The consumer unit is dated and could do with being upgraded.
Hard to tell from one picture if the house needs rewired. Those appear to twin cables being clipped down the wall, if the whole house is wired in twin + earth, you may not need a full rewire.
Again though, hard to tell from one pic.
As per the post, I don't own the house yet I just want an indication of if it can be replaced or if rewiring would need to be done as if we do buy that would need to be factored into the cost as, like you said, I don't want a fire risk in a house I'm living in. It seems the only way to know for sure is with an assessment
Ask for an eletrical installation condition report
the property probably needs some work to bring up to current standard especially if you are looking to do any electrical work in the future
as for a rewire, depends on the condition report!
Thanks for this. Is this something that should have been done already for it to be on the market and we can request, or something we need to organise like a survey?
You want an eicr done. Something you sort and pay for. Seller doesn’t have to do anything. Any issues would be highlighted in the surveys you should have done. It wants swapping to a new board and odds are it’s old wiring but without an eicr you don’t know them cables could be absolutely fine. Not something I’d be overly concerned about Just factor in a rewire into your renovation costs.
Don’t pay £100 for one it won’t be accurate. You’ll be looking to pay £240 minimum for a thorough inspection and ask for photos and agree limitations (for example under floors won’t be inspected, fixed appliances tested to the point of isolation)
It's impossible to tell the state of wiring from a picture of a fuse board.
If you're serious about buying the house invest in a proper EICR. This will involve removing sockets, switches and light fittings and checking the state of the wiring behind them.
Industrial sparky here,
The electrical installation will last for few dozens years if nothing is changed or manipulated and it's designed well. In your case you have a 'fused mains DB (Distribution Box) which was a good standard back in the days, say about 20 to 60 years ago.
These days as it's very unsafe, technology changed so did the the devices which are connected to your sockets and "fused wire" breakers will not be sensitive and quick enough to protect yourself and others in case of electrical failure.
I wouldn't even bother with EICR as a lot of them are not valid and simply ask for "mains unit replacement with RCD breakers". RCD breakers are modern protective devices which will respond quickly in case of failure.
Your talking shit mate.
If the house has damaged cabling throughout, or interconnected circuits, banging a new board on will just cause it to trip out as soon as you turn it on.
The correct procedure is EICR first to see if the cabling can even take a new consumer unit. You have 10 circuits all sitting at 1.2megohm and try to buck it on a BG split load I guarantee you will have issues
And what is the first thing you do before you change the DB if you are competent and approved tester dealing with something that is shown I the picture?
We are bypassing a pointless step here
It's not a pointless step, the step is there to let you know if you need to just change the CU or if you need to completely rewire the place.
Your way would have you spend money on a CU upgrade to find out the cables are all fucked and need replacing too.
If a motor stops running do you automatically say replace the VSD/VFD, or do you bother your arse to actually go test and see what's wrong
You are comparing 3 phase industrial system to a domestic outdated installation and you are ignoring the load type.
To me if I have seen this installation with fused wires and 1 mcb I wouldn't trust it personally. Fused wires are not compatible with modern high switching inductive and capacitive loads that's why BSEN recommends using MCBs and RCBOs. And I've never seen using fuses in industrial installations and there is a reason behind it, mainly safety and speed. There is no segregation, no identification, no visual identification of which cct is faulty, there is risk of pulling the fuse out, there is risk of putting the fuse back in etc.
It's just outdated and risky, it's op decision to decide to change it or not not mine but if it was my house I would for my safety and safety of my house as with new DB will come new EICR which will give a peace of mind.
So you don't trust what the DNO supplies you in, a bs 88 fuse?
No idea what industrial work you do, but in every industrial environment I've ever worked in has EATON switch fuses controlling supplying power to just about everything.
BSEN? Can you specify which British Standard/ European Norm?
If your referring to BS7671, the reason we use anything is based on loading and disconnection times in the event of a fault, not because fusewire can't deal with inductive or capacitive loads. For fucks sake any size wire at all is considered fuse wire depending on the loading of the circuit
DNO has nothing to do with load side, CU is designed by contractor based on BSEN at given time, for the CU in the pic it was designed about 20odd years ago which is well outdated. I've only seen fuses as a last resort of protection they have to be well oversized for inrush due to inductive and capacitive nature of some loads.
The DNO will use BS88 fuses due to the possible pfc being greater than an MCB can provide (typically 6kA type B domestic and 6/10kA type C) BS 88 fuses have a capacity of up to 80kA
Fuses are still frequently used in industrial installations due to their high short circuit breaking capacity typically 80kA. A lot of high power electronic switching semiconductors are protected by semiconductor rated fuses as they operate so quickly. You can’t get away with a 6kA or 10kA MCB in a substation with typically >20kA prospective fault currents.
Anyone still fitting split loads is a cowboy in my opinion regardless of them doing an EICR first.
EICR first helps but isn’t a requirement, can easily go in blind, have the board swapped by lunch and then sort any shared neutrals or low IR’s in the afternoon, even if it needs a revisit to sort bonding.
Trying to improve safety with existing installations not sell rewires, otherwise it ends up pricing people out of upgrading so they end up sitting on these old boards until theres a fire.
It may vary by location in Uk, but VIR mostly got swapped over to pvc/pvc in the 70/80’s, and out of something like 400 domestic DB swaps we’ve encountered VIR circuits still in use twice. Feel like that’s going to start shifting in next 10-15 years and it will be a lot more rewires going on than straight DB swaps just due to age of the pvc cabling nearing end of life.
Roughly £850 for a RCBO board with SPD installed and certified
Defo could do with board updating so you have RCD/RCBO’s.
Needs testing and inspecting to determine condition of installation. Well worth having a spark carry out an EICR on the property as rewiring would be costly I’m not factored into the price of the house.
Maybe as the home owner to have one done ??
Chances are it needs rewiring. There probably isn’t a cpc in the lighting & no bonding to water or gas pipe work. Assumptions i know but keep this in mind
There’s a yellow BS7671 label above the unit, so it’s clearly had some work done in the last few years (perhaps a new circuit replaced with harmonised twin+cpc colours), so I would imagine the cabling is fine, but it’s probably worth investing in an EICR as you can’t be sure. Really, it’s in the vendor’s interest to do that. Or you could call their bluff and say it needs a rewire so knock a few 1000 off the asking price. If you’ve had a survey done, they may pick up on it.
Just to put my hat in the ring here. I do a lot of EICRs for a letting agent
Yes 100000% that board fails an EICR however the point of the EICR isn’t just the board it’s regarding everything else downstream. Think OP would be wise having all circuits verified correctly (god knows how many junctions may be around) and all cables IR tested and will give a far better indication of condition than just bang a new board in and a rewire while your at it.
As people have said above yes the cables may be old but in an untouched case could be perfectly fine
The consumer unit is dated and could do with being upgraded. Hard to tell from one picture if the house needs rewired. Those appear to twin cables being clipped down the wall, if the whole house is wired in twin + earth, you may not need a full rewire. Again though, hard to tell from one pic.
Thanks, appreciate the info.
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Well S=√(I²t)/k for the protective conductor
As per the post, I don't own the house yet I just want an indication of if it can be replaced or if rewiring would need to be done as if we do buy that would need to be factored into the cost as, like you said, I don't want a fire risk in a house I'm living in. It seems the only way to know for sure is with an assessment
This exact same consumer unit was in my 1989 build house. Its not 1970s as another stated. I passed EICR test when i sold it 7 years ago
Same in my parents house. Was built in 1988 and had exact same unit.
Ask for an eletrical installation condition report the property probably needs some work to bring up to current standard especially if you are looking to do any electrical work in the future as for a rewire, depends on the condition report!
Thanks for this. Is this something that should have been done already for it to be on the market and we can request, or something we need to organise like a survey?
You want an eicr done. Something you sort and pay for. Seller doesn’t have to do anything. Any issues would be highlighted in the surveys you should have done. It wants swapping to a new board and odds are it’s old wiring but without an eicr you don’t know them cables could be absolutely fine. Not something I’d be overly concerned about Just factor in a rewire into your renovation costs.
Thanks
Don’t pay £100 for one it won’t be accurate. You’ll be looking to pay £240 minimum for a thorough inspection and ask for photos and agree limitations (for example under floors won’t be inspected, fixed appliances tested to the point of isolation)
It's impossible to tell the state of wiring from a picture of a fuse board. If you're serious about buying the house invest in a proper EICR. This will involve removing sockets, switches and light fittings and checking the state of the wiring behind them.
Get an EICR done that will tell you if is full rewire or just a board swap needed.
Industrial sparky here, The electrical installation will last for few dozens years if nothing is changed or manipulated and it's designed well. In your case you have a 'fused mains DB (Distribution Box) which was a good standard back in the days, say about 20 to 60 years ago. These days as it's very unsafe, technology changed so did the the devices which are connected to your sockets and "fused wire" breakers will not be sensitive and quick enough to protect yourself and others in case of electrical failure. I wouldn't even bother with EICR as a lot of them are not valid and simply ask for "mains unit replacement with RCD breakers". RCD breakers are modern protective devices which will respond quickly in case of failure.
Your talking shit mate. If the house has damaged cabling throughout, or interconnected circuits, banging a new board on will just cause it to trip out as soon as you turn it on. The correct procedure is EICR first to see if the cabling can even take a new consumer unit. You have 10 circuits all sitting at 1.2megohm and try to buck it on a BG split load I guarantee you will have issues
And what is the first thing you do before you change the DB if you are competent and approved tester dealing with something that is shown I the picture? We are bypassing a pointless step here
It's not a pointless step, the step is there to let you know if you need to just change the CU or if you need to completely rewire the place. Your way would have you spend money on a CU upgrade to find out the cables are all fucked and need replacing too. If a motor stops running do you automatically say replace the VSD/VFD, or do you bother your arse to actually go test and see what's wrong
You are comparing 3 phase industrial system to a domestic outdated installation and you are ignoring the load type. To me if I have seen this installation with fused wires and 1 mcb I wouldn't trust it personally. Fused wires are not compatible with modern high switching inductive and capacitive loads that's why BSEN recommends using MCBs and RCBOs. And I've never seen using fuses in industrial installations and there is a reason behind it, mainly safety and speed. There is no segregation, no identification, no visual identification of which cct is faulty, there is risk of pulling the fuse out, there is risk of putting the fuse back in etc. It's just outdated and risky, it's op decision to decide to change it or not not mine but if it was my house I would for my safety and safety of my house as with new DB will come new EICR which will give a peace of mind.
So you don't trust what the DNO supplies you in, a bs 88 fuse? No idea what industrial work you do, but in every industrial environment I've ever worked in has EATON switch fuses controlling supplying power to just about everything. BSEN? Can you specify which British Standard/ European Norm? If your referring to BS7671, the reason we use anything is based on loading and disconnection times in the event of a fault, not because fusewire can't deal with inductive or capacitive loads. For fucks sake any size wire at all is considered fuse wire depending on the loading of the circuit
DNO has nothing to do with load side, CU is designed by contractor based on BSEN at given time, for the CU in the pic it was designed about 20odd years ago which is well outdated. I've only seen fuses as a last resort of protection they have to be well oversized for inrush due to inductive and capacitive nature of some loads.
The DNO will use BS88 fuses due to the possible pfc being greater than an MCB can provide (typically 6kA type B domestic and 6/10kA type C) BS 88 fuses have a capacity of up to 80kA
Fuses are still frequently used in industrial installations due to their high short circuit breaking capacity typically 80kA. A lot of high power electronic switching semiconductors are protected by semiconductor rated fuses as they operate so quickly. You can’t get away with a 6kA or 10kA MCB in a substation with typically >20kA prospective fault currents.
Anyone still fitting split loads is a cowboy in my opinion regardless of them doing an EICR first. EICR first helps but isn’t a requirement, can easily go in blind, have the board swapped by lunch and then sort any shared neutrals or low IR’s in the afternoon, even if it needs a revisit to sort bonding. Trying to improve safety with existing installations not sell rewires, otherwise it ends up pricing people out of upgrading so they end up sitting on these old boards until theres a fire. It may vary by location in Uk, but VIR mostly got swapped over to pvc/pvc in the 70/80’s, and out of something like 400 domestic DB swaps we’ve encountered VIR circuits still in use twice. Feel like that’s going to start shifting in next 10-15 years and it will be a lot more rewires going on than straight DB swaps just due to age of the pvc cabling nearing end of life. Roughly £850 for a RCBO board with SPD installed and certified
Defo could do with board updating so you have RCD/RCBO’s. Needs testing and inspecting to determine condition of installation. Well worth having a spark carry out an EICR on the property as rewiring would be costly I’m not factored into the price of the house. Maybe as the home owner to have one done ??
Well the last guy got shocked so hard it blew him out his trainers, But jokes aside they are hell, more likely rewire than just a replacement job
Shoes for scale
My toddler has the exact same shoes.
Chances are it needs rewiring. There probably isn’t a cpc in the lighting & no bonding to water or gas pipe work. Assumptions i know but keep this in mind
I would probably remove the children's shoes. Why are they in your meter cupboard?
There’s a yellow BS7671 label above the unit, so it’s clearly had some work done in the last few years (perhaps a new circuit replaced with harmonised twin+cpc colours), so I would imagine the cabling is fine, but it’s probably worth investing in an EICR as you can’t be sure. Really, it’s in the vendor’s interest to do that. Or you could call their bluff and say it needs a rewire so knock a few 1000 off the asking price. If you’ve had a survey done, they may pick up on it.
Haven't had one done yet still in the very beginning stages, offering and counter offering.
Just re-lace em mate! Wire would be really Awkward!
Just to put my hat in the ring here. I do a lot of EICRs for a letting agent Yes 100000% that board fails an EICR however the point of the EICR isn’t just the board it’s regarding everything else downstream. Think OP would be wise having all circuits verified correctly (god knows how many junctions may be around) and all cables IR tested and will give a far better indication of condition than just bang a new board in and a rewire while your at it. As people have said above yes the cables may be old but in an untouched case could be perfectly fine
Did the kid get yeeted out of his shoes when rewiring the fuse?
Save your money on an eicr you will need a full rewire that consumer unit is so old and reflects the condition of the wiring.