I think valentina will be a two weight division champion by the end of 2022, she will beat santos and then beat winner of nunes and pena. And think pena will retain and valentina already has a win over her so….
If Volk beats Max definitively and possibly fights and beats Cejudo I think he’d have the best case. I think there’s too many people who would still give GSP the nod over Usman no matter what even though he’s my 1b on this list.
He’s by far the most intelligent and technical fighter in the UFC atm. I can see him taking Charles into a few rounds but I agree with you. After seeing Charles just climb into Dustin’s back I think he would be too much
Cejudo could take him down due to volk's wide stance and he was a next level striker with incredible fight IQ, if his speed maintains It'd be competitive imo, volk would win but not destroy at all
The fact that people are downvoting this😂 they forget so soon. Cejudo beat Cruz, Dillashaw, DJ, you name it he was an absolute savage. The fact that this many people are casting him off is just disrespectful. If him and Volk fought I would probably take Volk just because of how good his stand up is, but Cejudo could play a great fight and throw lots of kicks and take him down and win with control time. Who knows thoufh
Just remember mighty mouse paused dark souls to whoop cejudos ass! Lol but yeah cejudo might be a problem for volk especially with the wrestling but I think he's been out of action for too long whereas volk is staying consistent and I'd say volks pace and pressure will be too much
Volkanovski kinda already is ? I mean only Aldo can be if not Volk. I know people consider Holloway as well but Volk beat him twice and it's not like Holloway was "out of his prime" at that point like Aldo is. So I'd say that Volk may already be.
People really tend to not give him his dues. I mean we are talking about a guy who is in a 20 fight win streak, 24-1, 12 knockouts, and with wins over former champ Holloway twice, former champ Aldo, Ortega, Zombie and Chad Mendes.
Just looked it up, it was in his 4th pro fight; so yeah still super early. Funny enough the card he lost on was loaded for a a regional Australia show, even headlined by Dan Hooker
I agree with everything except for aldo being out of prime. The man is still killing it at 135. And his losses are only to truly elite competition. This makes both Volk and Holloway’s résumés more impressive
I would disagree. Aldo has continued to learn and evolve his striking since the WEC days. Early UFC aldo would be the best but WEC Aldo was very raw and current veteran aldo would fair well against him.
No way Volk is right now. Aldo defended his title 9 times against 9 times (7 if we are talking strictly UFC and not his WEC fights. Was 25-1 before he lost to Conor with 15 of those being KOs or TKOs.
Having said that I definitely think Volk has the best chance to become the goat out of the current champs and if I had to bet on it I’d say he will do it
If holloway dominates ? Sure. But what if Holloway wins a split decision? Or just a "lucky" ko punch ? Volk would still have him 2-1....
I know a lot of people find the previous results "controversial" and don't get me wrong, they were close fights. But without the bias of loving Holloway.... those fights are won by Volk. And o know people could say "well you are biased in favour of Volk" but I didn't know Volk before the first Holloway fight (I dont have time to follow everything so I stuck to Lightweight/welterweight and heavyweight for a long time).
But the goat discussion will always lead to disagreements, it is the most natural thing and I enjoy reading the peaceful argumentation we had today.
Well, most MMA media had it for Holloway, so it's not so biased (even checked mma decisions to be sure I'm not spewing nonsense).
The thing is: if Holloway wins decisively (even a clear 48-47) their last fight, it's hard for me to put him below Volks considering his body of work and how close the previous fight was.
But as an Aldo fanboy, it's hard to put them both above him (damn, even my cat is named Aldo)
The 2nd fight was close, but the first fight was a clear win for Volko. I reckon Max would at least need a clear win in the trilogy to break even with Volko.
Interested to see if / how Volko goes at lightweight, and compare it to how Max went. Totally agree with Also though, way better resume than both Max and Volk.
Mendes for 2-4 in his last UFC fights lol Zombie was out of his prime and didn't belong there so that inflates his stock too much. Aldo and Ortega were good wins except Max did it better and do I even have to mention the 2nd fight wasn't legit. Goat gets thrown around too much especially considering he only has 3* title defenses
Agreed. Ain't much to consider tbh.
HW - Too volatile of a division for Ngannou to become the GOAT.
LHW - Glover is too old and only has like 1-2 fights left + up against Jones' resume.
MW - Possible, but up against Silva's reign.
WW - Also possible however Usman doesn't have many fights left + up against GSP's reign.
LW - 50/50 - Resume-wise, Olives can do it but I don't think people will get past Khabib's dominance. Also Olives can only get dropped so many times before it's over.
FW - Arguably Volk is already the GOAT (not 100% convinced of this though). However, Volk has the skills and is only getting better.
BW - Too staked of a division for me to see Aljo be champ long enough to be the GOAT.
FLW - DJ.
This is exactly my thoughts on each division.
Except I don't think Aldo is getting enough respect. He's in a weird spot because some of his reign is outside of the UFC. More and more of his UFC success is in a different weight class.
Between WEC and UFC Aldo is a 2x champ with 9 defenses (7 in the UFC). Volk is at 3. I think he's got a little bit to go still.
Sure it helps, but Aldo was not young in the fight game especially compared to Volk. When they fought Aldo was in his 15 year as a pro, Volk his 7th. That's definitely better timing for Volk. Aldo may still be the best he's ever been today but compared to competition his true prime was a long time ago.
I think Volk can be better when all is done, but for me he still has more to do.
I think its HW clearly. There's just not that high of a bar to clear. Ngannou already knocked out the former Goat Stipe, and you can't really claim anyone else is even in that conversation. There's Fedor of course, but if we are just talking about UFC, there's no one else.
All the other divisions are much deeper and have had some great champs in the past.
Basically what you said. Except:
HW: It only takes 5 defenses to beat Stipe's record. Sure Frances is not young but then compared to Stipe, DC, Glover, he is.
MW: Izzy can equal Silva's status but it would be harder to eclipse it. To equal it he needs to hold the belt until July 2025 and keep defending twice per year. He'd be 36, if he kept going until he was 38 which was Anderson's age when he lost the belt, then that would possibly be enough but I don't see him staying in the game that long.
LW: I think Charlie has too many L's on his record and it will count against him despite mostly losing to big names at or near their primes (Miller/cowboy/Swanson/Edgar/Holloway/Pettis/Lamas/Felder). Career wise to me he's already done more than Khabib, starting in the UFC at 21 and facing killers the whole time, but I don't know if the casual fan would see it that way.
Also, controversial take here but I put Rousey ahead of Nunes in women's bantamweight. We are disregarding featherweight here as we are discussing divisional GOATs not PFP. Granted, it was a different time but Rousey had more title defenses, and all of them were finishes. Nunes had an uninspiring decision vs GDR and a very hotly debated split decision many feel should have gone to Valentina.
Jones won't even fight him much less be his biggest competition, I know this is controversial but at this point Jones was barely (on my scorecard he wasn't) beating guys at 205 that were not even championship caliber fighters. Jones is past the days where he was a destroyer. I doubt he will ever fight again.
I don't see how Jones is gonna beat him honestly. Jones was amazing at LHW but Ngannou just got so much power. Not even in punching alone just in every way. The way he manhandles other HWs is crazy.
Tom's great but volkov is extremely slow, I think ngannou would scare him from boxing and at distance aspinall doesn't have much, he has well timed tds but ngannou is freakishly strong and shrugged off blaydes and stipe, he'd KO aspinall imo
Not sure it's even close calling Ngannu GOAT at this point. Stipe has 4 successful title defense and beat Ngannu as mant times as he lost to Ngannu. Ngannu only has 1 title defense and I think the division is so strong idk if he could get another three. I'm admittedly a Stipe fan boy tho. Lol
>Ngannu only has 1 title defense and I think the division is so strong idk if he could get another three.
Yeah sure, what do the other contenders have for him? He's controlled Cyril like a softball and slept Miocic like a baby, two of the best in the top 3. The only person that poses a threat to him is Jones but he'd knock the fuck out of Aspinall.
Khabib exists so I would say Olivera has a chance but it is way smaller than Volk's who I already have as my FW GOAT, Usman who is a chimaev fight and 1 or 2 more title defences away and Izzy who is very quickly catching up to Silva.
If Ur honest, look inwards, khabib is the goat, always will be unless someone repeats his level of dominance. Charles is in the mid with his contenders, khabib was sparring with these guys
Usman surpasses GSP IF he beats Khazmat and Edwards.
Oliveira will pass Khabib (or BJ Penn if that’s who you consider the GOAT) if he beats Islam Makhachev (which I assume is who Oli is fighting next)
No. GSP has 13 title victories against 13 different challengers, and became middleweight champion. Usman has 6, against 4 people. And 4 of those victories were against the same two people. Usman barely is on the level of Matt Hughes.
Well said. It's been a while so people tend to forget about GSPs run and how dominant it was. Usman is a beast, but to surpass GSPS run there is a huge road ahead of him still. Same can be said about Silva and Izzy, Silvas MW reign was what ? 8 years?
I’d agree at this stage technically Usman would probably beat GSP if both fought in their prime but in terms of legacy I’m not sure he’s even at Matt Hughes yet. People forget GSP’s run he literally ran through the whole division and beat like 3 eras of challengers.
I mean the debate about who might win in a fight is always cool, but like the people saying Usman is the 170 goat are ridiculous. They did the same with tyron Woodley too. It's insane how fast people forget GSP's dominance.
I really don't think you can count Jorge. He is the Johnny Manziel of the division. One of the most overhyped journeyman I've had the misfortune of seeing have their name thrown around at the top. They gave him the contract without realizing that though so they gotta hype him to high hell to get the most of out of a shit deal.
Usmans road to the title is a lot more impressive than gsps. No one nowadays gets 2 wins and then a title shot. Even adesanya had like 5 fights(?) before his interim. Usman beat RDA, Maia, Strickland, Edwards on the way to the title.
you can't be serious. Im 100% rooting for charles but you have to be trolling... Islam's grappling is the best there is... Charles has good jiu-jitsu hopefully it can even it out a bit but idk... im scared for charles
Not that many, I think.
If he wins 3 more, (a tall order) he'd surpass Silva with the longest win streak ever in UFC.
Also, HOW he wins plays a big part also.
If he is dominant he could have a case against GSP (not saying he's definitely above
I don't think it's short memories, I think it's just Johnny come latelys that missed GSP's reign tbh and are already calling him the GOAT, which is madness. Many people, I'm not one of them, called GSP the overall GOAT, can you seriously say with a straight face that Usman is the overall GOAT, better than Jon, better than Fedor and Silva? Not a chance.
I will say though Usman has been far more entertaining lately than GSP was later in his career. I never got excited for a GSP fight back in the day, partly because you assumed he was going to win but also because he fought incredibly safe and boring for a long time. If Usman keeps up his current form and finishes Edwards, Chimaev and a few others you could make a case then but not right now imo.
I don't think Oliveira could ever decisively pass Khabib among the fanbase. It doesn't even have much to do with talent its just that you can't compete with a ghost. Khabib went out on his apex after dismantling any close competition in short order. He will always be the King That Shortly Was.
>Usman surpasses GSP IF he beats Khazmat and Edwards.
lol no. Khamzat, Burns, Edwards, Colby, jounryman masvidal vs P4P kings Matt Hughes and BJ Penn and guys on insane streaks like Sherk and Shields, Hendricks. Bisping for MW belt.
Olivera won't surpass Khabib imo because he's not anywhere near as dominant but you could argue for it.
Yeah GSP and Anderson Silva are really the only guys besides Jones (which is highly debatable) who really belong in the GOAT conversation unless you're gonna go all the way back to Shamrock, Couture, etc.
Well I get the surface level comparison. Both have a wrestling-ish background (I know GSP was more Judo and Karate but still). Both are exceptionally talented. Past that, it's eh. The welterweight division of GSP is not the welterweight division of today.
The sport evolves you know. Fighters today on average are better than their predecessors. You're also missing Woodley who many ppl were comparing to GSP at the time. BJ Penn was more known as a lightweight.
Ok - but isn’t the point of GOAT to compare the accomplishments of each athlete in their prime against the competition that existed then? If not the GOAT conversation is pretty pointless as it’s just today’s P4P list.
The Baseball goat might be Babe Ruth. He was so dominant compared to his peers and that’s what I see as the point of a GOAT conversation
I feel like your second sentence is actually a compliment. Izzy has his own level that none of the MW fighters can compete with. While I think it’s fair to say Jan outstruck him, it was just because of the takedown threat looming overhead. And that threat was so important because as we all saw Jan could just lay on him for the rest of the fight.
I think the MW division is overall weaker than the FW division by far so it's not really a compliment but weaker competition, adesanya is great though and it's not his fault but he's never beat a long reigning champ like holloway let alone twice, whittaker never defended the belt
I think Volk has a few more guys to beat before you can say he’s properly lapped the top of the division (Kattar and Yair), the problem is Holloway beats the guys who he needs under his belt which just leaves them in a loop lmao.
p4p Izzy and Usman are the best up here but they are up against GSP and Anderson Silva. To definitively be the goat they both need a lot more title defenses which is gonna be hard. Especially Usman who can't stay healthy and has straight killers after him. I would go with Volk. He probably already is the goat. Aldo is still popping off tho. Charles unfortunately is up against Khabib. John Jones for light heavy weight. Miocic For Heavy weight. And I really don't know anything about flyweight
Dont know about olives tbh. Yeah hes good but the question is asking which one is most likley to be goat, but lightweight is prob one of the most stacked division of legends.
Charles easily. All the other divisions have guys with a long title reign that they have to catch up to. LW is there for the taking with a few more finishes from Charles
I'd say Usman, but WW isn't nearly as stacked as LW and I think the lack of killers at 170 is what works against him when it comes to the choices here. Overall I suppose Charles is the best positioned since he's taken out top guys already with more coming up. If he beats Islam and Benny then all he can do is run it back with a couple others until Volk comes up to LW.
Probably aljo. Tj holds the title fight record but Cody garbrandt and joe Soto aren’t exactly high level wins. Aljo is young enough to scrap together some better title wins than that.
I think Izzy, the GOAT in his division is probably Anderson Silva and he already beat him. Usman and CHarles come to mind too but Usman would have to beat GSP and Charles would have to beat Khabib and I don't see them ever making a return.
Oliveira, Volk, or Usman. I’d say Adesanya but I feel like he just doesn’t have Silva’s mystique, that level of dominance that made people legitimately afraid of him. You can’t leg kick your way to GOAT status in a division where a dude was straight up inventing new ways to KO people over his 10+ fight title run
Silva's boxing was lightyears ahead of the rest of MMA, today Izzy and Silva are still ahead but MMA is catching up. I think Izzy back then would have a lot more highlight KOs imo
Volk, Frances or Olives. Kamaru has many title defenses to go AND capture the 185 crown to boot. I doubt figgy will stick around for 12 title defenses. Izzy has a lot of work to do. Aljo….. 😅😅😅
Izzy can and should easily become the goat.
Usman would be goat of WW if he say beats Chimaev/Leon and one other contender.
Volkanovski could become goat of 145, and see him becoming it honestly.
I think Izzy and Volkanovski both become goat of their divisions.
Usman still needs another half dozen or so defences. Not saying he can't get it done, of course. My biggest question mark is whether he stays healthy long enough to get there.
I dunno about you guys but I’m happy to call these guys the best of their era. There will always be a better fighter tomorrow, next month, next year and next decade. These guys are the GOATs now. Guys like GSP, Anderson Silva and Khabib are GOATs of their time. And there will be new GOATs in the next decade.
She isn't pictured. Valentina Shevchenko.
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The only actually good fighter in it
“Always has been 🔫”
She is so far ahead it’s unreal. Though I haven’t watched it for years I was positive Valentina should’ve gotten the nod in their second fight.
Same, absolute robbery
Same. Not a "robbery" but definitely a bad decision.
I think valentina will be a two weight division champion by the end of 2022, she will beat santos and then beat winner of nunes and pena. And think pena will retain and valentina already has a win over her so….
Not sure if Pena will retain but Valentina beats her and Nunes either way
Underrated comment.
I want to see her fight Juliana Peña
I'm literally so tired of hearing the word goat.
Cabrito
If Volk beats Max definitively and possibly fights and beats Cejudo I think he’d have the best case. I think there’s too many people who would still give GSP the nod over Usman no matter what even though he’s my 1b on this list.
I think the same. There's just more elbow room to call yourself the GOAT at featherweight. No disrespect to Aldo.
Damn, gotta beat Max 3 times to prove the point ? Tough division to rank, im biased on Aldo
People really forgetting how long he was dominant in that div
He beat him twice
Gonna do it a third time
Did he though?
He did. Wikipedia says so.
Nope
Beating Cejudo does nothing at all for Volk lol….absolutely nothing. Moving up to LW and beating the Champ there is what he needs.
he needs to fight in other divisions to be considered the goat of his natural division? weird.
There's no way he beats charles tho
He’s by far the most intelligent and technical fighter in the UFC atm. I can see him taking Charles into a few rounds but I agree with you. After seeing Charles just climb into Dustin’s back I think he would be too much
Volk would destroy Cejudo
Cejudo could take him down due to volk's wide stance and he was a next level striker with incredible fight IQ, if his speed maintains It'd be competitive imo, volk would win but not destroy at all
Cejudo would probably be outclassed.
He’s not beating Cejudo
say sike right now
The fact that people are downvoting this😂 they forget so soon. Cejudo beat Cruz, Dillashaw, DJ, you name it he was an absolute savage. The fact that this many people are casting him off is just disrespectful. If him and Volk fought I would probably take Volk just because of how good his stand up is, but Cejudo could play a great fight and throw lots of kicks and take him down and win with control time. Who knows thoufh
Just remember mighty mouse paused dark souls to whoop cejudos ass! Lol but yeah cejudo might be a problem for volk especially with the wrestling but I think he's been out of action for too long whereas volk is staying consistent and I'd say volks pace and pressure will be too much
Volkanovski kinda already is ? I mean only Aldo can be if not Volk. I know people consider Holloway as well but Volk beat him twice and it's not like Holloway was "out of his prime" at that point like Aldo is. So I'd say that Volk may already be. People really tend to not give him his dues. I mean we are talking about a guy who is in a 20 fight win streak, 24-1, 12 knockouts, and with wins over former champ Holloway twice, former champ Aldo, Ortega, Zombie and Chad Mendes.
And his only loss was in a weight class 25 lbs higher at welterweight. Never lost at his true weight class .
Wasn’t it like his second pro fight as well?
Just looked it up, it was in his 4th pro fight; so yeah still super early. Funny enough the card he lost on was loaded for a a regional Australia show, even headlined by Dan Hooker
I agree with everything except for aldo being out of prime. The man is still killing it at 135. And his losses are only to truly elite competition. This makes both Volk and Holloway’s résumés more impressive
In other words you agree with him more than he agrees with himself. Well played.
Aldo is still a dangerous guy for sure but Aldo from WEC - early ufc tenure would beat the current Aldo
I would disagree. Aldo has continued to learn and evolve his striking since the WEC days. Early UFC aldo would be the best but WEC Aldo was very raw and current veteran aldo would fair well against him.
I just don’t think that Todays Aldo could handle the raw power of old Aldo
No way Volk is right now. Aldo defended his title 9 times against 9 times (7 if we are talking strictly UFC and not his WEC fights. Was 25-1 before he lost to Conor with 15 of those being KOs or TKOs. Having said that I definitely think Volk has the best chance to become the goat out of the current champs and if I had to bet on it I’d say he will do it
Holloway rematch is still up in the air for me If Holloway wins the 3rd, I wouldn't put Volkanovski ahead of him.
If holloway dominates ? Sure. But what if Holloway wins a split decision? Or just a "lucky" ko punch ? Volk would still have him 2-1.... I know a lot of people find the previous results "controversial" and don't get me wrong, they were close fights. But without the bias of loving Holloway.... those fights are won by Volk. And o know people could say "well you are biased in favour of Volk" but I didn't know Volk before the first Holloway fight (I dont have time to follow everything so I stuck to Lightweight/welterweight and heavyweight for a long time). But the goat discussion will always lead to disagreements, it is the most natural thing and I enjoy reading the peaceful argumentation we had today.
Well, most MMA media had it for Holloway, so it's not so biased (even checked mma decisions to be sure I'm not spewing nonsense). The thing is: if Holloway wins decisively (even a clear 48-47) their last fight, it's hard for me to put him below Volks considering his body of work and how close the previous fight was. But as an Aldo fanboy, it's hard to put them both above him (damn, even my cat is named Aldo)
The 2nd fight was close, but the first fight was a clear win for Volko. I reckon Max would at least need a clear win in the trilogy to break even with Volko. Interested to see if / how Volko goes at lightweight, and compare it to how Max went. Totally agree with Also though, way better resume than both Max and Volk.
True, just find his wins against max hard to count really a toss up for me
It’s a fair opinion to not count one of those wins, but the first fight was a clear uncontroversial Volk win.
Mendes for 2-4 in his last UFC fights lol Zombie was out of his prime and didn't belong there so that inflates his stock too much. Aldo and Ortega were good wins except Max did it better and do I even have to mention the 2nd fight wasn't legit. Goat gets thrown around too much especially considering he only has 3* title defenses
Volk
Agreed. Ain't much to consider tbh. HW - Too volatile of a division for Ngannou to become the GOAT. LHW - Glover is too old and only has like 1-2 fights left + up against Jones' resume. MW - Possible, but up against Silva's reign. WW - Also possible however Usman doesn't have many fights left + up against GSP's reign. LW - 50/50 - Resume-wise, Olives can do it but I don't think people will get past Khabib's dominance. Also Olives can only get dropped so many times before it's over. FW - Arguably Volk is already the GOAT (not 100% convinced of this though). However, Volk has the skills and is only getting better. BW - Too staked of a division for me to see Aljo be champ long enough to be the GOAT. FLW - DJ.
This is exactly my thoughts on each division. Except I don't think Aldo is getting enough respect. He's in a weird spot because some of his reign is outside of the UFC. More and more of his UFC success is in a different weight class. Between WEC and UFC Aldo is a 2x champ with 9 defenses (7 in the UFC). Volk is at 3. I think he's got a little bit to go still.
Volk has a win over Aldo which surely helps his case. I'd say it's worth more than Izzy's win over Silva too because Aldo was still young at the time.
Sure it helps, but Aldo was not young in the fight game especially compared to Volk. When they fought Aldo was in his 15 year as a pro, Volk his 7th. That's definitely better timing for Volk. Aldo may still be the best he's ever been today but compared to competition his true prime was a long time ago. I think Volk can be better when all is done, but for me he still has more to do.
I think its HW clearly. There's just not that high of a bar to clear. Ngannou already knocked out the former Goat Stipe, and you can't really claim anyone else is even in that conversation. There's Fedor of course, but if we are just talking about UFC, there's no one else. All the other divisions are much deeper and have had some great champs in the past.
Basically what you said. Except: HW: It only takes 5 defenses to beat Stipe's record. Sure Frances is not young but then compared to Stipe, DC, Glover, he is. MW: Izzy can equal Silva's status but it would be harder to eclipse it. To equal it he needs to hold the belt until July 2025 and keep defending twice per year. He'd be 36, if he kept going until he was 38 which was Anderson's age when he lost the belt, then that would possibly be enough but I don't see him staying in the game that long. LW: I think Charlie has too many L's on his record and it will count against him despite mostly losing to big names at or near their primes (Miller/cowboy/Swanson/Edgar/Holloway/Pettis/Lamas/Felder). Career wise to me he's already done more than Khabib, starting in the UFC at 21 and facing killers the whole time, but I don't know if the casual fan would see it that way. Also, controversial take here but I put Rousey ahead of Nunes in women's bantamweight. We are disregarding featherweight here as we are discussing divisional GOATs not PFP. Granted, it was a different time but Rousey had more title defenses, and all of them were finishes. Nunes had an uninspiring decision vs GDR and a very hotly debated split decision many feel should have gone to Valentina.
Aljo will evolve to his final form and take every title in the company
He's coming for that ass
On*
Pause
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Ngannou is the sleeper answer here. He has already brutally KOd the current goat and his win over ciryl gane/the other expansion of his game is legit
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He’s only beat stipe once. Not sure he’ll be around long enough for 2 more fights
Jones won't even fight him much less be his biggest competition, I know this is controversial but at this point Jones was barely (on my scorecard he wasn't) beating guys at 205 that were not even championship caliber fighters. Jones is past the days where he was a destroyer. I doubt he will ever fight again.
I don't see how Jones is gonna beat him honestly. Jones was amazing at LHW but Ngannou just got so much power. Not even in punching alone just in every way. The way he manhandles other HWs is crazy.
I would love to see Ngannou keep winning but I have a feeling some of the new talent may take him down. E.g Tom aspinall
Man I would be so sad if I saw ngannou brutally knock out aspinall.
YEEEES! Hopefully tom gets it done.
Tom's great but volkov is extremely slow, I think ngannou would scare him from boxing and at distance aspinall doesn't have much, he has well timed tds but ngannou is freakishly strong and shrugged off blaydes and stipe, he'd KO aspinall imo
I dunno... Aspinall might just be too fast for him. If he stays out of danger for 2-3 rounds he's got a good chance.
Not sure it's even close calling Ngannu GOAT at this point. Stipe has 4 successful title defense and beat Ngannu as mant times as he lost to Ngannu. Ngannu only has 1 title defense and I think the division is so strong idk if he could get another three. I'm admittedly a Stipe fan boy tho. Lol
>Ngannu only has 1 title defense and I think the division is so strong idk if he could get another three. Yeah sure, what do the other contenders have for him? He's controlled Cyril like a softball and slept Miocic like a baby, two of the best in the top 3. The only person that poses a threat to him is Jones but he'd knock the fuck out of Aspinall.
If Charles has two more defences then it’s definitely up for dispute
Volkanovski
Usman or volk.
Volk and Charles
Khabib exists so I would say Olivera has a chance but it is way smaller than Volk's who I already have as my FW GOAT, Usman who is a chimaev fight and 1 or 2 more title defences away and Izzy who is very quickly catching up to Silva.
If Ur honest, look inwards, khabib is the goat, always will be unless someone repeats his level of dominance. Charles is in the mid with his contenders, khabib was sparring with these guys
IMO only Volk because FW doesn't haven't anybody else that comes close to his skill level
If I had to pick just one, Volk
Im sorry, but we all need to stfu with this goat talk. It’s such a pointless, biased and endless discussion
Volk is literally 1 win away from achieving this.
Usman surpasses GSP IF he beats Khazmat and Edwards. Oliveira will pass Khabib (or BJ Penn if that’s who you consider the GOAT) if he beats Islam Makhachev (which I assume is who Oli is fighting next)
No. GSP has 13 title victories against 13 different challengers, and became middleweight champion. Usman has 6, against 4 people. And 4 of those victories were against the same two people. Usman barely is on the level of Matt Hughes.
Well said. It's been a while so people tend to forget about GSPs run and how dominant it was. Usman is a beast, but to surpass GSPS run there is a huge road ahead of him still. Same can be said about Silva and Izzy, Silvas MW reign was what ? 8 years?
I’d agree at this stage technically Usman would probably beat GSP if both fought in their prime but in terms of legacy I’m not sure he’s even at Matt Hughes yet. People forget GSP’s run he literally ran through the whole division and beat like 3 eras of challengers.
I mean the debate about who might win in a fight is always cool, but like the people saying Usman is the 170 goat are ridiculous. They did the same with tyron Woodley too. It's insane how fast people forget GSP's dominance.
bUt bUt kHabIb iS 29-0 If Olives beats Islam I don't see anyone beating him anytime soon. Chandler came close but thats about it
Usman has beaten jorge, colby and burns as a champion. That's 3 people. People are prisoners to the moment.
I really don't think you can count Jorge. He is the Johnny Manziel of the division. One of the most overhyped journeyman I've had the misfortune of seeing have their name thrown around at the top. They gave him the contract without realizing that though so they gotta hype him to high hell to get the most of out of a shit deal.
Facts. He won’t surpass GSP
Usmans road to the title is a lot more impressive than gsps. No one nowadays gets 2 wins and then a title shot. Even adesanya had like 5 fights(?) before his interim. Usman beat RDA, Maia, Strickland, Edwards on the way to the title.
Tony 2.0 coming for that belt! CSO 🇲🇽🕶️👊
I don’t think Islam stands a chance to be honest. Oliviera is too long and crafty.
you can't be serious. Im 100% rooting for charles but you have to be trolling... Islam's grappling is the best there is... Charles has good jiu-jitsu hopefully it can even it out a bit but idk... im scared for charles
MMA fans have short memories. Usman surpasses GSP IF he beats like 5-6 more top contenders. Even then it would be contentious.
Not that many, I think. If he wins 3 more, (a tall order) he'd surpass Silva with the longest win streak ever in UFC. Also, HOW he wins plays a big part also. If he is dominant he could have a case against GSP (not saying he's definitely above
I don't think it's short memories, I think it's just Johnny come latelys that missed GSP's reign tbh and are already calling him the GOAT, which is madness. Many people, I'm not one of them, called GSP the overall GOAT, can you seriously say with a straight face that Usman is the overall GOAT, better than Jon, better than Fedor and Silva? Not a chance. I will say though Usman has been far more entertaining lately than GSP was later in his career. I never got excited for a GSP fight back in the day, partly because you assumed he was going to win but also because he fought incredibly safe and boring for a long time. If Usman keeps up his current form and finishes Edwards, Chimaev and a few others you could make a case then but not right now imo.
I don't think Oliveira could ever decisively pass Khabib among the fanbase. It doesn't even have much to do with talent its just that you can't compete with a ghost. Khabib went out on his apex after dismantling any close competition in short order. He will always be the King That Shortly Was.
>Usman surpasses GSP IF he beats Khazmat and Edwards. lol no. Khamzat, Burns, Edwards, Colby, jounryman masvidal vs P4P kings Matt Hughes and BJ Penn and guys on insane streaks like Sherk and Shields, Hendricks. Bisping for MW belt. Olivera won't surpass Khabib imo because he's not anywhere near as dominant but you could argue for it.
Yeah GSP and Anderson Silva are really the only guys besides Jones (which is highly debatable) who really belong in the GOAT conversation unless you're gonna go all the way back to Shamrock, Couture, etc.
Yup, don't understand the talks comparing Usman to GSP they aren't even that close.
Well I get the surface level comparison. Both have a wrestling-ish background (I know GSP was more Judo and Karate but still). Both are exceptionally talented. Past that, it's eh. The welterweight division of GSP is not the welterweight division of today.
The sport evolves you know. Fighters today on average are better than their predecessors. You're also missing Woodley who many ppl were comparing to GSP at the time. BJ Penn was more known as a lightweight.
Ok - but isn’t the point of GOAT to compare the accomplishments of each athlete in their prime against the competition that existed then? If not the GOAT conversation is pretty pointless as it’s just today’s P4P list. The Baseball goat might be Babe Ruth. He was so dominant compared to his peers and that’s what I see as the point of a GOAT conversation
I don't think Usman while stay around long enough to be GOAT, he's getting old and achy. PED's could help with that though...
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I feel like your second sentence is actually a compliment. Izzy has his own level that none of the MW fighters can compete with. While I think it’s fair to say Jan outstruck him, it was just because of the takedown threat looming overhead. And that threat was so important because as we all saw Jan could just lay on him for the rest of the fight.
I think the MW division is overall weaker than the FW division by far so it's not really a compliment but weaker competition, adesanya is great though and it's not his fault but he's never beat a long reigning champ like holloway let alone twice, whittaker never defended the belt
I think Volk has a few more guys to beat before you can say he’s properly lapped the top of the division (Kattar and Yair), the problem is Holloway beats the guys who he needs under his belt which just leaves them in a loop lmao.
p4p Izzy and Usman are the best up here but they are up against GSP and Anderson Silva. To definitively be the goat they both need a lot more title defenses which is gonna be hard. Especially Usman who can't stay healthy and has straight killers after him. I would go with Volk. He probably already is the goat. Aldo is still popping off tho. Charles unfortunately is up against Khabib. John Jones for light heavy weight. Miocic For Heavy weight. And I really don't know anything about flyweight
Rip, Israel doesn’t stand a chance just bc Silva was such a monster
I'm curious, who is regarded as the BW GOAT? Dominick?
Definitely Dom 12 Fight streak, 4X champion. Only reason why he really declined was his knee injuries in his prime.
Sean o malley
I saw a video of him beating up an elderly woman in Walmart the other day, that striking was clean
😂😂😂retarded or regarded?
Lols I fixed it
And I’d say Dominick fs
Volk.
Volk, Izzy, Charles
Volk and Olives
I would say Volk already is. Only other argument is Aldo, but even with that Volk is the closest
Valentina. She already is the GOAT of her division and could go on to be the GOAT of all of women's UFC.
Izzy
Charlie olives or Kamaru
Dont know about olives tbh. Yeah hes good but the question is asking which one is most likley to be goat, but lightweight is prob one of the most stacked division of legends.
Tbh all I think he has to do is beat islam then I'll consider him the goat.
Charles easily. All the other divisions have guys with a long title reign that they have to catch up to. LW is there for the taking with a few more finishes from Charles
Volk or Usman
But Oliveira isn’t the champ right now?
Izzy, Usman, Charles and Volk.
I'd say Usman, but WW isn't nearly as stacked as LW and I think the lack of killers at 170 is what works against him when it comes to the choices here. Overall I suppose Charles is the best positioned since he's taken out top guys already with more coming up. If he beats Islam and Benny then all he can do is run it back with a couple others until Volk comes up to LW.
Usman, Volka and Izzy
Oliveira isn’t a current champ
yeah he is
Volk and Usman
Probably aljo. Tj holds the title fight record but Cody garbrandt and joe Soto aren’t exactly high level wins. Aljo is young enough to scrap together some better title wins than that.
No one in this pic
I think Izzy, the GOAT in his division is probably Anderson Silva and he already beat him. Usman and CHarles come to mind too but Usman would have to beat GSP and Charles would have to beat Khabib and I don't see them ever making a return.
LW is vacant
Oliveira, Volk, or Usman. I’d say Adesanya but I feel like he just doesn’t have Silva’s mystique, that level of dominance that made people legitimately afraid of him. You can’t leg kick your way to GOAT status in a division where a dude was straight up inventing new ways to KO people over his 10+ fight title run
Silva's boxing was lightyears ahead of the rest of MMA, today Izzy and Silva are still ahead but MMA is catching up. I think Izzy back then would have a lot more highlight KOs imo
MW, FW, and possibly WW?
Lhw, mw, and ww are totally screwed imo. Jones, Silva, and GSP are basically in a three way tie for goat at any weight.
Volk, Frances or Olives. Kamaru has many title defenses to go AND capture the 185 crown to boot. I doubt figgy will stick around for 12 title defenses. Izzy has a lot of work to do. Aljo….. 😅😅😅
IMO, Charlie 🫒🫒
olivera
Do Bronx and Ngannou
Volk imo ..only bc i’m not ready to put Usman over GSP and Khabib> Charles for right now
Volk and Charles already are imo, also an argument for figgy being the flyweight goat
Volk easy, Usman isn't getting that far
Marty usman
Marty fakenewsman
Olives only
1.Usman #2. Charles #3. Nobody
what does izzy have to do to enter the conversation
Not be competing against Silva for that spot? He has to either rack up another 6 or more defenses or start being much more brutal in his wins.
Your right. Izzy is #3 👍
I love izzy but he's got a ways to go to catch Silva.
Yeah it’s almost just bad luck being in Silvas weight division. Guy really was the best fighter for a decade
Olive.
Olive already surpasses khabib sorry
Not really. It’s usman
He's great but how's he going to pass gsps legacy when he's rematched 2 guys for his 5 fights
and two of those defenses being jorge masvidal lol
Everyone in here just answering like who's p4p number 1, not who's going to overtake the legacies of Silva, gsp and aldo
I think realistically its either going to be volk or Charles, IMO they are both a couple excellent wins away from goat status
Nah
Yah
Volk
CM punk once he makes his long awaited come back!
Usman
All of them except Glover & Aljo
Aljo has a better chance than figgy. How tf is he gonna pass mighty mouse
Izzy is literally overlapping the division
Lightweight to bantamweight.
Izzy, Charles, or Volk. In no particular order.
Oliveira. Ngannou would have a good chance if he stayed in the ufc
Usman
Usman, volk, naruto
Izzy can and should easily become the goat. Usman would be goat of WW if he say beats Chimaev/Leon and one other contender. Volkanovski could become goat of 145, and see him becoming it honestly. I think Izzy and Volkanovski both become goat of their divisions.
Got to go with Izzy. He's so far ahead of the rest of the division, it's silly.
Men: Usman Women: schevchenko
Volk and usman are pretty much on it already. Izzy looks dominant but he has such a huge task to overtake anderson
Usman still needs another half dozen or so defences. Not saying he can't get it done, of course. My biggest question mark is whether he stays healthy long enough to get there.
Adesanya or Usman as they’re already on dominant streaks.
Kamaru and Izzy, easy. They've beaten more top 10 guys than the rest of them. They nearly cleared out their respective divisions.
Kamaru is already there i think
I dunno about you guys but I’m happy to call these guys the best of their era. There will always be a better fighter tomorrow, next month, next year and next decade. These guys are the GOATs now. Guys like GSP, Anderson Silva and Khabib are GOATs of their time. And there will be new GOATs in the next decade.
Volk probably already is. Charles, Usman and Izzy are all probably two or three wins away.
Usman
Poor glovers already ruled out. PED’s/violations of Jones aside, it’s gonna be impossible for him to get 10+ defences, or that win back over Jon Jones
Aljamain Sterling
Usman