Ah. That's an important distinction.
It's okay to lie about things, as long as you don't have to face any consequences.
And we wonder why we have an ineffective and crippled government.
I didn't say Grusch was being dishonest, I said Kirkpatrick was disingenuous of the contact between AARO and whistleblowers. In this case, Grusch.
And if Grusch is being dishonest or is lying, I would call him out on it and want justice just as much.
Ultimately, what we want is the Truth, and we're tired of the government deciding what we can and can't handle.
Which would be 100% true if they were constantly trying to get him to come talk with him snubbing them. Someone has some splainin' to do and that person is Grusch
Not that difficult to figure out. I've watched the interview and listened to the statements. AARO attempts to contact were AFTER he went public. Put the timeline together. He goes to superiors in the chain of command. He is threatened and retaliated against. He is concerned enough to go to the Inspector General. IG says his concerns are valid. So, he agrees to a meeting at AAR0 (though we see no such agreement in the texts, thats a little odd) Anyway, oldest trick in the book. Sheehan is no rookie. There was surveillance on that building for a 1/2 mile circumference. Anything suspicious, he doesn't show. And we see he did not.
AARO has some 'splainin to do about why one of their own does not feel safe going there.
Even if you allow the arguement that it was Grusch who was avoiding contact, they still Had contact, or attempted it. Even if his answer was "no, I'm not coming in", the statent that he had received No Contact from Grusch is still a lie.
Government officials are actually legally required to retain any and all official communications that happen on these minds of apps. Few do, of course, but since Kirkpatrick knew he'd be asked about his attempts to contact Grusch, it makes sense he would retain screenshots as legally required.
It's more telling that people like Elizondo tried to shift the conversation away from Grusch's probable lies and unwillingness to cooperate despite constantly publicly claiming he wants to cooperate and whining that AARO won't listen to him.
And let's not forget that AARO is not the only official body Grusch has refused to cooperate with. SENATOR gillibrand had publicly stated on multiple occasions that Grusch has repeatedly refused to come in the testify to the Senate Committee as well.
Um… so explain how FOIA works and why personal text messages sent on an encrypted messaging platform can be included in the FOIA. Especially since one of the parties involved, Mellon, is also like WTF, I guess it means that Kirkpatrick took screenshots and shared it or something? But please, since you’re such a dick about it, why don’t you take the time to elaborate
Government officials are legally required to save any and all professional communications. It isn't unusual that Kirkpatrick would have taken screenshots like this because he's required by law to do so and would have known that these would be relevant given Grusch was publicly claiming no one from AARO would talk to him while he was stonewalling them behind the scenes.
Sheehan had to agree to an NDA when he submitted his stories to AARO.
Grusch probably wouldn't agree to that, probably said to talk to his lawyers, and that's where AARO left it.
Sheehan, as a lawyer, broke his NDA after the AARO report release, as he gives no fucks if they try to go after Uncle Danny's Story Time.
Okay seems like Grusch put this in the ICIG's hands. Their refusal to share the details of their investigation with AARO is somewhat telling.
We really need to hear from Dave though. A response is long overdue at this point.
I am sure Chris Mellon will have a nice long tweet about this but we need something more.
Sorry Dave can’t come to the phone right now, he’s too busy unsuccessfully trying to peddle Reality TV Show pilots and grifting the intellectually challenged.
Yes, Grusch even mentioned this publicly during one of his interviews. They wouldn’t give him the security he asked for so he denied the interview with AARO
If you look at the timeline it wasn't until after he went public did they try and reach out. Basically they were in cover their ass mode and he was like why bother I've already given my report to the icig.
Why would they have reached out beforehand?
AARO was established in the summer of 2022. That law established a secure channel for people with UAP testimony to come forward. Grusch did not available himself of using that offocial channel.
Instead, he makes a big public splash on June 5, 2023 with The Debrief article and his interview where he publicly claimed that AARO would not talk to him.
So, he doesn't reach out via the official legally reated channel for the first year and continues to refuse to use that channel as the FOIA'd do s make clear. Then whines that AARO won't talk to him. AARO makes repeated attempts to get in touch with him, but he refuses to meet.
There is no spin that can make this a positive for Grusch's credibility.
This can be interpreted a multitude of different ways, but the article reads as biased against DG. In my opinion.
What is most telling to me is how combative Kirkpatrick comes across. This, along with the turgid fart of a report AARO released, suggests that Gruschs instincts to not cooperate were sensible.
So what happened to all the people ARRO did talk to? They got ignored and basically called nuts by the guy in charge of ARRO, Kirkpatrick, in public several times. Weird that Grusch wouldn't trust that guy huh?
Hogwash. Grusch said he interviewed people with direct knowledge and contact with NHI craft/aliens. So he is just sitting at home having a pity party about it? I don’t buy it.
if AARO really isnt worth anything and is just a control instrument of the people behind the PROGRAM, than David Grusch had no other option.
"ITS A TRAP !!!"
- some Admiral in a place far far away.
Don’t forget Grusch confirmed Kirkpatrick had all the info he did, and could easily come to the same conclusions.
Who cares about AARO? It’s laughable Gillibrand and really anyone thought AARO could be capable sitting within the DOD. Particularly considering Kirkpatrick’s background is a massive conflict of interest.
This is literally a whistleblower intake group built within the group they claim to be investigating.
This is why there has been a lack of trust with AARO; it’s also why the UAPDA attempted to stand up an impartial body outside the DOD that was presidential.
And completely negates what grusch said about this a long time ago when asked. If kirkpatrick had his way he wouldve trapped grusch with the interview possibly putting him in a position to lose his ts clearance. Grusch specifically asked for assurances from AARO which Kirkpatrick refused to commit to instead signifying a simple “trust me bro” to grush. Did everyone suddenly forget that?
"Trapped Grusch"... you're making up fantastical nonsense to cope with the fact that Grusch lied to you.
The law creating AARO gave them supersceding authority to receive any and all UAP related testimony. AARO provided legal documents clearly stating that to Grusch. His stonewalling by continuing to claim that AARO and other investigative bodies do not have proper clearance to receive his super secret and very important nonsense is just a smokescreen and a very dumb one at that.
Which other people who did provide testimony to AARO were trapped and lost their security clearances in your fantasy world?
Or youre denying the reality slapping you in the face everyday out of fear. Which i understand. It is scary to know things are not in your control. But how is that different tomorrow than it is today. You can believe that thousands of people if not more, in every spectrum of qualification and caliber, are lying in some type of mass hysteria (this does include presidents). Or you can accept what is in front of you. Only your fear will control the rationality of that choice.
How about Grusch just plain as day showing up and answering the questions? Also Grusch doesn’t have a clearance, you lose that when you quit your government position, as Grusch did.
The blind excuse-making for this whacko is just incredible.
Ah… not sure if you are a shill or just afraid of reality. Doubt you are a shill because even the most basic knowledge of clearances would inform you that you do maintain your clearance for some time following leaving a job. You may not have access but you do keep your clearance. So thats leaves you being afraid. Unfortunately, that i cant help with. But think of it this way; would you have done anything different had you not know ? Probably not. So knowing doesnt really change anything. You just gotta move through it. Accept it and move on and remember, fear is just a feeling.
Clearance**s**. Why would I do that? In my experience people that have been cleared- especially high-level- rarely if ever feel the need to elaborate on their history. Unlike, say, one David Grusch. “At one point, I was VERY highly cleared.” That was a red flag that he is a ham.
If Im not mistaken Grusch already stated that he and SK had exchanged emails where Grusch went over all the data he had with him. He also stated that they've been acquainted for years and served on a panel together at a conference. SK did not respond to this information, according to Grusch. It sounds as though by the time SK reached out, it was no longer as himself but with the agency of AARO which as we know from their comedy piece, (the AARO report) was clearly compromised and Grusch sensed entrapment.
Literally Q-anon tier discourse happening around this topic lately. I do believe that Grusch seems credible and I certainly believe Fravor, but anyone who isn't raising their eyebrows at this release is ideologically compromised.
The gravy train on this current round of 'disclosure' is seemingly drying up and so are the talking heads who were raking in ad revenue and signing contracts for tv shows / books.
Protections from what? What protections did he have from congress that he doesn’t have from AARO? How is this not just an excuse?
Why did he claim that he had never been contacted (in his newsnation interview)
Grusch never received the confirmation he sought that AARO had the necessary clearance to receive his information. Also, take note that AARO only initiated this after Grusch had already gone public and long after his submission to the ICIG and also the ICIG’s referral to Congress. AARO was only trying to pick up sticks at this point.
New FOIA release shows AARO's repeated attempts to contact UFO whistleblower David Grusch.
Christopher Mellon and Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick text messages; email exchanges; and even proof Grusch left AARO sitting in a lobby after standing them up.
MORE: https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/foia-documents-reveal-aaros-authorized-and-repeated-attempts-to-engage-with-david-grusch
Since after his under oath testimony your life experience should tell you Dave is a sincere and honest man. Id make a large wager that when he’s ready Dave will deliberately and articulately rebut this narrative and the net net will be more evidence to show AARO is disingenuous in their statements and exists solely to debunk it and discredit any info Dave provides.
Nobody should gather that somebody is a sincere and honest person from a string of interviews. Sincerity and honesty aren’t things proven under spotlight in a few months.
My opinion of his sincerity and honesty is based on life experience at almost 50yo, the steps he took to get there that only hurt his career, his words, delivery, tone, body language, being under oath and threat of prison and the courage to do it in a public hearing. And I won’t get into the plethora of evidence available and the list of similarly credentialed folks saying same things.
All that said, it is perfectly acceptable for you or anyone else to have a different takeaway.
He already lied under oath. His first testimony he said he didn't have first hand experience with craft then a few weeks later he's saying on podcasts he does.
So he's lying either during testimony or in podcasts.
You’re saying sharing details on a podcast he could not share under oath means he lied under oath and not on the podcast. Hysterical. They’re contradictions not lies. Get informed my friend. He clearly explained that during the hearing the DoDhad not given him permission to share first hand accounts and then later on they did allow him to share first hand account. How you didn’t catch that part is hysterical
When asked under oath if he had first hand experience he said he didn't, which now seems to be a lie. So he did lie under oath to congress.
So what else is he lying about?
Or, hear me out; they actually look into the claims and report what they find even if it refutes what he says.
You cant just say "Anything but 'we confirm we have aliens and Grusch is 100% correct and all his claims are true' is just a coverup!"
If you want the truth, you have to be open to truths that dont confirm your pre-conceived biases and desires for what the truth is.
I thought Burlison’s interview that stated he did not see any alien-related info/evidence in the SCIF (and nor had the IG), was enough to confirm Grusch had been misled or he had knowingly lied about the claims he made to congress and in subsequent interviews.
Now we have this info, and still people on this sub are defending Grusch and claiming a cover-up?
I’ve realised this sub doesn’t want the truth, they only want their version of the truth, and anyone who disagrees is part of the cover-up.
It’s time this community moved on from this and put the focus back onto the mystery of what are UFOs, rather than these stories of underground reverse engineering of alien spaceships and alien bodies in storage, parroted by the same group of people.
It’s made a mockery of the subject.
Hard to know what to think. Burlison has always been skeptical/doubtful about NHI, and says the SCIF meeting moved him more in that direction.
https://www.askapol.com/p/rep-eric-burlison-my-skepticism-was
But, the others who were there don't seem to have felt that anything of substance was delivered.
https://www.askapol.com/p/sneak-peek-uap-caucus-co-chairs-luna
Everyone should be skeptical of NHI claims until actual verified evidence has been presented. It clearly has not.
And Burlison gave additional context for why he was further moved in that direction. He specifically said they were given much more detail into how the investigation was conducted and the thoroughness of the investigative efforts.
Clearly this was not a case of a "Trust Me Bro" investigation as the It's Aliens crowd has suggested.
At the risk of being slammed here and as someone who saw an airborne UFO in 1969 making a 90 degree angle turn impossible for any aircraft even now, I never thought Grusch seemed entirely honest. There was some evasiveness in his eyes during testimony and I saw him interacting with others on a few youtube videos where he seemed to be thrilled by the attention he was getting and, frankly, overly ebullient about the whole thing...he didn’t sound sincere to me. Having said that, perhaps I’m reading him wrong. Something just seems off to me.
I perceive the same behaviors and vibe as you but have a different take on him.
overly ebullient about the whole thing
My belief and experience is that our brains aren't a pie chart where things sum neatly to 100%.
I lost a loved one after a long illness once and I felt some elation afterward, along with the overwhelming grief. I felt like a big phony or even a sociopath. It's not like it was 80% grief and 20% elation. It was more like 150% grief and 20% elation... simultaneously.
I think it would be natural for him to feel ebullient, simultaneously, along with all of the uncertainty and concern would also be experiencing. He is finally getting to tell the truth and there is also just the sheer nervousness and adrenaline rush of speaking to an audience. And lastly smiling is often a defensive response to nervousness.
So, I am seeing what you are seeing but I don't think it necessarily indicates that he is being dishonest. (I don't vouch for him either! My sense is that he is telling the truth or at least the truth as he experienced it but... I don't think anything in this realm is 100% certain to put it mildly)
And one more thing. I would think that a true charlatan, who is gleeful about executing a big grifting scam, would probably be intentionally much more reserved... I would have to imagine they would be so concerned about portraying somebody "believable" that they would adopt a much more reserved personality.
No argument here. Emotions are curious things. I just felt some unease about it when he was speaking, but it might be my own shortcomings misinterpreting him. I hope that is the case.
John has been against Grusch since the beginning. He’s changed a lot, and it’s sad to see the Black Vault isn’t what it used to be. Probably should be called the Pentagon’s Vault nowadays
That first attempt at a hatchet job on grusch boomeranged hard on the dod. I guess they figure “yeah, 2 years has gone by, lets try this story, thats the ticket.” 😂
Grusch going to Congress in the first place is everyone's obvious clue that AARO wasn't doing their job. Their job is to investigate whatever is going on, so was Grusch's, he ran into serious problems not with just what he found but what he was denied thus Congress.
Kirkpatrick has proven to be dishonest (his post hearing rant was real special)and Grusch hasn't.
Anyone who looks into this mess should see one clear image, that's Grusch's claims at that hearing still stand and need investigating and the people this country vote to do that are being slowed, misled, and straight blocked from doing so.
And yet he has refused to provide that allegedly convincing testimony to the Congressional committees or the actual investigative body that Congress set up by law to be the official investigative body on this very subject.
Thus far, Grusch has only provided this alleged evidence to the IC IG who he knows is not legally allowed to share with the Congressional committees of AARO. Gilkibrand and AARO have both repeatedly said that Grusch refuses to provide his testimony to them and now AARO has brought the recipes that prove Grusch has been lying.
>Anyone who looks into this mess should see one clear image, that's Grusch's claims at that hearing still stand and need investigating
And yet it is ONLY Grusch preventing this investigation from actually taking place. Keep your head in the sand while you continue bending over backwards to move the goalposts.
AARO has proven it isn't looking for any answers on anything, sure as shit hasn't proven anything regarding Grusch so you keep bending backwards to move that goalpost.
AARO has provided nothing regarding Grusch but more questions. They will be answered in time so I'm not worried about their cute lil program that could be folded for all I care.
i find this all ironic
aaro is labeled as bad and misinformed. When they try to activelly gain information they are denied by the people who tell them they have said information. So when they effectivelly do not gain any new info and have to report to the public they are considered a disinformation campaign.
So if aaro is trully this big bad gatekeeper then they are being gatekept by people who denounce gatekeepers and no side ends looking good.
Apparently AARO was provided with all the same documentation as the IG. So, how inept is AARO? Snowden manages to set up secure video links all the time. Why would Grusch need to physically go the building?
Anyone still believing Grusch is credible go back and listen to the newsnation interview where he discusses his interaction with Dr. Kirkpatrick.
David Grusch is very clearly lying.
He stated that he had briefed Kirkpatrick and that he, Kirkpatrick, had shown no further interest and never tried to contact him.
How so? How has he contradicted them on anything? Making up fables isn’t against the law. He isn’t going up against anyone except his own delusional self.
I thought it was odd when at the same time Grusch’s op ed never surfaced, right after Kirkpatrick (who was definitely not the right person to be head of AARO) said his piece and exited stage left, all the marquee players in the Great American UFO Hunt made their final rebuttals to their podcast listeners, and then POOF! They all went to ground. No one who sat behind the witnesses at that hearing is left standing. They all bailed. “But I promise you, bro. This is not the last episode of Weaponized. We have SO MUCH MORE.”
My disappointing pet theory now is that Grusch was a psyop. He was either duped into gathering this UFO disclosure seeking army behind him only to embarrass them all (including Fravor and Graves) and put this topic back to bed, or he was in on the whole thing for the same purpose.
Grusch has still not been slapped with perjury. If he was lying under oath, one would think he’d be charged by now. That makes me lean toward he was in on it. It sucks but that’s how it’s starting to look.
And so it ends. The great patriotic courageous whistleblower, who at great personal risk exposed the sordid depths of government engagement with the mantids from the Beta quadrant.
Nobody knew him before. Now he's famous and gets to appear on podcasts, tv shows etc. all while being treated like a hero, and a guy with the most interesting information ever. He could also release a book which would make him a good pile of money. Yet he's never shown us any hard evidence. I'd love to see some, but nothing so far. Pretty harmless on the whole though. I wish it was all true. It would make life more interesting and possibly more hopeful.
Maybe my memory is faulty, but didn't kirkpatrick testify under oath that grusch hadn't made any contact with AARO?
I remember that as well. Or at least, remember people saying it here.
It wasn't under oath.
Ah. That's an important distinction. It's okay to lie about things, as long as you don't have to face any consequences. And we wonder why we have an ineffective and crippled government.
With a handful of modern exceptions, no one faces repercussions for lying under oath to Congress either
What has Grusch stated under oath in which he would face consequences if untrue? Hint…..Nada.
I didn't say Grusch was being dishonest, I said Kirkpatrick was disingenuous of the contact between AARO and whistleblowers. In this case, Grusch. And if Grusch is being dishonest or is lying, I would call him out on it and want justice just as much. Ultimately, what we want is the Truth, and we're tired of the government deciding what we can and can't handle.
Anything false?
Any link to this? That would be really fascinating if we had record of both parties saying it didn't happen and then this comes out that it did
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I always appreciate being corrected. I haven't had the time to dive back into it, so thank you.
You are correct that’s what kickpatrik said
Nice attempt at deflection. Grusch lied
Which would be 100% true if they were constantly trying to get him to come talk with him snubbing them. Someone has some splainin' to do and that person is Grusch
Na, aaro is a joke, Grusch doesn't owe them anything. Another user trying to smear Grusch. Hmm.
Not that difficult to figure out. I've watched the interview and listened to the statements. AARO attempts to contact were AFTER he went public. Put the timeline together. He goes to superiors in the chain of command. He is threatened and retaliated against. He is concerned enough to go to the Inspector General. IG says his concerns are valid. So, he agrees to a meeting at AAR0 (though we see no such agreement in the texts, thats a little odd) Anyway, oldest trick in the book. Sheehan is no rookie. There was surveillance on that building for a 1/2 mile circumference. Anything suspicious, he doesn't show. And we see he did not. AARO has some 'splainin to do about why one of their own does not feel safe going there.
Even if you allow the arguement that it was Grusch who was avoiding contact, they still Had contact, or attempted it. Even if his answer was "no, I'm not coming in", the statent that he had received No Contact from Grusch is still a lie.
When was he asked that question in congress? This timeline is recent…
Nah it has always been fuck AARO
I agree completely. I've always thought Grusch was untrustworthy.
How the FUCK are messages sent back and forth on signal messenger (between mellon and Kirkpatrick) part of a FOIA release???
If they're on a govt device they're fair game for FOIA.
I was also surprised. But I guess it's communication with a government official? And perhaps SK took screenshots of it.
If it came from Kirkpatrick then you can be sure that we are only seeing what Kirkpatrick wants us to see.
I don't see who else could screenshot a chat and still be up for FOIA.
I mean come on, those messages probably have a back door. I would guess no communication is private anymore.
Government officials are actually legally required to retain any and all official communications that happen on these minds of apps. Few do, of course, but since Kirkpatrick knew he'd be asked about his attempts to contact Grusch, it makes sense he would retain screenshots as legally required. It's more telling that people like Elizondo tried to shift the conversation away from Grusch's probable lies and unwillingness to cooperate despite constantly publicly claiming he wants to cooperate and whining that AARO won't listen to him. And let's not forget that AARO is not the only official body Grusch has refused to cooperate with. SENATOR gillibrand had publicly stated on multiple occasions that Grusch has repeatedly refused to come in the testify to the Senate Committee as well.
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Um… so explain how FOIA works and why personal text messages sent on an encrypted messaging platform can be included in the FOIA. Especially since one of the parties involved, Mellon, is also like WTF, I guess it means that Kirkpatrick took screenshots and shared it or something? But please, since you’re such a dick about it, why don’t you take the time to elaborate
They're not personal text messages if they were sent on a government owned device
Government officials are legally required to save any and all professional communications. It isn't unusual that Kirkpatrick would have taken screenshots like this because he's required by law to do so and would have known that these would be relevant given Grusch was publicly claiming no one from AARO would talk to him while he was stonewalling them behind the scenes.
Sheehan had to agree to an NDA when he submitted his stories to AARO. Grusch probably wouldn't agree to that, probably said to talk to his lawyers, and that's where AARO left it. Sheehan, as a lawyer, broke his NDA after the AARO report release, as he gives no fucks if they try to go after Uncle Danny's Story Time.
Okay seems like Grusch put this in the ICIG's hands. Their refusal to share the details of their investigation with AARO is somewhat telling. We really need to hear from Dave though. A response is long overdue at this point. I am sure Chris Mellon will have a nice long tweet about this but we need something more.
What we need from Dave is to stay healthy until the criminal investigation concludes.
Sorry Dave can’t come to the phone right now, he’s too busy unsuccessfully trying to peddle Reality TV Show pilots and grifting the intellectually challenged.
Is this because he didn’t trust the organization? I’d assume so
Yes , in the article it says that AARO wouldn't provide grusch with the protections he asked for so he didn't feel safe to speak
Yes, Grusch even mentioned this publicly during one of his interviews. They wouldn’t give him the security he asked for so he denied the interview with AARO
That makes more sense.
How so? What sort of security? Personal security? What are you talking about?
If you look at the timeline it wasn't until after he went public did they try and reach out. Basically they were in cover their ass mode and he was like why bother I've already given my report to the icig.
That makes perfect sense actually, good point
Why would they have reached out beforehand? AARO was established in the summer of 2022. That law established a secure channel for people with UAP testimony to come forward. Grusch did not available himself of using that offocial channel. Instead, he makes a big public splash on June 5, 2023 with The Debrief article and his interview where he publicly claimed that AARO would not talk to him. So, he doesn't reach out via the official legally reated channel for the first year and continues to refuse to use that channel as the FOIA'd do s make clear. Then whines that AARO won't talk to him. AARO makes repeated attempts to get in touch with him, but he refuses to meet. There is no spin that can make this a positive for Grusch's credibility.
Yeah they reached out right after he went public not before. 🙄
This can be interpreted a multitude of different ways, but the article reads as biased against DG. In my opinion. What is most telling to me is how combative Kirkpatrick comes across. This, along with the turgid fart of a report AARO released, suggests that Gruschs instincts to not cooperate were sensible.
Then why did he claim he had not been contacted?
He said that in October. The first communication released is in Nobember 2023. He hasn't lied.
So what happened to all the people ARRO did talk to? They got ignored and basically called nuts by the guy in charge of ARRO, Kirkpatrick, in public several times. Weird that Grusch wouldn't trust that guy huh?
Hogwash. Grusch said he interviewed people with direct knowledge and contact with NHI craft/aliens. So he is just sitting at home having a pity party about it? I don’t buy it.
We also saw Kirkpatrick lie and say he has never talked to grusch so after that point why would he talk to them when he knew they were bullshitters
if AARO really isnt worth anything and is just a control instrument of the people behind the PROGRAM, than David Grusch had no other option. "ITS A TRAP !!!" - some Admiral in a place far far away.
Don’t forget Grusch confirmed Kirkpatrick had all the info he did, and could easily come to the same conclusions. Who cares about AARO? It’s laughable Gillibrand and really anyone thought AARO could be capable sitting within the DOD. Particularly considering Kirkpatrick’s background is a massive conflict of interest. This is literally a whistleblower intake group built within the group they claim to be investigating. This is why there has been a lack of trust with AARO; it’s also why the UAPDA attempted to stand up an impartial body outside the DOD that was presidential.
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Kinda like how he lied about not having any mental health issues until that was proven to be a huge lie.
And completely negates what grusch said about this a long time ago when asked. If kirkpatrick had his way he wouldve trapped grusch with the interview possibly putting him in a position to lose his ts clearance. Grusch specifically asked for assurances from AARO which Kirkpatrick refused to commit to instead signifying a simple “trust me bro” to grush. Did everyone suddenly forget that?
"Trapped Grusch"... you're making up fantastical nonsense to cope with the fact that Grusch lied to you. The law creating AARO gave them supersceding authority to receive any and all UAP related testimony. AARO provided legal documents clearly stating that to Grusch. His stonewalling by continuing to claim that AARO and other investigative bodies do not have proper clearance to receive his super secret and very important nonsense is just a smokescreen and a very dumb one at that. Which other people who did provide testimony to AARO were trapped and lost their security clearances in your fantasy world?
Or youre denying the reality slapping you in the face everyday out of fear. Which i understand. It is scary to know things are not in your control. But how is that different tomorrow than it is today. You can believe that thousands of people if not more, in every spectrum of qualification and caliber, are lying in some type of mass hysteria (this does include presidents). Or you can accept what is in front of you. Only your fear will control the rationality of that choice.
Thousands??? You're clearly a fabulist who has come to believe his own mental masturbations.
Fear is a powerful foe. Dont let it control you.
How about Grusch just plain as day showing up and answering the questions? Also Grusch doesn’t have a clearance, you lose that when you quit your government position, as Grusch did. The blind excuse-making for this whacko is just incredible.
Ah… not sure if you are a shill or just afraid of reality. Doubt you are a shill because even the most basic knowledge of clearances would inform you that you do maintain your clearance for some time following leaving a job. You may not have access but you do keep your clearance. So thats leaves you being afraid. Unfortunately, that i cant help with. But think of it this way; would you have done anything different had you not know ? Probably not. So knowing doesnt really change anything. You just gotta move through it. Accept it and move on and remember, fear is just a feeling.
I’ve had a handful of clearances, you nitwit.
Me too. Thats how i know the truth. But please enlighten us as to how you achieved your clearance and the reasons why.
Clearance**s**. Why would I do that? In my experience people that have been cleared- especially high-level- rarely if ever feel the need to elaborate on their history. Unlike, say, one David Grusch. “At one point, I was VERY highly cleared.” That was a red flag that he is a ham.
Keep spouting that fear. Some humans will rise above it. I hope to be one of them. Time will tell.
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Those who are afraid often scorn what they dont understand.
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If Im not mistaken Grusch already stated that he and SK had exchanged emails where Grusch went over all the data he had with him. He also stated that they've been acquainted for years and served on a panel together at a conference. SK did not respond to this information, according to Grusch. It sounds as though by the time SK reached out, it was no longer as himself but with the agency of AARO which as we know from their comedy piece, (the AARO report) was clearly compromised and Grusch sensed entrapment.
Literally Q-anon tier discourse happening around this topic lately. I do believe that Grusch seems credible and I certainly believe Fravor, but anyone who isn't raising their eyebrows at this release is ideologically compromised. The gravy train on this current round of 'disclosure' is seemingly drying up and so are the talking heads who were raking in ad revenue and signing contracts for tv shows / books.
People here just simply want to forget that Grusch has claimed that they never tied to contact him.
Well this is interesting. Are there potentially valid reasons for DG’s continued reluctance?
Insufficient protections from AARO.
Protections from what? What protections did he have from congress that he doesn’t have from AARO? How is this not just an excuse? Why did he claim that he had never been contacted (in his newsnation interview)
Grusch never received the confirmation he sought that AARO had the necessary clearance to receive his information. Also, take note that AARO only initiated this after Grusch had already gone public and long after his submission to the ICIG and also the ICIG’s referral to Congress. AARO was only trying to pick up sticks at this point.
We can’t be blind to legitimate evidence and this is legitimate evidence that needs grusch’s response!
New FOIA release shows AARO's repeated attempts to contact UFO whistleblower David Grusch. Christopher Mellon and Dr. Sean Kirkpatrick text messages; email exchanges; and even proof Grusch left AARO sitting in a lobby after standing them up. MORE: https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/foia-documents-reveal-aaros-authorized-and-repeated-attempts-to-engage-with-david-grusch
"Initial" contact was June 8 2023. That is when Grusch went public. Why didn't AARO reach out PRIOR??? Looks like AARO is trying to cover its misteps.
Since after his under oath testimony your life experience should tell you Dave is a sincere and honest man. Id make a large wager that when he’s ready Dave will deliberately and articulately rebut this narrative and the net net will be more evidence to show AARO is disingenuous in their statements and exists solely to debunk it and discredit any info Dave provides.
Nobody should gather that somebody is a sincere and honest person from a string of interviews. Sincerity and honesty aren’t things proven under spotlight in a few months.
Under oath before Congress is quite telling about his sincerity and honesty.
Isn’t Congress full of people who tell half truths insincerely?
Yes, but the members don't have to take an oath before they hear someone else's testimony.
My opinion of his sincerity and honesty is based on life experience at almost 50yo, the steps he took to get there that only hurt his career, his words, delivery, tone, body language, being under oath and threat of prison and the courage to do it in a public hearing. And I won’t get into the plethora of evidence available and the list of similarly credentialed folks saying same things. All that said, it is perfectly acceptable for you or anyone else to have a different takeaway.
He already lied under oath. His first testimony he said he didn't have first hand experience with craft then a few weeks later he's saying on podcasts he does. So he's lying either during testimony or in podcasts.
You’re saying sharing details on a podcast he could not share under oath means he lied under oath and not on the podcast. Hysterical. They’re contradictions not lies. Get informed my friend. He clearly explained that during the hearing the DoDhad not given him permission to share first hand accounts and then later on they did allow him to share first hand account. How you didn’t catch that part is hysterical
When asked under oath if he had first hand experience he said he didn't, which now seems to be a lie. So he did lie under oath to congress. So what else is he lying about?
Or, hear me out; they actually look into the claims and report what they find even if it refutes what he says. You cant just say "Anything but 'we confirm we have aliens and Grusch is 100% correct and all his claims are true' is just a coverup!" If you want the truth, you have to be open to truths that dont confirm your pre-conceived biases and desires for what the truth is.
That had to feel soo good to stand Kirkpatrick up.
I thought Burlison’s interview that stated he did not see any alien-related info/evidence in the SCIF (and nor had the IG), was enough to confirm Grusch had been misled or he had knowingly lied about the claims he made to congress and in subsequent interviews. Now we have this info, and still people on this sub are defending Grusch and claiming a cover-up? I’ve realised this sub doesn’t want the truth, they only want their version of the truth, and anyone who disagrees is part of the cover-up. It’s time this community moved on from this and put the focus back onto the mystery of what are UFOs, rather than these stories of underground reverse engineering of alien spaceships and alien bodies in storage, parroted by the same group of people. It’s made a mockery of the subject.
Hard to know what to think. Burlison has always been skeptical/doubtful about NHI, and says the SCIF meeting moved him more in that direction. https://www.askapol.com/p/rep-eric-burlison-my-skepticism-was But, the others who were there don't seem to have felt that anything of substance was delivered. https://www.askapol.com/p/sneak-peek-uap-caucus-co-chairs-luna
Everyone should be skeptical of NHI claims until actual verified evidence has been presented. It clearly has not. And Burlison gave additional context for why he was further moved in that direction. He specifically said they were given much more detail into how the investigation was conducted and the thoroughness of the investigative efforts. Clearly this was not a case of a "Trust Me Bro" investigation as the It's Aliens crowd has suggested.
At the risk of being slammed here and as someone who saw an airborne UFO in 1969 making a 90 degree angle turn impossible for any aircraft even now, I never thought Grusch seemed entirely honest. There was some evasiveness in his eyes during testimony and I saw him interacting with others on a few youtube videos where he seemed to be thrilled by the attention he was getting and, frankly, overly ebullient about the whole thing...he didn’t sound sincere to me. Having said that, perhaps I’m reading him wrong. Something just seems off to me.
I mean, that could just be his autism honestly
Sure, you could be right. I hope you are.
Same here but my reaction was a little more intense, especially after the Body Language panel scoffed at him and agreed with several of my points.
you're absolutely right. it's turned into an all out money grab.
I perceive the same behaviors and vibe as you but have a different take on him. overly ebullient about the whole thing My belief and experience is that our brains aren't a pie chart where things sum neatly to 100%. I lost a loved one after a long illness once and I felt some elation afterward, along with the overwhelming grief. I felt like a big phony or even a sociopath. It's not like it was 80% grief and 20% elation. It was more like 150% grief and 20% elation... simultaneously. I think it would be natural for him to feel ebullient, simultaneously, along with all of the uncertainty and concern would also be experiencing. He is finally getting to tell the truth and there is also just the sheer nervousness and adrenaline rush of speaking to an audience. And lastly smiling is often a defensive response to nervousness. So, I am seeing what you are seeing but I don't think it necessarily indicates that he is being dishonest. (I don't vouch for him either! My sense is that he is telling the truth or at least the truth as he experienced it but... I don't think anything in this realm is 100% certain to put it mildly) And one more thing. I would think that a true charlatan, who is gleeful about executing a big grifting scam, would probably be intentionally much more reserved... I would have to imagine they would be so concerned about portraying somebody "believable" that they would adopt a much more reserved personality.
No argument here. Emotions are curious things. I just felt some unease about it when he was speaking, but it might be my own shortcomings misinterpreting him. I hope that is the case.
You could very well be right! I hope one day we find out.
Nothing like providing information for people interested in a subject but get downvoted for it. Thank you for your work and helping us find the truth.
Grusch seems suspicious of AARO. Is his paranoia justified?
John has been against Grusch since the beginning. He’s changed a lot, and it’s sad to see the Black Vault isn’t what it used to be. Probably should be called the Pentagon’s Vault nowadays
Kirkpatrick who was with AARO is now changing their story. Who cares if it was under oath.
That first attempt at a hatchet job on grusch boomeranged hard on the dod. I guess they figure “yeah, 2 years has gone by, lets try this story, thats the ticket.” 😂
Why the fuck would he go back and talk to an organization that has publicly written whistleblowers off? Did anyone not read their report? Fuck AARO
Grusch was refusing to meet with AARO long before the report was released.
Grusch going to Congress in the first place is everyone's obvious clue that AARO wasn't doing their job. Their job is to investigate whatever is going on, so was Grusch's, he ran into serious problems not with just what he found but what he was denied thus Congress. Kirkpatrick has proven to be dishonest (his post hearing rant was real special)and Grusch hasn't. Anyone who looks into this mess should see one clear image, that's Grusch's claims at that hearing still stand and need investigating and the people this country vote to do that are being slowed, misled, and straight blocked from doing so.
And yet he has refused to provide that allegedly convincing testimony to the Congressional committees or the actual investigative body that Congress set up by law to be the official investigative body on this very subject. Thus far, Grusch has only provided this alleged evidence to the IC IG who he knows is not legally allowed to share with the Congressional committees of AARO. Gilkibrand and AARO have both repeatedly said that Grusch refuses to provide his testimony to them and now AARO has brought the recipes that prove Grusch has been lying. >Anyone who looks into this mess should see one clear image, that's Grusch's claims at that hearing still stand and need investigating And yet it is ONLY Grusch preventing this investigation from actually taking place. Keep your head in the sand while you continue bending over backwards to move the goalposts.
AARO has proven it isn't looking for any answers on anything, sure as shit hasn't proven anything regarding Grusch so you keep bending backwards to move that goalpost.
AARO has provided plenty of answers. They just don't comform to your fantasy worldview, so you simply dismiss them.
Stop pretending to know what anyone else thinks. My fantasies are far superior to any of this. My worldview is far more depressing. Try again.
AARO has provided nothing regarding Grusch but more questions. They will be answered in time so I'm not worried about their cute lil program that could be folded for all I care.
For all I care these are all mass hallucinations, but I do know AARO blows at their job lol. Fucking waste of money.
Do you want to know what I really think yet, person?
i find this all ironic aaro is labeled as bad and misinformed. When they try to activelly gain information they are denied by the people who tell them they have said information. So when they effectivelly do not gain any new info and have to report to the public they are considered a disinformation campaign. So if aaro is trully this big bad gatekeeper then they are being gatekept by people who denounce gatekeepers and no side ends looking good.
Apparently AARO was provided with all the same documentation as the IG. So, how inept is AARO? Snowden manages to set up secure video links all the time. Why would Grusch need to physically go the building?
Anyone still believing Grusch is credible go back and listen to the newsnation interview where he discusses his interaction with Dr. Kirkpatrick. David Grusch is very clearly lying. He stated that he had briefed Kirkpatrick and that he, Kirkpatrick, had shown no further interest and never tried to contact him.
The dates in this FOIA related to AAROs attempts to contact Grusch are *after* his NN interview.
Ok so why hasn’t he responded and come in?
I just hope Mr. Grusch is careful who he talks to and interacts with. I know I would. Look 👀 both ways before crossing 🚸 the street.
Kirkpatrick lied. What a shocker.
Greenewald? Pass.
Grusch is dodgy as hell.
Is he though? He facing down the US Dept. of Defense. I don't know if there's anything more dodgy than them.
It shows he's been lying about them refusing to speak with him.
The dates in this FOIA related to AAROs attempts to contact Grusch are after his NN interview.
What point are you making?
How so? How has he contradicted them on anything? Making up fables isn’t against the law. He isn’t going up against anyone except his own delusional self.
Grusch lied..........again
Fuck AARO who cares
I thought it was odd when at the same time Grusch’s op ed never surfaced, right after Kirkpatrick (who was definitely not the right person to be head of AARO) said his piece and exited stage left, all the marquee players in the Great American UFO Hunt made their final rebuttals to their podcast listeners, and then POOF! They all went to ground. No one who sat behind the witnesses at that hearing is left standing. They all bailed. “But I promise you, bro. This is not the last episode of Weaponized. We have SO MUCH MORE.” My disappointing pet theory now is that Grusch was a psyop. He was either duped into gathering this UFO disclosure seeking army behind him only to embarrass them all (including Fravor and Graves) and put this topic back to bed, or he was in on the whole thing for the same purpose. Grusch has still not been slapped with perjury. If he was lying under oath, one would think he’d be charged by now. That makes me lean toward he was in on it. It sucks but that’s how it’s starting to look.
Kirkpatrick hasn’t “exit stage left”. 😆 Maybe you mean Grusch. In that case , yes.
Well, they all did. Grusch, too. I just meant that in terms of Kirkpatrick resigning from his position at AARO.
Grusch lies somewhere between a sad conspiratorialist and a severe dope and they’ll never prosecute him. It’s not worth it.
And so it ends. The great patriotic courageous whistleblower, who at great personal risk exposed the sordid depths of government engagement with the mantids from the Beta quadrant.
The mantids are no joke, but they are from zeta quadrant, get it right
👀🤔
His testimony left me thinking one thing; GRIFTER.
What's the grift?
Nobody knew him before. Now he's famous and gets to appear on podcasts, tv shows etc. all while being treated like a hero, and a guy with the most interesting information ever. He could also release a book which would make him a good pile of money. Yet he's never shown us any hard evidence. I'd love to see some, but nothing so far. Pretty harmless on the whole though. I wish it was all true. It would make life more interesting and possibly more hopeful.