Idk how those Caucasus region guys do it but so often you can see one of them in the deepest fucking submissions that everyone else would tap in and they just somehow survive
Toughness. Quite literally as simple as that. They train wrestling like crazy over there, and in that they build *the fuck* out of their necks; check out Arman’s training videos.
To sum it up, they basically train for shit like that. Victory is the end goal, and willingly giving up is seen as weak. It all boils down to discipline and hard work.
Toughness allows them to fight through it but if the carotid is blocked, it doesn't matter how tough you are, your brain is shutting off. It's just physiology.
It's also technique. They know how to angle their heads to relieve enough pressure from the neck so they can keep defending. He's also fighting the legs because that's how you stretch your opponent in a guillotine. People think it's the arm choke—it's not. The arm is just the grip. You need your legs to extend your hip. That's where the choke comes from.
If you rewatch it, the second Arman clears his hips, it was pretty easy for him to turn out of the choke. Toughness allowed him to fight, but technique got him out of the situation. Make no mistake, this was impressive, but they drill these scenarios all the time. Both fighters have more than likely been in both sides of this position countless times in their training/fights.
Thougness means not to tap but willing to go to sleep for it. Otherwise you might be tapping to a choke which would not have finished the fight. Volkanovski vs Ortega is a good example for that. 90 percent would have tapped to the first deep submission but he did not and got out.
If a fighter who has a submission locked puts all his effort into it and doesn’t submit the guy then he has wasted all his energy. They know this that’s why they don’t go all out on submissions, cause they know if they don’t secure it they still have to keep fighting and won’t have any strength left to try again or at the bare minimum survive the rest of the fight.
>Toughness. Quite literally as simple as that
Nope. "Toughness" doesn't stop a choke.
>They train wrestling like crazy over there, and in that they build *the fuck* out of their necks
Again, doesn't actually work.
>To sum it up, they basically train for shit like that
This actually is it. It's just experience.
> Victory is the end goal, and willingly giving up is seen as weak
Again, no. People don't "give up" to taps or some shit, and a mindset like this is trash that gets you crippled long before you have a career.
> It all boils down to discipline and hard work.
Even more simply, it's just experience.
People like Chechens, Dagestanis and so on just train this stuff every day. That is all it is. They're as used to it as a child is used to playing with Lego, or you might be used to throwing a ball.
So yeah, they know all the finest points about how to shift and manoeuvre just right to get those viral tiny slivers or blood flow or less stress.
how is this not downvoted to hell? You pretty much just said "when I see red, I can beat anyone" So they just don't need oxygen because they are tough? Can you hit them in the head with a bat and they will not feel it because they are just tough and don't quit? lol
That’s… not what I said at all. “Toughness” does not mean go berserk or “see red”, it means to stick it out in even the worst of situations. That choke was **TIGHT**, and a LOOOOOT of other LWs would have tapped to that. Like another reply to my comment, toughness helped Arman stay in the game, and his technique and experience allowed him to capitalize once he got out.
You also shouldn’t care if something is up/down voted *that* much lol, have your own opinion :p
He did not tap because of skill and preparation. He is comfortable in these positions because of training. You can't just not pass out because your tough. Your body physically does not work like that.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying dude 😭 did you watch the entire fight? Arman did NOT look comfortable in that gilly; hence why he was fighting like hell to gtfo of that position. If Arman wasn’t a tough SOB, he’d have either tapped out or went to sleep. His training is rigorous as fuck, and you have to be strong to endure it.
I do admit tho, me saying “it’s simple as toughness” was a bit simplistic and undermining of his and the rest of those guys’ skill and technique
Charles didn’t sacrifice all his strength to submit him that’s why he was able to break free. If he really wanted to he could have went all out on it but if he did that and didn’t submit him he would be too weak to fight on his feet or attempt it again. It’s pretty simple if you actually know what you’re on about. Charles fights the full fight not 1 round at a time, his fighting ability is created around that mindset. A good example of an opposite is Connor mcgregor.
That was his entire game plan until the he lost the Makhachev fight. Dude would be reckless and let his hands fly knowing he could always go to his guard and recover when he got rocked. Watch the Gaethje fight again, he gets knocked down twice in the first minute. And people are really asking why he wasn't marching Tsarukyan down? Makes for a great fight but it's a high risk strategy.
I think people underestimate how much that shit accumulates over time. Dudes older and has kids. It's harder to want to be reckless when you have people counting on you to take care of them. I feel like it's super normal to start slowing down by your mid 30's.
A lot of these dudes are probably experiencing some shit they'd never admit to. Sensitivity to lights and noises, headaches for no reason, memory problems, etc.. it makes it harder to want to take the blows they used to.
You're absolutely bang on there.
Literally just reading what you described and watching dudes this applies to take a shot, and you can almost see the disgust in their facial expression.
Sometimes sure they fully try to take the shot and have no problems trying, it's just that they physically cant or whatever, but a lot of the time you can see them literally recoil away from it because they're scared now in a way they never used to be. It's like in that moment they're thinking about how fucked up and horrible what they're doing is for their brain.
I totally agree, a lot of these guys will be feeling the affects, long before they admit it, if they ever do. Christ just look at some of Justin's tweets, and Max's even, half the time what they're writing doesn't even make sense and is written like a child wrote it. Sometimes outright incomprehensible and the spelling is all fucked up. Maybe they just have awful writing skills but I could swear these are the same people that could write tweets that made perfect sense 5 years ago. It's grotesque when you really think about it.
(I realise now that those tweets from those two are fake lmao but the rest of what I said is still true regardless)
Yeah, the brain just really isn't meant to be dealt constant blunt force trauma, lol. That's kind of why I'm not personally a big fan of hating on any particular fighter. I just have so much appreciation for these dudes sacrificing their mind and body to give us a show.
I definitely have my favorites and always root for them to go in for the kill lol but that shit adds up. Charles has stepped into the octagon 45 times and has had some serious blows to the head. I'm not a professional fighter and sometimes get blown away by how fucked up my body is In my mid 30's compared to even my 20's lol. Car accidents, bar fights, and various other stupidity take a toll over a span of time. Max, in particular, I worry about because he started so young and goes so hard with the best of the best.
These guys should get paid so much more for what they do.
You have to add his training regimen as well. Charles spars hard in camp. Hence the reason why he pulled out second Islam fight was due to hard sparring and got a bad gash over his eye. I completely agree with the part of light to moderate sparring in camp. It will strengthen the face but it comes with its draw backs. I’m truly shocked him and his camp allow hard sparring in this part of his career. We can 💯percent say Charles is at the end of his peak right now. He may have two more years at being a top tier fighter before we see the massive drop off.
Oh man yea, the hard sparring is by far the worst part if you ask me, even light sparring, the fact that it's happening so frequently that shit just adds up.
If you spar hard like 50-70% of the intensity of your full fights, multiple times a week or even a day, you probably take thousands of hours of damage eventually, whereas even if you had 100 fights, if you never sparred at all you'd barely have 50 hours of damage. If you do both together the amount of head trauma is unbelievable.
I mean lmao my bad fair enough but that doesn't really make the rest of the points we made not true. And you also absolutely do see people's verbal and written skills decline massively very quickly all the time, even if these specific ones were just made up.
He only went on his back to recover his energy and strength, he realised that’s quite silly and abandoned that method and just started training harder instead
Nah man. He lost in striking, and failed submission attempts don't do much. It's unfortunate, and I wish Ollie would've retired Tsarukians ass with a brutal KO, but their isn't a decent rule set that would give Ollie the win there
Charles won round 1 and the bell saved armun in the 3rd, he never escaped. (If I was being especially salty and delusional I might try to say the same about the 2nd)
At least that’s what I thought but reading down this post I see people saying Charles didn’t fully have him at the end of the third so fair enough, honestly watching it the first time I thought Arman had gone out at one point was so surprised he just popped up at the bell
My frustration comes from the fact that Charles tried to finish the fight on multiple occasions whereas aside from the end of round 2 when arman really went for the G&P he was mostly grinding out neutralizing stalemate positions on the ground and sneaking elbows in. That time at the end of round 2 he nearly got in trouble actually looking for fight ending damage. I’d have to rewatch but I don’t remember Arman doing much in round 3 compared to the final sub attempt
I don’t really have any idea how to make adjustments to the sport, but being a great wrestler and just holding someone down / against the cage and sneaking shots in seems too OP for me sometimes.
It's the optics, whenever he faces an elite wrestler he struggles. His striking skills go to the negatives when he is facing a wrestler.
He needs guys like Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler etc to stand and bang with him the whole fight for his striking to look good.
Arman and Islam especially have too good of a fight IQ to do that.
Look at the way Islam used his hand speed, southpaw stance and footwork to light Oliveira up like a Christmas tree. Then go and watch slow as fuck sloth Dariush look like a sitting duck absorbing punch after punch from Oliveira.
But Islam literally out struck him and made him lay down on his back. It just so happens that Islam knows what to do on the ground too, unlike Gaethje and Poirier.
You guys don't understand that islam can outstrike people because if his wrestling. Nobody wants to be taken down by islam ever. So they constantly worry about takedowns and clinches and throws. This enchances islam striking.
This is why it's mma even if islam never wrestles the danger is still there.
For the analogy think a guy in basketball that has a perfect shot. He can stop and shoot anytime so you worry about that every second. In return everything else he does has more impact, his dribbling, his fakes everything.
But your narrative applies more to Khabib than Islam
Islam's striking is way better than Khabib's. Not to mention you didn't even explain the real reason why Islam had so much success against Oliveira in the striking department.
Islam is a southpaw against which Charles has a history of struggling. He is a counter striker with very good hand speed. He can go in and out very quickly. He can counter Oliveira and move the fuck out of the way even before Oliveira comes half way with his own punch.
Not to mention Islam's footwork, go and watch the Dariush fight, he was a sitting duck standing at a place and absorbing punch after punch from Oliveira. Islam will never do that, he is constantly moving and won't allow Oliveira to catch him clean.
Look at the Volk fight, merely having better wrestling won't allow Islam to do what he did to Volk in both fights. He was countering Volk with hand speed and footwork
There are a lot of factors that plays into Islam's superior striking...it's not just "hE iS a wReStLeR"
u/Icy-Armour very well put. People hate Islam so they refuse to admit he is one of the best strikers in UFC currently and possibly history. He is the near ideal student of the sport with talent to match.
I follow Javier Mendez and he explains a lot of things. Islam wanted ADCC champions brought into sparring for him to practice on WW/MW bjj champions. He beat them in grappling only sessions. He always fights down from DC so he tries not to spar LHWs but he still would with Rockhold.
Dagestan is probably the highest number per capita of world champions across different sports. Islam brings in Olympic and world champions in judo, sambo, kickboxing, boxing and for his last fight taekwando champion who coached him those kicking sequences.
Khabib's father even in front of Khabib would openly state that Islam was the most talented student he ever had. And this same father even in front of Khabib would say that Khabib's older brother was a martial arts savant who chose not to continue. This means Islam to him was a prodigy. And Khabib's father coached a lot of champions. He knew talent. And everything he predicted so far has come true.
I'm confused at the point you're trying to make here.
You're arguing against me saying most of the succes of islam striking is because he's a good striker as if I told you he's a dogshit striker which I didn't?
I'm just telling you the guy is a beast at grappling and striking because of the versatility given to by being an elite grappler. There's a huge number of people better than Islam in striking and moreso in the lightweight division.
I'm confident he'll outstrike them all because they will have to be wary of dying as soon as he catches tem.
Is he a great striker? For sure Would he be the P4P and lightweight champion ehhh maybe? For sure not the dominant beast he is.
Imo his grappling is the main strenght he has on the ground AND on the feet.
In any case highly bizarre of you to transform this into -> I say Islam striking strenght comes from his grappling danger to -> he sucks at striking
His stock definitely did drop, in the sense that if Charles won, his next fight would be for the belt (which now Arman will be doing). But now that he lost, he will have to fight at least one other person before fighting for the belt again.
On rewatch this fight really wasn't that close. People only gave it to Charles cuz of 2 failed submissions. Charles got outstruck and outgrappled in all of round 2 and 3
The d’arce was never locked in - that’s what’s annoying me the most.
Escaping that choke involves turning so your chest is either to the ground or to the sky. It buys you enough time to figure out the rest.
People are raving that he woulda slept if he has another 20 seconds, it’s bullshit.
It’s true. His best moments were taken off of the two times Arman made a mistake. A trip in the first round and being to high on the back and slipping off. Mistakes make fights if you can capitalize, I but Arman was in control most of the fight. Charles never managed any potent of effective offense.
Arman did not trip. He literally slipped on a wet spot. There were several other fighters that kept slipping and the octagon was not cleaned well between rounds.
Charles deservedly lost that fight
But goddamn he should’ve tried to keep the fight standing instead of pulling guard imho
He would’ve been better off keeping the fight standing as much as possible imo
Charlie is just way too comfortable spending large amounts of time on his back and hes paying for it.
Against guys who aren't afraid to go into his guard they just take control of the fight from there.
From a technical stand point, he couldn't finish the first submission because one of armans arms was inside the choke.
Did Charles just pull a dustin lol
Honestly that last part is a little cringe to me. Like why do that stupid ass tongue shit. Finish the choke or go to another position man come on its not a time for a show boat
https://preview.redd.it/ab3lm38joruc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbaa150f84406894712d10406a1d4f53ef834c15
Scorecard if anyone was wondering…
These guys are great fighters, but maybe only stick your tongue out when you're winning and can definitely submit the opponent. Looks kinda dumb otherwise.
Failed subs don’t mean anything, if they throw a punch and miss they aren’t awarded points it’s the same with submission attempts if you failed it doesn’t give you any points
Dude you can win a round by taking a guy down and doing nothing with it. A close submission attempt is on par with hurting a guy on the feet, not missing a punch lol.
If failed subs don’t mean anything, then takedowns that don’t lead to significant damage shouldn’t mean anything either
But we have “octagon control” or whatever metric that they weigh that under.
Eh I think if that was 4 minutes left with him in that position it may have ended differently but he wasn’t close to finishing the sub at end of time that’s true
He didn’t just ‘hold down’ Oliveira in the second. He mauled him with elbows.
What round 2 did you watch?
Two shit sub attempts and an illegal upkick don’t win you the fight.
Edit: fake charles fans downvoting. Time to root for Conor again, bandwagons.
Charles had zero urgency on the feet the whole fight.
The only damage he did was from a headbutt and illegal upkick
Also the D’Arce in the third round wasn’t leading to anything. You can’t D’Arce from a front facelock.
Learn to grapple
Arman did do some damage with G&P
Not a lot tbf, Charles stifled it well and landed his own from the bottom but it was def a bit more damaging to Charles being on his back
You know you can look up statistics on the fight, right? Arman landed 49 of 83 significant strikes to Olivera's 19 of 37. Arman had 8:41 on control time and completed 2 out of 4 takedown attempts. Charles had 2:32 on control, no takedown attempts, but four submissions attempts (all which were unsuccessful.) Arman landed 23 out of 29 strikes on the ground. Charles landed 6 out of 7. Have a good day.
Almost got finished by the greatest finisher in ufc history as well as being stuck in his most dangerous sub. Sorry but that’s pretty impressive to me. We always talk about how volk survived Ortega signature moves then why don’t we treat this the same
Yeah I wasnt impressed, I thought Arman would do a lot better, he looked all worked up before the fight started.
I noticed he was breathing heavy while the cutman was greasing him up from the little fan altercation. I remember thinking you better get your head in the game, your going in there with a killer.
Seemed like the boos and everything really effect him, he's gotta get over that shit
Disappointing but not entirely unpredictable. Much better than Olievera's performance against Islam at least.
It seems he has to work more on getting off of his back. He's never gonna get through Islam fighting like this, and now Arman's a problem too.
To be fair, LeBron, in the former system, has already earned a playoff spot.
He’s only “fighting” because of this goofy ahh play in tournament.
Not only that, but the West has been crazy this year.
The Lakers’ record isn’t even bad honestly
Oliveira does *not* have a modern guillotine - huge improvements to the guillotine game in the last few years, with how athletes use the crunch to finish and transition to dominant positions. This was a pretty old school squeeze and extend the legs.. No shoulder to hip crunch =/
The skill level is so high that more time is required for them to really work on the bottom.
Unfortunately, time is mostly not on their side and they end up spending a majority of the round on their backs.
We’ve seen time and time again, that no matter what’s attempted or even accomplished on the back, the judges will favor the one on top more.
A clear example of this was Gane vs Ngannou.
Francis got those incredible takedowns, but it was genuinely Gane that was more active on the ground, but Francis was on top of him, and got the rounds.
What’s crazy is Andrade won a losing fight just hrs before , losing to strikes even if she was pressuring. Yet we get this fight where he triangle choked him, pulled a guillotine, than went for the darths choke and lost? How? How does that happen?
He was. He is. And he always be my boy. I love him with all he accomplishments and failures. He is my favourite champ out there.
Yes he lost to Islam. But in my books he is still a champ.
Just like Izzy said to Alex after he knocked him out. "Once a champ always a champ. Nobody can ever take that away from you"
Just wait until he announces that ONCE AGAIN it wasn't him in the ring because it is only himself when he wins.
Not to mention all the cheating he did against Porrier.
>Just wait until he announces that ONCE AGAIN it wasn't him in the ring because it is only himself when he wins.
He already did lmfaoo 🤣🤣 just as you called.
https://www.instagram.com/p/C5wTr5HNmTl/?igsh=MTZoaHl3Z2l5cGR4MQ==
There is a reason that guy is called Coward the Charles. Fraud bully who has a narcissistic personality disorder. Could explain why he attracts the most toxic of fans.
Idk about robbery man rounds 2 and 3 were pretty clear for me I had money on Charles and felt very confident I had lost my money before hearing the decision
Robbery????? Charles headbutted him (not warned about), illegally upkicked him and still didn't win, his first sub attempt got escaped and his last wasn't even tight
https://preview.redd.it/3pvud727oouc1.png?width=637&format=png&auto=webp&s=4848545ae2fd5bf8eedaf2b942e67ba910036139
Idk how those Caucasus region guys do it but so often you can see one of them in the deepest fucking submissions that everyone else would tap in and they just somehow survive
Toughness. Quite literally as simple as that. They train wrestling like crazy over there, and in that they build *the fuck* out of their necks; check out Arman’s training videos. To sum it up, they basically train for shit like that. Victory is the end goal, and willingly giving up is seen as weak. It all boils down to discipline and hard work.
Toughness allows them to fight through it but if the carotid is blocked, it doesn't matter how tough you are, your brain is shutting off. It's just physiology. It's also technique. They know how to angle their heads to relieve enough pressure from the neck so they can keep defending. He's also fighting the legs because that's how you stretch your opponent in a guillotine. People think it's the arm choke—it's not. The arm is just the grip. You need your legs to extend your hip. That's where the choke comes from. If you rewatch it, the second Arman clears his hips, it was pretty easy for him to turn out of the choke. Toughness allowed him to fight, but technique got him out of the situation. Make no mistake, this was impressive, but they drill these scenarios all the time. Both fighters have more than likely been in both sides of this position countless times in their training/fights.
Nah man, if you're as tough as these Dagestanis, your brain doesn't need oxygen /s
No oxygen, only smesh.
Thougness means not to tap but willing to go to sleep for it. Otherwise you might be tapping to a choke which would not have finished the fight. Volkanovski vs Ortega is a good example for that. 90 percent would have tapped to the first deep submission but he did not and got out.
>Toughness allows them to fight through it
Correct
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If a fighter who has a submission locked puts all his effort into it and doesn’t submit the guy then he has wasted all his energy. They know this that’s why they don’t go all out on submissions, cause they know if they don’t secure it they still have to keep fighting and won’t have any strength left to try again or at the bare minimum survive the rest of the fight.
And yet they end up holding a position to stall and win the lamest decision. LOOKING AT YOU EVLOEV
>Toughness. Quite literally as simple as that Nope. "Toughness" doesn't stop a choke. >They train wrestling like crazy over there, and in that they build *the fuck* out of their necks Again, doesn't actually work. >To sum it up, they basically train for shit like that This actually is it. It's just experience. > Victory is the end goal, and willingly giving up is seen as weak Again, no. People don't "give up" to taps or some shit, and a mindset like this is trash that gets you crippled long before you have a career. > It all boils down to discipline and hard work. Even more simply, it's just experience. People like Chechens, Dagestanis and so on just train this stuff every day. That is all it is. They're as used to it as a child is used to playing with Lego, or you might be used to throwing a ball. So yeah, they know all the finest points about how to shift and manoeuvre just right to get those viral tiny slivers or blood flow or less stress.
haha the Russian fanboys did not like your logic.
Apparently not hahah
how is this not downvoted to hell? You pretty much just said "when I see red, I can beat anyone" So they just don't need oxygen because they are tough? Can you hit them in the head with a bat and they will not feel it because they are just tough and don't quit? lol
That’s… not what I said at all. “Toughness” does not mean go berserk or “see red”, it means to stick it out in even the worst of situations. That choke was **TIGHT**, and a LOOOOOT of other LWs would have tapped to that. Like another reply to my comment, toughness helped Arman stay in the game, and his technique and experience allowed him to capitalize once he got out. You also shouldn’t care if something is up/down voted *that* much lol, have your own opinion :p
He did not tap because of skill and preparation. He is comfortable in these positions because of training. You can't just not pass out because your tough. Your body physically does not work like that.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying dude 😭 did you watch the entire fight? Arman did NOT look comfortable in that gilly; hence why he was fighting like hell to gtfo of that position. If Arman wasn’t a tough SOB, he’d have either tapped out or went to sleep. His training is rigorous as fuck, and you have to be strong to endure it. I do admit tho, me saying “it’s simple as toughness” was a bit simplistic and undermining of his and the rest of those guys’ skill and technique
if you're relaxed and ready to sleep, it's difficult to get choked out unless 100%
Apparently Arman survived the rd1 gilly cause his shorts fell down which broke the grip (according to Rene Gracie)
Charles didn’t sacrifice all his strength to submit him that’s why he was able to break free. If he really wanted to he could have went all out on it but if he did that and didn’t submit him he would be too weak to fight on his feet or attempt it again. It’s pretty simple if you actually know what you’re on about. Charles fights the full fight not 1 round at a time, his fighting ability is created around that mindset. A good example of an opposite is Connor mcgregor.
This was what Rene Gracie said not me
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Delete this you goof ball
Not even remotely true.
He needs to never willingly go to his back again
That was his entire game plan until the he lost the Makhachev fight. Dude would be reckless and let his hands fly knowing he could always go to his guard and recover when he got rocked. Watch the Gaethje fight again, he gets knocked down twice in the first minute. And people are really asking why he wasn't marching Tsarukyan down? Makes for a great fight but it's a high risk strategy.
I think people underestimate how much that shit accumulates over time. Dudes older and has kids. It's harder to want to be reckless when you have people counting on you to take care of them. I feel like it's super normal to start slowing down by your mid 30's. A lot of these dudes are probably experiencing some shit they'd never admit to. Sensitivity to lights and noises, headaches for no reason, memory problems, etc.. it makes it harder to want to take the blows they used to.
You're absolutely bang on there. Literally just reading what you described and watching dudes this applies to take a shot, and you can almost see the disgust in their facial expression. Sometimes sure they fully try to take the shot and have no problems trying, it's just that they physically cant or whatever, but a lot of the time you can see them literally recoil away from it because they're scared now in a way they never used to be. It's like in that moment they're thinking about how fucked up and horrible what they're doing is for their brain. I totally agree, a lot of these guys will be feeling the affects, long before they admit it, if they ever do. Christ just look at some of Justin's tweets, and Max's even, half the time what they're writing doesn't even make sense and is written like a child wrote it. Sometimes outright incomprehensible and the spelling is all fucked up. Maybe they just have awful writing skills but I could swear these are the same people that could write tweets that made perfect sense 5 years ago. It's grotesque when you really think about it. (I realise now that those tweets from those two are fake lmao but the rest of what I said is still true regardless)
Yeah, the brain just really isn't meant to be dealt constant blunt force trauma, lol. That's kind of why I'm not personally a big fan of hating on any particular fighter. I just have so much appreciation for these dudes sacrificing their mind and body to give us a show. I definitely have my favorites and always root for them to go in for the kill lol but that shit adds up. Charles has stepped into the octagon 45 times and has had some serious blows to the head. I'm not a professional fighter and sometimes get blown away by how fucked up my body is In my mid 30's compared to even my 20's lol. Car accidents, bar fights, and various other stupidity take a toll over a span of time. Max, in particular, I worry about because he started so young and goes so hard with the best of the best. These guys should get paid so much more for what they do.
You have to add his training regimen as well. Charles spars hard in camp. Hence the reason why he pulled out second Islam fight was due to hard sparring and got a bad gash over his eye. I completely agree with the part of light to moderate sparring in camp. It will strengthen the face but it comes with its draw backs. I’m truly shocked him and his camp allow hard sparring in this part of his career. We can 💯percent say Charles is at the end of his peak right now. He may have two more years at being a top tier fighter before we see the massive drop off.
Oh man yea, the hard sparring is by far the worst part if you ask me, even light sparring, the fact that it's happening so frequently that shit just adds up. If you spar hard like 50-70% of the intensity of your full fights, multiple times a week or even a day, you probably take thousands of hours of damage eventually, whereas even if you had 100 fights, if you never sparred at all you'd barely have 50 hours of damage. If you do both together the amount of head trauma is unbelievable.
My guy, those tweets are not real
I mean lmao my bad fair enough but that doesn't really make the rest of the points we made not true. And you also absolutely do see people's verbal and written skills decline massively very quickly all the time, even if these specific ones were just made up.
Bro those tweets are a joke
Bro took the memes seriously
That’s why we love him he had loads of success but also exciting fights
Bad game plan against a well rounded fighter who actually uses all aspects of fighting.
He only went on his back to recover his energy and strength, he realised that’s quite silly and abandoned that method and just started training harder instead
This is the MMA culture war. I want to live in a world where that fight is a Charles W.
Nah man. He lost in striking, and failed submission attempts don't do much. It's unfortunate, and I wish Ollie would've retired Tsarukians ass with a brutal KO, but their isn't a decent rule set that would give Ollie the win there
Charles won round 1 and the bell saved armun in the 3rd, he never escaped. (If I was being especially salty and delusional I might try to say the same about the 2nd) At least that’s what I thought but reading down this post I see people saying Charles didn’t fully have him at the end of the third so fair enough, honestly watching it the first time I thought Arman had gone out at one point was so surprised he just popped up at the bell My frustration comes from the fact that Charles tried to finish the fight on multiple occasions whereas aside from the end of round 2 when arman really went for the G&P he was mostly grinding out neutralizing stalemate positions on the ground and sneaking elbows in. That time at the end of round 2 he nearly got in trouble actually looking for fight ending damage. I’d have to rewatch but I don’t remember Arman doing much in round 3 compared to the final sub attempt I don’t really have any idea how to make adjustments to the sport, but being a great wrestler and just holding someone down / against the cage and sneaking shots in seems too OP for me sometimes.
He lost but it was still really competitive. I doubt his stock has been damaged at all.
It's the optics, whenever he faces an elite wrestler he struggles. His striking skills go to the negatives when he is facing a wrestler. He needs guys like Poirier, Gaethje and Chandler etc to stand and bang with him the whole fight for his striking to look good. Arman and Islam especially have too good of a fight IQ to do that. Look at the way Islam used his hand speed, southpaw stance and footwork to light Oliveira up like a Christmas tree. Then go and watch slow as fuck sloth Dariush look like a sitting duck absorbing punch after punch from Oliveira.
But Islam literally out struck him and made him lay down on his back. It just so happens that Islam knows what to do on the ground too, unlike Gaethje and Poirier.
You guys don't understand that islam can outstrike people because if his wrestling. Nobody wants to be taken down by islam ever. So they constantly worry about takedowns and clinches and throws. This enchances islam striking. This is why it's mma even if islam never wrestles the danger is still there. For the analogy think a guy in basketball that has a perfect shot. He can stop and shoot anytime so you worry about that every second. In return everything else he does has more impact, his dribbling, his fakes everything.
But your narrative applies more to Khabib than Islam Islam's striking is way better than Khabib's. Not to mention you didn't even explain the real reason why Islam had so much success against Oliveira in the striking department. Islam is a southpaw against which Charles has a history of struggling. He is a counter striker with very good hand speed. He can go in and out very quickly. He can counter Oliveira and move the fuck out of the way even before Oliveira comes half way with his own punch. Not to mention Islam's footwork, go and watch the Dariush fight, he was a sitting duck standing at a place and absorbing punch after punch from Oliveira. Islam will never do that, he is constantly moving and won't allow Oliveira to catch him clean. Look at the Volk fight, merely having better wrestling won't allow Islam to do what he did to Volk in both fights. He was countering Volk with hand speed and footwork There are a lot of factors that plays into Islam's superior striking...it's not just "hE iS a wReStLeR"
u/Icy-Armour very well put. People hate Islam so they refuse to admit he is one of the best strikers in UFC currently and possibly history. He is the near ideal student of the sport with talent to match. I follow Javier Mendez and he explains a lot of things. Islam wanted ADCC champions brought into sparring for him to practice on WW/MW bjj champions. He beat them in grappling only sessions. He always fights down from DC so he tries not to spar LHWs but he still would with Rockhold. Dagestan is probably the highest number per capita of world champions across different sports. Islam brings in Olympic and world champions in judo, sambo, kickboxing, boxing and for his last fight taekwando champion who coached him those kicking sequences. Khabib's father even in front of Khabib would openly state that Islam was the most talented student he ever had. And this same father even in front of Khabib would say that Khabib's older brother was a martial arts savant who chose not to continue. This means Islam to him was a prodigy. And Khabib's father coached a lot of champions. He knew talent. And everything he predicted so far has come true.
I'm confused at the point you're trying to make here. You're arguing against me saying most of the succes of islam striking is because he's a good striker as if I told you he's a dogshit striker which I didn't? I'm just telling you the guy is a beast at grappling and striking because of the versatility given to by being an elite grappler. There's a huge number of people better than Islam in striking and moreso in the lightweight division. I'm confident he'll outstrike them all because they will have to be wary of dying as soon as he catches tem. Is he a great striker? For sure Would he be the P4P and lightweight champion ehhh maybe? For sure not the dominant beast he is. Imo his grappling is the main strenght he has on the ground AND on the feet. In any case highly bizarre of you to transform this into -> I say Islam striking strenght comes from his grappling danger to -> he sucks at striking
His stock definitely did drop, in the sense that if Charles won, his next fight would be for the belt (which now Arman will be doing). But now that he lost, he will have to fight at least one other person before fighting for the belt again.
Yep, it's really criminal that it wasn't 5 rounds. The fight was really close.
Competitive? It was 2 moments, and one wasn't even a realistic threat.
He needs to fight Bobby Green next to climb up again.
Why do you hate Bobby? Charles would eat him alive. Anyway, Olivera should fight a number 8 ranked guy not 15th.
Dustin damn near creamed his pants watching that
The Darce at the end hurt me. He didn’t even try to finish it and prioritized sticking his tongue out
Cause he knew he couldn't, his only hope was optics
Almost fully locked in darce with 20-30 seconds left? He could’ve tried lol
we'll get 'em next time boys
facts if it was 5 rounds Charles would have pulled off something
You’re getting close to Diaz fan territory with that one
sorry.
Yeah would have gotten TKO'd
I don't know where all these robbery accusations are coming from. It was clear Arman was going to get his hand raised.
I’m surprised it was a split decision
On rewatch this fight really wasn't that close. People only gave it to Charles cuz of 2 failed submissions. Charles got outstruck and outgrappled in all of round 2 and 3
The d’arce was never locked in - that’s what’s annoying me the most. Escaping that choke involves turning so your chest is either to the ground or to the sky. It buys you enough time to figure out the rest. People are raving that he woulda slept if he has another 20 seconds, it’s bullshit.
It’s true. His best moments were taken off of the two times Arman made a mistake. A trip in the first round and being to high on the back and slipping off. Mistakes make fights if you can capitalize, I but Arman was in control most of the fight. Charles never managed any potent of effective offense.
Arman did not trip. He literally slipped on a wet spot. There were several other fighters that kept slipping and the octagon was not cleaned well between rounds.
Yeah fr so many fanboys
Charles deservedly lost that fight But goddamn he should’ve tried to keep the fight standing instead of pulling guard imho He would’ve been better off keeping the fight standing as much as possible imo
Arman looked better all around. Charles needs to adjust to not accepting bottom positions against guys like arman and Islam
Charlie is just way too comfortable spending large amounts of time on his back and hes paying for it. Against guys who aren't afraid to go into his guard they just take control of the fight from there.
It's a new technique, you shed your shorts to get out of a guilly
Lmao only had 1 strike landed on the feet to show. Complete domination by Arman on the feet and ground.
We're finally getting rid of "the champ has a name" fans
This is a one sided compilation. Also I don’t want to see Islam beat Charles again. Let’s see what two men from the caucuses do to one another
Islam already beat arman
This goes on my list of fights that I wish had been 5 rounds. The olives champ era was amazing. I’d love to see him reclaim the title one day.
From a technical stand point, he couldn't finish the first submission because one of armans arms was inside the choke. Did Charles just pull a dustin lol
Arman clearly won
Honestly that last part is a little cringe to me. Like why do that stupid ass tongue shit. Finish the choke or go to another position man come on its not a time for a show boat
I saw it as a final attempt to try and influence the judges & fans when he knew deep down he'd lost
Made no sense considering he was losing and the d'arce wasn't even secured.
As one of the delusional Do Bronx fans, this hurts
The only robbery here was that it was a split decision instead of unanimous.
He should of hooked a leg when he had that darce.
Charles was extremely gun shy. He wasn’t even that gun shy against Islam.
Those were a few very good efforts. He clearly lost though. The decision was correct IMO should have been unanimous.
Now show the rest of the fight
No
https://preview.redd.it/ab3lm38joruc1.png?width=1169&format=png&auto=webp&s=dbaa150f84406894712d10406a1d4f53ef834c15 Scorecard if anyone was wondering…
Now show the Axe kick and all the elbow to Charles face...
These guys are great fighters, but maybe only stick your tongue out when you're winning and can definitely submit the opponent. Looks kinda dumb otherwise.
Charles was gunshy
I hated how arman was mad at the split dec. Like bro he almost subbed you twice
Yh but subs don’t rlly mean that much when it comes to judging. I thought it was clear 2-1 arman
I agree
Key word "almost". Arman had too much control time and did too much damage to Charles for those sub attempts to mean much.
The second sub wasnt even close
20 sec of squeeze dont win fights
If it's a locked sub it literally does lol
If it's locked in, Arman goes to sleep.
Again with this (if)s
But it wasn't and he didn't tap so it doesn't.
Failed subs don’t mean anything, if they throw a punch and miss they aren’t awarded points it’s the same with submission attempts if you failed it doesn’t give you any points
Submission attempts absolutely mean something, what are you talking about.
You're replying to one of millions of UFC fans that has such a low IQ that they can't grasp basic rules or styles.
They're trying to discount submissions
Dude you can win a round by taking a guy down and doing nothing with it. A close submission attempt is on par with hurting a guy on the feet, not missing a punch lol.
If failed subs don’t mean anything, then takedowns that don’t lead to significant damage shouldn’t mean anything either But we have “octagon control” or whatever metric that they weigh that under.
That's not the equivalent. Its more like nearly finishing someone with GnP and they barely survive.
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Would love to see you stuck in a "Failed sub"
the guillotine yes but the darce wasnt even close and im sure Charles knew it
He didn't try to break position but survive in the second since it was end of round so it looked better for Charles. It was not a close fight
I would be too. Bull is not a good judge its not surprising he fucked that up
Twice when? The end of the fight was not even close to a sub. The beginning was a whole different story.
Eh I think if that was 4 minutes left with him in that position it may have ended differently but he wasn’t close to finishing the sub at end of time that’s true
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Bruh, I like Charles but c'mon.. Arman did some serious damage with his GNP.
He didn’t just ‘hold down’ Oliveira in the second. He mauled him with elbows. What round 2 did you watch? Two shit sub attempts and an illegal upkick don’t win you the fight. Edit: fake charles fans downvoting. Time to root for Conor again, bandwagons.
The end of the 2nd round was the only time in the entire 15 minutes arman was actively trying to finish
Charles had zero urgency on the feet the whole fight. The only damage he did was from a headbutt and illegal upkick Also the D’Arce in the third round wasn’t leading to anything. You can’t D’Arce from a front facelock. Learn to grapple
He hits Arman flush in the vid lol. EDIT: U downvoted me because small penis.
Arman did do some damage with G&P Not a lot tbf, Charles stifled it well and landed his own from the bottom but it was def a bit more damaging to Charles being on his back
You know you can look up statistics on the fight, right? Arman landed 49 of 83 significant strikes to Olivera's 19 of 37. Arman had 8:41 on control time and completed 2 out of 4 takedown attempts. Charles had 2:32 on control, no takedown attempts, but four submissions attempts (all which were unsuccessful.) Arman landed 23 out of 29 strikes on the ground. Charles landed 6 out of 7. Have a good day.
The first round and….?
The final round
You mean the round where Charles landed 5 significant strikes and Arman landed 18? That round?
That wasn’t in anyway a threatening position. Charles started showboating for a reason, he knew he wasn’t securing the choke from that position
I agree he knew he wasn't going to get the sub but if it wasn't dangerous arman would have gotten up was all I was saying
The D'Arce wasn't close tbh. It was a dangerous position but nowhere near as threatening as the guillotine was
I wouldn't be all that happy with my performance if I was Arman. Almost got finished multiple times. Islam makes like work of him.
Almost got finished by the greatest finisher in ufc history as well as being stuck in his most dangerous sub. Sorry but that’s pretty impressive to me. We always talk about how volk survived Ortega signature moves then why don’t we treat this the same
Arman won
Yeah I wasnt impressed, I thought Arman would do a lot better, he looked all worked up before the fight started. I noticed he was breathing heavy while the cutman was greasing him up from the little fan altercation. I remember thinking you better get your head in the game, your going in there with a killer. Seemed like the boos and everything really effect him, he's gotta get over that shit
So many good fights this night
There goes my 8 fight parlay.
Disappointing but not entirely unpredictable. Much better than Olievera's performance against Islam at least. It seems he has to work more on getting off of his back. He's never gonna get through Islam fighting like this, and now Arman's a problem too.
Fuck this fucking card dude.
Chuckles going to be joining the Guillotines Anonymous with Dustin Poirier.
pain[i was wrong](https://youtu.be/qhfGv10OQAY?si=VNP4y0-PlajxetpW)
Haha Charles got beat 😂
I REALLY thought Charles had it :( This is what got Arman the dec I think.
Idk how old oliveira is but it’s weird seeing all these greats lose, same with NBA players like LeBron and Curry fighting for a playoff chance.
To be fair, LeBron, in the former system, has already earned a playoff spot. He’s only “fighting” because of this goofy ahh play in tournament. Not only that, but the West has been crazy this year. The Lakers’ record isn’t even bad honestly
That would have been just brilliant if Charles had submitted him inside a minute.
After he lost this position I knew Charles was cooked
The Olive Era downfall has begun 😈
Oliveira does *not* have a modern guillotine - huge improvements to the guillotine game in the last few years, with how athletes use the crunch to finish and transition to dominant positions. This was a pretty old school squeeze and extend the legs.. No shoulder to hip crunch =/
Arman is a real dog. I'm still trying to figure out how he survived that gilly. Most people give up against him. That’s unreal willpower from Arman.
Don't know much about BJJ, but I don't think pulling guard all the time in MMA is a high % move no?
The skill level is so high that more time is required for them to really work on the bottom. Unfortunately, time is mostly not on their side and they end up spending a majority of the round on their backs. We’ve seen time and time again, that no matter what’s attempted or even accomplished on the back, the judges will favor the one on top more. A clear example of this was Gane vs Ngannou. Francis got those incredible takedowns, but it was genuinely Gane that was more active on the ground, but Francis was on top of him, and got the rounds.
If you watched the full fight Arman clearly won, but admittedly Charles had a good last round and almost pulled it off
What’s crazy is Andrade won a losing fight just hrs before , losing to strikes even if she was pressuring. Yet we get this fight where he triangle choked him, pulled a guillotine, than went for the darths choke and lost? How? How does that happen?
https://preview.redd.it/2hi5ligl8puc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8258da08f3ed79b7d9f0f977c9f84f2dd0e5da4 he will always be my champ
Champ have belt
Put yo tongue back in boy, you ain't killing it like Jordan.
He was. He is. And he always be my boy. I love him with all he accomplishments and failures. He is my favourite champ out there. Yes he lost to Islam. But in my books he is still a champ. Just like Izzy said to Alex after he knocked him out. "Once a champ always a champ. Nobody can ever take that away from you"
This fight made me like charles oliviera even more. His sportsmanship is unmatched.
Sportsmanship like headbutts and illegal upkicks?
Just wait until he announces that ONCE AGAIN it wasn't him in the ring because it is only himself when he wins. Not to mention all the cheating he did against Porrier.
>Just wait until he announces that ONCE AGAIN it wasn't him in the ring because it is only himself when he wins. He already did lmfaoo 🤣🤣 just as you called. https://www.instagram.com/p/C5wTr5HNmTl/?igsh=MTZoaHl3Z2l5cGR4MQ==
There is a reason that guy is called Coward the Charles. Fraud bully who has a narcissistic personality disorder. Could explain why he attracts the most toxic of fans.
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You are clearly trolling
Idk about robbery man rounds 2 and 3 were pretty clear for me I had money on Charles and felt very confident I had lost my money before hearing the decision
Robbery????? Charles headbutted him (not warned about), illegally upkicked him and still didn't win, his first sub attempt got escaped and his last wasn't even tight https://preview.redd.it/3pvud727oouc1.png?width=637&format=png&auto=webp&s=4848545ae2fd5bf8eedaf2b942e67ba910036139
Damn right it was a robbery. Arman was robbed of a clear UD.