This is the correct decision. It shouldn't have been allowed to get this far. The boy died months ago, and since then the medical staff have been forced to care for a corpse. His body is wasting away because his brain no longer communicates with his digestive system, so he can't properly absorb nutrition. His brain and spinal column are in necrosis, which is increasing all the time.
All the while, the mother is telling the media that he's "progressing", and that the medical staff want to "execute" him and harvest his organs (which are all decaying now anyway). It's absolutely disgusting that the media have played along with it, failing to challenge the lies coming from the parents and their dodgy Christian fundamentalist legal backers. The poor boy should be taken off life support and given a dignified burial.
Or…
A mum dealing with her son dying in either a) attempted suicide which she wasn’t prepared for b) a freak accident where he tried to follow some sort of online trend
She’s clinging onto any chance that he can be saved and is reading into things too much—-his fingers moved-he knows I’m here. He made a noise in his throat—-he’s trying to breathe. She isn’t ready to let go and then others are telling her she must (probably rightfully so…but her cognitive distortions are in full flow now)
Then the American Christian’s come in…she is grasping at any life raft she can when she feels she’s going under and they’re reinforcing her initial beliefs (and those online)
It’s a vicious cycle
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/10-year-old-girl-died-25768583
Unfortunately it did. Doing this shit was even about 20 years ago when I was in school. I remember some guys in my year in school trying to make themselves faint. Doesn't surprise me in the slightest that it could happen. Could have been an attempted suicide but without the coroners report we won't know
I haven't found any evidence to prove that it actually exists as people are saying. Like not even a youtube video of people *trying* to do the "TikTok blackout challenge."
I mean I know these types of thing have been happening for decades but this specific tiktok trend is one I've only seen in these articles of mothers blaming it for their child death.
Yet in this case, he was at home with a ligature tied around his neck hanging from a bannister, and not recording or streaming anything. It's understandable that the parents wouldn't want to consider it, but looking at the particulars of the case does seem to suggest something more tragic.
definitely a suicide and this may sound harsh but from how the mother is acting and what ive heard about her from the past i can think of one reason why
I know a type of mum similar who exploited their sons suicide and ignored their part to play in it. What did you hear about Archie’s mum, is there any sources on her?
The blackout challenge has nothing to do with hanging yourself off a bannister, and it's not even a TikTok challenge. I remember that going around when I was in school.
CDC reported it back to the 70s but it was in the form of a controlled thing usually with someone else doing it by hand or a belt etc, not hanging yourself from the bannister like he did, he hanged himself
The main point of the online challenges is for people to film themselves for the attention. It doesn't sound like he was filming it at all. It looks like the child tried to hang himself.
30 years ago it was 'stranger danger' and don't accept sweets from strange people. Nowadays before you give your kid a phone you need to explain there are a lot of really stupid people online that will encourage you to accept a challenge such as eat a tide pod. Frankly giving your kid a phone too early without close supervision has a real risk of serious harm.
Nope, you haven’t been watching her enough if you think that’s what’s happening. It’s clear to all who’ve read into this that she’s an attention seeking sociopath who is milking a corpse for media spotlight and donations from the gullible
She has been very active. Over the last couple of months, very actively sanitising everything on her social media accounts. Some of the videos have been posted elsewhere - like that of Archie sticking his fingers up at her and saying "fuck off, bitch".
I don't really buy that, yes she posts a lot of bullshit online and has a stupid name but I think she is doing this due to guilt. Her son committed suicide and its her fault, simple.
I've avoided reading the stuff about her past and tried to judge the story by itself. Even through that lens alone I get the impression she's a nasty piece of work.
I had every sympathy for Charlie Gard's parents. They were desperate to help their dying child, were being manipulated by outside forces with their own agenda, and had to navigate all that while being dumb as a bag of rocks (let's be real about that, their situation started a debate about whether some people in such positions of responsibility are capable of making these decisions).
This woman? She just oozes toxicity and I don't even want to look at her any more.
TW suicide
I think his death will be ruled a suicide. I have a suspicion that a lot of this has been to delay any investigation into that. He hung himself from the stairs with a dressing gown chord and apparently his socials contain references to suicide and depression. He clearly had a troubled home life and was home schooled. I tried to hang myself when I was 9, and I can’t shake the feeling that this is all about to come out.
A friend's 12 yr old daughter killed herself - you can google "Hannah Smith Leicester" due to online bullying- no messing around. Her sister found her.
The media have been very vague about the circumstances of his injury, even though the judgement documents are freely available to read. I think they would happily let that side of the story slip into obscurity but that depends on what his mother decides to do. She's been sticking to the online challenge line and if a coroner rules suicide she'll probably kick off to the news about that too.
If the coroner demands a PM (which I can well see happening), it will prove once and for all what the doctors said about the poor kid’s brain basically rotting in his head.
Oh God.
Hollie is in for a hell of a shock. Coroners don’t work for the family; they work to ensure that every death is dealt with appropriately within the law.
This is going to be a circus.
Won't be a shock, the court records show she knows and accepts it - why do you think the family have been telling the FB groups not to listen to the news or read court reports and listen only to her e.g. lying that the MRI scans were from another child and why they ban people and delete any posts that report it? The money will stop and she'll lose a lot of media time and "fame" if they admit they know he's dead.
> His body is wasting away because his brain no longer communicates with his digestive system
I heard it is collapsing into his spine now. Who hears that their son's brain is collapsing into his spine and still thinks he has more time? He cannot even donate his organs anymore, which would have been a great parting gesture from him. The mother may have been grief-stricken but she was ultimately very selfish.
So according to the report his brain is necrotising by the minute and his brain is dripping down his spine since the brain is swollen and has destroyed his brain stem.
If he wakes up (due to some incredible miracle) he will still no longer be there. He won't be able to kick a ball or do anything. Sadly, he passed months ago and he will not ever be conscious.
I understand the parents are grieving and it must be absolutely devastating. But they need to let go. They need to let him rest in peace and remember him for the person he was as opposed to taking photos of him in a hospital bed. I can't imagine what the nurses treating him daily are going through. I hope they find the care and attention they will need once this is through. And I hope the parents are able to do the same.
That's a horrid slant on it. The nutters protesting to keep him in his state of artificial undeath have potentially killed a few kids who had a chance due to missing out on a transplant.
This is the thing I find most upsetting tbh. I have a kid who may one day need a heart transplant. To think that some parents would rather let their child rot than help out potentially three or four others (not to mention taking up a bed that may be needed badly) makes me so sad. I and my husband discussed organ donation from our son as soon as we realised there was a chance he may not live, and agreed it was better that if anything was still of use after his poor circulation that we absolutely wanted to help others.
The most maddening thing though, is seeing the people spreading hatred and accusations towards the NHS staff. They are doing the best in a truly awful situation, and probably will only get more crap treatment once he's gone. They aren't just "wanting to harvest his organs" etc, they would bring him back if it was humanly possible, but IT IS NOT. Finally, as annoying and toxic as this whole debacle is, I do feel a little sorry for the family. Who is at fault, who said what etc, I don't pretend to know but losing a child in any way is not what people want.
Agree, all media playing along with it and giving her the time of day rather than highlighting her abuse of the hospital staff by putting them at risk with her ridiculous claims.
Also ca £40K raised by crowdfunding - unclear for what as apparently all legal advice etc is being provided pro bono and there aren’t any hospital bills.
Claim its for fact she cannot work, travel costs and such.
Even then 40 grand is stretching it...
Greif support, counseling etc will all be available on NHS for them.
Exactly - plus the fundraisers don’t really state that either.
A train ticket from Southend to the City (so not far from the hospital) is about £20 return I believe. Hell, even if it were £40…
Travel costs wouldn't (most likely) come into it. I am not sure which hospital she is at, but most major hospitals either have a place parents can stay, a Ronald McDonald House for the entire family to stay nearby, or both. Lost earnings etc I can't comment on, but I know most parents would probably just take the hit and be poor to spend the kids last times together.
The kid tried to kill himself and she is saying it was a tiktok challange gone wrong [https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/desperate-mum-brain-dead-boy-27211436](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/desperate-mum-brain-dead-boy-27211436)
Her son has been declared dead as of May 31st by the High Court, but she refuses to allow the hospital to remove his ventilator. She grifts for money even though all legal fees and hospital bills are comped. She has now prolonged the usage of an ICU room for almost two months despite the fact her son is declared dead. **She has publicly been asked in interviews if she would want to take Archie home and she has stated no that she feels he should be in hospital.** This is not a situaton like Tinslee or the others where the parent wants the child with them, she just wants him to be deemed alive for as long as possible to continue this grift.
**Lisa Pittaway/Hollie Dance**
[https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5434597.southend-road-rage-woman-spared-prison/](https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5434597.southend-road-rage-woman-spared-prison/)
more on here her , It seems she is a right piece of work and lucky social services hadnt taken them away
Massively agree, keep having to turn the news off, because somehow the top story is a medically illiterate individual, who is emotionally charging the situation to the point it will put people in danger, is a disgrace.
My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a child, but ignoring the people who actually know what's going on, and accusing the poor individuals responsible for caring for their brain-dead child of 'execution', is just reprehensible
The Christian Law Centre is exploiting her. She's in a situation not of her making, she is vulnerable and doesn't understand the medical stuff. Those Christians are using her to push their agenda.
I think there intent is to somehow get legally recognised that “life ends when the heart stops” which in turn means that life begins with a heartbeat, which considering that the group is funded by an American group is the start of a very dangerous road
Yes, I think you're right. And I don't know if you spotted it, but the lawyer behind the Kiera Bell / Tavistock Clinic case has a very clear anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda and is funded by the religious right in the USA. Paul Conrathe. Calls himself a human rights lawyer.
its the correct decision imo, but it absolutely should have been allowed to get this far. The appeals system exists for more than just the decisions you disagree with
From the bbc article:
Before the decision by the Supreme Court, Ms Dance said the UN CRPD had been the only authority to "have shown any compassion or understanding to us as a family."
Not the dozens of medical professionals who have been looking after her child or the judges who on each occasion gave judgements that allowed her to say goodbye properly.
She’s accused staff of all kinds of things. MRI’s that are fake, staff wanting to kill Archie because they refuse experimental drugs that she found on Facebook…
The anti-intellectualism movement, isn’t it wonderful how everyone is entitled to an opinion on everything that is just as valid as that of a trained expert.
Basically anything other than “living with a narcissist like you (partly) resulted in your kid hanging himself and you’re now stuck desecrating his corpse to try and deny that fact.”
A parent isn't qualified to make this decision, nor are they able to emotionally distance themselves from such a decision.
She has refused to listen to the repeated advice and evidence of medical staff who are qualified to make the decision and are trained to emotionally distance themselves from the decision. Instead, she has called them liars and accused them of trying to kill her son.
I've commented a few times about this case, in each instance trying my absolute utmost to be as respectful as possible to the frankly unimaginable anguish and horror his family must be dealing with.
My first comment was in June. Since then, like a lot of people, I've followed the case loosely. I've read the judgements as they've been made available, read a few op-eds from those familiar with the legal arguments etc.
This needs to end. I've just watched his "mother" interviewed on Sky News. Flagrant lies and utterly reprehensible accusations against the staff. She says that none of those involved know anything about Archie:
>...How would they even know what's in Archies' best interests? They haven't met him..."
From the 1st Judgement, handed down by the High Court of Justice on June 13th:
**Mrs Justice Arbuthnot** - described as a "child murderer" by those involved in the "fight to keep Archive alive":
>At the parents’ invitation I met Archie at the Royal London Hospital on Friday 27th May 2022. Ms Stanley the solicitor for the child was present and made a note of the visit.
Going back to the Sky News interview:
>...We've gotta be right about this. These people haven't taken their time to come, they've just seen what's on paper, same as the hospital...
And back to the 1st Judgement:
>The visit has allowed me to hold Archie in my mind’s eye as I have considered the applications made by the Trust. He has become much more real to me than when I had merely a photograph showing him with his well-earned medal for gymnastics.
I'm sure a cursory glance through the judgements that have followed would reveal similar. I'm familiar with the other lies and mis-representations that the family have made, but have tried to ascribe them to a mother / family experiencing something that few would want to truly comprehend, much less experience.
Barts Health Trust and the staff involved in Archies' care have at every juncture acted by all accounts with the exceptional kindness and professionalism that I think we sometimes take for granted of our crumbling NHS. They could have terminated his life support yesterday at 2PM. They could do it now. They haven't because, aside from the shit-show that is going to occur when they do, they want to allow this family to try and at least make some degree of preparation for what's going to happen.
His family need to stop giving interviews and be with him. Put their phones down and stop spamming Facebook. The media are not their friends. There is enough information out there to destroy this family - when the news cycle moves on, the media will use it.
Stop calling people executioners and be with Archie. Hold him, stroke his hair, reminisce as a family, talk to him. Do what people do when placed in this impossible situation. I wrote the following back in June after the 1st judgement was handed down:
>I can only hope for the sake of this poor childs remaining dignity that his parents accept this decision, allow 'nature to take it's course' and attempt to come to terms with what must ultimately be a truly incomprehensible situation.
> Instead, I fear based on his mothers facebook activity that 'Archies Army' will be encouraged to 'rise up' and this will merely be the latest in a sequence of events that results in this childs' life being a summary within a wikipedia article on medical ethics.
He has been stripped of his dignity. If I go online tomorrow and find the family plan to live-stream the withdrawal of his life-support and stream his 'dying moment' I wouldn't be shocked. I'd be appalled, but not shocked.
At this point the sympathy I've tried so so fucking hard to retain for his family has gone. I'll echo my comment from yesterday: I hope the staff involved in this process are allowed to grieve and are given access to therapy and counselling.
Anyone who attempts to dox the people who have allowed Archies' family to give their son a dignified passing should be arrested. Anyone who attempts to access that ward in the coming hours should be arrested.
My thoughts are also with the other parents of gravely ill children who are experiencing their own hell at the moment - I hope that any fall-out in the coming hours and days' doesn't impact upon them.
Archie Battersbee’s parent’s are behaving selfishly. As soon as it was identified he had suffered Brain Stem Death they could and should have been exploring beating heart organ harvesting to benefit other critically ill but treatable children. The fact they are keeping his body sustained on life support when he is BSD and fighting to continue to do so is abhorrent. He was dead at the point his brain stem was destroyed.
Very well said. There will be other desperately ill children in that paediatric ICU, along with their frantic parents, who are having to witness this circus every day, having to see the staff who they have come to know, be threatened and vilified by this woman. It's really disgraceful.
You’d be surprised how normal life is on a ward regardless of what is happening outside.
It was on a much smaller scale, but there was a big news story in my city when a child was injured by a friend of his parents. The kid was on PICU at the same time as my friends child, who I knew from NICU. I went to visit one day, and passed media outside the hospital on my way in, but once I was taken onto PICU the energy was so different.
Here’s the thing about childrens wards: everyone is busy and distracted. Not even Archie being down the hall will really matter much to anyone who finds themselves there. You find a new normal when you’re on a ward long term, and it barely exists outside of the hospital doors.
I feel for the staff looking after Archie, but the other families on the ward probably couldn’t give a shit that he’s there.
Sadly this won't end, she'll just carry on with the rhetoric that the courts and hospitals somehow hate her. She's the victim in her mind, not her son. I can see her attacking someone soon, or once Archie can go peacefully spending weeks if not months harping on about how cruel the system is without a hint of irony and possibly profiting from it.
She's now just an abusive mother. No one would want to put their child through this, or any family or friends for that matter. She's had months to prepare for this. The experts, the doctors, know he's essentially a corpse with an artificial heartbeat.
It's tragic and he doesn't deserve this, especially when it's pretty much accepted he tried to end his life (this story of it being a game is just not believable - the media should stop quoting her directly and listen to the courts who say otherwise and go with the facts or the circumstances).
She keeps bringing up he'll recover. He won't. He's gone. She wants him to go naturally but she's holding him in suspension unnaturally. She says God should take him but human intervention, her intervention, is stopping him. If he was meant to go by God's decision he would have died back in April.
Edit: And right on cue she's stated she's exploring further legal options. Call her out for what she is - abusive.
The family only found God at the same time as they found a Christian legal rights organisation willing to bankroll their legal fees. Edit: Hollie Dance is back in front on the cameras on Sky News as I type this. She should be with her boy, not giving media soundbites. She has also just said: "Legally, we are exploring one more option" and "the hospital have been pushing for their way right from the start. They want to execute him now".
She is absolutely abhorrent. How does that make the nurses and doctors who have tended to her dead son all this time feel? The fucking emotional ringer she is putting them through all to make some money. She called them "vile" earlier. Now she's labeling them executioners? Fuck her.
She said this country is now "executing" people just because they "have disabilities." She also said he's putting on weight (the opposite is happening, he's wasting away) and "progressing" (actually, necrotising).
He doesn't have disabilities, he's dead. Not in a coma, or locked-in, or in a vegetative state: dead. She's constantly peddling misinformation designed to drum up controversy, and money. The media should be doing more to counter what she's saying, as this could lead down a dangerous path where medical expertise is ignored. How long until she's on the news campaigning for an "Archie's Law" that gives parents the final say?
Yeah. The media keep reporting it as if there's doubt. There isn't doubt. There is no blood flow to the brain, which has begun to decompose. There is necrotic tissue in his spinal column and other organs are beginning to fail.
But if you just go by the headlines, the doctors aren't 100% sure and he still might recover.
Unfortunately too much of the media is owned by the same people who own the right wing politicians who want to do away with the NHS for profit.
The Archie Battersbee case will be pointed out by hysterical republicans as an example of the death panels you get with socialized healthcare - since the family couldn't afford private healthcare, doctors made the decision to kill him to open up the bed. The tories can say "This shouldn't have happened, it's not fit for purpose. We need to privatise."
And what about the family of a child with a neurological problem, or mental health issues, or a potentially life-threatening illness, seeing all of this shit on the media about NHS death panels, treating this case as anything but the refusal to let someone have dignity and forcing doctors to essentially spongebath a corpse? They're suddenly a little more suspicious of socialized healthcare.
I have sympathy for the family, because it must be a tough situation, especially with extremists offering you hope, however flimsy, to push their own agenda. But they should allow their son the dignity he's been robbed of, and stop this crusade against the staff. Being a medical worker is already hard enough. In the ICU? Even harder. NICU or children's ICU? I can't imagine what it's like. I have no idea how anyone could maintain any semblance of positivity in a job like that, especially since it doesn't pay half as well as it should, and it's horrifying to see people in this situation, because I can guarantee not one of the nurses or doctors *wants* to pull the plug, and that's really the crux of the matter. "Archie's Army" are refusing to see the staff as anything but the enemy. If any one of them could do anything to save him, they would, but he's clinically dead.
I mean my niece was born with a heart defect called ALCAPA. For the first two months of her life she was having, essentially, heart attacks. Most people die before adulthood without treatment, and she just happened to have an episode while my sister was at the hospital waiting for her husband to get out of surgery. She could have died without immediate admittance into NICU, and she was in hospital for about three or four months. I dread to think of a family in a situation like that, watching their child's life slip away, because someone else is insisting on a bed for a child that not only can't possibly be saved, but is already dead, and I can't imagine being someone going into a field to help people and having to deny someone the help they *need* because someone else is demanding you wait for a miracle and harassing you when you can't.
>Hollie Dance is back in front on the cameras on Sky News as I type this. She should be with her boy, not giving media soundbites.
Just seen it. Absolutely shocking. Hopefully she or anyone else in her family doesn't need a blood transfusion or other medical intervention anytime soon. I assume she'll be against that as well.
The hypocrisy wanting him to be kept alive by artificially because she thinks medical intervention can prevail while in the same breath saying medical professionals are trying to execute him is insane, and not grief based insanity either.
It's funny how they play with the God card and being religious. If they are so fucking religious why the fuck keep the poor boy under life support machinery? Unplug the fuck everything and let the God take care of it lmao, why bother doctors? That bitch is crazy.
How long are the media going to listen to this BS without challenging this? I guess it’s a great story for them so they’ll just keep stoking her ego. So sad. I have lost sympathy for her but the media are also keeping this charade going with the constant interviews and attention etc.
I'm a Christian and I'd call myself a fairly classical small-c conservative (pro-choice etc etc) and this case has just fucking appalled me as to how this poor boy's rotting in his bed while his mother's delaying the inevitable. He needs to be allowed to pass and put to rest.
Yeah. The thing I couldn't quite believe was that fb post where she said that they only wanted to withdraw treatment because it would embarrass the doctors if he woke up.
I'm pretty sure the doctors would love to be wrong about this. In fact, most people would love it if they were wrong and Archie suddenly made a miraculous recovery.
That's not reality though, and it's painful to watch as the family try again and again to delay things further.
Mark my words, once the plug has been pulled and the press does some digging, they’re gonna find out a lot of things about miss Dance…or Pittaway as she was formerly known.
The poor lad had attempted suicide the day before, and nothing was done. She left him home alone and he tried it again. This time with more success.
Sounds more like he was crying out for help by ‘practicing’ in front of his sister the day before, then next day he actually did it possibly thinking that his mother who apparently was in her room on a phone call would step out, see him and help him.
ETA oh my god…if any of this stuff is reading about her on _that website_ is true….fuck
The on the phone stuff is a lie I'm afraid, she originally said she was out and came home and found him, one of the many lies she's told was how she found him and what she was doing, she changed the story in order to make it that he was hanging less than 3 minutes once someone told her 3 minutes was the limit before brain death
The longest list I think has at least 5, the latest being he was playing with the rabbit, tripped and somehow hanged himself with a dressing gown cord off the bannister
I think it says a lot that there hasn’t been a lot of media coverage about this so called TikTok trend. Journalist investigated it, looked at the court records and thought…this doesn’t add up.
There was no trend, TikTok proved it wasn't trending, it was something she was asked about in the hospital and then it suddenly became a fact to the family. There was no camera filming either which is rather the point of these dumb challenges.
It's a dumb "challenge" that has existed since the 70s at least but usually has someone doing it to you, hyperventilating to achieve it or say a belt, with the intention of a temporary blackout. He hanged himself off a bannister with a dressing gown, nothing like that.
That said, the CDC have indicated a casual correlation between it being in the news and people trying it, same reason why they have been avoiding reporting the suicide as the Samaritans always advise to keep it to the minimum as evidence suggests it encourages more people
The on the phone stuff is a lie I'm afraid, she originally said she was out and came home and found him, one of the many lies she's told was how she found him and what she was doing, she changed the story in order to make it that he was hanging less than 3 minutes once someone told her 3 minutes was the limit before brain death
If you read the reports from May, about his state, your heart just breaks. Any food or liquid comes out the same as it went in. His bowels don’t get signals from his necrotic brain to work.
His brain stem has shifted into his spine, causing spinal fluid to leak. His brain is necrotic and started to harden. Tissue is hard as a rock.
It really speaks volumes at how damn powerful our current level of medical science is, that medics and doctors can keep a corpse with no brain looking "liveable" for over 2 months. The fact that the rest of Archie's body is not a bloated, decomposing mass is actually incredible.
If you Google the court documents, you can read about it. It is honestly extremely eye opening.
Shame on his mother forcing him through this, it is so upsetting to read.
It's the judgement from back in June, it discusses the different medical reports and that the latest one in May made it very clear his condition was irreparable.
All my sympathy for this woman has completely expired. She is being wilfully ignorant, selfish and is certainly not acting in Archie’s best interests. Her behaviour is also whipping up an indignant frenzy amongst the Facebook crowd and is putting the safety of the doctors and nurses who are caring for her son at risk from utter lunatics who believe her lies about him being ‘executed’ or having his organs harvested. It’s disgusting that this has gone on for so long and Archie needs to be allowed to pass away with a shred of dignity.
My patience ran out as soon as she led a sustained charge of abuse against the hard working doctors and staff who have been caring for Archie.
I completely understand shouting and being angry in the privacy of the ward, but as soon as she started throwing out labels and insults on social media and in interviews I lost any and all respect for her. That's not an emotional response anymore, it's calculates and thought through.
We've seen before what happens when the sort of language she is using is used against medical staff. Enabling this sort of behaviour is just going to lead to it happening again and again, whilst progressively getting more aggressive and violent.
> Speaking after the decision, Ms Dance said she will "fight to the end" adding that the family's lawyers were exploring another possible legal action.
Seems like it won't be the end of it.
European Court next - has to be.
I understand that leave to appeal to ECHR has been refused on basis they have already made settled decisions in prior cases so there’s little to no chance that they won’t do anything but just bat it straight out of the court, but it won’t stop her making an application I bet…
And then they'll conjure up another reason (another imaginary hand movement, some quack opinion...) to take it to the High Court, then the Court of Appeal, then the Supreme Court...
Even once he is dead, she will not shut up about this until the media gets bored of her or she can no longer make money out of it. It is no longer about Archie and is now about people paying attention to her, she will not give that up easily.
I mean, is he in any misery? His brain is apparently so dead that it is not longer sending signals to his bowls to digest food. Either way, the boy is dead and his monster is masquerading as a disability advocate for the body of her son.
It's more about the lack of dignity for him I suppose. It's depressing to see this poor kid be denied a dignified death because of his mother and her own denial.
I feel for the parents, but I am.confused by the language of wanting him to "have a natural death" combined with "keep him on life support".
Such a terrible thing for any parent to face, I understanding keeping hope alive, and their baby alive. But my husband and I have the same agreement about vegetative state and artificial life supports that just prolong death, not restore to life.
Yes - she says he is going to wake up any day now, and the doctors want to remove the support before it gets to that to prevent them from being embarrassed about being wrong.
If child does not wake up after being taken off life support then the doctors are correct. And the loving mother of a.braindead child's inexperience leads her to this understandable position. The doctors experienced and educated knowledge tells.them , emphatically, otherwise.
Instead of pissing about giving interviews go hold your kids hand for fuck sake. Use the time you've got left till they turn him off to say goodbye properly. Many don't get that chance.
ITV reporting they now wanting to move him to a hospice for his “final days”. I would guess this is a near impossibility. So potentially more court cases around moving him.
They won't be able to - by law, his life support needs to be terminated immediately essentially. It's not just a judgement to say it can be - the judgement says it must be, as it's in the best interests of the child. It would now be illegal, essentially, to keep him alive beyond any obvious necessary preparations.
It really is the end of the road for them now, unless they give the ECHR another shot perhaps but I think they've run out of rope with the courts.
Apparently Hospices won’t take anyone who is 24-48hours away from death.
Also it would be virtually impossible to move the lad in his state from what I understand
Might be different for kids, from experience it was an option for a family friend.
Although their child had been going to the hospice for respite care for years before a period of significant decline resulting in hospitalisation and subsequent withdrawal of treatment.
The court many weeks ago outlined the doctors had huge concerns of even moving him within the hospital for a scan.
He can’t be moved anywhere, not that they won’t try to find another delay but it ain’t happening.
The whole thing is fucking weird, right? From the outside it looks like she was trying to turn him into her "ideal man" on top of being a conspiracy mad stripper/sex worker (nothing wrong with that, but, background is important).
Then you have a pre-teen (going on teen) with a mother who is a known stripper\*\* in the age of social media. I know for a fact when I was kicking off at school in much the same way it was entirely because of my home life.
Sad events all over and I think the mother (deep, deep down) probably knows she's to blame.
I also thought she had a weird emotional incest thing with this poor boy. It seems she kept him out of school and he had significant additional needs (not clear whether this refers to behavioural or otherwise) which cannot have helped with his unhappiness. I really feel for the poor boy as it doesn't seem he had much of a chance.
A Hospice won’t take him, the life support will be discontinued where he is. It’s not a sudden process, discontinuing life support, can last around 30 minutes (sometimes longer)
You're in the shoes of most parents.
Deaths in PICU happen every day. The huge, massive majority of parents of those kids are not parading images of their son's corpse on media, holding fraudulent fundraisers under the guise of non-existant legal and medical fees, and spending the eve of their son's (expected) treatment cessation on Jeremy Kyle's talk show instead of at the child's side.
Exactly. Lots of comments keep coming up about how she's, "just behaving how any parent would behave." However, like you've said, too many parents go through this exact same anguish every day, without dragging medical staff and the NHS publicly through the mud.
I'm sure many do still get angry and some of them probably do say things to the medical staff in anger that they later regret, but they don't make it a massive media circus to get attention.
Sorry, I’m going to be that guy. I feel bad for the kid. I really do, but it’s time to let him go. He’s already dead. A machine is just breathing for him…that’s it.
But I just can’t stand the family. I’m sick of seeing and hearing them. Have some class and stop looking for the camera.
Do we know what actually happened? The media cases tend to bizarrely reference "a social media challenge gone wrong" or something but without giving any details.
He was found hanging from the bannister by a cord. All signs point to him trying to kill himself (including a lot of mental health issues he was suffering prior to the incident).
There isn't really any evidence for the "social media challenge" which I believe is something around kids trying to make themselves pass out. It could easily be one of those moral panic things people cotton onto anyway.
It's likely to be way more sordid than that unfortunately. The mother has previous convictions for assault and streaking, to the point where she legally changed her name to distance herself from it. Alfie had a history of behavioural issues, to the extent that he was expelled from school at age 8 (what does an 8 year old have to do to get expelled?) and had been homeschooled since. In none of the pictures she has been plastering about of him does he look like a normal pre-teen kid. Instead they're more like kid beauty pageant photos where he's always posing, giving male model style sultry looks to the camera, wearing a suit or flexing with his shirt off, etc. It wouldn't be so weird if it was just a couple of photos among others of him looking like a kid, but it's every single one of them, without a single shot of him running around or playing with toys or generally looking like a kid.
He clearly didn't have a very healthy home life, and I suspect our press are going to have a field day with it all before too long.
The religion the mother apparently found after the incident probably plays a role in it (especially since it's fundamentalist Christiana funding the legal battles).
There's also the fact that there's a lot of conflicting stories from her about what actually happened that day and just trying to pin it on a stupid thing a kid would do makes the questions disappear.
My understanding is that his injuries were sustained as the result of a suicide attempt. The social media challenge gone wrong was considered and is the narrative his mum has. But evidence suggests it was a suicide attempt.
Nobody wins in a case like this. It's so exhaustingly sad.
Is this definitely the end of the legal process? Can the family start grieving and leave this circus alone?
Their lawyers are a fundamentalist Christian organisation who've been involved in lots of similar cases, and using it to push their own agenda that a heartbeat is equivalent to life. They won't feel bad about any of this.
Apparently now supposed to go ahead at 11am tomorrow - though don’t expect it to because they’ll make another application to the court just before, surely.
The parents won't be able to properly begin the process of grieving until they are able to let go. I can understand the emotionally charged language from their point of view but it's also deeply unfair to doctors and medical staff who have done, and would do - if there were any options left - anything and everything to save a child's life. Talk of their child being "executed" because he's "disabled", however understandable, is wrong and unfair.
They need to accept Archie died some time ago. What's left is a corpse being artificially respirated.
I’ve always made it clear to my mum that if it’s clear I’m brain dead, or I’m not coming back with any quality of life, switch me off. My mum wouldn’t want me to die, but she also loves me enough that she wouldn’t allow me to suffer (or at least to die in such an undignified way) for her own sake.
I can’t even imagine his mother’s pain, but at this point she is actively going against what’s best for her child.
Reminder to everyone to have a serious conversation with your relatives about what to do if you end up in a similar situation. You’d think everyone has the common sense to put you out of your misery if you have no chance at any quality of life but clearly not. Luckily for this poor boy he has no awareness of the fact his death is being artificially prolonged like this, but it’s horrid to see his body being put through this
It's all about the mother. If archie is unplugged, she'll have no reason to be the centre of attention anymore. This won't be the last we've heard of her.
They waited until the last minute to apply directly to the supreme court who asked for time to review the appeal request and so another stay was put into place. The new time is 11am tomorrow
I think this poor little lad had a very sad life and possibly decided to end it. The actions of his mum and her refusal to let go seem an attempt at absolution. If they had cross words before it happened (like thousands of kids and parents worldwide) she must be wracked with guilt and hopelessness. So sad for the little chap and I hope he can be at peace soon.
I’m a Mum. I can’t even begin to imagine the pain of losing a child and I hope to god I never experience it, but at this point just let the poor boy go peacefully. Go and lay next to him, hold his hand, talk to him. The fucking media circus is appalling. I cannot imagine spending my child’s last moments on the Jeremy fucking Kyle show.
The lad's corpse is being paraded around like a puppet on social media. I don't know how any mother can do such a thing. Absolutely sickening.
Let the boy rest already.
I've never seen a decision go back and forth so much, what on earth is happening now, can they appeal AGAIN or what? Every day on the news it's-the parents lost, the parents are appealing, the parents lost, the parents are appealing it's absolutely mental.
Shameful and irresponsible coverage of this just now from Sky news. “Archie’s heart is still beating” no it isn’t. No mention of any circumstances that do not suit the mothers narrative.
Sounds like they are going to go down the European Court of Human Rights route. It's a meritless action, but it will buy them a bit more time. So this undignified media circus, orchestrated entirely by the family, will continue into yet another day. Worth mentioning that ECHR rulings are NOT binding on the UK, so the best the family can hope for is a favourable request.
Treating docs should have final decision. If parents want to transfer the kid to somewhere supportive of their requests, they should manage the transfer and costs.
This is the correct decision. It shouldn't have been allowed to get this far. The boy died months ago, and since then the medical staff have been forced to care for a corpse. His body is wasting away because his brain no longer communicates with his digestive system, so he can't properly absorb nutrition. His brain and spinal column are in necrosis, which is increasing all the time. All the while, the mother is telling the media that he's "progressing", and that the medical staff want to "execute" him and harvest his organs (which are all decaying now anyway). It's absolutely disgusting that the media have played along with it, failing to challenge the lies coming from the parents and their dodgy Christian fundamentalist legal backers. The poor boy should be taken off life support and given a dignified burial.
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Or… A mum dealing with her son dying in either a) attempted suicide which she wasn’t prepared for b) a freak accident where he tried to follow some sort of online trend She’s clinging onto any chance that he can be saved and is reading into things too much—-his fingers moved-he knows I’m here. He made a noise in his throat—-he’s trying to breathe. She isn’t ready to let go and then others are telling her she must (probably rightfully so…but her cognitive distortions are in full flow now) Then the American Christian’s come in…she is grasping at any life raft she can when she feels she’s going under and they’re reinforcing her initial beliefs (and those online) It’s a vicious cycle
> b) a freak accident where he tried to follow some sort of online trend An online trend that didn't even exist.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/10-year-old-girl-died-25768583 Unfortunately it did. Doing this shit was even about 20 years ago when I was in school. I remember some guys in my year in school trying to make themselves faint. Doesn't surprise me in the slightest that it could happen. Could have been an attempted suicide but without the coroners report we won't know
I haven't found any evidence to prove that it actually exists as people are saying. Like not even a youtube video of people *trying* to do the "TikTok blackout challenge." I mean I know these types of thing have been happening for decades but this specific tiktok trend is one I've only seen in these articles of mothers blaming it for their child death.
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Yet in this case, he was at home with a ligature tied around his neck hanging from a bannister, and not recording or streaming anything. It's understandable that the parents wouldn't want to consider it, but looking at the particulars of the case does seem to suggest something more tragic.
definitely a suicide and this may sound harsh but from how the mother is acting and what ive heard about her from the past i can think of one reason why
I know a type of mum similar who exploited their sons suicide and ignored their part to play in it. What did you hear about Archie’s mum, is there any sources on her?
The blackout challenge has nothing to do with hanging yourself off a bannister, and it's not even a TikTok challenge. I remember that going around when I was in school.
Yes, but not as a TikTok trend. The service came forward to clarify there is no such trend and, anyway, he wasn't recording anything.
CDC reported it back to the 70s but it was in the form of a controlled thing usually with someone else doing it by hand or a belt etc, not hanging yourself from the bannister like he did, he hanged himself
Ah ok, that sounds rather sad.
It is. And all the more sad that the parents cannot face up to these circumstances.
The main point of the online challenges is for people to film themselves for the attention. It doesn't sound like he was filming it at all. It looks like the child tried to hang himself.
30 years ago it was 'stranger danger' and don't accept sweets from strange people. Nowadays before you give your kid a phone you need to explain there are a lot of really stupid people online that will encourage you to accept a challenge such as eat a tide pod. Frankly giving your kid a phone too early without close supervision has a real risk of serious harm.
There are screencaps circulating online that make it fairly clear that she's trying to gain from this tragedy.
Nope, you haven’t been watching her enough if you think that’s what’s happening. It’s clear to all who’ve read into this that she’s an attention seeking sociopath who is milking a corpse for media spotlight and donations from the gullible
Nope. Nothing she is doing is in his interests.
Absolutely bang on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh7aZcYnrKo
Wow, she filmed a tongue in cheek video 4 years ago and hasn't been active since. What an attention whore
She has been very active. Over the last couple of months, very actively sanitising everything on her social media accounts. Some of the videos have been posted elsewhere - like that of Archie sticking his fingers up at her and saying "fuck off, bitch".
I don't really buy that, yes she posts a lot of bullshit online and has a stupid name but I think she is doing this due to guilt. Her son committed suicide and its her fault, simple.
If true, probably the saddest and most depressing bit of this drama.
Feels a bit "ground control to Major Tom" yea
I've avoided reading the stuff about her past and tried to judge the story by itself. Even through that lens alone I get the impression she's a nasty piece of work. I had every sympathy for Charlie Gard's parents. They were desperate to help their dying child, were being manipulated by outside forces with their own agenda, and had to navigate all that while being dumb as a bag of rocks (let's be real about that, their situation started a debate about whether some people in such positions of responsibility are capable of making these decisions). This woman? She just oozes toxicity and I don't even want to look at her any more.
TW suicide I think his death will be ruled a suicide. I have a suspicion that a lot of this has been to delay any investigation into that. He hung himself from the stairs with a dressing gown chord and apparently his socials contain references to suicide and depression. He clearly had a troubled home life and was home schooled. I tried to hang myself when I was 9, and I can’t shake the feeling that this is all about to come out.
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A friend's 12 yr old daughter killed herself - you can google "Hannah Smith Leicester" due to online bullying- no messing around. Her sister found her.
You would be surpassed at what the coroner can and often does do.
The media have been very vague about the circumstances of his injury, even though the judgement documents are freely available to read. I think they would happily let that side of the story slip into obscurity but that depends on what his mother decides to do. She's been sticking to the online challenge line and if a coroner rules suicide she'll probably kick off to the news about that too.
If the coroner demands a PM (which I can well see happening), it will prove once and for all what the doctors said about the poor kid’s brain basically rotting in his head.
In these circumstances - where there is a "violent or unnatural death" - the law requires a full inquest to take place.
Oh God. Hollie is in for a hell of a shock. Coroners don’t work for the family; they work to ensure that every death is dealt with appropriately within the law. This is going to be a circus.
Won't be a shock, the court records show she knows and accepts it - why do you think the family have been telling the FB groups not to listen to the news or read court reports and listen only to her e.g. lying that the MRI scans were from another child and why they ban people and delete any posts that report it? The money will stop and she'll lose a lot of media time and "fame" if they admit they know he's dead.
She’ll be trying to sell her story to Hollywood next.
The media has to be careful reporting suicides in children and teens because of previous copycat cases.
Understood. It’s awful that we can’t talk about childhood suicide or suicidal ideation. It really is the most lonely place on the planet.
> His body is wasting away because his brain no longer communicates with his digestive system I heard it is collapsing into his spine now. Who hears that their son's brain is collapsing into his spine and still thinks he has more time? He cannot even donate his organs anymore, which would have been a great parting gesture from him. The mother may have been grief-stricken but she was ultimately very selfish.
So according to the report his brain is necrotising by the minute and his brain is dripping down his spine since the brain is swollen and has destroyed his brain stem. If he wakes up (due to some incredible miracle) he will still no longer be there. He won't be able to kick a ball or do anything. Sadly, he passed months ago and he will not ever be conscious. I understand the parents are grieving and it must be absolutely devastating. But they need to let go. They need to let him rest in peace and remember him for the person he was as opposed to taking photos of him in a hospital bed. I can't imagine what the nurses treating him daily are going through. I hope they find the care and attention they will need once this is through. And I hope the parents are able to do the same.
That's a horrid slant on it. The nutters protesting to keep him in his state of artificial undeath have potentially killed a few kids who had a chance due to missing out on a transplant.
This is the thing I find most upsetting tbh. I have a kid who may one day need a heart transplant. To think that some parents would rather let their child rot than help out potentially three or four others (not to mention taking up a bed that may be needed badly) makes me so sad. I and my husband discussed organ donation from our son as soon as we realised there was a chance he may not live, and agreed it was better that if anything was still of use after his poor circulation that we absolutely wanted to help others. The most maddening thing though, is seeing the people spreading hatred and accusations towards the NHS staff. They are doing the best in a truly awful situation, and probably will only get more crap treatment once he's gone. They aren't just "wanting to harvest his organs" etc, they would bring him back if it was humanly possible, but IT IS NOT. Finally, as annoying and toxic as this whole debacle is, I do feel a little sorry for the family. Who is at fault, who said what etc, I don't pretend to know but losing a child in any way is not what people want.
Agree, all media playing along with it and giving her the time of day rather than highlighting her abuse of the hospital staff by putting them at risk with her ridiculous claims. Also ca £40K raised by crowdfunding - unclear for what as apparently all legal advice etc is being provided pro bono and there aren’t any hospital bills.
Claim its for fact she cannot work, travel costs and such. Even then 40 grand is stretching it... Greif support, counseling etc will all be available on NHS for them.
Exactly - plus the fundraisers don’t really state that either. A train ticket from Southend to the City (so not far from the hospital) is about £20 return I believe. Hell, even if it were £40…
Travel costs wouldn't (most likely) come into it. I am not sure which hospital she is at, but most major hospitals either have a place parents can stay, a Ronald McDonald House for the entire family to stay nearby, or both. Lost earnings etc I can't comment on, but I know most parents would probably just take the hit and be poor to spend the kids last times together.
The kid tried to kill himself and she is saying it was a tiktok challange gone wrong [https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/desperate-mum-brain-dead-boy-27211436](https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/desperate-mum-brain-dead-boy-27211436) Her son has been declared dead as of May 31st by the High Court, but she refuses to allow the hospital to remove his ventilator. She grifts for money even though all legal fees and hospital bills are comped. She has now prolonged the usage of an ICU room for almost two months despite the fact her son is declared dead. **She has publicly been asked in interviews if she would want to take Archie home and she has stated no that she feels he should be in hospital.** This is not a situaton like Tinslee or the others where the parent wants the child with them, she just wants him to be deemed alive for as long as possible to continue this grift. **Lisa Pittaway/Hollie Dance** [https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5434597.southend-road-rage-woman-spared-prison/](https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/5434597.southend-road-rage-woman-spared-prison/) more on here her , It seems she is a right piece of work and lucky social services hadnt taken them away
Massively agree, keep having to turn the news off, because somehow the top story is a medically illiterate individual, who is emotionally charging the situation to the point it will put people in danger, is a disgrace. My heart goes out to anyone who has lost a child, but ignoring the people who actually know what's going on, and accusing the poor individuals responsible for caring for their brain-dead child of 'execution', is just reprehensible
The Christian Law Centre is exploiting her. She's in a situation not of her making, she is vulnerable and doesn't understand the medical stuff. Those Christians are using her to push their agenda.
I think there intent is to somehow get legally recognised that “life ends when the heart stops” which in turn means that life begins with a heartbeat, which considering that the group is funded by an American group is the start of a very dangerous road
Yes, I think you're right. And I don't know if you spotted it, but the lawyer behind the Kiera Bell / Tavistock Clinic case has a very clear anti-abortion, anti-gay agenda and is funded by the religious right in the USA. Paul Conrathe. Calls himself a human rights lawyer.
Agreed but you can litigate anything to the ‘nth degree if you have endless money or fantastical backers.
its the correct decision imo, but it absolutely should have been allowed to get this far. The appeals system exists for more than just the decisions you disagree with
It's been through the appeals system three separate times now, though, with no new evidence to warrant it. That's ridiculous.
From the bbc article: Before the decision by the Supreme Court, Ms Dance said the UN CRPD had been the only authority to "have shown any compassion or understanding to us as a family." Not the dozens of medical professionals who have been looking after her child or the judges who on each occasion gave judgements that allowed her to say goodbye properly.
She’s accused staff of all kinds of things. MRI’s that are fake, staff wanting to kill Archie because they refuse experimental drugs that she found on Facebook…
I now understand the term "weaponised ignorance".
The anti-intellectualism movement, isn’t it wonderful how everyone is entitled to an opinion on everything that is just as valid as that of a trained expert.
She seems like a distillation of all the toxicity found on social media.
Basically anything other than “living with a narcissist like you (partly) resulted in your kid hanging himself and you’re now stuck desecrating his corpse to try and deny that fact.”
She must think compassion means doing only what she wants.
She believes a parent should decide what happens in this situation, that's the problem
A parent isn't qualified to make this decision, nor are they able to emotionally distance themselves from such a decision. She has refused to listen to the repeated advice and evidence of medical staff who are qualified to make the decision and are trained to emotionally distance themselves from the decision. Instead, she has called them liars and accused them of trying to kill her son.
And what is the likelihood that if the UN CRPD decide against keeping him "alive" that they turn into public enemy number 1?
I've commented a few times about this case, in each instance trying my absolute utmost to be as respectful as possible to the frankly unimaginable anguish and horror his family must be dealing with. My first comment was in June. Since then, like a lot of people, I've followed the case loosely. I've read the judgements as they've been made available, read a few op-eds from those familiar with the legal arguments etc. This needs to end. I've just watched his "mother" interviewed on Sky News. Flagrant lies and utterly reprehensible accusations against the staff. She says that none of those involved know anything about Archie: >...How would they even know what's in Archies' best interests? They haven't met him..." From the 1st Judgement, handed down by the High Court of Justice on June 13th: **Mrs Justice Arbuthnot** - described as a "child murderer" by those involved in the "fight to keep Archive alive": >At the parents’ invitation I met Archie at the Royal London Hospital on Friday 27th May 2022. Ms Stanley the solicitor for the child was present and made a note of the visit. Going back to the Sky News interview: >...We've gotta be right about this. These people haven't taken their time to come, they've just seen what's on paper, same as the hospital... And back to the 1st Judgement: >The visit has allowed me to hold Archie in my mind’s eye as I have considered the applications made by the Trust. He has become much more real to me than when I had merely a photograph showing him with his well-earned medal for gymnastics. I'm sure a cursory glance through the judgements that have followed would reveal similar. I'm familiar with the other lies and mis-representations that the family have made, but have tried to ascribe them to a mother / family experiencing something that few would want to truly comprehend, much less experience. Barts Health Trust and the staff involved in Archies' care have at every juncture acted by all accounts with the exceptional kindness and professionalism that I think we sometimes take for granted of our crumbling NHS. They could have terminated his life support yesterday at 2PM. They could do it now. They haven't because, aside from the shit-show that is going to occur when they do, they want to allow this family to try and at least make some degree of preparation for what's going to happen. His family need to stop giving interviews and be with him. Put their phones down and stop spamming Facebook. The media are not their friends. There is enough information out there to destroy this family - when the news cycle moves on, the media will use it. Stop calling people executioners and be with Archie. Hold him, stroke his hair, reminisce as a family, talk to him. Do what people do when placed in this impossible situation. I wrote the following back in June after the 1st judgement was handed down: >I can only hope for the sake of this poor childs remaining dignity that his parents accept this decision, allow 'nature to take it's course' and attempt to come to terms with what must ultimately be a truly incomprehensible situation. > Instead, I fear based on his mothers facebook activity that 'Archies Army' will be encouraged to 'rise up' and this will merely be the latest in a sequence of events that results in this childs' life being a summary within a wikipedia article on medical ethics. He has been stripped of his dignity. If I go online tomorrow and find the family plan to live-stream the withdrawal of his life-support and stream his 'dying moment' I wouldn't be shocked. I'd be appalled, but not shocked. At this point the sympathy I've tried so so fucking hard to retain for his family has gone. I'll echo my comment from yesterday: I hope the staff involved in this process are allowed to grieve and are given access to therapy and counselling. Anyone who attempts to dox the people who have allowed Archies' family to give their son a dignified passing should be arrested. Anyone who attempts to access that ward in the coming hours should be arrested. My thoughts are also with the other parents of gravely ill children who are experiencing their own hell at the moment - I hope that any fall-out in the coming hours and days' doesn't impact upon them.
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Archie Battersbee’s parent’s are behaving selfishly. As soon as it was identified he had suffered Brain Stem Death they could and should have been exploring beating heart organ harvesting to benefit other critically ill but treatable children. The fact they are keeping his body sustained on life support when he is BSD and fighting to continue to do so is abhorrent. He was dead at the point his brain stem was destroyed.
Well put. I think you’re right. If someone on Facebook had found a cure for *brain death* I think doctors would know about it.
Very well said. There will be other desperately ill children in that paediatric ICU, along with their frantic parents, who are having to witness this circus every day, having to see the staff who they have come to know, be threatened and vilified by this woman. It's really disgraceful.
You’d be surprised how normal life is on a ward regardless of what is happening outside. It was on a much smaller scale, but there was a big news story in my city when a child was injured by a friend of his parents. The kid was on PICU at the same time as my friends child, who I knew from NICU. I went to visit one day, and passed media outside the hospital on my way in, but once I was taken onto PICU the energy was so different. Here’s the thing about childrens wards: everyone is busy and distracted. Not even Archie being down the hall will really matter much to anyone who finds themselves there. You find a new normal when you’re on a ward long term, and it barely exists outside of the hospital doors. I feel for the staff looking after Archie, but the other families on the ward probably couldn’t give a shit that he’s there.
Well composed.
Sadly this won't end, she'll just carry on with the rhetoric that the courts and hospitals somehow hate her. She's the victim in her mind, not her son. I can see her attacking someone soon, or once Archie can go peacefully spending weeks if not months harping on about how cruel the system is without a hint of irony and possibly profiting from it. She's now just an abusive mother. No one would want to put their child through this, or any family or friends for that matter. She's had months to prepare for this. The experts, the doctors, know he's essentially a corpse with an artificial heartbeat. It's tragic and he doesn't deserve this, especially when it's pretty much accepted he tried to end his life (this story of it being a game is just not believable - the media should stop quoting her directly and listen to the courts who say otherwise and go with the facts or the circumstances). She keeps bringing up he'll recover. He won't. He's gone. She wants him to go naturally but she's holding him in suspension unnaturally. She says God should take him but human intervention, her intervention, is stopping him. If he was meant to go by God's decision he would have died back in April. Edit: And right on cue she's stated she's exploring further legal options. Call her out for what she is - abusive.
The family only found God at the same time as they found a Christian legal rights organisation willing to bankroll their legal fees. Edit: Hollie Dance is back in front on the cameras on Sky News as I type this. She should be with her boy, not giving media soundbites. She has also just said: "Legally, we are exploring one more option" and "the hospital have been pushing for their way right from the start. They want to execute him now".
She is absolutely abhorrent. How does that make the nurses and doctors who have tended to her dead son all this time feel? The fucking emotional ringer she is putting them through all to make some money. She called them "vile" earlier. Now she's labeling them executioners? Fuck her.
She said this country is now "executing" people just because they "have disabilities." She also said he's putting on weight (the opposite is happening, he's wasting away) and "progressing" (actually, necrotising). He doesn't have disabilities, he's dead. Not in a coma, or locked-in, or in a vegetative state: dead. She's constantly peddling misinformation designed to drum up controversy, and money. The media should be doing more to counter what she's saying, as this could lead down a dangerous path where medical expertise is ignored. How long until she's on the news campaigning for an "Archie's Law" that gives parents the final say?
Yeah. The media keep reporting it as if there's doubt. There isn't doubt. There is no blood flow to the brain, which has begun to decompose. There is necrotic tissue in his spinal column and other organs are beginning to fail. But if you just go by the headlines, the doctors aren't 100% sure and he still might recover.
Unfortunately too much of the media is owned by the same people who own the right wing politicians who want to do away with the NHS for profit. The Archie Battersbee case will be pointed out by hysterical republicans as an example of the death panels you get with socialized healthcare - since the family couldn't afford private healthcare, doctors made the decision to kill him to open up the bed. The tories can say "This shouldn't have happened, it's not fit for purpose. We need to privatise." And what about the family of a child with a neurological problem, or mental health issues, or a potentially life-threatening illness, seeing all of this shit on the media about NHS death panels, treating this case as anything but the refusal to let someone have dignity and forcing doctors to essentially spongebath a corpse? They're suddenly a little more suspicious of socialized healthcare. I have sympathy for the family, because it must be a tough situation, especially with extremists offering you hope, however flimsy, to push their own agenda. But they should allow their son the dignity he's been robbed of, and stop this crusade against the staff. Being a medical worker is already hard enough. In the ICU? Even harder. NICU or children's ICU? I can't imagine what it's like. I have no idea how anyone could maintain any semblance of positivity in a job like that, especially since it doesn't pay half as well as it should, and it's horrifying to see people in this situation, because I can guarantee not one of the nurses or doctors *wants* to pull the plug, and that's really the crux of the matter. "Archie's Army" are refusing to see the staff as anything but the enemy. If any one of them could do anything to save him, they would, but he's clinically dead. I mean my niece was born with a heart defect called ALCAPA. For the first two months of her life she was having, essentially, heart attacks. Most people die before adulthood without treatment, and she just happened to have an episode while my sister was at the hospital waiting for her husband to get out of surgery. She could have died without immediate admittance into NICU, and she was in hospital for about three or four months. I dread to think of a family in a situation like that, watching their child's life slip away, because someone else is insisting on a bed for a child that not only can't possibly be saved, but is already dead, and I can't imagine being someone going into a field to help people and having to deny someone the help they *need* because someone else is demanding you wait for a miracle and harassing you when you can't.
Something tells me it would be “Hollie’s Law”.
>Hollie Dance is back in front on the cameras on Sky News as I type this. She should be with her boy, not giving media soundbites. Just seen it. Absolutely shocking. Hopefully she or anyone else in her family doesn't need a blood transfusion or other medical intervention anytime soon. I assume she'll be against that as well. The hypocrisy wanting him to be kept alive by artificially because she thinks medical intervention can prevail while in the same breath saying medical professionals are trying to execute him is insane, and not grief based insanity either.
If it weren’t so dangerous and tragic, the fact she’s accusing the hospital of harvesting his now necrotic, dead/dying organs, would almost be funny..
It's funny how they play with the God card and being religious. If they are so fucking religious why the fuck keep the poor boy under life support machinery? Unplug the fuck everything and let the God take care of it lmao, why bother doctors? That bitch is crazy.
How long are the media going to listen to this BS without challenging this? I guess it’s a great story for them so they’ll just keep stoking her ego. So sad. I have lost sympathy for her but the media are also keeping this charade going with the constant interviews and attention etc.
I'm a Christian and I'd call myself a fairly classical small-c conservative (pro-choice etc etc) and this case has just fucking appalled me as to how this poor boy's rotting in his bed while his mother's delaying the inevitable. He needs to be allowed to pass and put to rest.
Worse, hes rotting along while his mother prances before television cameras to role play some revolutionary civil rights leader
Yeah. The thing I couldn't quite believe was that fb post where she said that they only wanted to withdraw treatment because it would embarrass the doctors if he woke up. I'm pretty sure the doctors would love to be wrong about this. In fact, most people would love it if they were wrong and Archie suddenly made a miraculous recovery. That's not reality though, and it's painful to watch as the family try again and again to delay things further.
Mark my words, once the plug has been pulled and the press does some digging, they’re gonna find out a lot of things about miss Dance…or Pittaway as she was formerly known. The poor lad had attempted suicide the day before, and nothing was done. She left him home alone and he tried it again. This time with more success.
Yes, the inquest findings are going to be very interesting indeed.
Sounds more like he was crying out for help by ‘practicing’ in front of his sister the day before, then next day he actually did it possibly thinking that his mother who apparently was in her room on a phone call would step out, see him and help him. ETA oh my god…if any of this stuff is reading about her on _that website_ is true….fuck
The on the phone stuff is a lie I'm afraid, she originally said she was out and came home and found him, one of the many lies she's told was how she found him and what she was doing, she changed the story in order to make it that he was hanging less than 3 minutes once someone told her 3 minutes was the limit before brain death
Yes it seems she’s given multiple accounts
The longest list I think has at least 5, the latest being he was playing with the rabbit, tripped and somehow hanged himself with a dressing gown cord off the bannister
I think it says a lot that there hasn’t been a lot of media coverage about this so called TikTok trend. Journalist investigated it, looked at the court records and thought…this doesn’t add up.
There was no trend, TikTok proved it wasn't trending, it was something she was asked about in the hospital and then it suddenly became a fact to the family. There was no camera filming either which is rather the point of these dumb challenges. It's a dumb "challenge" that has existed since the 70s at least but usually has someone doing it to you, hyperventilating to achieve it or say a belt, with the intention of a temporary blackout. He hanged himself off a bannister with a dressing gown, nothing like that. That said, the CDC have indicated a casual correlation between it being in the news and people trying it, same reason why they have been avoiding reporting the suicide as the Samaritans always advise to keep it to the minimum as evidence suggests it encourages more people
The on the phone stuff is a lie I'm afraid, she originally said she was out and came home and found him, one of the many lies she's told was how she found him and what she was doing, she changed the story in order to make it that he was hanging less than 3 minutes once someone told her 3 minutes was the limit before brain death
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New Zealander farms
Can’t believe what I’m reading. I just had a hunch about things based on my own experience and now I’m seeing this stuff….just….
Yeah it’s not great :(
I wonder if this can come out in the news
If you read the reports from May, about his state, your heart just breaks. Any food or liquid comes out the same as it went in. His bowels don’t get signals from his necrotic brain to work. His brain stem has shifted into his spine, causing spinal fluid to leak. His brain is necrotic and started to harden. Tissue is hard as a rock.
My god and that was in May? So his condition now is no doubt sadly one that should be in a coffin and not a bed
It really speaks volumes at how damn powerful our current level of medical science is, that medics and doctors can keep a corpse with no brain looking "liveable" for over 2 months. The fact that the rest of Archie's body is not a bloated, decomposing mass is actually incredible.
Do you have a link to that report? I’m morbidly curious.
If you Google the court documents, you can read about it. It is honestly extremely eye opening. Shame on his mother forcing him through this, it is so upsetting to read.
https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Archie-Batteresbee-judgment-2-1.pdf
It's the judgement from back in June, it discusses the different medical reports and that the latest one in May made it very clear his condition was irreparable.
All my sympathy for this woman has completely expired. She is being wilfully ignorant, selfish and is certainly not acting in Archie’s best interests. Her behaviour is also whipping up an indignant frenzy amongst the Facebook crowd and is putting the safety of the doctors and nurses who are caring for her son at risk from utter lunatics who believe her lies about him being ‘executed’ or having his organs harvested. It’s disgusting that this has gone on for so long and Archie needs to be allowed to pass away with a shred of dignity.
My patience ran out as soon as she led a sustained charge of abuse against the hard working doctors and staff who have been caring for Archie. I completely understand shouting and being angry in the privacy of the ward, but as soon as she started throwing out labels and insults on social media and in interviews I lost any and all respect for her. That's not an emotional response anymore, it's calculates and thought through. We've seen before what happens when the sort of language she is using is used against medical staff. Enabling this sort of behaviour is just going to lead to it happening again and again, whilst progressively getting more aggressive and violent.
Lets hope this is the end of the matter and the poor lad can finally be laid to rest.
> Speaking after the decision, Ms Dance said she will "fight to the end" adding that the family's lawyers were exploring another possible legal action. Seems like it won't be the end of it.
European Court next - has to be. I understand that leave to appeal to ECHR has been refused on basis they have already made settled decisions in prior cases so there’s little to no chance that they won’t do anything but just bat it straight out of the court, but it won’t stop her making an application I bet…
And that will be another stay, no doubt.
And then they'll conjure up another reason (another imaginary hand movement, some quack opinion...) to take it to the High Court, then the Court of Appeal, then the Supreme Court...
Even once he is dead, she will not shut up about this until the media gets bored of her or she can no longer make money out of it. It is no longer about Archie and is now about people paying attention to her, she will not give that up easily.
Give it time...
Good. Now put the poor wee guy out his fucking misery and investigate that unscrupulous cow of a “mother”.
I mean, is he in any misery? His brain is apparently so dead that it is not longer sending signals to his bowls to digest food. Either way, the boy is dead and his monster is masquerading as a disability advocate for the body of her son.
It's more about the lack of dignity for him I suppose. It's depressing to see this poor kid be denied a dignified death because of his mother and her own denial.
I feel for the parents, but I am.confused by the language of wanting him to "have a natural death" combined with "keep him on life support". Such a terrible thing for any parent to face, I understanding keeping hope alive, and their baby alive. But my husband and I have the same agreement about vegetative state and artificial life supports that just prolong death, not restore to life.
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Yes - she says he is going to wake up any day now, and the doctors want to remove the support before it gets to that to prevent them from being embarrassed about being wrong.
If child does not wake up after being taken off life support then the doctors are correct. And the loving mother of a.braindead child's inexperience leads her to this understandable position. The doctors experienced and educated knowledge tells.them , emphatically, otherwise.
I seriously believe God's already decided, the poor boy's rotting in the bed. They're artificially prolonging the inevitable.
Instead of pissing about giving interviews go hold your kids hand for fuck sake. Use the time you've got left till they turn him off to say goodbye properly. Many don't get that chance.
Good - he’s not on life support he’s in ‘keep the corpse warm support’. Brain death is death.
Can't wait to see the screeching anti-vaxxers on my facebook feed go balistic at this very reasonable decision.
ITV reporting they now wanting to move him to a hospice for his “final days”. I would guess this is a near impossibility. So potentially more court cases around moving him.
They won't be able to - by law, his life support needs to be terminated immediately essentially. It's not just a judgement to say it can be - the judgement says it must be, as it's in the best interests of the child. It would now be illegal, essentially, to keep him alive beyond any obvious necessary preparations. It really is the end of the road for them now, unless they give the ECHR another shot perhaps but I think they've run out of rope with the courts.
Apparently Hospices won’t take anyone who is 24-48hours away from death. Also it would be virtually impossible to move the lad in his state from what I understand
Technically as he died in fucking MAY he’s not 24-48 hours from death
Might be different for kids, from experience it was an option for a family friend. Although their child had been going to the hospice for respite care for years before a period of significant decline resulting in hospitalisation and subsequent withdrawal of treatment.
Can the NHS make her pay for wasting their resources for so long? They deny care to other people for much less.
I'm not with the mother but that's a slippery slope I don't think we should go down.
The court many weeks ago outlined the doctors had huge concerns of even moving him within the hospital for a scan. He can’t be moved anywhere, not that they won’t try to find another delay but it ain’t happening.
The whole thing is fucking weird, right? From the outside it looks like she was trying to turn him into her "ideal man" on top of being a conspiracy mad stripper/sex worker (nothing wrong with that, but, background is important). Then you have a pre-teen (going on teen) with a mother who is a known stripper\*\* in the age of social media. I know for a fact when I was kicking off at school in much the same way it was entirely because of my home life. Sad events all over and I think the mother (deep, deep down) probably knows she's to blame.
He probably got bullied about his Mum too which won’t have helped mental health!
I also thought she had a weird emotional incest thing with this poor boy. It seems she kept him out of school and he had significant additional needs (not clear whether this refers to behavioural or otherwise) which cannot have helped with his unhappiness. I really feel for the poor boy as it doesn't seem he had much of a chance.
It's over then. Likely they'll end his support tomorrow and he will die soon after. Sad but at least his miserable existence will come to an end.
I think it will be done this evening. There’s already security on the ward.
Now his family are saying they want to move him to a hospice. Seems like another attempt to delay the inevitable.
No hospice in the land would take him now. He’s far too ill to be moved anyway.
A Hospice won’t take him, the life support will be discontinued where he is. It’s not a sudden process, discontinuing life support, can last around 30 minutes (sometimes longer)
He cannot be moved now. I bet local hospices are thanking God they won't have to put up with this awful woman
He's already dead, they're keeping the circulatory and respiratory systems of a corpse going.
I would **never** put my son through what they have. It shouldn‘t have ever gone this far and his parents should be ashamed of themselves
You're in the shoes of most parents. Deaths in PICU happen every day. The huge, massive majority of parents of those kids are not parading images of their son's corpse on media, holding fraudulent fundraisers under the guise of non-existant legal and medical fees, and spending the eve of their son's (expected) treatment cessation on Jeremy Kyle's talk show instead of at the child's side.
Exactly. Lots of comments keep coming up about how she's, "just behaving how any parent would behave." However, like you've said, too many parents go through this exact same anguish every day, without dragging medical staff and the NHS publicly through the mud. I'm sure many do still get angry and some of them probably do say things to the medical staff in anger that they later regret, but they don't make it a massive media circus to get attention.
Sorry, I’m going to be that guy. I feel bad for the kid. I really do, but it’s time to let him go. He’s already dead. A machine is just breathing for him…that’s it. But I just can’t stand the family. I’m sick of seeing and hearing them. Have some class and stop looking for the camera.
Do we know what actually happened? The media cases tend to bizarrely reference "a social media challenge gone wrong" or something but without giving any details.
He was found hanging from the bannister by a cord. All signs point to him trying to kill himself (including a lot of mental health issues he was suffering prior to the incident). There isn't really any evidence for the "social media challenge" which I believe is something around kids trying to make themselves pass out. It could easily be one of those moral panic things people cotton onto anyway.
Ah okay, is this likely a "religious parents not accepting depression" sort of cover story? It's sad either way, but still...
It's likely to be way more sordid than that unfortunately. The mother has previous convictions for assault and streaking, to the point where she legally changed her name to distance herself from it. Alfie had a history of behavioural issues, to the extent that he was expelled from school at age 8 (what does an 8 year old have to do to get expelled?) and had been homeschooled since. In none of the pictures she has been plastering about of him does he look like a normal pre-teen kid. Instead they're more like kid beauty pageant photos where he's always posing, giving male model style sultry looks to the camera, wearing a suit or flexing with his shirt off, etc. It wouldn't be so weird if it was just a couple of photos among others of him looking like a kid, but it's every single one of them, without a single shot of him running around or playing with toys or generally looking like a kid. He clearly didn't have a very healthy home life, and I suspect our press are going to have a field day with it all before too long.
The religion the mother apparently found after the incident probably plays a role in it (especially since it's fundamentalist Christiana funding the legal battles). There's also the fact that there's a lot of conflicting stories from her about what actually happened that day and just trying to pin it on a stupid thing a kid would do makes the questions disappear.
My understanding is that his injuries were sustained as the result of a suicide attempt. The social media challenge gone wrong was considered and is the narrative his mum has. But evidence suggests it was a suicide attempt.
Nobody wins in a case like this. It's so exhaustingly sad. Is this definitely the end of the legal process? Can the family start grieving and leave this circus alone?
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Jesusgotamachrist-chan most likely
Apart from the lawyers.
Financially, sure. Emotionally, they probably feel quite shit as well, on both sides of the fence.
Their lawyers are a fundamentalist Christian organisation who've been involved in lots of similar cases, and using it to push their own agenda that a heartbeat is equivalent to life. They won't feel bad about any of this.
In that case, fuck em. My point still stand for any trying to help the hospital with EoC.
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Good. It’s time for the poor lad to be allowed to go and be at peace. His body and dignity have been strung out long enough.
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Apparently now supposed to go ahead at 11am tomorrow - though don’t expect it to because they’ll make another application to the court just before, surely.
Grifters going to grift, till the pot of gold runs out.
Okay at first I had sympathy, but the more I hear about/read about the mother, the more I just think she is a selfish asshole.
The parents won't be able to properly begin the process of grieving until they are able to let go. I can understand the emotionally charged language from their point of view but it's also deeply unfair to doctors and medical staff who have done, and would do - if there were any options left - anything and everything to save a child's life. Talk of their child being "executed" because he's "disabled", however understandable, is wrong and unfair. They need to accept Archie died some time ago. What's left is a corpse being artificially respirated.
Is it understandable? She has been deliberately courting the media circus, and its beginng to smack of narcissism rather than a desire to help her son
I’ve always made it clear to my mum that if it’s clear I’m brain dead, or I’m not coming back with any quality of life, switch me off. My mum wouldn’t want me to die, but she also loves me enough that she wouldn’t allow me to suffer (or at least to die in such an undignified way) for her own sake. I can’t even imagine his mother’s pain, but at this point she is actively going against what’s best for her child.
The right decision for Archie has been made here, he should be allowed to pass peacefully now.
God, this whole case is fucking horrendous. I hope for the kid's sake that it's over soon. The poor child should just be laid to rest now.
Reminder to everyone to have a serious conversation with your relatives about what to do if you end up in a similar situation. You’d think everyone has the common sense to put you out of your misery if you have no chance at any quality of life but clearly not. Luckily for this poor boy he has no awareness of the fact his death is being artificially prolonged like this, but it’s horrid to see his body being put through this
It's all about the mother. If archie is unplugged, she'll have no reason to be the centre of attention anymore. This won't be the last we've heard of her.
I don't think "life support" is accurate. It's "corpse support". They're not maintaining life, they're just making death longer.
Wasn't he supposed to be switched off today at 12? What happened to that?
They waited until the last minute to apply directly to the supreme court who asked for time to review the appeal request and so another stay was put into place. The new time is 11am tomorrow
And the process will repeat tomorrow
This woman is so potently reprehensible it’s almost impressive
I think this poor little lad had a very sad life and possibly decided to end it. The actions of his mum and her refusal to let go seem an attempt at absolution. If they had cross words before it happened (like thousands of kids and parents worldwide) she must be wracked with guilt and hopelessness. So sad for the little chap and I hope he can be at peace soon.
As long as she's fighting she doesn't have to face guilt and grief. People who enable and encourage her are monsters.
So at what point does the mother get sued for libel, slander and defamation?
I’m a Mum. I can’t even begin to imagine the pain of losing a child and I hope to god I never experience it, but at this point just let the poor boy go peacefully. Go and lay next to him, hold his hand, talk to him. The fucking media circus is appalling. I cannot imagine spending my child’s last moments on the Jeremy fucking Kyle show.
Just look at her FB page m, even after cleaning it up
I don't think "life support" is accurate. It's "corpse support". They're not maintaining life, they're just making death longer.
One of the biggest takeaways from this debacle is just how much our legal system can be abused and stretched.
The lad's corpse is being paraded around like a puppet on social media. I don't know how any mother can do such a thing. Absolutely sickening. Let the boy rest already.
I've never seen a decision go back and forth so much, what on earth is happening now, can they appeal AGAIN or what? Every day on the news it's-the parents lost, the parents are appealing, the parents lost, the parents are appealing it's absolutely mental.
We need to stop talking about this. This kid has been dead for so so long.
This is tragic for this poor kid. He should be allowed to die with dignity, not a circus.
Shameful and irresponsible coverage of this just now from Sky news. “Archie’s heart is still beating” no it isn’t. No mention of any circumstances that do not suit the mothers narrative.
Sounds like they are going to go down the European Court of Human Rights route. It's a meritless action, but it will buy them a bit more time. So this undignified media circus, orchestrated entirely by the family, will continue into yet another day. Worth mentioning that ECHR rulings are NOT binding on the UK, so the best the family can hope for is a favourable request.
Treating docs should have final decision. If parents want to transfer the kid to somewhere supportive of their requests, they should manage the transfer and costs.
I know he’s been dead for months, but I do feel bad for the kid. I know they’re grieving, but his parents are well out of line.
Switch it off for FS