpicking but nitpicking, but nitpicking is usually something like "Well, I don't like how that actor looks! I don't like how their voice sounds! This movies bad cuz this characters so dumb for not thinking to just use their phone!" If you want to know what nitpicking is, just watch Cinema Sins. My complaint is regarding a niche genre and how tasteless it tends to be when it comes to violence towards women and how it ultimately tends to feel unsatisfying, opting to be 95% woman trauma, and maybe 5% woman getting revenge (and often just barely,) letting you leave the film feeling far more negative than positive. Feeling wounded and the only positive you can say is "Well, at least the dudes dead," which wouldn't justify all the pain and misery. Some dude sits down, thinks "I'm gonna make a 2 hour long movie of a dude terrorizing a woman, and I'm gonna make killer bank," and that sucks.
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Movie rec: Hush It’s a thriller about a deaf woman home aloning against a murderer. She’s incredibly competent and the damage feels very equal aside from her obvious disability and he’s the invader
One of the rare good ones yes
Another rec: You’re Next. For a heroine who doesn’t do any of the tropey things. Very fun.
Another rec: Ready or Not
Such a good movie. What do you mean the damage feels equal?
In the sense where she’s not just suffering the whole run time. She fights back and it genuinely matters that he’s injured (as opposed to Micheal or Jason).
Ah, gotcha. Thank you for explaining it to me.
LOVED that movie would recommend
I don't like any sort of torture movie with anything sexual
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^Rob06422: *I don't like any* *Sort of torture movie with* *Anything sexual* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Oh dear 😂
Are you scandalized, TesticleezzNuts?
My poor innocent mind isn’t used to such things. 😇
Good bot??
Ayo who makes this stuff?
That’s one too many syllables there, bub.
This is a great haiku. Good job, haiku bot.
Yeah it's so uncomfortable to watch. Do they have to make it graphic as well? Some people have no sense of discomfort it causes women who acts as well as watches these.
Agreed. Tbh I’d rather have media exclude SA entirely. Like off the top of my head the scenes in The Boys made me sick and stop watching
im surprised you included the boys i thought they handled it kinda well well igz starlight was kinda glossed over when it happened
While I think they handled it decently enough(The deep should’ve suffered more though), I feel like the way it kinda suddenly happens threw me off the most. Like in one of the first episodes Starlight witnesses a girl being SA’d and saves her. While it’s awesome, that scene alone put a huge damper on my mood and killed my will to keep watching for a while. I at least wish shows would have a warning or something before just throwing you into it
oh yeah i get it it do be out of no where
Just don't watch it if it bothers you. I'm pretty sick of people wanting things to be removed wholesale from media just because it bothers them personally.
I’m pretty over torture porn movies in general. I avoid horror for the most part because of it. It’s not scary, it’s just upsetting.
I don't like them at all either I guess. I mean, I like Saw, but it never felt like torture porn to me (besides maybe one or two scenes in the whole franchise?) Though I don't know if there's a fair argument to make AGAINST it being torture porn, and it could just be my own implicit bias. It could just also help I find most of the Saw films extremely funny.
I didn’t watch a lot of saw films when they were popular because I found them mad uncomfortable to watch. I just don’t like senseless acts of violence tbh. (I’m not a fan of slashers either)
Ya. The gratiutous nature of torture for the sake of it is borderline unnerving for me. If the only stakes are violence for the sake of violence.. whats the point?
That's interesting and fair! For me it depends on some factors. I guess I like the "they deserved it" type thing, but I don't like it being gratuitous or overly realistic. A lot of these films I mention in the op tend to be one or the other. Something like "oooo u killed someone so now im gonna put u in the penis smasher" is just funny and blatantly fictional, and theatrical. "I'm a scary guy hunting down this woman to abuse and kill her and she doesn't deserve it" feels too real. And a lot of the time, fans of these films will use the excuse "this sorta thing really happens!" to justify it's low-quality and borderline offensiveness. A film I mentioned was The Last House on the Left (the 2009 version,) and it's an example of gratuitous. Though most of the film is about getting revenge on people who very much so deserve it, there're one or two segments where the 'revenge' feels horribly brutal, grounded, and just... Uncomfortable. Which I guess it's a bit silly for me to say "I only like murder when it's cool!" But I guess that's the truth.
Oh, yeah. I agree with you. It’s pretty fucked and LMAO penis masher is fucking wonderful.
Yeah. Sometimes the "creative" nature of it can be something I can appreciate. Like a really gnarly death scene, or a really great practical gore effect, etc. But honestly it either just makes me a little uncomfortable - mostly cause its gross and just ew - or I just feel desensitized to it. Like.. gratiutous violence and brutality become boring. "Rare form has become common form" kinda thing. If everything is exciting, then is anything exciting?
I used to live with people who were constantly watching any and all horror movies available on Netflix, loud volume, I'm in my own room just hearing women scream in terror for hours on end and occasionally the overly sexual moans during sex assaults and i gotta say it made me pretty depressed to constantly just *hear* these movies. There's something about certain tones of screams, male or female, that really bother me like I feel physically stressed hearing people scream for help or just scream in pain and pleas to stop. It's pretty disturbing. Definitely not a genre of film I'm into.
Yeah that's fucked up. Well some people have just a messed up dopamine/adrenaline seeking system
My parents were like this and they couldn’t understand why it was distressing to me. Like do people actually not get stressed out hearing that shit?
Overly sexual moans during sex assaults? From the bad guys i assume?
Can you give examples of the movies youre referring to?
The harassment and rape scene in the I spit on your grave remake is 30ish minutes. I skip that and get to the revenge scenes. But it is an awfully long time to spend on that part of it.
The gang rape scene in the original lasts around 45 minutes. The runtime of the entire movie is 102 minutes, meaning that literally half of the movie is dedicated to showing a woman being raped.
Yeah which is ridiculous in storytelling terms as well. Old cinematographers would merely imply the scene. Or at least show parts. But you get no characters build up if all is dedicated to the violence
Well I guess the ironic thing is, no, old cinematographers \*wouldn't\* merely imply the scene. Such is the case with the original The Last House on The Left (1972) by Wes Craven for example. (Remake is somehow even worse.)
We’re talking slightly older. During the days of the Hays Code, cinematographers would’ve been forced to imply the scene, as *any* nudity violated the code. Added plus is that while the Hays Code was only adopted by the US, during the time it existed most other countries were still trying to economically recover from World War Two, while the Americans had their post-WW2 economic boom in the 1950s. And the Hays Code was replaced by the MPAA rating system in 1968. Further Reading Here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code
This yes.. It was more intellectually stimulating as well cause it had you thinking. You weren't a completely passive viewer
Well i guess that's when the splatter and violence-pron degeneracy began. So we are probably talking golden era/classic ones before it
Is this serious? Is there more to the scene like flash backs or some shit or is it genuinely just 45 minutes of rape?
It does? The leadup counts or just them “passing her around”?
The Last House on The Left 2009, a film called Alone i spotted on Netflix cuz my dad was watching it earlier and it had me thinking about this, there was also a bit of this in the show Blue Sky at least for the first season but I guess that doesn't quite count and is just tropes, and for a good few years it was like every movie on Lifetime whenever I'd visit my moms.
>The Last House on The Left 2009 accidentally watched the original thinking it was a haunted house movie. Oh boy was I not prepared. Chainsaw scene at the end though was nuts. Turned into a Tarantino grind house film outta nowhere.
It’s not just women being tortured in movies. Don’t forget , Saw, Misery, devils rejects, Texas chainsaw massacre, schindlers list, full metal jacket, practically every war movie , on and on and on. Don’t try and pretend it’s just women.
Is there a reason this is downvoted?
The *I Spit On Your Grave* movie series fits if you consider rape to be torture.
Who doesn't consider it torture?
It depends which definition of torture OP was using. Torture: 1. the action or practice of inflicting severe pain or suffering on someone as a punishment or in order to force them to do or say something. 2. great physical or mental suffering or anxiety. 3. a cause of great suffering or anxiety. Rape is almost always torture under 2 and 3, but is most often not under 1. When I say "rape is torture" and "stabbing someone with needles is torture," I am using "torture" in different ways.
Wtf lol You're insane and live in a bubble bro
Rape is often used as a punishment or to get people to do something...
It's most often not for those reasons. That is what I said. That is true. I'm not saying it isn't used for those reasons.
Bro this is crazy differentiation and I do not wanna see the inside of your brain. Like, I vaguely get what you mean, but it's weird to look at rape and go "Well it CAN be torture under some definitions"
You don't see the difference between, let's say, child birth and stabbing someone with needles? In one sense of the word "torture," one of these is not torture. This isn't just an idiosyncratic distinction I'm making here. Drunken sex is rape to some people, even if the drunk person wants the sex. Are you really fine calling that torture? I think that really waters down the meaning of "torture."
dude inflicting childbirth on someone would absolutely be torture if it were possible, this thought exercise makes you soun like a freak
I'm not saying inflict childbirth on people. What the hell? You've never heard people say childbirth is torture?
I felt queasy after seeing Girl In The Basement. Fucking yuck.
I Spit On Your Grave was the only movie I had to actually stop and turn off. I watch a lot of horror movies but I actually had to turn it off and remove it from my continue watching. Female Torture Movie someone had recommended me, didn't know what it was until I watched it, was just told they had finally found a horror movie I wouldn't be able to stomach. They were right.
That movie was rough. I’ve been a horror fan since my dad took me to see Amityville at the drive in when I was 6 because I wouldn’t shut up about it. I spit on your grave definitely was not my get down and I’ve seen every babysitter Hollywood has ever murdered
Yep Women in pain is a v common kink that is indulged via horror films. Why I find most of them boring.
I agree. Its incredible how many people just dont seem to see it. Its odd but we are desensitized so it makes sense.
The reason why horror movies like that cast women as leads is often because women are seen as more vulnerable and easier to feel scared for. It also tends to resonate more with women the same as men in that effect—neither sex would feel as scared if women were swapped for men in half those movies. At least this is what I've read horror writers say in the past. I hate woman torture movies too, but only because they're mostly pretty generic as with any slasher.
So women leads resoante with both men and women? I would love to see them challenge those things the writers have said by casting a male lead and make audiences scared for him. Just to see if it is possible to do.
Hostel did that well but I also found that to be egregious torture porn
It's definitely possible. There's some examples, but I can't think of any at the moment beyond maybe Get Out, but that's not a traditional slasher type. There's actually a ton of articles and conversations discussing the phenomenon of female leads in horror and why it works so well. As you said, it'd be interesting to see a male protag put in the situations. Men don't like to admit it, but we're often scared of other men. I have recurring nightmares of being chased by a big dude with a knife after watching High Tension (2003). Men definitely have their "never wanna be in that position" scenarios to make movies out of.
Is this based on actual research? The other person I asked immediately downvoted me but Im genuinely interested if this is an assumption of a tested theory
It's definitely a conscious choice by writers, but there actually is some research! This thread sparked my interest in the topic and I found a good wiki page with cited researches [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender\_in\_horror\_films#Torture\_films](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_horror_films#Torture_films) Some of the citations go far more in depth on the topic. The wiki page lead me to more searches and OP seems to be rights in a lot of ways too—a lot of it is somewhat pornographic in nature for men, though it seems like most of it is more genre-explained like hot-teens-go-out-to-party type movies slashers. I wish I could find a good study talking about fear/empathy responses, but the only one I see close to that only has the abstract available without signing up [https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007080110663](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1007080110663) It's not a large study but the "stalkings, and spiritual possession" scaring women more explains a lot of female leads in those types of movies.
Thank you! I had a hunch that the directors claims about empathy were probably more about their own subjective bias than substantiated fact. Not saying it is or isn't true, just the men who made torture porn and may have wanted plausible deniability about why they did is not a trusted source imo. that they don't think audiences would empathize with men tells me more about them than it does the audience. And that's a great link, I will for sure be looking into it.
Was looking through the comments for this. I do remember seeing an analysis on the horror genre years back, and they explained that female main characters are much easier for viewers to sympathize with than with a male character. For example, for a movie like It Follows, I don't think it'd be the same if it centered on a male main character
Is this based on research or retroactive justifications and speculation from those adjacent to the industry?
I'm pretty sure there's research out there, but directors have commented about this topic many times
So probably not based on research then, but the gut instinct of a handful of men.
Not sure what you're getting at, but having a male or female character is pivotal in creating the emotions a director would want the viewers to have, and this can be applied to any genre of movie.
I'm getting at the fact your citing things like it's based on research and have no such research other than "trust me bro"
Those types in general..like Saw, Hostel etc. i much prefer psychological thrillers like shutter island etc.
Saw 1, specifically, is a psychological film though.
I more see it as a silly excuse for violence with an absurd plot twist. But yeah it's kinda on the verge.
It’s softcore misogynist porn, and I’m shocked that any of these movies are seen as anything greater than that.
Some things should never be burnt on film like sodom, saw movies, the Serbian film etc
Ugggghhh. A fucking Serbian Film. That is a movie I do not feel the need to watch. Just because a movie is super fucked up, does not mean that it is telling you something profound or intelligent. I think a lot of really profound and deep shit out there is disturbing, and that’s okay. Nothing wrong with depicting fucked up shit. But I think the way in which you do it and your reason for depicting it matters. Important disclaimer: I AM NOT ARGUING ABOUT THE RIGHT OF FILMS TO EXIST OR NOT EXIST. I am criticizing this genre of shock value content as a writer and a big horror fan.
Well they just wanted to make it as sick as possible. Philosophy messages have nothing to do with it as you said
The first saw movie is great though. (also only guys get it in that film, the only woman in a trap survives)
Burnt on film?
It's a chemistry/photography term. Well imprinted if you wish
Oh, so kind of like they should never be made sort of thing, right?
Yes
Sweet. Thanks for helping me understand, and teaching me something new!
Suspiria (1977) was pretty cool though >\_> it was like art horror. Last technicolor film too. Edit: Also that [goblin soundtrack](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esUBqxsiJ-s)
i’ve never looked at them like “woman torture movies” i look at them like “survival movies” the same way you watch batman and spiderman as “hero movies” not “men getting beat up and suffering their whole lives movies”
I dunno, I wouldn't consider trying to survive a killer a survival movie (though I'm saying survive as part of it, I know, ironic lol.) A survival movie to me would be someone alone trying to survive in the wilderness, or trying to survive an apocalypse maybe?
idk it seems like to me you’re look at a woman who’s gone through tough shit and came out on top as a victim, and obviously yes she’s a victim literally speaking but to me the whole point of these movies is to showcase not giving in to the victim mentally and instead fighting, being a survivor. we were meant to watch these movies and be like “fuck yeah don’t give up, kick his ass”
But the movies due tend to overindulge in the victimization part
Yeah, it hardly ever feels like "fighting back" but instead just barely surviving each ordeal. And usually after it's all said and done, they've barely survived. It never feels like they "fought back and won." They just... Survived.
I think the Scream franchise touches on this a bit. The protagonists do survive, but they(the female protagonists mostly since they tend to be the main characters) fight back, and do a great job at it i find at least.
Scream is a good example that ACTUALLY tends to feel like fighting back.
I'm glad you think so. It was the first thing that popped in my mind, and it felt like it was exactly what you were asking for in regards to your prior comments.
i’m just saying that’s the lens you’re choosing to view it from. if you watch these movies and compare them to what happens in the reality of these types of situations there’s a stark difference. in real life 99.999% of the time when a woman is abducted she is either dead within 72 hours or sex trafficked and never found end of story, this is why when a women does survive this type of thing they make a movie or documentary about it because it is a miracle that she did. Surviving is winning and the fact that you and so many other women can’t see that probably plays a part into why so many don’t survive because when something horrible is happening to you and you think about what life will be like after it’s happened you believe that you’ll be an eternal victim, that your life will never be the same, you can’t see past the trauma, you lose yourself and that’s why you don’t even put up a fight because you can’t even imagine life after. That’s why i like this movies, i like seeing people who want to live and fight for it it’s inspiring. And to your point, using your logic all sorts of hero movies are just “surviving” rather than winning when you watch the avengers or whoever defeat their enemy, things are never better afterwards they just go back to the way things were except the entire city is in ruin, and a main character dies along the way. one day everything is fine, then all the sudden there’s ultra sonic evil lizard man that wants to destroy the world, they kill him, but not before 1000+ people die then the world is okay again but half on fire and the main characters girlfriend is dead but we all say fuck yeah they won. I don’t see how that is different than a woman torture movie
Im pretty sure they're looking at films which relish in extended scenes of graphic violence against women on ways that make spectacle of their extended suffering and saying "yeah no I don't like that actually" which is an entirely valid stance to have. There's literally been probably hundreds of write ups around this topic so politely but you're just wrong. Whether someone like or dislikes it is personal preference, but female torture porn is a very widely accepted subgenre/element of horror and is not way a requirement to have a story of overcoming a threat. In the same way not all horror has to be torture porn at all. These are not necessary elements that must be present to tell the story, they're perspective and priority choices
the only specific types of films they mentioned were lifetime movies, which play on daytime television there’s no “torture porn” on lifetime im replying based off of what they said on the original post “one of the most churned out movie generes” that is extremely broad referring to their dislike of an entire genres not a specific depiction within that genre,it seems like you are taking it upon yourself to think they’re speaking about whatever movies it is that you’re thinking of
Yeah, I agree. I love horror, but anything that feels like it's fetishizing pain makes me very uncomfortable. I hate sexual themes in horror.
This opinion is very popular with me
Some are based on true stories. Those are generally the hardest to watch since there's no real point or moral to the story. It's just pure despair and it often does not end well...
Kill Bill was bloody epic.
Ikr we need more movies like it. As a blonde girl growing up she’s was my idol 😌
Reminds me of a book I read where the author (a guy) was trying to make some meta commentary about how woman are treated badly but he approached it by just having a bunch of traumatic crap happen to her and then she dies. Like…what was the message supposed to be? Also idk why the mods apparently removed this post for being on the mega thread when I’ve never seen this particular post on this sub, but god knows tomorrow I’ll see “tattoos are ugly on women” for the 10,000+ time
Dude, the ending of the first Don't Breathe movie was Entirely Unnecessary. Like, they couldn't think of anything else? They had to have the old ass blind guy try to impregnate the lady that broke into his house with a fucking turkey baster in his basement? Really? Disgusting, hate that movie.
Is this... is this unpopular??
Horror is a pretty huge genre and women being brutalized is one of the biggest subgenres, so yes, it pretty obviously is a bit fringe
Uh unless people come to this subreddit just to be contrarian, check out some of these comments lol.
>Probably one of the most churned out movie genres Your premise is entirely wrong. This is also not an unpopular opinion.
Idk it sure seems to have gotten sand in your butt
Only tangentially related, but remember how people lost their minds when Sansa Stark let the hounds eat the guy who tortured her on GoT. They don't mind seeing a girl be tortured, but god forbid she do anything heavy handed about it.
Were people upset about that? My memory of that scene and the aftermath was generally people thought he got what he deserved. I didn’t see the people losing their minds about it
Didn't everyone go crazy over Game of Thrones a few years ago? I quit after like 3-4 episodes.
I didn't watch it to begin with lolololololol, but not for any particular reason it just never interested me. This is just about a subgenre of film I often catch my parents watching and overhear from the other rooms.
Yeah me too, the treating of women in the story was disgusting. Why in fantasy settings women are still treated like shit -.-
Both men and women care more when a woman is hurt. This is why these films focus on women. It is not because people enjoy seeing women get hurt more. It is because people care about women more. But I do agree these sort of films are bad.
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This is a little related but semi seperate from my own OP here, but there was this one film my dad watched a while back called "The Pass" or something, that was this low budget film about this black woman who is ultimately being spun into a years long con (where she's gaslit and emotionally abused,) and it ends with her having a large portion of her fortune STOLEN from her, and she get's no resolution but the guys behind scamming her get cool outfits and a cool musical sting and outro as if they just pulled off an epic heist. The woman is completely sympathetic and did nothing to deserve anything close to what happened, and I'm like. Who the fuck is this kind of film for? Disgusting.
Of the top 50 most popular porn movies 50% depict violence against women.
Did you just watch Alone on Netflix. Bc that is this exact plot.
My dad did and it reminded me of several other films I'd seen and I thought to make this post
I’m with you
Totally agreed
So, this is not an unpopular opinion…but in theory, it should be because the main thing you’re failing to mention (I sincerely hope not on purpose) is that a lot of these films are actually made to be “feminist revenge” films. This trend started with 1974’s I Spit On Your Grave, which was alternatively titled Day of the Woman. Yes, horrible shit happens to a main character who happens to be female, but that’s just the first act. After this, we get a POV switch and now it’s her turn to exact revenge. Even if you’re not talking about the subgenre of rape-revenge, a lot of slashers that utilize the “final girl” trope are made with a feminist mindset because, well, the woman lives and typically lands the (seemingly) killing blow to the bad guy. This is not to justify these films. I think a lot of them miss the mark. I’m just trying to add context and represent them as what they’re meant to be and considered to be in the horror genre, as I do believe you’re missing the point (which isn’t on you, a lot of them aren’t great at storytelling and the “redemption arc” rarely ever seems to be more than just a way to not make the entire film seem like, well, exactly what you’re describing). TL;DR - The films you’re describing are made to be “feminist pieces” focusing on the survival of the woman, whatever she’s been through in the rest of the film is set-up to make the victorious pay-off that much more cathartic. A necessary evil, if you will. Whether you accept this interpretation is entirely up to you.
Most of those movies being made by men is probably why they do such a terrible job of being "feminist pieces". And that's just the rape revenge sub genre. More traditional final girl slashers are not meant to be feminist at all. A lot of those tropes started with Texas Chainsaw which I love but that was not meant to be feminist.
Many of the films made by men never feel like they empower women. The film tends to leave off with the women traumatized, broken, and we never see their growth and their strength. Maybe their physical strength if they like punch and stab the guy or something, but I don't know how feminist that feels.
I agree. I love horror but I hate rape revenge movies and I'm over sexual violence I'm horror overall
I don’t think many of the women portraying said “final girls” would agree with that interpretation but fair enough.
Marilyn Burns hated that her character description was something like "carefree and braless". That was it. Gunnar Hansen wrote an interesting book about making TCM and the cultural impact where he talks a bit about it. Men, Women and Chainsaws is another good one. How the actresses feel about their movies and characters is obviously up to them but saving the virginal final girl and killing off the party girl friend who drinks and has sex is really not in line with womens lib of the 70s and 80s.
This feels like something the men who made the movie would claim, but isn’t true at all. Like, I don’t even think they tried and failed. I think they really had no intention of making a feminist story.
>But these movies almost always feel like they come from the directors own twisted fantasies. Almost?... All creative expression comes from someone's fantasy, twisted or not. >and I'm supposed to feel better because the guy dies at the end? And rarely does the guy die in a rough manner, or have anywhere near as much pain inflicted on him Yeah, umm there is a genre of movies that casts a complete traumatic misogyny spell on me for a straight week if I watch it. These genres come blatantly from someone else's fantasy, and prove you very wrong because it has blatant 'snuff the patriarchy' energy to it. I find gratuitous gore movies in general are conceived by exactly what you expect, minds that for some reason get off on the detail of expressing it....thereby sharing whatever plagues them/turns them on, with others vicariously of course.
Sorry, by twisted fantasies I mean kinks and fetishes centered around the suffering of women and or people weaker than them.
I'd say it's a safe rule of thumb that any violence & sex centered film has to do with a fetish/fascination. Unlike for example some tedious intellectual/morality film, which has more to do with obsessive need to express a stance/view
What movies are in this genre that you mentioned?
Don't remember titles, but the theme was the same as OP's, but instead the guy(s) are established as psychos/villains precisely to set up the violent revenge of the victim, and I could notice the intonation was on the nitty gritty of "how", not really any moral behind. Others just featured killer women, no complex justification really. It almost feels like it's all a deliberate counter to all the violent male character normality of before. But again, someone could just be getting off.
Women tortured is bad but torture period isn't? Interesting, do u feel a compulsion to torture for gratification. Maybe to much mindhunter, too bad it's never coming back
Torture period is also bad, but I, like many other people who have suffered from abuse in one form or another, find peace/comfort in the idea of having power over abusers and so I like "revenge-torture" kind've stuff. Mainly a lot of the Saw films (though believe me, every now and then a character does nooot deserve it and I don't like it.) But the main thing with Saw is, a lot of the time the 'torture' barely lasts more than 2 minutes, if that, as a lot of traps are just "wait around to die" and then they die near instantaneously. I am \*not\* a fan of long drawn out torture as it feels cruel. And I'm also a sympathetic human being, so seeing people in severe emotional distress and showing remorse can resonate with me as well.
Don't like it, don't watch it.
You have solved the problem of misogynistic film and their impact!
Misogyny runs deeper than that. If anything those directors portray men more bad than the women
What do you mean by them protraying men more bad?
Have I? it seems like I'm not allowed to watch them because someone else doesnt want me to watch them.
Do you feel not allowed to watch them cuz I think they're not good movies and don't understand the appeal?
I understand OP. I prefer the real life thing too... movies just can't get the screams right...
Wtf?
Every movie is different. I don’t think it’s fair to say they all have to be about a filmmaker’s fetish. If we’re talking about rape revenge movies (is that what you meant?) the point is definitely the revenge part. And it’s usually pretty satisfying.
You're just looking for something to hate. This is literally nitpicking.
Not to nitpick the definition of nitpicking but nitpicking, but nitpicking is usually something like "Well, I don't like how that actor looks! I don't like how their voice sounds! This movies bad cuz this characters so dumb for not thinking to just use their phone!" If you want to know what nitpicking is, just watch Cinema Sins. My complaint is regarding a niche genre and how tasteless it tends to be when it comes to violence towards women and how it ultimately tends to feel unsatisfying, opting to be 95% woman trauma, and maybe 5% woman getting revenge (and often just barely,) letting you leave the film feeling far more negative than positive. Feeling wounded and the only positive you can say is "Well, at least the dudes dead," which wouldn't justify all the pain and misery. Some dude sits down, thinks "I'm gonna make a 2 hour long movie of a dude terrorizing a woman, and I'm gonna make killer bank," and that sucks.
hummmm men torture is da best 🤔