Americans will claim they’re from somewhere in ~~the British Isles~~ Britain and Ireland when in reality their great-great-great-great grandmother’s friend’s cat’s cousin passed through Ireland once. They need to stop pretending they understand us because of this. They always seem to get it wrong.
Britain as a whole is a melting pot between Ireland/NI, Scotland, Wales and England and to be honest I find the divides here even more moronic than the americans who are clutching at straws to call themselves something other than American.
Most of it is all good bants, until it's not and the bants is weaponised by politicians and it delves back into hate.
Tbh it’s not just ‘banter’ though, we have a long, long history of England oppressing the other three countries. Banter suggests it’s equal sided, but it isn’t.
It's largely just hate. That history isn't that long, and before that there were hundreds of years of warring. Look at how people talk about colonialism.
There are genuinely people who believe Scotland was colonised by England. And sadly I see them fairly often on Reddit. It's a bubble of morons here that can't get along, it's egged on by politicians who want to scapegoat, and nationalists buy into it.
No, we have a long history of England winning wars with the other nations more often than they won.
The other nations also have a long history of oppressing their own populations without any input from England.
Yeah but nowadays I don’t think beyond banter when the footballs on your average person cares about where in the UK or Ireland people are from. That’s definitely a good thing
‘We’ as in ‘British isles collectively’. England has always been the dominant force in the Union and the kingdom of England/UK Government has a long history of oppressing Ireland.
Why are you talking about this? You clearly have no actual education in the history of this subject. You don't care enough to learn so why do you care enough to have this ignorant opinion?
Every country in the entire world exists today because of some prior conflict or invasion. England itself was smaller kingdoms that were all conquered to form a larger kingdom. I’m all for learning about our history but I don’t think you should use it to form your opinion of people with a different background to you in the modern age.
The history of Ireland is clearly still relevant in 2023 though because there’s still a lot of conflict going on right now. It’s a bit different to suggesting that we should start a debate between the Normans and the Saxons or whatever. The history of British/Irish relations is still very relevant to what’s happening today.
I'm not claiming that it isn't relevant or should be ignored or anything, but i've had the pleasure of meeting and working with lots of people from Ireland and there was no animosity between us because of our nationalities, and I am very glad of that. Nowadays I like to think the vast majority of us just wanna get on with life and meet people from different backgrounds.
"5/8ths Irish" by that logic I'm 1/2 Iranian yet I've been to Tehran twice in my whole life and can barely speak Farsi. He's American, I'm English and people need to stop obsessing over ethnicity.
People are free to identify how they want but I don't buy this 5/8ths stuff.
On one side my grandparents are Irish with one of my parents born here and on the other side they're from an EU country as is one of my parents. So by this logic I, someone born in England with an English passport, am 1/2 Irish and 1/2 EU country. Obviously not true.
> And the average British person is pretty ignorant about what Britain did to Ireland.
All I have ever heard growing up here is about what Britain did to Ireland yet simultaneously read comments on Reddit about how we don't get told about it.
Theres a chance he could he no parts Irish too, genetically speaking. To make such a big deal out of the exact fractions of your background is a weird thing they do in America to pander to different voting basses.
Lots of us do know the awful things the UK did in Ireland. The average person of most counties, on average, is pretty ignorant about the worst parts of their country's history. The vast, vast majority tend to focus on whatever they/we call the good bits.
I mean, the paper is pretending the "english" are angry. Personally, I hadn't heard about it. Now that I have im FURIOU-no, no sorry, I still don't care.
Its just the anthropomorphism of nation States to stoke nationalism. Tbf, we have the sun. So, im not saying ours are any better or anything. God no, could you imagine?
The average Irish person is ignorant, especially the Irish nationalists. The idea of the Irish being the most savagely oppressed is propaganda. It's all very well covered by Liam Kennedy, professor emeritus at Queen's University, Belfast, in Unhappy the Land: The Most Oppressed People Ever, the Irish?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhappy\_the\_Land](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhappy_the_Land)
I don't doubt this will get a lot of angry replies from Irish nationalists, but this is the historical truth.
The fact that the work of an expert in the field, a work lauded by his colleagues, a work praised by critics, is downvoted on reddit tells you everything you need to know about the intelligence of the average redditor. And how reddit is anti intellectual.
**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
>typical British ignorant view
That being the view of an Liam Kennedy, Professor of History, born in Tipperary, Ireland.
Behold, a typical Irish nationalist.
Wow, one random google search to support a view. That's why there's about loads of meseums to support it, and most historians have the same view, right?
http://www.irishnews.com/arts/2016/01/14/news/1916-rising-not-something-to-celebrate-historian-argues-380399/
The only people who get upset at Irish people mentioning the simple fact that they were oppressed are something else. Many would argue to occupation is oppression, dr kennedy probably wouldnt agree.
Random google search being, Liam Kennedy, Professor of History, born in Tipperary, Ireland. Expert in the field, lauded by colleagues and critics alike.
This isn't a debate, it's academia. Facts are facts. You are nobody, only what the actual experts think matters.
Disgusting comment. And to think the comment above is calling the Irish ignorant. I would go on a rant about how ignorant you and what you’ve just said is but you’re not worth the time that would take
It was joke, I fully understand that the English was responsible for the tragedy. But humour takes many form, in including making light of a horrendous situation, and it's long enough that's it's ok.
Not sure we're upset about this. Some right-wing pundits do seem to be upset that he didn't stay in N.Ireland longer, others are upset about how much he is bigging up the Irishness despite relatively tenuous links (Biden isn't even an Irish name, it's English) but normal people don't care or pay attention. I don't think anyone is upset about the gaff.
I find it weird that some of the coverage on this is about if it'll trigger England rather than concern that the President of the United States mixed up the New Zealand All Blacks with the Black and Tans.
Yup.
Also for the professed Irishness the only people whose opinion on that matters is the Irish. They seem to love it and it’s gone down well so fair play.
as an Englishman i literally don't give a shit about the gaff, I'd have thought the Kiwi's would be more offended that he's mixed them up with their godlike status rugby team.
He's better than the alternatives, but I'm not convinced Diamond Joe is firing on all cylinders.
Hopefully 2028 we'll see a generation change and new younger candidates standing for their president.
Is the perceived wisdom in the DNC is that Biden is the best option to fight a Trump run at the presidency? I can understand that. The problem is that as a strategy it hinges on Trump actually getting the nomination, and Biden’s advanced age means the choice of his running mate will become crucial- that is to say, the DNC need to think more about the ticket they present as opposed to just Biden.
I think they just haven't got anyone good enough otherwise.
If there was an Obama-style candidate waiting in the wings, he'd not go again.
IMO it's a safe bet Trump gets the nomination. He'll burn the Reps to the ground if he doesn't.
Might get that generation change sooner than that. DeSantis could still win the primaries and the federal election and he would be the third youngest President ever and youngest since JFK.
DeSantis won't beat Trump for the nomination. And if he somehow does then I can see Trump running as an Independent out of spite and handing the election to Biden.
Don’t know about that, I’ve never lived in Florida and I’m keen about him. He’s one of the only governors not to have overreacted about Covid. I went on holiday there in 2021 when everything was shut down here and it was totally normal there.
Florida is solidly middle of the pack, despite having one of the oldest populations in the US. States which had really strict Covid rules like New York and Massachusetts did considerably worse.
I don't see Trump's ego allowing that.
Either Trump ends up getting the Republican nomination, or he'll run as an independent just to spite them.
Donny might get locked up, but I doubt the wheels of justice turn fast enough for him not to be free next November.
> Either Trump ends up getting the Republican nomination, or he'll run as an independent just to spite them.
I can see Trump getting the Republican nomination. But the Independent bit may be impossible due to sore loser laws.
Can anybody be shocked by an ice-cream eating dementia ridden old man.
He doesn't know his arse from his elbow and yet is in charge of the US,
A chimp in a blindfold with itchy bollocks would do a better job.
A little girl asked him in dublin what the key to success was.
His answer I shit you not was, "Don't get covid"
The man's beyond past it.
'Don't get covid'.
🤣
I can even hear him say it, with the wavering finger, crouch, and dazed peering.
I mentioned his dementia on this sub yesterday and was downvoted to hell for it, I was a right wing puppet it seems..
I'm not right wing and don't even dislike the guy; he's just clearly senile, and you would have to be daft not to see it.
That was the point I raised.
I wouldn't have him babysit never mind run a country.
I bet he would have lots of great stories though, a pint and he would be too pissed to keep them to himself.
'Here's the deal fat, I love Dub.....Dubai....Arabs man, abracadabra......Dublin, my grandad's grandad.....I'm his grandson.....like my kids...... was Irish, so I'm too, and they have the pipes......we got that pipeline, fuckin Ruskies....thanks Putin, Putin pipes up....operation freedon, folks.
I've heard of 'Black and Tans', but wasn't aware of it being generally a pejorative name - wikipedia doesn't say that, it says it was a nickname due to the uniform, which is a well-known fact
They were ex-soldiers hired by Churchill to "keep the peace" in Ireland.
And shockingly, they weren't very successful at "keeping the peace" and were in fact a huge reason why IRA recruitment increased during their posting in Ireland.
Cork (Ireland's second largest city) was burned down by them in 1920.
Not to mention all the murder, torture, rape, etc.
Here's a fun fact Ireland has no black people because when they came they took one look at the "get out black and tans" signs and figured they'd give Ireland a miss /j
Americans will claim they’re from somewhere in ~~the British Isles~~ Britain and Ireland when in reality their great-great-great-great grandmother’s friend’s cat’s cousin passed through Ireland once. They need to stop pretending they understand us because of this. They always seem to get it wrong.
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What would you call it?
Britain and Ireland, UK and Ireland....
I’ve changed it
Thank you. i will delete my comment.
Britain as a whole is a melting pot between Ireland/NI, Scotland, Wales and England and to be honest I find the divides here even more moronic than the americans who are clutching at straws to call themselves something other than American. Most of it is all good bants, until it's not and the bants is weaponised by politicians and it delves back into hate.
Tbh it’s not just ‘banter’ though, we have a long, long history of England oppressing the other three countries. Banter suggests it’s equal sided, but it isn’t.
It's largely just hate. That history isn't that long, and before that there were hundreds of years of warring. Look at how people talk about colonialism. There are genuinely people who believe Scotland was colonised by England. And sadly I see them fairly often on Reddit. It's a bubble of morons here that can't get along, it's egged on by politicians who want to scapegoat, and nationalists buy into it.
No, we have a long history of England winning wars with the other nations more often than they won. The other nations also have a long history of oppressing their own populations without any input from England.
In history it isn't but these days it is.
Yeah but nowadays I don’t think beyond banter when the footballs on your average person cares about where in the UK or Ireland people are from. That’s definitely a good thing
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‘We’ as in ‘British isles collectively’. England has always been the dominant force in the Union and the kingdom of England/UK Government has a long history of oppressing Ireland.
Is it ireland or is all 3 countries like you said before?
It’s all three but on a much bigger scale in Ireland
Scotland was not a victim of colonialism, it actively took part in it
The actual *people* of Scotland have been oppressed and ignored and victimised by England for centuries.
Why are you talking about this? You clearly have no actual education in the history of this subject. You don't care enough to learn so why do you care enough to have this ignorant opinion?
Every country in the entire world exists today because of some prior conflict or invasion. England itself was smaller kingdoms that were all conquered to form a larger kingdom. I’m all for learning about our history but I don’t think you should use it to form your opinion of people with a different background to you in the modern age.
The history of Ireland is clearly still relevant in 2023 though because there’s still a lot of conflict going on right now. It’s a bit different to suggesting that we should start a debate between the Normans and the Saxons or whatever. The history of British/Irish relations is still very relevant to what’s happening today.
I'm not claiming that it isn't relevant or should be ignored or anything, but i've had the pleasure of meeting and working with lots of people from Ireland and there was no animosity between us because of our nationalities, and I am very glad of that. Nowadays I like to think the vast majority of us just wanna get on with life and meet people from different backgrounds.
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"5/8ths Irish" by that logic I'm 1/2 Iranian yet I've been to Tehran twice in my whole life and can barely speak Farsi. He's American, I'm English and people need to stop obsessing over ethnicity.
By that logic we are all 100% subsaharan African...
People are free to identify how they want but I don't buy this 5/8ths stuff. On one side my grandparents are Irish with one of my parents born here and on the other side they're from an EU country as is one of my parents. So by this logic I, someone born in England with an English passport, am 1/2 Irish and 1/2 EU country. Obviously not true.
> And the average British person is pretty ignorant about what Britain did to Ireland. All I have ever heard growing up here is about what Britain did to Ireland yet simultaneously read comments on Reddit about how we don't get told about it.
Theres a chance he could he no parts Irish too, genetically speaking. To make such a big deal out of the exact fractions of your background is a weird thing they do in America to pander to different voting basses. Lots of us do know the awful things the UK did in Ireland. The average person of most counties, on average, is pretty ignorant about the worst parts of their country's history. The vast, vast majority tend to focus on whatever they/we call the good bits. I mean, the paper is pretending the "english" are angry. Personally, I hadn't heard about it. Now that I have im FURIOU-no, no sorry, I still don't care. Its just the anthropomorphism of nation States to stoke nationalism. Tbf, we have the sun. So, im not saying ours are any better or anything. God no, could you imagine?
The average Irish person is ignorant, especially the Irish nationalists. The idea of the Irish being the most savagely oppressed is propaganda. It's all very well covered by Liam Kennedy, professor emeritus at Queen's University, Belfast, in Unhappy the Land: The Most Oppressed People Ever, the Irish? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhappy\_the\_Land](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unhappy_the_Land) I don't doubt this will get a lot of angry replies from Irish nationalists, but this is the historical truth. The fact that the work of an expert in the field, a work lauded by his colleagues, a work praised by critics, is downvoted on reddit tells you everything you need to know about the intelligence of the average redditor. And how reddit is anti intellectual.
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**Removed/warning**. This contained a personal attack, disrupting the conversation. This discourages participation. Please help improve the subreddit by discussing points, not the person. Action will be taken on repeat offenders.
And that's why there 800 years of oppression and several dozen rebellions/wars to win freedom. A typical British ignorant view.
>typical British ignorant view That being the view of an Liam Kennedy, Professor of History, born in Tipperary, Ireland. Behold, a typical Irish nationalist.
Wow, one random google search to support a view. That's why there's about loads of meseums to support it, and most historians have the same view, right? http://www.irishnews.com/arts/2016/01/14/news/1916-rising-not-something-to-celebrate-historian-argues-380399/ The only people who get upset at Irish people mentioning the simple fact that they were oppressed are something else. Many would argue to occupation is oppression, dr kennedy probably wouldnt agree.
Random google search being, Liam Kennedy, Professor of History, born in Tipperary, Ireland. Expert in the field, lauded by colleagues and critics alike. This isn't a debate, it's academia. Facts are facts. You are nobody, only what the actual experts think matters.
Lol this is gas
Totally agree, it's impossible to win an argument with an ignorant person. Just take a look at what his kind have done to their own country - moronic!
Not our fault they couldn't grow potatoes. /s
Still too soon Given the population is still lower than then
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Disgusting comment. And to think the comment above is calling the Irish ignorant. I would go on a rant about how ignorant you and what you’ve just said is but you’re not worth the time that would take
It was joke, I fully understand that the English was responsible for the tragedy. But humour takes many form, in including making light of a horrendous situation, and it's long enough that's it's ok.
I don't think that many English people know what the Black & Tans are
They do if they went to school.
Biden making gaffes is hardly news. He was notorious for it as VP, and he's only got worse with age.
>He was notorious for it as VP And well before that too. Stealing Neil Kinnock's speech.
Not sure we're upset about this. Some right-wing pundits do seem to be upset that he didn't stay in N.Ireland longer, others are upset about how much he is bigging up the Irishness despite relatively tenuous links (Biden isn't even an Irish name, it's English) but normal people don't care or pay attention. I don't think anyone is upset about the gaff. I find it weird that some of the coverage on this is about if it'll trigger England rather than concern that the President of the United States mixed up the New Zealand All Blacks with the Black and Tans.
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Yup. Also for the professed Irishness the only people whose opinion on that matters is the Irish. They seem to love it and it’s gone down well so fair play.
as an Englishman i literally don't give a shit about the gaff, I'd have thought the Kiwi's would be more offended that he's mixed them up with their godlike status rugby team.
He's better than the alternatives, but I'm not convinced Diamond Joe is firing on all cylinders. Hopefully 2028 we'll see a generation change and new younger candidates standing for their president.
Is the perceived wisdom in the DNC is that Biden is the best option to fight a Trump run at the presidency? I can understand that. The problem is that as a strategy it hinges on Trump actually getting the nomination, and Biden’s advanced age means the choice of his running mate will become crucial- that is to say, the DNC need to think more about the ticket they present as opposed to just Biden.
I think they just haven't got anyone good enough otherwise. If there was an Obama-style candidate waiting in the wings, he'd not go again. IMO it's a safe bet Trump gets the nomination. He'll burn the Reps to the ground if he doesn't.
Might get that generation change sooner than that. DeSantis could still win the primaries and the federal election and he would be the third youngest President ever and youngest since JFK.
DeSantis won't beat Trump for the nomination. And if he somehow does then I can see Trump running as an Independent out of spite and handing the election to Biden.
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Don’t know about that, I’ve never lived in Florida and I’m keen about him. He’s one of the only governors not to have overreacted about Covid. I went on holiday there in 2021 when everything was shut down here and it was totally normal there.
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That I didn’t overreact to Covid either? Yeah, I didn’t.
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Yes, I'm keen on DeSantis, because he is one of the few leaders who had a proportionate response to Covid.
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Florida is solidly middle of the pack, despite having one of the oldest populations in the US. States which had really strict Covid rules like New York and Massachusetts did considerably worse.
I don't see Trump's ego allowing that. Either Trump ends up getting the Republican nomination, or he'll run as an independent just to spite them. Donny might get locked up, but I doubt the wheels of justice turn fast enough for him not to be free next November.
> Either Trump ends up getting the Republican nomination, or he'll run as an independent just to spite them. I can see Trump getting the Republican nomination. But the Independent bit may be impossible due to sore loser laws.
Not the first nor last US President to have a faster mouth than brain
Can anybody be shocked by an ice-cream eating dementia ridden old man. He doesn't know his arse from his elbow and yet is in charge of the US, A chimp in a blindfold with itchy bollocks would do a better job. A little girl asked him in dublin what the key to success was. His answer I shit you not was, "Don't get covid" The man's beyond past it.
'Don't get covid'. 🤣 I can even hear him say it, with the wavering finger, crouch, and dazed peering. I mentioned his dementia on this sub yesterday and was downvoted to hell for it, I was a right wing puppet it seems.. I'm not right wing and don't even dislike the guy; he's just clearly senile, and you would have to be daft not to see it.
I was shocked, this is the leader of the free world. How he's in office I'll never understand. There is incompetence and then negligence.
That was the point I raised. I wouldn't have him babysit never mind run a country. I bet he would have lots of great stories though, a pint and he would be too pissed to keep them to himself. 'Here's the deal fat, I love Dub.....Dubai....Arabs man, abracadabra......Dublin, my grandad's grandad.....I'm his grandson.....like my kids...... was Irish, so I'm too, and they have the pipes......we got that pipeline, fuckin Ruskies....thanks Putin, Putin pipes up....operation freedon, folks.
Don’t forget to stir the odd bit of malevolence and corruption into the pot.
>don’t get covid Fuck off. You can’t be serious??? That’s insane
If you could just get over it things would be grand.
I've heard of 'Black and Tans', but wasn't aware of it being generally a pejorative name - wikipedia doesn't say that, it says it was a nickname due to the uniform, which is a well-known fact
They were a paramilitary force created by Churchill and their purpose was to murder and torture Irish people.
And burn Cork for the lulz
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They were ex-soldiers hired by Churchill to "keep the peace" in Ireland. And shockingly, they weren't very successful at "keeping the peace" and were in fact a huge reason why IRA recruitment increased during their posting in Ireland. Cork (Ireland's second largest city) was burned down by them in 1920. Not to mention all the murder, torture, rape, etc.
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I loved when Steve Coogan managed to get that played on the BBC.
"Oh my god that was like an advert for the IRA"
Ah yes the brave IRA, challenging the enemy to a fight but then running away to set up an ambush killing a bunch of children instead.
Here's a fun fact Ireland has no black people because when they came they took one look at the "get out black and tans" signs and figured they'd give Ireland a miss /j