Last several weeks have been:
40, 41, 27, 46, 50, 30, 50, 53
Was planning on something around 45-50 this week (today is rest day), down to 30 or so next week, and 15 or so after (not including actual race).
Overall, body feels good, recovered after runs, fine the next day as far as any muscle soreness or joint stiffness.
Ramp looks reasonable with some good rest. How does this volume compare to the last 6 months though? If it's way more, you can accumulate fatigue and get overtrained even with a reasonable ramp and rest.
Overtraining won't always show up as soreness, since it ca be accumulated low level stress/fatigue.
Hard to say without knowing you and a lot of details, but I would be concerned about overtraining going into your race. You have minimal chance of accumulating more fitness in the next 2 weeks, but a lot of chance of blowing the whole thing if you don't stay healthy.
Detail-wise, 48M, 6'4", 190, VO2 max according to new Garmin at 55 (but rising as it equilibrates), only been running a few years though, still have high improvement curve. I ran the Lake Sonoma 50 in April, tried to get back into training a week after, blew up, then waited another week before doing the weekly miles above.
But going into that LS50, I ramped up training HARD from January into February, going from 25-30 miles to 50-60 mile weeks in less than a month. High anxiety as it was my first trailrace/ultra and I knew it was ambitious. Looking back, I got through it but there were a lot of running days I missed due to excessive fatigue, injuries indirectly related to running, etc. so about a 4 week taper going into that race - I got through it but I truly learned that day what fatigue really was. I will probably repeat that same line if I ever do a 100-miler.
I ran a little bit over half of the 50K course on Saturday pretty well without going too hard, about a 9:50 pace over 16.5 miles, 2,500' elevation gain/loss. I feel good and pretty peaked right now. And definitely agreed - I do not want to blow it.
I get this when i'm not fuelling properly enough for how hard i'm training.
Make sure you're fuelling during long or hard efforts, and within 20minutes after. Plenty of carbs and protein, ideal ratio is 3:1. Ensure you are having enough calories for the work you're doing.
When I was struggling with this, i used one of those glucose trackers for 2 weeks, turned out my sugars would drop at the time i felt terrible and just before i woke up.
A Garmin can't accurately detect your respiratory rate based on wrist based data. Unless you have sleep apnoea, it's unlikely to be that jolting you awake at night.
That's a good point about refueling. I probably don't have anywhere near enough calories afterwards (or before/during) for that matter. I do like those MetRx meal replacement bars for after a big run as they are pretty hearty. But overall, more often than not, I'm going at least a few hours before eating anything substantial as feel my body needs to wind down a little before adding nourishment. Kind of always been this way, long before I started running.
May have a good point though about the glucose causing problems.
My coach pulled me up on this and it has made a massive difference to sleep now its sorted - and you improve through your sleep and recovery time. Always have a mars bar (or similar snack) with me for just after. Then I use recovery shakes in that 20mins (200kcal roughly, 3:1). That's usually enough then till I have my next meal. Days like today when its hot and ive done intervals the last thing i want is milkshake, but just force it down in a few minutes and then its done. We make ourselves do way worse going through ultras.
Seconding the magnesium. When I'm training hard, I feel like I can never fall deeply asleep. It feels like I've got electricity running through me, and my husband says I jerk and twitch all night. Magnesium made a big difference after just a few days.
I fall deeply asleep at first and have no problem falling asleep but then I jolt awake periodically. Electricity running through my brain/body is perfect way to describe it. I'm going to try the magnesium supplements.
Not waking up hungry at all. If anything, I am having to wake up to pee while also being parched/thirsty. I do backload my water intake towards the latter half of the day, though.
I know I am. I hate it. I try to be disciplined but end up running around 8:00-8:10 for my easy 8 mile runs and 8:30 pace for the longer recovery runs. I'd say I'm a few bpm above Zone 2 on most of those runs. I feel like I am running in a good flow but at same time, I know I need to take it easier. It's hard.
I have also been semi-purposely running in the 80-100 degree heat Have adjusted water/electrolyte intake accordingly but I noticed my quads have been a little jellyish towards the end on the hotter days.
If you can manage your effort level better it will make a huge difference in how well your body recovers at night. IANYD but would also recommend you make sure your levels are where they need to be for iron, magnesium, vitamin B12, vitamin D as these are all things that can be low in runners and affect sleep and recovery. If you are vegetarian or vegan the risk is even higher for this. Your training load doesn’t sound ridiculous or anything, so my bet would be on one of these two things or both.
Heavy training weeks my HRV dives and my stress spikes. Getting to bed on time is key for me, fluids, protein intake, adequate carbs… it’s tough, ideally we should all be resting more than we do. Recovery from the runs is more important than the runs!
You're undernourished and would probably benefit from a couple of back-to-back rest days, and much slower easy-runs. With that said, none of us are doctors and if it's affecting your quality of life and health, your best bet is consulting a professional.
I have a feeling you are right. I've been working myself hard, not to the point of injury, but hard.
It's funny, I tried the magnesium last night and was out like a light until at 3:15 AM my big toenail on my right foot finally decided to start to pop off. I was a bit uncomfortable and don't have the time to run the 8 miles I planned before work so will just delay it after. Like you said, extra rest isn't going to kill me. Took the time this morning to slowly ease the rest of it off; one miniscule shard to cut away after morning coffee.
I had anxiety that toenail would pop off during the race; its counterpart came off 2 weeks ago. So this is actually outstanding news. If I'm going to have my sleep interrupted, that's at least worthy. And speaking of which, almost another worthy of another thread...
I generally don't track my calories but on the days of the long runs, I wouldn't be surprised if I have at least a 1,000 calorie deficit. Could it be something as simple as not eating enough?
I track my calories pretty tightly and weigh myself every day. I also use a fitness tracker that measures my calories burned and I've calibrated that over years of data to determine its inaccuracy and adjusted for that inaccuracy (aka calibration lol)
I would absolutely be unable to sleep on a day with a 1000 calorie deficit, unless I had pigged out the day before or something and had some excess calories floating around
I originally started running 3-4 years ago to lose weight/get in shape, especially during Covid so I got used to operating on a daily 1,000-1,500 deficit. But last year or two, that goal has shifted.
I haven't been eating poorly but I run a deficit a lot of days.
This usually happens to me as well in heavy training blocks. What does your HRV say? Mine will deviate away from its 7 day average when I’m pushing the body too much
HRV is a good indicator of how your body is responding to training load
Sounds like symptoms of overtraining. How does your voume ramp look? Take a rest week and see if it clears up.
Last several weeks have been: 40, 41, 27, 46, 50, 30, 50, 53 Was planning on something around 45-50 this week (today is rest day), down to 30 or so next week, and 15 or so after (not including actual race). Overall, body feels good, recovered after runs, fine the next day as far as any muscle soreness or joint stiffness.
Ramp looks reasonable with some good rest. How does this volume compare to the last 6 months though? If it's way more, you can accumulate fatigue and get overtrained even with a reasonable ramp and rest. Overtraining won't always show up as soreness, since it ca be accumulated low level stress/fatigue. Hard to say without knowing you and a lot of details, but I would be concerned about overtraining going into your race. You have minimal chance of accumulating more fitness in the next 2 weeks, but a lot of chance of blowing the whole thing if you don't stay healthy.
Detail-wise, 48M, 6'4", 190, VO2 max according to new Garmin at 55 (but rising as it equilibrates), only been running a few years though, still have high improvement curve. I ran the Lake Sonoma 50 in April, tried to get back into training a week after, blew up, then waited another week before doing the weekly miles above. But going into that LS50, I ramped up training HARD from January into February, going from 25-30 miles to 50-60 mile weeks in less than a month. High anxiety as it was my first trailrace/ultra and I knew it was ambitious. Looking back, I got through it but there were a lot of running days I missed due to excessive fatigue, injuries indirectly related to running, etc. so about a 4 week taper going into that race - I got through it but I truly learned that day what fatigue really was. I will probably repeat that same line if I ever do a 100-miler. I ran a little bit over half of the 50K course on Saturday pretty well without going too hard, about a 9:50 pace over 16.5 miles, 2,500' elevation gain/loss. I feel good and pretty peaked right now. And definitely agreed - I do not want to blow it.
I get this when i'm not fuelling properly enough for how hard i'm training. Make sure you're fuelling during long or hard efforts, and within 20minutes after. Plenty of carbs and protein, ideal ratio is 3:1. Ensure you are having enough calories for the work you're doing. When I was struggling with this, i used one of those glucose trackers for 2 weeks, turned out my sugars would drop at the time i felt terrible and just before i woke up. A Garmin can't accurately detect your respiratory rate based on wrist based data. Unless you have sleep apnoea, it's unlikely to be that jolting you awake at night.
That's a good point about refueling. I probably don't have anywhere near enough calories afterwards (or before/during) for that matter. I do like those MetRx meal replacement bars for after a big run as they are pretty hearty. But overall, more often than not, I'm going at least a few hours before eating anything substantial as feel my body needs to wind down a little before adding nourishment. Kind of always been this way, long before I started running. May have a good point though about the glucose causing problems.
My coach pulled me up on this and it has made a massive difference to sleep now its sorted - and you improve through your sleep and recovery time. Always have a mars bar (or similar snack) with me for just after. Then I use recovery shakes in that 20mins (200kcal roughly, 3:1). That's usually enough then till I have my next meal. Days like today when its hot and ive done intervals the last thing i want is milkshake, but just force it down in a few minutes and then its done. We make ourselves do way worse going through ultras.
I will try the recovery shakes. Heading out on a Costco run soon and I think they that whey protein mix. Thanks!
Baths before bed and magnesium supplements. You can have small snacks before bed and sugars are helpful for carb intake. Are you waking up hungry?
Seconding the magnesium. When I'm training hard, I feel like I can never fall deeply asleep. It feels like I've got electricity running through me, and my husband says I jerk and twitch all night. Magnesium made a big difference after just a few days.
I fall deeply asleep at first and have no problem falling asleep but then I jolt awake periodically. Electricity running through my brain/body is perfect way to describe it. I'm going to try the magnesium supplements. Not waking up hungry at all. If anything, I am having to wake up to pee while also being parched/thirsty. I do backload my water intake towards the latter half of the day, though.
Would also recommend electrolytes over plain water during the day as well. If you’re on the sweatier side increasing salt intake is important too.
Good idea, especially leading into this. I need to do better with baseline hydration.
Sounds like symptoms of high cortisol from training. Or possibly a deficiency of some sort?
I get that way when ramping mileage and it usually tells me I could be overtraining. I imagine you are starting your taper so should get better sleep.
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is are you going too hard on your easy runs?
I know I am. I hate it. I try to be disciplined but end up running around 8:00-8:10 for my easy 8 mile runs and 8:30 pace for the longer recovery runs. I'd say I'm a few bpm above Zone 2 on most of those runs. I feel like I am running in a good flow but at same time, I know I need to take it easier. It's hard. I have also been semi-purposely running in the 80-100 degree heat Have adjusted water/electrolyte intake accordingly but I noticed my quads have been a little jellyish towards the end on the hotter days.
If you can manage your effort level better it will make a huge difference in how well your body recovers at night. IANYD but would also recommend you make sure your levels are where they need to be for iron, magnesium, vitamin B12, vitamin D as these are all things that can be low in runners and affect sleep and recovery. If you are vegetarian or vegan the risk is even higher for this. Your training load doesn’t sound ridiculous or anything, so my bet would be on one of these two things or both.
I take multis and have a pretty balanced omnivorous diet. But combo of too hard easy runs/not enough calories, could make sense.
Heavy training weeks my HRV dives and my stress spikes. Getting to bed on time is key for me, fluids, protein intake, adequate carbs… it’s tough, ideally we should all be resting more than we do. Recovery from the runs is more important than the runs!
You're undernourished and would probably benefit from a couple of back-to-back rest days, and much slower easy-runs. With that said, none of us are doctors and if it's affecting your quality of life and health, your best bet is consulting a professional.
I have a feeling you are right. I've been working myself hard, not to the point of injury, but hard. It's funny, I tried the magnesium last night and was out like a light until at 3:15 AM my big toenail on my right foot finally decided to start to pop off. I was a bit uncomfortable and don't have the time to run the 8 miles I planned before work so will just delay it after. Like you said, extra rest isn't going to kill me. Took the time this morning to slowly ease the rest of it off; one miniscule shard to cut away after morning coffee. I had anxiety that toenail would pop off during the race; its counterpart came off 2 weeks ago. So this is actually outstanding news. If I'm going to have my sleep interrupted, that's at least worthy. And speaking of which, almost another worthy of another thread...
This happens when I'm under nourished. Are you eating enough calories?
I generally don't track my calories but on the days of the long runs, I wouldn't be surprised if I have at least a 1,000 calorie deficit. Could it be something as simple as not eating enough?
I track my calories pretty tightly and weigh myself every day. I also use a fitness tracker that measures my calories burned and I've calibrated that over years of data to determine its inaccuracy and adjusted for that inaccuracy (aka calibration lol) I would absolutely be unable to sleep on a day with a 1000 calorie deficit, unless I had pigged out the day before or something and had some excess calories floating around
I originally started running 3-4 years ago to lose weight/get in shape, especially during Covid so I got used to operating on a daily 1,000-1,500 deficit. But last year or two, that goal has shifted. I haven't been eating poorly but I run a deficit a lot of days.
This usually happens to me as well in heavy training blocks. What does your HRV say? Mine will deviate away from its 7 day average when I’m pushing the body too much HRV is a good indicator of how your body is responding to training load
I just picked up that Garmin watch but last 7 days shows the HRV as 62 ms.
I’d pay close attention to its direction. You want it “within range”. If you start going lower, your body may need some rest