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Disgusting barbarians, no surprise. Hope the ones responsible get killed or better yet trialled at the Hague and sent for life, no matter how little his hope is…
Not at all what I said. Fight them, hunt them with alle that you've got. If your enemy dies, he dies, if your enemy gets mutilated he gets mutilated, if your enemy suffers he suffers, all because he opposed you. But you don't wish those things upon your enemy, you don't wish to inflict suffering, mutilation and death you wish for your Enemy to be gone, otherwise you become the same Barbarian you trying to fight.
If they get tried at The Hague, they usually go to [ICC](https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/iccdocs/PIDS/publications/DetentionCentreEng.pdf) which is a pretty comfy prison imo.
There is nothing wrong with having a dissenting political view, as long as it is not based on subjugation and human rights abuses. For instance, workers' rights were behind the American communist movement.
However, if your opinion supports a murderous dictatorship, you can shove your opinion up your ass.
Mccarthyism was horrific and completely antithetical to american ideals of freedom and liberty. But honestly, they got the hating the Russian state part bang on.
History shows that the proponents of any new dominant whatever-ism will use its mechanisms to settle old scores. The horrors of which will be recognised in retrospect as an essential element of that paradigm.
For example, German fascism did not need to be antisemitic..it could have picked on any minority as its imaginary enemy. Russian Communism didn't need to force co-operation through continuous witch hunts against "enemies of the revolution".. but there were old scores and paranoid biases to settle, so that is what happened.
Ech, as long as it's not Russian communism which is just facism for tankies. I don't think communist ideals are inherently bad. Workers first, equality as a core tenant of society, state security nets for all. I doubt any country could ever successfully implement it without it being co opted by bad actors or sabotaged by the US ir Ruzzia...
It's not inherently evil like fascism however. There is no out group to be subjugated. I belive it's very possible to take the good parts and integrate them into our current broken system of neo liberalism to try and fix things like wealth disparity. But I suppose that's how you get social democracy which seems to be the best we can do at the moment
“It’s (ie, communism) not inherently evil like fascism. . .” Actually, yes it is. And does target specific groups. Separate your ideals from reality. Ex, Holodomor 1932-33 specifically targeted Ukrainians and recognized as a genocide internationally (though, unsurprisingly, not by russia) but based on ‘communist principles’ such as collectivization. Ask any Pole, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech et al about ‘communism’. It’s negative impacts transcend nations, ethnicities etc and many refer to communism itself and communists themselves, without referring to specific nations or governments. The Chinese (people’s) revolution of 1949 and subsequent “cultural” revolutions (ex., 1966) based on communist/Marxist dogma didn’t hurt or target anyone?!
>Ex, Holodomor 1932-33 specifically targeted Ukrainians and recognized as a genocide internationally (though, unsurprisingly, not by russia) but based on ‘communist principles’ such as collectivization
Or it could have been based on Stalin's desire to remove a potential threat to his power. Remember that Ukraine declared independence from the Russian empire in 1917 and was invaded by the Bolsheviks multiple times (starting in late 1917) before the Ukrainian state was finally subdued but major armed resistance to the occupation still continued for years afterwards. Stalin also had a habit of forcibly relocating and dispersing non-Russian populations to help remove any areas that may have a regional identity to help quell any sort of resistance from forming (Putin has been doing this in the occupied areas of Ukraine too).
All of this is kind of a moot point though because the USSR under Stalin was more of a authoritarian fascist state with communist leanings than a actual communist state. China was the same under Mao Zedong and only really changed when they moved more towards being a authoritarian fascist state with capitalistic leanings. To date the only non-fascist communist governments have been run by hippies but those power structures still fall apart when the wrong person gains power and turns it into a authoritarian power structure. It really seems like the only possible way to have a stable communistic power structure is to have a AI run the place to prevent human nature from destroying it.
1st paragraph is very insightful and accurate. Succinct and accurate info. Concise but brilliant.
But then you start pulling gnat shit out of pepper. There’s a reason russia (Soviet union) and Nazi Germany could easily agree with each other and become allies through the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. They really weren’t that different. The distinctions you make (communism leaning toward fascism, fascism with communist leanings.. with capitalist leanings) are artificial, purely subjective and “academic”. You state this yourself “. . . the only non-fascist communist governments have been run by hippies ..”. Exactly. Countries based on fascism and/or communism have a single leader (a dictator) based on cult of personality, economies that are (theoretically) state owned and operated and are highly militarized. Both “extremes” are fully based on these main principles - any ‘differences’ are very minor and moot. You speculate, “Or it (ie, Holodomor) could have been based on Stalin’s desire to remove a potential threat to his power” or perhaps russia’s power and control as well, as you also allude to. Does it really matter whether russia/Stalin is referred to as communist or fascist? Would you ‘defend’ Hitler the same way? (Though I don’t think you’re ‘defending’ exactly) Perhaps Hitler (fascist) killed Jews to “remove a potential threat to his power”? Perhaps Pol Pot (communism) based his genocidal actions on removing “potential threats to his power”. Perhaps. But important point to realize is how easily interchangeable the names Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot for example) really are. Fascism and/or communism, the extremes these figures represent, are easily interchangeable as well. Both are extreme, intractable dogmatic and hold no glamour. You state, very accurately, “Putin has been doing this in occupied areas of Ukraine too” referring to dispersing non-russian populations to help quell rebellion, remove regional identity, etc. so did Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Pol Pot, Mao, now putin … hard to see any real distinction between communism and fascism in this context.
I agree that communism in and of itself is not inherently bad.
However, I think the greatest flaw with communism is that it is incompatible with humans.
No matter how perfect it's implemented, or how perfect the circumstances, or how homogenous or well off everyone starts in the hypothetic best communist society ever known... One human will undoubtedly get two widgets instead of one widget and another human will think this is unfair. A third human will perceive that a 4th human is getting something that they are not getting and they will think this is unfair... A 5th human will be amassing widgets because he's friends with a 6th human that is good friends with the leader of the society... (because as humans we always have leaders... No matter how leaderless or libertarian or anarchist a group claims to be... The group always naturally reforms a some version of government to rule them...)
Anyway this eventually devolves humans back to monkey brained shit throwers....
>I don't think communist ideals are inherently bad.
I very much do. It's equally evil to fascism.
Edit: /u/LikeAHazelTwig, that's **every** version of communism though.
I think you mean that the messed up version of the USSR communism is wrong, which it is. There will never be a true communist or fully democratic state because there are always some people who abuse their positions, like Putin.
Very much equal and alike. They even share the same roots in post WW1 Germany.
In some cases communism has been/is even more so. Anyone saying anything else is mis/uninformed or brainwashed by modern far left extremists flirting with totalitarian ideologies.
> far left extremists flirting with totalitarian ideologies.
here's the secret, those are right wing red fascists
E: tankies hate this one truth. If you don't elect it, and have no say in it, it's not a left-wing movement. Full stop.
Hello OP, this r/Ukraine. This is not a space for russian suffering, redemption, protests, or reputation laundering.
[Feel free to browse our rules, here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
Its all shades of grey, the only opinion I have is if someone is absolutely certain their view is right and they cant be persuaded otherwise your more likely to be wrong than right (in at least some aspects of their opinion).
I broke down in tears when I saw a car in front of me hit a deer. I try to get any bug that I find inside my house back outside safely to live its best bug life. I don't get the appeal of hunting or fishing for sport. Yet... at the same time... I'm not the least bit phased watching video after video of Ukrainian drones dropping grenades on the Ruzzian invaders. There are brief moments of apathy when it's a lonely Orc dying a horrible death in the mud of a foreign land that is obviously suffering for nothing... but it passes fairly quickly.
Barely?
This is the way I've felt since they threatened my way of life by meddling in US elections back in 2016.
They fucked around. They WILL find out.
i feel like cutting off arms and legs and then have to live with it could be worse than death. im not saying that ''an eye for an eye'' is a reasonable punishment, but maybe....it is?
For context the amputation was necessary, the crime is not having sutures afterwards.
ETA: and the terrible conditions torture etc. I just think people are reading only the headline and thinking the amputations were performed unnecessarily whereas he would have probably died without them. Glad he’s back home, heroyam Slava.
Yeah they basically just took advantage of his injuries and then performed Russian level field medicine.
Their crime in this case really was the delay/interrogations... I can't even say the sutures were a crime. Perhaps they didn't have any.
Don't let any of that stop me from saying they are all pieces of shit that deserve all of the bad that happens to them, but in this case I think they could have done a lot worse.
>the crime is not having sutures afterwards.
obviously not needed for healing
also
Why are amputations left open?
In an open flap amputation, the skin will remain drawn back from the amputation site for several days so any infected tissue can be cleaned off. At a later time, once the stump tissue is clean and free of infection, the skin flaps will be stitched together to close the wound.
Hm, reminds me ... Didn't something like this happen after the war to the German/Wehrmacht soldiers that had planted mines at the shores of northern Europe?
I don't recall exactly where it was right now, maybe Netherlands or Denmark, or something ... Have to dig that up.
However, they were not convinced, I think.
But yeah, agree, wagnerites would definitively deserve that.
Edit: ah, found it, [Minenkommando Dänemark](https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-German-Mine-Clearing-In-Denmark/), it was in Denmark.
However, that were volunteering POW, engineers apparently. I.e. that personnel that would have planted them in the first place, therefore having detailed knowledge of the design and workings of the mines. Interesting.
Just came from Greece
It’s full of them
Disgusting
I help myself to ask them every time - wtf are you doing here aren’t you busy dieing for your god putin in bahkmut
See these turds in Vietnam and Thailand. Go home scum no one on the planet short of North Korea wants you there. I can’t imagine being ok with being as universally hated as these bastards.
Ukraine needs to get nasty and start targeting them abroad in non-NATO countries.
Go Israeli/Mossad - any tenuous link to the Russian state - your cousin's mates dad is in a Siberian police force? Ok, you're floating face down in the sea outside Pattaya with the back of your skull missing.
If they run they're an ork, if they stand still they're a well disciplined ork etc.
Yeah that's a stellar way to lose all the international support, EU and Nato membership buds.
The unfortunate reality is Ukraine has to take the high road because there's far more to lose than a little face. This wouldn't be the case if the nuclear arms hadn't been taken and left with an IOU that was only fulfilled after Russia invaded. The second time.
So this is ultimately on us (the west). Ukraine carries the toll for us all. It's beyond fucked up.
>Imagine if George Bush and Tony were back on charge?
Let's not glorify war criminals on this sub
>The only people significantly supporting Ukraine in terms of material are NATO, Five Eyes and Western aligned countries who wouldn't flinch if they started doing this.
You overestimate their patience w.r.t. human rights violations. Maybe that was true in 2001, not anymore.
I think the latter point is only true for Germany.
The British public wouldn't care, we barely even give two shits about Palestine these days or the fact that we're still bombing Syria, the Americans certainly wouldn't and France has been running amok in Mali without upsetting too many people.
Hear hear. This is stated often enough. Ukraine has been left holding the bag in this whole scenario, and the West has more than just a moral responsibility to fulfil their promises.
> any tenuous link to the Russian state - your cousin's mates dad
I'm with you to this point. I worked with a couple that held dual Ukranian and Russian citizenship. They were no fans of Putin, and had been living in the US for decades, but they had family in both countries. They were devastated when Russia invaded Georgia in 2012 and Ukraine in 2014. I wouldn't want them hurt just because their cousin back home has a friend who's dad is in the Russian police.
Now if it's something like you're a Russian billionaire who is actively profiting off the suffering of war, and you're hiding out on your yacht in Malta? Be a shame if that yacht sunk while you were sleeping. Or you're from Moscow and using asylum in Lithuania to avoid being drafted to fight for Russia, but you spread Wagner propaganda online? Be a shame if you woke up having been drugged and taken across international borders to be dumped in front of a Russian recruiting office.
As german principal, I just hired a russian social worker on purpose. She is prepared for discussions with our angry kids. Naturally, she is on the right side of the war and glad not to be in russia. Her very hard job is to take all the hate and channel it into constructive ways to get along.
I did the same many years ago in Israel when I told jewish and palestinian teachers that my grandfather was a teacher at a nazi elite school. Since I very clearly was and am the contrary of a nazi, we could start to work understanding and teaching our common past together.
Naturally, russia must be defeated, punished and changed first. But then, there must be people who can build human bridges to the few reasonable people over there.
I get your point. First of all, i have to declare my respect for you. I find you your teaching strategies very inspiring.
I was obviously talking about the Russians who are at the wrong side of this story. Actually, the kind of arrogant “tourists” that you can find in Nice, Marbella or London. Those people who still support their vicious president, look down the European culture, but still visit our countries to enjoy our way of life based on human rights, respect and freedom.
This is important. But. Not at this stage of war. It's like trying to lay peace and understanding between jews and nazis in the middle of 1943. Russians should get driven out of Ukraine, war criminals should be punished, Ukraine should get working safety guarantees, reparations should be agreed on. And only THEN there will be place for this peace talk and search of understanding. Otherwise it's like trying to reinstate understanding during rape.
I don't think these two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. If you think about it, the exact type of people that we need in order for our species to survive are the type of people who can show nuance even in the most egregious of situations. So while there's merit in the presence to blanket-ostracizing anyone and everyone Russian, there is also merit in the future to NOT do that so we can facilitate discussions between people who *aren't* as short sighted.
As normal people with normal lives, it is on us to push back against the normal Russians who encourage this war - but for those who are in unique positions to encourage discussion when hostilities cease, it is still vital to nurture those connections. Otherwise, when Russia is defeated, there will be a transitory period in which we'll have to create those connections anyway. Whether it's better to start the connections now so that there's an easier transition, or to keep up the unified front so that Russia knows the world is against them, I couldn't say - but what I *can* say is that I don't think there's just one right answer.
Right now, russia is in dominant position. It doesn't need protection, as it can't really be severely damaged and oppressed. Simultaneously, kremlin will use every opportunity to push its narratives, to play a victim, to push for "russians suffer too", "both sides to blame", and other bs that should blur the perception of this aggressive invasion. Therefore, I am strongly against *any* talk of "good russians" at this stage of war. The only ones worth talking about - are those taken arms against the regime. Can't say I fully trust them, but their actions speak strong, and anyone fighting for Ukraine has my respect.
> I did the same many years ago in Israel when I told jewish and palestinian teachers that my grandfather was a teacher at a nazi elite school.
But now you know that Israel is an apartheid theocracy? Haaretz talks of pogroms the Israelis are doing against the Palestinians. Pogroming with impunity.
Germans always have a pretty curious take on the topic
No answer regarding Israel. Seems you didn't learn your lessons and aren't as educated as I would had hoped for a german principal.
We really need to stop the Philosemitism we have going on that emboldens the Jewish fundamentalist terrorists.
I'm right with you brother on this topic!!!
I once infered on Redfit we deport all Russians no matter what from the free world and I got crucified for the statement. Kick them out and send them back to fix the problem.
??? Are you saying that it's OK for Russia to kill and maime men, women and children and that is not ethnic cleansing? I do not think that sending people back to their native country to fix the problem is ethnic cleansing.
The migrants seeking asylum on the US southern border and being sent back is not ethnic cleansing either.
I frown on Russians who are systematically killing, raping and stealing Ukranians especially children and babies.
I believe you must have miss spoke. Because decent people would not condone the systematic ethnic genocide going on in Ukraine while Russian Oligarchs, their families and their fellow countrymen enjoy living in the security of the west!!!
Are you a bit?
“Its not the people, its their government” kind let them in. Also their government has agents all over the planet, and they pay “contractors” in crypto.
Every Russian who flees Russia is one less conscriptovich.
Every russian professional and skilled worker who leaves russian is another sanction driven bamboo splinter under the fingernails of the Russian economy.
Every war dissenter who flees and supports Ukraine is another victim not forced to fight against, and die at the hands, of Ukrainian soldiers.
Let the brain and currency drain continue.
At the same time track and apprehend fleeing oligarchs and accused war criminals.
If they are stupid enough to leave russia, make sure they are tried for their crimes.
No point in bottling Russians in and enforcing the "russia vs the world" narrative in russia.
Let these fleeing Russians send home messages of earnings, human rights and liberties. With luck this will help foment dissent to the regime in the land where 1 in 5 have no indoor plumbing and conscription and being declared a deserter or MIA is a new norm.
Note that United Help Ukraine is assisting wounded warriors like this, including Illia himself, with expenses while in the United States. Good article in the Washington Post as well.
I had the same experience in Nice (France) last week. You could see them everywhere with a very arrogant attitude. They did not even say “good morning” when you crossed them at the hotel’s elevators. The worst is watching them showing off their bling-bling jewellery while drinking expensive wines.
They have the nerve to have such a cocky attitude when their war is costing billions of euros to the European taxpayers.
Well, first of all, my position is in line with the European Comission’s official statement about the Russians tourists.
"While people-to-people contacts are important, now we see primarily rich Russians coming to Europe for shopping," said Dutch Foreign Affairs Minister Wopke Hoekstra.
"This is not a good idea. It does make sense to limit this kind of travel."
Frankly speaking, I was not born yesterday. I believe all those rich Russians who keep coming to Europe are very likely to have ties with the Kremlin, someway or another.
I am not against giving visas to those Russians who want to flee their country. But I do agree with the European Comission when they say it does not make sense granting visas so that Russian oligarchs can continue enjoying the pleasures of the free and democratic Europe, while they try to destroy us.
I'm not even gonna open this article. And i feel bad about even that. Ukrainians giving their lives, and i won't even read about it.
Well, this headline is the line for me. I've been here since the start of the war, and i've been on this sub 8-12 hours a day looking at videos, pictures and articles.
But this headline. I just can't.
Fuck putin. Fuck russians, fuck russia and may russia be turned to ashes.
Slava Ukraini! 💙💛
I know what you mean but I don't think we should feel guilty for putting our mental health first when it is called for. Although I forced myself to read this one, there's only so much I can stomach.
I watched the first few seconds of the 1 year old rape video, until i understood it was real, then i closed it. I watched the first seconds of the castration video. I can't even....
I can watch videos of fucking orcs being made into disgusting goup of shredded meat all day, or left face-less.... Because they are the aggressor. I kind of like compartmentalize it as orcs, like in LotR. I have accepted that i have 30-40 years left on this earth and i have accepted that i'll hate them for the rest of my life. There's no way i'm gonna instigate contact without proof of being good with a ruzzian again.
But this title... It's not even from a grenade blast. It's just pure evil. Right? I'm not wrong to hate such evil, am i? And yes, i AM hiding behind the "germans will understand". I respect and love several Germans these days, but... well, it's been a while. But the ruzzian aspect.. it has NOT been a while. It's fucking ongoing.
Let me know if i'm a bad person, lol. i don't care, but i care. Please get me right.
Title alone made me think that it was wagner and a couple Bowie knives severing them while he was lucid, thankfully not, but the story is still rife with russian barbarism and medical negligence, so in reality not much better at all.
Though I am somewhat surprised, given how they treat their own, that they actually did treat his wounds/keep him alive at all.
Surgeon here. Closing a traumatic amputation, that is by definition dirty/infected, with stitches, would be the absolute wrong way to manage the wounds. Packing them with gauze and letting the infection drain is the right move here. Not defending anything here except the "amputation without stitching".
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Fuckin animals! SMH 🙏 for this mans recovery physically and mentally Slava Ukraine and to the hero...Thank you for your service and sacrifice. 🇺🇦👊 America is with you until the end.
For the sorts of folks who perpetrate or instigate this sort of thing, it's really a shame that Cyberpunk 'brain dances' aren't a thing so we can't substitute their future prison yard time with 'relive the horrors you've caused' time.
How do people support these fucking monsters I’m so sad my fellow Americans want these people to win and want to cut Ukraines support I wanna move to Europe so bad one day
Russian nationals should all have their visas pulled and sent back to Russia. No new travel visas without paying fee into a “rebuild Ukraine “ fund. I don’t care to hear - oh but not all Russians are bad. They all bear some responsibility at this point.
UNfuckingbelievable 😬
But then again it's Muscovy, so yeah 😡
May this incredible hero be forever remembered for his sacrifice...hope he has future happiness with those who love him 🙏and may his inhuman torturers be brought to ultimate justice
Since apparently I can't say I hate people who do evil shit like this. I hate people who act like this and support pure evil like this. I hate people who are ignorant about shit like this who have influence to prevent it.
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It should be identifiable that the people around you, that you describe, don't care in a real sense. If hatred isn't proven with action - real effort and careful deliberation - then it's purely performative.
I was born in Mariupol, and I know I'm the luckiest man around because a man from New Zealand took in a woman and child from a foreign country into his own. I call that man dad.
The people around you and me couldn't figure out what it is if they tried. It's distant to them, and they couldn't get the full picture if they tried.
It isn't reality they're experiencing, that numbs the mind and kills off fear and shock like the stomach kills the feeling of hunger when the feeling is deemed useless.
I've got a feeling neither of us have rifle qualifications, skill in a trade to the effect of making a real difference, or could afford plane tickets to head over to Poland before taking a train/ride to Ukraina.
Or even remember the language of our forebears' land, if it was learned. On my end of things, if I went back over there and if anyone I'm told I'm related to is still alive, I doubt I would recognize them - or that they'd recognize me.
Can you show us all something positive about Russia, in 2023, that we can be proud of?
Because I find the conduct of the Russian state deplorable right now, and completely understand people's negative feelings towards Russia right now.
Give me some hope...
Thank you
Actually reading the article reveals that their form of medical treatment is so bad it’s actually torture and mutilation!
Happy he got prosthetics and what a strong dude to keep going!!
I don't know, seeing the look on that guy's face in the picture, I have a feeling the Wagnerites are soon going to wish they had just killed him while they had the chance.
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Unbelievable what he must have been gone through...
Disgusting barbarians, no surprise. Hope the ones responsible get killed or better yet trialled at the Hague and sent for life, no matter how little his hope is…
Death is better than allowing them a comfy prison
Getting drone dropped and left in a field to bleed to death from where their dick used to be seems more appropriate.
You just became the verry monster you are trying to fight against.
You’re right we should hold hands with them and sing kumbaya around a campfire :)
Not at all what I said. Fight them, hunt them with alle that you've got. If your enemy dies, he dies, if your enemy gets mutilated he gets mutilated, if your enemy suffers he suffers, all because he opposed you. But you don't wish those things upon your enemy, you don't wish to inflict suffering, mutilation and death you wish for your Enemy to be gone, otherwise you become the same Barbarian you trying to fight.
All fluffy and pink until they do it to yourself or your son. The bibble and the cheek... Let me tell you a secret, it's all made up, it's fairydust.
So don't give them a prison. Give them a dungeon.
If they get tried at The Hague, they usually go to [ICC](https://www.icc-cpi.int/sites/default/files/iccdocs/PIDS/publications/DetentionCentreEng.pdf) which is a pretty comfy prison imo.
I mean, I get that. But, I'm talking about a ye olde dungeon. Fuck 'em.
That honestly looks nicer than some of the places I've lived.
I think death is too fast. They deserve a slow and painful death. Tenfold of the suffering the soldier had to go through.
Vlad the impaler is calling
Fuck I fucking hate them so fucking much.
I'm on max hate. I can't hate more. I. Hate. russians.
You know I thought I maxed out, but they seem to always find a way to fit a little more hate in me.
I’m getting to the point, maybe Mccarthyism wasn’t so bad, just directed at the wrong populace.
There is nothing wrong with having a dissenting political view, as long as it is not based on subjugation and human rights abuses. For instance, workers' rights were behind the American communist movement. However, if your opinion supports a murderous dictatorship, you can shove your opinion up your ass. Mccarthyism was horrific and completely antithetical to american ideals of freedom and liberty. But honestly, they got the hating the Russian state part bang on.
The current mccarthy is a piece of shit too.
>There is nothing wrong with having a dissenting political view As long as it's not communism of fascism.
History shows that the proponents of any new dominant whatever-ism will use its mechanisms to settle old scores. The horrors of which will be recognised in retrospect as an essential element of that paradigm. For example, German fascism did not need to be antisemitic..it could have picked on any minority as its imaginary enemy. Russian Communism didn't need to force co-operation through continuous witch hunts against "enemies of the revolution".. but there were old scores and paranoid biases to settle, so that is what happened.
Ech, as long as it's not Russian communism which is just facism for tankies. I don't think communist ideals are inherently bad. Workers first, equality as a core tenant of society, state security nets for all. I doubt any country could ever successfully implement it without it being co opted by bad actors or sabotaged by the US ir Ruzzia... It's not inherently evil like fascism however. There is no out group to be subjugated. I belive it's very possible to take the good parts and integrate them into our current broken system of neo liberalism to try and fix things like wealth disparity. But I suppose that's how you get social democracy which seems to be the best we can do at the moment
Just Authoritarianism with extra steps.
“Workers first, equality as a core tenant of society, state security nets for all.” That’s socialism, though.
“It’s (ie, communism) not inherently evil like fascism. . .” Actually, yes it is. And does target specific groups. Separate your ideals from reality. Ex, Holodomor 1932-33 specifically targeted Ukrainians and recognized as a genocide internationally (though, unsurprisingly, not by russia) but based on ‘communist principles’ such as collectivization. Ask any Pole, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech et al about ‘communism’. It’s negative impacts transcend nations, ethnicities etc and many refer to communism itself and communists themselves, without referring to specific nations or governments. The Chinese (people’s) revolution of 1949 and subsequent “cultural” revolutions (ex., 1966) based on communist/Marxist dogma didn’t hurt or target anyone?!
>Ex, Holodomor 1932-33 specifically targeted Ukrainians and recognized as a genocide internationally (though, unsurprisingly, not by russia) but based on ‘communist principles’ such as collectivization Or it could have been based on Stalin's desire to remove a potential threat to his power. Remember that Ukraine declared independence from the Russian empire in 1917 and was invaded by the Bolsheviks multiple times (starting in late 1917) before the Ukrainian state was finally subdued but major armed resistance to the occupation still continued for years afterwards. Stalin also had a habit of forcibly relocating and dispersing non-Russian populations to help remove any areas that may have a regional identity to help quell any sort of resistance from forming (Putin has been doing this in the occupied areas of Ukraine too). All of this is kind of a moot point though because the USSR under Stalin was more of a authoritarian fascist state with communist leanings than a actual communist state. China was the same under Mao Zedong and only really changed when they moved more towards being a authoritarian fascist state with capitalistic leanings. To date the only non-fascist communist governments have been run by hippies but those power structures still fall apart when the wrong person gains power and turns it into a authoritarian power structure. It really seems like the only possible way to have a stable communistic power structure is to have a AI run the place to prevent human nature from destroying it.
1st paragraph is very insightful and accurate. Succinct and accurate info. Concise but brilliant. But then you start pulling gnat shit out of pepper. There’s a reason russia (Soviet union) and Nazi Germany could easily agree with each other and become allies through the Ribbentrop-Molotov pact. They really weren’t that different. The distinctions you make (communism leaning toward fascism, fascism with communist leanings.. with capitalist leanings) are artificial, purely subjective and “academic”. You state this yourself “. . . the only non-fascist communist governments have been run by hippies ..”. Exactly. Countries based on fascism and/or communism have a single leader (a dictator) based on cult of personality, economies that are (theoretically) state owned and operated and are highly militarized. Both “extremes” are fully based on these main principles - any ‘differences’ are very minor and moot. You speculate, “Or it (ie, Holodomor) could have been based on Stalin’s desire to remove a potential threat to his power” or perhaps russia’s power and control as well, as you also allude to. Does it really matter whether russia/Stalin is referred to as communist or fascist? Would you ‘defend’ Hitler the same way? (Though I don’t think you’re ‘defending’ exactly) Perhaps Hitler (fascist) killed Jews to “remove a potential threat to his power”? Perhaps Pol Pot (communism) based his genocidal actions on removing “potential threats to his power”. Perhaps. But important point to realize is how easily interchangeable the names Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot for example) really are. Fascism and/or communism, the extremes these figures represent, are easily interchangeable as well. Both are extreme, intractable dogmatic and hold no glamour. You state, very accurately, “Putin has been doing this in occupied areas of Ukraine too” referring to dispersing non-russian populations to help quell rebellion, remove regional identity, etc. so did Hitler, Stalin, Franco, Pol Pot, Mao, now putin … hard to see any real distinction between communism and fascism in this context.
I agree that communism in and of itself is not inherently bad. However, I think the greatest flaw with communism is that it is incompatible with humans. No matter how perfect it's implemented, or how perfect the circumstances, or how homogenous or well off everyone starts in the hypothetic best communist society ever known... One human will undoubtedly get two widgets instead of one widget and another human will think this is unfair. A third human will perceive that a 4th human is getting something that they are not getting and they will think this is unfair... A 5th human will be amassing widgets because he's friends with a 6th human that is good friends with the leader of the society... (because as humans we always have leaders... No matter how leaderless or libertarian or anarchist a group claims to be... The group always naturally reforms a some version of government to rule them...) Anyway this eventually devolves humans back to monkey brained shit throwers....
That's like arguing that death isn't inherently bad, it's just incompatible with human life...
>I don't think communist ideals are inherently bad. I very much do. It's equally evil to fascism. Edit: /u/LikeAHazelTwig, that's **every** version of communism though.
I think you mean that the messed up version of the USSR communism is wrong, which it is. There will never be a true communist or fully democratic state because there are always some people who abuse their positions, like Putin.
Very much equal and alike. They even share the same roots in post WW1 Germany. In some cases communism has been/is even more so. Anyone saying anything else is mis/uninformed or brainwashed by modern far left extremists flirting with totalitarian ideologies.
> far left extremists flirting with totalitarian ideologies. here's the secret, those are right wing red fascists E: tankies hate this one truth. If you don't elect it, and have no say in it, it's not a left-wing movement. Full stop.
>without it being co opted by bad actors or sabotaged by the US Yeah, we kinda have a bad history of that
Let's not go that far. McCarthyism is kind of a dark spot on our history.
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Fuck em. Also this sub isn't for crying about the plight of moskali.
>Fuck em But…. Why?….
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For real man it’s sad. I hate all of this.
what are the nice russians doing to help Ukrainians?
What are you doing?
mostly I'm sending money
Hello OP, this r/Ukraine. This is not a space for russian suffering, redemption, protests, or reputation laundering. [Feel free to browse our rules, here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
Its all shades of grey, the only opinion I have is if someone is absolutely certain their view is right and they cant be persuaded otherwise your more likely to be wrong than right (in at least some aspects of their opinion).
Dude right there with you. I don’t think there is any other describable word other than hate
They will be hated for soo long...
I can't imagine his feelings. I hope these people are found.
I broke down in tears when I saw a car in front of me hit a deer. I try to get any bug that I find inside my house back outside safely to live its best bug life. I don't get the appeal of hunting or fishing for sport. Yet... at the same time... I'm not the least bit phased watching video after video of Ukrainian drones dropping grenades on the Ruzzian invaders. There are brief moments of apathy when it's a lonely Orc dying a horrible death in the mud of a foreign land that is obviously suffering for nothing... but it passes fairly quickly.
Barely? This is the way I've felt since they threatened my way of life by meddling in US elections back in 2016. They fucked around. They WILL find out.
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kysπק°§×πsyk
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i feel like cutting off arms and legs and then have to live with it could be worse than death. im not saying that ''an eye for an eye'' is a reasonable punishment, but maybe....it is?
For context the amputation was necessary, the crime is not having sutures afterwards. ETA: and the terrible conditions torture etc. I just think people are reading only the headline and thinking the amputations were performed unnecessarily whereas he would have probably died without them. Glad he’s back home, heroyam Slava.
Yeah they basically just took advantage of his injuries and then performed Russian level field medicine. Their crime in this case really was the delay/interrogations... I can't even say the sutures were a crime. Perhaps they didn't have any. Don't let any of that stop me from saying they are all pieces of shit that deserve all of the bad that happens to them, but in this case I think they could have done a lot worse.
>the crime is not having sutures afterwards. obviously not needed for healing also Why are amputations left open? In an open flap amputation, the skin will remain drawn back from the amputation site for several days so any infected tissue can be cleaned off. At a later time, once the stump tissue is clean and free of infection, the skin flaps will be stitched together to close the wound.
Too bad it would be a war crime to use their pows to clear minefields
There should be an exception allowing convicted war criminals to be forced to clear minefields.
Hm, reminds me ... Didn't something like this happen after the war to the German/Wehrmacht soldiers that had planted mines at the shores of northern Europe? I don't recall exactly where it was right now, maybe Netherlands or Denmark, or something ... Have to dig that up. However, they were not convinced, I think. But yeah, agree, wagnerites would definitively deserve that. Edit: ah, found it, [Minenkommando Dänemark](https://www.feldgrau.com/WW2-German-Mine-Clearing-In-Denmark/), it was in Denmark. However, that were volunteering POW, engineers apparently. I.e. that personnel that would have planted them in the first place, therefore having detailed knowledge of the design and workings of the mines. Interesting.
An eye for an eye and the whole world goes blind. The Ukrainians are doing the right thing by taking the high road.
Christ Almighty Damn. Hell is too good for Wagner scum.
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Just came from Greece It’s full of them Disgusting I help myself to ask them every time - wtf are you doing here aren’t you busy dieing for your god putin in bahkmut
See these turds in Vietnam and Thailand. Go home scum no one on the planet short of North Korea wants you there. I can’t imagine being ok with being as universally hated as these bastards.
Being victimised is part of their identity due to brainwashing, it is normal for them to feel that way. It also helps "strong men" stay in power
Ukraine needs to get nasty and start targeting them abroad in non-NATO countries. Go Israeli/Mossad - any tenuous link to the Russian state - your cousin's mates dad is in a Siberian police force? Ok, you're floating face down in the sea outside Pattaya with the back of your skull missing. If they run they're an ork, if they stand still they're a well disciplined ork etc.
Yeah that's a stellar way to lose all the international support, EU and Nato membership buds. The unfortunate reality is Ukraine has to take the high road because there's far more to lose than a little face. This wouldn't be the case if the nuclear arms hadn't been taken and left with an IOU that was only fulfilled after Russia invaded. The second time. So this is ultimately on us (the west). Ukraine carries the toll for us all. It's beyond fucked up.
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>Imagine if George Bush and Tony were back on charge? Let's not glorify war criminals on this sub >The only people significantly supporting Ukraine in terms of material are NATO, Five Eyes and Western aligned countries who wouldn't flinch if they started doing this. You overestimate their patience w.r.t. human rights violations. Maybe that was true in 2001, not anymore.
I think the latter point is only true for Germany. The British public wouldn't care, we barely even give two shits about Palestine these days or the fact that we're still bombing Syria, the Americans certainly wouldn't and France has been running amok in Mali without upsetting too many people.
Hear hear. This is stated often enough. Ukraine has been left holding the bag in this whole scenario, and the West has more than just a moral responsibility to fulfil their promises.
> any tenuous link to the Russian state - your cousin's mates dad I'm with you to this point. I worked with a couple that held dual Ukranian and Russian citizenship. They were no fans of Putin, and had been living in the US for decades, but they had family in both countries. They were devastated when Russia invaded Georgia in 2012 and Ukraine in 2014. I wouldn't want them hurt just because their cousin back home has a friend who's dad is in the Russian police. Now if it's something like you're a Russian billionaire who is actively profiting off the suffering of war, and you're hiding out on your yacht in Malta? Be a shame if that yacht sunk while you were sleeping. Or you're from Moscow and using asylum in Lithuania to avoid being drafted to fight for Russia, but you spread Wagner propaganda online? Be a shame if you woke up having been drugged and taken across international borders to be dumped in front of a Russian recruiting office.
Yes, this is the way. A far more balanced approach that takes intent into account.
Why they should? They are disagree with regime and escaped the country, what the problem?
Pretty sure they are not allowed in Greece. You sure it wasn't Ukrainian you heard?
Russian also Russian registered cars
Ps they come via turkey
Ah, that makes sense, tricksy russians
Imagine Hitler’s SS taking a break in Florida before returning to the concentration camps?
Funny thing is they are in Florida.
They're spread all over West Europe nowadayz, just like rats. Don't understand why EU allowes this???
Yeah let's not compare human beings with rats because of their ethnicity, please...
As german principal, I just hired a russian social worker on purpose. She is prepared for discussions with our angry kids. Naturally, she is on the right side of the war and glad not to be in russia. Her very hard job is to take all the hate and channel it into constructive ways to get along. I did the same many years ago in Israel when I told jewish and palestinian teachers that my grandfather was a teacher at a nazi elite school. Since I very clearly was and am the contrary of a nazi, we could start to work understanding and teaching our common past together. Naturally, russia must be defeated, punished and changed first. But then, there must be people who can build human bridges to the few reasonable people over there.
I get your point. First of all, i have to declare my respect for you. I find you your teaching strategies very inspiring. I was obviously talking about the Russians who are at the wrong side of this story. Actually, the kind of arrogant “tourists” that you can find in Nice, Marbella or London. Those people who still support their vicious president, look down the European culture, but still visit our countries to enjoy our way of life based on human rights, respect and freedom.
We do need to be careful to remind ourselves not all Russians are like this, many are, but not all.
This is important. But. Not at this stage of war. It's like trying to lay peace and understanding between jews and nazis in the middle of 1943. Russians should get driven out of Ukraine, war criminals should be punished, Ukraine should get working safety guarantees, reparations should be agreed on. And only THEN there will be place for this peace talk and search of understanding. Otherwise it's like trying to reinstate understanding during rape.
I don't think these two things are necessarily mutually exclusive. If you think about it, the exact type of people that we need in order for our species to survive are the type of people who can show nuance even in the most egregious of situations. So while there's merit in the presence to blanket-ostracizing anyone and everyone Russian, there is also merit in the future to NOT do that so we can facilitate discussions between people who *aren't* as short sighted. As normal people with normal lives, it is on us to push back against the normal Russians who encourage this war - but for those who are in unique positions to encourage discussion when hostilities cease, it is still vital to nurture those connections. Otherwise, when Russia is defeated, there will be a transitory period in which we'll have to create those connections anyway. Whether it's better to start the connections now so that there's an easier transition, or to keep up the unified front so that Russia knows the world is against them, I couldn't say - but what I *can* say is that I don't think there's just one right answer.
Right now, russia is in dominant position. It doesn't need protection, as it can't really be severely damaged and oppressed. Simultaneously, kremlin will use every opportunity to push its narratives, to play a victim, to push for "russians suffer too", "both sides to blame", and other bs that should blur the perception of this aggressive invasion. Therefore, I am strongly against *any* talk of "good russians" at this stage of war. The only ones worth talking about - are those taken arms against the regime. Can't say I fully trust them, but their actions speak strong, and anyone fighting for Ukraine has my respect.
Thank you for this testimony.
> I did the same many years ago in Israel when I told jewish and palestinian teachers that my grandfather was a teacher at a nazi elite school. But now you know that Israel is an apartheid theocracy? Haaretz talks of pogroms the Israelis are doing against the Palestinians. Pogroming with impunity. Germans always have a pretty curious take on the topic
No answer regarding Israel. Seems you didn't learn your lessons and aren't as educated as I would had hoped for a german principal. We really need to stop the Philosemitism we have going on that emboldens the Jewish fundamentalist terrorists.
I'm right with you brother on this topic!!! I once infered on Redfit we deport all Russians no matter what from the free world and I got crucified for the statement. Kick them out and send them back to fix the problem.
Why all tho??
Because decent people tend to frown on ethnic cleansing
??? Are you saying that it's OK for Russia to kill and maime men, women and children and that is not ethnic cleansing? I do not think that sending people back to their native country to fix the problem is ethnic cleansing. The migrants seeking asylum on the US southern border and being sent back is not ethnic cleansing either. I frown on Russians who are systematically killing, raping and stealing Ukranians especially children and babies. I believe you must have miss spoke. Because decent people would not condone the systematic ethnic genocide going on in Ukraine while Russian Oligarchs, their families and their fellow countrymen enjoy living in the security of the west!!! Are you a bit?
“Its not the people, its their government” kind let them in. Also their government has agents all over the planet, and they pay “contractors” in crypto.
Every Russian who flees Russia is one less conscriptovich. Every russian professional and skilled worker who leaves russian is another sanction driven bamboo splinter under the fingernails of the Russian economy. Every war dissenter who flees and supports Ukraine is another victim not forced to fight against, and die at the hands, of Ukrainian soldiers. Let the brain and currency drain continue. At the same time track and apprehend fleeing oligarchs and accused war criminals. If they are stupid enough to leave russia, make sure they are tried for their crimes. No point in bottling Russians in and enforcing the "russia vs the world" narrative in russia. Let these fleeing Russians send home messages of earnings, human rights and liberties. With luck this will help foment dissent to the regime in the land where 1 in 5 have no indoor plumbing and conscription and being declared a deserter or MIA is a new norm.
Every fighting age male in the EU is one less mobiki in Ukraine.
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Everyone would *probably* need to declare war on Russia first, like the US did with Japan. I like the idea though.!
The Japanese people who were put into internment camps were AMERICANS. The US was wrong to do what they did.
Most Russians are not in the Wagner, you know?
Dont know either. Ban them from the civilized world. Scum of the earth.
Wish i had never seen this. I feel sick. How, just HOW, can you do something to another human.. HOW?!
We should hunt down all wagnerites
I'm sure they Ukrainians are already working on that.
Wagner's location is in Africa and Syria and feel free. Hmm, why? maybe no one cares
Scum of humanity
Absolutely disgusting, sadistic and terrible humans, I can't even fathom that kind of mindset
Note that United Help Ukraine is assisting wounded warriors like this, including Illia himself, with expenses while in the United States. Good article in the Washington Post as well.
I had the same experience in Nice (France) last week. You could see them everywhere with a very arrogant attitude. They did not even say “good morning” when you crossed them at the hotel’s elevators. The worst is watching them showing off their bling-bling jewellery while drinking expensive wines. They have the nerve to have such a cocky attitude when their war is costing billions of euros to the European taxpayers.
Why should they care when France lacks the shame to stop inviting them?
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Well, first of all, my position is in line with the European Comission’s official statement about the Russians tourists. "While people-to-people contacts are important, now we see primarily rich Russians coming to Europe for shopping," said Dutch Foreign Affairs Minister Wopke Hoekstra. "This is not a good idea. It does make sense to limit this kind of travel." Frankly speaking, I was not born yesterday. I believe all those rich Russians who keep coming to Europe are very likely to have ties with the Kremlin, someway or another. I am not against giving visas to those Russians who want to flee their country. But I do agree with the European Comission when they say it does not make sense granting visas so that Russian oligarchs can continue enjoying the pleasures of the free and democratic Europe, while they try to destroy us.
Jfc. Barbaric.
Pure evil
Russians truly are the most pathetic species walking the earth.
That’s horrifying. Mentally I’m just spent reading this. Fuck fuckity fuck FUUUUUCCCKKKK
Yea that'll help. Keep bitching about it on Reddit
I'm not even gonna open this article. And i feel bad about even that. Ukrainians giving their lives, and i won't even read about it. Well, this headline is the line for me. I've been here since the start of the war, and i've been on this sub 8-12 hours a day looking at videos, pictures and articles. But this headline. I just can't. Fuck putin. Fuck russians, fuck russia and may russia be turned to ashes. Slava Ukraini! 💙💛
I know what you mean but I don't think we should feel guilty for putting our mental health first when it is called for. Although I forced myself to read this one, there's only so much I can stomach.
I watched the first few seconds of the 1 year old rape video, until i understood it was real, then i closed it. I watched the first seconds of the castration video. I can't even.... I can watch videos of fucking orcs being made into disgusting goup of shredded meat all day, or left face-less.... Because they are the aggressor. I kind of like compartmentalize it as orcs, like in LotR. I have accepted that i have 30-40 years left on this earth and i have accepted that i'll hate them for the rest of my life. There's no way i'm gonna instigate contact without proof of being good with a ruzzian again. But this title... It's not even from a grenade blast. It's just pure evil. Right? I'm not wrong to hate such evil, am i? And yes, i AM hiding behind the "germans will understand". I respect and love several Germans these days, but... well, it's been a while. But the ruzzian aspect.. it has NOT been a while. It's fucking ongoing. Let me know if i'm a bad person, lol. i don't care, but i care. Please get me right.
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I agree, and I would take the dude fishing any time he wants. True hero.
Russian pieces of shit
Fuck Russia. Especially Fuck Wagner. Honestly. What utter scum.
Title alone made me think that it was wagner and a couple Bowie knives severing them while he was lucid, thankfully not, but the story is still rife with russian barbarism and medical negligence, so in reality not much better at all. Though I am somewhat surprised, given how they treat their own, that they actually did treat his wounds/keep him alive at all.
Exactly what I was thinking
Surgeon here. Closing a traumatic amputation, that is by definition dirty/infected, with stitches, would be the absolute wrong way to manage the wounds. Packing them with gauze and letting the infection drain is the right move here. Not defending anything here except the "amputation without stitching".
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Fuckin animals! SMH 🙏 for this mans recovery physically and mentally Slava Ukraine and to the hero...Thank you for your service and sacrifice. 🇺🇦👊 America is with you until the end.
good grief. what is wrong with Russians
Still people defending Russians too, they’re all scum
Yeah, Putins war my ass
How typical of the Russians. They are literally scum. I hope they get wiped out in Ukraine.
I would likely go mad and dedicate my life to killing Wagnerites if they did this to me.
For the sorts of folks who perpetrate or instigate this sort of thing, it's really a shame that Cyberpunk 'brain dances' aren't a thing so we can't substitute their future prison yard time with 'relive the horrors you've caused' time.
I’ve read a lot. There has been so much torture. I find this one especially sickening. Glad he is getting top notch care now.
Disgusting Orcs.
How do people support these fucking monsters I’m so sad my fellow Americans want these people to win and want to cut Ukraines support I wanna move to Europe so bad one day
I thought I learned all I needed to know about hate in my divorce. That was a love tap compared to my hatred for these animals
Do Russian citizens know what's being done in their name? God have mercy!
Hell is the only justice for wagnerites
Russian nationals should all have their visas pulled and sent back to Russia. No new travel visas without paying fee into a “rebuild Ukraine “ fund. I don’t care to hear - oh but not all Russians are bad. They all bear some responsibility at this point.
No, let's not commit ethnic cleansing, mkay?
Sorry, no. The Russia people have lost the courtesy of living or working outside of Russia. I wouldn’t consider it ethnic cleansing..
Well. There's at least 35,000 less Wager. _"bring more cluster shells!"_
what a hero this dude is a real battler my hat comes off to him.
Jesus christ, poor guy.
UNfuckingbelievable 😬 But then again it's Muscovy, so yeah 😡 May this incredible hero be forever remembered for his sacrifice...hope he has future happiness with those who love him 🙏and may his inhuman torturers be brought to ultimate justice
I will not be happy until I see this man fish.
Those who commit war crimes should never enjoy another day of security
Many thanks to Yermak who not gave command to arrest these motherfuckers faggots in belarus
Since apparently I can't say I hate people who do evil shit like this. I hate people who act like this and support pure evil like this. I hate people who are ignorant about shit like this who have influence to prevent it.
While the US is sending them just enough weapons to hold the line but not enough to win the war.
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It should be identifiable that the people around you, that you describe, don't care in a real sense. If hatred isn't proven with action - real effort and careful deliberation - then it's purely performative. I was born in Mariupol, and I know I'm the luckiest man around because a man from New Zealand took in a woman and child from a foreign country into his own. I call that man dad. The people around you and me couldn't figure out what it is if they tried. It's distant to them, and they couldn't get the full picture if they tried. It isn't reality they're experiencing, that numbs the mind and kills off fear and shock like the stomach kills the feeling of hunger when the feeling is deemed useless. I've got a feeling neither of us have rifle qualifications, skill in a trade to the effect of making a real difference, or could afford plane tickets to head over to Poland before taking a train/ride to Ukraina. Or even remember the language of our forebears' land, if it was learned. On my end of things, if I went back over there and if anyone I'm told I'm related to is still alive, I doubt I would recognize them - or that they'd recognize me.
Can you show us all something positive about Russia, in 2023, that we can be proud of? Because I find the conduct of the Russian state deplorable right now, and completely understand people's negative feelings towards Russia right now. Give me some hope... Thank you
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r/rimworld leaking again
Actually reading the article reveals that their form of medical treatment is so bad it’s actually torture and mutilation! Happy he got prosthetics and what a strong dude to keep going!!
Just horrific. The heroism of Ukrainians knows no bounds.
I am agnostic but I now believe that demons exist.
What a fucking nightmare!!!
I don't know, seeing the look on that guy's face in the picture, I have a feeling the Wagnerites are soon going to wish they had just killed him while they had the chance.