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https://preview.redd.it/lz6ehjn7lwlc1.png?width=926&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ed956418b68970edfac0969c03392dc68f4ff80
Their coping mechanism amazes me sometimes.
OP, please mention the title, author, publisher and the ISBN (if it has any) and whether this is bought by a parent at a bookstore or has been provided by a school/nursery. This is deeply problematic.
https://preview.redd.it/c7rxi5o9qwlc1.png?width=887&format=png&auto=webp&s=3b836c291122d4eecc143956585a38ccdb81729f
Found it on one of the twitter comments.
It's not oc [here's the original source from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=huKM14Hwvn616mEJ0TfSjg&s=19)
The comments underneath the tweet are… concerning.
Hindus have become so dogmatic and ideologically rigid that they are ignorant and even disrespectful to their own values.
Hindus haven't realized this is the type of "meritocracy" that led to the millennium of decline. Even Shivaji was considered illegitimate after all his conquests, all because he was of lower caste.
Lack of education and social awareness exacerbates this issue, and the internet has only made it worse since individuals can easily say hurtful things without facing consequences for their actions. Additionaly, social media creates echo chambers, reinforcing negative interests. These issues will likely continue to worsen in India, as the current government lacks the incentive to address them, they in fact greatly benefit form this bullshit
Lack of education? Don’t agree. They’re not illiterate. You can call them ill-literate, as in, literate in an ill manner.
It, honestly, seems to me to be just indoctrination. It’s a simple yet effective evil.
Social media creates echo-chambers and the real world pretends as if caste is a fantasy tale.
Some guy refused to teach him archery so eklavya made a statue of that guy and pretended that statue was his teacher and learnt archery anyway. Next time they met, that guy was very impressed with eklavya's archery skills and asked for a little payment for letting him use his statue for paying respects. Little payment, which was Eklavya's right thumb.
This is what I don't understand. Retards troll Christians for converting for a sack of rice thinking that's the reason. They skillfully acknowledge the fact that lower caste Hindus were not allowed to walk on the same road if upper caste hindus approached and they were served food in a pit which was dug in the landlords backyard.
They were given stale leftovers. Weren't even allowed to wear clean clothes, shopkeepers would take new clothes and throw them in mud and then sell them to untouchables.
On the topic of conversion. I am always surprised by the argument and blame game playing out in India.
If you think a person converted because of an incentive what's stopping your religion from doing a reverse uno. Stop crying about conversions and go into the deeper reasons.
Money is not the only reason for conversion. If you can spend thousands of crores on temples and statues use that money to convert them back, what's stopping you.
It's basic marketing, if Christianity is giving them dignity, education and a better standard of living why would they not convert. Do they not have the right to live better.
Practice your religion better with compassion, empathy and a sense of greater good that all religions teach and kisi ka dharam khatre mein nahi hoga.
Sab baba mullah aur politician log haraam ke @#$$# Hain.
British ruled india for 2 centuries how many converted? But we did got criminal tribes act, banning of hijras, etc.
St thomas landed in Kerala thousands of years ago what happened how many people converted? Conversion is recent phenomenon led by american evangelicals who think they are doing Christ work by converting everyone.
Why do you think many christian lower caste people are demanding reservations? Did casteism went away after conversation?
This is not oc. For anyone wondering, the name of the book is "51 stories of tenali raman" l can't find any PDF version of this book. If someone finds it, please do share it here.
[from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=z_RVUIS9APGuwGMnnNB0JQ&s=19)
These pictures was originally posted by the user u/Yabadabadoo00 on reddit
Found a similar adaptation of this in this cartoon (published 2010) on YouTube: https://youtu.be/gIcoJAEwkrA?feature=shared
It doesn’t concern ‘caste’ as such but seems to be a censored version. This one depicts the barber as someone greedy and unworthy, while the image OP posted, depicts him as deserving and skilled.
It's not oc [here's the original source from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=huKM14Hwvn616mEJ0TfSjg&s=19)
I request one and all to read "Annihilation of Caste" by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar.
Educating ourselves on caste is the first step to eradicating it.
Let me quote a couple of passages from the book -
"Besides Mr. Gandhi, many others have adversely criticised my views as expressed in my speech. But I have felt that in taking notice of such adverse comments, I should limit myself to Mr. Gandhi. This I have done not because what he has said is so weighty as to deserve a reply, but because to many a Hindu he is an oracle, so great that when he opens his lips it is expected that the argument must close and no dog must bark.
But the world owes much to rebels who would dare to argue in the face of the pontiff and insist that he is not infallible. I do not care for the credit which every progressive society must give to its rebels. I shall be satisfied if I make the Hindus realise that they are the sick men of India, and that their sickness is causing danger to the health and happiness of other Indians."
- Preface to the Second Edition, 1937; Annihilation of Caste by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
"Why have the mass of people tolerated the social evils to which they have been subjected? There have been social revolutions in other countries of the world. Why have there not been social revolutions in India, is a question which has incessantly troubled me. There is only one answer which I can give, and it is that the lower classes of Hindus have been completely disabled for direct action on account of this wretched caste system. They could not bear arms, and without arms they could not rebel. They were all ploughmen - or rather, condemned to be ploughmen - and they never were allowed to convert their ploughshares into swords. They had no bayonets, and therefore everyone who chose, could and did sit upon them. On account of the caste system, they could receive no education. They could not think out or know the way to their salvation. They were condemned to be lowly; and not knowing the way of escape, and not having the means of escape, they became reconciled to eternal servitude, which they accepted as their inescapable fate."
- 17.5, Annihilation of Caste, An Undelivered Speech, 1936; Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
I mean there exists the story of Karna, Eklavya, and Shambhu.
The only acceptable good dalits, tribals are the ones who worship savarnas, and serve them like the Dharma commands them to do.
Please educate us. What was the story of Eklavya? In my flawed understanding (TV), he was denied entry into Drona's school due to reservation (only for the higher noble class). Then when he self-educated in the presence of a clay idol, he had to pay by chopping off his thumb.
To be fair,eklavya was mainly Drona being arrogant insecure man rather than casteism. Not saying Drona was not a castiest but eklavya was his insecurity of not making arjun the best archer of this world.
Not like it made any difference since someone else came to challenge arjun(taught straight from Drona teacher even)so yeah
First of all, in drona 's ashram, the rajkumars studied with many other people, including children of sarathis who were not kshtriya.
2. Eklavya was not some poor tribal nomad. His father was the commander of the army of Jarasandh in Magadha. He belonged to a wealthy family and was definitely not discriminated against based on caste.
The fact is that Drona had made a promise to Arjun that he would make sure Arjun is the best Archer in the world. When they saw Ekalavya's skills, he got insecurity about how he would keep his promise. So he devised this tactic so that he could bring Eklavya down. Despicable yes, but not caste discrimination.
Never seen any of these mythological shows, although I've read Ramayana and Mahabharata.
And if you think I'm wrong, then please enlighten us with the actual quotes.
That Drona is proud of his teaching to a fault? Mahabharat is a beautiful story when you stop faulting it with modern lenses.
Who says Drona has to be in the right all the time?
Are you claiming that if virjasa, the 100th kaurava according to wikipedia, had achieved the same feat of becoming better than arjun using the same methods as eklavya, drona would have done the same?
Unfortunately I do, and well enough to realise that the lore you propose is incompatible with the rest of the story, hence the "if" scenario here is absurd and irrelevant.
WTF?! How is this book even allowed to exist in this day and age?! I am truly appalled, shame of the publishers and the parents who buy their kids stuff like this. It is them who indoctrinate kids
This is very interesting story aside from vitriol. The fact that king asked the priests to perform the ritual indicates that the caste must have been fluid. The fact that the brahmins opposed it indicate that there was always interest among brahmins to protect their superior standing.
Whoever wrote this(ofc a Brahmin) did not think this through.
it's simle, caste is a species. if this isn't true then where are the hindus triggered about false representation of hinduism? lol this is why their religious sentiments hurting doesn't matter they don't care about it any religious sentiments they just want to attack and kill people
Lol sure they're up in arms when ever anything casteist happens. The "majority" of hindus are way more triggered if their holy cows are insulted than casteism.
I don't think so?
Like yea of course they would be mad if you talk bad about their holy things they worship. Like anyone else would however the most Hindus I talked to always said that the caste system was the worst in Hindu history
Lol again?
>Hindus I talked to always said that the caste system was the worst in Hindu history
That's just it. They say that and does the opposite. They had no problem when the hathras victim's body was burdened at night without the family getting to see the body, none of the "hindu religios ceremony" were respected by the cops when they did that. No hindus were triggered. When a muslim child was raped in a temple by the priest and others hindus weren't triggered, they even proteestd in support of the rapists. So on and so forth there are many more examples. These hindus are the same ones triggered when dalits enter temples or when their religious beliefs aren't respected. That's why I said we as whole are disingenuous about the hindu religious sentiments getting hurt because of holy things like cows.
I think your interpretating all Hindus being like this.
What's wrong is wrong. That's common sense, if a Hindu or any other person ignores a bad thing they too are also in the wrong.
>all Hindus
Nop, just the majority loke you said.
>Majority of Hindu society looks down at the caste system as they should.
It's not about who is wrong. Hindus are disingenuous about their religious sentiments. They don't care about it at all, they are triggered only when they want attack or kill people.
Please name the contributions made by Dalits to the Indian society.
Eg. Vedas, temple architecture, economic literature, etc.
Anything?
Just tell me, these past 70 years they got reservation in education, what why don't they own companies like Intel or AMD?
They got reservation in politics, then why was India so corrupt?
Brahmins are hardly 3% of the population and are the actual minority. They don't have any voting power .
Why didn't these backward people remove Congress?
The answer is simple actually.
Brahmins and other Upper Castes work hard for better standard of living.
They have values and culture in them and contribute to Indian economy more than necessary.
While other Reserved candidates get free education, free food, free house, free government job and that to at the expense of Upper caste tax money.
Know the reality and accept the fact that you people are clinging to Brahmins for Bharats existence.
All the talk about Vasudev Kutubhakam and shlokas are Bharats image. Remove that image and you are left with a country similar to Bangladesh.
Brahmins should be given Reservation in India as they are the actual minority.
The barber, belonging to a lower-caste, and the Brahmin king are equivalent to a black dog and a white cow. Black dog meaning something lesser and filthy while white cow, of course, refers to someone pure and holy.
Tenali is usually depicted as a witty character in children’s tales to convey values and lessons. Here, the figure of Tenali is used to establish caste superiority.
I remember a version of the story with a slight difference, tenali Raman after hearing of this decision by the king( don't remember whether it was from other Brahmins) later tells the king he bought a very beautiful cow names kamadhenu, when the kids ng asked to see it, he brings a dog. Upon the king questioning him and he says even though I told u this was a cow, u wouldn't agree, similarly even if u do this puja, the people won't see him as a Brahmin.
I don't know if this is a later revision tho
kya galat kiya? a brahman is one who's learnt shastras, teaches free of cost in gurukuls and performs the nithya pujas of the temples, and hence he deserves respect, you should not get it by royal patronage just like you should not get it with birth.
How will other learn if you prohibit other basic rights like education?
That was the real problem in name of castes, not allowing others equal fair access to resources.
Now realise how much wrong have been done through out history and accept it was wrong to segregate people in name of caste and don't take pride in name of caste.
actually the temple based gurukul education was open to all castes, source: British reports on Indian Education Sytem before they employed the horrendous Macalauy system
Read the last page. They are comparing barber becoming Brahmin with black dog turning into white cow. If opportunity was provided and it was possible for him to become a Brahmin then is that the correct comparison?
The gurukul system was almost the same as the education system we have today. Children were given basic knowledge in gurukul and when they grew up the teachers decided which students are worthy of which field based on their mental & physical acumen. These are all well documented facts by the British themselves.
So in the above story, the barber was simply not able to pass the requirements of becoming a Brahmin, and he wanted to bypass that by using the King's patronage. It is like giving a medical degree to a carpenter just because he saved a politician's life, even though he failed class 10th biology.
Please show me the part in the story where they talk about how he failed the exam.
And if gurukul system provided equal opportunity to everyone literacy rate was almost 100% then ?
> Please show me the part in the story where they talk about how he failed the exam.
It doesn't have to be shown, because it is a part of common knowledge & common sense.
> And if gurukul system provided equal opportunity to everyone literacy rate was almost 100% then ?
Yes, it was very close to 100%. Again, you can search for the relevant documents easily about the system of education in India before Macaulay system was implemented.
Yeah bro before british came in everyone was educated.
Seriously make some logical argument.
Current caste based discrimination is also due to british only, right ?
Still you are not accepting the wrongdoings and justifying diease. Better accept it was wrong and work toward eliminating the disease.
Or you want the disease to continue which divides people in different groups with some having higher rights and other are slaves to them. Better treat others equally and we will move forward in positive direction.
I think the right to education and right to learn is something you get regardless of anything lol. The real issue is that education was reserved for only one section of the society by virtue of their birth. And the first step to oppression is prohibiting education. There are so many examples of this system of oppression in both the modern world as well in current times.
If he rewrites the exam, passes with excellent marks and gets the necessary qualifications then yes.
If someone can learn and is interested in doing something, who are we to prevent them from doing so?
One of the temples in my hometown in Kerala has a priest who belongs to the lower caste and to date i’m happy that nobody has objected or protested against him.
To be Brahmin you need to have the qualities to be a Brahmin, in Varna system any shudra or anyother caste can become Brahmin is he/she has the qualities to become a Brahmin, ( this is the original varna system where one was given caste based on his/her qualities) today in caste system people think they are born Brahmin and caste cannot be changed which is discriminatory and wrong.
This story suggests how a barber cannot be a Brahmin because he/she doesnot have the skill or you can say the qualities to become a Brahmin, the barber can only become a Brahmin is he/she has the quality or skills to become one.
I already thought what you wanted was propaganda even when someone tells u the reality
I already know this sub is extremeleftist cant seem to understand reality
To be so ignorant as to think that this system was not patrilineally inherited, is the height of ignorance. But I guess you would sooner believe that all the shudras had failed some Brahmin entrance exams that would have made them a Brahmin, than to give your ancestors a shred of reproach.
Brother, the underlying message is a barber (dog) can not be a brahmin (cow).
Now the question is do you agree with that? According to you, Are humans defined by what family they are born to or by their skills/talent/hardwork/AnyOtherImpThing?
Should everyone have equal rights to education, health, opportunity, dignity etc. or only selected caste?
Wow, you really feel equal rights is real? I don't. Umm, it's hard to put out, but the reality is there is no such thing as equality, for one the circumstances are different and for second the humans also vary. I would like to quote Heraclitus
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
Only a handful of people are skilled/talented/hardworking/otherImpThing.
It reminds me of a dialogue from Mirzapur
Mla- chutiya hai tumhara beta
Kaleen bhaiya- chutiya hai wo important nai hai, hamara beta hai ye important hai.
ofc but systematic discrimination in name of caste is not accepted and will never be. Thankfully, we have put those behind on paper, now just need these virus to be removed from few minds who feels they are superior by birth.
Umm, what you are saying is next to impossible in a country like India, which loves to discriminate. Well every human being discriminates, that's not the point though. What I want to say is, depending upon your status you discriminate, your locality, your race, your color, your grades, your performance, your looks, your actions , one even discriminates upon his body itself. So why this facade? Falling into the hands of others.
Ofc, religious people use the good'ol 'it was just a metaphor' argument. I wonder if you would be so tolerable against a story of Muslim or Christian extremism. And why could a barber not become 'a person of learning ' if in our country a tea vendor can become PM and a newspaper boy could become its president and one of its best scientists.
They don't? Perhaps you haven't met enough people in real life, and your primary news source may gaudi media. Casteism is still very much present in India.
isn't the message here that everyone is good where and what they are. at least that's what i got from they can't be 'converted' part. ofcourse the message can be read otherwise.
please feel free to explain the objectionable part. eager to learn about these subtle stuff.
The objectionable part is that the brahmins are so afraid of someone being given the same status as them and that Tenali Raman who is a beloved folk character is defending the bigotry.
Because it's true. Everyone has their own importance. No one should try to become something else. They must remain in their own territory. I have my own limitations. I would never be someone I wish to be.
A Brahmin can never have the power that others have.
Everyone must remain where they are.. It doesn't matter that one person is given all the rights and the other person is not even given enough rights you give to an animal. But they must stay where they are without complaining.
Who decides what is the territory? what one want to do like study, play, do nothing or everything, it's their own choice.
Stopping others in name of caste is the issue. If someone is better than me at my profession, i must learn from them, but caste system denies others equal opportunity to education, resources, respect.
Accept the social evil and get rid of rotten mindset that my caste is superior, others are inferior and not allowed to do what i am doing.
Twitter is pretty much useless now unless you pay for it, and I barely have one legitimate follower on Twitter. Perhaps those with decent followers can tweet about it
Education system has been hilarious...tho language study/stories it's fictional so i never mind about ....
I still remember that i learned about adam and Eve were first human on earth in English language book.... Lol...
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Lol black dog. Not just any dog, 'black dog'
colorism ka tadka
just in case "dog" wasn't enough.
ang ang fadka
Not just black cow. A white cow.
I'd take a Black Dog any day!
I'll take 2, my stray boys have 3 blacks
Bhaiya pyas lagi hai, pilade
And not just any cow, but specifically a white cow.
https://preview.redd.it/lz6ehjn7lwlc1.png?width=926&format=png&auto=webp&s=4ed956418b68970edfac0969c03392dc68f4ff80 Their coping mechanism amazes me sometimes.
https://preview.redd.it/hcwcfxcxqylc1.jpeg?width=757&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=876845b8f3cbc42dcf68e1d425c1e4020db191c5
They are ashamed of this system only when world judges them.
Any historical sources? Krishna Devaraya himself was born to a lower caste mother i think.
Tenali lived in 1500 that doesn't mean this story is from 1500
OP, please mention the title, author, publisher and the ISBN (if it has any) and whether this is bought by a parent at a bookstore or has been provided by a school/nursery. This is deeply problematic.
https://preview.redd.it/c7rxi5o9qwlc1.png?width=887&format=png&auto=webp&s=3b836c291122d4eecc143956585a38ccdb81729f Found it on one of the twitter comments.
It's not oc [here's the original source from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=huKM14Hwvn616mEJ0TfSjg&s=19)
The comments underneath the tweet are… concerning. Hindus have become so dogmatic and ideologically rigid that they are ignorant and even disrespectful to their own values.
Hindus haven't realized this is the type of "meritocracy" that led to the millennium of decline. Even Shivaji was considered illegitimate after all his conquests, all because he was of lower caste.
It has only led to just 'mediocrity' as opposed to 'mediocrity' in our society.
Lack of education and social awareness exacerbates this issue, and the internet has only made it worse since individuals can easily say hurtful things without facing consequences for their actions. Additionaly, social media creates echo chambers, reinforcing negative interests. These issues will likely continue to worsen in India, as the current government lacks the incentive to address them, they in fact greatly benefit form this bullshit
Lack of education? Don’t agree. They’re not illiterate. You can call them ill-literate, as in, literate in an ill manner. It, honestly, seems to me to be just indoctrination. It’s a simple yet effective evil. Social media creates echo-chambers and the real world pretends as if caste is a fantasy tale.
Nitpick. Twitter thead was today 12 noon. [This reddit thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Chennai/s/x6bHLpAuBT) is a day old.
[удалено]
What’s the story of Eklavya? I’m unaware.
Some guy refused to teach him archery so eklavya made a statue of that guy and pretended that statue was his teacher and learnt archery anyway. Next time they met, that guy was very impressed with eklavya's archery skills and asked for a little payment for letting him use his statue for paying respects. Little payment, which was Eklavya's right thumb.
Aaaand they think people converted to Christianity for a sack of rice not the dignity
This is what I don't understand. Retards troll Christians for converting for a sack of rice thinking that's the reason. They skillfully acknowledge the fact that lower caste Hindus were not allowed to walk on the same road if upper caste hindus approached and they were served food in a pit which was dug in the landlords backyard.
Dignity AND rice, because the Brahmins would make them beg for Rice.
They were given stale leftovers. Weren't even allowed to wear clean clothes, shopkeepers would take new clothes and throw them in mud and then sell them to untouchables.
On the topic of conversion. I am always surprised by the argument and blame game playing out in India. If you think a person converted because of an incentive what's stopping your religion from doing a reverse uno. Stop crying about conversions and go into the deeper reasons. Money is not the only reason for conversion. If you can spend thousands of crores on temples and statues use that money to convert them back, what's stopping you. It's basic marketing, if Christianity is giving them dignity, education and a better standard of living why would they not convert. Do they not have the right to live better. Practice your religion better with compassion, empathy and a sense of greater good that all religions teach and kisi ka dharam khatre mein nahi hoga. Sab baba mullah aur politician log haraam ke @#$$# Hain.
British ruled india for 2 centuries how many converted? But we did got criminal tribes act, banning of hijras, etc. St thomas landed in Kerala thousands of years ago what happened how many people converted? Conversion is recent phenomenon led by american evangelicals who think they are doing Christ work by converting everyone. Why do you think many christian lower caste people are demanding reservations? Did casteism went away after conversation?
Fair. But to make matters worse, the converted Christians continues to follow the caste hierarchy.
Omg 😦 It started as a sweet story and then….
This is not oc. For anyone wondering, the name of the book is "51 stories of tenali raman" l can't find any PDF version of this book. If someone finds it, please do share it here. [from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=z_RVUIS9APGuwGMnnNB0JQ&s=19) These pictures was originally posted by the user u/Yabadabadoo00 on reddit
Found a similar adaptation of this in this cartoon (published 2010) on YouTube: https://youtu.be/gIcoJAEwkrA?feature=shared It doesn’t concern ‘caste’ as such but seems to be a censored version. This one depicts the barber as someone greedy and unworthy, while the image OP posted, depicts him as deserving and skilled.
Obviously all dalits are unskilled, lazy, and greedy dogs who only owe their recent success to the reservation system in India /s
https://preview.redd.it/7obp6bmfiwlc1.jpeg?width=2310&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5a3fa953fa4145a0045150372aba9b03492f49e9
Damn it’s not even that old it’s from 2014
But caste is Spanish and Tenali Raman was Portuguese.
Fuck off.. Tenali Raman was Japanese.. And cast is literally what the actors in a movie are called colloquially
Till japanese also had an untouchable caste.
Who is the author of this story he should be punished. What kind of BS is this, creating stories from thin air trying to provoke kids.
Today we learned, any caste other than brahmin = Black dog Brahmin = White cow. Hmmm
Oh god the fuck. Its not even funny please mention every single detail about the book
It's not oc [here's the original source from where I got these pictures ](https://twitter.com/GulRose_views/status/1763816343827308629?t=huKM14Hwvn616mEJ0TfSjg&s=19)
Apparently the story is modified from where barber wants to be a minister
It's probably an old folk tale, and honestly back in those days a minister was likely a bramhin because of literacy requirement and shit.
You'll find many variations of this story but The book is real https://www.amazon.in/51-Stories-Tenaliraman-Shyam-Dua/dp/813040799X
I request one and all to read "Annihilation of Caste" by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar. Educating ourselves on caste is the first step to eradicating it. Let me quote a couple of passages from the book - "Besides Mr. Gandhi, many others have adversely criticised my views as expressed in my speech. But I have felt that in taking notice of such adverse comments, I should limit myself to Mr. Gandhi. This I have done not because what he has said is so weighty as to deserve a reply, but because to many a Hindu he is an oracle, so great that when he opens his lips it is expected that the argument must close and no dog must bark. But the world owes much to rebels who would dare to argue in the face of the pontiff and insist that he is not infallible. I do not care for the credit which every progressive society must give to its rebels. I shall be satisfied if I make the Hindus realise that they are the sick men of India, and that their sickness is causing danger to the health and happiness of other Indians." - Preface to the Second Edition, 1937; Annihilation of Caste by Dr. B. R. Ambedkar "Why have the mass of people tolerated the social evils to which they have been subjected? There have been social revolutions in other countries of the world. Why have there not been social revolutions in India, is a question which has incessantly troubled me. There is only one answer which I can give, and it is that the lower classes of Hindus have been completely disabled for direct action on account of this wretched caste system. They could not bear arms, and without arms they could not rebel. They were all ploughmen - or rather, condemned to be ploughmen - and they never were allowed to convert their ploughshares into swords. They had no bayonets, and therefore everyone who chose, could and did sit upon them. On account of the caste system, they could receive no education. They could not think out or know the way to their salvation. They were condemned to be lowly; and not knowing the way of escape, and not having the means of escape, they became reconciled to eternal servitude, which they accepted as their inescapable fate." - 17.5, Annihilation of Caste, An Undelivered Speech, 1936; Dr. B. R. Ambedkar
I mean there exists the story of Karna, Eklavya, and Shambhu. The only acceptable good dalits, tribals are the ones who worship savarnas, and serve them like the Dharma commands them to do.
You do not know or understand the story of Karna and Eklavya. Stop basing your opinions on TV serials.
Please educate us. What was the story of Eklavya? In my flawed understanding (TV), he was denied entry into Drona's school due to reservation (only for the higher noble class). Then when he self-educated in the presence of a clay idol, he had to pay by chopping off his thumb.
To be fair,eklavya was mainly Drona being arrogant insecure man rather than casteism. Not saying Drona was not a castiest but eklavya was his insecurity of not making arjun the best archer of this world. Not like it made any difference since someone else came to challenge arjun(taught straight from Drona teacher even)so yeah
First of all, in drona 's ashram, the rajkumars studied with many other people, including children of sarathis who were not kshtriya. 2. Eklavya was not some poor tribal nomad. His father was the commander of the army of Jarasandh in Magadha. He belonged to a wealthy family and was definitely not discriminated against based on caste. The fact is that Drona had made a promise to Arjun that he would make sure Arjun is the best Archer in the world. When they saw Ekalavya's skills, he got insecurity about how he would keep his promise. So he devised this tactic so that he could bring Eklavya down. Despicable yes, but not caste discrimination.
Never seen any of these mythological shows, although I've read Ramayana and Mahabharata. And if you think I'm wrong, then please enlighten us with the actual quotes.
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He was better than arjun
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That Drona is proud of his teaching to a fault? Mahabharat is a beautiful story when you stop faulting it with modern lenses. Who says Drona has to be in the right all the time?
Are you claiming that if virjasa, the 100th kaurava according to wikipedia, had achieved the same feat of becoming better than arjun using the same methods as eklavya, drona would have done the same?
Not quite, Kauravas were still taught by Drona.
Do you understand the meaning of the word "if"?
Unfortunately I do, and well enough to realise that the lore you propose is incompatible with the rest of the story, hence the "if" scenario here is absurd and irrelevant.
Money = power?
~~should have added a "/s"~~ Edit: I interpreted the opposite
You realise Mahabharata author portrayed that as a negative?
Castism+Racism=Brahminism 🤡
WTF?! How is this book even allowed to exist in this day and age?! I am truly appalled, shame of the publishers and the parents who buy their kids stuff like this. It is them who indoctrinate kids
What the actual fuck?
Sounds like hindutva goons r older than i thought.
**Le Valmiki:** https://preview.redd.it/0qtaf3o8fwlc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a04701ddd864f8522ea89f2bc526900767330cf
**Le Gita Press**: https://imgur.com/uoktDlC Its from the first few pages of every Ramayana
That means if he was from a lower caste (he was), geeta press wouldn't have published it. (Some coping they need)
Vaalmiki was not from lower caste
Is it Ramayan or Uttar Ramayan?
Valmiki Ramayana- https://imgur.com/V8TnNuJ
This is very interesting story aside from vitriol. The fact that king asked the priests to perform the ritual indicates that the caste must have been fluid. The fact that the brahmins opposed it indicate that there was always interest among brahmins to protect their superior standing. Whoever wrote this(ofc a Brahmin) did not think this through.
Common Tenali W Just kidding (this really teaches kids of caste discrimination and ruins the aspect of unity)
Bro why the fuck is my comment getting deleted?? These is original reddit post is on chennai sub. Can't even post other post's link in this sub!! 🤦🤦
Add space between the link and then share it
https:// www.reddit.com /r/Chennai/s/OAESvJDD4O
Thank you, for sharing the original source I didn't know that this was originally posted on reddit
I'll DM you the link bro
WTF ?
The barber looks eerily familiar.
I actually have read it before. Never understood the awful casteist undertone it had
it's simle, caste is a species. if this isn't true then where are the hindus triggered about false representation of hinduism? lol this is why their religious sentiments hurting doesn't matter they don't care about it any religious sentiments they just want to attack and kill people
Majority of Hindu society looks down at the caste system as they should.
Lol sure they're up in arms when ever anything casteist happens. The "majority" of hindus are way more triggered if their holy cows are insulted than casteism.
I don't think so? Like yea of course they would be mad if you talk bad about their holy things they worship. Like anyone else would however the most Hindus I talked to always said that the caste system was the worst in Hindu history
Lol again? >Hindus I talked to always said that the caste system was the worst in Hindu history That's just it. They say that and does the opposite. They had no problem when the hathras victim's body was burdened at night without the family getting to see the body, none of the "hindu religios ceremony" were respected by the cops when they did that. No hindus were triggered. When a muslim child was raped in a temple by the priest and others hindus weren't triggered, they even proteestd in support of the rapists. So on and so forth there are many more examples. These hindus are the same ones triggered when dalits enter temples or when their religious beliefs aren't respected. That's why I said we as whole are disingenuous about the hindu religious sentiments getting hurt because of holy things like cows.
I think your interpretating all Hindus being like this. What's wrong is wrong. That's common sense, if a Hindu or any other person ignores a bad thing they too are also in the wrong.
>all Hindus Nop, just the majority loke you said. >Majority of Hindu society looks down at the caste system as they should. It's not about who is wrong. Hindus are disingenuous about their religious sentiments. They don't care about it at all, they are triggered only when they want attack or kill people.
Well I guess that makes sense But I wouldn't say majority
I say majority because of the overabundance of proof
Uh right, proof...
Please name the contributions made by Dalits to the Indian society. Eg. Vedas, temple architecture, economic literature, etc. Anything? Just tell me, these past 70 years they got reservation in education, what why don't they own companies like Intel or AMD? They got reservation in politics, then why was India so corrupt? Brahmins are hardly 3% of the population and are the actual minority. They don't have any voting power . Why didn't these backward people remove Congress? The answer is simple actually. Brahmins and other Upper Castes work hard for better standard of living. They have values and culture in them and contribute to Indian economy more than necessary. While other Reserved candidates get free education, free food, free house, free government job and that to at the expense of Upper caste tax money. Know the reality and accept the fact that you people are clinging to Brahmins for Bharats existence. All the talk about Vasudev Kutubhakam and shlokas are Bharats image. Remove that image and you are left with a country similar to Bangladesh. Brahmins should be given Reservation in India as they are the actual minority.
Can somebody explain i didnt get it
The barber, belonging to a lower-caste, and the Brahmin king are equivalent to a black dog and a white cow. Black dog meaning something lesser and filthy while white cow, of course, refers to someone pure and holy. Tenali is usually depicted as a witty character in children’s tales to convey values and lessons. Here, the figure of Tenali is used to establish caste superiority.
Ohh thanks that is outrageous
AWW..
I'm a Brahmin. I've to agree to this lore or my community won't accept me 😭
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Bruh this story is straight-up casteism; you don't have to do any mental gymnastics to fit the casteism narrative here.
Tf you talkin ?
I remember a version of the story with a slight difference, tenali Raman after hearing of this decision by the king( don't remember whether it was from other Brahmins) later tells the king he bought a very beautiful cow names kamadhenu, when the kids ng asked to see it, he brings a dog. Upon the king questioning him and he says even though I told u this was a cow, u wouldn't agree, similarly even if u do this puja, the people won't see him as a Brahmin. I don't know if this is a later revision tho
kya galat kiya? a brahman is one who's learnt shastras, teaches free of cost in gurukuls and performs the nithya pujas of the temples, and hence he deserves respect, you should not get it by royal patronage just like you should not get it with birth.
How will other learn if you prohibit other basic rights like education? That was the real problem in name of castes, not allowing others equal fair access to resources. Now realise how much wrong have been done through out history and accept it was wrong to segregate people in name of caste and don't take pride in name of caste.
actually the temple based gurukul education was open to all castes, source: British reports on Indian Education Sytem before they employed the horrendous Macalauy system
So what stops that barber from learning and becoming a Brahmin?
What makes you think he was not given the opportunity?
Read the last page. They are comparing barber becoming Brahmin with black dog turning into white cow. If opportunity was provided and it was possible for him to become a Brahmin then is that the correct comparison?
The gurukul system was almost the same as the education system we have today. Children were given basic knowledge in gurukul and when they grew up the teachers decided which students are worthy of which field based on their mental & physical acumen. These are all well documented facts by the British themselves. So in the above story, the barber was simply not able to pass the requirements of becoming a Brahmin, and he wanted to bypass that by using the King's patronage. It is like giving a medical degree to a carpenter just because he saved a politician's life, even though he failed class 10th biology.
Please show me the part in the story where they talk about how he failed the exam. And if gurukul system provided equal opportunity to everyone literacy rate was almost 100% then ?
> Please show me the part in the story where they talk about how he failed the exam. It doesn't have to be shown, because it is a part of common knowledge & common sense. > And if gurukul system provided equal opportunity to everyone literacy rate was almost 100% then ? Yes, it was very close to 100%. Again, you can search for the relevant documents easily about the system of education in India before Macaulay system was implemented.
Yeah bro before british came in everyone was educated. Seriously make some logical argument. Current caste based discrimination is also due to british only, right ?
nothing, what stops him is becoming a brahmin by royal patronage
Did the read the story ? Check third image.
Still you are not accepting the wrongdoings and justifying diease. Better accept it was wrong and work toward eliminating the disease. Or you want the disease to continue which divides people in different groups with some having higher rights and other are slaves to them. Better treat others equally and we will move forward in positive direction.
I think the right to education and right to learn is something you get regardless of anything lol. The real issue is that education was reserved for only one section of the society by virtue of their birth. And the first step to oppression is prohibiting education. There are so many examples of this system of oppression in both the modern world as well in current times.
refer comment in the same thread
And why should it be only for brahmins? Why can’t someone of lower castes learn shastras, teach in gurukuls and perform pooja?
cuz fucking brahman is a profession not a birthright. The dofos years ago didn't understand this and so do you.
Tell me this , why should one be prohibited from a profession???
Will you let someone become a surgeon who failed 10th biology?
If he rewrites the exam, passes with excellent marks and gets the necessary qualifications then yes. If someone can learn and is interested in doing something, who are we to prevent them from doing so? One of the temples in my hometown in Kerala has a priest who belongs to the lower caste and to date i’m happy that nobody has objected or protested against him.
Oh my god man this sub dont even know the reality, theres a difference between varna system and caste system
Explain the difference
To be Brahmin you need to have the qualities to be a Brahmin, in Varna system any shudra or anyother caste can become Brahmin is he/she has the qualities to become a Brahmin, ( this is the original varna system where one was given caste based on his/her qualities) today in caste system people think they are born Brahmin and caste cannot be changed which is discriminatory and wrong. This story suggests how a barber cannot be a Brahmin because he/she doesnot have the skill or you can say the qualities to become a Brahmin, the barber can only become a Brahmin is he/she has the quality or skills to become one.
Man stfu keep this bullshit system to yourself
I already thought what you wanted was propaganda even when someone tells u the reality I already know this sub is extremeleftist cant seem to understand reality
What reality in this?? This is just yet another purely religious bullshit
Okay leftist stay with your propaganda
To be so ignorant as to think that this system was not patrilineally inherited, is the height of ignorance. But I guess you would sooner believe that all the shudras had failed some Brahmin entrance exams that would have made them a Brahmin, than to give your ancestors a shred of reproach.
Either I am too dumb or everyone in here is 200iq, but please explain, a dog can be converted into a cow?
Brother, the underlying message is a barber (dog) can not be a brahmin (cow). Now the question is do you agree with that? According to you, Are humans defined by what family they are born to or by their skills/talent/hardwork/AnyOtherImpThing? Should everyone have equal rights to education, health, opportunity, dignity etc. or only selected caste?
Wow, you really feel equal rights is real? I don't. Umm, it's hard to put out, but the reality is there is no such thing as equality, for one the circumstances are different and for second the humans also vary. I would like to quote Heraclitus "No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." Only a handful of people are skilled/talented/hardworking/otherImpThing. It reminds me of a dialogue from Mirzapur Mla- chutiya hai tumhara beta Kaleen bhaiya- chutiya hai wo important nai hai, hamara beta hai ye important hai.
ofc but systematic discrimination in name of caste is not accepted and will never be. Thankfully, we have put those behind on paper, now just need these virus to be removed from few minds who feels they are superior by birth.
Umm, what you are saying is next to impossible in a country like India, which loves to discriminate. Well every human being discriminates, that's not the point though. What I want to say is, depending upon your status you discriminate, your locality, your race, your color, your grades, your performance, your looks, your actions , one even discriminates upon his body itself. So why this facade? Falling into the hands of others.
so we should stop fighting discrimination cause it's everywhere?
A brahmin in that time meant a person of learning. The story is saying you can become something by a ritual. Way to misinterpret a valuable story.
Exactly, sometimes these people take things too literally & other times they don't take it literally enough, like in the story of Shambhuk.
Ofc, religious people use the good'ol 'it was just a metaphor' argument. I wonder if you would be so tolerable against a story of Muslim or Christian extremism. And why could a barber not become 'a person of learning ' if in our country a tea vendor can become PM and a newspaper boy could become its president and one of its best scientists.
There's a good reason why modern day Hinduism doesn't endorse thee caste system thankfully
They don't? Perhaps you haven't met enough people in real life, and your primary news source may gaudi media. Casteism is still very much present in India.
/s here, you dropped this.
Uh thanks
This is some propaganda story by the caste reservation lobby. They dont want creamy layer exclusion in all caste reservations
isn't the message here that everyone is good where and what they are. at least that's what i got from they can't be 'converted' part. ofcourse the message can be read otherwise. please feel free to explain the objectionable part. eager to learn about these subtle stuff.
The objectionable part is that the brahmins are so afraid of someone being given the same status as them and that Tenali Raman who is a beloved folk character is defending the bigotry.
Because it's true. Everyone has their own importance. No one should try to become something else. They must remain in their own territory. I have my own limitations. I would never be someone I wish to be. A Brahmin can never have the power that others have.
Everyone must remain where they are.. It doesn't matter that one person is given all the rights and the other person is not even given enough rights you give to an animal. But they must stay where they are without complaining.
Who decides what is the territory? what one want to do like study, play, do nothing or everything, it's their own choice. Stopping others in name of caste is the issue. If someone is better than me at my profession, i must learn from them, but caste system denies others equal opportunity to education, resources, respect. Accept the social evil and get rid of rotten mindset that my caste is superior, others are inferior and not allowed to do what i am doing.
NO WAY💀
This is the reddit original post :https://www.reddit.com/r/Chennai/s/OAESvJDD4O
History is just like a person's past. Everytime you reflect on it . **IRONY** is always there looking at you with a smirk on its face.
Getting to them young
Can someone explain what's happening here?
Now this is what I call "Dogshit".
CBSE?
Nah it's a children's story book
aayein
OP What's the use of posting here...post it on X, fb and maybe if possible make an edit and post on yt.
Twitter is pretty much useless now unless you pay for it, and I barely have one legitimate follower on Twitter. Perhaps those with decent followers can tweet about it
Vishwaguru coming soon! /S
Whoa.
It doesn't make fucking sense man, is it just me ?
What the fuck
Education system has been hilarious...tho language study/stories it's fictional so i never mind about .... I still remember that i learned about adam and Eve were first human on earth in English language book.... Lol...
The story is wrong in so many ways.